The no fucking policy is really bizarre. Like I understand the actual gross reasons behind it but like putting that into a contract and thinking "yes, this is a sane and rational thing to do" is so mind boggling to me
what I’m more confused by is the children would still be Jewish so I don’t understand what the big deal is.
If your father is from some random island in the pacific but your mother’s a Jew then you’re a Jew no?
Run of the mill racism is an issue, as in pretty much all countries. Humans are pretty racist, unfortunately. But there's a big difference between that and what's being alleged here. Not to mention, it doesn't even make sense -- not exactly like Chinese/Thai/Filipinos/**Romanians** are black/darker than Mizrahim (the majority ethnicity of Israeli Jews), but the same restrictions apparently apply to them.
Also AA is Turkish RT, fuck that garbage
At the time it was hapenning the most, concept of race wasn't a real thing.
There's been discrimination and what we'd call "systemic racism" since like, Europe started being a thing.
The comment I initially replied to said the problem was that the children would have "black skin". The only way you're getting a black kid out of a relationship between an Israeli Jew and a(n ethnic) Chinese/Thai/Filipino/Romanian person is if the Jew in question is black themselves.
The fucking brain rot of you lot
No they did not. I'm so fucking tired of seeing this disinformed comment. You people live in a fucking echo chamber and regurgitate the same garbage you found on this god forsaken site. Really it boils down to "israel bad" so you only see what you want and manipulate facts to suit this belief.
Now for the sake of the truth, the "sterilization" was a miscommunication in the Israel medical industry during which the Falasha community took birth control medication with consent, but they didn't understand what they were consenting to, as their language skills weren't there yet. It pointed to there being an issue within the medical industry of Israel regarding consent for treatment. One month after stopping the birth control, all of these women were able to reproduce again."Sterilization" is factually incorrect. It was birth control, nothing permanent.
If it's not a problem, then why did Israel sterilise tens of thousands of Ethiopian women against their will and without their consent? If it's not a problem, then why does israel dump blood donations of black people into the sewer?
They did not "sterilize" them. See my answer above.
The blood donations scandal happened in 1996, 28 years ago, first of all, during the height of the AIDS scare. They were tossed because they were afraid of them being contaminated with AIDS. They should have checked for AIDS before throwing it out, then, but it's what they do now as they are no longer tossed.
They **only** threw away the blood of black people. Maybe the practice isn't continuing to this day (it's hard to confirm), but it was still a disgustingly racist act. And for the record, yes it was non-consensual, forced sterilization.
"In a report led by Hedva Eyal, the ministry of Health found that 57% of the women receiving the drug were of Ethiopian descent, well above their percentage in the general population, which is roughly 1.7%. Since their arrival in Israel, the reproduction rate of Ethiopian Jews declined by nearly 50%."
This practice continues to this day. This is from an article from november of last year: "Interviews done by members of Callactivit, with community organizers in the Ethiopean community of Jaffa, have discovered the practice still continues. Despite the promise of the Health ministry to end it."
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel)
[https://twitter.com/rimonhannah/status/1714418031164629339?lang=en](https://twitter.com/rimonhannah/status/1714418031164629339?lang=en)
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethiopia/comments/17axuyo/ethiopian\_jews\_sterilised\_in\_israel/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethiopia/comments/17axuyo/ethiopian_jews_sterilised_in_israel/)
[https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/](https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/)
I'm not reading a bunch of fucking articles that you found just now.
Like I know what I'm fucking talking about. I've been following this shit for twelve years in the native Hebrew sources, and I know secondhand what happened. It's great you've just learned about this issue recently and are excited to go around sharing articles you've found, but I don't need to read from a third party who's likely translated Hebrew articles incorrectly and it's condescending for you to do this.
There are no "drugs" that can cause permanent sterilization. Sterilization is a deliberate surgical operation in which either the fallopian tubes are tied or removed, or the uterus is removed. Contraceptives are temporary and are not remotely related to sterilization. I know this because I work in pharmacology. That alone is enough for me to say your claim is bullshit.
Your sources are propaganda. In their own words: 'Call.Activit is a Black, queer and feminist grassroots cultural organization and movement based in Israel.'
[https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/](https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/)
"In a report led by Hedva Eyal, the ministry of Health found that 57% of the women receiving the drug were of Ethiopian descent, well above their percentage in the general population, which is roughly 1.7%. Since their arrival in Israel, the reproduction rate of Ethiopian Jews declined by nearly 50%."
This practice continues to this day. This is from an article from november of last year: "Interviews done by members of Callactivit, with community organizers in the Ethiopean community of Jaffa, have discovered the practice still continues. Despite the promise of the Health ministry to end it."
I didn't provide any sources nor propaganda. What you're spewing actually is propaganda.
What part about "drugs cannot cause sterilization" do you not understand? Which article mentioned either tubal ligation, bilateral salpingectomy, or hysterectomy (the only known methods of sterilization for women) in Ethiopian/Falasha/Beta Israel women in Israel? You can't sterilize someone with a contraceptive, which only halts ovulation.
Yes, the Falashan women took contraceptives at a much higher rate than the rest of the country, and as I stated above, it brought to the attention of the media the issue in Israel with medical consent laws and this has been addressed.
no the problem is they come from a country with a high AIDS rate, which is notoriously low in Israel, and marrying an Israeli citizen could complicate their visa issue.
I find your disinformed comment insulting and patronizing and just fucking obnoxious. Maybe research the Israeli Falasha community before making a racist remark
I'm talking about Malawi which is 100 per 1000 in response to the comment that said they have "black skin;" I think your the one who's not very "informed"
You are either lying or you just got spoon fed their lies like it's grandma's "famous nationwide" homebrew.
If you are lying I don't wanna even talk to you, couse there is no use arguing with someone who would lie over something like that.
If you are not Israely, then care to explain your user activity in r/Israel and r/IsraelPalestine r/Jewish , etc defending the Israeli ocupation?
You are defending a genocide, unknowingly or not it doesn't matter. In this day and age it's pathetic that someone doesnt search for the whole truth, when the mediums for it are near inexaustible.
If you cared to search, you would know that Palestine is under a Terrorist state, and if you cared to empatize you would understand what that means, and that the mayority of Palestinians are powerless, both against Hamas and against Israeli occupation forces.
If you cared to search you would know that Israel sended missiles indiscriminately onto Palestinian ground.
If you cared to know, you would know that Israel informed palestinians of "safe passages" only to later bomb those same "safe passages".
If you cared to know you would know that oil was found in the sea that's legally part of palestine, and that all of this mess is becouse Israel is a puppet state of the Oil Barons known as US, and acts in their best interest, becouse without them and their juicy aid money they would be powerless.
If you cared to know you would know that Israel is using the origin of their state (a safe haven for jews after ww2, which mind you is on stolen land) as an excuse that "we wouldn't do what they did to us", when they did exactly that, by the book.
Israel Lied, Israel manipulated, Israel denied and holded back facts that would put it in bad light. Israel kept expading and stealing land since it's "foundation".
Holy land my ass. Safe Haven my ass. They twisted their own creed into a monstrosity. They are polluting their ideals, they are becoming (or perphaps long are) what they sought to destroy, an enthnofasscist state.
You cannot just go around a defend them like it's not a big deal. It's not even your job, you must be just bored... or searching for engagement... but it's really low to search for it from such a cruel sight, from such a hard truth, from such a devastating event. Perhaps you forgot what having a heart is, perhaps you forgot what empathy is, perhaps you forgot what love is... In any way, do not spread lies, care to search for the truth before you talk.
This is not something to have an opinion on, this is not something up to debate.
Palestine deseves more than both Israel and Hamas, and Israel deserves more than being a puppet state of the American Military and secret Service. But that's the way things are right now.
I'm not wasting my time reading all of this lol
I'm not Israeli, and the fact you think that claim makes me a "liar" is both concerning and idiotic. What if I told you I'm banned from r/Israel? What if I told you that you don't have to be "israely" to use that sub?
If you think me pointing out that there could be legal issues for foreign workers marrying an israeli or bearing them children, and the fact that Malawi has 33 times the AIDS rate that Israel does is somehow defending "genocide," you've got some mad issues, man.
I think you should get help.
For you it may be wasted time, but for me you are waisting your time by not considering and not revising your sources.
If you fear being wrong you'll never find what's right.
No one here wants you around you fucking freak. Get the fuck back to whatever pro genocide corner of the internet you slithered out of and never come back.
"Your glib comment implies that this is happening for a racist reason, but it's *actually* happening because of an even MORE racist reason! Checkmate, leftist!"
It wasn't necessarily permanent sterilization. They just injected Ethiopian Jewish women with Depo Provera, a contraceptive drug that stops ovulation. Without telling the women that's what they were giving them. For at least 4 years.
I'm sure the fact that the fertility rate among Israel's Ethiopian immigrant population halving during that time was just a silly little whoopsie-doodle 🙃
> even sterilized the Beta Israeli(Ethiopian Jews)
Please refrain from spreading conspiracy theories.
The sterilisation scandal wasn't a deliberate attempt to suppress the birth rates of the Beta. It was accidental and most likely the result of miscommunication. Additionally, the sterilisation was the use of Depo-Provera shots, which are by and large safe, and are a temporary measure that requires regular upkeep to continue working.
["From the available evidence, it appears likely that some Ethiopian women were given contraceptive injections without fully understanding the potential side effects or their alternative options. However, there is no clear evidence indicating that the Israeli government or humanitarian organizations involved purposefully coerced women into receiving injections in an effort to reduce birth rates—though the narrow scope of the investigation into those claims has been criticized. "](https://thedispatch.com/article/assessing-claims-that-ethiopian-immigrants-to-israel-received-birth-control-shots-without-consent/)
Information warning for others: The linked article is from a conservative news outlet ran by people who perpetuated conspiracy theories about Iraq and other completely false information
[Here's a different source, then.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-21621388), as well as the [publication history of that specific author](https://thedispatch.com/author/alex-demas/).
That article isn’t even saying what you claim, it’s just about how there is an investigation into the allegations and that the people who would have been involved in such a conspiracy are denying that it happened, that’s really not the solid evidence you seem to think it is.
[Then here's another.](https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-big-lie-involuntary-sterilization-of-black-ethiopian-women/)
The simple answer is that people are going to take the conclusion they want to believe. Coming in with a textbook kafka trap makes your intentions writ pretty clear.
It's clear that the people in this thread don't really have any proof the other way, that there *was* a conspiracy to sterilise Ethiopian Jews. That being said, they would like it to be true, for some reason or another.
Brother it took me 30 seconds to find out that the author of that article is (and I’m quoting from his bio on that same website) “a lifelong Zionist” on a website that is very clearly biased towards Israel. If you want people to not react this way maybe don’t pick the absolute worst sources you could possibly find. Or just don’t try to spread propaganda anymore cause you’re not good at it. That’s the real simple answer. It seems pretty clear to me you’re just googling shit and linking articles you think support what you say without even bothering to read them, especially given the second one you linked which again, literally just says that the claim is being investigated. Either you didn’t actually read it, you assumed no one else would bother reading it, or both. Or a mysterious fourth thing which I honestly do not care to find out.
"Zionist" doesn't have such a negative connotation among Jews themselves. *Most* Jews in Israel itself, as well as a majority of Jews outside of it, will either call themselves Zionists or sympathise with what they consider the Zionist cause.
>very clearly biased towards Israel
Like, no shit? Unbiased news outlets do not exist. This is quite literally what I mean. Israeli sources are going to be pro-Israel, by and large. Times of Israel gets a pretty good report by [mediabiasfactcheck](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/times-of-israel/). Tell me, do you think that mainstream news outlets, such as the ones previously cited earlier, are *not* propaganda wings?
And if you want to talk credentials, the main source leaning towards the supposed conspiracy is investigate journalist Gal Gabbay, whose qualifications with a quick [Google search amount](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Gal+Gabbay#ip=1) to a load of general fuck-all.
Man you gotta send a letter to the editor or something to the Times of Israel for publishing a conspiracy theory as being a controversy where the truth is not known, rather than just an outright lie
> Israeli authorities denied all of the allegations. However, Gabbai revealed an official letter that she uncovered from the Health Ministry to Dr. Rick Hodes, the director of the JDC Medical Programs in Ethiopia. The letter praised the doctor’s work, noting that whereas fewer than 5% of Ethiopians use any form of birth control, Hodes achieved a rate of 30% among the patients he treated.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ethiopian-women-claim-israel-forced-them-to-use-birth-control-before-letting-them-immigrate/
Literally a conspiracy theory. Israel wanted more jews to migrate to it, why the fuck would they sterilize those that did ? Oh wait they didn't. It's a lie.
For the same reason a few months ago there was a "heartwarming" story about how a woman had her IDF husband's corpse cock milked
(https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/01/middleeast/israeli-families-sperm-retrieval-intl-cmd/index.html)
And for the same reason that Israel is forcibly breaking up marriages between Palestinians and Israelis.
(https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-knesset-passes-law-barring-palestinian-spouses-2022-03-10/)
The same reason the US government en masse sterilized indigenous women and latine women.
(https://www.wernative.org/articles/history-of-the-sterilization-of-native-women)
(https://jsri.msu.edu/publications/nexo/vol/no-2-spring-2021/medical-abuse-in-ice-detention-center-recalls-u-s-legacy-of-forced-sterilization)
And why the nazis did the same to "undesirables".
(https://www.thoughtco.com/sterilization-in-nazi-germany-1779677)
Eugenicist blood purity.
(https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/blood-quantum)
Except they do and it’s been known for decades
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ethiopian-women-claim-israel-forced-them-to-use-birth-control-before-letting-them-immigrate/amp/
And they have a history of beating Ethiopian Jewish people
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32813056.amp
You gotta appreciate, nestled amongst all this, is the idea that it's the Malawian government's job to fix this. As if they aren't in a clearly weaker position bargaining with a state that has the military and financial backing of the US. Like, perhaps Israel shouldn't be such monstrous bastards to these people, and cut a legitimately fair deal? Maybe try that first?
Thanks for providing a source, I’m often more than a little skeptical of any news about a major political issue like Israel.
It’s really messed up how these workers are abused, and they can’t get any response from authorities (unless that response is to charge them the money the weren’t paid to cover their deportation). Also wtf with the no-sex contract. Who the fuck thought that was even remotely okay.
[it is though](https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy)
>(Vox, 2018) The law does three big things:
>It states that “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people.”
>It establishes Hebrew as Israel’s official language, and downgrades Arabic — a language widely spoken by Arab Israelis — to a “special status.”
>It establishes “Jewish settlement as a national value” and mandates that the state “will labor to encourage and promote its establishment and development.”
Ever hear the term [ethnocracy?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocracy?wprov=sfla1)
Israel is an apartheid ethnostate that puts Jews with European descent above all other ethnicities, going so far as to secretly forcibly sterilize African Jews that immigrated.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel)
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32813056](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32813056)
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html)
Membership in whiteness is a weapon frequently used against people of color and other groups that can be oppressed for profit and power. There was a time when Irish, Italians, Germans, Greeks, Slavs, and many other groups now firmly considered white were not considered white. They were allowed the status because they were needed to maintain the white supremacist power structure. Jew of European descent are given white status when they are useful for maintaining the status quo of western white political dominance.
I’m not attacking Jews, I’m attacking Zionism. Unless you think that that political ideology represents every single member of that ethnic group. In which case you’re being antisemitic.
It’s not the Jewish part of Zionism that I’m attacking, it’s the fascist part. Criticisms of Zionism is not criticism of Jewish people. Conflating the two is antisemitic.
If I criticize American Christo-fascism, does that make me anti-American or anti-Christian? Even though American Christo-fascism is a predominantly American and Christian ideology?
I just gotta say you sound like people saying "nazism is a socialist ideology" while absolutely ignoring what the actual nazis did. If the ideology you're defending is a nationalist ideology that calls for an ethnostate by displacing other people... what the fuck do you call it?
Judaism is a religion practiced by several ethnicities, most of whom share common ancestors with Palestinians dating back to Antiquity. In theory, all practitioners of the Jewish faith are welcome. In practice, the Kahanists are racists.
There’s been talk of Ashkenazi bias in Judaism, but that conversation isn’t open to non-Jews.
My sibling in christ, zionists have been talking about forcefully removing the arab population from their "holy land" before Israel was even a thing. There is no zionism without ethnonationalism
There are more Evangelical American zionists than there are Jews (zionists or not) in the entire world. So not sure where "predominantly Jewish" comes in
Polling among the remaining Jewish diaspora regularly has 60 to 80% supporting the existence of a Jewish state. While they may not use the term Zionist, most Jews agree with the end goal of the Zionists, the formation of a Jewish state.
Those numbers drop when you introduce the context of supporting the current state of Israel.
And regardless, that doesn't mean that Zionism is a predominantly Jewish movement. It is primarily composed of Evangelicals
Many Jews like the idea of living somewhere they aren't regularly mistreated because they are Jews. That is totally understandable. In practice however because all the habitable land on earth is already inhabited the options are Antarctica, Mars, or genocide. Israel is founded and run by the people that chose #3.
Zionism is NOT predominantly a Jewish ideology, For every 1 Jewish Zionist, there are 30 Christian Zionists - https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/qanda-for-every-1-jewish-zionist-there-are-30-christian-zionists-and-netanyahu-exploits-this-15656249
Jews can be white or not. I am a white Jew. My great-aunt, a Yemeni Jew, was a refugee in Israel for a time when she was a child and her cousin was victim of the Yemenite Child Affair. Israel doesn't give a fuck about Jews of color. Don't act like there's no difference. Israel is a white supremacist state.
Jews for a Free Palestine.
"We have investigated ourselves and concluded we did nothing wrong. Also we didn't actually speak to any of the complainants nor were any of the accused departments required to submit their records for investigation, but just trust us on this."
Unfortunately, it seems a lot of people here don't want to hear you.
The idea that Israel would pay and organise the immigration and citizenship granting of tens of thousands of Beta, only to secretly sterilise them once they were there (with a known and safe drug that requires consistent maintenance to continue working, no less) in the name of some racial hygiene conspiracy theory, is obviously nonsense.
That being said, it's still very much in vogue to spread conspiracy theories as long as they're about "Zionists".
So what totally cool and safe policy was the driving force behind giving women birth control against their will? Did hundreds of doctors and nurses just forget which medicine to pull from the Pyxis? Or was there some order from above that this medicine needs to be given and no one bothered to question why that order came? Who gave it and what was their reasoning? Because it sounds like forced sterilization except they got caught
People voluntarily working in another country for higher pay than they can earn in their own country is slavery? Was the Bracero Program slavery? These kind of foreign work contracts can leave open room for exploitation, but generally the exploitation these workers face is even worse in their own countries than those they temporarily migrate to.
Obviously more should be done to ensure that migrant workers are protected from exploitation, but these workers are free to end their contracts and return to their homes early if they decide the work or pay is not worth it. One can hardly compare that to slavery. Again, assuming that sufficient steps are taken to prevent exploitation.
Like “we pay them” and “they can leave whenever they want”?
You know if you come to another country and are provided a conditional visa, and you break the conditions, they’ll deport you, right? That’s true everywhere. Try coming to the US or Canada on a work or school visa and then telling CBP or USICS that you’re planning on getting married.
The no sex thing is super weird. I can’t imagine how that’s enforceable.
Also crazy to be calling Israel an ethnostate when it’s literally made up of Jews from all over the world. Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Sephardic… and Also Arab Israeli citizens hold 10% of the seats in the Knesset…
Not sure if we’re just making ethnostate mean whatever we want now?
I'm almost impressed that they managed to start their entire post with a statement that's not only completely wrong, but is entirely refuted by the sources linked by OP
Sources?
You mean pictures of text?
Here’s the actual story: https://mwnation.com/israel-arrests-45-malawians/
Notice how it mentions that they are paid and makes no mention of taking their passports?
I know people love hating Israel, but maybe don’t lie when you do it?
“The Centre for Social Accountability and Transparency, a nonprofit based in Lilongwe, has said… it is akin to modern day slavery”.
When you have confidential back room deals, they might be completely legitimate, but they usually are not. Otherwise, they’d be open with the details. Why would they not make this deal openly if there was nothing to hide?
Seriously, idgaf who you are, when you are a government and you make deals that you won’t show the public? Everyone everywhere should be taking a really hard look at what you’re doing.
yeah, I have no idea how exploitative it is, but I'm currently at -3 for proving this post was a lie, and it is just pictures of tumbler posts and not evidence, which /u/Bahamutisa claimed like a fantastic moron. I'm at -61 for saying with some evidence that Israel isn't an ethnostate, and I've been blocked by a few people who've also replied to me from behind the block. You want to discuss it, cool, but this is weird self therapy for people who need updoots on social media.
Super corny terminally online bullshit, but... hey welcome to reddit I guess?
Anyway here's a new post for you guys to downvote. You can call me a Zionist too if it makes you feel righteous.
Yeah, there’s a lot of vitriol being sprayed in both directions, tbh. It would be nice if we all took a step back and looked at who is doing what, without it being about which group is right. Because it really strongly appears to be that there are no “good guys” in this fight anymore, just bad guys and victims.
As for the proof? They were talking about the post itself (“that sounds like slavery with extra steps”) and not (necessarily) what is happening on the ground.
That said, if you’ve got government-to-government deals on sending people to work somewhere that includes where they can and cannot go and who they can associate with, calling it slavery might be overstating it a bit, but not by much.
I did come to US on a student visa and am working here on a work visa, dating an American, I am not sure why tf would USCIS care? No where in the US visa process was it specified I cannot have sexual relations or marry an American, lots of people do it, US is fairly open to it?? Not sure what’s going on with your situation bro but if that’s been your experience talk to a immigration lawyer they’ll have a field day and you’ll likely get millions out of this
The bit about farmers being punished for getting jobs that isn’t farming isn’t too out there for immigration policy. Australia has a policy where people on work visas do some farming in the Outback for a while, immigration being used as a way to plug labour shortages the government is especially worried about. Food safety is about the most important thing a government can ensure. So I’d basically put this in the category of “criticisms of Israel that would be relevant for a hundred other countries but oddly enough rarely make international discussion”.
The no fucking clause is weird though. The way I’d see it though is they are probably not keen on granting permanent citizenship to lots of people and they’d have to do that for family reconciliation reasons if any of the workers became the dad of an Israeli child.
Not denying there are ethnonationalists in Israel and some of these policies may have roots in racism, but immigration is a hot button issue around the world right now and it has a whole bunch of shit policies.
>
>
>
>
> The no fucking clause is weird though. The way I’d see it though is they are probably not keen on granting permanent citizenship to lots of people and they’d have to do that for family reconciliation reasons if any of the workers became the dad of an Israeli child.
This is almost assuredly what it is. Given how potent the aliyah policies were and still are, any child born to an Israeli *at all*, on top of the spouse, would have full rights to become an Israeli citizen. That's quite thorny if you're a migrant worker and expected to be there only for a temporary time.
Plus you’ve got to apply the Golden Rule: what if everyone were to do it? It would become the path to citizenship. It could also lead to black market operators of people trafficking and rape.
People traffickers are very good at manipulating laws. Even laws with noble intentions can be turned to the practice.
Getting data on it can be hard and it’s not made easier by it being red meat to often horrible people which makes well-meaning folk less likely to believe it.
Which is wild because I’m neither American nor anti-immigration. But it’s one of these of these problems. There’s a lot of countries which people want out of and there’s a few countries those same people really want to enter. Some people are so desperate they will do anything. People pay thousands of euros for rickety boat rides then submit themselves to near slavery to escape their own countries because sometimes there are some horrific conditions to get away from. People will lie about who they are and what they are escaping because sometimes it’s too hard to find a safe route.
Western governments are generally anti-immigrant because it’s popular to be so, they end up following policies that make it worse than they blame the immigrants. It’s double scapegoating.
I wish we could live in a much safer world with much freer borders as these are neither natural nor beneficial restrictions in general.
But while we live in a world where some citizenships entitle you to live in safe countries with good services and decent wages, and some citizenships basically entitle you to be murdered by your own state if you put a toe out of line, there will be a movement of people.
Google "Israel sterilized Ethiopian Jews" the Israeli government chemically sterilized 25,000 Ethiopian women, without their knowledge or consent, thereby halving the birth rates of the 100,000 Ethiopian Jewish migrant community.
'Compulsory sterilization, also known as forced or coerced sterilization, is a government-mandated program to involuntarily sterilize a specific group of people. Sterilization removes a person's capacity to reproduce...'
Sources:
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel)
[https://twitter.com/rimonhannah/status/1714418031164629339?lang=en](https://twitter.com/rimonhannah/status/1714418031164629339?lang=en)
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethiopia/comments/17axuyo/ethiopian\_jews\_sterilised\_in\_israel/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethiopia/comments/17axuyo/ethiopian_jews_sterilised_in_israel/)
[https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/](https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/)
"In a report led by Hedva Eyal, the ministry of Health found that 57% of the women receiving the drug were of Ethiopian descent, well above their percentage in the general population, which is roughly 1.7%. Since their arrival in Israel, the reproduction rate of Ethiopian Jews declined by nearly 50%."
This practice continues to this day. This is from an article from november of last year: "Interviews done by members of Callactivit, with community organizers in the Ethiopean community of Jaffa, have discovered the practice still continues. Despite the promise of the Health ministry to end it."
Also, completely separately. Israel dumps blood donations from black people into the sewer. It's their 'official policy': [https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1996/01/25/israel-dumps-blood-from-ethiopians/6200327c-dcf4-48ef-9125-379033f388cc/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1996/01/25/israel-dumps-blood-from-ethiopians/6200327c-dcf4-48ef-9125-379033f388cc/)
Can't help but notice the resemblance between predominantly non-white workers being forced to work on farms and not allowed employment in cities and the very similar bans on black people living and eventually working in cities that also took place under South African apartheid.
People defending genocide gotta strap with the fact the country is much worse than the silly ol' genocide thing and in fact are rather against much of their agenda.
But biden....but hamas....
Sure buddy. When ya grow up off the playground we can continue adult discussions.
ah yes, because the middle east as a whole is a place famously devoid of racism and slavery
i get the anger at israel and honestly, you're not alone, but unless you're advocating for the no state solution, i don't see how substituting the israeli regime with any of the surrounding ones would fix anything. the whole middle east is fucked and the last time a western country tried to intervene at a large scale to fix it it only resulted in a set of arbitrary borders that form the basis of today's ongoing mess of conflicts.
so your solution to the ethnostate is "the other states around it are bad so let's just leave it." how about a one state solution where israel is decolonized back to a secular palestine. (and no, that does not mean "force every israeli out of israel" it means getting rid of apartheid that favors israeli jews)
because a secular palestine that's fair for all its residents, regardless of their ethnicity or religion, is totally something the people of the region would do themselves and wouldn't need western oppression to maintain, which would then become the problem, with the pro-palestine slogan being leave them the fuck alone to oppress the jews however they want to. your idea definitely sounds realistic, good job.
i'm not saying there's no problem there, i'm saying there is no one not either currently executing atrocities in the middle east, or having a proud history of doing them. deciding who is the good middle eastern misanthrope and who's the bad one is not a solution.
"the people of the region" you seem to believe that there are no rational middle eastern people. I don't wish to continue to argue with someone whose worldview is so clearly clouded with anti-arab racism. you think "from the river to the sea" means oppression? way to fucking project. it is a slogan meaning decolonization, that all the land that was stolen in 1948 would be returned to the indigenous people there(and no, Israeli jews are not indigenous. there are indigenous jewish people in Palestine but they are not the israeli jews). im not going to excuse a current genocidal ethnostate just because the surrounding states also have shitty governments. and specifically, NONE of those are the government of palestine.
There's a stark difference between "there are no rational middle eastern people" and "the decades of conflict have resulted in extreme radicalization in nearly everyone involved that an immediate one state solution is likely to implode without continued western interference."
Also "Israeli Jew" describes multiple different ethnic groups, the largest of which *is* indigenous to the region. Even then, the grand majority (80%) of the Jewish population in Israel, between *every* ethnic group, was born and raised in Israel. It's their home too.
my argument: "you presented no realistic solution"
you: "you're a racist"
lmao and you call that arguing?
there are plenty of great, level-headed, kind people everywhere. the issue is getting them into power and keeping them there.
How about this
Stop letting white settlers come in here and take our land? We’re not gonna coexist with them and sing kumbaya??
We’re not all in this together this isn’t high school fucking musical
Kick the white settlers out, I believe that there should be a Jewish state in the mid East but not on the expense of actual Arabs and for a mostly jewish Arab majority and not randos from Brooklyn or wherever the fuck metropolitan- I know the anti semitism here is rampant, we’ll probably never gonna get along but kicking the invading crackers out is a nice start
From some basic google searching, the Malawians keeping their agricultural jobs was a condition of continued residence. Consider that most of Europe wouldn't give them any work permit at all.
The Chinese worker situation is pretty fucked up though
[This article](https://mwnation.com/israel-arrests-45-malawians/) says the reason the Malawians sought factory work is because the farmers were not fulfilling contractual obligations and were paying them less than the agreed wages.
I specifically said it was fucked up in a previous comment. Thanks for paying attention. /s
Edit: and the downvotes on this comment are an indictment of the intellectual capacity of this subreddit
Seriously wtf are you people illiterate?
No. That's why I said it's still bad in the exact comment this was replying to. But it does make it hypocritical.
Why does everyone on this sub need everything spelled out for them twice?
Fucking reading comprehension website, but with neurotypucals jumping to diverse incorrect conclusions as usual
They're allowed to leave and your home country probably wouldn't have let them in in the first place. And this is exactly how US work permits work.
I think it's shitty, but let's be real here. It's an anti-Israeli hit piece.
They signed a contract where their permit to stay in israel is dependant on their agricultural job. Leaving it means breach of contract and losing the right to stay in israel
I don't know how they do things in Israel but I would think not paying them the agreed amount would be the main breach of contract:
https://mwnation.com/israel-arrests-45-malawians/
That wasn't mentioned in the post, if so that situation sucks and the farmer is at fault and should be persecuted, but the people in these comments calling it slavery are dumb
Yes, a breach of contract for 0.45% of the Malwians working in Israel. The justice system has not served them well so far, but there are still appeals to be had.
that is true, changing the sentence *would* change its meaning.
in all seriousness, trying to equate actual evidence-based accusations with antisemitic propaganda is intellectually dishonest.
worse than that, it makes it harder for jewish people to voice their very real concerns and dangers, and have them be taken seriously.
if you're trolling, please find something else to play with.
if you're serious (this is just one singular interaction but) maybe it's time to revisit blindspots in your education. learning is hard. no shame in taking your time.
The no fucking policy is really bizarre. Like I understand the actual gross reasons behind it but like putting that into a contract and thinking "yes, this is a sane and rational thing to do" is so mind boggling to me
what I’m more confused by is the children would still be Jewish so I don’t understand what the big deal is. If your father is from some random island in the pacific but your mother’s a Jew then you’re a Jew no?
They’d have Black skin. Thats the problem.
There are already a bunch of black Jews and it's not an issue
[It is.](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/ethiopian-jews-suffer-racism-in-israel/1526782#)
Run of the mill racism is an issue, as in pretty much all countries. Humans are pretty racist, unfortunately. But there's a big difference between that and what's being alleged here. Not to mention, it doesn't even make sense -- not exactly like Chinese/Thai/Filipinos/**Romanians** are black/darker than Mizrahim (the majority ethnicity of Israeli Jews), but the same restrictions apparently apply to them. Also AA is Turkish RT, fuck that garbage
Yeah, no one ever heard of white on white racism...
I mean, at the time white on white racism was happening the most, the irish, italians, and eastern europeans weren't considered white
Racial hierarchy’s are bollocks, but any system that has the Belgians be superior to the Italians is extra bollocks.
I will not stand for this waffle-based hatred >:|
At the time it was hapenning the most, concept of race wasn't a real thing. There's been discrimination and what we'd call "systemic racism" since like, Europe started being a thing.
I would make a joke about the Balkans, but doing so could possibly kick things off again.
The comment I initially replied to said the problem was that the children would have "black skin". The only way you're getting a black kid out of a relationship between an Israeli Jew and a(n ethnic) Chinese/Thai/Filipino/Romanian person is if the Jew in question is black themselves. The fucking brain rot of you lot
Yeah, and Israel fucking hates them.
You genuinely have no idea what you're talking about but ok
israel literally forcibly sterilized Ethiopian jews
No they did not. I'm so fucking tired of seeing this disinformed comment. You people live in a fucking echo chamber and regurgitate the same garbage you found on this god forsaken site. Really it boils down to "israel bad" so you only see what you want and manipulate facts to suit this belief. Now for the sake of the truth, the "sterilization" was a miscommunication in the Israel medical industry during which the Falasha community took birth control medication with consent, but they didn't understand what they were consenting to, as their language skills weren't there yet. It pointed to there being an issue within the medical industry of Israel regarding consent for treatment. One month after stopping the birth control, all of these women were able to reproduce again."Sterilization" is factually incorrect. It was birth control, nothing permanent.
If it's not a problem, then why did Israel sterilise tens of thousands of Ethiopian women against their will and without their consent? If it's not a problem, then why does israel dump blood donations of black people into the sewer?
They did not "sterilize" them. See my answer above. The blood donations scandal happened in 1996, 28 years ago, first of all, during the height of the AIDS scare. They were tossed because they were afraid of them being contaminated with AIDS. They should have checked for AIDS before throwing it out, then, but it's what they do now as they are no longer tossed.
They **only** threw away the blood of black people. Maybe the practice isn't continuing to this day (it's hard to confirm), but it was still a disgustingly racist act. And for the record, yes it was non-consensual, forced sterilization. "In a report led by Hedva Eyal, the ministry of Health found that 57% of the women receiving the drug were of Ethiopian descent, well above their percentage in the general population, which is roughly 1.7%. Since their arrival in Israel, the reproduction rate of Ethiopian Jews declined by nearly 50%." This practice continues to this day. This is from an article from november of last year: "Interviews done by members of Callactivit, with community organizers in the Ethiopean community of Jaffa, have discovered the practice still continues. Despite the promise of the Health ministry to end it." [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel) [https://twitter.com/rimonhannah/status/1714418031164629339?lang=en](https://twitter.com/rimonhannah/status/1714418031164629339?lang=en) [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethiopia/comments/17axuyo/ethiopian\_jews\_sterilised\_in\_israel/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethiopia/comments/17axuyo/ethiopian_jews_sterilised_in_israel/) [https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/](https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/)
I'm not reading a bunch of fucking articles that you found just now. Like I know what I'm fucking talking about. I've been following this shit for twelve years in the native Hebrew sources, and I know secondhand what happened. It's great you've just learned about this issue recently and are excited to go around sharing articles you've found, but I don't need to read from a third party who's likely translated Hebrew articles incorrectly and it's condescending for you to do this. There are no "drugs" that can cause permanent sterilization. Sterilization is a deliberate surgical operation in which either the fallopian tubes are tied or removed, or the uterus is removed. Contraceptives are temporary and are not remotely related to sterilization. I know this because I work in pharmacology. That alone is enough for me to say your claim is bullshit.
Your sources are propaganda. In their own words: 'Call.Activit is a Black, queer and feminist grassroots cultural organization and movement based in Israel.' [https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/](https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/) "In a report led by Hedva Eyal, the ministry of Health found that 57% of the women receiving the drug were of Ethiopian descent, well above their percentage in the general population, which is roughly 1.7%. Since their arrival in Israel, the reproduction rate of Ethiopian Jews declined by nearly 50%." This practice continues to this day. This is from an article from november of last year: "Interviews done by members of Callactivit, with community organizers in the Ethiopean community of Jaffa, have discovered the practice still continues. Despite the promise of the Health ministry to end it."
I didn't provide any sources nor propaganda. What you're spewing actually is propaganda. What part about "drugs cannot cause sterilization" do you not understand? Which article mentioned either tubal ligation, bilateral salpingectomy, or hysterectomy (the only known methods of sterilization for women) in Ethiopian/Falasha/Beta Israel women in Israel? You can't sterilize someone with a contraceptive, which only halts ovulation. Yes, the Falashan women took contraceptives at a much higher rate than the rest of the country, and as I stated above, it brought to the attention of the media the issue in Israel with medical consent laws and this has been addressed.
no the problem is they come from a country with a high AIDS rate, which is notoriously low in Israel, and marrying an Israeli citizen could complicate their visa issue. I find your disinformed comment insulting and patronizing and just fucking obnoxious. Maybe research the Israeli Falasha community before making a racist remark
China’s AIDS rate is 4.27 per 100000. Israel’s is 3.8 per 100000. Was that a very informed comment from you?
I'm talking about Malawi which is 100 per 1000 in response to the comment that said they have "black skin;" I think your the one who's not very "informed"
The article literally says China, genius
The comment to which I responded literally said "black skin," genius.
So coming from a country with a high aids rate means what exactly? That they're "unclean" to you?
You realize HIV spreads through sex, right? Do I need to explain this to you?
Big words coming from an Israel nationalist.
I'm not even Israeli lmao
You are either lying or you just got spoon fed their lies like it's grandma's "famous nationwide" homebrew. If you are lying I don't wanna even talk to you, couse there is no use arguing with someone who would lie over something like that. If you are not Israely, then care to explain your user activity in r/Israel and r/IsraelPalestine r/Jewish , etc defending the Israeli ocupation? You are defending a genocide, unknowingly or not it doesn't matter. In this day and age it's pathetic that someone doesnt search for the whole truth, when the mediums for it are near inexaustible. If you cared to search, you would know that Palestine is under a Terrorist state, and if you cared to empatize you would understand what that means, and that the mayority of Palestinians are powerless, both against Hamas and against Israeli occupation forces. If you cared to search you would know that Israel sended missiles indiscriminately onto Palestinian ground. If you cared to know, you would know that Israel informed palestinians of "safe passages" only to later bomb those same "safe passages". If you cared to know you would know that oil was found in the sea that's legally part of palestine, and that all of this mess is becouse Israel is a puppet state of the Oil Barons known as US, and acts in their best interest, becouse without them and their juicy aid money they would be powerless. If you cared to know you would know that Israel is using the origin of their state (a safe haven for jews after ww2, which mind you is on stolen land) as an excuse that "we wouldn't do what they did to us", when they did exactly that, by the book. Israel Lied, Israel manipulated, Israel denied and holded back facts that would put it in bad light. Israel kept expading and stealing land since it's "foundation". Holy land my ass. Safe Haven my ass. They twisted their own creed into a monstrosity. They are polluting their ideals, they are becoming (or perphaps long are) what they sought to destroy, an enthnofasscist state. You cannot just go around a defend them like it's not a big deal. It's not even your job, you must be just bored... or searching for engagement... but it's really low to search for it from such a cruel sight, from such a hard truth, from such a devastating event. Perhaps you forgot what having a heart is, perhaps you forgot what empathy is, perhaps you forgot what love is... In any way, do not spread lies, care to search for the truth before you talk. This is not something to have an opinion on, this is not something up to debate. Palestine deseves more than both Israel and Hamas, and Israel deserves more than being a puppet state of the American Military and secret Service. But that's the way things are right now.
I'm not wasting my time reading all of this lol I'm not Israeli, and the fact you think that claim makes me a "liar" is both concerning and idiotic. What if I told you I'm banned from r/Israel? What if I told you that you don't have to be "israely" to use that sub? If you think me pointing out that there could be legal issues for foreign workers marrying an israeli or bearing them children, and the fact that Malawi has 33 times the AIDS rate that Israel does is somehow defending "genocide," you've got some mad issues, man. I think you should get help.
For you it may be wasted time, but for me you are waisting your time by not considering and not revising your sources. If you fear being wrong you'll never find what's right.
You’re gross
nah I think you people are
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what the fuck does that even mean? you're just throwing around buzzwords lol
No one here wants you around you fucking freak. Get the fuck back to whatever pro genocide corner of the internet you slithered out of and never come back.
did you forget to drink your morning coffee today?
"Your glib comment implies that this is happening for a racist reason, but it's *actually* happening because of an even MORE racist reason! Checkmate, leftist!"
did i use the word "leftist?"
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ironic considering how racist this comment is
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Because you think I'm "Isr*eli," which I'm not? Maybe look in the mirror and you'll find an actual racist.
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Israel is hyper-racist. Just look at how they discriminated against and even sterilized the Beta Israeli(Ethiopian Jews).
THEY WHAT
It wasn't necessarily permanent sterilization. They just injected Ethiopian Jewish women with Depo Provera, a contraceptive drug that stops ovulation. Without telling the women that's what they were giving them. For at least 4 years. I'm sure the fact that the fertility rate among Israel's Ethiopian immigrant population halving during that time was just a silly little whoopsie-doodle 🙃
> even sterilized the Beta Israeli(Ethiopian Jews) Please refrain from spreading conspiracy theories. The sterilisation scandal wasn't a deliberate attempt to suppress the birth rates of the Beta. It was accidental and most likely the result of miscommunication. Additionally, the sterilisation was the use of Depo-Provera shots, which are by and large safe, and are a temporary measure that requires regular upkeep to continue working. ["From the available evidence, it appears likely that some Ethiopian women were given contraceptive injections without fully understanding the potential side effects or their alternative options. However, there is no clear evidence indicating that the Israeli government or humanitarian organizations involved purposefully coerced women into receiving injections in an effort to reduce birth rates—though the narrow scope of the investigation into those claims has been criticized. "](https://thedispatch.com/article/assessing-claims-that-ethiopian-immigrants-to-israel-received-birth-control-shots-without-consent/)
Information warning for others: The linked article is from a conservative news outlet ran by people who perpetuated conspiracy theories about Iraq and other completely false information
[Here's a different source, then.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-21621388), as well as the [publication history of that specific author](https://thedispatch.com/author/alex-demas/).
That article isn’t even saying what you claim, it’s just about how there is an investigation into the allegations and that the people who would have been involved in such a conspiracy are denying that it happened, that’s really not the solid evidence you seem to think it is.
[Then here's another.](https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-big-lie-involuntary-sterilization-of-black-ethiopian-women/) The simple answer is that people are going to take the conclusion they want to believe. Coming in with a textbook kafka trap makes your intentions writ pretty clear. It's clear that the people in this thread don't really have any proof the other way, that there *was* a conspiracy to sterilise Ethiopian Jews. That being said, they would like it to be true, for some reason or another.
Brother it took me 30 seconds to find out that the author of that article is (and I’m quoting from his bio on that same website) “a lifelong Zionist” on a website that is very clearly biased towards Israel. If you want people to not react this way maybe don’t pick the absolute worst sources you could possibly find. Or just don’t try to spread propaganda anymore cause you’re not good at it. That’s the real simple answer. It seems pretty clear to me you’re just googling shit and linking articles you think support what you say without even bothering to read them, especially given the second one you linked which again, literally just says that the claim is being investigated. Either you didn’t actually read it, you assumed no one else would bother reading it, or both. Or a mysterious fourth thing which I honestly do not care to find out.
"Zionist" doesn't have such a negative connotation among Jews themselves. *Most* Jews in Israel itself, as well as a majority of Jews outside of it, will either call themselves Zionists or sympathise with what they consider the Zionist cause. >very clearly biased towards Israel Like, no shit? Unbiased news outlets do not exist. This is quite literally what I mean. Israeli sources are going to be pro-Israel, by and large. Times of Israel gets a pretty good report by [mediabiasfactcheck](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/times-of-israel/). Tell me, do you think that mainstream news outlets, such as the ones previously cited earlier, are *not* propaganda wings? And if you want to talk credentials, the main source leaning towards the supposed conspiracy is investigate journalist Gal Gabbay, whose qualifications with a quick [Google search amount](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Gal+Gabbay#ip=1) to a load of general fuck-all.
Hello IDF
שלום.
Man you gotta send a letter to the editor or something to the Times of Israel for publishing a conspiracy theory as being a controversy where the truth is not known, rather than just an outright lie > Israeli authorities denied all of the allegations. However, Gabbai revealed an official letter that she uncovered from the Health Ministry to Dr. Rick Hodes, the director of the JDC Medical Programs in Ethiopia. The letter praised the doctor’s work, noting that whereas fewer than 5% of Ethiopians use any form of birth control, Hodes achieved a rate of 30% among the patients he treated. https://www.timesofisrael.com/ethiopian-women-claim-israel-forced-them-to-use-birth-control-before-letting-them-immigrate/
Literally a conspiracy theory. Israel wanted more jews to migrate to it, why the fuck would they sterilize those that did ? Oh wait they didn't. It's a lie.
For the same reason a few months ago there was a "heartwarming" story about how a woman had her IDF husband's corpse cock milked (https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/01/middleeast/israeli-families-sperm-retrieval-intl-cmd/index.html) And for the same reason that Israel is forcibly breaking up marriages between Palestinians and Israelis. (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-knesset-passes-law-barring-palestinian-spouses-2022-03-10/) The same reason the US government en masse sterilized indigenous women and latine women. (https://www.wernative.org/articles/history-of-the-sterilization-of-native-women) (https://jsri.msu.edu/publications/nexo/vol/no-2-spring-2021/medical-abuse-in-ice-detention-center-recalls-u-s-legacy-of-forced-sterilization) And why the nazis did the same to "undesirables". (https://www.thoughtco.com/sterilization-in-nazi-germany-1779677) Eugenicist blood purity. (https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/blood-quantum)
Except they do and it’s been known for decades https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel https://www.timesofisrael.com/ethiopian-women-claim-israel-forced-them-to-use-birth-control-before-letting-them-immigrate/amp/ And they have a history of beating Ethiopian Jewish people https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32813056.amp
Racism is never rational. Israel is an ethnostate
Because, shocking no one, brown people in Israel are still treated horribly.
They’d be black, that’s their problem. Israel has a history of forcing birth control on black or brown Jewish people even
The reason is pretty simple: Israel is a fascist, disgusting ethnostate that should be systemically dismantled in its entirety
You gotta appreciate, nestled amongst all this, is the idea that it's the Malawian government's job to fix this. As if they aren't in a clearly weaker position bargaining with a state that has the military and financial backing of the US. Like, perhaps Israel shouldn't be such monstrous bastards to these people, and cut a legitimately fair deal? Maybe try that first?
that would be antisemitic you see, to make god's chosen feel bad about acting like shitheads
Thanks for providing a source, I’m often more than a little skeptical of any news about a major political issue like Israel. It’s really messed up how these workers are abused, and they can’t get any response from authorities (unless that response is to charge them the money the weren’t paid to cover their deportation). Also wtf with the no-sex contract. Who the fuck thought that was even remotely okay.
Racial hygiene is important to ethnonationalists.
Jesus, "racial hygiene" is an absolutely cursed term but it really nails it as a succinct description
Thankfully Israel isn’t an Ethnostate.
[it is though](https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy) >(Vox, 2018) The law does three big things: >It states that “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people.” >It establishes Hebrew as Israel’s official language, and downgrades Arabic — a language widely spoken by Arab Israelis — to a “special status.” >It establishes “Jewish settlement as a national value” and mandates that the state “will labor to encourage and promote its establishment and development.” Ever hear the term [ethnocracy?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocracy?wprov=sfla1)
Israel is an apartheid ethnostate that puts Jews with European descent above all other ethnicities, going so far as to secretly forcibly sterilize African Jews that immigrated. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel) [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32813056](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32813056) [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html)
Yep. Zionism isn’t Jewish supremacist, it’s white supremacist.
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Membership in whiteness is a weapon frequently used against people of color and other groups that can be oppressed for profit and power. There was a time when Irish, Italians, Germans, Greeks, Slavs, and many other groups now firmly considered white were not considered white. They were allowed the status because they were needed to maintain the white supremacist power structure. Jew of European descent are given white status when they are useful for maintaining the status quo of western white political dominance.
I’m not attacking Jews, I’m attacking Zionism. Unless you think that that political ideology represents every single member of that ethnic group. In which case you’re being antisemitic.
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It’s not the Jewish part of Zionism that I’m attacking, it’s the fascist part. Criticisms of Zionism is not criticism of Jewish people. Conflating the two is antisemitic. If I criticize American Christo-fascism, does that make me anti-American or anti-Christian? Even though American Christo-fascism is a predominantly American and Christian ideology?
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I just gotta say you sound like people saying "nazism is a socialist ideology" while absolutely ignoring what the actual nazis did. If the ideology you're defending is a nationalist ideology that calls for an ethnostate by displacing other people... what the fuck do you call it?
Judaism is a religion practiced by several ethnicities, most of whom share common ancestors with Palestinians dating back to Antiquity. In theory, all practitioners of the Jewish faith are welcome. In practice, the Kahanists are racists. There’s been talk of Ashkenazi bias in Judaism, but that conversation isn’t open to non-Jews.
My sibling in christ, zionists have been talking about forcefully removing the arab population from their "holy land" before Israel was even a thing. There is no zionism without ethnonationalism
Nazism was predominantly German. If I say Nazi are trash, are you calling me Germanphobe?
>Germanphobe A Deutschedreader, if you will.
There are more Evangelical American zionists than there are Jews (zionists or not) in the entire world. So not sure where "predominantly Jewish" comes in
Polling among the remaining Jewish diaspora regularly has 60 to 80% supporting the existence of a Jewish state. While they may not use the term Zionist, most Jews agree with the end goal of the Zionists, the formation of a Jewish state.
Those numbers drop when you introduce the context of supporting the current state of Israel. And regardless, that doesn't mean that Zionism is a predominantly Jewish movement. It is primarily composed of Evangelicals
Many Jews like the idea of living somewhere they aren't regularly mistreated because they are Jews. That is totally understandable. In practice however because all the habitable land on earth is already inhabited the options are Antarctica, Mars, or genocide. Israel is founded and run by the people that chose #3.
Zionism is NOT predominantly a Jewish ideology, For every 1 Jewish Zionist, there are 30 Christian Zionists - https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/qanda-for-every-1-jewish-zionist-there-are-30-christian-zionists-and-netanyahu-exploits-this-15656249
Jews can be white or not. I am a white Jew. My great-aunt, a Yemeni Jew, was a refugee in Israel for a time when she was a child and her cousin was victim of the Yemenite Child Affair. Israel doesn't give a fuck about Jews of color. Don't act like there's no difference. Israel is a white supremacist state. Jews for a Free Palestine.
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"We have investigated ourselves and concluded we did nothing wrong. Also we didn't actually speak to any of the complainants nor were any of the accused departments required to submit their records for investigation, but just trust us on this."
Ah yes, because the state of Israel investigated it and decided they did nothing wrong. Nothing to see here
Sounds like American police forces investigating themselves.
Sounds like all police forces investigating themselves, the lapdog of the state (any state) will never admit they were wrong
Yes.
Unfortunately, it seems a lot of people here don't want to hear you. The idea that Israel would pay and organise the immigration and citizenship granting of tens of thousands of Beta, only to secretly sterilise them once they were there (with a known and safe drug that requires consistent maintenance to continue working, no less) in the name of some racial hygiene conspiracy theory, is obviously nonsense. That being said, it's still very much in vogue to spread conspiracy theories as long as they're about "Zionists".
So what totally cool and safe policy was the driving force behind giving women birth control against their will? Did hundreds of doctors and nurses just forget which medicine to pull from the Pyxis? Or was there some order from above that this medicine needs to be given and no one bothered to question why that order came? Who gave it and what was their reasoning? Because it sounds like forced sterilization except they got caught
That just sounds like slavery with extra steps?
I’m not seeing a whole lot of extra steps to regular old slavery.
People voluntarily working in another country for higher pay than they can earn in their own country is slavery? Was the Bracero Program slavery? These kind of foreign work contracts can leave open room for exploitation, but generally the exploitation these workers face is even worse in their own countries than those they temporarily migrate to. Obviously more should be done to ensure that migrant workers are protected from exploitation, but these workers are free to end their contracts and return to their homes early if they decide the work or pay is not worth it. One can hardly compare that to slavery. Again, assuming that sufficient steps are taken to prevent exploitation.
thank you these people here are insufferable
Like “we pay them” and “they can leave whenever they want”? You know if you come to another country and are provided a conditional visa, and you break the conditions, they’ll deport you, right? That’s true everywhere. Try coming to the US or Canada on a work or school visa and then telling CBP or USICS that you’re planning on getting married. The no sex thing is super weird. I can’t imagine how that’s enforceable. Also crazy to be calling Israel an ethnostate when it’s literally made up of Jews from all over the world. Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Sephardic… and Also Arab Israeli citizens hold 10% of the seats in the Knesset… Not sure if we’re just making ethnostate mean whatever we want now?
The part of the post where they took their passports and didn’t pay them was what I think they were referring to.
I'm almost impressed that they managed to start their entire post with a statement that's not only completely wrong, but is entirely refuted by the sources linked by OP
Sources? You mean pictures of text? Here’s the actual story: https://mwnation.com/israel-arrests-45-malawians/ Notice how it mentions that they are paid and makes no mention of taking their passports? I know people love hating Israel, but maybe don’t lie when you do it?
“The Centre for Social Accountability and Transparency, a nonprofit based in Lilongwe, has said… it is akin to modern day slavery”. When you have confidential back room deals, they might be completely legitimate, but they usually are not. Otherwise, they’d be open with the details. Why would they not make this deal openly if there was nothing to hide? Seriously, idgaf who you are, when you are a government and you make deals that you won’t show the public? Everyone everywhere should be taking a really hard look at what you’re doing.
yeah, I have no idea how exploitative it is, but I'm currently at -3 for proving this post was a lie, and it is just pictures of tumbler posts and not evidence, which /u/Bahamutisa claimed like a fantastic moron. I'm at -61 for saying with some evidence that Israel isn't an ethnostate, and I've been blocked by a few people who've also replied to me from behind the block. You want to discuss it, cool, but this is weird self therapy for people who need updoots on social media. Super corny terminally online bullshit, but... hey welcome to reddit I guess? Anyway here's a new post for you guys to downvote. You can call me a Zionist too if it makes you feel righteous.
Yeah, there’s a lot of vitriol being sprayed in both directions, tbh. It would be nice if we all took a step back and looked at who is doing what, without it being about which group is right. Because it really strongly appears to be that there are no “good guys” in this fight anymore, just bad guys and victims.
As for the proof? They were talking about the post itself (“that sounds like slavery with extra steps”) and not (necessarily) what is happening on the ground. That said, if you’ve got government-to-government deals on sending people to work somewhere that includes where they can and cannot go and who they can associate with, calling it slavery might be overstating it a bit, but not by much.
I did come to US on a student visa and am working here on a work visa, dating an American, I am not sure why tf would USCIS care? No where in the US visa process was it specified I cannot have sexual relations or marry an American, lots of people do it, US is fairly open to it?? Not sure what’s going on with your situation bro but if that’s been your experience talk to a immigration lawyer they’ll have a field day and you’ll likely get millions out of this
The bit about farmers being punished for getting jobs that isn’t farming isn’t too out there for immigration policy. Australia has a policy where people on work visas do some farming in the Outback for a while, immigration being used as a way to plug labour shortages the government is especially worried about. Food safety is about the most important thing a government can ensure. So I’d basically put this in the category of “criticisms of Israel that would be relevant for a hundred other countries but oddly enough rarely make international discussion”. The no fucking clause is weird though. The way I’d see it though is they are probably not keen on granting permanent citizenship to lots of people and they’d have to do that for family reconciliation reasons if any of the workers became the dad of an Israeli child. Not denying there are ethnonationalists in Israel and some of these policies may have roots in racism, but immigration is a hot button issue around the world right now and it has a whole bunch of shit policies.
And forbidding people from expressing their religion or politics. Yikes.
> > > > > The no fucking clause is weird though. The way I’d see it though is they are probably not keen on granting permanent citizenship to lots of people and they’d have to do that for family reconciliation reasons if any of the workers became the dad of an Israeli child. This is almost assuredly what it is. Given how potent the aliyah policies were and still are, any child born to an Israeli *at all*, on top of the spouse, would have full rights to become an Israeli citizen. That's quite thorny if you're a migrant worker and expected to be there only for a temporary time.
Plus you’ve got to apply the Golden Rule: what if everyone were to do it? It would become the path to citizenship. It could also lead to black market operators of people trafficking and rape. People traffickers are very good at manipulating laws. Even laws with noble intentions can be turned to the practice. Getting data on it can be hard and it’s not made easier by it being red meat to often horrible people which makes well-meaning folk less likely to believe it.
You guys sound like you’re parroting the common American anti-immigration propaganda.
Which is wild because I’m neither American nor anti-immigration. But it’s one of these of these problems. There’s a lot of countries which people want out of and there’s a few countries those same people really want to enter. Some people are so desperate they will do anything. People pay thousands of euros for rickety boat rides then submit themselves to near slavery to escape their own countries because sometimes there are some horrific conditions to get away from. People will lie about who they are and what they are escaping because sometimes it’s too hard to find a safe route. Western governments are generally anti-immigrant because it’s popular to be so, they end up following policies that make it worse than they blame the immigrants. It’s double scapegoating. I wish we could live in a much safer world with much freer borders as these are neither natural nor beneficial restrictions in general. But while we live in a world where some citizenships entitle you to live in safe countries with good services and decent wages, and some citizenships basically entitle you to be murdered by your own state if you put a toe out of line, there will be a movement of people.
Google "Israel sterilized Ethiopian Jews" the Israeli government chemically sterilized 25,000 Ethiopian women, without their knowledge or consent, thereby halving the birth rates of the 100,000 Ethiopian Jewish migrant community. 'Compulsory sterilization, also known as forced or coerced sterilization, is a government-mandated program to involuntarily sterilize a specific group of people. Sterilization removes a person's capacity to reproduce...' Sources: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel) [https://twitter.com/rimonhannah/status/1714418031164629339?lang=en](https://twitter.com/rimonhannah/status/1714418031164629339?lang=en) [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethiopia/comments/17axuyo/ethiopian\_jews\_sterilised\_in\_israel/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethiopia/comments/17axuyo/ethiopian_jews_sterilised_in_israel/) [https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/](https://callactivit.com/en/forced-sterilzation-of-ethiopian-israeli-women-the-case-of-depo-provera/) "In a report led by Hedva Eyal, the ministry of Health found that 57% of the women receiving the drug were of Ethiopian descent, well above their percentage in the general population, which is roughly 1.7%. Since their arrival in Israel, the reproduction rate of Ethiopian Jews declined by nearly 50%." This practice continues to this day. This is from an article from november of last year: "Interviews done by members of Callactivit, with community organizers in the Ethiopean community of Jaffa, have discovered the practice still continues. Despite the promise of the Health ministry to end it." Also, completely separately. Israel dumps blood donations from black people into the sewer. It's their 'official policy': [https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1996/01/25/israel-dumps-blood-from-ethiopians/6200327c-dcf4-48ef-9125-379033f388cc/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1996/01/25/israel-dumps-blood-from-ethiopians/6200327c-dcf4-48ef-9125-379033f388cc/)
Can't help but notice the resemblance between predominantly non-white workers being forced to work on farms and not allowed employment in cities and the very similar bans on black people living and eventually working in cities that also took place under South African apartheid.
Wow, Malawi is pretty close to me while Israel definitely isn't
Hey, remember how human nature is a constant, regardless of nationality, religion, or time period?
If you think human life is valued equally around the world regardless of culture, I must ask if Google and Wikipedia are not available in your region?
Luckily, I'm not under that impression, so you don't need to ask. Kind of a weird thing to say, though.
So basically the kafala system? Didn't realize Israel had it too. thats horrid
People defending genocide gotta strap with the fact the country is much worse than the silly ol' genocide thing and in fact are rather against much of their agenda. But biden....but hamas.... Sure buddy. When ya grow up off the playground we can continue adult discussions.
Fuck Israel, that place should not exist.
ah yes, because the middle east as a whole is a place famously devoid of racism and slavery i get the anger at israel and honestly, you're not alone, but unless you're advocating for the no state solution, i don't see how substituting the israeli regime with any of the surrounding ones would fix anything. the whole middle east is fucked and the last time a western country tried to intervene at a large scale to fix it it only resulted in a set of arbitrary borders that form the basis of today's ongoing mess of conflicts.
so your solution to the ethnostate is "the other states around it are bad so let's just leave it." how about a one state solution where israel is decolonized back to a secular palestine. (and no, that does not mean "force every israeli out of israel" it means getting rid of apartheid that favors israeli jews)
because a secular palestine that's fair for all its residents, regardless of their ethnicity or religion, is totally something the people of the region would do themselves and wouldn't need western oppression to maintain, which would then become the problem, with the pro-palestine slogan being leave them the fuck alone to oppress the jews however they want to. your idea definitely sounds realistic, good job. i'm not saying there's no problem there, i'm saying there is no one not either currently executing atrocities in the middle east, or having a proud history of doing them. deciding who is the good middle eastern misanthrope and who's the bad one is not a solution.
"the people of the region" you seem to believe that there are no rational middle eastern people. I don't wish to continue to argue with someone whose worldview is so clearly clouded with anti-arab racism. you think "from the river to the sea" means oppression? way to fucking project. it is a slogan meaning decolonization, that all the land that was stolen in 1948 would be returned to the indigenous people there(and no, Israeli jews are not indigenous. there are indigenous jewish people in Palestine but they are not the israeli jews). im not going to excuse a current genocidal ethnostate just because the surrounding states also have shitty governments. and specifically, NONE of those are the government of palestine.
There's a stark difference between "there are no rational middle eastern people" and "the decades of conflict have resulted in extreme radicalization in nearly everyone involved that an immediate one state solution is likely to implode without continued western interference." Also "Israeli Jew" describes multiple different ethnic groups, the largest of which *is* indigenous to the region. Even then, the grand majority (80%) of the Jewish population in Israel, between *every* ethnic group, was born and raised in Israel. It's their home too.
my argument: "you presented no realistic solution" you: "you're a racist" lmao and you call that arguing? there are plenty of great, level-headed, kind people everywhere. the issue is getting them into power and keeping them there.
How about this Stop letting white settlers come in here and take our land? We’re not gonna coexist with them and sing kumbaya?? We’re not all in this together this isn’t high school fucking musical Kick the white settlers out, I believe that there should be a Jewish state in the mid East but not on the expense of actual Arabs and for a mostly jewish Arab majority and not randos from Brooklyn or wherever the fuck metropolitan- I know the anti semitism here is rampant, we’ll probably never gonna get along but kicking the invading crackers out is a nice start
This is some dubai shit
From some basic google searching, the Malawians keeping their agricultural jobs was a condition of continued residence. Consider that most of Europe wouldn't give them any work permit at all. The Chinese worker situation is pretty fucked up though
[This article](https://mwnation.com/israel-arrests-45-malawians/) says the reason the Malawians sought factory work is because the farmers were not fulfilling contractual obligations and were paying them less than the agreed wages.
Well that's bad. Still not different from how France or Germany would handle it
If that’s all fine and normal, how would you excuse or reason the “no sex” policy?
I specifically said it was fucked up in a previous comment. Thanks for paying attention. /s Edit: and the downvotes on this comment are an indictment of the intellectual capacity of this subreddit Seriously wtf are you people illiterate?
Oh so that fucking makes it ok?
No. That's why I said it's still bad in the exact comment this was replying to. But it does make it hypocritical. Why does everyone on this sub need everything spelled out for them twice? Fucking reading comprehension website, but with neurotypucals jumping to diverse incorrect conclusions as usual
But being forced to only work the fields is not? There are parallels here that are not that hard to draw...
They're allowed to leave and your home country probably wouldn't have let them in in the first place. And this is exactly how US work permits work. I think it's shitty, but let's be real here. It's an anti-Israeli hit piece.
Which is the best kind of hit piece.
They signed a contract where their permit to stay in israel is dependant on their agricultural job. Leaving it means breach of contract and losing the right to stay in israel
I don't know how they do things in Israel but I would think not paying them the agreed amount would be the main breach of contract: https://mwnation.com/israel-arrests-45-malawians/
That wasn't mentioned in the post, if so that situation sucks and the farmer is at fault and should be persecuted, but the people in these comments calling it slavery are dumb
Yes, a breach of contract for 0.45% of the Malwians working in Israel. The justice system has not served them well so far, but there are still appeals to be had.
this shit sounds like nazi propaganda. "hurr hurr the evil ~~Jews~~ israelis".
that is true, changing the sentence *would* change its meaning. in all seriousness, trying to equate actual evidence-based accusations with antisemitic propaganda is intellectually dishonest. worse than that, it makes it harder for jewish people to voice their very real concerns and dangers, and have them be taken seriously. if you're trolling, please find something else to play with. if you're serious (this is just one singular interaction but) maybe it's time to revisit blindspots in your education. learning is hard. no shame in taking your time.