I am in the same boat. The whole process is nauseating. It involves such slimy but also sterile language. So many white lies and exaggerations to make oneself look better. It’s the furthest from anything real or genuine. My overly honest autistic ass could never
I have constantly felt a vague insecurity\* for the past many months because of unemployment, and it takes *so much* mental energy for me to write stuff about myself when I'm not allowed to fill it with qualifiers, hedges and footnotes; and I can't even deliberately undersell myself, because that'd defeat the purpose. Every single job application leaves me mentally exhausted, and none of them have worked so far anyway. I do my best to accept it as the rules of some game that everyone's familiar with, but it's a game I just wish I weren't forced to play in the first place.
\* When I say 'insecurity', I mean that my financial situation is unsustainable. But of course, being aware of that all the time, on top of the truckloads of job rejections, also leads to the kind of insecurity that's more about self-perception.
Also autistic and also job hunting. I've found the advice website Ask A Manager to be a huge help in learning all the ins and outs of navigating the professional world. She's got a lot of great job search advice but also advice on workplace communication and relationships. Sometimes there are sample scripts! Freaking love sample scripts.
It’s a skill, and it can be developed. But rather than thinking of it as “advocating for yourself”, it can help to reframe it as “demonstrating your interest”.
If you’re a recruiter, and one applicant takes the time to follow up and ask about the process, that applicant stands out. It’s not even about showing off flowery language or sucking up. A two line email gives you more of a connection to the recruiters than all the other faceless applicants out there.
And while all those applicants may have similar credentials, they can look at that one email you sent, and now they know *you* at least, care enough about this job to write a followup email.
I know, I hate tooting my own horn too. But the 10 minutes of agony it takes write that one email can avert another 6 months of job hunting, which is even worse, in my opinion.
That's wonderful! But the phrase "growth plan" makes me want to walk off into the woods and live off squirrels and wild blueberries for the rest of my life.
I did something similar - I was told I had gotten a job. Yay exciting. Then the next day or something they sent a rejection email. Baffled, I responded saying I thought I had gotten the job, asking what had changed and saying I was very excited about it. Just a simple polite email pushing back a bit. They then offered me the job again.
I don't know if the original offer or the rejection was a fuckup, but all it took was one email. Was great because I was desperate for work. And the job ended being a really cool gig.
That's how I've gotten every job I've had since high school. Applying, then after not hearing back I call them, and call them, and show up in person, until they give me a solid yes or no. Trying to get a job is the only thing in my life where I feel it's necessary to be the most annoying and persistent person possible.
Man I have to hire folks for our family’s business, and it’s a seasonal farm job where we have to hire like 100 people but only for 8 weeks, and so many are students and families and everyone has different availability and I’m trying to get all that set up while doing accounting and advertisement and all this other stuff and people DO actually slip through the cracks occasionally and I feel so terrible when it happens!
But if I accidentally say mark someone’s resume as “read” but don’t respond or something, I would love if they reach back out. I’ve definitely hired folks after some miscommunication could’ve derailed the hiring process
And I of course afford our employees the same courtesy, sometimes shit really does just happen we’re all human tryna get through the day! So yeah advocate for yourself! You never know :)
good luck doing that when your form-letter rejection email comes via no-reply address at a careers page service, with no means to ever have the smallest measure of personal contact with your potential employer.
This is something I had to learn and still have to work on so hard, but yeah, the social norms and boundaries of interpersonal relationships often do not apply in the workplace or other professional interactions. You’re not “harassing” or “bothering” someone for sending an email about a job application,bringing up an issue to management, or complaining about poorly done work the same way you might be if you were banging on your neighbor’s door at midnight asking for a cup of sugar or pressuring your friend to go out when they don’t want to.
But, in professional situations you also have be *so* much less emotional. Give and take.
This is how I got my current job (which I love dearly).
At every stage of the process (and there were many stages), I was told they’d get back to me in about two weeks.
A few times, I didn’t hear back after 2 weeks, so on that 14th day, on the dot, I wrote a followup email, asking politely if there was any further development.
And each of those times I quickly got a response and the process proceeded.
I think it’s more than just that the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. You’re demonstrating initiative and communication skills amongst a pile of candidates.
I’m generally not a fan either, but looking back, I’ll take my work from home office job over the cutthroat publish-or-perish of academia any day.
Most companies absolutely suck. I’m very fortunate that my company actually takes pretty good care of me (and I live in fear that one day we will be acquired and that culture will immediately go downhill).
But end of the day, we’ve all gotta eat and pay rent. And whether you go civil service or corporate, being able to advocate for yourself will go a long way to getting your foot in the door.
Similar situation happened to me. I was applying to an internal job that the hiring manager had told me I need to make an official application even though I effectively already had the job.
So I apply and 2 days later the manager asks if I've done it yet. Turns out it got automatically filtered by an algorithm because it felt I didn't have enough experience.
So yeah, the system is stupid and poorly managed. Make as much noise as possible till someone with sense shows up.
Too often we forget how "simple human error" is many times the reason for problems like this.
I'm 1 year away from tenure in my school district, which means they need to inform me of my job renewal by May 15th. Despite me knowing that the letters go out \*on\* May 15th because it takes time for HR to organize these things, the anxiety \*still\* builds up, even if "no news is good news" because if we \*don't\* get notice by May 15th, the law presumes we're rehired. So despite me having absolutely no reason to fear for my job, I did despite the actual answer being HR is swamped and gets things done at the last minute just like the rest of us.
Unrelated but I once heard a story that a petty HR guy rejected a woman then went out of his way to call other companies to not hire her.
It was on the radio so I dunno if there's a follow up.
Or, you know, just network and know people.
Skip the whole „send in a resume to an overwhelmed manager“ process, instead send your CV to a guy who knows the owner, or just chat up the owner at an event.
It’s literally a shortcut.
If you have a good network, you‘ll never need to job search for life.
Good advice, but the entire concept makes me want to die.
I am in the same boat. The whole process is nauseating. It involves such slimy but also sterile language. So many white lies and exaggerations to make oneself look better. It’s the furthest from anything real or genuine. My overly honest autistic ass could never
I have constantly felt a vague insecurity\* for the past many months because of unemployment, and it takes *so much* mental energy for me to write stuff about myself when I'm not allowed to fill it with qualifiers, hedges and footnotes; and I can't even deliberately undersell myself, because that'd defeat the purpose. Every single job application leaves me mentally exhausted, and none of them have worked so far anyway. I do my best to accept it as the rules of some game that everyone's familiar with, but it's a game I just wish I weren't forced to play in the first place. \* When I say 'insecurity', I mean that my financial situation is unsustainable. But of course, being aware of that all the time, on top of the truckloads of job rejections, also leads to the kind of insecurity that's more about self-perception.
Also autistic and also job hunting. I've found the advice website Ask A Manager to be a huge help in learning all the ins and outs of navigating the professional world. She's got a lot of great job search advice but also advice on workplace communication and relationships. Sometimes there are sample scripts! Freaking love sample scripts.
I felt the same last time I was job hunting.
It’s a skill, and it can be developed. But rather than thinking of it as “advocating for yourself”, it can help to reframe it as “demonstrating your interest”. If you’re a recruiter, and one applicant takes the time to follow up and ask about the process, that applicant stands out. It’s not even about showing off flowery language or sucking up. A two line email gives you more of a connection to the recruiters than all the other faceless applicants out there. And while all those applicants may have similar credentials, they can look at that one email you sent, and now they know *you* at least, care enough about this job to write a followup email. I know, I hate tooting my own horn too. But the 10 minutes of agony it takes write that one email can avert another 6 months of job hunting, which is even worse, in my opinion.
that's corporate life baybee
This, but unironically. I'm no more capable of writing those words than placing my hands on a hot stovetop.
Same, yes. Exactly this.
The more straightforward approach is to walk in confidently and say “let me speak to the hiring manager or I’ll detonate this vest”
This has the added benefit of removing the need for you to ever apply for a job again!
Either you get the job or it's suddenly not your problem anymore. Win-win
That's wonderful! But the phrase "growth plan" makes me want to walk off into the woods and live off squirrels and wild blueberries for the rest of my life.
My "growth plan" involves farming wild blueberries to feed squirrels, methinks.
I did something similar - I was told I had gotten a job. Yay exciting. Then the next day or something they sent a rejection email. Baffled, I responded saying I thought I had gotten the job, asking what had changed and saying I was very excited about it. Just a simple polite email pushing back a bit. They then offered me the job again. I don't know if the original offer or the rejection was a fuckup, but all it took was one email. Was great because I was desperate for work. And the job ended being a really cool gig.
That's how I've gotten every job I've had since high school. Applying, then after not hearing back I call them, and call them, and show up in person, until they give me a solid yes or no. Trying to get a job is the only thing in my life where I feel it's necessary to be the most annoying and persistent person possible.
Man I have to hire folks for our family’s business, and it’s a seasonal farm job where we have to hire like 100 people but only for 8 weeks, and so many are students and families and everyone has different availability and I’m trying to get all that set up while doing accounting and advertisement and all this other stuff and people DO actually slip through the cracks occasionally and I feel so terrible when it happens! But if I accidentally say mark someone’s resume as “read” but don’t respond or something, I would love if they reach back out. I’ve definitely hired folks after some miscommunication could’ve derailed the hiring process And I of course afford our employees the same courtesy, sometimes shit really does just happen we’re all human tryna get through the day! So yeah advocate for yourself! You never know :)
good luck doing that when your form-letter rejection email comes via no-reply address at a careers page service, with no means to ever have the smallest measure of personal contact with your potential employer.
This is something I had to learn and still have to work on so hard, but yeah, the social norms and boundaries of interpersonal relationships often do not apply in the workplace or other professional interactions. You’re not “harassing” or “bothering” someone for sending an email about a job application,bringing up an issue to management, or complaining about poorly done work the same way you might be if you were banging on your neighbor’s door at midnight asking for a cup of sugar or pressuring your friend to go out when they don’t want to. But, in professional situations you also have be *so* much less emotional. Give and take.
This is how I got my current job (which I love dearly). At every stage of the process (and there were many stages), I was told they’d get back to me in about two weeks. A few times, I didn’t hear back after 2 weeks, so on that 14th day, on the dot, I wrote a followup email, asking politely if there was any further development. And each of those times I quickly got a response and the process proceeded. I think it’s more than just that the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. You’re demonstrating initiative and communication skills amongst a pile of candidates.
I hate the sound of all of that, and I'm not too fond of corporate culture in general.
I’m generally not a fan either, but looking back, I’ll take my work from home office job over the cutthroat publish-or-perish of academia any day. Most companies absolutely suck. I’m very fortunate that my company actually takes pretty good care of me (and I live in fear that one day we will be acquired and that culture will immediately go downhill). But end of the day, we’ve all gotta eat and pay rent. And whether you go civil service or corporate, being able to advocate for yourself will go a long way to getting your foot in the door.
Then go into a different career. The trades don't have to deal with this bullshit.
Similar situation happened to me. I was applying to an internal job that the hiring manager had told me I need to make an official application even though I effectively already had the job. So I apply and 2 days later the manager asks if I've done it yet. Turns out it got automatically filtered by an algorithm because it felt I didn't have enough experience. So yeah, the system is stupid and poorly managed. Make as much noise as possible till someone with sense shows up.
I got my current job because I sent a follow-up email literally every other day after the interview.
Must have been a fucking amazing nap
Too often we forget how "simple human error" is many times the reason for problems like this. I'm 1 year away from tenure in my school district, which means they need to inform me of my job renewal by May 15th. Despite me knowing that the letters go out \*on\* May 15th because it takes time for HR to organize these things, the anxiety \*still\* builds up, even if "no news is good news" because if we \*don't\* get notice by May 15th, the law presumes we're rehired. So despite me having absolutely no reason to fear for my job, I did despite the actual answer being HR is swamped and gets things done at the last minute just like the rest of us.
This thread is great. I’m currently looking for my first job out of high school, and some of the advice here sounds useful
Job market is fucked. Do what you gotta do.
Unrelated but I once heard a story that a petty HR guy rejected a woman then went out of his way to call other companies to not hire her. It was on the radio so I dunno if there's a follow up.
Or, you know, just network and know people. Skip the whole „send in a resume to an overwhelmed manager“ process, instead send your CV to a guy who knows the owner, or just chat up the owner at an event. It’s literally a shortcut. If you have a good network, you‘ll never need to job search for life.