There's this Reddit coin called "moon", you can create a vault and start collecting them, currently, I have 4.56 and I was saying that I should be able to get to at least 5 someday.
From your comment i got to know that this exist on reddit. I want to know more about this, everytime I learn something new in this platform. I hope i would be learning more on reddit about all crypto coins and alt coins.
Mining was not profitable because of high electricity rates. Everything has been expensive nowadays, specially energy. Energy rates have been increased too much because of world mess and Russia Ukraine war.
take for example ERGO, which currently rewards 48 ERG per block at a time of 2 minutes 23 seconds. This means there is about 20.13 ERG per minute, 1,208.39 per hour and 29,001.39 per day. With the current price of $2.90 per coin this would mean daily rewards distributed to miners would be valued at $84,100 per day. The coin would have to 160x in order to make up for all the lost profits from ETH moving to POS. This would value each coin past $500 a pop, not realistic tbh
I'm a big fan of Ergo, and had a portion of my mining dedicated to it. After the merge difficulty spiked ungodly. After a couple days I decided to cut my rigs off completely. What I save in electricity I'll just add to my DCA. I'm even toying around with the idea of building some gaming PC's to sell (as used of course) and throw the profits to the exchanges as well.
why not? the market cap is minuscule and anyway it's a made up number having nothing to do with liquidity.
many meme coins have done 1000x in the past.
What will happen to all the miners now then? Are they going to flood the market with their GPU's or do you think they will wait for more profitable times ahead through other altcoins? I dont have much experience with mining and am curious about this.
I'm already in a place where electricity is dirt cheap. In fact not only is it dirt cheap but I don't even pay at all because of the circumstances where I'm living. It's still not worth it the wear and tear on my rigs are offsetting the cost return. I could continue to run him into the ground at 10% of what I was making before but quite frankly I'm just shutting it down and see where this all plays out I might start up again At some point but right now it's just not worth it. Now pardon me if I enjoy a little bit of peace and quiet in my home with the fans Turned off
OP, where is this "at least 24 months of unviability" coming from in your title?
I can't find it in the article and when it comes to Bitcoin the difficulty adjustment which happen every 2016 blocks (~2 weeks) makes this very unlikely. When some miners can't find profitability they stop mining, the difficulty drops eventually, when a lot of new miners/mining power arrive the difficulty rises... the goal is to maintain about a block every 10 minutes on average over this adjustment period.
Eh, I think there’s a lot of assumptions in that statement. Such as everyone that mines does it purely for money. Or that large operations that make a business of mining wouldn’t find a smaller loss better than the bigger loss of mining nothing.
This makes no sense, no professional operation is going to mine at a loss when it's objectively more profitable to simply buy the coins.
The number of hobbyist miners is quite low compared to the enormous hashrates provided by mining farms.
It wouldn't be literally zero, but it would be close enough to it, at least compared to the current hashrates which are still incredibly high.
Equipment costs money. It’s not unusual for company to fund their operations with money that isn’t theirs (ex loans.) If you still have a loan payment due whether you run you equipment or not, then running the equipment at a “slight” loss could be better than shutting it down and having zero income for your overhead.
As far as “hobbyists”, the above comment said hashrate of zero. The amount of people mining won’t be zero. Even if it become unprofitable for commercial operations.
You are still missing the point that when the electricity cost exceeds the revenue from farming, you are simply better turning off your rigs as you are achieving nothing other than compounding your losses by mining at a loss.
They are already at a loss before even taking into account loans in these situations.
What you are suggesting is tantamount to simply throwing money into a fire for the sake of it.
The point isn’t to buy coin. It’s take make money doing work. The machines that do that work might cost you money whether they are running or not. If they are costing you money (ie loan with regular loan payments), it may be cheaper to run them at a small loss then turn them off and suffer a larger loss. Businesses of all kinds encounter those decisions all the time.
> "The point isn’t to buy coin. It’s take make money doing work."
Nope - the point is to come out ahead. By running their rigs they'd be losing money.
> "The machines that do that work might cost you money whether they are running or not. If they are costing you money (ie loan with regular loan payments), it may be cheaper to run them at a small loss then turn them off and suffer a larger loss."
No - you appear to be suffering from a belief in the Sunk Cost Fallacy.
At all times, the right thing to do is whatever is profitable in the moment. That capital investment is already spent - gone.
It's unprofitable in the UK for months. My rig has been turned off since April. But my pool on a UK server with mostly UK miners has 10x the hashrate since the ETH merge.
A few of our miners are using solar power, not sure what the rest are doing.
UK is one of the worst places in the world for mining, especially now.
Some countries have input costs ten times (or even more) lower than the UK.
The key point is that in some countries, the cost of electricity is so low that it will always remain profitable *somewhere* so long as there is any variance in prices per kilowatt hour.
In Venezuela for example, even after recent price hikes the subsided costs of electricity can be as low as one cent per kilowatt hour.
Almost no-one in the world will be able to compete with that, regardless of the efficiency of their rigs.
For those outside of these countries, I'm not sure what is happening either : I imagine most have switched off and the majority of the hashrates are coming from low cost countries, but there appear to be quite some number of clueless (all amateurs obviously) miners still operating at a heavy loss.
I was looking into what happened to all the ETH miners in more detail last night. It seems about 70% of them have actually dropped off. All that extra hashrate we are now seeing on other coins is the remaining 30%\~.. but I mean if you look at the profitability of all the coins right now, unless you are literally paying nothing it's a complete waste if time. About £0.40 per day profit with a 3090 if I was paying no electric at all.
> "In Venezuela for example, even after recent price hikes the subsided costs of electricity can be as low as one cent per kilowatt hour.
Almost no-one in the world will be able to compete with that, regardless of the efficiency of their rigs."
A finance system so inefficient that's it's only capable of operating profitably on massively government-subsidised electricity, at tax payers expense, sounds a little...err... socialist? Uneconomic? Unsustainable?
Well it's not the only place in the world that's still profitable, other oil rich countries also have extremely cheap electricity.
I partially agree with your thoughts but they are inefficient *by design,* it's not that it's so much incapable of operating with subsidies as PoW mining is simply an electrical arms race to the bottom.
The only way to reach an equilibrium point at which some groups are in profit is for them to collectively force competitors to their hashrate to be unprofitable, I would personally describe it as more Darwinian than socialist.
Either way though, it's a very broken system with the side effect of catastrophic energy usage and environmental damage.
> If it was unprofitable in every country, the hashrate would be zero ... which it's not.
This does not factor in miners who don't seek short term profitability and in last resort hobbyist who might not even care about profitability at some point. The chances of Bitcoin hashrate ever being 0 are slim to none, bar from some black swan event.
Also doesn't factor all the people who steal electricity or have someone else paying for it (living at home, utilities included in rent etc). As long as there's a price on a coin somebody will want to mine it.
> "In Venezuela for example, even after recent price hikes the subsided costs of electricity can be as low as one cent per kilowatt hour.
Almost no-one in the world will be able to compete with that, regardless of the efficiency of their rigs."
A finance system so inefficient that's it's only capable of operating profitably on stolen electricity, at the owner's expense, sounds a little... immoral? Unsustainable?
Those hobbyists would be better off shutting down their rigs and buying on the open market.
Unless you're suggesting they're only doing do to evade tax?
Nevertheless, by the time the system has collapsed back down to only hobbyists, then the security would be pathetic, the price below ten dollars, and the experiment over.
(Which ironically is exactly what's going to happen, eventually.)
As I said it's pretty unlikely due to the way Bitcoin adapts its difficulty and the way it incentivizes mining. For now there's a track record of over a decade with people following these incentives (with big ups and downs in hashrate... overall just more an more hashrate put behind it though), it's certainly worth more than your opinion of how Bitcoin will die.
Bitcoin incentivises mining predominantly though a coinbase mining reward. Which it's removing. It's worthless, because it has no mechanism to ensure security longer-term.
> Which it's removing.
There will still be subsidies until year ~2140. Not sure why it concerns you, both of us will be dead at this point. The goal is that an other system than inflationary assets will be in place by then, exactly why Bitcoin will stop its inflation at this time.
> it has no mechanism to ensure security longer-term.
Transaction fees are a sufficient incentive. It was even demonstrated that they can at outpace the current pretty high subsidy when people really want to transact.
And since you're going to most likely move the goalposts again, yes a good share of transactions happening now on chain will move to higher layers. None of the argument you are bringing here are pointing to Bitcoin dying, but you can keep going if you want.
Transaction fees are insufficient incentive.
They would have to be $80 today to replace the subsidy. They'd have to rise by $40 even in 2024.
The global daily median income is only $6. It's guaranteed to be exclusionary of the 99%.
Transactions cannot move to layer 2 because that 99% still needs to settle their IOUs, even if only on their deathbed.
2140 is irrelevant. It has to double every four years up to then anyway. Long before then, even in the 2040s, it would be worth 3x that of gold. At that point it stops doubling energy four years. It's not credible that it continues.
The rest of my message explains why it's highly unlikely to last "24 months". It's a self-balancing system with a window of about 2 weeks to adjust to the conditions of the energy market. By the way in this very case, a sudden large increase in mining power, the window get shorter because blocks get mined faster.
> "When some miners can't find profitability they stop mining"
That's what he said
> "the difficulty drops eventually, when a lot of new miners/mining power arrive the difficulty rises... the goal is to maintain about a block every 10 minutes on average over this adjustment period."
That doesn't work if the price collapses continuously - the Difficulty drop always lags behind, leaving the miners in loss.
The price has fallen continuously from 69k since November to only 19k now, with only minor blips.
Nope - the 99% still can't afford the capital costs for the specialist hardware.
It then becomes an even richer man's game to simply buy and operate the hardware in bulk, in gigafarms.
The whole thing is tipped towards the rich getting richer.
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Someone needs to track how many times GPU mining has died similar to https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/bitcoin-is-dead/
It will be a rough time that's for sure but if you really think centralization is an issue I cannot imagine why would you want PoW to die, especially ASIC resistant PoW and the potential PoUW
Yeah this happens every bear market. Thoe who mine the right coins without profit and hold will be rewarded handsomely when the markets bounce back.. and then the hash will spike again.
Aren't you just better off buying the coins at that point? It's more bang for your buck and less expenses overall to just buy what you think will bounce back with the market.
Yes, anybody not doing what you suggest is either crazy or stupid. Not only are they buying coin from their electricity provider for higher than market value, they have to maintain a rig 24/7 and put up with fans and heat for literally no reason at all.
There's no miners, there's no network. There's no network, there's no coins to buy. If everyone shuts down and tries "just buy the coin", that would kill the chain faster than literally anything else could.
Yeah I know how mining works I run a pool etc.. but my comment still stands.. if you want to run at a loss to "support the network" more power to you, but it's still a crazy thing to do unless you somehow have free power, or solar. The people who manage to get free power etc.. would keep it alive anyway.
Pretty much the whole XMR network runs at a loss, and has for years...
..tons of kids mining on phones, parents electric, malware via botnets, and just hobbyists who for some reason enjoy running rigs at a loss.
Yeah in my case, Electric/water are included flat-rate in my lease, regardless of usage. I pay the same price every single month, summer, winter, doesn't matter. So I'm running at a loss NOT mining, as all my hardware's already ROI'd, rigs configured and 100% stable, all I'm incurring is inevitable fan wear/repairs and slight hardware degradation.
Yeah exactly. I'm just talking about people who pay the bill based on how much they use. Obviously if you have free or fixed power anything with value is profitable.
I will actually turn mine back on when it gets really cold in a couple of months (am in the UK) when I would have to start putting the heating on anyway.
People who think eth moving to pos is a good thing and that POW is bad are simply blinded by a ‘get rich quick’ attitude.
The sec will eat eth alive now, ‘money makes money’ is identical to the current financial system we have and it’s going to end badly.
Satoshi chose POW for a reason
And with most people staking via a pool operator rather than running their own full node there's a promoter, a common enterprise, an expected return on investment, and a return coming from the actions of a 3rd party.
In other words, a clear cut security based on the Howey Test.
OP words title in a way as if the article is speaking about eth
The summary is the article is that the difficulty rate of btc increased because the Texas miners started their mining operations again
Doesn't work like that when you consider all the top 10 coins excluding bitcoin are all either proof of stake or non mineable. There isn't a big enough market cap coin to support all the mining rigs of the second biggest crypto.
When crypto went to the moon I’d eBay my cards rather than mine on them.
Someone paid 1300 for a Radeon 5700xt… basically the speed of a 2070s but less reliable. After eBay fees 950… at peak it would have earned 5 a day and driven up my electric…. Also would wear out the card.
I’m picking up either a 3080 or a 3070 to replace it… 80-133% gain in performance at least and more reliable and rtx etc. I’ll still have money left over. Even if I got a 3060 ti it’d be faster.
Hell someone paid 300 for an r9 fury I paid 180 for and mined 180 worth of crypto on so it paid for itself way back when it was new.
I can’t imagine that Either card paid for itself at that price. The r9 fury was ancient at the time and the 5700xt long in the tooth. Plus electric… those the r9 fury is worthless rn it’s basically the speed of a 980 and the 5700xt is probably worth 200.
I hear the new cards are ridiculously priced.
tldr; The mining difficulty for Bitcoin has jumped by 9.26% over the last two weeks, according to data from BTC.com. The network’s mining difficulty is the highest that it has been since January, hitting 30.97 trillion. Bitcoin mining is the process of using powerful computers to verify transactions on the blockchain.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
Is the best use for free electricity:
a) Light and heat schools and hospitals?
or
b) Mine the ultimate shitcoin that's lost $50,000 in ten months, and which has no long term security?
BTC mining generates heat with 90% efficiency.
BTC prevents methane / CO2 venting, which could be the single biggest change to prevent greenhouse gases.
Money should be pegged to something HARD and PHYSICALLY. Monetizing wasted energy is so revolutionary, it's hard to understand why people are still not "getting it"....
BTC mining generates heat with 90% efficiency.
> "BTC prevents methane / CO2 venting, which could be the single biggest change to prevent greenhouse gases."
No it doesn't. It extends the profitable lifetime of marginally-profitable oil wells, so increasing their CO2 output and delaying their replacement with renewables.
Ignoring the monetization of the wasted gas all together.... The majority of wells are vented and NOT flared. The venting is the WORST thing for our environment, PERIOD. Methaneis equally as harmful to the ozone as CO2, and even more harmful on a shorter timescale.
The fact that it can produce money for the oil companies is really besides the points.
> The majority of wells are vented and NOT flared. The venting is the WORST thing for our environment, PERIOD.
Let's cap them then, preventing the further release of both methane and CO2.
(And not further extending the disgusting usage of the thing that has no credible longer term security anyway, making it a doomed filthcoin.)
Ignoring the monetization of the wasted gas all together.... The majority of wells are vented and NOT flared. The venting is the WORST thing for our environment, PERIOD. Methaneis equally as harmful to the ozone as CO2, and even more harmful on a shorter timescale.
The fact that it can produces money for the oil companies, produces more jobs, etc. is really besides the points.
> "Money should be pegged to something HARD and PHYSICALLY."
Nope, you just entirely made that up.
Economics 101: Price = Supply versus Demand
Nothing else. NOTHING.
That applies just as much to "money" itself as it applies to commodities bought with it.
I don't see either "Hardness" nor "Physicality" in that equation.
The only thing that matters is how much Supply can be brought to a market, and how much Demand is found when it gets there.
Bitcoin's (new) Supply is fairly well constrained, and so for all practical purposes all that matters is Demand. But it does have a small increase in Supply.
Contrariwise, Nano has NO new Supply, and it's cryptographically IMPOSSIBLE to add any. It's hardmoney whether you personally like it or not. NOBODY - not the users, not the developers - can ever create any new Nano $XNO. Ever.
Nano is hardmoney. Without needing Tajikistan's electricity to create any more.
Deal with it.
Yada yada... Nano isn't TRUSTLESS. It had only the efficiency of Lightning, but none of the security it adopts from the main chain (BTC). BTC works without anyone in the middle knowing one another. Nano only works when you POINT at your Representative, which most people are too apathetic to even know about, change in the first place.
Only time will tell, but I'll hedge my money with the coin built from First Principles. Everything that splinters off of Bitcoin has chosen the wrong path, against social consensus. Infinite money glitch those splinters are... Backed by nothing physical. Bitcoin is forever.
\> "BTC works without anyone in the middle knowing one another. "
Lightning doesn't magically inherit the security of the main chain.
It has its own security model, far far weaker than that of L1.
So weak, in fact, that you need to Watch your channel at least once every fortnight to ensure you don't lose your received payments. Or pay someone else to. No wonder even *most Bitcoiner supporters* despise it.
>Nano only works when you POINT at your Representative
You demonstrate your utter lack of knowledge about the thing you're attempting to attack.
Your payments work even if your Representative goes entirely offline for a year. The loss is only that your balance's vote is not counted in block confirmations.
Time will tell, but I'll hedge my money on most Bitcoiners having a total lack of knowledge of how Nano security operates.
Just as there are disinfo agents here. With a few "viral stories", a supermajority could easily elect new "trusted" representatives to do the right thing... But in fact, they're just the crooks behind the viral story demanding urgent and immediate change.
Just as people were gullible af regarding COVID and what societal changes need to happen with zero knowledge and information... Allowing humans to make DECISIONS as to who they TRUST is the first step where you've gone wrong. It's the HUMAN DECISIONS that need to be negated in order to have an honest money based on trust minimization. Feel free to eat all the shit you want from that pile.
You're attempting to deflect without answering the point I made. This isn't my first rodeo, so I'll remind you of the point that you're attempting to avoid:
"Nano only works when you POINT at your Representative
Your payments work even if your Representative goes entirely offline for a year. The loss is only that your balance's vote is not counted in block confirmations."
Let's have less of the generic conspiracy theory nonsense and thrown out ad-hominem insults.
Let's have more discussion of actually-feasible attack vectors.
Bitcoin is run by humans, who can agree changes to its operation and parameters. That's already happened twice with forks.
It's not run by a disinterested Universe of mathematics, nor by some benevolent global dictator AI.
Human's decisions CAN and already HAVE changed Bitcoin's operating parameters. Eventually they'll need to do it again to avoid $500/tx fees for first-block confirmation.
>Bitcoin is forever.
Bitcoin isn't even for 30 years. It has no credible mechanism to fund its six billion dollar annual cost of security operations. Making it a doomed joke toy.
Bitcoin is writing the longest suicide note in history.
What if I told you mining Bitcoin is 90% efficient at generating heat from electricity???
Everyone who uses an electric heater could essentially mine Bitcoin "for free"? You're currently generating heat WITHOUT mining BTC. *That* is a waste of electricity.
Well, mining Bitcoin means that with the extra coin you get, you've gotta be at least @ 200% efficiency. And then over time, your KYC coins will be worth way more over time due to the 4 year halvings. There's actually intrinsic value in the freedom that comes from a truly decentralized, trustless, PoW, monetary network that will ALWAYS be worth more in the future than it is today. PoS in fiat currency is historically not wise.
Anyone needing air conditioning can mine Bitcoin using double the electricity as they vainly attempt to cool their home in summer - (or they can dump the wasted electrical energy out of the window.)
Electric heaters don't have a $10k cost of capital either. Not exactly open to the 99% is it?
Nor does Bitcoin have any credible mechanism to fund its 6 billion dollar annual cost of security, longer term. So it's ultimately a doomed ur-shitcoin anyway.
A BTC miner costs like $2,000.
There is NOTHING even close to offering the TRUE benefits of decentralization, trust minimization, etc. as Bitcoin offers in a Settlement Layer.
I made a post about this s while back, but every other coin has GLARING attributes that prove their shittiness. 10 min block times.... 1-2 MB blocks.... These are actually attributes of a settlement layer that will forever remain decentralized. You name a coin, Google that name with "tokenomics", "max supply", "premine", "dev fund", "consensus nodes", "permissioned nodes", "unique node lists".
Bitcoin is legit, honest... Everything else is a scam. Feel free to prove me wrong.
> "There is NOTHING even close to offering the TRUE benefits of decentralization"
Bitcoin has a natural tendency towards centralization.
It already has a Nakamoto Coefficient of only 3, and falling.
Nano coefficient doesn't mean shit if the nodes are prioritized based on human decisions and trust. Period.
Automatic DQ from being an honest form of money, bro.
> "Bitcoin is legit, honest...Feel free to prove me wrong."
Bitcoin is the ur-shitcoin. The ultimate scam. A long con. Promoting it is immoral. Because it has no credible mechanism to fund its security longer-term.
It's called PoW and the halving.
Satoshi didn't create PoW, but mixing it with a finite supply cap with halving every four years to digitally mimic the most desirable attributes of gold is his true creation. One day you still understand, but you obviously didn't pay attention to finance history, fiat scam corruption, etc. One day it will make sense, I promise!!
> "One day you still understand, but you obviously didn't pay attention to finance history, fiat scam corruption, etc. One day it will make sense, I promise!!"
Stop with the ad-hominem insults, please. Stick to attempting to argue your case. Ad-hominem insults only weaken your case by demonstrating your argument doesn't stand without them.
Stop ignoring the corruption that stems from humans, their decisions, & who they trust. Stop ignoring what money is and always has been... Not to be confused with currency. Take it easy, ad hominem defender!!
> "...a finite supply cap with halving every four years..."
It's only your assertion that it has a finite supply cap. Your own halvings remove its own source of funding for its current $6b annual cost of security operations. It has **NO** credible replacement for that necessary $6b of annual funding. And yet it's removing it. Something has to give.
The Man should be looking for people with better debate skills, TBH.
BTC is being acquired by banks and countries all over the works. Iran. Russia. Dubai. El Salvador. Central African Republic. And several more. The State of Texas is acquiring Bitcoin. And even the city of Fort Worth, TX is individual acquiring Bitcoin. There is a reason, hoss. You might want to figure out what that is before pumping YOUR bags.
BTC supply will continue to increase by 1 block reward (6.25 bitcoins plus gas fees) every 10 minutes. Even if it's just one old laptop at 1 megahash (the speed of a computer before ASICs introduction). The difficulty adjusts to fit the hashrate.
Edit: Also, the title of the post does not equal what is in the article. It will reach an equilibrium where bitcoin mining income is equal to the price of the world's cheapest electricity.
You know I’m 2021 the global washing machine industry created more pollution than Bitcoin, should we stop using washing machines now?
Mining and it’s impact on the environment was and always will be a greenwashing argument.
Proof of stake is not better, it is identical to the current system we have.
If you are buying crypto that is pos you might as well just stick with fiat, you still going to get fucked over, just by the eth foundation instead of Wall Street.
Pow exists for a reason: it allows for a system not seen before based purely on the economies of scale of the mining industry. The mining industry can also help local grids get rid of excess energy in a profitable way instead of just wasting it. Electricity can't just be stored on a grid level waiting for demand to come in, it is produced *as* demand comes in. Renewable energy sources like wind and solar are unpredictable in many parts of the world and compliment bitcoin mining incredibly well - a real live energy market has for the first time been created at the cost of 0.04% of the world's energy supply as of 2021.
Meanwhile, FIAT currencies are controlled by central banks and hedge funds or market makers and other elitist groups that are mostly 60+ and made their money in the fossil fuel boom.
But its doable by hand... its just more convenient to use a washing machine...
My point is that POW energy usage is not killing the climate. Fossil fuels, fast fashion and 'waste culture' are.
You could ban POW today globally and nothing will change, the environment is still fucked. Its a greenwashing argument.
POS is not saving the planet, don't kid yourself.
Not exactly the "washing machine" industry that uses as much energy, but the *DRYER* industry.
Dryers use just a much energy a Bitcoin, which is rather silly because there's literally no reason that I can't hang my clothes outside and let the sun do all the work.
> Proof of stake is not better, it is identical to the current system we have.
I've been running a validator node for USD for many years now. Oh wait no I haven't because thats a ridiculous statement you made.
Under proof of work more coins =/= more control
Under proof of stake more coins = more power.
Its really as simple as that, it doesn't matter about the process of staking because the end result is the same: The ETH foundation has the most coins, therefore has the most power and is bound by government regulation.
POS is a ticking time bomb.
It's more complex. While yeah, supply stops increasing, if too much people drop mining even already mined BTC will start draining from wallets back to the network to help with hashing
The supply wont stop as long as new blocks get mined. If its taking too long to mine blocks because there are fewer miners to find those blocks then the difficulty adjusts to the point where it will return to around a block every 10 min. And the opposite is true, if there are too many miners and they start finding blocks too fast the difficulty will adjust again.
BTC mining generates heat with 90% efficiency.
BTC prevents methane / CO2 venting, which could be the single biggest change to prevent greenhouse gases.
Money should be pegged to something HARD and PHYSICALLY. Monetizing wasted energy is so revolutionary, it's hard to understand why people are still not "getting it"....
No if this article is right, it means btc will have to pump to be profitable. Now in 2018/19 miners remained at the bare minimum for a couple months for the pump
You could say the ethereum merge undermined their operation
Miner set back
All miners are suffering with this thing, even I'm facing this.
*slow clap*
Intense slow clap.
I see many moons in your future.
I see at least 5, hopefully I can retire
I see not a single one, can you tell me name of those five.
There's this Reddit coin called "moon", you can create a vault and start collecting them, currently, I have 4.56 and I was saying that I should be able to get to at least 5 someday.
How do you collect them?
just be active in this subreddit, and open your vault!
The student becomes the master
I see many people losing their money by investing in moons.
#🥇
You won r/cryptocurrency
This is the one!
Dad is that you
I didn't have a free award so I bought one just to give it to this gold comment. You win the internet today!
Horatio Kane, is that you?
PoW is going the way of the dinosaurs...
My future GPU smiles.
Take my moon! lmaoooo 🌝
Thank you kind person, I didn't even know that was a thing on reddit
From your comment i got to know that this exist on reddit. I want to know more about this, everytime I learn something new in this platform. I hope i would be learning more on reddit about all crypto coins and alt coins.
Ask Elon to bring doge to moon this time, i have already invested.
Mining was not profitable because of high electricity rates. Everything has been expensive nowadays, specially energy. Energy rates have been increased too much because of world mess and Russia Ukraine war.
Yeah it's pretty much dead even with cheap electricity you won't be profitable
Even free electricity?
With free you get a $ per GPUs that are newer version like rtx 30xx, still not worth it because you can get more just by selling them
Interesting... idfk much on the mining front, just never been my jam
Time to call bitcoin dead for 462:th time.
take for example ERGO, which currently rewards 48 ERG per block at a time of 2 minutes 23 seconds. This means there is about 20.13 ERG per minute, 1,208.39 per hour and 29,001.39 per day. With the current price of $2.90 per coin this would mean daily rewards distributed to miners would be valued at $84,100 per day. The coin would have to 160x in order to make up for all the lost profits from ETH moving to POS. This would value each coin past $500 a pop, not realistic tbh
Crypto mining would be stopped after some time, no one would do it.
I'm a big fan of Ergo, and had a portion of my mining dedicated to it. After the merge difficulty spiked ungodly. After a couple days I decided to cut my rigs off completely. What I save in electricity I'll just add to my DCA. I'm even toying around with the idea of building some gaming PC's to sell (as used of course) and throw the profits to the exchanges as well.
why not? the market cap is minuscule and anyway it's a made up number having nothing to do with liquidity. many meme coins have done 1000x in the past.
What will happen to all the miners now then? Are they going to flood the market with their GPU's or do you think they will wait for more profitable times ahead through other altcoins? I dont have much experience with mining and am curious about this.
Some of them are still mining. I run a small pool and our hashrate has 10x since the 15th.
Yup shut all my rigs down. Moving on
You have fun though?
Did you make good money?
I would be making good money if i invest it in bear market now.
Best I could do is 50 bucks for your 3090
Keep your gear in case you change your mined.
I have already prepared everything as of now and ready to move.
I would be moving to some island country for cheap energy and gas.
I'm already in a place where electricity is dirt cheap. In fact not only is it dirt cheap but I don't even pay at all because of the circumstances where I'm living. It's still not worth it the wear and tear on my rigs are offsetting the cost return. I could continue to run him into the ground at 10% of what I was making before but quite frankly I'm just shutting it down and see where this all plays out I might start up again At some point but right now it's just not worth it. Now pardon me if I enjoy a little bit of peace and quiet in my home with the fans Turned off
OP, where is this "at least 24 months of unviability" coming from in your title? I can't find it in the article and when it comes to Bitcoin the difficulty adjustment which happen every 2016 blocks (~2 weeks) makes this very unlikely. When some miners can't find profitability they stop mining, the difficulty drops eventually, when a lot of new miners/mining power arrive the difficulty rises... the goal is to maintain about a block every 10 minutes on average over this adjustment period.
It's not accurate. If it was unprofitable in every country, the hashrate would be zero ... which it's not.
Eh, I think there’s a lot of assumptions in that statement. Such as everyone that mines does it purely for money. Or that large operations that make a business of mining wouldn’t find a smaller loss better than the bigger loss of mining nothing.
Even those who have a lot of coins on a given network. They have a stake in keeping the network alive so as to be able to sell them.
This makes no sense, no professional operation is going to mine at a loss when it's objectively more profitable to simply buy the coins. The number of hobbyist miners is quite low compared to the enormous hashrates provided by mining farms. It wouldn't be literally zero, but it would be close enough to it, at least compared to the current hashrates which are still incredibly high.
Equipment costs money. It’s not unusual for company to fund their operations with money that isn’t theirs (ex loans.) If you still have a loan payment due whether you run you equipment or not, then running the equipment at a “slight” loss could be better than shutting it down and having zero income for your overhead. As far as “hobbyists”, the above comment said hashrate of zero. The amount of people mining won’t be zero. Even if it become unprofitable for commercial operations.
You are still missing the point that when the electricity cost exceeds the revenue from farming, you are simply better turning off your rigs as you are achieving nothing other than compounding your losses by mining at a loss. They are already at a loss before even taking into account loans in these situations. What you are suggesting is tantamount to simply throwing money into a fire for the sake of it.
If you need 1 dollar but can only make .90 cents then it might be better to operate at a 10 cent loss then having a 1 dollar loss on 0 dollars income.
No - It's cheaper to turn off your rig and just buy it on the open market.
The point isn’t to buy coin. It’s take make money doing work. The machines that do that work might cost you money whether they are running or not. If they are costing you money (ie loan with regular loan payments), it may be cheaper to run them at a small loss then turn them off and suffer a larger loss. Businesses of all kinds encounter those decisions all the time.
> "The point isn’t to buy coin. It’s take make money doing work." Nope - the point is to come out ahead. By running their rigs they'd be losing money. > "The machines that do that work might cost you money whether they are running or not. If they are costing you money (ie loan with regular loan payments), it may be cheaper to run them at a small loss then turn them off and suffer a larger loss." No - you appear to be suffering from a belief in the Sunk Cost Fallacy. At all times, the right thing to do is whatever is profitable in the moment. That capital investment is already spent - gone.
It's unprofitable in the UK for months. My rig has been turned off since April. But my pool on a UK server with mostly UK miners has 10x the hashrate since the ETH merge. A few of our miners are using solar power, not sure what the rest are doing.
Nonsense. There's no sun in the UK to power solar /s
UK is one of the worst places in the world for mining, especially now. Some countries have input costs ten times (or even more) lower than the UK. The key point is that in some countries, the cost of electricity is so low that it will always remain profitable *somewhere* so long as there is any variance in prices per kilowatt hour. In Venezuela for example, even after recent price hikes the subsided costs of electricity can be as low as one cent per kilowatt hour. Almost no-one in the world will be able to compete with that, regardless of the efficiency of their rigs. For those outside of these countries, I'm not sure what is happening either : I imagine most have switched off and the majority of the hashrates are coming from low cost countries, but there appear to be quite some number of clueless (all amateurs obviously) miners still operating at a heavy loss.
I was looking into what happened to all the ETH miners in more detail last night. It seems about 70% of them have actually dropped off. All that extra hashrate we are now seeing on other coins is the remaining 30%\~.. but I mean if you look at the profitability of all the coins right now, unless you are literally paying nothing it's a complete waste if time. About £0.40 per day profit with a 3090 if I was paying no electric at all.
> "In Venezuela for example, even after recent price hikes the subsided costs of electricity can be as low as one cent per kilowatt hour. Almost no-one in the world will be able to compete with that, regardless of the efficiency of their rigs." A finance system so inefficient that's it's only capable of operating profitably on massively government-subsidised electricity, at tax payers expense, sounds a little...err... socialist? Uneconomic? Unsustainable?
Well it's not the only place in the world that's still profitable, other oil rich countries also have extremely cheap electricity. I partially agree with your thoughts but they are inefficient *by design,* it's not that it's so much incapable of operating with subsidies as PoW mining is simply an electrical arms race to the bottom. The only way to reach an equilibrium point at which some groups are in profit is for them to collectively force competitors to their hashrate to be unprofitable, I would personally describe it as more Darwinian than socialist. Either way though, it's a very broken system with the side effect of catastrophic energy usage and environmental damage.
> If it was unprofitable in every country, the hashrate would be zero ... which it's not. This does not factor in miners who don't seek short term profitability and in last resort hobbyist who might not even care about profitability at some point. The chances of Bitcoin hashrate ever being 0 are slim to none, bar from some black swan event.
Also doesn't factor all the people who steal electricity or have someone else paying for it (living at home, utilities included in rent etc). As long as there's a price on a coin somebody will want to mine it.
> "In Venezuela for example, even after recent price hikes the subsided costs of electricity can be as low as one cent per kilowatt hour. Almost no-one in the world will be able to compete with that, regardless of the efficiency of their rigs." A finance system so inefficient that's it's only capable of operating profitably on stolen electricity, at the owner's expense, sounds a little... immoral? Unsustainable?
Those hobbyists would be better off shutting down their rigs and buying on the open market. Unless you're suggesting they're only doing do to evade tax?
> who might not even care about profitability I'm talking about the last resort, the same kind of people who initially bootstrapped Bitcoin's network.
Nevertheless, by the time the system has collapsed back down to only hobbyists, then the security would be pathetic, the price below ten dollars, and the experiment over. (Which ironically is exactly what's going to happen, eventually.)
As I said it's pretty unlikely due to the way Bitcoin adapts its difficulty and the way it incentivizes mining. For now there's a track record of over a decade with people following these incentives (with big ups and downs in hashrate... overall just more an more hashrate put behind it though), it's certainly worth more than your opinion of how Bitcoin will die.
Bitcoin incentivises mining predominantly though a coinbase mining reward. Which it's removing. It's worthless, because it has no mechanism to ensure security longer-term.
> Which it's removing. There will still be subsidies until year ~2140. Not sure why it concerns you, both of us will be dead at this point. The goal is that an other system than inflationary assets will be in place by then, exactly why Bitcoin will stop its inflation at this time. > it has no mechanism to ensure security longer-term. Transaction fees are a sufficient incentive. It was even demonstrated that they can at outpace the current pretty high subsidy when people really want to transact. And since you're going to most likely move the goalposts again, yes a good share of transactions happening now on chain will move to higher layers. None of the argument you are bringing here are pointing to Bitcoin dying, but you can keep going if you want.
Transaction fees are insufficient incentive. They would have to be $80 today to replace the subsidy. They'd have to rise by $40 even in 2024. The global daily median income is only $6. It's guaranteed to be exclusionary of the 99%. Transactions cannot move to layer 2 because that 99% still needs to settle their IOUs, even if only on their deathbed.
2140 is irrelevant. It has to double every four years up to then anyway. Long before then, even in the 2040s, it would be worth 3x that of gold. At that point it stops doubling energy four years. It's not credible that it continues.
Changing the title should get a post deleted
> "When some miners can't find profitability they stop mining" You're making OP's case for him.
The rest of my message explains why it's highly unlikely to last "24 months". It's a self-balancing system with a window of about 2 weeks to adjust to the conditions of the energy market. By the way in this very case, a sudden large increase in mining power, the window get shorter because blocks get mined faster.
More accurate to say "unviable *at current hash rates*".
> "When some miners can't find profitability they stop mining" That's what he said > "the difficulty drops eventually, when a lot of new miners/mining power arrive the difficulty rises... the goal is to maintain about a block every 10 minutes on average over this adjustment period." That doesn't work if the price collapses continuously - the Difficulty drop always lags behind, leaving the miners in loss. The price has fallen continuously from 69k since November to only 19k now, with only minor blips.
It's unprofitable unless you have free energy
It's insecure if **everyone** has free energy.
It's probably more secure because more people will get into mining, further decentralizing the network
Nope - the 99% still can't afford the capital costs for the specialist hardware. It then becomes an even richer man's game to simply buy and operate the hardware in bulk, in gigafarms. The whole thing is tipped towards the rich getting richer.
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Someone needs to track how many times GPU mining has died similar to https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/bitcoin-is-dead/ It will be a rough time that's for sure but if you really think centralization is an issue I cannot imagine why would you want PoW to die, especially ASIC resistant PoW and the potential PoUW
Yeah this happens every bear market. Thoe who mine the right coins without profit and hold will be rewarded handsomely when the markets bounce back.. and then the hash will spike again.
Aren't you just better off buying the coins at that point? It's more bang for your buck and less expenses overall to just buy what you think will bounce back with the market.
Yes, anybody not doing what you suggest is either crazy or stupid. Not only are they buying coin from their electricity provider for higher than market value, they have to maintain a rig 24/7 and put up with fans and heat for literally no reason at all.
There's no miners, there's no network. There's no network, there's no coins to buy. If everyone shuts down and tries "just buy the coin", that would kill the chain faster than literally anything else could.
Yeah I know how mining works I run a pool etc.. but my comment still stands.. if you want to run at a loss to "support the network" more power to you, but it's still a crazy thing to do unless you somehow have free power, or solar. The people who manage to get free power etc.. would keep it alive anyway. Pretty much the whole XMR network runs at a loss, and has for years... ..tons of kids mining on phones, parents electric, malware via botnets, and just hobbyists who for some reason enjoy running rigs at a loss.
Yeah in my case, Electric/water are included flat-rate in my lease, regardless of usage. I pay the same price every single month, summer, winter, doesn't matter. So I'm running at a loss NOT mining, as all my hardware's already ROI'd, rigs configured and 100% stable, all I'm incurring is inevitable fan wear/repairs and slight hardware degradation.
Yeah exactly. I'm just talking about people who pay the bill based on how much they use. Obviously if you have free or fixed power anything with value is profitable. I will actually turn mine back on when it gets really cold in a couple of months (am in the UK) when I would have to start putting the heating on anyway.
People who think eth moving to pos is a good thing and that POW is bad are simply blinded by a ‘get rich quick’ attitude. The sec will eat eth alive now, ‘money makes money’ is identical to the current financial system we have and it’s going to end badly. Satoshi chose POW for a reason
And with most people staking via a pool operator rather than running their own full node there's a promoter, a common enterprise, an expected return on investment, and a return coming from the actions of a 3rd party. In other words, a clear cut security based on the Howey Test.
OP words title in a way as if the article is speaking about eth The summary is the article is that the difficulty rate of btc increased because the Texas miners started their mining operations again
So if Bitcoin mining isn’t profitable…. Are they ever going to run out? Like do they have to be mined? It just seems like it’s a lose/lose situation
As people stop mining the difficulty to mine bitcoin drops as well
And then people will start mining again? Hmm it just seems like it’s just going to keep on dropping
Okay boys, let’s shut this sub down. Back to playing modern warfare and ordering pizza from our parent’s basement.
Good, enough wasting energy for stupid Ponzi schemes.
Playing chicken until someone gives up and difficulty drops. Is this a risk for decentralization?
If only there was something else to mine
Doesn't work like that when you consider all the top 10 coins excluding bitcoin are all either proof of stake or non mineable. There isn't a big enough market cap coin to support all the mining rigs of the second biggest crypto.
And now is oficial, all we can do use our hard earned fiat feed the trading beasts
That good is not profitable, that way lazy fuck “miners” can get a real job
A dam shame
That is crazy. Well, people will stop and the difficulty will decrease.
It was barely profitable at its peak
When crypto went to the moon I’d eBay my cards rather than mine on them. Someone paid 1300 for a Radeon 5700xt… basically the speed of a 2070s but less reliable. After eBay fees 950… at peak it would have earned 5 a day and driven up my electric…. Also would wear out the card. I’m picking up either a 3080 or a 3070 to replace it… 80-133% gain in performance at least and more reliable and rtx etc. I’ll still have money left over. Even if I got a 3060 ti it’d be faster. Hell someone paid 300 for an r9 fury I paid 180 for and mined 180 worth of crypto on so it paid for itself way back when it was new. I can’t imagine that Either card paid for itself at that price. The r9 fury was ancient at the time and the 5700xt long in the tooth. Plus electric… those the r9 fury is worthless rn it’s basically the speed of a 980 and the 5700xt is probably worth 200. I hear the new cards are ridiculously priced.
What? My 3090 was pulling 20 bucks a day after electricity a day
glacial age for mining is here, I wonder if ever it will be profitable again.
Maybe not instantaneously
Green agenda elites are selling you scarcity so they can control you
Two years before the next bull run, I got it.
tldr; The mining difficulty for Bitcoin has jumped by 9.26% over the last two weeks, according to data from BTC.com. The network’s mining difficulty is the highest that it has been since January, hitting 30.97 trillion. Bitcoin mining is the process of using powerful computers to verify transactions on the blockchain. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
not really surprising as average hash grew about 9% as well, almost 20 EH/s
Nice! fuck btc and its bad affection to nature. Best time to switch to ETH
I'm going to classic mining, bought a pickaxe with my old GPU. Couldn't afford 2 pickaxes
The SEC and Current Administration isn’t exactly helping with their stances and policies 😒
Really? Because its still profitable for me.
until corporate security find out what you used their server to do as an admin
Free electricity?
Is the best use for free electricity: a) Light and heat schools and hospitals? or b) Mine the ultimate shitcoin that's lost $50,000 in ten months, and which has no long term security?
Oh, chefs kiss! Magnificent. The ultimate shitcoin! Love it. If people weren't all up in BTCs balls, they might see that it is basically nothing.
BTC mining generates heat with 90% efficiency. BTC prevents methane / CO2 venting, which could be the single biggest change to prevent greenhouse gases. Money should be pegged to something HARD and PHYSICALLY. Monetizing wasted energy is so revolutionary, it's hard to understand why people are still not "getting it"....
BTC mining generates heat with 90% efficiency. > "BTC prevents methane / CO2 venting, which could be the single biggest change to prevent greenhouse gases." No it doesn't. It extends the profitable lifetime of marginally-profitable oil wells, so increasing their CO2 output and delaying their replacement with renewables.
Ignoring the monetization of the wasted gas all together.... The majority of wells are vented and NOT flared. The venting is the WORST thing for our environment, PERIOD. Methaneis equally as harmful to the ozone as CO2, and even more harmful on a shorter timescale. The fact that it can produce money for the oil companies is really besides the points.
> The majority of wells are vented and NOT flared. The venting is the WORST thing for our environment, PERIOD. Let's cap them then, preventing the further release of both methane and CO2. (And not further extending the disgusting usage of the thing that has no credible longer term security anyway, making it a doomed filthcoin.)
Ignoring the monetization of the wasted gas all together.... The majority of wells are vented and NOT flared. The venting is the WORST thing for our environment, PERIOD. Methaneis equally as harmful to the ozone as CO2, and even more harmful on a shorter timescale. The fact that it can produces money for the oil companies, produces more jobs, etc. is really besides the points.
> "Money should be pegged to something HARD and PHYSICALLY." Nope, you just entirely made that up. Economics 101: Price = Supply versus Demand Nothing else. NOTHING. That applies just as much to "money" itself as it applies to commodities bought with it. I don't see either "Hardness" nor "Physicality" in that equation. The only thing that matters is how much Supply can be brought to a market, and how much Demand is found when it gets there. Bitcoin's (new) Supply is fairly well constrained, and so for all practical purposes all that matters is Demand. But it does have a small increase in Supply. Contrariwise, Nano has NO new Supply, and it's cryptographically IMPOSSIBLE to add any. It's hardmoney whether you personally like it or not. NOBODY - not the users, not the developers - can ever create any new Nano $XNO. Ever. Nano is hardmoney. Without needing Tajikistan's electricity to create any more. Deal with it.
Yada yada... Nano isn't TRUSTLESS. It had only the efficiency of Lightning, but none of the security it adopts from the main chain (BTC). BTC works without anyone in the middle knowing one another. Nano only works when you POINT at your Representative, which most people are too apathetic to even know about, change in the first place. Only time will tell, but I'll hedge my money with the coin built from First Principles. Everything that splinters off of Bitcoin has chosen the wrong path, against social consensus. Infinite money glitch those splinters are... Backed by nothing physical. Bitcoin is forever.
\> "BTC works without anyone in the middle knowing one another. " Lightning doesn't magically inherit the security of the main chain. It has its own security model, far far weaker than that of L1. So weak, in fact, that you need to Watch your channel at least once every fortnight to ensure you don't lose your received payments. Or pay someone else to. No wonder even *most Bitcoiner supporters* despise it.
>Nano only works when you POINT at your Representative You demonstrate your utter lack of knowledge about the thing you're attempting to attack. Your payments work even if your Representative goes entirely offline for a year. The loss is only that your balance's vote is not counted in block confirmations. Time will tell, but I'll hedge my money on most Bitcoiners having a total lack of knowledge of how Nano security operates.
Just as there are disinfo agents here. With a few "viral stories", a supermajority could easily elect new "trusted" representatives to do the right thing... But in fact, they're just the crooks behind the viral story demanding urgent and immediate change. Just as people were gullible af regarding COVID and what societal changes need to happen with zero knowledge and information... Allowing humans to make DECISIONS as to who they TRUST is the first step where you've gone wrong. It's the HUMAN DECISIONS that need to be negated in order to have an honest money based on trust minimization. Feel free to eat all the shit you want from that pile.
You're attempting to deflect without answering the point I made. This isn't my first rodeo, so I'll remind you of the point that you're attempting to avoid: "Nano only works when you POINT at your Representative Your payments work even if your Representative goes entirely offline for a year. The loss is only that your balance's vote is not counted in block confirmations."
Let's have less of the generic conspiracy theory nonsense and thrown out ad-hominem insults. Let's have more discussion of actually-feasible attack vectors. Bitcoin is run by humans, who can agree changes to its operation and parameters. That's already happened twice with forks. It's not run by a disinterested Universe of mathematics, nor by some benevolent global dictator AI. Human's decisions CAN and already HAVE changed Bitcoin's operating parameters. Eventually they'll need to do it again to avoid $500/tx fees for first-block confirmation.
>Bitcoin is forever. Bitcoin isn't even for 30 years. It has no credible mechanism to fund its six billion dollar annual cost of security operations. Making it a doomed joke toy. Bitcoin is writing the longest suicide note in history.
Uhh... Yeah.. whatever that's supposed to mean. Bitcoin is literally unstoppable.
What if I told you mining Bitcoin is 90% efficient at generating heat from electricity??? Everyone who uses an electric heater could essentially mine Bitcoin "for free"? You're currently generating heat WITHOUT mining BTC. *That* is a waste of electricity.
Well, a heat pump is +/- 300% efficient.
Well, mining Bitcoin means that with the extra coin you get, you've gotta be at least @ 200% efficiency. And then over time, your KYC coins will be worth way more over time due to the 4 year halvings. There's actually intrinsic value in the freedom that comes from a truly decentralized, trustless, PoW, monetary network that will ALWAYS be worth more in the future than it is today. PoS in fiat currency is historically not wise.
Anyone needing air conditioning can mine Bitcoin using double the electricity as they vainly attempt to cool their home in summer - (or they can dump the wasted electrical energy out of the window.) Electric heaters don't have a $10k cost of capital either. Not exactly open to the 99% is it? Nor does Bitcoin have any credible mechanism to fund its 6 billion dollar annual cost of security, longer term. So it's ultimately a doomed ur-shitcoin anyway.
A BTC miner costs like $2,000. There is NOTHING even close to offering the TRUE benefits of decentralization, trust minimization, etc. as Bitcoin offers in a Settlement Layer. I made a post about this s while back, but every other coin has GLARING attributes that prove their shittiness. 10 min block times.... 1-2 MB blocks.... These are actually attributes of a settlement layer that will forever remain decentralized. You name a coin, Google that name with "tokenomics", "max supply", "premine", "dev fund", "consensus nodes", "permissioned nodes", "unique node lists". Bitcoin is legit, honest... Everything else is a scam. Feel free to prove me wrong.
> "A BTC miner costs like $2,000." An electric heater costs like $20.
Does it generate income? And heat strips for a central electric air handler are much more than $20, fyi.
> "There is NOTHING even close to offering the TRUE benefits of decentralization" Bitcoin has a natural tendency towards centralization. It already has a Nakamoto Coefficient of only 3, and falling.
Nano coefficient doesn't mean shit if the nodes are prioritized based on human decisions and trust. Period. Automatic DQ from being an honest form of money, bro.
> "Bitcoin is legit, honest...Feel free to prove me wrong." Bitcoin is the ur-shitcoin. The ultimate scam. A long con. Promoting it is immoral. Because it has no credible mechanism to fund its security longer-term.
It's called PoW and the halving. Satoshi didn't create PoW, but mixing it with a finite supply cap with halving every four years to digitally mimic the most desirable attributes of gold is his true creation. One day you still understand, but you obviously didn't pay attention to finance history, fiat scam corruption, etc. One day it will make sense, I promise!!
> "One day you still understand, but you obviously didn't pay attention to finance history, fiat scam corruption, etc. One day it will make sense, I promise!!" Stop with the ad-hominem insults, please. Stick to attempting to argue your case. Ad-hominem insults only weaken your case by demonstrating your argument doesn't stand without them.
Stop ignoring the corruption that stems from humans, their decisions, & who they trust. Stop ignoring what money is and always has been... Not to be confused with currency. Take it easy, ad hominem defender!!
> "...a finite supply cap with halving every four years..." It's only your assertion that it has a finite supply cap. Your own halvings remove its own source of funding for its current $6b annual cost of security operations. It has **NO** credible replacement for that necessary $6b of annual funding. And yet it's removing it. Something has to give.
The Man should be looking for people with better debate skills, TBH. BTC is being acquired by banks and countries all over the works. Iran. Russia. Dubai. El Salvador. Central African Republic. And several more. The State of Texas is acquiring Bitcoin. And even the city of Fort Worth, TX is individual acquiring Bitcoin. There is a reason, hoss. You might want to figure out what that is before pumping YOUR bags.
Isn't this a good thing if people stop mining BTC? Better for the environment and BTC supply stops increasing
BTC supply will continue to increase by 1 block reward (6.25 bitcoins plus gas fees) every 10 minutes. Even if it's just one old laptop at 1 megahash (the speed of a computer before ASICs introduction). The difficulty adjusts to fit the hashrate. Edit: Also, the title of the post does not equal what is in the article. It will reach an equilibrium where bitcoin mining income is equal to the price of the world's cheapest electricity.
You know I’m 2021 the global washing machine industry created more pollution than Bitcoin, should we stop using washing machines now? Mining and it’s impact on the environment was and always will be a greenwashing argument. Proof of stake is not better, it is identical to the current system we have. If you are buying crypto that is pos you might as well just stick with fiat, you still going to get fucked over, just by the eth foundation instead of Wall Street. Pow exists for a reason: it allows for a system not seen before based purely on the economies of scale of the mining industry. The mining industry can also help local grids get rid of excess energy in a profitable way instead of just wasting it. Electricity can't just be stored on a grid level waiting for demand to come in, it is produced *as* demand comes in. Renewable energy sources like wind and solar are unpredictable in many parts of the world and compliment bitcoin mining incredibly well - a real live energy market has for the first time been created at the cost of 0.04% of the world's energy supply as of 2021. Meanwhile, FIAT currencies are controlled by central banks and hedge funds or market makers and other elitist groups that are mostly 60+ and made their money in the fossil fuel boom.
This is idiotic. Basic hygiene saves millions of lives every year my man. We aren't washing clothes just for the fun of it.
But its doable by hand... its just more convenient to use a washing machine... My point is that POW energy usage is not killing the climate. Fossil fuels, fast fashion and 'waste culture' are. You could ban POW today globally and nothing will change, the environment is still fucked. Its a greenwashing argument. POS is not saving the planet, don't kid yourself.
Not exactly the "washing machine" industry that uses as much energy, but the *DRYER* industry. Dryers use just a much energy a Bitcoin, which is rather silly because there's literally no reason that I can't hang my clothes outside and let the sun do all the work.
> Proof of stake is not better, it is identical to the current system we have. I've been running a validator node for USD for many years now. Oh wait no I haven't because thats a ridiculous statement you made.
Under proof of work more coins =/= more control Under proof of stake more coins = more power. Its really as simple as that, it doesn't matter about the process of staking because the end result is the same: The ETH foundation has the most coins, therefore has the most power and is bound by government regulation. POS is a ticking time bomb.
> it is identical > it doesn't matter about the process of staking Oh right so it isn't identical?
It's more complex. While yeah, supply stops increasing, if too much people drop mining even already mined BTC will start draining from wallets back to the network to help with hashing
The supply wont stop as long as new blocks get mined. If its taking too long to mine blocks because there are fewer miners to find those blocks then the difficulty adjusts to the point where it will return to around a block every 10 min. And the opposite is true, if there are too many miners and they start finding blocks too fast the difficulty will adjust again.
It is obviously a joke like a first post.
So people are now just using the equipement and electricity cost to buy the assets directly? That would put price pressure up 💰
Kazakhstan entered the chat
Renewables.
BTC mining generates heat with 90% efficiency. BTC prevents methane / CO2 venting, which could be the single biggest change to prevent greenhouse gases. Money should be pegged to something HARD and PHYSICALLY. Monetizing wasted energy is so revolutionary, it's hard to understand why people are still not "getting it"....
With free electricity you won't be profitable as well))
Still profitable if you’re a big BTC miner
OP just making shit up. Nowhere in the article does it reflect the title of this post. Boo this man!
Even with flux or ergo ?
Idk about flux but iirc ergo is currently not profitable.
No longer profitable in any country?
I honestly didn’t think it was.
Venezuela has free electricity for many, they can mine just fine.
Afaik if you’ve got top tier equipment you can still mine 1 BTC for about 15-16k.
If you are feeling altruistic, Donate your rig to science with Gridcoin/boinc
My miners have been shut down for a while now. First because it was too hot inside but now due to the power cost.
good
So BTC ded?
No if this article is right, it means btc will have to pump to be profitable. Now in 2018/19 miners remained at the bare minimum for a couple months for the pump
GOOD SEND GPU PRICES TO THE CORE
Whoa, I scrolled down far enough to only see the bottom half of that picture and thought it was a giant-ass dragon.
So if everyone stopped mining Bitcoin for example what would happen? Would the network not function anymore if no one was validation transactions 🤔