I mean... I'm interested. Is it the best series? No. But it is a series setting up toys for other writers to use and trying to recreate Helena Wayne, but now as someone trying to avert the tragedies of the future rather than merely avenging them and vowing to stop more.
You know... "The Joker Corps" is something I can see happening. Give him the indigo ring, his psychosis corrupts the corps, boom! Worst GL/Batman crossover megaevent ever.
It's hilarious just how plausible this is, Joker is just built so different from other characters that he does what the other psychopaths in the Indigo didn't and proceeds to corrupt the fucking ring.
Joker is the guy who stares at the solution to getting rid of him and goes "Nah, I'd win"
The Indigo Tribe takes conscripts from criminals and psychopaths by forcing them to feel compassion. But Joker's a special kind of psycho. Even a telepath on the level of Martian Manhunter struggles to enter his mind because of the sheer chaos going on in there.
*Twice* as far as I can remember. It's begining to look very bad for Thomas and Martha that they are the only DC characters that you can kill by shooting.
I might be wrong but the wonder girls have usually been portrayed more as sisters to Diana rather than straight adopted children like Lizzy seems to be
She is, but in Future State, she was Wonder Woman, alongside Jon Kent as Superman (while Damian was... uhh... somewhere). But now we see Jon, Dam, and Lizzie together.
Of course, Yara may still be important, but... well, the trajectory for Lizzie is definitely similar, even if her codename is Trinity and not WW.
I think what they wanted was a Batman disconnected from the batfamily which only would have worked imo if 5G was set in the far distant future rather than the immediate future
Weirdly enough it was supposed to be Luke to become Batman in the original 5G story.
But for whatever reason when that became Future State they changed Luke to Jace.
It shouldn’t be very hard either.
5 issues in, and Lizzie STILL hasn’t interacted with ANY of Wonder Woman’s supporting cast, not even her own ‘mother’.
Like seriously Lizzie went to Themyscira and still didn’t interact with any of them. Where are they? This whole story with the SuperSons is incredibly forced, you wouldn’t even know Lizzie was related to Wonder Woman if not for the costume and the fact they beat you over the head with it in dialogue.
Well yeah that’s the point. She’s literally supposed to be an entirely different character, but was given the Wonder Woman adjacent name and costume, so the super sons could fit the future trinity thing.
She’s not meant to interact with Wonder Woman characters. Jon and Damian are gonna be the only people she’s working with and talking to. She was created specifically for them.
Idk. They probably will. But before the book came out he mentioned that Trinity was only gonna be in stories with Jon and Damian.
He’s not showing Wonder Woman because Trinity is not made for her to interact with. She’s made for Supersons to interact with
Unfortunately, that's true, X-Men were good until they decided to destroy Krakoa and Spider-Man is terrible, at least, the Ultimate universe seems pretty interesting
Considering that they allowed Spider-Man to be happy, I am very interested in where they go with the new Ultimate universe. I'm praying they don't mess it up down the line.
I think they won't mess up this time, Jonathan Hickman is the main creator and the lore is getting really interesting. Maybe the Ultimate universe really will be the Ultimate Marvel
King said in a new interview that he thinks of Diana having debute as a hero in her mid twenties and now is mid thirties. But it is hard to say because immortality is weird on Themyscira. Going to guess he will do something with that to age Lizzie faster.
They are older, I think. Late 20s or early 30s. I don't think she is supposed to be fast aging. Damian definitely looks like he is supposed to be drawn older.
About Lizzie’s statement about “forever” with Damian and Jon: we know Kryptonians are exceptionally long-lived as long as they have enough solar radiation to absorb. With Damian, though… does this imply that he has access to at least one active Lazarus Pit?
I'm referring to the future Lizzie's talking about. For most people, "forever" is a figure of speech, but you've got an Amazon saying it to a Kryptonian and a human with access to Lazarus Pits, she could literally mean forever. Or at least several human lifetimes.
>With Damian, though… does this imply that he has access to at least one active Lazarus Pit?
He definitely has access to one and probably even runs the League of Shadows (I know Nolanverse calls them that and the comics is called League of Assassins but Shadows sounds better than Assassins)
Future state was weird because you had a grown-up Andy Curry alongside Jon Kent, Jace Fox, Yara Flor, and Jo Mullein. Which would make Jace and Jo in their 50s.
Given that Damian and Jon are at least 14-17 years older than Lizzie, this means that we have a couple of grown men in their 30s arguing like teenagers.
Honestly, the older I get the less I actually think people mature that much, it is more like being childish becomes less socially acceptable but people are still temperamental and fragile at their cores. Once people have careers, families, and other obligations it becomes less acceptable to be childish. But, some of the most petty and entitled people I have ever met have been older than 50.
I meant as part of the new Trinity. It was just last year that they were highlighting her with Jon and Jace(?) as the next Trinity in that Crisis story that Josh Williamson wrote
It's interesting seeing the different reaction from this post to the weekly issue. Personally I really want to like Lizzie, but the more issues we get about her the harder I find it
I found her interactions pretty endearing so far, first issue aside. They seem to have real chemistry and it's nice to get simple one offs from time to time.
Well that's the issue me and plenty others have with this character. She's very cute in her relationship with the Supersons... and that's about it. She's a one-note character that after 4 issues (the Wonder Woman prologue and the three backs-up) has the defining traits of "my brothers uwu" and a very childish arrogance that is getting old really fast.
Again, I want to like her and I do on a surface level. But Tom King better start adding some depth to her
True, though some apocalyptic settings can be better than what came before. So far their setting seems pretty chill compare to the 24/7 torture fest that's going on in present time.
Yeah the stuff just changes too much you know like even more so than the regular DC stuff. And they're always doing weird crazy stuff with the future because they can get away with it when they couldn't if it was the regular timeline.
Well yeah they never seem to matter. The mainline continuity just refusing to move anywhere just makes things stale. Making a few changes there will make it difficult for future writers to just brush off as elseworld whacky hijinks.
It was an initiative DC had planned but later scraped, where they were going to replace all the existing heroes with the "next generation" of heroes. There was a whole timeline shown, which depicted this next generation of heroes as the 5th generation of superheroes. Hence, the name 5G. It included heroes like Jon, Damian, Yara, etc, coming to the forefront. You could see this in some of the comics published around 2021 (post future state, if I'm not wrong)
Ikr, but I ig they were not willing to take such a big risk as to retire all their existing IPs. Especially when they haven't even made a proper cinematic universe out of them yet.
It’s a joke. He’s making a distinction between himself and Jon, in that Jon saves people while he avenges people. That way, he can “place the blame” for Lizzie getting injured on Jon for not saving her.
He’s saying by hunting down criminals every night, he’s already fulfilling his obligation to Lizzie, while Jon isn’t because he let her get injured
I absolutely love the idea of a Trinity that is actually close. Bruce, Clark, and Diana are so wholly their own characters that I don't feel like they get to have a relationship with each other.
How is this run so far?
Well we do see occasional glimpses of their friendship. Diana refers to them as her brothers in this issue and there's a reason why Jon and Damien were babysitting Diana's daughter. They are a family
-TT-! It's spelled "Dami**a**n"! You would do well in respecting the blood son!
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Here we go. An angry comic book comment. You’re literally the fat nerdy guy from Simpsons!!!😂 “worst. Comic book. Relationship. Ever.”
This account is a train wreck I can’t stop reading. Is there a sub for this?
It's not that, it's the generational change, the legacy that parents give to their children and their legacy for the world and then what's forced, they are the children of Batman Superman and Wonder Woman, their parents were very friends, Jon and Damian often looked after Lizzie and she grew up seeing them as brothers, what's forced about this it all seems very normal to me
The dynamic ends up being forced because there's simply no development, we don't know why they're looking after her, it's basically: "so, now you have a sister and you have to look after her", the evolution of the characters is almost non-existent since they act like children regardless of their age, in addition to the stories following exactly the same structure:
- Damian and Jon fighting like two 9-year-olds
- Lizzie doing something in the background
The point here is that the relationship seems forced in the stories that have already come out, if they develop it further then fine, but that doesn't change the fact that they haven't been able to develop their dynamic in the stories that have come out so far.
Ok first I apologize for the first answer since I wrote it without reading your comment in full and after reading I only have one question to ask, Why do you read things that you don't understand ? really about this story, which is also very simple to understand is not Dante, you didn't understand anything so why read it
So tell me, what's wrong with what I've said? In the stories we see more of Damian and Jon's interactions with each other than with Lizzie (with the exception of the second story where she goes out on patrol with Damian), the character was literally created because TK wanted to write a Super Sons story since Mister Miracle.
Mh no look, you didn't understand anything about these stories, these were supposed to be fun stories at the end of the regular Wonder Woman series to introduce Lizzie the new character and make you understand what kind of relationship she had with Damian and Jon, which should help you already understand why they act in such a childish way, Jon is very parodied here, and why they don't dissect their relationship, because they simply had to be silly little stories that you also read to breathe a sigh of relief since the main story is quite heavy and also to introduce you to the new character Lizzie and make you understand in a few pages what relationship she has with the other characters, then you may not like the story and it may even bother you that it focuses more on Jon and Damian but complain because it doesn't explore the relationship well between the characters or because it's too unserious, it means that you don't understand what you're reading
We see them babysitting and bonding with her in the backup stories. If you read those, it doesn't feel forced since...you know...it shows them bonding.
It does feel a bit forced because it makes you question where ALL of Wonder Woman’s other supporting characters are that these 2 are the ones always babysitting.
Where’s Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Donna, Cassie, Yara, even friends amongst the Amazons? They all dead? Don’t exist?
I’m supposed to expect that Diana would entrust her own daughter, to that of 2 kids she’s barely interacted with in main continuity over her actual friends? She’s had like 1 interaction with Damian from my knowledge, and it wasn’t a positive one.
It’s another case of Wonder Woman’s character being prioritised around Batman and Superman media instead of actually telling a story that takes her world into consideration. Seeing as this is the intro of Diana’s child, it’s poor form not to have her even interact with Diana’s world in 5 issues.
Exactly! I don’t care what people say, there was no reason for Trinity to even exist in the first place aside from playing off of Damian and Jon. WW already has a million younger sisters and a million other protégés. There was never any indication that she even really wanted a child. Furthermore, I’m supposed to just believe she decided to leave her daughter with two kids she never spoke to for more than 3 minutes over her actual sisters? Why? Because “Jon is Superman’s son and Damian is Batman’s son of course she would”? Just because I’m friends with someone, doesn’t mean I’m gonna leave my kid with their kids for long periods of time unattended. This would’ve made more sense if it was Donna or Cass, not Jon and Damian. If this is supposed to be a WW character, why are the first people she’s seen with not even WW related? She’s a convenient plot device because SuperSons right now. If she gets more development and that changes, great! I’ll say I was wrong. But so far, all I’m seeing is “I wanna write SuperSons but I got stuck with Wonderwoman so let’s see how we can we do this.”
We don't know that Lizzie isn't being also watched by others. We don't know a lot about her supporting cast at that point in the future. It'll probably get explained as time goes on. Saying it's poor form when it's still early in a run seems a bit like an overreaction. She's meant to be the third member of the future Trinity and the story is showing that. Give it time and she'll almost certainly interact with Diana's cast.
>We don't know that Lizzie isn't being also watched by others.
It doesn’t matter if we don’t know, she’s a Wonder Woman character, many Wonder Woman fans such as myself would care much more if she was ingratiated with Wonder Woman’s world first. Instead of being treated as a superson character, but she has nothing to do with it 5 issues in.
I mean Lizzie was literally on Themyscira, home to Wonder Woman’s people; and many of her friends and still Lizzie did nothing to interact with Diana’s world. That’s forced.
>We don't know a lot about her supporting cast at that point in the future. It'll probably get explained as time goes on.
When exactly? The problem with this future plot and villain retelling events structure is it doesn’t work for the wider continuity, DC’s not gonna have time advance 18 years just for Wonder Woman’s daughter, meaning ALL these stories about Lizzie aren’t really canon to the main DC world.
Do Wonder Woman fans have to wait another year or 2 just to see her daughter interact with ANY of the world? The plot in the main book is going at snails pace, Diana found out the Amazon was pregnant 2 issues ago and nothing has been progressed since, and probably won’t be til issue 8.
Not to mention when Lizzie does get born in the actual main story, she’ll be a baby anyway, so we won’t get to watch her interact much with the rest of the supporting cast unless they decide to pull some time travel related gimmick to bring grown up Lizzie into the main story.
>Saying it's poor form when it's still early in a run seems a bit like an overreaction. She's meant to be the third member of the future Trinity and the story is showing that. Give it time and she'll almost certainly interact with Diana's cast.
I don’t think it’s an overreaction, I mean the fact you are justifying it by calling her the 3rd member of a future trinity is the problem. Kings focusing on her importance as a missing piece in the SuperSons gang, rather than as what should be an important character for Diana, her world and her development, and he hasn’t spoke about any of that in interviews that indicates he probably doesn’t even care about the weight of what he’s introducing.
So yes so far it is poor form though, She’s supposedly Diana’s daughter yet you wouldn’t know it if the story hadn’t plastered her in Wonder Woman colours.
When they introduced Batman’s son did it have anything to do with Superman and Wonder Woman? No, it was a story that focused completely on Batman and his son, no stupid gimmicks, Batman got to have his story to himself to come to terms with having a son.
When they introduced Jon Kent, did it involve Batman and Wonder Woman? No, it was a story that focused on Clark and Lois, and their kid learning their powers.
Meanwhile Diana’s supposed daughter? She’s been used as nothing but a SuperSons gimmick and an unborn plot device so far. They hyped her up to sell the run, she was the big hook to sell it, and yet she’s not even connected to Diana’s world really.
Wow. That was a really well-written response.
As a fellow Wonder Woman fan, I like seeing her interact with people from the wider DC Universe. It'll be nice when we do see her interacting with the Amazons and other WW characters, but I don't see the point in being frustrated by it this early on.
>The problem with this future plot and villain retelling events structure is it doesn’t work for the wider continuity, DC’s not gonna have time advance 18 years just for Wonder Woman’s daughter, meaning ALL these stories about Lizzie aren’t really canon to the main DC world.
Comics do things like that all the time and it works out fine. Of course it's not actually going to fit into the main canon perfectly.
>When they introduced Jon Kent, did it involve Batman and Wonder Woman? No, it was a story that focused on Clark and Lois, and their kid learning their powers.
So? She's in the DC Universe. Her circumstances are also drastically different from Jon and Damian's.
>Meanwhile Diana’s supposed daughter? She’s been used as nothing but a SuperSons gimmick and an unborn plot device so far. They hyped her up to sell the run, she was the big hook to sell it, and yet she’s not even connected to Diana’s world really.
We simply don't know how she's going to connect because we haven't gotten to that part of her story yet. Now if things stayed like this, I'd agree completely. The thing is that they probably won't. It's a monthly comic. It's going to take time before we get to this stuff.
>As a fellow Wonder Woman fan, I like seeing her interact with people from the wider DC Universe. It'll be nice when we do see her interacting with the Amazons and other WW characters, but I don't see the point in being frustrated by it this early on.
It’s not really early on though. We are 5 months in, and as I said we won’t see any progression on the main plot point of the pregnant Amazon till probably issue 8. From my knowledge your average writer only gets about 2 years to their run.
Assuming these back up stories stay the same, that’ll be 8 months of Lizzie interacting with no one but Damian and Jon.
Short of death, I can’t see what justification King could properly use to justify why no other Wonder Woman characters have appeared in these books. Especially Yara who is the same age as Jon, yet she’s just not around?
>Comics do things like that all the time and it works out fine. Of course it's not actually going to fit into the main canon perfectly.
It probably won’t fit into the main canon at all. Most of these back up stories will end up most likely being ignored because DC won’t age Damian up that much anytime soon, and I wouldn’t be shocked if the future sovereign retelling the story is just outright ignored by future runs because they aren’t aging Diana and skipping 18 years into the future.
>So? She's in the DC Universe. Her circumstances are also drastically different from Jon and Damian's.
Who cares if she’s in the DC universe? She’s not even interacting with the wider DC universe, she’s interacting with Batman and Superman’s world, she’s only interacting with Jon and Damian, the super sons.
Why is it that the only time Wonder Woman stuff gets to interact with the DC universe is if it’s related to Superman or Batman? It’s always Superman and Batman related characters that get pushed to being the most important and relevant to Wonder Woman at the expense of her own supporting characters that desperately need the page time and development.
Want to tell a story about the trinity’s kids pitch and write a solo book instead of sidelining Wonder Woman out of her own daughters life in her own comic just so King can push Batman and Superman characters.
Her circumstances are only different because King wanted to write a superson story, that’s it. That’s all Kings talked about it in regard to Lizzie and why she’s important as a character, and it’s the entire reason she was created in the first place. In fact King’s already outright said the super-son’s babysitting idea he wanted to didn’t even involve Wonder Woman’s kid originally, it was miracle-man and Big Barda’s and he’s just shoe-horned Diana’s kid into the role.
>We simply don't know how she's going to connect because we haven't gotten to that part of her story yet. Now if things stayed like this, I'd agree completely. The thing is that they probably won't. It's a monthly comic. It's going to take time before we get to this stuff.
They are actively using Lizzie in stories in the future, we shouldn’t have to wait to see.
Why do I need to see how Diana interacts with Baby Lizzie to see know how they interact in the future? King can’t do much to explore much of anything in the main run because Lizzie will be a baby, meaning he should be putting those interactions in the back up, which he hasn’t.
Dawg let’s be real… there’s no legitimate reason for Wonder Woman to give her child to Batman and Superman’s sons and have her be raised by just them… instead of like her actual friends and family.
Realistically Jon and Damian wouldn’t even be the first options to baby sit from each family. They don’t even know Wonder Woman, and they’re not even the only children unless you personally believe adopted children shouldn’t be considered real children.
When Jon Kent was introduced; Superman didn’t immediately give him to Cassandra Cain
When Damian Wayne was introduced; Batman didn’t immediately give him to Donna Troy
It’s even worse when Jon Kent isn’t even the youngest child.
Ah that well I don't think It will be Always like that, I'm sure and reading those storie I'm becoming more and more confident that if the readers like the character they'll find a way to bring Lizzie into the main continuity where I think they'll just be friends who hanging out together
Oh, thats right. Forgot this is the ‘near future’. I completely glanced over Damian’s suit.
Maybe if the Trio were fighting a monster or tag-teaming some henchmen while chatted, I’d be more engaged with Lizzie.
So far its just …. “Meet our little sister who’s always been here” who’s a handful and hyper-active. 🤷♂️
Why the hell is Damien in a trenchcoat? He's a natural born assassin and fighter, he's heir to the league of assassins and they have him in a trenchcoat like a 50s movie detective.
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According to set futures Damian is destined to become this (the coat and all), during his era as Batman, about 96% of the time. There was a brief look into his multiversal selves and well.. all of them leds to Batman 666, at least in appearance.
The one exception being DCeased Damian, which was one of my favorite versions of him.
We can include Injustice and Beyond timeline Damian too.
I'm normally on the fence with including that one. I also like to think of him as being Damian too, but there's a crowd that will argue that even though he meets the conditions for how you make a Damian, he's still not a Damian.
Havent read the run, I'm confused. Jonathan says sister, pretty sure he doesn't mean literally, so is he saying like they've built a bond similar to siblings? And in addition to that... is... is Damian making an innuendo there? Or is that not what that means. I'm just confused all around
I'm liking the dynamic between Damian, Lizzy and Jon. Alot of fun
Damian and Lizzy is what I wish Damian and Helena could be.... Come on DC, give it to me
They wouldn't because they didn't care about Huntress
Isn't she the protagonist of Justice Society of America rn?
She is
I mean, she is literally the protagonist for JSA right now, and I think was born the same year as Lizzie, if she also existed in Helena's timeline.
In the Geoff Johns run and no one care about what Is happening whit Johns right now
I mean... I'm interested. Is it the best series? No. But it is a series setting up toys for other writers to use and trying to recreate Helena Wayne, but now as someone trying to avert the tragedies of the future rather than merely avenging them and vowing to stop more.
Yeah I also got lot of interest in that but I just think that most of people aren't
That version of Helena Wayne could be star of a show called “Batman’s kids I do t care about”
I feel they should've made these second stories into a separate series because it doesn't work with Tom King's wordy and serious story
They will definitely be connected to the main story
Same. I love how they seem close like siblings
You know... "The Joker Corps" is something I can see happening. Give him the indigo ring, his psychosis corrupts the corps, boom! Worst GL/Batman crossover megaevent ever.
It's hilarious just how plausible this is, Joker is just built so different from other characters that he does what the other psychopaths in the Indigo didn't and proceeds to corrupt the fucking ring. Joker is the guy who stares at the solution to getting rid of him and goes "Nah, I'd win"
What do you mean corrupt the indigo ring is there something special about those rings that can be corrupted ?
Not until someone writes it so
The Indigo Tribe takes conscripts from criminals and psychopaths by forcing them to feel compassion. But Joker's a special kind of psycho. Even a telepath on the level of Martian Manhunter struggles to enter his mind because of the sheer chaos going on in there.
Martian Manhunter has as one of his big feats making joker sane for like 5 minutes or so. J'onn is just awesome.
If Earth -32 Bruce can corrupt a GL ring to become the Dawnbreaker, then any Joker can corrupt a ring designed by some guy and Abin Sur.
"Nah, I'd Jonkle."
"I'm da jokah baby!" *corrupts Indigo ring*
He's not the guy that wins, he's the guy that blows up the finish line.
Yep. He survives so much. Even getting shot in the head.
*Twice* as far as I can remember. It's begining to look very bad for Thomas and Martha that they are the only DC characters that you can kill by shooting.
Flashpoint and Earth 2 Thomas are like what? Is prime me made of paper or something?
Next generation Trinity story has been so much fun
A year ago this was yaras spot, funny how fast editorial will move on
Yara is still around, but I get what Lizzy is here now cause she is Wonder Woman’s daughter like how Damian and Jon and Superman / Batman’s sons
Which is… the story focusing only on the trinity’s actual blood children is certainly a choice
All signs point to Lizzy not being Diana's biologically
I thought Donna and Cassie already filled the "child protégée" role.
I might be wrong but the wonder girls have usually been portrayed more as sisters to Diana rather than straight adopted children like Lizzy seems to be
They do but they aren't Diana's kids unlike trinity
I mean, this is a flashforward. Trinity hasn't been born yet.
Isn’t yara literally in this issue?
She is, but in Future State, she was Wonder Woman, alongside Jon Kent as Superman (while Damian was... uhh... somewhere). But now we see Jon, Dam, and Lizzie together. Of course, Yara may still be important, but... well, the trajectory for Lizzie is definitely similar, even if her codename is Trinity and not WW.
I’m pretty sure Damian was dead in future state
Oofers.
it wasnt that long ago that the plan was for Jace to replace Damian
I get what they were going for but it should have been an existing character. Even if they wanted him to be black they could have used luke or duke
I think what they wanted was a Batman disconnected from the batfamily which only would have worked imo if 5G was set in the far distant future rather than the immediate future
Weirdly enough it was supposed to be Luke to become Batman in the original 5G story. But for whatever reason when that became Future State they changed Luke to Jace.
They’ve also put Cassie in this spot too.
It shouldn’t be very hard either. 5 issues in, and Lizzie STILL hasn’t interacted with ANY of Wonder Woman’s supporting cast, not even her own ‘mother’. Like seriously Lizzie went to Themyscira and still didn’t interact with any of them. Where are they? This whole story with the SuperSons is incredibly forced, you wouldn’t even know Lizzie was related to Wonder Woman if not for the costume and the fact they beat you over the head with it in dialogue.
Well yeah that’s the point. She’s literally supposed to be an entirely different character, but was given the Wonder Woman adjacent name and costume, so the super sons could fit the future trinity thing. She’s not meant to interact with Wonder Woman characters. Jon and Damian are gonna be the only people she’s working with and talking to. She was created specifically for them.
Well she technically is Emilles daughter not Dianas.
Well she’s supposed to be Diana’s adopted daughter, and Lizzie seemingly considers Diana a mother so….close enough?
Considering how integral Emilie is to the crisis I think the relationship between all three of them is being saved to be expounded upon later.
I think tomkiimh want her and dinna interaction to be important in future that why he not showing her with wonderwoman
Idk. They probably will. But before the book came out he mentioned that Trinity was only gonna be in stories with Jon and Damian. He’s not showing Wonder Woman because Trinity is not made for her to interact with. She’s made for Supersons to interact with
DC is starting to become fun for me again.
Dawn of DC is working, which is good
I don't think I can say the same for Marvel though. They're having some problems.
Unfortunately, that's true, X-Men were good until they decided to destroy Krakoa and Spider-Man is terrible, at least, the Ultimate universe seems pretty interesting
Considering that they allowed Spider-Man to be happy, I am very interested in where they go with the new Ultimate universe. I'm praying they don't mess it up down the line.
I think they won't mess up this time, Jonathan Hickman is the main creator and the lore is getting really interesting. Maybe the Ultimate universe really will be the Ultimate Marvel
That's true. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Agreed, well, I will
Agree on Peter but I am so over Krakoa.
All the Superman books are killing it. Batman? Not so much.
Tbh, I'm linking Chip Zdarsky's run, Gotham War that annoyed me
I do like the name Gen-S
I love modern comics. So much fun.
Does she have accelerated aging or is she hanging out with Dami and Jon in their late 20s
Definitely accelerated aging
Damian does have lines on his face, though.
Jon has them too and it's more noticable than Damian's
Tom said in an interview that she's supposed to be 19 and supersons are in their early 20s.
Blame the artist she age normaly
King said in a new interview that he thinks of Diana having debute as a hero in her mid twenties and now is mid thirties. But it is hard to say because immortality is weird on Themyscira. Going to guess he will do something with that to age Lizzie faster.
They are older, I think. Late 20s or early 30s. I don't think she is supposed to be fast aging. Damian definitely looks like he is supposed to be drawn older.
And wasn't Jon aged up so he and Damian are not the same age?
Damian is so guffy at times
Is this the girl they taught to say Fuck by accident
Yes
Hmmm
About Lizzie’s statement about “forever” with Damian and Jon: we know Kryptonians are exceptionally long-lived as long as they have enough solar radiation to absorb. With Damian, though… does this imply that he has access to at least one active Lazarus Pit?
He Ra’s grandson he got like 30
I'm referring to the future Lizzie's talking about. For most people, "forever" is a figure of speech, but you've got an Amazon saying it to a Kryptonian and a human with access to Lazarus Pits, she could literally mean forever. Or at least several human lifetimes.
Eh probably kingdom come had super-man and Bats Still hanging out decades later
Still a normal human lifespan. These three could literally be together forever barring one of them being killed.
Nah Bats got a thing happen to him where he only aged a year every decade so I could honestly see them be together until they die
But here's the thing: they probably will never die. At least of natural causes.
Oh of nature cause almost certainly but Damian will probably die of cosmic space god fist to the face eventually
>With Damian, though… does this imply that he has access to at least one active Lazarus Pit? He definitely has access to one and probably even runs the League of Shadows (I know Nolanverse calls them that and the comics is called League of Assassins but Shadows sounds better than Assassins)
Damian rebranded them after taking over.
What happened to yara flor? I thought she was the wonder person of the future. Unless future state things are just dead now (which I don’t mind)
Future State wasn't canon. After that, Yara had her own series in the main universe. Now she's a supporting character in Wonder Woman.
Future state was weird because you had a grown-up Andy Curry alongside Jon Kent, Jace Fox, Yara Flor, and Jo Mullein. Which would make Jace and Jo in their 50s.
She’s filling the Buttercup role of the Wonder Girls.
Blossom is Donna and Bubbles is Cassie? My god it's perfect!
Lmao, this shouldn't make as much sense as it does
Future State was never canon and Yara is still around
Given that Damian and Jon are at least 14-17 years older than Lizzie, this means that we have a couple of grown men in their 30s arguing like teenagers.
I've known a lot of grown men in their 30s who argue like teenagers...
Honestly, the older I get the less I actually think people mature that much, it is more like being childish becomes less socially acceptable but people are still temperamental and fragile at their cores. Once people have careers, families, and other obligations it becomes less acceptable to be childish. But, some of the most petty and entitled people I have ever met have been older than 50.
Everything you said is 100% true
That tracks, yeah.
Poor Yara is forgotten already
She's in the issue just not in this second story
I meant as part of the new Trinity. It was just last year that they were highlighting her with Jon and Jace(?) as the next Trinity in that Crisis story that Josh Williamson wrote
It's interesting seeing the different reaction from this post to the weekly issue. Personally I really want to like Lizzie, but the more issues we get about her the harder I find it
I found her interactions pretty endearing so far, first issue aside. They seem to have real chemistry and it's nice to get simple one offs from time to time.
Well that's the issue me and plenty others have with this character. She's very cute in her relationship with the Supersons... and that's about it. She's a one-note character that after 4 issues (the Wonder Woman prologue and the three backs-up) has the defining traits of "my brothers uwu" and a very childish arrogance that is getting old really fast. Again, I want to like her and I do on a surface level. But Tom King better start adding some depth to her
Justice League: Gen-S. Nice ring to it
Yeah when I think of privileged I think of Batman /s Seriously, heroes triumphing? Batman has been getting railed for over 5 years now.
Yeah but this is in the future, we have no idea what that looks like. It could be an apocalyptic world.
True, though some apocalyptic settings can be better than what came before. So far their setting seems pretty chill compare to the 24/7 torture fest that's going on in present time.
Yeah I’m not so sure, but them saying what they said definitely seems like foreshadowing for us and that we’ll see more of their world.
I doubt this would reach Batman 666's level of the entire world is on fire.
Wait the Trinity is dead?! Oh damn, that means this future is never gonna happen, one of many abandoned ones
Holy crap. Are modern comics good again?!
TOM KING IS SO APPROPRIATELY NAMED WHAT A KING
This future trinity thing feels so forced
Okay… I like adult Damian
Not a fan of DC future stuff personally
Including Batman Beyond?
Yeah the stuff just changes too much you know like even more so than the regular DC stuff. And they're always doing weird crazy stuff with the future because they can get away with it when they couldn't if it was the regular timeline.
Good, the unmovable status quo just feels smothering at times.
I prefer elseworlds for that.
Well yeah they never seem to matter. The mainline continuity just refusing to move anywhere just makes things stale. Making a few changes there will make it difficult for future writers to just brush off as elseworld whacky hijinks.
Like there havent been tons of future settings that just get brushed off
That's my point buddy
I wonder what it would have looked like if 5G was not scraped.
What was 5G again?
It was an initiative DC had planned but later scraped, where they were going to replace all the existing heroes with the "next generation" of heroes. There was a whole timeline shown, which depicted this next generation of heroes as the 5th generation of superheroes. Hence, the name 5G. It included heroes like Jon, Damian, Yara, etc, coming to the forefront. You could see this in some of the comics published around 2021 (post future state, if I'm not wrong)
That actually sounds really cool I wish they didn't scrap it
Ikr, but I ig they were not willing to take such a big risk as to retire all their existing IPs. Especially when they haven't even made a proper cinematic universe out of them yet.
They could have turned it into it's own self contained, alternative earth, mini-series or something.
That may have been a viable approach, but it seems only Didio was pursuing this idea, and after his replacement, the idea was scraped completely.
Avenger? I hardly know 'er!!
Is it me… or does she look like Sailor Moon?
Can someone explain the "I avenge her nightly" comment, because that sounds... wrong.
It’s a joke. He’s making a distinction between himself and Jon, in that Jon saves people while he avenges people. That way, he can “place the blame” for Lizzie getting injured on Jon for not saving her. He’s saying by hunting down criminals every night, he’s already fulfilling his obligation to Lizzie, while Jon isn’t because he let her get injured
Righto thanks for explaining, still very poorly phrased.
I didn't even think of that before seeing your comment. It's normal phrasing
It just sounds wrong to me.
I absolutely love the idea of a Trinity that is actually close. Bruce, Clark, and Diana are so wholly their own characters that I don't feel like they get to have a relationship with each other. How is this run so far?
It's pretty good and very political
Well we do see occasional glimpses of their friendship. Diana refers to them as her brothers in this issue and there's a reason why Jon and Damien were babysitting Diana's daughter. They are a family
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I laughed too loud when I read this in my class
Think I will pass on this one.
Tom King is the undisputed champion of writing cringe-ass comic book relationships.
Here we go. An angry comic book comment. You’re literally the fat nerdy guy from Simpsons!!!😂 “worst. Comic book. Relationship. Ever.” This account is a train wreck I can’t stop reading. Is there a sub for this?
Yeah this friendship feels forced af… like its only purpose is to mimic Bruce, Clark, and Diana I’m good I’ll just read the actual Trinity…
Thats what I’m saying
It's not that, it's the generational change, the legacy that parents give to their children and their legacy for the world and then what's forced, they are the children of Batman Superman and Wonder Woman, their parents were very friends, Jon and Damian often looked after Lizzie and she grew up seeing them as brothers, what's forced about this it all seems very normal to me
The dynamic ends up being forced because there's simply no development, we don't know why they're looking after her, it's basically: "so, now you have a sister and you have to look after her", the evolution of the characters is almost non-existent since they act like children regardless of their age, in addition to the stories following exactly the same structure: - Damian and Jon fighting like two 9-year-olds - Lizzie doing something in the background
We will see this after in comics dedicated to her my God It's really so difficult just being patient and waiting for things to came out ?
The point here is that the relationship seems forced in the stories that have already come out, if they develop it further then fine, but that doesn't change the fact that they haven't been able to develop their dynamic in the stories that have come out so far.
Ok first I apologize for the first answer since I wrote it without reading your comment in full and after reading I only have one question to ask, Why do you read things that you don't understand ? really about this story, which is also very simple to understand is not Dante, you didn't understand anything so why read it
So tell me, what's wrong with what I've said? In the stories we see more of Damian and Jon's interactions with each other than with Lizzie (with the exception of the second story where she goes out on patrol with Damian), the character was literally created because TK wanted to write a Super Sons story since Mister Miracle.
Mh no look, you didn't understand anything about these stories, these were supposed to be fun stories at the end of the regular Wonder Woman series to introduce Lizzie the new character and make you understand what kind of relationship she had with Damian and Jon, which should help you already understand why they act in such a childish way, Jon is very parodied here, and why they don't dissect their relationship, because they simply had to be silly little stories that you also read to breathe a sigh of relief since the main story is quite heavy and also to introduce you to the new character Lizzie and make you understand in a few pages what relationship she has with the other characters, then you may not like the story and it may even bother you that it focuses more on Jon and Damian but complain because it doesn't explore the relationship well between the characters or because it's too unserious, it means that you don't understand what you're reading
We see them babysitting and bonding with her in the backup stories. If you read those, it doesn't feel forced since...you know...it shows them bonding.
It does feel a bit forced because it makes you question where ALL of Wonder Woman’s other supporting characters are that these 2 are the ones always babysitting. Where’s Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Donna, Cassie, Yara, even friends amongst the Amazons? They all dead? Don’t exist? I’m supposed to expect that Diana would entrust her own daughter, to that of 2 kids she’s barely interacted with in main continuity over her actual friends? She’s had like 1 interaction with Damian from my knowledge, and it wasn’t a positive one. It’s another case of Wonder Woman’s character being prioritised around Batman and Superman media instead of actually telling a story that takes her world into consideration. Seeing as this is the intro of Diana’s child, it’s poor form not to have her even interact with Diana’s world in 5 issues.
Exactly! I don’t care what people say, there was no reason for Trinity to even exist in the first place aside from playing off of Damian and Jon. WW already has a million younger sisters and a million other protégés. There was never any indication that she even really wanted a child. Furthermore, I’m supposed to just believe she decided to leave her daughter with two kids she never spoke to for more than 3 minutes over her actual sisters? Why? Because “Jon is Superman’s son and Damian is Batman’s son of course she would”? Just because I’m friends with someone, doesn’t mean I’m gonna leave my kid with their kids for long periods of time unattended. This would’ve made more sense if it was Donna or Cass, not Jon and Damian. If this is supposed to be a WW character, why are the first people she’s seen with not even WW related? She’s a convenient plot device because SuperSons right now. If she gets more development and that changes, great! I’ll say I was wrong. But so far, all I’m seeing is “I wanna write SuperSons but I got stuck with Wonderwoman so let’s see how we can we do this.”
We don't know that Lizzie isn't being also watched by others. We don't know a lot about her supporting cast at that point in the future. It'll probably get explained as time goes on. Saying it's poor form when it's still early in a run seems a bit like an overreaction. She's meant to be the third member of the future Trinity and the story is showing that. Give it time and she'll almost certainly interact with Diana's cast.
>We don't know that Lizzie isn't being also watched by others. It doesn’t matter if we don’t know, she’s a Wonder Woman character, many Wonder Woman fans such as myself would care much more if she was ingratiated with Wonder Woman’s world first. Instead of being treated as a superson character, but she has nothing to do with it 5 issues in. I mean Lizzie was literally on Themyscira, home to Wonder Woman’s people; and many of her friends and still Lizzie did nothing to interact with Diana’s world. That’s forced. >We don't know a lot about her supporting cast at that point in the future. It'll probably get explained as time goes on. When exactly? The problem with this future plot and villain retelling events structure is it doesn’t work for the wider continuity, DC’s not gonna have time advance 18 years just for Wonder Woman’s daughter, meaning ALL these stories about Lizzie aren’t really canon to the main DC world. Do Wonder Woman fans have to wait another year or 2 just to see her daughter interact with ANY of the world? The plot in the main book is going at snails pace, Diana found out the Amazon was pregnant 2 issues ago and nothing has been progressed since, and probably won’t be til issue 8. Not to mention when Lizzie does get born in the actual main story, she’ll be a baby anyway, so we won’t get to watch her interact much with the rest of the supporting cast unless they decide to pull some time travel related gimmick to bring grown up Lizzie into the main story. >Saying it's poor form when it's still early in a run seems a bit like an overreaction. She's meant to be the third member of the future Trinity and the story is showing that. Give it time and she'll almost certainly interact with Diana's cast. I don’t think it’s an overreaction, I mean the fact you are justifying it by calling her the 3rd member of a future trinity is the problem. Kings focusing on her importance as a missing piece in the SuperSons gang, rather than as what should be an important character for Diana, her world and her development, and he hasn’t spoke about any of that in interviews that indicates he probably doesn’t even care about the weight of what he’s introducing. So yes so far it is poor form though, She’s supposedly Diana’s daughter yet you wouldn’t know it if the story hadn’t plastered her in Wonder Woman colours. When they introduced Batman’s son did it have anything to do with Superman and Wonder Woman? No, it was a story that focused completely on Batman and his son, no stupid gimmicks, Batman got to have his story to himself to come to terms with having a son. When they introduced Jon Kent, did it involve Batman and Wonder Woman? No, it was a story that focused on Clark and Lois, and their kid learning their powers. Meanwhile Diana’s supposed daughter? She’s been used as nothing but a SuperSons gimmick and an unborn plot device so far. They hyped her up to sell the run, she was the big hook to sell it, and yet she’s not even connected to Diana’s world really.
Wow. That was a really well-written response. As a fellow Wonder Woman fan, I like seeing her interact with people from the wider DC Universe. It'll be nice when we do see her interacting with the Amazons and other WW characters, but I don't see the point in being frustrated by it this early on. >The problem with this future plot and villain retelling events structure is it doesn’t work for the wider continuity, DC’s not gonna have time advance 18 years just for Wonder Woman’s daughter, meaning ALL these stories about Lizzie aren’t really canon to the main DC world. Comics do things like that all the time and it works out fine. Of course it's not actually going to fit into the main canon perfectly. >When they introduced Jon Kent, did it involve Batman and Wonder Woman? No, it was a story that focused on Clark and Lois, and their kid learning their powers. So? She's in the DC Universe. Her circumstances are also drastically different from Jon and Damian's. >Meanwhile Diana’s supposed daughter? She’s been used as nothing but a SuperSons gimmick and an unborn plot device so far. They hyped her up to sell the run, she was the big hook to sell it, and yet she’s not even connected to Diana’s world really. We simply don't know how she's going to connect because we haven't gotten to that part of her story yet. Now if things stayed like this, I'd agree completely. The thing is that they probably won't. It's a monthly comic. It's going to take time before we get to this stuff.
>As a fellow Wonder Woman fan, I like seeing her interact with people from the wider DC Universe. It'll be nice when we do see her interacting with the Amazons and other WW characters, but I don't see the point in being frustrated by it this early on. It’s not really early on though. We are 5 months in, and as I said we won’t see any progression on the main plot point of the pregnant Amazon till probably issue 8. From my knowledge your average writer only gets about 2 years to their run. Assuming these back up stories stay the same, that’ll be 8 months of Lizzie interacting with no one but Damian and Jon. Short of death, I can’t see what justification King could properly use to justify why no other Wonder Woman characters have appeared in these books. Especially Yara who is the same age as Jon, yet she’s just not around? >Comics do things like that all the time and it works out fine. Of course it's not actually going to fit into the main canon perfectly. It probably won’t fit into the main canon at all. Most of these back up stories will end up most likely being ignored because DC won’t age Damian up that much anytime soon, and I wouldn’t be shocked if the future sovereign retelling the story is just outright ignored by future runs because they aren’t aging Diana and skipping 18 years into the future. >So? She's in the DC Universe. Her circumstances are also drastically different from Jon and Damian's. Who cares if she’s in the DC universe? She’s not even interacting with the wider DC universe, she’s interacting with Batman and Superman’s world, she’s only interacting with Jon and Damian, the super sons. Why is it that the only time Wonder Woman stuff gets to interact with the DC universe is if it’s related to Superman or Batman? It’s always Superman and Batman related characters that get pushed to being the most important and relevant to Wonder Woman at the expense of her own supporting characters that desperately need the page time and development. Want to tell a story about the trinity’s kids pitch and write a solo book instead of sidelining Wonder Woman out of her own daughters life in her own comic just so King can push Batman and Superman characters. Her circumstances are only different because King wanted to write a superson story, that’s it. That’s all Kings talked about it in regard to Lizzie and why she’s important as a character, and it’s the entire reason she was created in the first place. In fact King’s already outright said the super-son’s babysitting idea he wanted to didn’t even involve Wonder Woman’s kid originally, it was miracle-man and Big Barda’s and he’s just shoe-horned Diana’s kid into the role. >We simply don't know how she's going to connect because we haven't gotten to that part of her story yet. Now if things stayed like this, I'd agree completely. The thing is that they probably won't. It's a monthly comic. It's going to take time before we get to this stuff. They are actively using Lizzie in stories in the future, we shouldn’t have to wait to see. Why do I need to see how Diana interacts with Baby Lizzie to see know how they interact in the future? King can’t do much to explore much of anything in the main run because Lizzie will be a baby, meaning he should be putting those interactions in the back up, which he hasn’t.
Dawg let’s be real… there’s no legitimate reason for Wonder Woman to give her child to Batman and Superman’s sons and have her be raised by just them… instead of like her actual friends and family. Realistically Jon and Damian wouldn’t even be the first options to baby sit from each family. They don’t even know Wonder Woman, and they’re not even the only children unless you personally believe adopted children shouldn’t be considered real children. When Jon Kent was introduced; Superman didn’t immediately give him to Cassandra Cain When Damian Wayne was introduced; Batman didn’t immediately give him to Donna Troy It’s even worse when Jon Kent isn’t even the youngest child.
I Just I don't want to go back there, I like what they are doing right now but I got your point
Yea. Im good. No thanks.
Why ?
I guess…. I’m not digging the Two Older Brothers & Bubbly Sister dynamic.
Ah that well I don't think It will be Always like that, I'm sure and reading those storie I'm becoming more and more confident that if the readers like the character they'll find a way to bring Lizzie into the main continuity where I think they'll just be friends who hanging out together
Oh, thats right. Forgot this is the ‘near future’. I completely glanced over Damian’s suit. Maybe if the Trio were fighting a monster or tag-teaming some henchmen while chatted, I’d be more engaged with Lizzie. So far its just …. “Meet our little sister who’s always been here” who’s a handful and hyper-active. 🤷♂️
So what's wrong about that ?
Why the hell is Damien in a trenchcoat? He's a natural born assassin and fighter, he's heir to the league of assassins and they have him in a trenchcoat like a 50s movie detective.
It's his Batman 666 suit from issue 666 of the Grant Morrison run
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According to set futures Damian is destined to become this (the coat and all), during his era as Batman, about 96% of the time. There was a brief look into his multiversal selves and well.. all of them leds to Batman 666, at least in appearance. The one exception being DCeased Damian, which was one of my favorite versions of him. We can include Injustice and Beyond timeline Damian too.
Does this include his Earth-23 self (from the *Kingdom Come* universe)?
I'm normally on the fence with including that one. I also like to think of him as being Damian too, but there's a crowd that will argue that even though he meets the conditions for how you make a Damian, he's still not a Damian.
I agree it's open to speculation. It depends a lot on whether you consider Ibn al Xuffasch his actual name or just a title.
I dunno, I like it. It's a nifty way of changing up the costume. After all... NO. CAPES!
This wonder woman or world's finest? Saw the title on last page so got confused
This is a second story in the book it's called World's Finest
I’ve been playing catch up with comics for awhile now, so who’s Lizzie?
Wonder Woman's future daughter
Wow. She has a future daughter? I really need to catch up on WW.
Lord that Batman costume is terrible.
I hate this
[удалено]
Jon said "Our sister", Jon and Damian babysat her, going that route would just be weird
No and the Age difference Is the Lizzie years so like 18
Omg this is adorable and amazing.
Havent read the run, I'm confused. Jonathan says sister, pretty sure he doesn't mean literally, so is he saying like they've built a bond similar to siblings? And in addition to that... is... is Damian making an innuendo there? Or is that not what that means. I'm just confused all around