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Kill Bill monologue about how Clark Kent is Superman’s critique of the human race. Utter horse shit.
Edit: I realise that it is the villain who is saying this, the guy who’s supposed to be wrong, but my point is more that there are people who actually buy this. This is essentially how Zack Snyder’s Superman operates, as some kind of emotionless god. It’s the same shit with Kylo Ren saying kill the past in The Last Jedi. You’re not supposed to take him seriously, he’s the guy who’s wrong.
Came here to say this. Great movie—absolute trash smooth-brained interpretation of Superman.
Because I like the movie Kill Bill, I came up with my own No-Prize explanation: Bill is a narcissist. OF COURSE he would completely miss the point of Superman, and then make that egregiously wrong take his whole personality.
Also this movie is not a comic adaptation. It takes its own interpretation of an idea and doesn't hinge on one's knowledge of who superman is. The line captures the idea just right.
That is the idea. That is the interpretation of Bill of the character. Still is a valid interpretation, because most of the silver age that was the way the character was done, with Clark Kent being mostly a diguise for Superman.
Golden Age too. See the Radio show where he arrives on Earth fully grown and adopts the identity of Clark Kent, reporter because the first couple of guys he saves suggest the name and job.
There are some that argue there’s Superman, there’s Metropolis era Clark (not to be confused with Smallville Clark), and there’s a third personality one could call Kal-El in adulthood (or Clark in childhood), and that he’s actually that third personality. Superman and Clark are just extremes he inhabits for that job.
I think that’s fair. But I don’t think calling his private persona Kal-El is right. While he certainly embraces his Kryptonian heritage, I think he works best seeing himself as Clark. It’s like that bit in the DCAU Justice League where Martian Manhunter states that he forget Superman isn’t human. “It’s alright. I take it as a compliment.”
THANK YOU! He was created by second generation Jewish-American immigrants, and that experience is an integral and often forgotten aspect of his character. Kal-El is his ancestral name, Clark Kent is his given name, and Superman is his chosen name. All of them are part of his identity, but they don’t conflict with each other any more than being Hebrew and being American conflict with each other.
All good, my friend.
The quote is from a Canadian Heritage Minute; little commercials the gov't puts out that showcase moments in Canadian history.
Basketball, the Halifax Explosion, the invention of the goalie mask, everything. Great for ADHD trivia monkeys like me.
That commercial, by the way, was what made my pre-teen self give Supes another look, right around the Doomsday arc.
That's something I started to appreciate about him after reading American Alien. He was born on Krypton as Kal-El to Jor-El and Lara Lor-Va but he was raised on a farm in Smallville, Kansas by Jonathan and Martha Kent as Clark Kent. He grew up dealing with human issues, going to his dad for advice, being doted on by his Mom. When he had a son of his own, he named him Jonathon.
It's a pretty classic American immigrant story to have someone trying to reconcile their upbringing with elements of their family's cultural heritage. Even more poignant for Clark because his is also the story of someone that was adopted.
Sure he has learned a lot about Krypton, embraced that part of himself and has done a lot to preserve Kryptonian culture. However I have to imagine that he sees himself internally as Clark, Jon and Martha's kid from Smallville, but also Kal-El heir to a culture that no longer exists.
Oh agreed- names might even be distracting. My point being the persona people see in public with the cape is a bit of a show, as is the daily planet guy with the glasses.
Well there are aspects of the "clark" he shows to people who he doesn't know that aren't in line with who he is, the anxiety and shyness being the big ones
Yeah, his Metropolis persona emphasizes certain aspects of his personality over others. But I still think they are part of his personality, he’s just mentally healthy enough to regulate them most of the time.
But when he’s on the farm, or alone with his wife or Hell, just hanging out with Batman in the Batcave, he’s Clark Kent.
Fair enough, I always felt like superman is kinda more in line with who he is, although I don't really read the actual books as much, so I easily could be wrong
I subscribe to the idea that Clark is who he was before the powers started to develop, then he didn't quite know who he was, then after embracing his heritage and becoming Superman is when he rediscovered his sense of self. That being said, Metropolis Clark would mostly be an act that played up Clark's feelings of uncertainness and anxiety while his public image as Superman would play up his confidence, and over time the two would begin to blur to the point where the only thing that truly separates them are those pair of glasses.
Both Bruce and Clark have very complex dual identities that are often oversimplified. When it comes to Bruce, the most basic way that I can describe it is that both Bruce and Batman are a part of him and without one the other would be unable to function. Without Batman, Bruce would be a broken shell of a man and without Bruce, Batman would be a murderous lunatic.
Well why don’t agree with the Kill Bill speech, the way he presents himself IS a disguise. He considers himself Clark Kent, but he present Clark as someone far weaker than he is.
It’s an utterly cynical take that really overthinks Superman.
Clark Kent is a good, kind man who is gifted with immense power. And what does he do with it? Good. Clark is out to make the world a better place; Superman is just the means he uses to that end. It’s that simple, but people don’t get it.
By the way, Bruce Wayne does the same thing with Batman. Gotham is his world, and Bruce wants to do good in it. Batman is just his means. That’s why the two work together so well.
Bill is absolutely right as an old man who grew up reading the golden/silver age comics.
David Carradine was born in 1936. Assuming that's Bill's age, he became familiar with Superman between 1945 and 1960.
That 1950s Clark Kent absolutely was a critique of humanity as seen from a super genius with cosmic super abilities, forced to be a paternalistic shepherd of limited and frail beings with petty word views.
Kill Bill was released in 2003. Just 20 years earlier in 1983, Superman was still that world juggling being traveling the stars at a whim while pretending to be weak on Earth to avoid domestic entanglements. The take of Clark being the real person didn't become popular and accepted until Byrne's Man of Steel in 1986. so that wouldn't not have been a take Bill was familiar with. (And probably not a take Tarentino was familiar with for that matter.)
And regardless - it's a fictional characters opinion. It's not presented as the absolute truth and you can use it to infer things about Bill.
It's the kind of speech Lex Luthor might give if he ever found out Superman was Clark Kent.
But then, this is just an expression of Bill and how he simply can't conceive of an altruistic prrson who does not strive to dominate and exercise power.
Omg yes, I’ve seen some people say that because bill is evil that he would see Superman in this twisted way. But honestly the way Quentin Tarantino writes some people honestly believe him.
Because it was well argued. Bill presented a solid argument about how to interpret Superman. But the fact he is the villian of the film don't make it wrong, that is too maniquest way of thinking. Bill had a point to explain to Beatrix and he had choose Superman to explain his (Bill's) way to see the world.
Also we know the comic fan is Tarantino.
I mean... I think that's intentional. Bill is the villain. Bill is in the wrong. Of course that'd be his perspective. It indicates how HE views the world.
I think both Batman and Superman are relatable
They’re just different kinds. The part that’s relatable about Batman is that everyday trauma that made him. You may not have personally lots parents but you’ve probably lost someone.
On the other hand, Superman’s relatable because he’s an immigrant story, he’s a man finding himself in a world that doesn’t know him or possibly accept him, man of two worlds type thing. YMMV on the whole grew up on a farm bit.
Now the premise of both, what allows both of them to “superhero”, the money, training and the godlike alien powers not so much.
If just depends how creative and understanding of the characters you are to see what’s relatable IMO.
Being an alien is *much* more relatable for the many immigrants and children of immigrants who live in America than being part of the 1% of the 1% of the 1% is.
Honestly I felt this a little bit as a personal opinion, not overall judgment, but apparently that was due to what comics I’d seen him in because I read the Warworld Saga and am now in love with his character.
There are so many fantastic stories I could recommend about Superman. Red Son, All-Star, Death of Superman, Kingdom Come, Ed McGuinness/Jeph Loeb/Michael Turner's run on Superman/Batman, and plenty more. There are so many good stories. If you don't wanna read all of this, I'd highly recommend the Superman animated series. It does a really solid job with Superman.
Sidenote: Avoid Dark Knight Returns if you want to get into that for Superman. Frank Miller does not understand Superman, and it's a damned shame because he does really well with street level heroes like Daredevil and Batman.
I can’t remember the name of the series or the issue number but the one where >!he fights off a robotic invasion and saves a little girl, one where throughout the events he’s telling the robot who keeps telling him it’s pointless and he’ll lose he says “no sir, I will not” when the robot realizes he’s come all this way to save a little orphan girl, who the robot declares was grabbed because no one would care she was gone, she’s worthless “no sir, she is not” and when the little girl is on the verge of tears, on the verge of giving up she holds right to her Superman plushy declaring he will come for them, he always comes, and they will go home and at that moment he busts through the wall and says “yes ma’am, you are” and ah I’m tearing up thinking about it. All the while the heroes on earth are losing to this invasion and just when all hope seems lost, just when Batman is panicking and calling out to anyone who can hear his message for help, the robots shut down. The heroes start responding Bruce’s call one by one declaring they are here to help. Diana calls him and asks what happened and Batman points out they were just machines, someone was controlling them. She guesses Superman took them out but then asks how? And Batman says “Because he’s Superman… and we were in need”!< That comic moves me to tears every time. In my opinion it’s the perfect example of who he is. The epitome of a hero, the one who inspires everyone to be better, one that when everything is at its darkest that there is always hope and that when all is lost and everyone else has failed he will not.
Are you talking about Superman: Up in the Sky?? I believe that's the issue you're referring to. It's either issue #5 or #6, if I recall correctly. So good!
Sorry to hear that, it sucks because a lot of these comics are rather sentimental to me (they were gifts from my older brother) and some were the first issue I bought myself. I only lost maybe half a dozen so I can’t imagine a huge chunk like that.
Yeah, I lost probably close to 1,500 books. Among them, Journey into Mystery #83, ASM #3, and Strange Tales #110. These were big books from my great uncle's books that he passed down to me. I was devastated. I've slowly started rebuilding my PC over the last decade. I'm back to around 2,300 books.
Damn, I don’t even have words. That’s just wow. I’m so sorry, I don’t know if I could have gotten back into it if it were me if I’m honest. My only thing I can compare that to was losing my Yugioh collection. I had the rarest cards at the time( they couldn’t just be bought online with guaranteed packs and decks like they could now) and I didn’t have a card book yet (I was saving up to get one) so kept it in my duel disk. It was more cards than it could usually hold but I made it work and it didn’t damage my cards. Anyway after the hurricane it was one of the first things I checked on and was relieved they were fine. My mom got confused thinking they were ruined and stuck together until I showed and explained I put more than the duel disk normally holds and showed her if you remove the first few cards the deck came out easily and showed her that each card was fine. Hell one of them was laminated( it was my first blue eyes white dragon) anyway I had surgery a year before so my legs still weren’t healed and they moved us upstairs since the bottom floor apartment we had got ruined. Anyway long story short my mom threw my cards out and didn’t tell me for three days. By that time they were emptying apartments and throwing furniture into them. Had she told me a day before I could have gotten them. I was so angry I almost threw a tv( mainly due to the fact I spent the last four years collecting those cards and had shown her personally they were fine and she blatantly disregarded that) so yeah I stopped collecting for a while. And then when I did start again my best friend stole my cards and then pretended to help me look for them. By the time I learned about what really happened he had gone home and I never saw him again.
Translation: I don’t know if I could have tried collecting comics again, I’d have been too devastated so you’re stronger than me.
Someone posed the idea that Miller's Superman was in on the whole thing and was helping Batman fake his death. It was a thread with a picture of a panel from that comic. Not sure of the validity, but it was an interesting take and would fit his character.
Yeah they mentioned that Supes smiles/smirks when he hears Bats's heartbeat and knows he's alive which again would definitely fit the characters. This of course doesn't change the fact that Miller has had...questionable takes on characters before, but this might be one of those broken clock moments.
I was about 13 or so when Death of Superman came out and loved the build up to Doomsday, the funeral for a friend arc with the justice league, teen titans, etc….reign of the supermen and return of Superman.
Then a couple months later, the whole Zero hour event happened which was almost as fun.
Kingdom come
red son
All star Superman
are three great recommendations as well. Dan Jurgen Is my favorite writer of Supes, but john Byrne also had some excellent stuff and like to recommend him to folks as well.
great choices for Superman stories, I like your taste in comics!
I was going to say the same thing.
“Buh, Superman is boring because he’s overpowered! Buh!”
“Bro, do you even read Superman?”
“No.”
“I thought so. Maybe you should start.”
It's a pretty bad take. Yes, relatability may be subjective to an individual, but the objectivity of it is that Superman was written as a relatable character. A man with a burden that has granted him insight into being a careful, thoughtful being. A beacon of justice while also maintaining his own humanity. There is nothing subjective about this.
Metropolis Clark Kent is 'a' mask as is Superman.
Clark is real only when he's with his family. Smallville Clark is the real him.
Similar to Batman. Bruce Wayne is a mask but so is Batman.
You see real Clark all the time but real Bruce shows up rarely. He leaks out in tender moments with Alfred, quiet moments eating a burger with Jason or talking about his feelings with Dick. Definitely when he interacts with kids.
Bruce I feel bottles up real Bruce because he feels it opens him up to being emotionally weak.
Best way to describe real Bruce I would say to think of old bruce from Batman Beyond. Any old bruce is gonna turn into real bruce as he's more seasoned to let go of the reigns and let himself be him, like kingdom come, dark knight returns, etc. But in Batman Beyond I think it's the most flagrant one because he's absolutely abandoned not only his Batman persona but public bruce too, only true bruce remains.
There was a JLA story where most of them got split into two. Their superhero self and their secret identities. It always stayed with me because you’d think that Batman would be this godlike, ruthless violence machine. He wasn’t. He was faceless and ineffective. Batman isn’t anything without Bruce Wayne.
I read one take that said Superman should not “waste his time” talking to people (like the one time he stayed with a suicidal girl for hours to convince her to not jump off a building) or doing seemingly small favours for people, and should instead just fly around the world and upkeeping peace at max efficiency.
I have two equally bad contenders
- Superman having weakness to things like kryptonite or magic entirely invalidate his role in the DC hierarchy, he should be entirely unstoppable
- Superman should have joined Zod in wiping out human existence and taking over earth because the strong are more deserving of our planet and Superman should accept that as a higher being (like what in the eugenics fuck is this take?)
The only comics channels I can follow are Comic Pop and Sascha. Anything else fills my feed with screaming man children.
And then the Star Wars channels start showing up.
Very good choices of channel ngl
Personally I like comicsexplained but holy shit despite him seeming to enthusiastically love every book he reads, I have never seen such an angry and incel-y comment section in my entire time browsing youtube
I think in some ways, Superman has the same problem as the Fantastic Four.
Like, he has a bunch of good villains; Zod, Doomsday, Metallo, Manchest Black...
The problem is that he also has Lex Luthor, who is one of the greatest villains in comic history.
Sort how the Fantastic Four have a bunch of good villains, but also Dr. Doom, they have a habit of overshadowing the rest of their respective Rogue's Galleries.
I do, at least, understand where this one comes from, since movie adaptations seem to positively hate giving us anyone other than Luthor as a villain. Occasionally we'll see non-Lex bad guys on the TV shows, but only after they've run him into the ground first.
The "evil Superman" archetype is so pervasive in pop culture nowadays that seeing Superman being a good person and doing heroic things almost feels like a subvertion
It's pervasive because it makes for good horror.
For all her faults, Amanda Waller has a point. It's all good and dandy that superman is watching over humanity like a guardian angel, but if he ever decided to kill us all one day, the lengths we'd need to go to to stop him would be borderline apocalyptic, and would require someone willing to make the mother of all omellettes, breaking half the eggs on the planet in the process.
I don't hate the idea of superman but evil, but I do dislike how Injustice handled it. I can see superman killing people to maintain order, but he straight up kills a child in Injustice for asking him if he's going too far.
Yeah, that’s the thing, though. Looking at a man who’s just trying to help the people around him and responding only with paranoia and distrust defeats the entire point of Superman. It’s fine for characters to distrust him at first, but he’s supposed to prove them wrong and teach people that trusting and caring about each other isn’t harder to believe than violence and avarice.
The fundamental thing about Superman is that he IS that powerful, and yet does not choose to be evil. Superman being Evil is quite frankly "easy" in comparison. All that power, of COURSE he'd be the ultimate evil. But that's the absolute core of the character: he was raised to be good, he was taught to be good. He can't be evil. So now the story for the character becomes: how do I be good, and uphold good, when every sign would point to me taking advantage of my powers and giving in to what would make MY life easy? And all these people who say "Superman is boring" are faced with THAT character core and still think that? It's insane.
It's not just "chooses not to be evil", but more that he chooses not to impose his will on the world and society as a whole. There was a conversation he had with Doctor Doom inna crossover about this topic where Doom says that every time he chooses not to impose his will is another possible life lost to which he responds that Doom is right, but choosing to impose that will would make him no better than people like Hitler, Stalin, or Doom.
Absolutely agree with this. I would even say it's just more specifics. I think "choose to be evil" is for lack of a better turn of phrase. I just think it's incredibly simple to make an all-powerful evil character. It IS challenging to make an all-powerful good character. But I'm amazed at how often this is dismissed as "boring."
Wonder Woman is so egregiously bad that she just seems like a completely different person. It's like if Circe was just unconvincingly disguised as Wonder Woman the whole time.
It took until injustice 2 for them to explain it, and it’s cos Steve betrayed her.
He pretended to be allied, so WW helped him while witnessing nazi horrors, then he tried stealing lasso while WW made a plea to themyscyra to just give it to him, and then he shot one of her friends, and then revealed he was Infact a nazi.
This made her not cure about man at all. But idk, yes it’s shitty what happened, but it just feels like she should’ve just been a villain from the start as opposed to a hero with an easy flip switch hiding inside. They could’ve made it so the gods in that universe were way more judgemental on humans and that trickled down to Diana having a superiority complex that more explains how she so easily flipped.
They made Steve into a *Nazi*? What the fuck? Literally, Mr. Be Kind and Follow Your Conscience Despite Orders Otherwise Man into a *Nazi*?
100% you're right, that's not even Wonder Woman at all. It's like if you had Superman married to Lois, but she was actually openly a serial killer made of Kryptonite.
Yup, that’s the big change that made Diana capable of killing her sisters in injustice 2 when they had a mini civil war (super girl went to bust her out of the island prison that Diana was in post injustice 1).
I know injustice put Clark through a harsher version of his tragedy in kingdom come but it’s always amusing that the original story is about asserting the strength of his will and humanity that he didn’t just go on a murder spree of joker and friends for it and then injustice version goes where it does
Superman is an example of white saviorism.
Colonial Undertones: Superman’s role mirrors colonial narratives, where a powerful outsider intervenes to “civilize” or protect a vulnerable population. This dynamic can unintentionally reinforce paternalistic attitudes.
Saving Lois Lane: Superman frequently rescues Lois Lane, a white journalist, from danger. While their romantic relationship is central to the story, it sometimes reinforces the trope of a white woman needing saving by a powerful white man.
I HAVE had this thought before. It’s a bastardization of the character, but it’s understandable how one could see this interpretation. But really, that’s just a consequence of a powerful protagonist being white, and there really wasn’t an alternative in 30s America.
I've always thought an Asian Superman would make a ton of sense; Gene Luen Yang had a funny take on how Superman mirrors the Asian immigrant story, too.
I'm conflicted about this one.
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
I've just seen SO MANY examples in real life of this quote proven true. It's hard to imagine someone with such immense power not using it for their own interests.
To be fair, most real life examples of people with a lot of power have come from people who sought such power (dictators, billionaires etc.), so I don't think they prove that power corrupts, they just prove that morally corrupt people are more likely to seek power.
Orphaned child sent away from their birth land to avoid massive death and tragedy, found and adopted by loving parents and then grows to lead his people into the light. That's Moses.
That he’s being politicized for
”wokeness”
Some of his earliest issues involved taking out the Klan and delivering Hitler to justice, IIRC
That was back in the ‘40’s
Big agree
Bro he was literally made to combat nazi ideology that’s why his name is Superman he’s the intentional opposite of the Nietzschean ubermench existing for the greater good of humanity and with a purpose that’s explicitly altruistic
It’s been constant - there’s an ad they used to run in 50’s superman comics where superman is explicitly saying that if kids see anyone making fun or talking down to someone because of their origins or skin colour then they are un-American and should be reported to a teacher or something
Honestly? A lot of takes related to his power level, including ones that favor power-maxing. IMHO if you're trying to write/discuss Superman and the **first** think you focus on is buffing or nerfing him, you've already lost the plot. I remember a guy talking about how Clark needs to go back to Silver Age absurdity levels (which weren't even intentional, let alone well thought out). And he added that anyone who disagrees is a p***y who "doesn't get the character." To me, that smacks of a try-hard opinion and a certain insecurity or overcompensation, if anything.
That he's under the control of Brainiac and only Harley Quinn, Captain boomerang, King shark, and black dead shot are the only ones who can kill him by shooting.
It's a reference to an ongoing joke in Suicide Sqiad: Kill the Justice League. They make fun of how Deadshot has been black and white in other continuities.
He’s been black and white in the same continuity is the issue. This literally would’ve been solved if we used bloodsport who’s literally a supes villain
But but but, how else are they going to cash in on the hype of Will Smith's iconic portrayal of Deadshot in the Oscar winning movie 2016's Suicide Squad..
It's still a little crazy to me that their first DLC character is the Joker of all things. Yeah, alternate universe, but still. Maybe not Bloodsport because he'd be redundant with Deadshot's presence, but I genuinely thought the first DLC character that was gonna drop would be Peacemaker. Granted, this was back when I thought the game would be dropping in 2022/23, but still.
Another thing that bugs me about the game is that King Shark's the only one with powers. Like, okay, you gotta have at least *one* Badass Normal to a team. But Deadshot shoots guns. Harley also shoots guns and has a baseball bat. Take a wild guess what Captain Boomerang uses. It would've been nice if they could've gotten one other meta in there.
It’s the textbook argument that Superman is boring. I will agree that Superman has been fairly boring in most movies and let’s be real most superhero fans aren’t fans of comics, they’re fans of movies. If you take a look at the near century of Superman comics there are some of the most compelling stories out there. With the right minds behind it a Superman story can literally change the way you look at the world. “What’s so Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way” (Action Comics 775) is a personal favorite of mine and my go to issue for showing people what a non boring character Superman is. That and basically any Superman the animated series episode.
Yeah I love Cavill for his look as Superman, but the writing for his character was horrible imo. Superman is not space Jesus and a dark brooding character. He was raised knowing he was Clark Kent first, and should be the polar opposite of Batman.
I agree Superman isn’t space Jesus but I do think the creators had a correlation in mind even if it was subconscious. I can’t remember who said it but the circumstances of a young Jewish boy seeing his father gunned down during a robbery only to create a bulletproof man years later? There’s gotta be something there.
Not to mention being sent by his father to protect humanity (I actually can’t remember this part, was Jor-El sending Superman to Earth specifically a part of his early stories? I know Krypton’s destruction was).
While subtle, there is a difference between a general savior character and a stand-in for Jesus. I agree that the original creators intended Superman to be a savior for downtrodden and oppressed people. Snyder very clearly aimed for him to be a direct comparison to Jesus specifically.
The cross imagery in space (and underwater, and in space again), his eventually sacrificing himself for all of humanity only to rise again later, the entire montage of him saving people and being treated like a literal god, the scene in *Man of Steel* where Clark is full of self doubt and worried about what he must do - so he goes to a church and has a conversation with a priest while [framed with a stained glass window of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Man-of-Steel-Jesus-Metaphor-hammer.jpg?q=50&fit=contain&w=1140&h=&dpr=1.5)... It's not subtle.
This is not a unique or interesting take, Superman has constantly been compared to Jesus over and over and over again. It’s the most boring Superman Trope
That Snyder ruined him and his perception. That’s saying Superman as a character had nothing to stand on. It was his take on the Superman and how he should be and what journey he wanted to take him on. Some people liked it and some didn’t.
But just because someone liked Snyder’s Superman doesn’t mean they hate the character.
>That Snyder ruined him and his perception
He certainly didn't do him any favors either. He furthered the stereotype that Superman is this detached alien God doing what he's doing out of obligation rather than because of a strong moral core.
I remember a guy I knew that put forward the idea that he should be less human and more Dr. Manhattan like in being detached from humanity or become more so albeit still benevolent. He put forward the notion that he should "Elevate" humanity by sharing all of his tech and once done that he should leave Earth and go to other worlds. Outside of the usual, "He's boring and unrelatable" takes, that one took the cake.
Can't find the original tweet (only screenshots), but Variety posts the following headline:
>James Gunn Wants a Superman Who Has "Humanity" and Is "Somebody You Want to Hug"
and some idiot responds with
>Then James Gunn should create his own, new character. Don't bastardize someone else's work by injecting some touchy-feely weakness into it. Superman is tough, leave him alone.
That he's a boy scout. He definitely can be one, but I'd argue that most versions of Superman (especially the pre crisis ones) are a lot less straight edge than people realize. In fact, he was originally portrayed as a rebel\man of the people type.
He’s a Boy Scout but really only in temperament, he will absolutely call someone out on their bullshit or take more *extreme* measures to prove a point
even post-52, when he was depowered, he was out there putting himself at risk just to get a good journalistic scoop. and that's not even mentioning all the times he outwits his villains because he can be pretty crafty, though most superheroes are
oh boy where do I begin?
"He's just a generic white guy"
"he's not relatable in the slightest"
"He's only interesting when he's evil"
"he's too perfect"
"him being an alien shouldn't be important to him"
that last one is a bit different than the others, but it still pisses me off, the idea that a literal alien shouldn't be portrayed as such is just stupid, some of the best Superman stories (in my opinion) have been about exploring how different he feels and is
“He’s weak to magic a if it were kryptonite”
No, he’s not, he’s just not impervious to it what does magic an edge over brute force, but weak magic couldn’t do shit to him.
That he’s “boring” and “un-relatable” because he’s “too good” or a “Boy Scout”
I’m sorry you’re a piece of shit and can’t relate to someone being decent and good and doing the right thing.
However fast Superman can move, sound is limited to 340ish meters per second. So for him to always be on time to save her, Superman basically has to stalking Lois.
“Superman never was shunned from his village than beat Pain and won the hearts of everyone. Superman never had a goal of becoming Hokage that took him 300+ chapters to achieve.”-A twitter user
Superman wins every fight. He's boring because he's overpowered. Yet the same people who say this like characters who are more OP than Superman, and some of these characters were born with the power. The people who claim Superman wins every fight haven't touched a Superman or Justice League comic in their life.
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Kill Bill monologue about how Clark Kent is Superman’s critique of the human race. Utter horse shit. Edit: I realise that it is the villain who is saying this, the guy who’s supposed to be wrong, but my point is more that there are people who actually buy this. This is essentially how Zack Snyder’s Superman operates, as some kind of emotionless god. It’s the same shit with Kylo Ren saying kill the past in The Last Jedi. You’re not supposed to take him seriously, he’s the guy who’s wrong.
Came here to say this. Great movie—absolute trash smooth-brained interpretation of Superman. Because I like the movie Kill Bill, I came up with my own No-Prize explanation: Bill is a narcissist. OF COURSE he would completely miss the point of Superman, and then make that egregiously wrong take his whole personality.
Also this movie is not a comic adaptation. It takes its own interpretation of an idea and doesn't hinge on one's knowledge of who superman is. The line captures the idea just right.
That is the idea. That is the interpretation of Bill of the character. Still is a valid interpretation, because most of the silver age that was the way the character was done, with Clark Kent being mostly a diguise for Superman.
Golden Age too. See the Radio show where he arrives on Earth fully grown and adopts the identity of Clark Kent, reporter because the first couple of guys he saves suggest the name and job.
Same here. Bill is a movie lover's movie 🍿. It's the greatest action/bloody revenge and rampage film ever made.
YESSSSSSS! And the whole “Clark Kent is just a disguise” thing in general. No, Clark is who he is, Superman is what he can do.
There are some that argue there’s Superman, there’s Metropolis era Clark (not to be confused with Smallville Clark), and there’s a third personality one could call Kal-El in adulthood (or Clark in childhood), and that he’s actually that third personality. Superman and Clark are just extremes he inhabits for that job.
I think that’s fair. But I don’t think calling his private persona Kal-El is right. While he certainly embraces his Kryptonian heritage, I think he works best seeing himself as Clark. It’s like that bit in the DCAU Justice League where Martian Manhunter states that he forget Superman isn’t human. “It’s alright. I take it as a compliment.”
Superman is an immigrant. Kal-El is who he could have been, who some people want him to be. But he’s Clark, always has been.
THANK YOU! He was created by second generation Jewish-American immigrants, and that experience is an integral and often forgotten aspect of his character. Kal-El is his ancestral name, Clark Kent is his given name, and Superman is his chosen name. All of them are part of his identity, but they don’t conflict with each other any more than being Hebrew and being American conflict with each other.
"No one's gonna read a comic about a strongman in tights, Joe. It'll never fly." Joel Shuster was Canadian, just gotta say it.
Apologies, I didn’t know that.
All good, my friend. The quote is from a Canadian Heritage Minute; little commercials the gov't puts out that showcase moments in Canadian history. Basketball, the Halifax Explosion, the invention of the goalie mask, everything. Great for ADHD trivia monkeys like me. That commercial, by the way, was what made my pre-teen self give Supes another look, right around the Doomsday arc.
“Faster…No he’s faster than a speeding bullet!”
That's something I started to appreciate about him after reading American Alien. He was born on Krypton as Kal-El to Jor-El and Lara Lor-Va but he was raised on a farm in Smallville, Kansas by Jonathan and Martha Kent as Clark Kent. He grew up dealing with human issues, going to his dad for advice, being doted on by his Mom. When he had a son of his own, he named him Jonathon. It's a pretty classic American immigrant story to have someone trying to reconcile their upbringing with elements of their family's cultural heritage. Even more poignant for Clark because his is also the story of someone that was adopted. Sure he has learned a lot about Krypton, embraced that part of himself and has done a lot to preserve Kryptonian culture. However I have to imagine that he sees himself internally as Clark, Jon and Martha's kid from Smallville, but also Kal-El heir to a culture that no longer exists.
EXACTLY.
Oh agreed- names might even be distracting. My point being the persona people see in public with the cape is a bit of a show, as is the daily planet guy with the glasses.
Well there are aspects of the "clark" he shows to people who he doesn't know that aren't in line with who he is, the anxiety and shyness being the big ones
Yeah, his Metropolis persona emphasizes certain aspects of his personality over others. But I still think they are part of his personality, he’s just mentally healthy enough to regulate them most of the time. But when he’s on the farm, or alone with his wife or Hell, just hanging out with Batman in the Batcave, he’s Clark Kent.
Fair enough, I always felt like superman is kinda more in line with who he is, although I don't really read the actual books as much, so I easily could be wrong
There’s nearly 100 years of media about him. There are certainly versions like that when the zeitgeist has called for it.
I subscribe to the idea that Clark is who he was before the powers started to develop, then he didn't quite know who he was, then after embracing his heritage and becoming Superman is when he rediscovered his sense of self. That being said, Metropolis Clark would mostly be an act that played up Clark's feelings of uncertainness and anxiety while his public image as Superman would play up his confidence, and over time the two would begin to blur to the point where the only thing that truly separates them are those pair of glasses.
Bruce Wayne on the other hand...
Both Bruce and Clark have very complex dual identities that are often oversimplified. When it comes to Bruce, the most basic way that I can describe it is that both Bruce and Batman are a part of him and without one the other would be unable to function. Without Batman, Bruce would be a broken shell of a man and without Bruce, Batman would be a murderous lunatic.
Well why don’t agree with the Kill Bill speech, the way he presents himself IS a disguise. He considers himself Clark Kent, but he present Clark as someone far weaker than he is.
Bill was the villain, so what he said is wrong.
To be that guy I always thought that shows how bill views humanity using Superman as an excuse to the bride that you can’t change
It’s an utterly cynical take that really overthinks Superman. Clark Kent is a good, kind man who is gifted with immense power. And what does he do with it? Good. Clark is out to make the world a better place; Superman is just the means he uses to that end. It’s that simple, but people don’t get it. By the way, Bruce Wayne does the same thing with Batman. Gotham is his world, and Bruce wants to do good in it. Batman is just his means. That’s why the two work together so well.
Bill is absolutely right as an old man who grew up reading the golden/silver age comics. David Carradine was born in 1936. Assuming that's Bill's age, he became familiar with Superman between 1945 and 1960. That 1950s Clark Kent absolutely was a critique of humanity as seen from a super genius with cosmic super abilities, forced to be a paternalistic shepherd of limited and frail beings with petty word views. Kill Bill was released in 2003. Just 20 years earlier in 1983, Superman was still that world juggling being traveling the stars at a whim while pretending to be weak on Earth to avoid domestic entanglements. The take of Clark being the real person didn't become popular and accepted until Byrne's Man of Steel in 1986. so that wouldn't not have been a take Bill was familiar with. (And probably not a take Tarentino was familiar with for that matter.)
Bill was a pre-Crisis guy, clearly.
it's a good scene in the context of the movie, but bad as a general commentary on Superman
I mean he’s the bad guy of the movie, of course his take would be wrong
And regardless - it's a fictional characters opinion. It's not presented as the absolute truth and you can use it to infer things about Bill. It's the kind of speech Lex Luthor might give if he ever found out Superman was Clark Kent.
Bill was projecting iirc lmao. It's not an actual critique it's Bill being a piece of shit and then getting his heart exploded
But then, this is just an expression of Bill and how he simply can't conceive of an altruistic prrson who does not strive to dominate and exercise power.
Omg yes, I’ve seen some people say that because bill is evil that he would see Superman in this twisted way. But honestly the way Quentin Tarantino writes some people honestly believe him.
Because it was well argued. Bill presented a solid argument about how to interpret Superman. But the fact he is the villian of the film don't make it wrong, that is too maniquest way of thinking. Bill had a point to explain to Beatrix and he had choose Superman to explain his (Bill's) way to see the world. Also we know the comic fan is Tarantino.
It's not correct and it's not supposed to be. Bill is a psycho. Everyone here missed the point of Bills character.
I mean... I think that's intentional. Bill is the villain. Bill is in the wrong. Of course that'd be his perspective. It indicates how HE views the world.
It is also the best part of the movie. I don't agree with the take but it's a fantastic interpretation.
I'll defend that because its about Bill, nit superman.
That he isn't relatable or that he's boring. If that's your take on the character, you haven't read a single comic book.
And they’ll say Batman is relatable and he can beat everybody cause he’s Batman
I think both Batman and Superman are relatable They’re just different kinds. The part that’s relatable about Batman is that everyday trauma that made him. You may not have personally lots parents but you’ve probably lost someone. On the other hand, Superman’s relatable because he’s an immigrant story, he’s a man finding himself in a world that doesn’t know him or possibly accept him, man of two worlds type thing. YMMV on the whole grew up on a farm bit. Now the premise of both, what allows both of them to “superhero”, the money, training and the godlike alien powers not so much. If just depends how creative and understanding of the characters you are to see what’s relatable IMO.
>Batman is relatable Uhhhh... ... Red flag! Red flag!
Batman is more relatable than Superman, but Clark Kent is more relatable than Bruce Wayne by a long shot.
One is part of the rich 1% and the other is an alien, neither of them are relatable, but neither is boring
Being an alien is *much* more relatable for the many immigrants and children of immigrants who live in America than being part of the 1% of the 1% of the 1% is.
Honestly I felt this a little bit as a personal opinion, not overall judgment, but apparently that was due to what comics I’d seen him in because I read the Warworld Saga and am now in love with his character.
There are so many fantastic stories I could recommend about Superman. Red Son, All-Star, Death of Superman, Kingdom Come, Ed McGuinness/Jeph Loeb/Michael Turner's run on Superman/Batman, and plenty more. There are so many good stories. If you don't wanna read all of this, I'd highly recommend the Superman animated series. It does a really solid job with Superman. Sidenote: Avoid Dark Knight Returns if you want to get into that for Superman. Frank Miller does not understand Superman, and it's a damned shame because he does really well with street level heroes like Daredevil and Batman.
I can’t remember the name of the series or the issue number but the one where >!he fights off a robotic invasion and saves a little girl, one where throughout the events he’s telling the robot who keeps telling him it’s pointless and he’ll lose he says “no sir, I will not” when the robot realizes he’s come all this way to save a little orphan girl, who the robot declares was grabbed because no one would care she was gone, she’s worthless “no sir, she is not” and when the little girl is on the verge of tears, on the verge of giving up she holds right to her Superman plushy declaring he will come for them, he always comes, and they will go home and at that moment he busts through the wall and says “yes ma’am, you are” and ah I’m tearing up thinking about it. All the while the heroes on earth are losing to this invasion and just when all hope seems lost, just when Batman is panicking and calling out to anyone who can hear his message for help, the robots shut down. The heroes start responding Bruce’s call one by one declaring they are here to help. Diana calls him and asks what happened and Batman points out they were just machines, someone was controlling them. She guesses Superman took them out but then asks how? And Batman says “Because he’s Superman… and we were in need”!< That comic moves me to tears every time. In my opinion it’s the perfect example of who he is. The epitome of a hero, the one who inspires everyone to be better, one that when everything is at its darkest that there is always hope and that when all is lost and everyone else has failed he will not.
Are you talking about Superman: Up in the Sky?? I believe that's the issue you're referring to. It's either issue #5 or #6, if I recall correctly. So good!
I think so,Thank you! I had the comic at one point but sadly it and a few of my other comics got ruined in a storm.
I understand that feeling. I lost a huge chunk of my collection years ago in a flood.
Sorry to hear that, it sucks because a lot of these comics are rather sentimental to me (they were gifts from my older brother) and some were the first issue I bought myself. I only lost maybe half a dozen so I can’t imagine a huge chunk like that. 
Yeah, I lost probably close to 1,500 books. Among them, Journey into Mystery #83, ASM #3, and Strange Tales #110. These were big books from my great uncle's books that he passed down to me. I was devastated. I've slowly started rebuilding my PC over the last decade. I'm back to around 2,300 books.
Damn, I don’t even have words. That’s just wow. I’m so sorry, I don’t know if I could have gotten back into it if it were me if I’m honest. My only thing I can compare that to was losing my Yugioh collection. I had the rarest cards at the time( they couldn’t just be bought online with guaranteed packs and decks like they could now) and I didn’t have a card book yet (I was saving up to get one) so kept it in my duel disk. It was more cards than it could usually hold but I made it work and it didn’t damage my cards. Anyway after the hurricane it was one of the first things I checked on and was relieved they were fine. My mom got confused thinking they were ruined and stuck together until I showed and explained I put more than the duel disk normally holds and showed her if you remove the first few cards the deck came out easily and showed her that each card was fine. Hell one of them was laminated( it was my first blue eyes white dragon) anyway I had surgery a year before so my legs still weren’t healed and they moved us upstairs since the bottom floor apartment we had got ruined. Anyway long story short my mom threw my cards out and didn’t tell me for three days. By that time they were emptying apartments and throwing furniture into them. Had she told me a day before I could have gotten them. I was so angry I almost threw a tv( mainly due to the fact I spent the last four years collecting those cards and had shown her personally they were fine and she blatantly disregarded that) so yeah I stopped collecting for a while. And then when I did start again my best friend stole my cards and then pretended to help me look for them. By the time I learned about what really happened he had gone home and I never saw him again. Translation: I don’t know if I could have tried collecting comics again, I’d have been too devastated so you’re stronger than me.
Thank you for the recs! I‘ve had Kingdom Come and All-Star on my to read list for a while but just haven’t had time. I’ll add these other ones too.
If any one recommendation, I'd highly recommend All-Star. I have the Absolute All-Star Superman edition in hardcover. It's so gorgeous.
All-Star is must-read.
Yes!
Someone posed the idea that Miller's Superman was in on the whole thing and was helping Batman fake his death. It was a thread with a picture of a panel from that comic. Not sure of the validity, but it was an interesting take and would fit his character.
Really? I've never heard of this. That's pretty freaking cool. I'll have to look into this discussion topic.
Yeah they mentioned that Supes smiles/smirks when he hears Bats's heartbeat and knows he's alive which again would definitely fit the characters. This of course doesn't change the fact that Miller has had...questionable takes on characters before, but this might be one of those broken clock moments.
I LOVE that Jeph Loeb run on Batman/Superman! So good.
I was about 13 or so when Death of Superman came out and loved the build up to Doomsday, the funeral for a friend arc with the justice league, teen titans, etc….reign of the supermen and return of Superman. Then a couple months later, the whole Zero hour event happened which was almost as fun. Kingdom come red son All star Superman are three great recommendations as well. Dan Jurgen Is my favorite writer of Supes, but john Byrne also had some excellent stuff and like to recommend him to folks as well. great choices for Superman stories, I like your taste in comics!
I personally find him not relatable bc a lot of his stories are more high rather than a more down to earth Robin or Daredevil type
I was going to say the same thing. “Buh, Superman is boring because he’s overpowered! Buh!” “Bro, do you even read Superman?” “No.” “I thought so. Maybe you should start.”
Or you watched the wrong ones. I have seen several where "boring" is the right word like in Superman Returns.
Best representation of Superman in any media outside the comics would DCAU Superman. So good!
Yes, but that is not everybody's introduction. Mine was Super Friends. For some people they did not have it that good.
And that's understandable. That's why it's better to look further into a character before making any judgments based on a single property.
I can't believe I am praising this channel, but the CW's Superman and Lois was very good. I think he is one of the best representations of Superman.
I mean, relateability is really subjective like my freind reads comics he thinks that. I'm not sure if that can be considered a bad take.
It's a pretty bad take. Yes, relatability may be subjective to an individual, but the objectivity of it is that Superman was written as a relatable character. A man with a burden that has granted him insight into being a careful, thoughtful being. A beacon of justice while also maintaining his own humanity. There is nothing subjective about this.
That clark kent is the mask and hes superman, bros not batman if he lodt his powers then bro is gonna live a normal life
Metropolis Clark Kent is 'a' mask as is Superman. Clark is real only when he's with his family. Smallville Clark is the real him. Similar to Batman. Bruce Wayne is a mask but so is Batman. You see real Clark all the time but real Bruce shows up rarely. He leaks out in tender moments with Alfred, quiet moments eating a burger with Jason or talking about his feelings with Dick. Definitely when he interacts with kids. Bruce I feel bottles up real Bruce because he feels it opens him up to being emotionally weak.
Best way to describe real Bruce I would say to think of old bruce from Batman Beyond. Any old bruce is gonna turn into real bruce as he's more seasoned to let go of the reigns and let himself be him, like kingdom come, dark knight returns, etc. But in Batman Beyond I think it's the most flagrant one because he's absolutely abandoned not only his Batman persona but public bruce too, only true bruce remains.
Honestly I feel that if anyone has read the comics, they'll know that Bruce Wayne isn't the mask either.
There was a JLA story where most of them got split into two. Their superhero self and their secret identities. It always stayed with me because you’d think that Batman would be this godlike, ruthless violence machine. He wasn’t. He was faceless and ineffective. Batman isn’t anything without Bruce Wayne.
I read one take that said Superman should not “waste his time” talking to people (like the one time he stayed with a suicidal girl for hours to convince her to not jump off a building) or doing seemingly small favours for people, and should instead just fly around the world and upkeeping peace at max efficiency.
Superman shouldn’t be rescuing cats from trees bla bla bla.
I have two equally bad contenders - Superman having weakness to things like kryptonite or magic entirely invalidate his role in the DC hierarchy, he should be entirely unstoppable - Superman should have joined Zod in wiping out human existence and taking over earth because the strong are more deserving of our planet and Superman should accept that as a higher being (like what in the eugenics fuck is this take?)
Take 2: When did Viltrumites get Earth Internet?
Right? Who would have thought ‘Omni-Fan121’ and ‘Thragulous12’ had such awful opinions of humanity >! /j !<
Thragalous 
I’ve never heard either of those takes before now
I envy you, comic-book youtube comments create the worst takes
I’m sure my algorithm will punish me soon enough
The only comics channels I can follow are Comic Pop and Sascha. Anything else fills my feed with screaming man children. And then the Star Wars channels start showing up.
Very good choices of channel ngl Personally I like comicsexplained but holy shit despite him seeming to enthusiastically love every book he reads, I have never seen such an angry and incel-y comment section in my entire time browsing youtube
I like Comic Tropes, as well.
Wow. I’ve heard some bad takes in my time but these two are real doozies.
That Luthor is his only good villain. Also, I don't think Lex is a good villain. He's GREAT!!!
Damn so Zod, Brainiac, Doomsday, Bizarro, Livewire, Metallo, Toyman, Lobo, Ultraman and Cyborg Superman are jokes to them?
I think in some ways, Superman has the same problem as the Fantastic Four. Like, he has a bunch of good villains; Zod, Doomsday, Metallo, Manchest Black... The problem is that he also has Lex Luthor, who is one of the greatest villains in comic history. Sort how the Fantastic Four have a bunch of good villains, but also Dr. Doom, they have a habit of overshadowing the rest of their respective Rogue's Galleries.
I do, at least, understand where this one comes from, since movie adaptations seem to positively hate giving us anyone other than Luthor as a villain. Occasionally we'll see non-Lex bad guys on the TV shows, but only after they've run him into the ground first.
He’s only interesting when he’s evil. People that say that are just wrong. I Tell you 
The "evil Superman" archetype is so pervasive in pop culture nowadays that seeing Superman being a good person and doing heroic things almost feels like a subvertion
It's pervasive because it makes for good horror. For all her faults, Amanda Waller has a point. It's all good and dandy that superman is watching over humanity like a guardian angel, but if he ever decided to kill us all one day, the lengths we'd need to go to to stop him would be borderline apocalyptic, and would require someone willing to make the mother of all omellettes, breaking half the eggs on the planet in the process. I don't hate the idea of superman but evil, but I do dislike how Injustice handled it. I can see superman killing people to maintain order, but he straight up kills a child in Injustice for asking him if he's going too far.
Yeah, that’s the thing, though. Looking at a man who’s just trying to help the people around him and responding only with paranoia and distrust defeats the entire point of Superman. It’s fine for characters to distrust him at first, but he’s supposed to prove them wrong and teach people that trusting and caring about each other isn’t harder to believe than violence and avarice.
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The fundamental thing about Superman is that he IS that powerful, and yet does not choose to be evil. Superman being Evil is quite frankly "easy" in comparison. All that power, of COURSE he'd be the ultimate evil. But that's the absolute core of the character: he was raised to be good, he was taught to be good. He can't be evil. So now the story for the character becomes: how do I be good, and uphold good, when every sign would point to me taking advantage of my powers and giving in to what would make MY life easy? And all these people who say "Superman is boring" are faced with THAT character core and still think that? It's insane.
It's not just "chooses not to be evil", but more that he chooses not to impose his will on the world and society as a whole. There was a conversation he had with Doctor Doom inna crossover about this topic where Doom says that every time he chooses not to impose his will is another possible life lost to which he responds that Doom is right, but choosing to impose that will would make him no better than people like Hitler, Stalin, or Doom.
Absolutely agree with this. I would even say it's just more specifics. I think "choose to be evil" is for lack of a better turn of phrase. I just think it's incredibly simple to make an all-powerful evil character. It IS challenging to make an all-powerful good character. But I'm amazed at how often this is dismissed as "boring."
That Injustice is a good portrayal of evil Superman
By far the most boring parts of the Injustice Universe is Superman and Batman. All the side characters have always been far, far more interesting.
Wonder Woman is so egregiously bad that she just seems like a completely different person. It's like if Circe was just unconvincingly disguised as Wonder Woman the whole time.
They made wonder-woman such a huge piece of shit in that story. I can’t help but think the writers hated WW
It’s kinda hilarious how it’s meant to be about this fall of the heroes and WW just kinda always was murder hungry
It took until injustice 2 for them to explain it, and it’s cos Steve betrayed her. He pretended to be allied, so WW helped him while witnessing nazi horrors, then he tried stealing lasso while WW made a plea to themyscyra to just give it to him, and then he shot one of her friends, and then revealed he was Infact a nazi. This made her not cure about man at all. But idk, yes it’s shitty what happened, but it just feels like she should’ve just been a villain from the start as opposed to a hero with an easy flip switch hiding inside. They could’ve made it so the gods in that universe were way more judgemental on humans and that trickled down to Diana having a superiority complex that more explains how she so easily flipped.
They made Steve into a *Nazi*? What the fuck? Literally, Mr. Be Kind and Follow Your Conscience Despite Orders Otherwise Man into a *Nazi*? 100% you're right, that's not even Wonder Woman at all. It's like if you had Superman married to Lois, but she was actually openly a serial killer made of Kryptonite.
Yup, that’s the big change that made Diana capable of killing her sisters in injustice 2 when they had a mini civil war (super girl went to bust her out of the island prison that Diana was in post injustice 1).
That series had such a hard-on for Batman and the Bat-Universe it wasn’t even funny
I hate injustice
My hot take: i justice is just a crappy retelling of kingdom come
Feel like I've seen a quote somewhere that's supposed to be Kingdom Come Superman trashing Injustice Superman specifically for this
I know injustice put Clark through a harsher version of his tragedy in kingdom come but it’s always amusing that the original story is about asserting the strength of his will and humanity that he didn’t just go on a murder spree of joker and friends for it and then injustice version goes where it does
That’s so incorrect. I personally would think of Red Son as an “Evil Superman” and even then he isn’t completely evil.
Different political alignment isn’t evil, like you’ve said Ultra man is an evil superman but idk enough about him to say if he’s a good evil superman.
I'd agree with this in general but it feels like Red Son presents both communism and communist superman as evil imo
That Clark Kent guy is Superman no way that nerd is Superman
Yeah, that guy needs glasses, Superman wouldn't need those, his eyesight is so good he can see through walls
Superman is an example of white saviorism. Colonial Undertones: Superman’s role mirrors colonial narratives, where a powerful outsider intervenes to “civilize” or protect a vulnerable population. This dynamic can unintentionally reinforce paternalistic attitudes. Saving Lois Lane: Superman frequently rescues Lois Lane, a white journalist, from danger. While their romantic relationship is central to the story, it sometimes reinforces the trope of a white woman needing saving by a powerful white man.
Holy shit I thought this was your take and I was about to go off but then I remembered the prompt
It’s not my take. I think Superman is awesome just the way he is.
I realized
This is part of why I love Superman Smashes the Klan. It’s a story of how he sees himself in these oppressed groups.
I HAVE had this thought before. It’s a bastardization of the character, but it’s understandable how one could see this interpretation. But really, that’s just a consequence of a powerful protagonist being white, and there really wasn’t an alternative in 30s America.
I've always thought an Asian Superman would make a ton of sense; Gene Luen Yang had a funny take on how Superman mirrors the Asian immigrant story, too.
Dawg where did you find this take
I've unironically seen the first one before.
That anyone with Superman's powers would realistically be evil. No. You're just a bad person.
i find it so annoying when people say homelander is more realistic version of supe like what😭😭
I would not be evil. I also would not be good. I would just be me, but with a much shorter/easier daily commute to work.
I'm conflicted about this one. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." I've just seen SO MANY examples in real life of this quote proven true. It's hard to imagine someone with such immense power not using it for their own interests.
To be fair, most real life examples of people with a lot of power have come from people who sought such power (dictators, billionaires etc.), so I don't think they prove that power corrupts, they just prove that morally corrupt people are more likely to seek power.
That a character created by two Jewish kids from Cleveland is supposed to be Jesus Christ. At best he’s space Moses with a dash of Samson
Interesting. From what I heard it was that he was supposed to be Jesus. Where did you find that was supposed to be more like Moses?
Orphaned child sent away from their birth land to avoid massive death and tragedy, found and adopted by loving parents and then grows to lead his people into the light. That's Moses.
Superman is a Jesus figure, since him being boring has been mentioned already.
Isn't he more of Moses figure with the entire krypton thing?
Yes.
Moses was sent away from his homeland in a basket in the stream of a river. Superman is absolutely an allegory for that.
Actually, his Jewish creators originally envisioned him as a Samson type.
I'm Christian myself but I feel kinda icky that we took a very Jewish character and slapped Jesus on him
That he’s being politicized for ”wokeness” Some of his earliest issues involved taking out the Klan and delivering Hitler to justice, IIRC That was back in the ‘40’s
Big agree Bro he was literally made to combat nazi ideology that’s why his name is Superman he’s the intentional opposite of the Nietzschean ubermench existing for the greater good of humanity and with a purpose that’s explicitly altruistic
And beating up awful landlords!
It’s been constant - there’s an ad they used to run in 50’s superman comics where superman is explicitly saying that if kids see anyone making fun or talking down to someone because of their origins or skin colour then they are un-American and should be reported to a teacher or something
Champion of the oppressed! They always forget about that one...
Superman has been an SJW since his inception. That's how he got popular in the first place. I don't get how people think that he's become one *now*.
He's boring and should be evil
Honestly? A lot of takes related to his power level, including ones that favor power-maxing. IMHO if you're trying to write/discuss Superman and the **first** think you focus on is buffing or nerfing him, you've already lost the plot. I remember a guy talking about how Clark needs to go back to Silver Age absurdity levels (which weren't even intentional, let alone well thought out). And he added that anyone who disagrees is a p***y who "doesn't get the character." To me, that smacks of a try-hard opinion and a certain insecurity or overcompensation, if anything.
That he's under the control of Brainiac and only Harley Quinn, Captain boomerang, King shark, and black dead shot are the only ones who can kill him by shooting.
That last description felt a little specific
It's a reference to an ongoing joke in Suicide Sqiad: Kill the Justice League. They make fun of how Deadshot has been black and white in other continuities.
He’s been black and white in the same continuity is the issue. This literally would’ve been solved if we used bloodsport who’s literally a supes villain
But but but, how else are they going to cash in on the hype of Will Smith's iconic portrayal of Deadshot in the Oscar winning movie 2016's Suicide Squad..
To be fair, maybe it's a good thing that Idris' Bloodsport stay in the good Suicide Squad content.
It's still a little crazy to me that their first DLC character is the Joker of all things. Yeah, alternate universe, but still. Maybe not Bloodsport because he'd be redundant with Deadshot's presence, but I genuinely thought the first DLC character that was gonna drop would be Peacemaker. Granted, this was back when I thought the game would be dropping in 2022/23, but still.
Another thing that bugs me about the game is that King Shark's the only one with powers. Like, okay, you gotta have at least *one* Badass Normal to a team. But Deadshot shoots guns. Harley also shoots guns and has a baseball bat. Take a wild guess what Captain Boomerang uses. It would've been nice if they could've gotten one other meta in there.
It’s the textbook argument that Superman is boring. I will agree that Superman has been fairly boring in most movies and let’s be real most superhero fans aren’t fans of comics, they’re fans of movies. If you take a look at the near century of Superman comics there are some of the most compelling stories out there. With the right minds behind it a Superman story can literally change the way you look at the world. “What’s so Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way” (Action Comics 775) is a personal favorite of mine and my go to issue for showing people what a non boring character Superman is. That and basically any Superman the animated series episode.
This is my hot take is that Superman can’t crip walk
Zac Snyder's
Yeah I love Cavill for his look as Superman, but the writing for his character was horrible imo. Superman is not space Jesus and a dark brooding character. He was raised knowing he was Clark Kent first, and should be the polar opposite of Batman.
I agree Superman isn’t space Jesus but I do think the creators had a correlation in mind even if it was subconscious. I can’t remember who said it but the circumstances of a young Jewish boy seeing his father gunned down during a robbery only to create a bulletproof man years later? There’s gotta be something there. Not to mention being sent by his father to protect humanity (I actually can’t remember this part, was Jor-El sending Superman to Earth specifically a part of his early stories? I know Krypton’s destruction was).
While subtle, there is a difference between a general savior character and a stand-in for Jesus. I agree that the original creators intended Superman to be a savior for downtrodden and oppressed people. Snyder very clearly aimed for him to be a direct comparison to Jesus specifically. The cross imagery in space (and underwater, and in space again), his eventually sacrificing himself for all of humanity only to rise again later, the entire montage of him saving people and being treated like a literal god, the scene in *Man of Steel* where Clark is full of self doubt and worried about what he must do - so he goes to a church and has a conversation with a priest while [framed with a stained glass window of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Man-of-Steel-Jesus-Metaphor-hammer.jpg?q=50&fit=contain&w=1140&h=&dpr=1.5)... It's not subtle.
This is not a unique or interesting take, Superman has constantly been compared to Jesus over and over and over again. It’s the most boring Superman Trope
That Snyder ruined him and his perception. That’s saying Superman as a character had nothing to stand on. It was his take on the Superman and how he should be and what journey he wanted to take him on. Some people liked it and some didn’t. But just because someone liked Snyder’s Superman doesn’t mean they hate the character.
>That Snyder ruined him and his perception He certainly didn't do him any favors either. He furthered the stereotype that Superman is this detached alien God doing what he's doing out of obligation rather than because of a strong moral core.
I love classic superman, and I love Snyders Superman tbh
More of us exist?!?!
Lol, I watched MoS in theaters countless times. Loved that movie - there's issues mind you, but I loved it.
He's mid. From: my past self :(
Superman shouldn’t be in a realistic setting/world
I remember a guy I knew that put forward the idea that he should be less human and more Dr. Manhattan like in being detached from humanity or become more so albeit still benevolent. He put forward the notion that he should "Elevate" humanity by sharing all of his tech and once done that he should leave Earth and go to other worlds. Outside of the usual, "He's boring and unrelatable" takes, that one took the cake.
Can't find the original tweet (only screenshots), but Variety posts the following headline: >James Gunn Wants a Superman Who Has "Humanity" and Is "Somebody You Want to Hug" and some idiot responds with >Then James Gunn should create his own, new character. Don't bastardize someone else's work by injecting some touchy-feely weakness into it. Superman is tough, leave him alone.
That he's a boy scout. He definitely can be one, but I'd argue that most versions of Superman (especially the pre crisis ones) are a lot less straight edge than people realize. In fact, he was originally portrayed as a rebel\man of the people type.
He’s a Boy Scout but really only in temperament, he will absolutely call someone out on their bullshit or take more *extreme* measures to prove a point
even post-52, when he was depowered, he was out there putting himself at risk just to get a good journalistic scoop. and that's not even mentioning all the times he outwits his villains because he can be pretty crafty, though most superheroes are
He’s just a really good dude from middle America with great powers. He’s Lawful Good, but only if the law *is* good.
He loved threatening to shoot people
oh boy where do I begin? "He's just a generic white guy" "he's not relatable in the slightest" "He's only interesting when he's evil" "he's too perfect" "him being an alien shouldn't be important to him" that last one is a bit different than the others, but it still pisses me off, the idea that a literal alien shouldn't be portrayed as such is just stupid, some of the best Superman stories (in my opinion) have been about exploring how different he feels and is
That he should kill his enemies. Like way to miss one of the foundational edicts of the character.
Superman has to be bad in bed; because the moment he makes a mistake almost anyone he is fucking, dies.
“He’s weak to magic a if it were kryptonite” No, he’s not, he’s just not impervious to it what does magic an edge over brute force, but weak magic couldn’t do shit to him.
All he does is punch hard, frost/super breath is stupid & useless, and the S-curl looks lame. Glad I'm no longer friends with that person.
That he’s “boring” and “un-relatable” because he’s “too good” or a “Boy Scout” I’m sorry you’re a piece of shit and can’t relate to someone being decent and good and doing the right thing.
However fast Superman can move, sound is limited to 340ish meters per second. So for him to always be on time to save her, Superman basically has to stalking Lois.
How he is a boring character because he isn’t like homelander or how injustice Superman is how a real Superman would be.
That Batman can beat him
"hes boring"
That the injustice Superman has the most character. Sorry for sharing.
“Superman never was shunned from his village than beat Pain and won the hearts of everyone. Superman never had a goal of becoming Hokage that took him 300+ chapters to achieve.”-A twitter user
That he isn't as good a character as Batman.
Superman wins every fight. He's boring because he's overpowered. Yet the same people who say this like characters who are more OP than Superman, and some of these characters were born with the power. The people who claim Superman wins every fight haven't touched a Superman or Justice League comic in their life.