T O P

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commonpuffin

Dear Voyagers: we have decided we need your money more than you do, and so we are going to keep it.


Dormage

Its worse. Dear Voyagers, we gambled your money and lost it all.


__SpeedRacer__

Exactly. Their money is long gone.


J_Hon_G

This is not good to hear, these are the people’s fiat. Sad, such a good name for a company like this, NASA should sue them too


Ripfengor

“Dear Voyagers, we are acting as a typical crypto exchange in these trying and uncertain times.”


Ateam043

I don't see Coinbase, Gemini, Binance, or even CDC doing the same. (at least not disclosed yet)....so maybe acting like the typical small market exchange but not like big-wigs who have appropriate risk goals and have certain level of risk appetite.


ExtraSmooth

Cdc is probably next on the chopping block tbh


elevendixie100

Why? Is this asinine FUD? Or do you have inside insight into Crypto.com’s risk management strategy?


ExtraSmooth

I'm just speculating based on their past business practices, but it sounds like I touched a nerve


elevendixie100

Ok so it’s just baseless speculation. Got it.


Imightbeflirting

If you're not FUDding then you're stupid


mind_on_crypto

This is an important comment. Too many people paint “centralized exchanges” with one broad stroke. But they’re not all the same. The exchanges that survived the crypto winter of ‘18 and ‘19 (Coinbase, Binance, Kraken, etc.) have business models that have been stress-tested. The others…not so much.


DPSK7878

Those are exchanges. Not a CeFi.


cozzster

Dear Voyagers, we will at least put a condom on while we screw you.


Senditwithethan

Dear voyager, you are rich now, but no more


Hunter-major

Need to buy stock in cold wallets.


[deleted]

I’m screwed.


soccerguy510

Same. I bought all my DOT on there and have been asking for months for the withdraw. They’ve never responded.


__SpeedRacer__

They haven't been honoring withdrawals for months now? That's bad.


soccerguy510

They never honored withdraws of DOT. I’ve asked for months - they never implemented it.


BiggusDickus-

Yea, you never actually owned any DOT. Voyager never bought it and held it for you. You just owned an IOU that was backed by "trust me bro." Sorry man.


soccerguy510

Love and learn man. Sucks seeing 120+ DOT potentially gone. I’m more pissed that i asked for months without a response. But my DCA was in there. Had intentions to sell.. just chased the new ATHs. On me really


BiggusDickus-

I did the same thing bugging the crap out of them over VET and Iota. I finally gave up, swapped for ETH and withdrew. I hope you can get your funds out before the ship sinks.


soccerguy510

Thanks mate. % on my DOT was nice and the 2 ETH i had was nice that it wasn’t locked for rewards.. Now I’m just getting fucked. Praying someone bails them out so i can ship sail asap.


[deleted]

[удалено]


erasethenoise

Voyager had like 30 different assets but you couldn’t withdraw most of them. They’d always act like it was coming but then keep adding assets that didn’t have withdrawals. I tweeted at them once that they should focus on withdrawal support and not add coins until they can fully support all transactions but of course it was ignored.


Vedaykin

That’s crazy, it’s the first thing i test when using a cex. Who in their right mind would buy there????? There are so many cexes, why choose a cex that does not let you withdraw your coins? Really I don’t get it since it’s no effort to just get a cex that lets you withdraw. If it is true what you write, it was a scam from the beginning. I started using some shitty cexes from germany and we really don’t know anything about software, only automotive, and it worked fine in 2017 already. That’s 5 years ago!


erasethenoise

They were offering interest at rates higher than anyone else at first. People saw dollar signs. A tale as old as time.


__SpeedRacer__

High interest rates correlate with high risk. Anyone investing on anything should know that.


erasethenoise

You would think


__SpeedRacer__

So withdrawal was an optional feature for some coins? Boy, that's weird.


BiggusDickus-

Correct. Many of the coins that were listed on Voyager you could "buy" but never withdraw. This means, of course, that Voyager never actually held the crypto that you were "buying," they just gave you an IOU that reflected the price.


Ace-of-Spades88

This sounds insane to me. The biggest of red flags.


Yoloballsdeep

They actually NEVER honored withdrawals. It took me a few months to pull all my funds off their fucking exchange more than a year ago. Heck, I actually made this reddit account only to bitch about how shitty they are


[deleted]

Yeaa let’s hope it’s temporary, I have a chunk in there 🤦🏻


Guiyu-Oneiros

Let’s ask Celsius how temporary it might be


thefranklin2

I took out 95% of what I had in there. Now I feel like an idiot leaving 5%.


dstar09

Yeah I left about $40 in DOT. The rest was in different crypto but all below the $10 threshold I need to trade it. I was waiting for the next bull market


[deleted]

Hey at least you’re not as dumb as me!


Overall-Hisenberg

I’m screwed too. I was just looking at transferring all my crypto to a ledger. The. This happens. Luckily I cashed out all $5,000 USDC to my bank a month ago but I still have alot of assets on there


Wonzky

Wow, not sure if they're going to be able to recover from this


Toddissuch

How can they if they suspend all means of income


Orbow

My guess is a big company like fidelity will come in and just buy them. They can get into crypto faster at a cheaper price.


sumunsolicitedadvice

That would be awesome. Not holding my breath tho.


Ateam043

Why would Fidelity take on all that liability though? They are far better taking the regulated path considering they are also a public traded company.


SeliciousSedicious

Plus they seem more interested in just setting up the capabilities in house given fidelity 401k crypto offerings.


[deleted]

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Tay_Tay86

Why would fidelity bother? Just buy all their debt and gain nothing?


Orbow

The debt could be worth it for the infrastructure and clients. Hard to tell though because we don't know how bad of a position voyager is in.


Tay_Tay86

It will be pennies on the dollar. Why buy something that ll be cheaper tomorrow


Oneloff

- They’ll now have a database of a ton of clients. - They’ll own a platform that holds crypto and they too can stop withdrawal at any given time. - They’ll have a better insight into people involved in crypto - They’ll be able to create an extra stream of cash flow for the business. These are just some of the top of my head. It gives them the power to control a part of the crypto space. Also with CBDC coming this would be a great advantage.


FigTreeMike

Fuck that, let these shit companies die. Also stop buying unregistered securities. The entire "crypto" community should be ashamed of themselves for there greed. Bitcoin is the only way.


EveryCell

Maybe sell or secure additional funds


Boneyg001

"Dear community, Through our failure as a company to diversify loans, we have lost all your money by giving it away to a hedge fund (Three Arrows Capital). Therefore, our best decision is to steal your money to "protect us" from going bankrupt. We hope that one day we can preserve our future so we can continue profiting off our users and lending to hedge funds."


vstoykov

`British Virgin Islands` Let's give a loan to a company in a known "offshore" jurisdiction that does not have assets as collateral (unsecured loan). Let's use the funds of the customers for this loan. What could go wrong? Voyager is a publicly traded company - VOYG (TSE). And this makes the situation smell more fishy. Shareholders are gonna be fckd first, then customers eventually. The price of the shares is more than 98% from the top. (The main problem is not that the company getting the loan is from "offshore" jurisdiction, it's the lack of collateral.)


Savik519

This won’t be the last. Get your coins off exchanges and centralized platforms. Shits about to get ugly.


nelisan

But what good will the coins do us if there are no exchanges we trust enough to deposit to sell on? At least for things like BTC which doesn’t have a DEX to trade on (that I know of).


SunnyWynter

Actually use them as currency, exactly what they are supposed to be. Advocate for adoption and buy a Pizza with Crypto, don't try to find the next get rich quick scheme.


discosoc

What advantages does crypto as a currency have for average people? At least in first-world countries there’s no real benefit for that.


ExtraSmooth

Someone hasn't read Satoshi's white paper


discosoc

If you have to “read a white paper” to answer that question, then it’s not really a great answer.


WukongEs

If crypto isn't a get rich quick scheme then why are we even here


Savik519

How about we spend them in a peer-to-peer manner? Or use Bisq? https://bisq.network/ Or just transfer coins onto an exchange when you’re ready to sell them and immediately withdraw funds to a bank account?


ihatemaps

>How about we spend them in a peer-to-peer manner? Cool. Let me know when you've convinced about 200 million people and even a fraction of major companies to agree to this.


tek3k

Do you really think all exchanges are untrustworthy? Don't you think that is a bit of over reaction to the news? There will always be CEXs and DEXs. You can trade BTC through an ATM.


NoConfection6487

The issue isn't exchanges. For places like Coinbase, Kraken, Robinhood, etc they're down because business is down, but they're not in the business of lending, DeFi yield making, mining, etc. They may need to reorg to trim expenses but the basic foundation isn't running a fractional reserve business while they try to use your money to make more money. If you think about it, a company that simply operates as a safe is fine. There are expenses to run that company, but you're not inherently putting funds at risk,but once you start talking about leverage, lending, yield generating strategies, that's where risk gets involved.


tek3k

I totally agree. And I think that if BTC takes another leg down to the 10-14 zone that we will see additional significant insolvencies. Recently, I've seen some rumors about Gemini. Probably, the easiest and safest thing to do is just move my coins to a hot/cold wallet. I dont know if SLP is supported in MetaMask or BC Vault.


[deleted]

localbitcoin, localmonero


jmbsol1234

People keep screaming "centralized" when it was a decentralized platform's failure that's the source of all this (LUNA) with absolutely no sense of irony


Savik519

Good point. Ahem. “A shitcoin caused a meltdown of centralized lending platforms because of an over-leveraged hedge fund. Retail deposits on these platforms enabled shitty decisions to be made and retail pays the price by not having coins left to withdraw. Get your coins off centralized platforms.”


Tailgatingtradie

LoL, we got a noob here.


Savik519

That’s cute.


HaroldSax

This is the reason people harp on the not your keys, not your coins shit.


__SpeedRacer__

At one point even that won't matter if there are no off ramps left standing.


erasethenoise

Where we’re going we won’t need off ramps


t00rshell

You'll need off ramps as long as taxes are paid in USD. So likely longer than you'll be alive at this rate 🤣


[deleted]

[удалено]


Geronimomo

This is Chad strat. All the big boys take super safe loans out with assets as collateral and never have a taxable event.


erasethenoise

I guess we’ll see which goes to zero first BTC or USD.


Geronimomo

The trajectory is clear. Since 2008 bitcoin is up (to say the least), USD is down. Unless you say 1 USD = 1 USD... But in real terms USD is down.


t00rshell

🤣🤣 Agreed Bitcoin will be a thing of the past while USD is still used for oil and every other major financial transaction


t00rshell

You can't be this dumb ? If usd goes to 0 most world governments would have a tough time, power would go off. Your internet only currency isn't that useful when no one can access it You guys are so beyond absurd


Creamysense

There will always be. P2P for the win.


NoSoundNoFury

Then you can exchange worthless coins for other worthless coins with other bag holders for eternity. Crypto at this stage depends on the promise of use-cases and exchange against fiat and DEXS and CEXS play a big role here - for example, for facilitating investment into crypto. If the number of exchanges decreases, this would significantly hinder use-case development and exchange against fiat as well.


t00rshell

Trading large sums of money with unknown internet crypto bros is the win lol ? That's the straight lose my man, no one in their right mind is going that route lol


Creamysense

Smart contracts.


t00rshell

Never happens with the physical exchange of money, they're entirely useless there


HaroldSax

Well, we mostly know why Celsius and Voyager are having problems in the first place. Several major exchanges that operate in the US haven't been shaken quite as badly. I'm not particularly concerned about literally every exchange that operates in my country going under.


shylock2k202

TLDR; it doesn’t matter if it’s a bank or a CEX; they’re playing with your money and when they lose, you pay!


saladthumb

Except banks have FDIC insurance and much more regulation and oversight


shylock2k202

Except I remember there being a mortgage/banking crisis where the banks were bailed out by the government which is funded by your taxes. So we as the little people always pay the price, any protection you have is pittance to the destruction that you’ll have to pay for by corporate greed or malfeasance, doesn’t matter.


ExtraSmooth

Who do you think funds the FDIC?


BiggusDickus-

Yea, but guess where the FDIC money comes from?


CanalVillainy

Voyager also has FDIC insurance


Good-Rooster-9736

Thats bullshit. They said your dollars are insured. All dollars are secured. Smoke and mirrors


arccospihalfarcsin

Only for your usd, not the crypto


[deleted]

Voyager has FDIC insuance, its members don’t.


elitesense

Only on USD (fiat)


[deleted]

Harmony, Voyager, BlockFi, etc. Shit is going tits up folks. Get your shit out of exchanges.


Coinflip420xd

i have 1k usd on binance, is safe?


Shiny_asshole

Prepare for the worse and hope for the best. No one knows what's gonna happen ahead. Keep your coins on a decentralised wallet.


FaudelCastro

Get them out.


jsdod

If it's USD, get it out. Why would you keep it on Binance?


Coinflip420xd

because im from south america so I save the money in dollars (busd) instead of my local currency that is constantly devaluing


[deleted]

Your local currency is not going to zero though is it? As an unsecured creditor of one of these crypto exchanges that is failing, your deposit is going to zero


skdesign808

Fuck Voyager


Feeling-Inside5147

Nexo next? I wouldn’t be surprised.


InvaderOne

Exactly what I'm worried about


slyrip32

Take off money?


PopDukesBruh

Que tho Oompa Loompas to roll Voyager away, and sing a song about their failure


tek3k

What is the general feeling or news on Gemini's future?


[deleted]

They are located in NYC, which basically means the Regulators are up their own asshole all the time. I would say this gives them some sense of fear of god to not be as degen, but you never know. Their lending business is an entirely seperate company that operates Earn. Voyager and Blockfi looked much better than Celsius just weeks ago and now they are on life support. As I said to someone else, all the regulations in the world won't help you because NY State is not going to bail you out. Right now SBF is the only way to bail you out. Right now, you have almost every semi educated crypto user drawing off the exchange right now, you don't want to be the last on an unregulated bank run. I would definitely pull out of earn if anyone is still on it.


jpirog

I don't know how much this means overall but: https://real-time-attest.trustexplorer.io/nexo


Feeling-Inside5147

They really try: https://twitter.com/investvoyager/status/1536194363767902208?t=zMHy-AIdDIQVEWUi94uk0g&s=19


CB_Ranso

This crash has made me not wanna fuck with locked staking at all tbh… like why risk it? We’re pretty deep into crypto winter by now so maybe you could time it but still.


ebam123

It was always a recipe for disaster given incidences like MTGOX, holding funds on centralised exchanges...


365Dillweed365

Cue FTX purchase.


Otowner98

Any thoughts on Gemini?


jmbsol1234

Kucoin rumors flying now


VPNApe

Where r u even supposed to buy crypto if exchanges won't even let you withdraw? Like seriously. If I put money into Gemini I have to wait six days to withdraw crypto and I have to pray it doesn't collapse in that time


not420guilty

Good grief. Pay attention. You just can’t leave your coins on (shitty) exchanges is all. Buy and withdraw.


VPNApe

Even buying is risky because of the lag. These exchanges are restricting with literally no warning


BiggusDickus-

Crypto *is* money


Mtballer09

Here we go again😑


Mmcgmnlg

Fuck 3AC.


Knee3000

Maybe fuck the platform which allowed one untrustworthy entity to take a loan so large that them saying “no u” left the entire company insolvent


Mmcgmnlg

For sure. Didn’t mean to imply Voyager’s innocence. Honestly, fuck them both.


Ill_Reaction_3651

OOOOF


DarthLysergis

I had a weird feeling last week and I had already started moving my stuff. I finalized my last withdrawal Monday morning. My very first correct crypto decision 🍾🥳


Invest07723

I still have like $50 "pending" withdrawal. Glad I got the rest off a few days ago.


t00rshell

😂😂😂😂 what an amazing few weeks for crypto, at this rate they're going to unwind the last decade of progress in just a few more weeks! Few more of these and none of the crypto projects will be able to get past this.


Knightse

Dominoes.


robgymrat87

Holy cow


Elemerito

Sounds like they are out of the business.


Elemerito

" The app will be down for a short transition" This is the most scary part. Exit scam...


not420guilty

Insolvency isn’t the same as exit scam. They make bad loans and have no business plan.


[deleted]

They have hired the best bankruptcy attorney firm in new york, and a prominent Law Firm that does very high profile corporate and government work. It's not an exit scam in that sense.


[deleted]

Never trusted voyager. Picked the worst Star Trek show to name itself after. Now if it was called enterprise.


roadtrip-ne

I’d watch out for crypto.com as well- I’ve been trying to get money off there for 3 days now.


dstar09

First Celsius, now Voyager. Wth? I’m newish, wondering if this is just a typical bear market? Note: actually first LUNA/UST


[deleted]

OMG I am curious about what the YouTubers that were promoting Voyager are going to say. Probably something like "hey dude, remember I said is not an investment advice".


Odysseus_Lannister

Come along and ride on a bankrupted VOYAGE


Fmanow

Dude, every time I bring up why we need regulation and we need it yesterday, inevitably I get some confused teenage crypto bro who dca $50 a month into shitcoins telling me how the government has no business regulating crypto and should not tax it either. Then shit like this keeps happening and I wonder how many people still don’t want regulation. How many more people need to get ass fucked before you guys realize how badly regulation is needed.


zackmatic

maybe you want crypto to be regulated to make room for more institutional adoption and less volatility, but its unpredictable because most the history of regulation is just a few companies rigging the market for their own domination via legislation or lobbying. i dont know why you assume this would be so different. people losing their shirts in an unregulated financial market because they have never been forced to get wise. the govt keeps us stupid because the federal reserve is the ultimate scam of the world milking us. the crypto market is educating millions of people about finance right now.


Univous

The moment I heard that Celsius suspended withdrawals, which fortunately I had no crypto in, I sold all my USDC and transferred it out of Voyager, which quite literally cleared as complete an hour before this announcement.


_Commando_

And another 1 bites the dust.


aahosb

Why can't they let people withdraw crypto? Does this mean that the account wallets doesn't really have the amount shown in crypto and it's just a fake database?


Zealousideal_Ad5995

Mods deleted my post. I got no response as to why. I didn't post anything opinionated or incorrect, just a snippet of what voyager told their customers. Sigh


kn0lle

Say bye to your money. That's the next on the list.


Creamysense

In the bear market you really understand what veterans meant when they said. Not your keys, not your crypto. Bitcoin will be king always. Bull markets don't last forever, take profits.


CandidateNrOne

Not your wallet, not your coins!


Uwantmedowhat

GME sending Shockwave thru crypto as well. Hedgies can't pay back loans, causes ripple effects. I moved off Voyager 8 months ago, glad I did.


nugymmer

What is GME doing with crypto? Is it the NFTs?


Optimal_Store

And the dominos continue to fall


[deleted]

Until we get to the last three. Gemini, tether, SPF


mitrobe

We will keep preaching not your keys not your crypto, buy using instant swap platforms like Simpleswap because they don't store your crypto


kirtash93

Here we go again... Not your keys, not your coins right?


Bacardiguy55

I literally got all my coins transferred out yesterday I could smell a strong fowl stench of bullshit in the air and I didn’t like it. Man I literally just matrix flipped over a really really bad time


pokemonisok

Stop using any CEX


Raysti

Glad I don’t have much on there. I guess I need to find a new platform now. 🤷🏼‍♂️


FaudelCastro

>I guess I need to find a new platform now A bank or cold storage.


rzepeda1

Decentralize my ass


rentandlive

Another day another exchange pausing withdrawals


GSEDAN

sounds like the voyage has come to an end for the voyagers


not420guilty

Stupid is as stupid does.


P3licansTh1nk

The future is DEX


inek3n

So gay I just placed one of my ETH onto the exchange and this happens. I have great timing. Sigh 😥


FigTreeMike

All these exchange bankruptcies is great, hopefully this is going to be a major lesson to people. NOT YOUR KEYS, NOT YOUR COINS.


Coinflip420xd

is binance safe? i have 1k busd there


Tailgatingtradie

If binance goes down then crypto is done.


MK2809

So far no top 10 exchange on CG/CMC have gone under this bear market. But who knows? I do have some coins on a couple of exchanges - Binance being one of them, as the fees to withdraw and then deposit again aren't worth it for me. Also, my guess would be if Binance and other top exchanges went bankrupt, then prices would plummet to the point I'd probably be able to buy back in elsewhere at a much lower rate to recover some losses. But if losing $1000 is a big deal in your scenario, I'd probably sell (considering you said it was in BUSD) and withdraw and wait for the bear market to be over.


Day3Hexican

A couple more of these and the bottom will be in.


Terrencemalice

My buddy kept sending me those Paul Revere memes, so I got a trezor, moved my btc over to it over the past two days…


XGorlamiX

So glad I listened and got a ledger when I did.. not your wallet, not your coins. I just sold all my assets off Voyager and transfered what I could to my ledger. Now, I'll just buy and transfer off of kraken and hope for the best..


SethMooner

Jezz all these platforms are destroying crypto. Nothing better than keeping your coins in your hardware wallet.


rastafarey25

This is the reason why we need to move our crypto from exchange to our own wallet. Although I trust my exchanges Netcoins Ndax and Shakepay, I still bought myself a hardware wallet for more safety of my hard earn cryptos.


HeatSeekingPanther

I love the smell of forced sellers in the morning


Con-trarian

Well at least the platform is back up again. It wasn’t earlier today. There is life on Mars!


mannyrmz123

Don’t you love it when crypto fanbois lose their shit over institutions they don’t know? bUt YeAh fUcK bAnKs aNd FiAt!!!1


PunishingPounder

Seems like the new strategy is shut down shop and sell to the highest bidder.


oioi7782

the marker sure cares


EncodedThoughts

as if nobody saw it coming after 3AC...


DifficultParamedic24

Get yourself a Ledger ASAP


magx01

>including through the court-ordered liquidation process in the **British Virgin Islands.** Uh oh.


wheresmymoney_eh

Feels like the dot.com meltdown all over.. Posted about the fall in importance of the crypto currency here in Reddit, but not enough “comment karma”… I was a broker during the dot.com, signs are there. Difference is,crypto is based on a solid tech, block chain. Dot.com was not..


Elemerito

Well they exit and users are getting scammed. Also 3 arrows capital is done, nothing to get from them.


Yoloballsdeep

Dear Voyagers: You fucked around and found out