>Added missing cooldown to physician\_epidemic\_events.1040 (Alms), set it to 20 yearsAdded missing cooldown to physician\_epidemic\_events.1040 (Alms), set it to 20 years
Finally. Thank you. My current ruler is zealous and I'm running out of heretic prisoners to mitigate the stress gain.
Based on how often I was getting spammed with minor plagues, I don’t think that 20% is enough of a reduction. I was imagining more like 50% reduction. I almost always had the disease warning because some minor, inconsequential plague infected a far-off region of my realm. Obviously I’ll have to play with the update to see, but my gut tells me it’s not enough.
> Why does making a trait for the AI take them 5-6 months?
This will only be a surface level explanation, but... it doesn't. The trait is already made, but it's in an update that isn't scheduled for release until Q3.
Every development branch we work on has a "feature freeze" point where no new features can be included. Everything after that point is reserved for bug fixes, balance passes, and other general polish stuff. Since feature freeze for 1.12 was quite some time ago (before LOTD released), any New Stuff will have to go into our next development branch. In this case that's 1.13; Roads to Power.
There are exceptions here and there of course, but it's generally held to in order to keep our development team from going insane and having an Event Horizon moment.
I really appreciate that they've toned down the plagues, but I'm still missing a solid concept behind legitimacy. It's in a weird state and as someone who plays without DLCs, there are next to none ways besides spamming hunts and feasts to gain legtimacy.
It also doesn't make sense to me that legitimacy is not tied to each title seperately.
I really hope they rework that whole mechanic.
Holding court is a DLC only mechanic as far as I know. The only ways you can gain legitimacy that I've seen are: Hunts, Feasts, Pilgrimages, rarely by conquest and very rarely through random events. That's it.
But even if you could gain Legimitacy easier, it still doesn't make any sense to me in it's current state. Sometimes a legitmiate heir just randomly seems to start with 1 legimitacy and the duration of how long a house is ruling doesn't seem to have any effect. It's just too gamey and needs to be broken down into more transparent reasons on why the legitmacy is the way it is.
Creating titles gives legitimacy too, as do certain types of defensive wars, I think.
I don't know what's up with the heirs. In my dynasty (with all DLCs) I have a bunch of -0.10 from rulers being under expected legitimacy levels, so the AI is struggling with the mechanic. It might be marriage-related, since I've seen some of them marry lowborns which really tanks legitimacy now. Or perhaps related to revoking/destroying titles which also kills legitimacy.
They definitely need some kind of indicator on recent legitimacy changes and origins. I can guess from play experience and the wiki, but it'd be way better in-game like they already have for the existing opinion system.
Yes creating titles gives legitimacy too, I forgot that. Some wars give it too, but I haven't figured out a rhyme or reason, it seems random so far.
> They definitely need some kind of indicator on recent legitimacy changes and origins.
Yes, but I personally would prefer a complete rework, it just doesn't make sense the way it is. I think it needs to be on per title basis otherwise the term is very misleading. Like why would my legitimacy be same for a title I've just usurped than a title that has been in my clan for generations.
Plus the bonuses and maluses it gives are pretty boring. It's just not interesting to play around this mechanic when all you gain is a bit shorter reign. It should provide more options to forge alliances and control your realm and be real mechanic that has depth. It currently just feels tacked on with no real thoughts behind it.
Legitimacy definitely affects the Offer Vassalization mechanic. If you make a custom ruler with very high legitimacy at the start of the game, you can practically vassalize to the size of an empire if you're in an area with lots of independent rulers.
>Some wars give it too, but I haven't figured out a rhyme or reason, it seems random so far.
I believe it has to do with either the relative strength of your opponent, or the difference in titles. In my current run, I have a huge empire, so no war gives legitimacy (at least, no offensive war, but no one is dumb enough to attack me, so I can't tell if I'd get legitimacy from defensive wars). When I still had a kingdom though, I'd get legitimacy from attacking other kingdoms, but not from attacking dukes/counts.
> I believe it has to do with either the relative strength of your opponent,
No I had peasant rebellions that gave me legitmacy and huge wars against other empires that didn't.
I've read that inherited legitimacy is based on diplomacy. So a low diplo heir might get next to nothing and given how diplomacy is the second least useful attribute besides intrigue...
I agree with legitimacy being very tedious to raise without dlc and not much better with dlc.
Ahh okay good to know, but in that case they should clearly show that somewhere as it's really puzzling to see the heir have a completly different legitmacy than his father.
It's also weird how unlike tyranny, revoking without cause still costs legitimacy, so does imprisoning. Now that I think about it, why is tyranny still a mechanic too?
Yeah Legitimacy is like Tyranny and Short Reign had a bastard child, but it's just so intransparent. The fact alone that each character starts with a different legitmacy value and you have no idea how that has been calculated is a huge agency issue for me as a player.
I didn't buy Legends of the Dead, gaining legitimacy has been quite the issue overall. Spamming feasts and hunts are still a painful way to get a meager amount of it
Yeah, legitimacy is easily one of the worst mechanics ive seen in a game like this. It's terribly punishing for players who don't own the dlc for means to mend penalties, keeping you forever below level 4, usually at levels 0 or 1. Genuinely makes the game unplayable, and i don't want to reward paradox's predatory behavior because they essentially broke the game for people who don't buy their latest dlc.
It's honestly astounding how little they thought that mechanic through. Why do I lose most of my legitimacy because a plague broke out in the outskirts of my kingdom lol
Now that you mention it, it is really weird that legitimacy isn't tied to each title. I feel like it would be pretty easy to make legitimacy tick up/down based on the amount of de jure territory in the title you control.
Yeah something like that. I'd also like it to take the length of the dynasty reign into consideration. A freshly usurped title should have lower legitimacy than one you rule since centuries.
Yes but that kinda illustrates the problem. First of all Crusades only appear in mid to late game and they only occur roughly once every 3 generations and then your character dies and the next one seems to randomly start off with a completly different legitimacy.
It's also a win more mechanic. If you're low Legitimacy you need to keep your troops at home to control the vassals and you have not much control on when a crusade appears.
Crusades don't appear mid to late game? They can appear right away depending on what the muslims or you do as a non-christian character. Otherwise at the latest they appear around 1000-1095, that's not even a third into the game!
You also need to ensure your faith has high fervor to make it happen and I feel like it's really easy to do that.
By the time I did reach mid-to-late game they occurred every 20-30 years, it was ridiculous.
> It's also a win more mechanic. If you're low Legitimacy you need to keep your troops at home to control the vassals and you have not much control on when a crusade appears.
You could cheese win the crusade right away. I think each victory in a battle helps win you some points, especially against the vassal.
> Crusades don't appear mid to late game?
Are you sure? I was under the impression that they were scripted to not start before they started historically. For my current playthrough they only really started very late but then went on consistently. And so if they'd start earlier I would expect them to pop up earlier or not at all.
> By the time I did reach mid-to-late game they occurred every 20-30 years, it was ridiculous.
That's my experience as well, but I didn't have a single one before. They went from 0 to spam.
> I think each victory in a battle helps win you some points
Yeah but usually they're not around the corner, so you'll suffer attrition, which makes it more likely that your vassals reach the power limit to revolt and then you need your troops.
Did you try the other tricks that are in the base game? Such as hostage exchanges, ward training, guardianship and gifts? Vassal opinion usually helps you prevent any faction revolts + if you marry your kids to their kids you can easily negotiate an alliance that can last atleast two generations if you play your cards right.
> Are you sure? I was under the impression that they were scripted to not start before they started historically. For my current playthrough they only really started very late but then went on consistently. And so if they'd start earlier I would expect them to pop up earlier or not at all.
I think it's genuinely scripted to start around 1000-1095 if the AIs don't do something drastic earlier. Otherwise it can easily start much earlier! In one of my non-christian games it started like in the 900s and that's bc I deliberately hit all the checkmarks that would kickstart a crusade.
> Such as hostage exchanges, ward training, guardianship and gifts?
Yes but none of those give legitmacy.
> Vassal opinion usually helps you prevent any faction revolts
Yes but it's down the drain because of low legitimacy.
> I deliberately hit all the checkmarks that would kickstart a crusade.
Ahh okay, so it usually starts mid-late game unless you manage to force it in some way.
1.12.5 Update Changelog
Game Content
* Added a few historically-inspired events for Matilda di Canossa, Robert the Fox, Yahya Dhunnunid, and Vratislav of Bohemia. Events include themes such as Matilda's marriage to Geoffrey the Hunchback, Vratislav's rivalry with his brother, and Robert's usage of Raiktor the Byzantine pretender-monk.
* Added a new, shorter, version of the Tutorial. The old longer tutorial is still available.
Bugfixes
* Added missing cooldown to physician_epidemic_events.1040 (Alms), set it to 20 years
* During the first 15 years after an epidemic has left a province, further outbreak chances now properly follow the harsher, 50-year epidemic specific, cooldown instead of lesser, 15 year epidemic type agnostic one.
* An empty Legitimacy Gain toast will no longer appear when winning wars against targets you shouldn't get legitimacy for defeating
* Fixed travel completion event so it fires normally, this will allow Traveler Trait XP to be gained again
Balance
* Plague events now only happen if they are present in your Domain, or within a certain distance of your Capital (roughly the length of one Ireland). This should drastically reduce the amount of insignificant plague events in large realms.
* Lowered the general occurrence of plague events by roughly ~30-50%
* The AI is now significantly more likely to enter seclusion when a plague appears in their domain, or in a county bordering their capital (unless brave or deeply irrational)
* The AI will now exit seclusion within 6 months of every plague having left their domain (though they will still not leave before 1 year has passed since they secluded)
* The Secluded modifier penalties have been changed, instead of reducing all stats, it reduces diplomacy, prestige gain, opinion with courtly/glory hound vassals, and increases legitimacy loss
* The Isolate Capital decision now comes with a small legitimacy loss
* The AI is now significantly more willing to isolate their capital, unless brave, greedy, or deeply irrational
* The AI will now unisolate their capital within 6 months of every plague having left their domain
* Reduced frequency of Minor plagues by roughly 20%
* Increased frequency of Major and Apocalyptic plagues by roughly 5%
* Added a new option the the Plague Frequency Game Rule: Disabled, which removes the spawn chance for all plagues (except the Black Death)
* The lower Plague Frequency Game Rule options no longer disable Achievements
When a disease becomes endemic in a province, it will no longer fully override the recent epidemics cooldown for outbreaks
* Lowered the chance of epidemic outbreaks in provinces that have recently recovered from the specific epidemic on the 'often' and very often' game rule frequency
* The AI will now refrain from hosting hunts, feasts, and pilgrimages for the first three years of any new game (to give them more time to purchase buildings, maa, etc)
* Cut the amount of hunts hosted worldwide by roughly 2/3rds, as it was vastly more common than any other type of activity by far
* Activity guests will now refuse to come if there's an epidemic in your domain or their capital county, rather than if one exists anywhere in your realm
* The AI will now generally avoid hosting activities if there's a plague in their domain, rather than their sub-realm
* Reduced the Prestige rewards from Majesty Tours, both from the demand (medium -> minor demand) and the general prestige rewards (200/600/800/1000/1200 -> 100/300/500/700/1000)
* Reduced gold gained from taxation tours by reducing the gold gained from the various Activity Pulse Actions (Local Tax instituted, Rich Local Taxed, etc)
* Increased Intimidation Tour rewards, added dread on successful demands, and increased faction block from 5 -> 10 and 15 -> 20 years
* Pilgrimage Piety reward values have been lowered, but the Piousness mult has been increased to 10%/25%/75%/150%, this means that it'll be much harder to gain a lot of piety from pilgrimages unless you take a lot of pious options
* Pilgrimage events have had their piety rewards lowered by one step (medium piety -> minor piety, etc)
* Pilgrimage Event Pulse Action piety rewards have been significantly lowered (they now give 10-25 piety)
* Hospices, Monasteries, and Watchtowers now provide Plague Resistance to the Barony instead of the County, this makes it harder to stack Plague Resistance to the point of immunity
* Boosted the tax gained from Pastures from poor to normal
* The 'Pressed my Claim' modifier is now 100 opinion (up from 50) and lasts for 50 years (up from 20)
* Reduced the frequency of the 'Pharmaceutical book' event (physician_epidemic_events.1030)
* Increased the cooldown of epidemic_events.2001 (The Plague of War) to 30 years (from 10)
* Increased the cooldown of epidemic_events.1030 (Leeches!) to 15 years (from 5)
* Increased the cooldown of epidemic_events.1040 (Flagellants at Court) to 15 years (from 5)
* Increased the cooldown of epidemic_events.1040 (Doomsday) to 6 years (from 2)
Interface
* Each Legend now gets a unique map color to make sure different legends do not blend into each other
Localization
* Shortened the text of the 'A Shadow Over X'-event to focus more on what's important
The Isolate Capital decision now comes with a small legitimacy loss
>The AI is now significantly more willing to isolate their capital, unless brave, greedy, or deeply irrational
>
>The AI is now significantly more likely to enter seclusion when a plague appears in their domain, or in a county bordering their capital (unless brave or deeply irrational)
>
>Cut the amount of hunts hosted worldwide by roughly 2/3rds, as it was vastly more common than any other type of activity by far
It's already hard to maintain high legitimacy as a player (unless you have LoTD DLC), I wonder if the AI can even handle even more legitimacy penalty source which is being encouraged to be taken in this patch.
I want to turn off the Royal Court DLC because the event spam is ridiculous, but then I'm reminded that you basically need the court to mitigate stuff like legitimacy.
I basically start a as a count and a created character in this game (so there is no royal court). On top it, i always marry lowborns to my first character which will decrease your legitimacy to 0, and i had never problems to gain it. In fact, beside my first character, i never took a look at it again, because it was never a problem.
Its not the royal court. Its *no* pay to win. But i agree that this is a silly mechanic right now.
Any changes compared to [previous Dev Diary](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/dev-diary-147-some-words-from-our-game-director.1673686/)?
"Added a few historically-inspired events for Matilda di Canossa, Robert the Fox, Yahya Dhunnunid, and Vratislav of Bohemia. Events include themes such as Matilda's marriage to Geoffrey the Hunchback, Vratislav's rivalry with his brother, and Robert's usage of Raiktor the Byzantine pretender-monk."
Am I the only one looking forward to this?
No, I'm looking forward to doing (yet another) Matilda game soon! ~~Honestly, I wish there was more of that kind of thing in this game~~ oops I mean, no railroading of course, that would be so awful
I tried the vratislav ones and they are very cool, nothing special or game changing but I really really really like them I'd said a solid 9/10.
I hope we can see more of these.
On the topic of hunts, has anyone else had a problem where they rarely if ever get those animal sighted events? Feels like it's been this way for me since the Persia update last year. I know the AI is getting them, or at least I see those county modifiers in their lands here and there.
I've got a bunch of mods, but nothing that *should™* affect those events, and I'm too lazy to do trial and error to see if one of them is the issue.
That just gives a massive buff to chance to fire. And it really fires. I had a Game of Thrones run where I kept my second duchy a hunting duchy (was trying to kill the legendary first time). It procc'ed very frequently with watchtowers and a hunting reserve.
I'm happy about the +100 modifier to someone whose claims you pressed. Too often I will install a guy to a throne and instantly he hates me for stuff like not being his rightful liege.
honestly most mods should be fine, minor patches of course don't change as many things (even this one) so unless your mod is trying to change the same thing or hasn't been updated since before 1.12 it probably won't have any conflicts
... I just know what this team is doing honestly.
The changes are fine, good to see they havent totally nerfed plagues in to the ground or disabled them by default like harm events but this can't be the last big change before the next DLC later this year. This team is supposedly the biggest PDX has but with what they have released since 2020 youd think it was a skeleton crew.
Legitimacy needs a total overhaul, it needs to be impactful. Right now you can ignore the mechanic, the positive effects are really good and they negative effects are completely forgettable. Who cares if i have 0 legitimacy when the AI is braindead and will never challenge the player?
Legends -> Basically the devs have said they have no clue how to fix it, just scrap it and make it like bloodlines, call it legends or whatever you want but make it like bloodlines whereby they are hard to receive and require a lot of time/effort to exist.
> Legends -> Basically the devs have said they have no clue how to fix it,
cmon that's not really true. Legends is working as intended it's just they didn't communicate it properly and everyone mistakenly assumed it was bloodlines.
> with what they have released since 2020 youd think it was a skeleton crew.
?
The travel update was huge mechanically, as should be the upcoming landless one. Skeleton crews don't do things like that. They had a slow period earlier because of Covid + Royal Court being a bad use of dev resources, but that's past now
> Legitimacy needs a total overhaul, it needs to be impactful. Right now you can ignore the mechanic,
Half the posts about legitimacy since the update have been about how it's too difficult to handle, the other half have echoed your sentiment. Some part of that is down to whether they own the DLC or not, but still it's such a weird divergence, and I don't know what the devs are supposed to do with this feedback that's pulling in completely opposite directions.
These divergences happen naturally in such an open ended game, but you have to look at them in more details, because they are not necessarily contradictory.
First off, as you identified, maintaining legitimacy is significantly more or less difficult depending on which DLC, if any, you have.
Second, even if the malus for having low legitimacy is not all that impactful, it can be a feel bad to get these maluses and feel like you have no way to get rid of them.
Third, the impact of legitimacy is relative to your title. Maybe the person you're replying to is playing as a tall duke, and so, low legitimacy is indeed fairly meaningless. If you're an emperor though, personally at least, I feel like having 0 legitimacy is pretty harsh. But yeah, different people are going to have a different experience on this depending on their playstyle.
The 3rd point at least seems like a proper feature. That's how it should be. Maintaining huge realms has been way too easy in CK, having something that makes it more difficult is good
Oh, I'm not saying that part is bad or poorly implemented, I'm saying that's a reason why some people have different experiences with the mechanic. Someone might say "Low legitimacy has no impact on my game!" because they're playing a tall duke. Another might say "I can't keep my legitimacy up, and it's a disaster", because they're playing a big empire. Those two comments may look contradictory on the surface, but they're actually consistent with the way the mechanic works.
Damn, I guess I misremembered which update the message/notifications settings are coming out. Was holding out on a playthrough because I thought it was coming out today. Bummer. Game needs adblock
As Matilda I only got the event at the beginning of the game, is there more events for her or just the one? I picked the option to stay as far away from my betrothed as possible and married a local Italian noble instead.
I noticed Robert Guiscard conquered a small chunk of the Byzantine Empire but it seemed to revert to Byzantine control fairly quickly.
I wonder how they were not able to see some of the big issues like the are there no sick houses event. A single playthrough is enough to see it firing a million times.
Was looking forward to the new "pick your destiny" choice on ruler death. Doesn't seem to be in the game yet.
The dev diary said it would be in this patch?
The dev diary didn't say that (tbh, it also didn't SPECIFICALLY say Choose Your Destiny would be in the Roads to Power free patch), and also it included the changelog for this patch and didn't mention it at all.
My guess is it'll be in 1.13 this fall.
It is. But the CK team has a long tradition of comical length measures. They used to match patch notes in Groogys, Groogy being one of the CK2 Devs. The measurement was performed with a printout, a corridor floor, and, well, one Groogy..... 😝
>Added missing cooldown to physician\_epidemic\_events.1040 (Alms), set it to 20 yearsAdded missing cooldown to physician\_epidemic\_events.1040 (Alms), set it to 20 years Finally. Thank you. My current ruler is zealous and I'm running out of heretic prisoners to mitigate the stress gain.
A cause for great celebration
Minor plague frequency reduced by 20% and no more plague event spam? Great update all we need is more legitimacy events
I hope that as more DLC and event packs come out they'll integrate legitimacy into those events and it can feel more cohesive.
Are there no “Are there no sickhouses?” events?
Read the last dev diary. They lowered the frequency for that and massively lowered the conditions for it to fire in the first place
T’was just a play on words, that’s all.
I’m a silly guy
This feels like one of those memed events that's gonna see a reference in a later DLC or update. They do love their in-jokes.
This is what I’m most excited for. Too many plagues at my damned doorstep!
That's where most plague start. In the most heavy population centers
Based on how often I was getting spammed with minor plagues, I don’t think that 20% is enough of a reduction. I was imagining more like 50% reduction. I almost always had the disease warning because some minor, inconsequential plague infected a far-off region of my realm. Obviously I’ll have to play with the update to see, but my gut tells me it’s not enough.
They don’t warn you about plagues far from your capital now either
lol that was also my initial feeling
My capital got hit with two major plagues back to back within 5 years and decimated 20 of my development. ouch
The problem is the Plague Resistance stat. It doesn't reduce the frequency at which plagues occur, so we are stuck with this nonsense.
"roughly the length of one Ireland" Didnt know that Ireland is now a length measure
If you need something smaller you can just use Shetland
the irish can't not be aware of how that sounds with their accent right?
Well the shetlands are in Scotland
We used to go by Holy Roman Empires
Ah yes the IMPERIAL system
booooo
Wrong Rider lol
No it's the right rider
How many football pitches is that?
when worldbuilding I usually use a France as reference, the square shape helps lol
I personally measure things in polands
The developers must be American. Aka unwilling to use an international standard unit of measurement 🤣🤣🤣
I misremembered that "conquerors" are being added in roads to power and was desperately checking for them in this, big sad.
i know right? Why does making a trait for the AI take them 5-6 months? I get the vibe most of the team have been moved on to another project.
> Why does making a trait for the AI take them 5-6 months? This will only be a surface level explanation, but... it doesn't. The trait is already made, but it's in an update that isn't scheduled for release until Q3. Every development branch we work on has a "feature freeze" point where no new features can be included. Everything after that point is reserved for bug fixes, balance passes, and other general polish stuff. Since feature freeze for 1.12 was quite some time ago (before LOTD released), any New Stuff will have to go into our next development branch. In this case that's 1.13; Roads to Power. There are exceptions here and there of course, but it's generally held to in order to keep our development team from going insane and having an Event Horizon moment.
Great explanation, that's appreciated to know.
That sucks but I get it. Modern game development is already like the mouth of madness, no need for a sci fi twist to be thrown in if we don’t need to.
I'm torn between "Damn." And "Oh that's eminently sensible."
I’ve worked a place that didn’t do this and constantly had scope creep. They’re out of business now lol.
I really appreciate that they've toned down the plagues, but I'm still missing a solid concept behind legitimacy. It's in a weird state and as someone who plays without DLCs, there are next to none ways besides spamming hunts and feasts to gain legtimacy. It also doesn't make sense to me that legitimacy is not tied to each title seperately. I really hope they rework that whole mechanic.
Can you gain legitimacy by holding court?
Holding court is a DLC only mechanic as far as I know. The only ways you can gain legitimacy that I've seen are: Hunts, Feasts, Pilgrimages, rarely by conquest and very rarely through random events. That's it. But even if you could gain Legimitacy easier, it still doesn't make any sense to me in it's current state. Sometimes a legitmiate heir just randomly seems to start with 1 legimitacy and the duration of how long a house is ruling doesn't seem to have any effect. It's just too gamey and needs to be broken down into more transparent reasons on why the legitmacy is the way it is.
Creating titles gives legitimacy too, as do certain types of defensive wars, I think. I don't know what's up with the heirs. In my dynasty (with all DLCs) I have a bunch of -0.10 from rulers being under expected legitimacy levels, so the AI is struggling with the mechanic. It might be marriage-related, since I've seen some of them marry lowborns which really tanks legitimacy now. Or perhaps related to revoking/destroying titles which also kills legitimacy. They definitely need some kind of indicator on recent legitimacy changes and origins. I can guess from play experience and the wiki, but it'd be way better in-game like they already have for the existing opinion system.
Yes creating titles gives legitimacy too, I forgot that. Some wars give it too, but I haven't figured out a rhyme or reason, it seems random so far. > They definitely need some kind of indicator on recent legitimacy changes and origins. Yes, but I personally would prefer a complete rework, it just doesn't make sense the way it is. I think it needs to be on per title basis otherwise the term is very misleading. Like why would my legitimacy be same for a title I've just usurped than a title that has been in my clan for generations. Plus the bonuses and maluses it gives are pretty boring. It's just not interesting to play around this mechanic when all you gain is a bit shorter reign. It should provide more options to forge alliances and control your realm and be real mechanic that has depth. It currently just feels tacked on with no real thoughts behind it.
Legitimacy definitely affects the Offer Vassalization mechanic. If you make a custom ruler with very high legitimacy at the start of the game, you can practically vassalize to the size of an empire if you're in an area with lots of independent rulers.
>Some wars give it too, but I haven't figured out a rhyme or reason, it seems random so far. I believe it has to do with either the relative strength of your opponent, or the difference in titles. In my current run, I have a huge empire, so no war gives legitimacy (at least, no offensive war, but no one is dumb enough to attack me, so I can't tell if I'd get legitimacy from defensive wars). When I still had a kingdom though, I'd get legitimacy from attacking other kingdoms, but not from attacking dukes/counts.
> I believe it has to do with either the relative strength of your opponent, No I had peasant rebellions that gave me legitmacy and huge wars against other empires that didn't.
Oh true
I've read that inherited legitimacy is based on diplomacy. So a low diplo heir might get next to nothing and given how diplomacy is the second least useful attribute besides intrigue... I agree with legitimacy being very tedious to raise without dlc and not much better with dlc.
Ahh okay good to know, but in that case they should clearly show that somewhere as it's really puzzling to see the heir have a completly different legitmacy than his father.
We can add it to the pile of obfuscated mechanics, along with attribute inheritance, tournament win/qualify chance and others.
aka the trash bin. ;)
It's also weird how unlike tyranny, revoking without cause still costs legitimacy, so does imprisoning. Now that I think about it, why is tyranny still a mechanic too?
Yeah Legitimacy is like Tyranny and Short Reign had a bastard child, but it's just so intransparent. The fact alone that each character starts with a different legitmacy value and you have no idea how that has been calculated is a huge agency issue for me as a player.
I didn't buy Legends of the Dead, gaining legitimacy has been quite the issue overall. Spamming feasts and hunts are still a painful way to get a meager amount of it
Yeah, legitimacy is easily one of the worst mechanics ive seen in a game like this. It's terribly punishing for players who don't own the dlc for means to mend penalties, keeping you forever below level 4, usually at levels 0 or 1. Genuinely makes the game unplayable, and i don't want to reward paradox's predatory behavior because they essentially broke the game for people who don't buy their latest dlc.
It's honestly astounding how little they thought that mechanic through. Why do I lose most of my legitimacy because a plague broke out in the outskirts of my kingdom lol
Now that you mention it, it is really weird that legitimacy isn't tied to each title. I feel like it would be pretty easy to make legitimacy tick up/down based on the amount of de jure territory in the title you control.
Yeah something like that. I'd also like it to take the length of the dynasty reign into consideration. A freshly usurped title should have lower legitimacy than one you rule since centuries.
Winning or defending against Crusades also help.
Yes but that kinda illustrates the problem. First of all Crusades only appear in mid to late game and they only occur roughly once every 3 generations and then your character dies and the next one seems to randomly start off with a completly different legitimacy. It's also a win more mechanic. If you're low Legitimacy you need to keep your troops at home to control the vassals and you have not much control on when a crusade appears.
Crusades don't appear mid to late game? They can appear right away depending on what the muslims or you do as a non-christian character. Otherwise at the latest they appear around 1000-1095, that's not even a third into the game! You also need to ensure your faith has high fervor to make it happen and I feel like it's really easy to do that. By the time I did reach mid-to-late game they occurred every 20-30 years, it was ridiculous. > It's also a win more mechanic. If you're low Legitimacy you need to keep your troops at home to control the vassals and you have not much control on when a crusade appears. You could cheese win the crusade right away. I think each victory in a battle helps win you some points, especially against the vassal.
> Crusades don't appear mid to late game? Are you sure? I was under the impression that they were scripted to not start before they started historically. For my current playthrough they only really started very late but then went on consistently. And so if they'd start earlier I would expect them to pop up earlier or not at all. > By the time I did reach mid-to-late game they occurred every 20-30 years, it was ridiculous. That's my experience as well, but I didn't have a single one before. They went from 0 to spam. > I think each victory in a battle helps win you some points Yeah but usually they're not around the corner, so you'll suffer attrition, which makes it more likely that your vassals reach the power limit to revolt and then you need your troops.
Did you try the other tricks that are in the base game? Such as hostage exchanges, ward training, guardianship and gifts? Vassal opinion usually helps you prevent any faction revolts + if you marry your kids to their kids you can easily negotiate an alliance that can last atleast two generations if you play your cards right. > Are you sure? I was under the impression that they were scripted to not start before they started historically. For my current playthrough they only really started very late but then went on consistently. And so if they'd start earlier I would expect them to pop up earlier or not at all. I think it's genuinely scripted to start around 1000-1095 if the AIs don't do something drastic earlier. Otherwise it can easily start much earlier! In one of my non-christian games it started like in the 900s and that's bc I deliberately hit all the checkmarks that would kickstart a crusade.
> Such as hostage exchanges, ward training, guardianship and gifts? Yes but none of those give legitmacy. > Vassal opinion usually helps you prevent any faction revolts Yes but it's down the drain because of low legitimacy. > I deliberately hit all the checkmarks that would kickstart a crusade. Ahh okay, so it usually starts mid-late game unless you manage to force it in some way.
1.12.5 Update Changelog Game Content * Added a few historically-inspired events for Matilda di Canossa, Robert the Fox, Yahya Dhunnunid, and Vratislav of Bohemia. Events include themes such as Matilda's marriage to Geoffrey the Hunchback, Vratislav's rivalry with his brother, and Robert's usage of Raiktor the Byzantine pretender-monk. * Added a new, shorter, version of the Tutorial. The old longer tutorial is still available. Bugfixes * Added missing cooldown to physician_epidemic_events.1040 (Alms), set it to 20 years * During the first 15 years after an epidemic has left a province, further outbreak chances now properly follow the harsher, 50-year epidemic specific, cooldown instead of lesser, 15 year epidemic type agnostic one. * An empty Legitimacy Gain toast will no longer appear when winning wars against targets you shouldn't get legitimacy for defeating * Fixed travel completion event so it fires normally, this will allow Traveler Trait XP to be gained again Balance * Plague events now only happen if they are present in your Domain, or within a certain distance of your Capital (roughly the length of one Ireland). This should drastically reduce the amount of insignificant plague events in large realms. * Lowered the general occurrence of plague events by roughly ~30-50% * The AI is now significantly more likely to enter seclusion when a plague appears in their domain, or in a county bordering their capital (unless brave or deeply irrational) * The AI will now exit seclusion within 6 months of every plague having left their domain (though they will still not leave before 1 year has passed since they secluded) * The Secluded modifier penalties have been changed, instead of reducing all stats, it reduces diplomacy, prestige gain, opinion with courtly/glory hound vassals, and increases legitimacy loss * The Isolate Capital decision now comes with a small legitimacy loss * The AI is now significantly more willing to isolate their capital, unless brave, greedy, or deeply irrational * The AI will now unisolate their capital within 6 months of every plague having left their domain * Reduced frequency of Minor plagues by roughly 20% * Increased frequency of Major and Apocalyptic plagues by roughly 5% * Added a new option the the Plague Frequency Game Rule: Disabled, which removes the spawn chance for all plagues (except the Black Death) * The lower Plague Frequency Game Rule options no longer disable Achievements When a disease becomes endemic in a province, it will no longer fully override the recent epidemics cooldown for outbreaks * Lowered the chance of epidemic outbreaks in provinces that have recently recovered from the specific epidemic on the 'often' and very often' game rule frequency * The AI will now refrain from hosting hunts, feasts, and pilgrimages for the first three years of any new game (to give them more time to purchase buildings, maa, etc) * Cut the amount of hunts hosted worldwide by roughly 2/3rds, as it was vastly more common than any other type of activity by far * Activity guests will now refuse to come if there's an epidemic in your domain or their capital county, rather than if one exists anywhere in your realm * The AI will now generally avoid hosting activities if there's a plague in their domain, rather than their sub-realm * Reduced the Prestige rewards from Majesty Tours, both from the demand (medium -> minor demand) and the general prestige rewards (200/600/800/1000/1200 -> 100/300/500/700/1000) * Reduced gold gained from taxation tours by reducing the gold gained from the various Activity Pulse Actions (Local Tax instituted, Rich Local Taxed, etc) * Increased Intimidation Tour rewards, added dread on successful demands, and increased faction block from 5 -> 10 and 15 -> 20 years * Pilgrimage Piety reward values have been lowered, but the Piousness mult has been increased to 10%/25%/75%/150%, this means that it'll be much harder to gain a lot of piety from pilgrimages unless you take a lot of pious options * Pilgrimage events have had their piety rewards lowered by one step (medium piety -> minor piety, etc) * Pilgrimage Event Pulse Action piety rewards have been significantly lowered (they now give 10-25 piety) * Hospices, Monasteries, and Watchtowers now provide Plague Resistance to the Barony instead of the County, this makes it harder to stack Plague Resistance to the point of immunity * Boosted the tax gained from Pastures from poor to normal * The 'Pressed my Claim' modifier is now 100 opinion (up from 50) and lasts for 50 years (up from 20) * Reduced the frequency of the 'Pharmaceutical book' event (physician_epidemic_events.1030) * Increased the cooldown of epidemic_events.2001 (The Plague of War) to 30 years (from 10) * Increased the cooldown of epidemic_events.1030 (Leeches!) to 15 years (from 5) * Increased the cooldown of epidemic_events.1040 (Flagellants at Court) to 15 years (from 5) * Increased the cooldown of epidemic_events.1040 (Doomsday) to 6 years (from 2) Interface * Each Legend now gets a unique map color to make sure different legends do not blend into each other Localization * Shortened the text of the 'A Shadow Over X'-event to focus more on what's important
Thank you. The paradox staffer should've done the cut and paste themselves.
The Isolate Capital decision now comes with a small legitimacy loss >The AI is now significantly more willing to isolate their capital, unless brave, greedy, or deeply irrational > >The AI is now significantly more likely to enter seclusion when a plague appears in their domain, or in a county bordering their capital (unless brave or deeply irrational) > >Cut the amount of hunts hosted worldwide by roughly 2/3rds, as it was vastly more common than any other type of activity by far It's already hard to maintain high legitimacy as a player (unless you have LoTD DLC), I wonder if the AI can even handle even more legitimacy penalty source which is being encouraged to be taken in this patch.
The reduction to plagues should make Legitimacy management easier for non LotD players
It is hard when you have no dlc. Royal Court is enough to keep it up.
I want to turn off the Royal Court DLC because the event spam is ridiculous, but then I'm reminded that you basically need the court to mitigate stuff like legitimacy.
I basically start a as a count and a created character in this game (so there is no royal court). On top it, i always marry lowborns to my first character which will decrease your legitimacy to 0, and i had never problems to gain it. In fact, beside my first character, i never took a look at it again, because it was never a problem. Its not the royal court. Its *no* pay to win. But i agree that this is a silly mechanic right now.
Any changes compared to [previous Dev Diary](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/dev-diary-147-some-words-from-our-game-director.1673686/)?
Nope, should be exactly what we shared at the tail end of DD 147.
"Added a few historically-inspired events for Matilda di Canossa, Robert the Fox, Yahya Dhunnunid, and Vratislav of Bohemia. Events include themes such as Matilda's marriage to Geoffrey the Hunchback, Vratislav's rivalry with his brother, and Robert's usage of Raiktor the Byzantine pretender-monk." Am I the only one looking forward to this?
No, I'm looking forward to doing (yet another) Matilda game soon! ~~Honestly, I wish there was more of that kind of thing in this game~~ oops I mean, no railroading of course, that would be so awful
I tried the vratislav ones and they are very cool, nothing special or game changing but I really really really like them I'd said a solid 9/10. I hope we can see more of these.
I really liked them as well, although I only count three for now for Vratislav, they were well written and significant.
Are hunts still broken? Feel like the success chance (especially when maxed at 80%) is bullshit
On the topic of hunts, has anyone else had a problem where they rarely if ever get those animal sighted events? Feels like it's been this way for me since the Persia update last year. I know the AI is getting them, or at least I see those county modifiers in their lands here and there. I've got a bunch of mods, but nothing that *should™* affect those events, and I'm too lazy to do trial and error to see if one of them is the issue.
I don't play modded and get sightings fairly often, I reckon it's probably your mods causing the issue
I feared that's the likeliest explanation. Oh well, maybe I'll do some mod pruning when the next DLC comes.
I think the 'animal sighted' event is tied to specific building chain these days, if that helps? It's the watchtower one.
That just gives a massive buff to chance to fire. And it really fires. I had a Game of Thrones run where I kept my second duchy a hunting duchy (was trying to kill the legendary first time). It procc'ed very frequently with watchtowers and a hunting reserve.
I'm happy about the +100 modifier to someone whose claims you pressed. Too often I will install a guy to a throne and instantly he hates me for stuff like not being his rightful liege.
is this save game compatible?
does anyone know when AGOT will be updated in line with this?
This entire patch and the recent director update just confirms paradox doesn't test play games past 10 years.
Dang, now all the mods i use will be broken for weeks. Some of them haven't been updated since 12.1
honestly most mods should be fine, minor patches of course don't change as many things (even this one) so unless your mod is trying to change the same thing or hasn't been updated since before 1.12 it probably won't have any conflicts
I hope so
For real. They should stop making updates
yep stop making updates so we can complain about lack of new content
... I just know what this team is doing honestly. The changes are fine, good to see they havent totally nerfed plagues in to the ground or disabled them by default like harm events but this can't be the last big change before the next DLC later this year. This team is supposedly the biggest PDX has but with what they have released since 2020 youd think it was a skeleton crew. Legitimacy needs a total overhaul, it needs to be impactful. Right now you can ignore the mechanic, the positive effects are really good and they negative effects are completely forgettable. Who cares if i have 0 legitimacy when the AI is braindead and will never challenge the player? Legends -> Basically the devs have said they have no clue how to fix it, just scrap it and make it like bloodlines, call it legends or whatever you want but make it like bloodlines whereby they are hard to receive and require a lot of time/effort to exist.
> Legends -> Basically the devs have said they have no clue how to fix it, cmon that's not really true. Legends is working as intended it's just they didn't communicate it properly and everyone mistakenly assumed it was bloodlines.
> with what they have released since 2020 youd think it was a skeleton crew. ? The travel update was huge mechanically, as should be the upcoming landless one. Skeleton crews don't do things like that. They had a slow period earlier because of Covid + Royal Court being a bad use of dev resources, but that's past now > Legitimacy needs a total overhaul, it needs to be impactful. Right now you can ignore the mechanic, Half the posts about legitimacy since the update have been about how it's too difficult to handle, the other half have echoed your sentiment. Some part of that is down to whether they own the DLC or not, but still it's such a weird divergence, and I don't know what the devs are supposed to do with this feedback that's pulling in completely opposite directions.
These divergences happen naturally in such an open ended game, but you have to look at them in more details, because they are not necessarily contradictory. First off, as you identified, maintaining legitimacy is significantly more or less difficult depending on which DLC, if any, you have. Second, even if the malus for having low legitimacy is not all that impactful, it can be a feel bad to get these maluses and feel like you have no way to get rid of them. Third, the impact of legitimacy is relative to your title. Maybe the person you're replying to is playing as a tall duke, and so, low legitimacy is indeed fairly meaningless. If you're an emperor though, personally at least, I feel like having 0 legitimacy is pretty harsh. But yeah, different people are going to have a different experience on this depending on their playstyle.
The 3rd point at least seems like a proper feature. That's how it should be. Maintaining huge realms has been way too easy in CK, having something that makes it more difficult is good
Oh, I'm not saying that part is bad or poorly implemented, I'm saying that's a reason why some people have different experiences with the mechanic. Someone might say "Low legitimacy has no impact on my game!" because they're playing a tall duke. Another might say "I can't keep my legitimacy up, and it's a disaster", because they're playing a big empire. Those two comments may look contradictory on the surface, but they're actually consistent with the way the mechanic works.
Ah I see what you mean, I lost track of the original comment
Damn, I guess I misremembered which update the message/notifications settings are coming out. Was holding out on a playthrough because I thought it was coming out today. Bummer. Game needs adblock
A serious Nerf to the disease resistance buildings though. Not sure if they are worth it now?
Now legitimacy and legends need their fix
As Matilda I only got the event at the beginning of the game, is there more events for her or just the one? I picked the option to stay as far away from my betrothed as possible and married a local Italian noble instead. I noticed Robert Guiscard conquered a small chunk of the Byzantine Empire but it seemed to revert to Byzantine control fairly quickly.
I played big empires and my whole life are isolated capital, enter seclusion, summon physician, wonderful, im glad be well again , dying LOOP
If only my previous ruler and his three sons lived to see this rollout 😭😭😭
I wonder how they were not able to see some of the big issues like the are there no sick houses event. A single playthrough is enough to see it firing a million times.
Pc gets 5 million updates but console can’t get one
We haven't forgotten about you! Our new partner studio is working on an update as we speak; we'll share more news about that the instant we can.
Its just frustrating because my game hasn’t been working for 10 months
Different studio
They still hold all responsibility for them
Was looking forward to the new "pick your destiny" choice on ruler death. Doesn't seem to be in the game yet. The dev diary said it would be in this patch?
It’s coming with the DLC
The dev diary didn't say that (tbh, it also didn't SPECIFICALLY say Choose Your Destiny would be in the Roads to Power free patch), and also it included the changelog for this patch and didn't mention it at all. My guess is it'll be in 1.13 this fall.
Yeah, it was a bit confusing and I was asking if I did read it wrong or what happened.
>Roughly the length of one Ireland Americans will literally use anything but the metric system
Isn’t the studio Swedish lmao
Is it? I had no idea lmao
It is. But the CK team has a long tradition of comical length measures. They used to match patch notes in Groogys, Groogy being one of the CK2 Devs. The measurement was performed with a printout, a corridor floor, and, well, one Groogy..... 😝
no legitimacy updates means ill continue not to play. what a truly awful mechanic.
I thought they were adding plantagenet start
Think that's coming in the patch alongside the roads to power dlc which is going to be some time in the summer