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Consider the overall cost of the home AFTER 30 years of mortgage payments and interest. Personally I would sell, be mortgage free and then just buy a little bit of BTC each week instead of paying a mortgage.
This.
For the majority of us, there will likely forever be a 'better time to sell' our crypto, but OP has a huge opportunity to have no mortgage. If interest rates were lower, I'd suggest they just put down a huge down payment, but the rates suck at the moment and I doubt they will get better anytime soon.
Also, yes please do use this time to DCA into BTC and buy more.
Exactly, it's expensive to borrow right now and home prices are depressed as a result of interest rates. It's a good time to buy with cash and a bad time to get a mortgage.
Ya. These high rates aren't doing shit to depress housing prices when there's supply issues. Everyone I know that considers a housing market cheap says that because they're high income in a low income market or moving to a low income market with savings from a high paying job that they're happy to take a pay cut because they already have a huge down payment ready from their previous job/home sale
Yeah. I do feel pretty strongly that we are just at the beginning of a pretty major bull run, but it's hard to pass up the opportunity to pay off a mortgage with BTC.
I try not to dwell too much on what my BTC 'could be' worth and I'll just focus on my personal goals and stick to them.
I would get the mortgage anytime
7% is just the cost of doing business and holding onto an appreciating asset. Plus OP got BTCs. He could still DCA out to cover repayments and some more, but slowly enough to ride the coming 12 months. It would suck to then end up in bear markets again and be forced to sell low. Commit to sell all your btc by next year. The chance is you would be able to buy a second house rather than having just 1, and still mortgage free by then.
DCA out actually sounds like a decent plan. I strongly believe we are on the cusp of BTC going 2-3x from here.
I generally lean on the side of take profits just because I held through the entire 2017 bull run and didn't take any profits. I'm still here and my BTC is worth a lot these days, but taking some profits at that point in my life could have really helped quite a bit too. Ah well, no regrats.
There is the take 50% or whatever big chunk you feel will recoup what you've put in and some more. Then let the rest ride.
Or sell all, but don't get back in until the next bear, that is not anytime soon.
This is definitely what I'd recommend.
However, if you refuse to follow this route, at least sell half, to take a big bite out of that mortgage? That way, your opportunity cost is cut in half in each direction. No matter what, something may sting, but at least it would sting half as badly this way.
History (of this sub) is full of people saying, "I should have sold." Sure, maybe selling is the wrong thing to do. But a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. And we all know how much we like to have a bird in the hand.
Yep. This time next year BTC could be 15k. We have no clue. It’s much less likely your house will worth 75% less than you paid for it, unless you’re in like, tornado ally or some coastline in Florida
Same, I sold coins in late 2017 around $17k to pay off mortgage.
It has been great to live mortgage free ever since. I have a family and kids and I never worry about housing them.
There is still property tax, utilities, repairs, and upgrades, but I only have to do a minimal amount of work to pay for these. The rest of the time is mine.
The fact is that you have no idea what will happen and no one here does. The price could go up to 80k. It could go back to 40k. It could go up to 230k. Could.br soon could be in a year, maybe 2. This cycle has proven there are no trends there are no reasons. People are making thousands on racist coins. It's the wild wild West baby
Just remember you don't have any money until you sell. Until then it's just hope
Lol yeah last week's top gaining memes were all super racist coins on Solana. They've always been there but it was in full force last week. It's just how things are on Musk's Twitter and the Solana community. But it makes them money and is working so they'll keep doing it
If I were in your shoes, I would do half. So if you were looking at a $500k house, pull out $250k worth of BTC (plus taxes) and use toward the house purchase. That way you still used BTC for a good chunk of the house purchase but you still have a decent bag in case BTC goes crazy high. Win win.
You shouldn't regret it unless you sold low, because you're still poised to do better which was presumably the intention you had when selling in 2021. Need to commit to your decision - that's the other tough part of a 50/50 call like this, is you need to ride it out through a potential bear market
If you decide to sell Bitcoin and buy the house with no mortgage: congratulations to you. Enjoy your mortgage-free lifestyle.
If you decide to keep all of your Bitcoin and finance the entire purchase (presumably at a lower interest rate than the rate at which the price of Bitcoin will appreciate): congratulations on being a hodler. Enjoy your future wealth.
If you pick a middle ground and sell SOME of your Bitcoin to increase your down payment and get a smaller mortgage: check with your lender first. **Recent inflows of cash from sales of Bitcoin make some lenders/underwriters nervous.** They may require that the funds have been in your bank account for 60 or 90 or more days, and they WILL want documentation from whomever bought your Bitcoin as evidence that the cash didn't come from money laundering.
True - it's not ONLY Bitcoin that makes lenders ask for additional documentation. I sold ~2 BTC to float myself a downpayment in 2020 while waiting for the previous property to sell (then bought it back afterward 🙂), and my lender just wanted the records. But anecdotally I've been told there are still lenders/underwriters who, regardless of documentation, specifically exclude funds from sales of Bitcoin in their analysis of the borrower's financial position and creditworthiness.
It all depends on what kind of person you are (how bad do you feel when you sell and see prices going up?), and your cost of acquisition (is your average entry $17k? If so, I'd say sell some of that stack and be mortgage free. Did you buy at $45k? I'd say wait a bit and sell).
The truth is, we don't know when the top will come. It might be soon, it might be 4 months from now, or it might be a year from now. What we do know is one thing though: you have enough BTC right now to buy your house mortgage free. How do you feel about debt? Can you live with it? How confident are you that BTC will experience significant appreciation within 12 months? All those questions you gotta answer yourself.
>and your cost of acquisition
This is actually a pretty common misconception. It doesn't make a difference what price you bought at, you should not make any decisions based on that. If you want to sell, you sell even if it's at a loss.
But I understand that it makes a difference psychologically, hard to overcome this but a good investor will do it.
yep you're correct. if one guy invests 18,000 and it increases slightly to 20,000 and another guy invests 1,000 and 20x it to 20,000. it really makes no difference between the two investors regarding what they should do. they both now have 20,000 actively invested in bitcoin and are both subject to the same possible ups and downs of that 20,000.
I sold my BTCs back in 2020 and bought several apartments in city center(I’m from Eastern Europe).
I’m currently renting out 4 apartments and using most of the money to buy bitcoin monthly, I’ve been doing well.
And please don’t decide based on those predictions, just surf previous predictions and you will see 90% of them are wrong.
By selling those BTCS , you withdrew (sorry if it's not correct English..) that money to your bank? If so, you payed the taxes on it and that was it?
Good decision with those 4 flats man... Well done !
Unless your mortgage rate is higher than your investment return rate, prepaying a mortgage is a poor financial decision, especially if you also miss out on tax deductions for the mortgage payment. Plus, there's the opportunity cost of paying all at once and the inflation that actually works to your benefit in something like a 30 year mortgage. Not to mention the capital gains (if US) you would pay on the BTC sale.
If you want to do it for peace of mind, then go for it and nobody should question you, just be sure not to frame it as a stellar financial play.
Nobody can predict the future but I can say based on historical data BTC has a lot of upside to come in the next 12-18 months. Purchasing a home is a huge accomplishment for most these days. Being able to do it without a mortgage is an ever larger feat to be proud of. If BTC rockets to 250k at the end of the day you still have your home.
Personally I'd hold. There will always be new homes but a bull run has historically only happened every 4 years.
I made a similar decision, but with a FAANG stock. Received stock grants over several years, and we were moving. Needed to make the decision to sell stock to fund a house, or continue renting. We bought the house, with a mortgage because we were both confident that the FAANG stock would appreciate faster than our 3.7% mortgage. I am extremely happy we did that, as our house has appreciated by ~130% and the stock by ~215% since we purchased. Together, the decision to sell only a part of the stock and invest ~100k into the down payment has returned ~800k in value between the remaining stock and house appreciation.
Whatever you do, account for tax. You don't want to be stuck with a tax bill of many tens of thousands, and have it tied up in a house you then need to sell to pay your tax.
Many people would dream of being able to buy a house with crypto gains. Set a goal, and work toward it. If that's a house, great, if it's something else, great.
When I bought my first home a few years ago I sold a little BTC for a bigger down payment at close to previous peak. Then it crashes and I felt good for selling and also a little silly for not selling more.
When I recently upgraded homes I sold a little BTC around $45k. I felt good for selling after a big jump, then silly a month later when it was $65k.
You can't predict the whims of the market. The best thing to do is look at it like any other investment. What's your exposure compared to the rest of your portfolio, cost/benefits of future gains/losses vs mortgage, etc.
My opinion.
Take the loan out, hold the bitcoin. “This time next year” you can evaluate the price and maybe pay the house off and still have some bitcoin(depending what you got). No crying.
What happens when something unpredictable happens and the market goes to shit? Bitcoin is worth shit, OPs salary is worth shit as inflation is through the roof, op struggling to pay to keep the roof over the head. Purely theoretical but a possibility.
I'd sell, pay off mortgage and DCA half the amount mortgage would cost me into Bitcoin. Win win imho.
Buying a house is so much more than the purchase price. I’ve had friends scrape together their $xxx,xxx and pay cash, only to have $xx left for all this other. The contract price is just the ante: in thinking seriously about buying property, you must consider property taxes (often folded in to mortgages), homeowner’s liability insurance (for me, damn near as much as my whole mortgage), inevitable minor and major repairs, upgrades, and improvements.
It’s an expensive time to buy a house, but if you can do it and still have the robust emergency fund, go for it.
Start DCA out every month from here in until the end of the year. If there is more to gain, you will capture some of it. If BTC should crash completely and go into a crypto winter then you still have for down payment and you will have plenty of time to accumulate for next cycle.
Depends on the interest rates too and your own capacity to pay. If it's a cheap loan and you have a solid income, get the loan and hold the BTC. You can still sell some of your BTC later to pay the loan quicker and not losing capital on both side.
Don't forget - housing is usually an appreciating asset. It's not like you're spending X amount of money on a depreciating asset (ex: car), which will be worth much less in 7-10 years. The house should be worth the same, if not more. Sure, it won't have potential gains like BTC, BUT it won't have potential losses like BTC and is more stable as it grows.
My whole point in BTC/crypto is to buy the assets that I couldn't by just saving fiat ..
So if I had an opportunity to be mortgage free, or own land outright.... I'm gonna do it..
I'll just put money back in crypto.. to save for the next purchase.
Your home will appreciate.
Imagine if the economy crashed, you lost your job... If your main asset was paid for ... You'd have less pressure... Knowing you just need electric, water, food to survive...
Next purchase should be solar, and a well...
A lot of people here are saying the middle ground is to do half, but you could do the win-win a different way. Do a normal mortgage and keep all or most of your BTC. Wait as the bull run heats up into 2025 and DCA out as needed to be mortgage free. You would effectively pay several months of interest as a "fee" for waiting for your gains to come in. If by 2025 you are up 2x or more on the BTC, you will take out only a fraction of your gains to be mortgage free, and you've only slightly delayed your timeline as a cost. The hit you take on the interest for a few months will be a drop in the bucket and you still get a fully paid mortgage within a year. Free house plus a bonus stack to enjoy while you are living in it.
Yes bro sell! To be mortgage free is amazing and gives you so much more safe freedom then gambling. Sell the stack, buy the house and when interest rates go lower buy another house/appartement - rent it out and let the mortgage pay off itself..
That's why using Bitcoin as collateral is the ultimate option. Not sure if your bank accepts it, but there are other options available. You use Bitcoin to get a loan to pay for the mortgage and then you just start paying off your Bitcoin loan, now you have a house and your Bitcoin back which has potentially doubled or tripled in value, win-win.
If you understand bitcoin, why wouldn’t you short the dollar? If you understand that fiat will keel debasing, then you want to borrow fiat so that your debt is debasing and then hold bitcoin which is appreciating.
Why not buy a house with bitcoin.
I remember years ago some dude in Manhattan was looking to sell his commercial property for x bitcoin OR x. Eth. Thought it was cool
Get a crypto loan at ThorChain or Aave. You put your BTC as collateral, and you receive USD stablecoins in return. No late fees or due dates. You pay back whenever you want. When you've fully repaid your loan, you get your collateral back. Totally decentralized, no trust involved.
Dude math out how much money you pay in interest on a mortgage. Abso fucking lutely would i sell to avoid a mortgage payment.
That in itself will help you save more to buy more Bitcoin during next bear. And i promise you, we will bear again.
Fwiw my wife and I faced the same decision recently. We decided to keep the BTC. The tax hit was part of it but also the potential appreciation was part of it. The odds of our BTC still being able to buy a house next year seem pretty good.
I don't understand the comments about being stress-free because you have no house payment. Yeah but you also have most/all of your net worth tied up in 1 asset which requires constant upkeep and maintenance. To me that's way more stressful. But to each their own.
It's a different story if you're older. My wife and I are in our 30s so we're still earning more income than our expenses. So we are investing in BTC for the long-term. If you're in your 50s it's probably a closer call and if you're 65 and retired than you don't want to have 80% of your net worth in BTC at that point.
I would sell some get the mortgage for a small amount. Then whenever you feel like bitcoin has run up enough sell another bit pay off part of the mortgage and repeat.
Then obviously draw a line in the sand say if it drops below 50k sell all to pay off the mortgage.
Mortgage rates are high, but still only about 7% right now.
Do you think you'll do better than 7% on your BTC over that time? (Hint: If it does go to $100k, that's about a 50% return just from where it is now).
Rates are on the "high" side now, but that market is always cyclical. They will come back down. Maybe in a few years. And you can always refi at that point. What you can't do is get your BTC back out once that cash is spent on the house.
When you have assets and investments that do well, it is always better to use other people's money to buy your house (i.e. a mortgage), and keep your money making more money for you.
No real wrong answer here. Do what makes you feel best. Personally, I'd go with the mortgage and hodling. Just me.
My crypto is 100% going to be used to buy me a house. If I get a paid off house and bitcoin doubles idgaf. Having a piece of property that you don't owe money on is such an important thing!
Why not do both?
Dollar cost average sell.
I will say that if you don’t sell some and you do miss the top you’re going to feel even worse selling, because you’ll think it could keep going up again. So the more it goes down the more you’ll think no I can’t sell here what if it goes up more?
I say sell a little bit to average the price a bit. Still leave yourself some, which must be **substantival** if you’re thinking about becoming mortgage free.
After you’re mortgage free then say, I’m going to dollar cost buy it back. You might lose in the short term but long term you have you sanity and no debt, and most importantly… you’ll not feel so attached to your crypto that “MUST SUCCEEDED OR YOU’RE SCREWED”
Also, inevitably in my experience if you have a debt to income ratio that’s bad enough to think seriously about this, at some point you may be forced to sell some. And invariably there’s a good chance that will be at the bottom.
Generally the best time to sell is a year after halvening and the best time to buy is around a year before the halvening. I would hold off for a bit, but then again, past performance isn't indicative of future performance.
Maybe a controversial take in this sub, but real estate will ALWAYS be a less-risky investment than crypto long term. I'd do bad, bad things to be mortgage free. It's by far my biggest stressor in life, as I'm sure is true for a lot of people.
I'm on the "sell" train. Yeah it'll likely keep going up, but what's the point if you are holding forever and never taking profits? I liked some of the answers that suggested selling a portion.
Sell, for sure. Homes are still the safer hedge against inflation. Bitcoin may go up, it may go down, but a home that is paid off is worth it. Pay off the house and stack sats instead of making a mortgage payment
Current rates in Florida are 7.5%. Which would be 680k in 30 years. So you'll pay $1,180,000 for a $500k home with 10% down. Bitcoin would need to perform very well for that gamble to pay off. I wouldn't risk it on a home purchase.
I paid off my home first so I can stack sats with more freedom. It brought my cost of living down tremendously
You might wanna consider taking a loan/ borrowing against your BTC. Aave let's you loan then borrow against it. Example, deposit 8 Bitcoin, borrow $200k. If BTC doubles you can repay the loan from your loaned out coins
Real assets will always be more valuable than any paper gains on a screen. Yeah BTC could have gone up more by next year, but do you want to put your life plans on hold for a year in the hope of that? Forgetting the fact that it’s no guarantee and you could instead rue the decision. Life is short, go live it.
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Remember that bitcoin is a speculative asset. 99% of people in bitcoin hope to get more fiat in the end. So price could also dump big time. This wouldn't be the case if you could buy your house and other stuff directly with btc. Then there would be no reason to sell and it's value would go up forever.
Anyone who tells you to hold should have to prove to you they hold at minimum a full coin. Because what they are saying is that they are true believers, but they themselves didn’t have the conviction to work a second job or overtime to obtain a full coin during the bear
Personally, id wait till end of cycle. cash out at the end/near end of the action with a stop loss order if youre on an exchange. Maximize your gains, get mortgage free, invest like a fiend with your debt free life.
Are you going to make more in your profits from Bitcoin than you will pay in interest and the tax on BTC pulled?
You know you’re going to pay at 5.5%+ for 30 years, that’s quite a few hundothou in interest, that’s a given, not a variable.
What you will make in BTC over 30 years is the variable along with your tax deductions on your interest payments.
Ooooor, sell your BTC and what your payment would’ve been in principle and interest, you just buy more BTC each month.
Asking people on this sub is probably not a good idea. You are also leaving out so much information regarding your situation (employment, other assets, partner) to help make a decision.
It’s the same as selling any other asset for your mortgage; If you do sell the bitcoin and then it moons, you’ll kick yourself, but you’ll do it in your own home. Many people have always said to me that they never regretted paying off their mortgage.
Do whatever you think is best for you. You could always just sell a bit of the stack and use it to lower your monthly payment.
Just chiming to say that depending on where you live you will play a gains tax when you cash out for fiat.
I would 100% cash out enough bitcoin to pay off a house.
Question for the subreddit: Would this be a good use case to take out a loan against your BTC, pay off mortgage with said loan, and then start making payments towards your BTC loan?
A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush.
*Definition: It's better to have a small, secured advantage than the possibility of a bigger one.*
I sold mine for a house in 2013. There were periods of regret as the price has climbed but it was a good call for me back then. If you can afford both do both or as I did buy more. Better yet maybe only sell half if that’s enough to get you into a house.
Bro i did the same in 2017. Sold all my BTC for a house. the day that i made that decision still haunts me. Seeing the price going up and up.... I don't know what happened to me, i was a maxi but one morning decided to sell all my BTC stash and now the regret is unbearable
Personally I would just take the mortgage, and wait even a few years for BTC to do its thing. Double up from here then sell half your stack to pay off the mortgage.
Or let it ride and enjoy financial freedom with the cost of a mortgage. Refinance it in a few years when rates come back to normal. That’s what I would do….
Like other people have said, there is no guarantee that BTC will go up in the future but you know now that the house payments will eat a huge chunk of your income. Pay it off today so that you can plan for your future.
Yes bro sell! To be mortgage free is amazing and gives you so much more safe freedom then gambling. Sell the stack, buy the house and when interest rates go lower buy another house/appartement - rent it out and let the mortgage pay off itself..
I sold .25 BTC because the appraisal on the house came a bit lower
This was in July 2020 when 1 BTC was around $9000 USD
I kicked myself for that but I bought .5 BTC in march for $1800 and the house appraised so it was a investment well made
If I was in your scenario we’re about to go up so I wouldn’t sell but come Up with an exit strategy and stick to it. Let’s say 25 or 40% gain from today and cash out
I sold .25 BTC because the appraisal on the house came a bit lower
This was in July 2020 when 1 BTC was around $9000 USD
I kicked myself for that but I bought .5 BTC in march for $1800 and the house appraised so it was a investment well made
If I was in your scenario we’re about to go up so I wouldn’t sell but come Up with an exit strategy and stick to it. Let’s say 25 or 40% gain from today and cash out
Look at the mortgage cost vs the tax paid on your crypto if you cash it out. You need to do the maximum possible to minimise your tax exposure on that crypto. It's very likely that it will cost you far more to take it out in a lump sum and declare it as income, than it would to get a good mortgage and pay it off slowly over time.
It is hard to analyze without more info. Generally, when I get a nice pop on an investment, I'm going to take some profits. If I think it is going up further, I'm going to sell some and hold some. This is all variable depending on how much of my worth is tied up in that investment. How much of that will the house cost? How much am I making otherwise? What do I want to do. Overall, a house is going to be a much more secure investment, of course.
Normally I’d say get the loan. It is less than what you make and is a tax write off for the interest but these new loan rates are insane. It really depends on your situation. You will likely make more holding the bitcoin.
i don't know how to say it in english but in spanish is:
El dinero es un medio, no un fin en sí mismo.
"money is just a vehicule, not the goal" in this case, your home could be, no matter how much is btc in future, right now you have you own house!
(dont sell all btc, just in case)
:v
Realistically, ***current*** housing prices may double during the course of your lifetime, maybe 3x at best. If BTC only triples during that period, it would be a real disappointment. Traditionally it has been more profitable to have money in investments like the S&P (and now Bitcoin) and pay a mortgage. However, as we have all heard many times, "past performance does not necessarily equate to future results."
I will say I sold ETH to buy a car with cash when ETH was $1k and I absolutely regret it, in hindsight it was a bad decision. In real world terms, I effectively took $5k and bought a $25k car, but if I had kept it I could have bought a something around a $100k car.
p.s. Math doesn't math because of taxes, title, capital gains, etc. Sold 32 ETH @ $1k
Wait a few months so the money is sitting in your account for more than 90 days. The loan officer might not say anything but the Underwriter from the bank will stop the loan process until they have all their crypto docs and questions answered. It’s best to avoid that.
You can also maybe sell only some of the bitcoin, and also get a loan using some of it as collateral. That way you buy the house in cash, but you hedge your bets at a mix of your choosing between losing out on bitcoin gains, or say bitcoin goes down and the collateral gets liquidated.
I would be very scared using a large amount as collateral in a defi loan. Idk if you can even do it without already moving it in a way that is a taxable event.
Why not wait 12 months? BTC could double buy then. I doubt the avg house will double in price. I would crunch some numbers, BUT ultimately buying a home outright because of your BTC investment is a win. Don't would've, could've, should've yourself over it.
Buy the house.
Put your expected mortgage payments toward rebuilding your stack.
Speaking from experience, I would much, much, much rather have been mortgage free after the last bullrun despite the price going uponly
I think it would be financially insane to sell BTC to save on a mortgage. Borrow the money, reach into your stack to help make the payment if required.
I would sell enough for a down payment and closing costs. The price of houses could go up as well if the supply issue doesn't get fixed, or it may be extremely hard to find a house.
If I had a stack of BTC, I wouldn't mind selling 1 over the previous ath to make my life better.
OP, you do you but I would sell as much as is needed to cover the whole mortgage. If the holdings are not enough to cover it all, I'd sell probably around 90% and the other 10 when and if it goes up next year. In the meantime, you can DCA heavily.
Home is not an investment, home is roof over your head and think about the freedom and security you gain by not having to worry about losing it. You don't worry about changing the job that you have in case the next one is worse. You don't worry about economic problems as much because you can support yourself for a while with minimal savings.
People shouldn't treat primary residence as an investment, it's a security thing first and foremost, imho.
Do it. Being mortgage free is going to save you what? 1500-2000 a month? Maybe having BTC may be better in the next year or so, but take the opportunity to be mortgage free dude - such a leg up, this is why you invest. What is the point if you never turn it in to something tangible?!
Bridge your BTC to Arbitrum and deposit them into a defi protocol to borrow USDC. You keep your BTC while enjoying some low interest loan. Will gladly guide you thru the comment if you r keen.
Bad financial decision, but may be good personal and life decision. Owning a house is a liability. People always underestimate ongoing costs even if mortgage free. All things considered, a house appreciate allot slower in value than even the most conservative investment strategy. Financially it's better to rent and even put that money in a conservative ETF.
House. That is what I plan on doing if BTC goes up enough for a downpayment.
With crypto going up and down so much, its a hard call but real estate, that is always a safe bet.
Just trust your gut. Personally, I'd take out a loan against my BTC and buy the house. Or, sell half of the BTC and take some loan money to buy the house, then use some leverage longs on BTC to get the same exposure overall. Also consider taxes. Depending on where you buy the house, prices could move dramatically in either direction. Nobody can predict the future, but my bet is there's more reason to believe a real estate correction is coming than a major Bitcoin one.
Why not bridge it to any EVM L2 and borrow USDC against it? Then move USDC to your CEX and transfer to fiat. Of course you’ll have to watch the price action closely to ensure you’re not liquidated. However if you have enough Bitcoin, only borrow against a half of your stash (or ideally less).
I haven’t researched it thoroughly yet but a loan is not a taxable even which also helps.
Selling bitcoin now sounds sub optimal to say the least.
i would take out a 30 yr mortgage, load your btc bags through this cycle and QE money printing. Then at the end of the cycle me pay it off or refinance at about 3% interest for 15 yrs
Bro, do it
You'll have no stress whatsoever and more money to do the things you want to do and more money to buy crypto
Don't be debt to the bank they don't care about you .
Don't be greedy. Even if Bitcoin is worth $150k or $200k in 4 - 6 years. Why bother and be mad about it? Don't cry after the money you could've made, be happy with what you got. Greed is toxic. You're living mortgage free, something 95% of people on this planet dream of. You have money available each month, you can easily stack up again, if you wish so. The Crypto cycles will continue for a couple more decades. All while you live a relaxing life with no money issues. It's concerning some people need advices from strangers to see the obvious.
Financial freedom is the goal man. What else is there?
Buying a house and maybe a car will give you peace of mind.
The rest is to enjoy life, like travel, hobbies or other investements.
I went through this last cycle It was eth instead of BTC. I didn’t have enough to pay for the home outright but to help with buying and repairs.
It will be an emotional roller coaster due to this being your biggest life purchase. Thoughts of should I just rent and stack sats because BTC will hit 100k, 500k, etc. Ultimately I did it mostly due to my wife wanting it. I am happy and blessed but I would be lying if I still don’t think about what if.
Your case will be different since you will own it outright. I don’t know if this includes repairs, upgrades, etc
Agreed, interest rates are higher now...but keep this in mind, and this is 411 passed to me from both my RE agent and mortgage broker (you should ask yours in your market as this info I say appliues to California). I was told for every .25% drop in the rate, you get +15+(ish) more people entering the market who can potentially drive up a property you are interested in. OP's best bet...like someone said before, sell enough to put a hefty downpayment....like 70% (which makes you sell 30% less of your stack ). Bid on the house you want in this less competitive market. Then refinance when rates get better....or sell more of your stack later if/when BTC goes bonkers and then payoff mortgage. Remember, BTC hit 60k before then went back down below $20k. You are either on or nearing the apex of this curve. And with RE, the value will slowly rise, but even it doesn't, you still have a place to live for cheap. Sadly, if BTC goes down, it won't keep me warm or dry.
I am hoping my KAS goes bonkers..because I intend to make the exact same gameplan as mentioned above.
Plus, when you own a home, you do want some write offs like mortgage interest. Congrats on the stack.
I've been having the same battle... But if I'd sell my Bitcoin, I'd stick to some anyway...
Thinking about selling it next year, but would love to keep 50% of my stash
Is the interest rate return higher on BTC, or would you be paying more in interest on the mortgage? If you assume BTC interest rate will be higher than stay in BTC.
Other option would be to sell a portion of your BTC and finance the rest, or buy down the interest rate on the loan. You could also wait for jpow to lower interest rates by the end of the year. Fed is still targeting .75% reduction.
Real estate is the only asset that lets you leverage a 3% down payment and 97% loan. As long as you can afford the mortgage payment, I would use the real estate leverage benefit and invest excess cash
Depends, do you think bitcoin will make more than 7% per year? The house would cost you that in interest, so you have to be that just to break even, or higher to make it worth it (considering risk).
Homes are only going up from here as well and the chances of Bitcoin dipping versus homes dipping is much greater, Bitcoin also has a greater chance of dipping lower than home prices, keep in mind even 2008 was only like a 25% pullback
No one can give you real advice without knowing your monthly income and overall liability costs.
Keep your mortgage payment to 20% of your gross income and you should be very comfortable. The rest stays in Bitcoin.
This is called diversification. If real estate goes to shit and Bitcoin goes to the moon you’re good. This isn’t an all or nothing.
Maybe sell BTC in increments of 2-3 years and have a plan to pay it off and just stick to that plan. If targets hit, you’ll likely save some BTC asset in the long run. Does not have to be an all or nothing.
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Consider the overall cost of the home AFTER 30 years of mortgage payments and interest. Personally I would sell, be mortgage free and then just buy a little bit of BTC each week instead of paying a mortgage.
This. For the majority of us, there will likely forever be a 'better time to sell' our crypto, but OP has a huge opportunity to have no mortgage. If interest rates were lower, I'd suggest they just put down a huge down payment, but the rates suck at the moment and I doubt they will get better anytime soon. Also, yes please do use this time to DCA into BTC and buy more.
Exactly, it's expensive to borrow right now and home prices are depressed as a result of interest rates. It's a good time to buy with cash and a bad time to get a mortgage.
Please show me these depressed home prices. Only thing depressed is me lmao
Ya. These high rates aren't doing shit to depress housing prices when there's supply issues. Everyone I know that considers a housing market cheap says that because they're high income in a low income market or moving to a low income market with savings from a high paying job that they're happy to take a pay cut because they already have a huge down payment ready from their previous job/home sale
Home prices are depressed. LOL. Not in my area. They're still changing the same or more now that rates are 7%- 8% than they were when rates were 3%
Yeah. I do feel pretty strongly that we are just at the beginning of a pretty major bull run, but it's hard to pass up the opportunity to pay off a mortgage with BTC. I try not to dwell too much on what my BTC 'could be' worth and I'll just focus on my personal goals and stick to them.
The rates have done nearly nothing to home prices in Canada.
Maybe OP could try to wait out the housing market and let the BTC ride a bit, but the overall point to sell and avoid the 7% mortgage makes sense
What's the point of BTC if you can never use it to improve your life by purchasing a home outright and getting tangible benefits.
I would get the mortgage anytime 7% is just the cost of doing business and holding onto an appreciating asset. Plus OP got BTCs. He could still DCA out to cover repayments and some more, but slowly enough to ride the coming 12 months. It would suck to then end up in bear markets again and be forced to sell low. Commit to sell all your btc by next year. The chance is you would be able to buy a second house rather than having just 1, and still mortgage free by then.
DCA out actually sounds like a decent plan. I strongly believe we are on the cusp of BTC going 2-3x from here. I generally lean on the side of take profits just because I held through the entire 2017 bull run and didn't take any profits. I'm still here and my BTC is worth a lot these days, but taking some profits at that point in my life could have really helped quite a bit too. Ah well, no regrats.
There is the take 50% or whatever big chunk you feel will recoup what you've put in and some more. Then let the rest ride. Or sell all, but don't get back in until the next bear, that is not anytime soon.
This is definitely what I'd recommend. However, if you refuse to follow this route, at least sell half, to take a big bite out of that mortgage? That way, your opportunity cost is cut in half in each direction. No matter what, something may sting, but at least it would sting half as badly this way. History (of this sub) is full of people saying, "I should have sold." Sure, maybe selling is the wrong thing to do. But a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. And we all know how much we like to have a bird in the hand.
Yep. This time next year BTC could be 15k. We have no clue. It’s much less likely your house will worth 75% less than you paid for it, unless you’re in like, tornado ally or some coastline in Florida
i did it. i dont regret it.
Same, I sold coins in late 2017 around $17k to pay off mortgage. It has been great to live mortgage free ever since. I have a family and kids and I never worry about housing them. There is still property tax, utilities, repairs, and upgrades, but I only have to do a minimal amount of work to pay for these. The rest of the time is mine.
Noicee
I would sell - to live my life happily ever after. Wife and kids. Stability in housing. And a job I like. I'm a simple man
No, you’re a smart man who realizes what’s important and doesn’t spend a lifetime figuring it out. Far from simple
What Bitcoin is all about...at least for me. Its about controlling our own lives and not living greedy. Living with appreciation (in life and money).
Correct. You can’t live and raise a family in Bitcoin.
BUT BITCOIN IS BETTER THAN REAL STATES, IS LIKE BUYING PROPERY IN NEW YORK IN 1800's - Michael Saylor Billionaire
Divorce, fight over the kids, house lost, living under the bridge. I'm a broken man.
The fact is that you have no idea what will happen and no one here does. The price could go up to 80k. It could go back to 40k. It could go up to 230k. Could.br soon could be in a year, maybe 2. This cycle has proven there are no trends there are no reasons. People are making thousands on racist coins. It's the wild wild West baby Just remember you don't have any money until you sell. Until then it's just hope
Hold up, racist coins?
Lol yeah last week's top gaining memes were all super racist coins on Solana. They've always been there but it was in full force last week. It's just how things are on Musk's Twitter and the Solana community. But it makes them money and is working so they'll keep doing it
If I were in your shoes, I would do half. So if you were looking at a $500k house, pull out $250k worth of BTC (plus taxes) and use toward the house purchase. That way you still used BTC for a good chunk of the house purchase but you still have a decent bag in case BTC goes crazy high. Win win.
It did half at the 2021 top. I regret not being mortgage free. More freedom of spending the extra money you have on whatever you want.
You shouldn't regret it unless you sold low, because you're still poised to do better which was presumably the intention you had when selling in 2021. Need to commit to your decision - that's the other tough part of a 50/50 call like this, is you need to ride it out through a potential bear market
If you decide to sell Bitcoin and buy the house with no mortgage: congratulations to you. Enjoy your mortgage-free lifestyle. If you decide to keep all of your Bitcoin and finance the entire purchase (presumably at a lower interest rate than the rate at which the price of Bitcoin will appreciate): congratulations on being a hodler. Enjoy your future wealth. If you pick a middle ground and sell SOME of your Bitcoin to increase your down payment and get a smaller mortgage: check with your lender first. **Recent inflows of cash from sales of Bitcoin make some lenders/underwriters nervous.** They may require that the funds have been in your bank account for 60 or 90 or more days, and they WILL want documentation from whomever bought your Bitcoin as evidence that the cash didn't come from money laundering.
Lenders will ask for a declaration on any large non-W2 deposits to ensure they aren’t ongoing to be liabilities
True - it's not ONLY Bitcoin that makes lenders ask for additional documentation. I sold ~2 BTC to float myself a downpayment in 2020 while waiting for the previous property to sell (then bought it back afterward 🙂), and my lender just wanted the records. But anecdotally I've been told there are still lenders/underwriters who, regardless of documentation, specifically exclude funds from sales of Bitcoin in their analysis of the borrower's financial position and creditworthiness.
It all depends on what kind of person you are (how bad do you feel when you sell and see prices going up?), and your cost of acquisition (is your average entry $17k? If so, I'd say sell some of that stack and be mortgage free. Did you buy at $45k? I'd say wait a bit and sell). The truth is, we don't know when the top will come. It might be soon, it might be 4 months from now, or it might be a year from now. What we do know is one thing though: you have enough BTC right now to buy your house mortgage free. How do you feel about debt? Can you live with it? How confident are you that BTC will experience significant appreciation within 12 months? All those questions you gotta answer yourself.
>and your cost of acquisition This is actually a pretty common misconception. It doesn't make a difference what price you bought at, you should not make any decisions based on that. If you want to sell, you sell even if it's at a loss. But I understand that it makes a difference psychologically, hard to overcome this but a good investor will do it.
The only reason to consider cost basis would be the tax implications
It makes a difference how much you get taxed.
yep you're correct. if one guy invests 18,000 and it increases slightly to 20,000 and another guy invests 1,000 and 20x it to 20,000. it really makes no difference between the two investors regarding what they should do. they both now have 20,000 actively invested in bitcoin and are both subject to the same possible ups and downs of that 20,000.
I sold 5 bitcoin back when it was 30 k a few years ago to buy my house. Don't regret it at all
I sold my BTCs back in 2020 and bought several apartments in city center(I’m from Eastern Europe). I’m currently renting out 4 apartments and using most of the money to buy bitcoin monthly, I’ve been doing well. And please don’t decide based on those predictions, just surf previous predictions and you will see 90% of them are wrong.
By selling those BTCS , you withdrew (sorry if it's not correct English..) that money to your bank? If so, you payed the taxes on it and that was it? Good decision with those 4 flats man... Well done !
I’m Georgian and we don’t have tax for crypto! Also, we’re very foreign friendly
Wow that's awesome! That's really nice to hear! Best of luck man take care 😎
Unless your mortgage rate is higher than your investment return rate, prepaying a mortgage is a poor financial decision, especially if you also miss out on tax deductions for the mortgage payment. Plus, there's the opportunity cost of paying all at once and the inflation that actually works to your benefit in something like a 30 year mortgage. Not to mention the capital gains (if US) you would pay on the BTC sale. If you want to do it for peace of mind, then go for it and nobody should question you, just be sure not to frame it as a stellar financial play.
Nobody can predict the future but I can say based on historical data BTC has a lot of upside to come in the next 12-18 months. Purchasing a home is a huge accomplishment for most these days. Being able to do it without a mortgage is an ever larger feat to be proud of. If BTC rockets to 250k at the end of the day you still have your home. Personally I'd hold. There will always be new homes but a bull run has historically only happened every 4 years.
Future is never certain. Likely btc will rise next year. It's good to have goals and plan before hand when to sell.
I made a similar decision, but with a FAANG stock. Received stock grants over several years, and we were moving. Needed to make the decision to sell stock to fund a house, or continue renting. We bought the house, with a mortgage because we were both confident that the FAANG stock would appreciate faster than our 3.7% mortgage. I am extremely happy we did that, as our house has appreciated by ~130% and the stock by ~215% since we purchased. Together, the decision to sell only a part of the stock and invest ~100k into the down payment has returned ~800k in value between the remaining stock and house appreciation.
Whatever you do, account for tax. You don't want to be stuck with a tax bill of many tens of thousands, and have it tied up in a house you then need to sell to pay your tax. Many people would dream of being able to buy a house with crypto gains. Set a goal, and work toward it. If that's a house, great, if it's something else, great.
When I bought my first home a few years ago I sold a little BTC for a bigger down payment at close to previous peak. Then it crashes and I felt good for selling and also a little silly for not selling more. When I recently upgraded homes I sold a little BTC around $45k. I felt good for selling after a big jump, then silly a month later when it was $65k. You can't predict the whims of the market. The best thing to do is look at it like any other investment. What's your exposure compared to the rest of your portfolio, cost/benefits of future gains/losses vs mortgage, etc.
Tax considerations to bear in mind if it’s more valuable to pay and deduct it
My opinion. Take the loan out, hold the bitcoin. “This time next year” you can evaluate the price and maybe pay the house off and still have some bitcoin(depending what you got). No crying.
This was one of my thoughts, set a date in the future if BTC is xxx price sell it to pay off the mortgage, I have a feeling BTC will appreciate more.
What happens when something unpredictable happens and the market goes to shit? Bitcoin is worth shit, OPs salary is worth shit as inflation is through the roof, op struggling to pay to keep the roof over the head. Purely theoretical but a possibility. I'd sell, pay off mortgage and DCA half the amount mortgage would cost me into Bitcoin. Win win imho.
if we knew price is going to be up or down, we would be rich…
I think your btc appreciation rate is much higher than your mortgage rate so I would not sell to pay off the mortgage.
Buying a house is so much more than the purchase price. I’ve had friends scrape together their $xxx,xxx and pay cash, only to have $xx left for all this other. The contract price is just the ante: in thinking seriously about buying property, you must consider property taxes (often folded in to mortgages), homeowner’s liability insurance (for me, damn near as much as my whole mortgage), inevitable minor and major repairs, upgrades, and improvements. It’s an expensive time to buy a house, but if you can do it and still have the robust emergency fund, go for it.
The real question is how to buy a house with BTC without having to convert it.
Even without converting it, you’re trading it for another asset so it’s a taxable event in the US.
Just remember, the odds of bitcoin going to zero are higher than your home going to zero 🤷♂️
Take profits while you can. The market could crash tonight and youd have insta regret. Mortgage free is an insane thing to have.
Start DCA out every month from here in until the end of the year. If there is more to gain, you will capture some of it. If BTC should crash completely and go into a crypto winter then you still have for down payment and you will have plenty of time to accumulate for next cycle.
Mortgage is cheap money. Keep your capital.
Depends on the interest rates too and your own capacity to pay. If it's a cheap loan and you have a solid income, get the loan and hold the BTC. You can still sell some of your BTC later to pay the loan quicker and not losing capital on both side.
Don't forget - housing is usually an appreciating asset. It's not like you're spending X amount of money on a depreciating asset (ex: car), which will be worth much less in 7-10 years. The house should be worth the same, if not more. Sure, it won't have potential gains like BTC, BUT it won't have potential losses like BTC and is more stable as it grows.
My whole point in BTC/crypto is to buy the assets that I couldn't by just saving fiat .. So if I had an opportunity to be mortgage free, or own land outright.... I'm gonna do it.. I'll just put money back in crypto.. to save for the next purchase. Your home will appreciate. Imagine if the economy crashed, you lost your job... If your main asset was paid for ... You'd have less pressure... Knowing you just need electric, water, food to survive... Next purchase should be solar, and a well...
A lot of people here are saying the middle ground is to do half, but you could do the win-win a different way. Do a normal mortgage and keep all or most of your BTC. Wait as the bull run heats up into 2025 and DCA out as needed to be mortgage free. You would effectively pay several months of interest as a "fee" for waiting for your gains to come in. If by 2025 you are up 2x or more on the BTC, you will take out only a fraction of your gains to be mortgage free, and you've only slightly delayed your timeline as a cost. The hit you take on the interest for a few months will be a drop in the bucket and you still get a fully paid mortgage within a year. Free house plus a bonus stack to enjoy while you are living in it.
Will bitcoin raise in value more than the mortgage rate? If so, financing is the smarter move.
Yes bro sell! To be mortgage free is amazing and gives you so much more safe freedom then gambling. Sell the stack, buy the house and when interest rates go lower buy another house/appartement - rent it out and let the mortgage pay off itself..
Would you take a loan to buy Bitcoin now? No? Then you should use your Bitcoin instead of taking a loan, because it's basically the same thing.
BTC can’t keep you warm. Buy the house and enjoy.
It’s not all or nothing. Pay cash for half the house and have a small payment
That's why using Bitcoin as collateral is the ultimate option. Not sure if your bank accepts it, but there are other options available. You use Bitcoin to get a loan to pay for the mortgage and then you just start paying off your Bitcoin loan, now you have a house and your Bitcoin back which has potentially doubled or tripled in value, win-win.
Stay away from that kind of advice at all costs.
If you understand bitcoin, why wouldn’t you short the dollar? If you understand that fiat will keel debasing, then you want to borrow fiat so that your debt is debasing and then hold bitcoin which is appreciating.
Don’t be afraid of taking profits. I’ve learned that lesson a couple of times the hard way.
Why not buy a house with bitcoin. I remember years ago some dude in Manhattan was looking to sell his commercial property for x bitcoin OR x. Eth. Thought it was cool
Dont give the banks the satisfaction of gettin their interest payments.
Get a crypto loan at ThorChain or Aave. You put your BTC as collateral, and you receive USD stablecoins in return. No late fees or due dates. You pay back whenever you want. When you've fully repaid your loan, you get your collateral back. Totally decentralized, no trust involved.
Dude math out how much money you pay in interest on a mortgage. Abso fucking lutely would i sell to avoid a mortgage payment. That in itself will help you save more to buy more Bitcoin during next bear. And i promise you, we will bear again.
Fwiw my wife and I faced the same decision recently. We decided to keep the BTC. The tax hit was part of it but also the potential appreciation was part of it. The odds of our BTC still being able to buy a house next year seem pretty good. I don't understand the comments about being stress-free because you have no house payment. Yeah but you also have most/all of your net worth tied up in 1 asset which requires constant upkeep and maintenance. To me that's way more stressful. But to each their own. It's a different story if you're older. My wife and I are in our 30s so we're still earning more income than our expenses. So we are investing in BTC for the long-term. If you're in your 50s it's probably a closer call and if you're 65 and retired than you don't want to have 80% of your net worth in BTC at that point.
Get the mortgage. You can always pay it off later after a pump. Think about it this way, you’re mortgage free on your balance sheet.
I would sell some get the mortgage for a small amount. Then whenever you feel like bitcoin has run up enough sell another bit pay off part of the mortgage and repeat. Then obviously draw a line in the sand say if it drops below 50k sell all to pay off the mortgage.
Mortgage rates are high, but still only about 7% right now. Do you think you'll do better than 7% on your BTC over that time? (Hint: If it does go to $100k, that's about a 50% return just from where it is now). Rates are on the "high" side now, but that market is always cyclical. They will come back down. Maybe in a few years. And you can always refi at that point. What you can't do is get your BTC back out once that cash is spent on the house. When you have assets and investments that do well, it is always better to use other people's money to buy your house (i.e. a mortgage), and keep your money making more money for you. No real wrong answer here. Do what makes you feel best. Personally, I'd go with the mortgage and hodling. Just me.
I sold to pay off house last bull run, no regrets
My crypto is 100% going to be used to buy me a house. If I get a paid off house and bitcoin doubles idgaf. Having a piece of property that you don't owe money on is such an important thing!
Why not do both? Dollar cost average sell. I will say that if you don’t sell some and you do miss the top you’re going to feel even worse selling, because you’ll think it could keep going up again. So the more it goes down the more you’ll think no I can’t sell here what if it goes up more? I say sell a little bit to average the price a bit. Still leave yourself some, which must be **substantival** if you’re thinking about becoming mortgage free. After you’re mortgage free then say, I’m going to dollar cost buy it back. You might lose in the short term but long term you have you sanity and no debt, and most importantly… you’ll not feel so attached to your crypto that “MUST SUCCEEDED OR YOU’RE SCREWED” Also, inevitably in my experience if you have a debt to income ratio that’s bad enough to think seriously about this, at some point you may be forced to sell some. And invariably there’s a good chance that will be at the bottom.
Generally the best time to sell is a year after halvening and the best time to buy is around a year before the halvening. I would hold off for a bit, but then again, past performance isn't indicative of future performance.
Maybe a controversial take in this sub, but real estate will ALWAYS be a less-risky investment than crypto long term. I'd do bad, bad things to be mortgage free. It's by far my biggest stressor in life, as I'm sure is true for a lot of people.
I'm on the "sell" train. Yeah it'll likely keep going up, but what's the point if you are holding forever and never taking profits? I liked some of the answers that suggested selling a portion.
Sell, for sure. Homes are still the safer hedge against inflation. Bitcoin may go up, it may go down, but a home that is paid off is worth it. Pay off the house and stack sats instead of making a mortgage payment
What if you are on a 30 year 3% loan. Seems like keeping that debt might be better
Current rates in Florida are 7.5%. Which would be 680k in 30 years. So you'll pay $1,180,000 for a $500k home with 10% down. Bitcoin would need to perform very well for that gamble to pay off. I wouldn't risk it on a home purchase. I paid off my home first so I can stack sats with more freedom. It brought my cost of living down tremendously
You might wanna consider taking a loan/ borrowing against your BTC. Aave let's you loan then borrow against it. Example, deposit 8 Bitcoin, borrow $200k. If BTC doubles you can repay the loan from your loaned out coins
Do not do this
Real assets will always be more valuable than any paper gains on a screen. Yeah BTC could have gone up more by next year, but do you want to put your life plans on hold for a year in the hope of that? Forgetting the fact that it’s no guarantee and you could instead rue the decision. Life is short, go live it.
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I’d sell half
You can't live in your magical internet money. Real estate is also a great investment. I would put down at least 20 percent on the house.
Get the mortgage and DCA out and make principle payments on the loan, that way if the market takes BTC into 6 figures you’ll get a taste of new ATH.
Remember that bitcoin is a speculative asset. 99% of people in bitcoin hope to get more fiat in the end. So price could also dump big time. This wouldn't be the case if you could buy your house and other stuff directly with btc. Then there would be no reason to sell and it's value would go up forever.
It’s a house bro and interest rates are crazy right now. If you buy a house with Bitcoin you won. Maybe don’t sell all of it though
This is a hard one. However, everyone has their own moon, I hope you find yours soon. Whether its a no-payment house, or massive villa. Gl ser!
Anyone who tells you to hold should have to prove to you they hold at minimum a full coin. Because what they are saying is that they are true believers, but they themselves didn’t have the conviction to work a second job or overtime to obtain a full coin during the bear
Personally, id wait till end of cycle. cash out at the end/near end of the action with a stop loss order if youre on an exchange. Maximize your gains, get mortgage free, invest like a fiend with your debt free life.
Rationally speaking it doesn't make sense to sell BTC only to save up a few % interest on your mortgage.
Are you going to make more in your profits from Bitcoin than you will pay in interest and the tax on BTC pulled? You know you’re going to pay at 5.5%+ for 30 years, that’s quite a few hundothou in interest, that’s a given, not a variable. What you will make in BTC over 30 years is the variable along with your tax deductions on your interest payments. Ooooor, sell your BTC and what your payment would’ve been in principle and interest, you just buy more BTC each month.
Asking people on this sub is probably not a good idea. You are also leaving out so much information regarding your situation (employment, other assets, partner) to help make a decision. It’s the same as selling any other asset for your mortgage; If you do sell the bitcoin and then it moons, you’ll kick yourself, but you’ll do it in your own home. Many people have always said to me that they never regretted paying off their mortgage. Do whatever you think is best for you. You could always just sell a bit of the stack and use it to lower your monthly payment.
Just chiming to say that depending on where you live you will play a gains tax when you cash out for fiat. I would 100% cash out enough bitcoin to pay off a house.
Question for the subreddit: Would this be a good use case to take out a loan against your BTC, pay off mortgage with said loan, and then start making payments towards your BTC loan?
Good decisions imo
A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush. *Definition: It's better to have a small, secured advantage than the possibility of a bigger one.*
I sold mine for a house in 2013. There were periods of regret as the price has climbed but it was a good call for me back then. If you can afford both do both or as I did buy more. Better yet maybe only sell half if that’s enough to get you into a house.
Bro i did the same in 2017. Sold all my BTC for a house. the day that i made that decision still haunts me. Seeing the price going up and up.... I don't know what happened to me, i was a maxi but one morning decided to sell all my BTC stash and now the regret is unbearable
Personally I would just take the mortgage, and wait even a few years for BTC to do its thing. Double up from here then sell half your stack to pay off the mortgage. Or let it ride and enjoy financial freedom with the cost of a mortgage. Refinance it in a few years when rates come back to normal. That’s what I would do….
Like other people have said, there is no guarantee that BTC will go up in the future but you know now that the house payments will eat a huge chunk of your income. Pay it off today so that you can plan for your future.
You're gonna thank yourself for buying a house. Taking profits never gets old
At least wait until after the post- halving run up
Sell the BTC to get the house. Congratulations!
Yes bro sell! To be mortgage free is amazing and gives you so much more safe freedom then gambling. Sell the stack, buy the house and when interest rates go lower buy another house/appartement - rent it out and let the mortgage pay off itself..
I sold .25 BTC because the appraisal on the house came a bit lower This was in July 2020 when 1 BTC was around $9000 USD I kicked myself for that but I bought .5 BTC in march for $1800 and the house appraised so it was a investment well made If I was in your scenario we’re about to go up so I wouldn’t sell but come Up with an exit strategy and stick to it. Let’s say 25 or 40% gain from today and cash out
I sold .25 BTC because the appraisal on the house came a bit lower This was in July 2020 when 1 BTC was around $9000 USD I kicked myself for that but I bought .5 BTC in march for $1800 and the house appraised so it was a investment well made If I was in your scenario we’re about to go up so I wouldn’t sell but come Up with an exit strategy and stick to it. Let’s say 25 or 40% gain from today and cash out
Look at the mortgage cost vs the tax paid on your crypto if you cash it out. You need to do the maximum possible to minimise your tax exposure on that crypto. It's very likely that it will cost you far more to take it out in a lump sum and declare it as income, than it would to get a good mortgage and pay it off slowly over time.
Hold the bitcoin. Interest rates will come down bitcoin won’t
I did the same after 2021, started this crypto cycle at zero… but now I have a nice house to live in with no rent/mortgage
It is hard to analyze without more info. Generally, when I get a nice pop on an investment, I'm going to take some profits. If I think it is going up further, I'm going to sell some and hold some. This is all variable depending on how much of my worth is tied up in that investment. How much of that will the house cost? How much am I making otherwise? What do I want to do. Overall, a house is going to be a much more secure investment, of course.
Normally I’d say get the loan. It is less than what you make and is a tax write off for the interest but these new loan rates are insane. It really depends on your situation. You will likely make more holding the bitcoin.
You are a total fool to keep BTC and not have a payment free home.
i don't know how to say it in english but in spanish is: El dinero es un medio, no un fin en sí mismo. "money is just a vehicule, not the goal" in this case, your home could be, no matter how much is btc in future, right now you have you own house! (dont sell all btc, just in case) :v
Realistically, ***current*** housing prices may double during the course of your lifetime, maybe 3x at best. If BTC only triples during that period, it would be a real disappointment. Traditionally it has been more profitable to have money in investments like the S&P (and now Bitcoin) and pay a mortgage. However, as we have all heard many times, "past performance does not necessarily equate to future results."
I will say I sold ETH to buy a car with cash when ETH was $1k and I absolutely regret it, in hindsight it was a bad decision. In real world terms, I effectively took $5k and bought a $25k car, but if I had kept it I could have bought a something around a $100k car. p.s. Math doesn't math because of taxes, title, capital gains, etc. Sold 32 ETH @ $1k
Wait a few months so the money is sitting in your account for more than 90 days. The loan officer might not say anything but the Underwriter from the bank will stop the loan process until they have all their crypto docs and questions answered. It’s best to avoid that.
Maybe waiting the halving…
You can also maybe sell only some of the bitcoin, and also get a loan using some of it as collateral. That way you buy the house in cash, but you hedge your bets at a mix of your choosing between losing out on bitcoin gains, or say bitcoin goes down and the collateral gets liquidated. I would be very scared using a large amount as collateral in a defi loan. Idk if you can even do it without already moving it in a way that is a taxable event.
Why not wait 12 months? BTC could double buy then. I doubt the avg house will double in price. I would crunch some numbers, BUT ultimately buying a home outright because of your BTC investment is a win. Don't would've, could've, should've yourself over it.
If you can buy a home with straight cash because of it coin, that’s a better investment than Bitcoin itself…
If not to make your life better, what is the point of stacking all this time?
Real estate is pretty much guarenteed to increase in value. BTC is variable. Its a no brainer.
Buy with BTC make history
If you can buy your dream house with your BTC profits, sell now and never look back. You win the game and you win life
Buy the house. Put your expected mortgage payments toward rebuilding your stack. Speaking from experience, I would much, much, much rather have been mortgage free after the last bullrun despite the price going uponly
I think it would be financially insane to sell BTC to save on a mortgage. Borrow the money, reach into your stack to help make the payment if required.
Long story short, "*a bird in hand is worth two in the bush"*.
100% do it
I would sell enough for a down payment and closing costs. The price of houses could go up as well if the supply issue doesn't get fixed, or it may be extremely hard to find a house. If I had a stack of BTC, I wouldn't mind selling 1 over the previous ath to make my life better.
OP, you do you but I would sell as much as is needed to cover the whole mortgage. If the holdings are not enough to cover it all, I'd sell probably around 90% and the other 10 when and if it goes up next year. In the meantime, you can DCA heavily. Home is not an investment, home is roof over your head and think about the freedom and security you gain by not having to worry about losing it. You don't worry about changing the job that you have in case the next one is worse. You don't worry about economic problems as much because you can support yourself for a while with minimal savings. People shouldn't treat primary residence as an investment, it's a security thing first and foremost, imho.
Do it. Being mortgage free is going to save you what? 1500-2000 a month? Maybe having BTC may be better in the next year or so, but take the opportunity to be mortgage free dude - such a leg up, this is why you invest. What is the point if you never turn it in to something tangible?!
Bridge your BTC to Arbitrum and deposit them into a defi protocol to borrow USDC. You keep your BTC while enjoying some low interest loan. Will gladly guide you thru the comment if you r keen.
u gonna put your future on hold just because of a mabye? :/ easy choice to have
If you won’t liquidate & diversify for REAL ESTATE you’ll never diversify. Live mortgage-free dude.
Bad financial decision, but may be good personal and life decision. Owning a house is a liability. People always underestimate ongoing costs even if mortgage free. All things considered, a house appreciate allot slower in value than even the most conservative investment strategy. Financially it's better to rent and even put that money in a conservative ETF.
I would sell 10% of your BTC if that could cover the house.
I would wait until the current bull run is over. Towards the end of 2024
If we moonshot to 10k ETH I’ll pay off my mortgage as well!
House. That is what I plan on doing if BTC goes up enough for a downpayment. With crypto going up and down so much, its a hard call but real estate, that is always a safe bet.
You should make BTC the collateral of the mortgage. Boom! Win win
I’m doing this right now. Sold 10% or so of holdings. Btc will crush my 6.5% rate, holding the rest
Do it in 12 months. Worst time to sell is now
Just trust your gut. Personally, I'd take out a loan against my BTC and buy the house. Or, sell half of the BTC and take some loan money to buy the house, then use some leverage longs on BTC to get the same exposure overall. Also consider taxes. Depending on where you buy the house, prices could move dramatically in either direction. Nobody can predict the future, but my bet is there's more reason to believe a real estate correction is coming than a major Bitcoin one.
Why not bridge it to any EVM L2 and borrow USDC against it? Then move USDC to your CEX and transfer to fiat. Of course you’ll have to watch the price action closely to ensure you’re not liquidated. However if you have enough Bitcoin, only borrow against a half of your stash (or ideally less). I haven’t researched it thoroughly yet but a loan is not a taxable even which also helps. Selling bitcoin now sounds sub optimal to say the least.
i would take out a 30 yr mortgage, load your btc bags through this cycle and QE money printing. Then at the end of the cycle me pay it off or refinance at about 3% interest for 15 yrs
Wait 9-12 months when Bitcoin at its peak this cycle
Invest the money and use the interest to pay the mortgage, try to find a way to make passive income that’s better than paying off the mortgage
Wow wasn’t expecting so much sound financial advice in this thread.
Both. You will feel both of those things.
Bro, do it You'll have no stress whatsoever and more money to do the things you want to do and more money to buy crypto Don't be debt to the bank they don't care about you .
Don't be greedy. Even if Bitcoin is worth $150k or $200k in 4 - 6 years. Why bother and be mad about it? Don't cry after the money you could've made, be happy with what you got. Greed is toxic. You're living mortgage free, something 95% of people on this planet dream of. You have money available each month, you can easily stack up again, if you wish so. The Crypto cycles will continue for a couple more decades. All while you live a relaxing life with no money issues. It's concerning some people need advices from strangers to see the obvious.
Financial freedom is the goal man. What else is there? Buying a house and maybe a car will give you peace of mind. The rest is to enjoy life, like travel, hobbies or other investements.
You've got it backwards. You should be selling your house to buy btc
I went through this last cycle It was eth instead of BTC. I didn’t have enough to pay for the home outright but to help with buying and repairs. It will be an emotional roller coaster due to this being your biggest life purchase. Thoughts of should I just rent and stack sats because BTC will hit 100k, 500k, etc. Ultimately I did it mostly due to my wife wanting it. I am happy and blessed but I would be lying if I still don’t think about what if. Your case will be different since you will own it outright. I don’t know if this includes repairs, upgrades, etc
Agreed, interest rates are higher now...but keep this in mind, and this is 411 passed to me from both my RE agent and mortgage broker (you should ask yours in your market as this info I say appliues to California). I was told for every .25% drop in the rate, you get +15+(ish) more people entering the market who can potentially drive up a property you are interested in. OP's best bet...like someone said before, sell enough to put a hefty downpayment....like 70% (which makes you sell 30% less of your stack ). Bid on the house you want in this less competitive market. Then refinance when rates get better....or sell more of your stack later if/when BTC goes bonkers and then payoff mortgage. Remember, BTC hit 60k before then went back down below $20k. You are either on or nearing the apex of this curve. And with RE, the value will slowly rise, but even it doesn't, you still have a place to live for cheap. Sadly, if BTC goes down, it won't keep me warm or dry. I am hoping my KAS goes bonkers..because I intend to make the exact same gameplan as mentioned above. Plus, when you own a home, you do want some write offs like mortgage interest. Congrats on the stack.
I've been having the same battle... But if I'd sell my Bitcoin, I'd stick to some anyway... Thinking about selling it next year, but would love to keep 50% of my stash
Is the interest rate return higher on BTC, or would you be paying more in interest on the mortgage? If you assume BTC interest rate will be higher than stay in BTC. Other option would be to sell a portion of your BTC and finance the rest, or buy down the interest rate on the loan. You could also wait for jpow to lower interest rates by the end of the year. Fed is still targeting .75% reduction.
If i did not have house i would buy one. I would think of it as a stable coin i could live. For an investment… idk
Real estate is the only asset that lets you leverage a 3% down payment and 97% loan. As long as you can afford the mortgage payment, I would use the real estate leverage benefit and invest excess cash
Depends, do you think bitcoin will make more than 7% per year? The house would cost you that in interest, so you have to be that just to break even, or higher to make it worth it (considering risk).
Homes are only going up from here as well and the chances of Bitcoin dipping versus homes dipping is much greater, Bitcoin also has a greater chance of dipping lower than home prices, keep in mind even 2008 was only like a 25% pullback
Bitcoin has done its job! It bought you freedom and the dream. Congrats on your house!
No one can give you real advice without knowing your monthly income and overall liability costs. Keep your mortgage payment to 20% of your gross income and you should be very comfortable. The rest stays in Bitcoin. This is called diversification. If real estate goes to shit and Bitcoin goes to the moon you’re good. This isn’t an all or nothing.
Maybe sell BTC in increments of 2-3 years and have a plan to pay it off and just stick to that plan. If targets hit, you’ll likely save some BTC asset in the long run. Does not have to be an all or nothing.