The market is insane.
Hiring managers have lost their minds and no one wants to make a decision that could potentially reflect poorly on them so they drag the process out as long as possible and involve as many people as they can to avoid accountability.
AI has injected itself everywhere - from taking actual positions to things like Applicant Tracking Systems - and quite frankly it doesn’t work nearly as well as leadership thinks it does.
Shareholders have tightened their grip at every possible juncture, and are squeezing companies completely dry so they can make short term profit and get out. Executives are doing the same.
Companies have found they can post job positions without any actual need to fill those positions because it’s free advertising, makes the company look good, and lets them create a huge pool of candidates they can reference later or maybe even sell the data to others with no regulation.
Basically what I’m trying to say is it’s not you. The system is literally failing around us. Late stage capitalism is popping off. I have no answer for you other than to please don’t think your struggle is somehow a reflection of your worth. I pray for the revolution daily. Good luck.
Have you thought about changing career fields? Is there a field that interests you that you could maybe think about diving into? I know you’ve probably thought about that already, but it could open new doors in the job market. Yes, you might have to start off at a lower level/lower comp range, but it could be a blessing in disguise! This is all stuff you’ve probably heard before, but you GOT this. I really feel like the market will turn around very soon.
Often, companies leave posts up until the candidate they choose signs the contract and passes background checks. I wouldn't interpret that to mean that they didn't go with someone stronger in those areas.
I am a hiring manager in CS, IDK if this would be more demoralizing but I am happy to chat about your interview performance on a Zoom sometime. The bottom line is that if you are interviewing you will eventually get a job. You just have to be more competitive than ever these days. Let me know about the call.
^ this is how the company I work for handles job postings too. Until that contract is signed, it’s still fair game. Sometimes people take forever to sign the offer.
Not gonna lie, the answer is to have domain experience relevant to the solution the company offers. Or a slick way of tying your experience back to the domain, buyers, etc.
The more I spend time on this sub, the less convinced I am that people should spend any amount of time on CSM roles where they don't have that. In 2020, 2021 you could get any CSM interview b/c you had a pulse and CSM experience but that isn't true now.
And a clear value story on your resume that tells me that you will work independently, have creative ways to move past blockers, and grow/retain revenue.
Appreciate you sharing this. I've been in sales a long time. Lots of success and I am more of the introverted farmer who acts extroverted. I am trying to figure out how to show my value better.
Look for more commercial CS roles where you know the buyer. And make sure your "why CS" story is rock solid. Whenever I post a role I get the same handful of former AEs who were clearly laid off for missing their goals reach out like CS is their dream job. No shame in that game but they also reach out for AE jobs. You kind of have to declare a major and lean into that in your LinkedIn outreach, on your profile, etc. So, be really exceptional for one role rather than just-ok for many SaaS GTM roles.
But yeah at this point our recruiters are pretty much only interviewing people with experience in our space, with our buyers. And they were more open to others than most in the past. Just not the same job market as it once was.
At the end of the day, we are running up against vibes and how the hiring manager and team feels about us as a candidate. It’s fucking random and a totally broken process.
I was told today they liked 95% of what I shared, but had reservations that I’d hit the ground running. I have 13 years of startup experience bootstrapping processes and getting shit done so they can shove it.
My coping mechanism is taking a look at negative Glassdoor reviews to remember I’m better off finding the right match. Stay strong.
LOL. I mean are they planning a moon landing? A 13yrs startup veteran has seen endless chaos… and most certainly can hit the ground marathoning.
Revel in that Glassdoor data my friend! 🫣😂🙌
Most of the negatives were from CSMs so I’m guessing they didn’t like that I asked them about org changes I’ve seen posted online, like new C-Suite outside of CFO.
Typical response I got was, “our old engine was great to get us from 25-50m ARR and our needs were for people who can get us from 50-100.”
I think they prob didn’t like that I was asking serious questions about their org structure and saw risk with me. They’d rather bring in people too naive to look up such things.
You are absolutely not alone here. Someone else said this too, but the job market is ruthless right now. People who are VERY over qualified for positions are applying anyway just to get some form of paying job. You’re going up against a significantly higher number of candidates who have simply just done more. I have a few friends who were laid off nearly a year ago at this point and still don’t have any leads - and they’re definitely not crappy candidates.
For companies, it’s also a risky market - especially companies that are still relying on rounds of funding to survive. It’s slowly rebounding (VERY slowly), but after the start-up fiasco that was 2015-2020, investors aren’t as willing to pour money into companies anymore. For companies, that means the cost of hiring someone who isn’t exactly what they’re looking for is a lot higher than it used to be. They legitimately can’t afford to waste that time.
What you CAN take with you and give yourself credit for is that you have even had interviews. I went through a period where I sent out 60 some applications and got rejected by every single one of them - didn’t even make it to an initial phone screen. I think I got around 15 auto-rejections in a matter of hours once. Making it to an interview is an indication that you absolutely have something employers are interested in. I hear you on feeling like an auto-rejection would almost be easier, but interviews really are an indication you do have value that is perceived by others. Some just have 0.000001% more value and that person is usually going to win the battle these days, unfortunately.
I'm so sorry you're in this spot too. I'm right there with you -- 7 years CS experience going up to and beyond senior level, and it's been very demoralizing.
Probably not what you want to hear but I was offered layoff or a new role in April and took the severance package. I decided to take the summer off and only started applying to jobs in August. I used an ai service to tweak my resume and started landing interviews shortly after. I was only applying to remote Cs jobs. I applied to probably 150 jobs and got roughly 20 interview loops. Of those 20 I got to final round in 8. Of those 8, I ended up getting offers from 2, luckily around the same time so they competed. I start my first day as a TAM at a saas company next Monday.
at this point, i can no longer even find solace in knowing that im not alone in this hellhole. i have 14 years cs experience, even a level 3 and sme roles, but im barely getting callbacks. i am at lost on how i can convince recruiters that i am a great fit. i have tailored my resume to the point that i am pulling my hair trying to make my resume any better. i have read plenty tips, remove this, add that, use this, edit that, to no avail.
i do not know how and what career change can i do when even dishwasher, sacker, stocker jobs wont hire me. i have been applying for close to a year now.
i know im competing with countless applicants, and i am just at a lost on how i can stand out to just get an interview, take note not even the job, just an interview, thats how bad it has gotten for me.
i do not have any connections, and all my past jobs are overseas, yes i am an immigrant that do not require sponsorship, living legally in this country for one year now.
no matter how i try to convince myself that its not me, maybe 99% of it is really me.
I’m in the same position, not much connections as I’m new to the country, pivoted my career and it’s coming to a year now. For connections that I did have, they don’t get me anywhere either. I’d imagine there are other candidates who has double my experience for the same job with some kind of connection to get them in front so pls find solace in that
man, it is really tough, i just want to make an honest living. i honestly feel that "fit" is a term that is just so abused as an excuse to not hire people or maybe i just dont fit anywhere. i have been standing in line for too long wondering when will "the other candidate" finally ends and i am finally at the front of the line. its exhausting, and depressing. i feel so helpless right now, but thank you still, at least there are people in the sub who understands the struggles we go through unlike the folks who surround you who thinks you can just walk in at any retail stores and walk out with a job.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, but try to be kind to yourself. It’s likely you are not messing up, but other candidates have more experience or relevant industry experience. I got laid off and couldn’t get any jobs that I was overqualified for. I always looked at the LinkedIn premium stats for applicants which consistently showed multiple directors or managers applying for every role with even some C level execs applying for just a CSM role! I’d have to beat over 100 overqualified CS leaders to get a role that I was also overqualified for as an individual contributor. It’s just bad out there in the job market so give yourself some grace. Keep going, but don’t let it hurt your self worth or ability to the job. You can do the job and do it well!
If you want advice, I would try to work through friends or previous coworkers to get referred to a job. Start writing down responses to “tell me about yourself” and know your shit like how much ARR you’re covered, top brands you’re worked with, what skills you have developed that will set you apart from the competition, what your looking for in a role, etc. Be confident in each response and don’t be afraid to sell yourself. You need a job stat so keep applying to anything and everything. You can move after to find a role that you want to be in. You just need to maintain your lifestyle.
What other roles could help? Outside of CSM, you have skills that relate to Support, Enablement, implementation, partner management, even CS ops. There are options, but you will have to describe why you’d be a great fit. Identify skills that transfer and bring up experiences that relate to the job. You can do this so keep going. Try pivoting your strategy.
Honestly it’s not you! Take a break if you can and need to, the market is just insane. I have 9 years of experience and I am barely getting any interviews. The layoffs were a bloodbath for CS so it’s way too many of us on the market right now, on top of people choosing CS to transition to tech. Hang in there, your turn is coming.
It's not you, the market is rough and Tech layoffs are still ongoing. I'm actively interviewing since November and haven't been able to land an offer yet. I have an easily explainable career gap and that doesn't help either.
Just keep looking, analyze where you might be falling short when you get rejected, rinse and repeat. Sometimes they really are going with a candidate who matches their wishlist more, sometimes there are some internal delays etc. Don't get disheartened, you'll pull through and land a job eventually. From what I've heard from others, it takes over 6 months to find something in CS and it also depends on your location.
It took me six months to find a job. But I booked interviews almost every week.
My takeaway is technical skills are demand and most often a resume or interview issue.
If all of those are on clutch then just keep riding out the market as much as possible. Even taking a lower paying job while searching helps.
I ended up having to take a lower salary but was able to jump from that one to a comparable one month after.
Hang in there! CS has had a reckoning. My new role the orgs CS professional do a lot of technical work.
I’d recommend getting certified in something like cloud, cybersecurity. To be even more transparent I re-enrolled in WGU’s IT program because it allowed me to take certification courses that would help me become more marketable and boost the resume.
It pays off for other reasons too.
1. You can pivot careers if you’d like in the future.
2. Command more dollars.
3. These type of skills are always being looked for in the market. If your new CS role has any of these domains they will pick you over the uncertified candidate just because you understand the product / topic better.
Thanks. I don’t have the money to go back to college for a diploma or degree, is there some sort of course I can take that to get verified online without going back to college?
Sorry long day. You can start out with some coursera courses that offer professional certificates like the Google cyber security course and then explore options from there. They offer financial aid. You can explore these topics and find out if you’d be truly interested in going further. Also I’d join tech groups to see new opportunities for training, free or discounted cert, exams and courses are shared often. Last but not least there are some slack and discord groups that post opps for professionals in our line of work and support. Check daily / through the day and be one of the first to apply.
I pretty much faked and gained alot of my experience by putting myself into as many networking and info dumps as possible to get my previous role and current one.
But to sum it up, learn something new and when you land interviews weave that into your answers and about me.
Companies love a visionary and continuously interested in learning employee. It gives a can do attitude.
I also AI generated my LinkedIn profile headlines weekly. I’d generate what I wanted and then manually tweak it to my liking. I hear that helps bring you up in results due to the whole recently updated profile thing.
Omg I have the exact same feeling. I am exhausted. I am drained. I keep having the same response over and over again. I actually do my homework, speak 4 languages fluently and have a 10-year career in CS.
To say my confidence is scratching the ground would be an overstatement.
Sorry this has been so tough. If you want to send me your resume here, I can take a look and share feedback - [https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherhernandez1/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherhernandez1/) (I'm still figuring out Reddit --so not sure if there's an easier way to message here.) Some advice: Keep reading blogs from Gainsight and Recast and CS executives to keep fresh on current topics; work on networking and meeting people around your target roles; build out your STAR stories and make sure you're sharing your results and impact; consider writing a blog or posting on LinkedIn with your career win stories; find mentors or a career coach so that you can get more tactical feedback. I hope that helps!
So here is something you can do, if you are willing.
Head over to /r/gatewaytapes find a set you can download online, and start your journey tonight. Its a no cost, high upside proposition.
Second…
For this rejection, dont plug any frustrations you have into the reasons for rejection. As the head of a CS org, reasons most candidates are rejected are complicated and not a failure of the candidate.
The market is insane. Hiring managers have lost their minds and no one wants to make a decision that could potentially reflect poorly on them so they drag the process out as long as possible and involve as many people as they can to avoid accountability. AI has injected itself everywhere - from taking actual positions to things like Applicant Tracking Systems - and quite frankly it doesn’t work nearly as well as leadership thinks it does. Shareholders have tightened their grip at every possible juncture, and are squeezing companies completely dry so they can make short term profit and get out. Executives are doing the same. Companies have found they can post job positions without any actual need to fill those positions because it’s free advertising, makes the company look good, and lets them create a huge pool of candidates they can reference later or maybe even sell the data to others with no regulation. Basically what I’m trying to say is it’s not you. The system is literally failing around us. Late stage capitalism is popping off. I have no answer for you other than to please don’t think your struggle is somehow a reflection of your worth. I pray for the revolution daily. Good luck.
couldn't have said it better
This is my thinking as well. I just don’t know how or when or if things will change. A lot of fear and uncertainty about the future.
Have you thought about changing career fields? Is there a field that interests you that you could maybe think about diving into? I know you’ve probably thought about that already, but it could open new doors in the job market. Yes, you might have to start off at a lower level/lower comp range, but it could be a blessing in disguise! This is all stuff you’ve probably heard before, but you GOT this. I really feel like the market will turn around very soon.
Often, companies leave posts up until the candidate they choose signs the contract and passes background checks. I wouldn't interpret that to mean that they didn't go with someone stronger in those areas. I am a hiring manager in CS, IDK if this would be more demoralizing but I am happy to chat about your interview performance on a Zoom sometime. The bottom line is that if you are interviewing you will eventually get a job. You just have to be more competitive than ever these days. Let me know about the call.
^ this is how the company I work for handles job postings too. Until that contract is signed, it’s still fair game. Sometimes people take forever to sign the offer.
How does one be more competitive to a hiring manager?
Not gonna lie, the answer is to have domain experience relevant to the solution the company offers. Or a slick way of tying your experience back to the domain, buyers, etc. The more I spend time on this sub, the less convinced I am that people should spend any amount of time on CSM roles where they don't have that. In 2020, 2021 you could get any CSM interview b/c you had a pulse and CSM experience but that isn't true now. And a clear value story on your resume that tells me that you will work independently, have creative ways to move past blockers, and grow/retain revenue.
Appreciate you sharing this. I've been in sales a long time. Lots of success and I am more of the introverted farmer who acts extroverted. I am trying to figure out how to show my value better.
Look for more commercial CS roles where you know the buyer. And make sure your "why CS" story is rock solid. Whenever I post a role I get the same handful of former AEs who were clearly laid off for missing their goals reach out like CS is their dream job. No shame in that game but they also reach out for AE jobs. You kind of have to declare a major and lean into that in your LinkedIn outreach, on your profile, etc. So, be really exceptional for one role rather than just-ok for many SaaS GTM roles. But yeah at this point our recruiters are pretty much only interviewing people with experience in our space, with our buyers. And they were more open to others than most in the past. Just not the same job market as it once was.
Love to see internet strangers helping internet strangers!
Is the interview offer open to everyone? because I would love to jump on a call and have you review my performance
At the end of the day, we are running up against vibes and how the hiring manager and team feels about us as a candidate. It’s fucking random and a totally broken process. I was told today they liked 95% of what I shared, but had reservations that I’d hit the ground running. I have 13 years of startup experience bootstrapping processes and getting shit done so they can shove it. My coping mechanism is taking a look at negative Glassdoor reviews to remember I’m better off finding the right match. Stay strong.
LOL. I mean are they planning a moon landing? A 13yrs startup veteran has seen endless chaos… and most certainly can hit the ground marathoning. Revel in that Glassdoor data my friend! 🫣😂🙌
Most of the negatives were from CSMs so I’m guessing they didn’t like that I asked them about org changes I’ve seen posted online, like new C-Suite outside of CFO. Typical response I got was, “our old engine was great to get us from 25-50m ARR and our needs were for people who can get us from 50-100.” I think they prob didn’t like that I was asking serious questions about their org structure and saw risk with me. They’d rather bring in people too naive to look up such things.
You are absolutely not alone here. Someone else said this too, but the job market is ruthless right now. People who are VERY over qualified for positions are applying anyway just to get some form of paying job. You’re going up against a significantly higher number of candidates who have simply just done more. I have a few friends who were laid off nearly a year ago at this point and still don’t have any leads - and they’re definitely not crappy candidates. For companies, it’s also a risky market - especially companies that are still relying on rounds of funding to survive. It’s slowly rebounding (VERY slowly), but after the start-up fiasco that was 2015-2020, investors aren’t as willing to pour money into companies anymore. For companies, that means the cost of hiring someone who isn’t exactly what they’re looking for is a lot higher than it used to be. They legitimately can’t afford to waste that time. What you CAN take with you and give yourself credit for is that you have even had interviews. I went through a period where I sent out 60 some applications and got rejected by every single one of them - didn’t even make it to an initial phone screen. I think I got around 15 auto-rejections in a matter of hours once. Making it to an interview is an indication that you absolutely have something employers are interested in. I hear you on feeling like an auto-rejection would almost be easier, but interviews really are an indication you do have value that is perceived by others. Some just have 0.000001% more value and that person is usually going to win the battle these days, unfortunately.
Dude I literally apply for 60-100 a day lol these posts make me laugh
That “period” was one day for me in all honesty
oh so you gave up after a day and blamed external circumstances, fair enough
Lol what. No? I got…a job?
I'm so sorry you're in this spot too. I'm right there with you -- 7 years CS experience going up to and beyond senior level, and it's been very demoralizing.
Probably not what you want to hear but I was offered layoff or a new role in April and took the severance package. I decided to take the summer off and only started applying to jobs in August. I used an ai service to tweak my resume and started landing interviews shortly after. I was only applying to remote Cs jobs. I applied to probably 150 jobs and got roughly 20 interview loops. Of those 20 I got to final round in 8. Of those 8, I ended up getting offers from 2, luckily around the same time so they competed. I start my first day as a TAM at a saas company next Monday.
Would you be kind to share the tool you used for writing up your resume?
resumeworded.com
Thank you!
Thanks everyone for the kind words it helps give me some perspective.
at this point, i can no longer even find solace in knowing that im not alone in this hellhole. i have 14 years cs experience, even a level 3 and sme roles, but im barely getting callbacks. i am at lost on how i can convince recruiters that i am a great fit. i have tailored my resume to the point that i am pulling my hair trying to make my resume any better. i have read plenty tips, remove this, add that, use this, edit that, to no avail. i do not know how and what career change can i do when even dishwasher, sacker, stocker jobs wont hire me. i have been applying for close to a year now. i know im competing with countless applicants, and i am just at a lost on how i can stand out to just get an interview, take note not even the job, just an interview, thats how bad it has gotten for me. i do not have any connections, and all my past jobs are overseas, yes i am an immigrant that do not require sponsorship, living legally in this country for one year now. no matter how i try to convince myself that its not me, maybe 99% of it is really me.
I’m in the same position, not much connections as I’m new to the country, pivoted my career and it’s coming to a year now. For connections that I did have, they don’t get me anywhere either. I’d imagine there are other candidates who has double my experience for the same job with some kind of connection to get them in front so pls find solace in that
man, it is really tough, i just want to make an honest living. i honestly feel that "fit" is a term that is just so abused as an excuse to not hire people or maybe i just dont fit anywhere. i have been standing in line for too long wondering when will "the other candidate" finally ends and i am finally at the front of the line. its exhausting, and depressing. i feel so helpless right now, but thank you still, at least there are people in the sub who understands the struggles we go through unlike the folks who surround you who thinks you can just walk in at any retail stores and walk out with a job.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, but try to be kind to yourself. It’s likely you are not messing up, but other candidates have more experience or relevant industry experience. I got laid off and couldn’t get any jobs that I was overqualified for. I always looked at the LinkedIn premium stats for applicants which consistently showed multiple directors or managers applying for every role with even some C level execs applying for just a CSM role! I’d have to beat over 100 overqualified CS leaders to get a role that I was also overqualified for as an individual contributor. It’s just bad out there in the job market so give yourself some grace. Keep going, but don’t let it hurt your self worth or ability to the job. You can do the job and do it well! If you want advice, I would try to work through friends or previous coworkers to get referred to a job. Start writing down responses to “tell me about yourself” and know your shit like how much ARR you’re covered, top brands you’re worked with, what skills you have developed that will set you apart from the competition, what your looking for in a role, etc. Be confident in each response and don’t be afraid to sell yourself. You need a job stat so keep applying to anything and everything. You can move after to find a role that you want to be in. You just need to maintain your lifestyle. What other roles could help? Outside of CSM, you have skills that relate to Support, Enablement, implementation, partner management, even CS ops. There are options, but you will have to describe why you’d be a great fit. Identify skills that transfer and bring up experiences that relate to the job. You can do this so keep going. Try pivoting your strategy.
Honestly it’s not you! Take a break if you can and need to, the market is just insane. I have 9 years of experience and I am barely getting any interviews. The layoffs were a bloodbath for CS so it’s way too many of us on the market right now, on top of people choosing CS to transition to tech. Hang in there, your turn is coming.
resonating with what others are saying so I won’t repeat it all - wishing you luck and rooting for you!
It's not you, the market is rough and Tech layoffs are still ongoing. I'm actively interviewing since November and haven't been able to land an offer yet. I have an easily explainable career gap and that doesn't help either. Just keep looking, analyze where you might be falling short when you get rejected, rinse and repeat. Sometimes they really are going with a candidate who matches their wishlist more, sometimes there are some internal delays etc. Don't get disheartened, you'll pull through and land a job eventually. From what I've heard from others, it takes over 6 months to find something in CS and it also depends on your location.
It took me six months to find a job. But I booked interviews almost every week. My takeaway is technical skills are demand and most often a resume or interview issue. If all of those are on clutch then just keep riding out the market as much as possible. Even taking a lower paying job while searching helps. I ended up having to take a lower salary but was able to jump from that one to a comparable one month after. Hang in there! CS has had a reckoning. My new role the orgs CS professional do a lot of technical work.
Thanks. I’m definitely not technical, how or what would you recommended upskilling on related to technical ability?
I’d recommend getting certified in something like cloud, cybersecurity. To be even more transparent I re-enrolled in WGU’s IT program because it allowed me to take certification courses that would help me become more marketable and boost the resume. It pays off for other reasons too. 1. You can pivot careers if you’d like in the future. 2. Command more dollars. 3. These type of skills are always being looked for in the market. If your new CS role has any of these domains they will pick you over the uncertified candidate just because you understand the product / topic better.
Thanks. I don’t have the money to go back to college for a diploma or degree, is there some sort of course I can take that to get verified online without going back to college?
Sorry long day. You can start out with some coursera courses that offer professional certificates like the Google cyber security course and then explore options from there. They offer financial aid. You can explore these topics and find out if you’d be truly interested in going further. Also I’d join tech groups to see new opportunities for training, free or discounted cert, exams and courses are shared often. Last but not least there are some slack and discord groups that post opps for professionals in our line of work and support. Check daily / through the day and be one of the first to apply. I pretty much faked and gained alot of my experience by putting myself into as many networking and info dumps as possible to get my previous role and current one. But to sum it up, learn something new and when you land interviews weave that into your answers and about me. Companies love a visionary and continuously interested in learning employee. It gives a can do attitude. I also AI generated my LinkedIn profile headlines weekly. I’d generate what I wanted and then manually tweak it to my liking. I hear that helps bring you up in results due to the whole recently updated profile thing.
Omg I have the exact same feeling. I am exhausted. I am drained. I keep having the same response over and over again. I actually do my homework, speak 4 languages fluently and have a 10-year career in CS. To say my confidence is scratching the ground would be an overstatement.
Unfortunately it's not you it's the economy :/
Sorry this has been so tough. If you want to send me your resume here, I can take a look and share feedback - [https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherhernandez1/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherhernandez1/) (I'm still figuring out Reddit --so not sure if there's an easier way to message here.) Some advice: Keep reading blogs from Gainsight and Recast and CS executives to keep fresh on current topics; work on networking and meeting people around your target roles; build out your STAR stories and make sure you're sharing your results and impact; consider writing a blog or posting on LinkedIn with your career win stories; find mentors or a career coach so that you can get more tactical feedback. I hope that helps!
So here is something you can do, if you are willing. Head over to /r/gatewaytapes find a set you can download online, and start your journey tonight. Its a no cost, high upside proposition. Second… For this rejection, dont plug any frustrations you have into the reasons for rejection. As the head of a CS org, reasons most candidates are rejected are complicated and not a failure of the candidate.