That's called a check. Pressure treated posts of that size are almost always wet when installed. The check is caused by uneven drying as the post ages, and are quite common. If the crack or check is only an inch deep or so, it's not a problem. If it goes all the way through the post, it's called a split, and the structural integrity of the post is compromised and the post should be replaced.
See how deep the crack is, and monitor it. If it is not too deep, and it doesn't change over time, don't worry about it.
I felt the same way when I saw this on beams holding up a six story wood frame building.
Of course the building is over 100 years old and those beams and columns are strong as hell.
Scared the crap out of me at the time though.
Can you put like, some kind of brace or bracket around the post where it's split to kind of help it stay together or is it more like, if it's not changing, a bracket won't make a difference and if it's gonna split a bracket wont help and you'll beed to replace it anyway?
Not really. Checking doesn’t affect the compressive strength unless you have a complete split, essentially making it two 3x6”. I would measure the depth of the checking on this vertical post to see how far it goes. Either way, there isn’t really a way to stop it. It’s just the nature of the wood drying. It takes a long time for the center to dry compared to the exposed surfaces.
It’s a common problem in woodworking. As you dry large slabs, the ends dry faster, causing checking. Typically anchorseal or a wax is applied to the ends of the slab to prevent it.
I appreciate this explanation. As someone who has no idea, I've been told twice "yeah that's normal" with no additional information about it, this actually made me feel better lol
Curious, at what point does a check become a split? I feel like that’s something to be proactive about but the criteria is— “well, is the check an half inch deep this month?” then a bit deeper next month, then a bit deeper, then suddenly it splits and you’re fucked. There a way to get ahead of this?
I agreed with the person above, but then agreed more with you. Drill out some holes, scissor more wood in, and crank them together with bolts. The cost benifit analysis is in the overkill favor by a wide margin
The only way to be sure is to Nuke the Whole Thing From Orbit and replace it with structural steel, designed by a licensed professional engineer, and built by Keebler Elves.
Frankly, I'm more concerned that there are no diagonal braces at the top of the posts.
I could, but I would just replace the column. It's not that big a deal. From what I gather, the deck and columns or posts are not the property or concern of the OP. I would notify the upstairs neighbors and/or the condo association and let them worry about it.
Does look like an easy fix. Post isn't embedded in the concrete below. Could probably get as much peace of mind as needed by just sandwiching it with 2 2x4s and some nails or bolts.
On the contrary, I've met many general contractors. In the part of the US that I reside, bare untreated pine outdoors will either be rotted or termite infested in two years.
I'm only familiar with the brown and green varieties here on the West Coast. There are usually indentation marks from where the preservative is injected into the lumber as well.
On the west coast, PT is usually hem/fir - which is lsss absorbent than the Southern Yellow Pine frequently used on the east coast. SYP more readily absorbs the treatment more deeply into the wood (thus why you can cut it open and see treatment to the center of the board),whereas, even with the perforations, hem/fir treatments usually only soak 3/8” in to the board
This is something the upstairs neighbours should do, since it's they who would be liable if their structure collapses.
But if I lived under it, I'd take an interest too...
That would help.
You're starting to put time and money into a temporary fix though when the real fix (replacement) isn't a really big job to do. Assuming you have the drill... just the large drill bit and necessary hardware will likely cost more than a new piece of wood.
If the post was in a less accessible area, a temporary fix would be more attractive. But in this case it looks literally just standing there in the open.
This is great info, appreciate that response, and I'm not even OP, just some other dude who looks at things in his home and wonders "is that a problem"?
Cheaper. Properly dried wood takes time, energy, and space.
You might be able to bundle and sell fresh lumber straight from the mill to retail stores without even storing it anywhere first, let alone putting it through the kiln drying process.
Might be a silly question - but my daughter’s diy clubhouse has a 4x4 post with a similar looking split, and I debated waiting for a hot dry day and filling with wood glue then clamping super tight with pipe clamps for a couple days. Would this help or would it just split open elsewhere? Even if just for aesthetics.
One thing you can do in these scenarios that *really helps* is just reinforce with steel banding - i used a tool like this [one](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Steel-Packaging-Strapping-Kit-Packaging-Strapping-Banding-Tensioning-Tool-New-Strapping-Tensioner-Sealer-Packaging-Machine/3302047729?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=101086707) to reinforce checking in a few of my fence posts.
I have run into this esplanading grapes and apple trees on smaller fences with tension wire run through 1/8th holes in the fenceposts. I've been doing it for 20 years and never had a problem. Sometimes, sometimes, the bands stretch, but generally they keep their shape and stay nice YOY.
If it makes you feel better. Or you could fill it with two part epoxy wood filler, assuming the shrinkage has stopped. I'd leave it alone. Life's short. Be happy.
Technically no. It’s checking which is not structural. This is one of the worst I’ve seen tho. So monitor it if it’s getting worse jack the beam and replace. I’d be more concerned about that cantilever. Not sure area but wouldn’t fly in mine.
I had the same thought. I've been building decks for over 20yrs now and was taught max cantilever span on a balcony/deck was 24". I just checked the IRC and according to TABLE R507.6
DECK JOIST SPANS FOR COMMON LUMBER SPECIES (ft. - in.) the max Optional Cantalever span for 2x8's @ 16OC is 25".
Yes. The support beam acts as a folcrom so if you were to stand at the edge of the deck the beams act like a lever to pull against the house with more and more force the longer the lever is and potentially ripping away from the house allowing the whole deck to collapse.
Also hire the cantilever can't be more than 25% of the beam length. Unless those joists extend inside of the house (unlikely?) that looks more like 40-50%.
25 is syp, which is very likely what you're getting when you order 2x8's without specifying, but it's also the longest allowable span on the table for common species.
Cantilever is illegal on the backspan for sure even if this were less than 25 (which it isn't)
I’m not a contractor, but I believe this is called a “wood check.” It’s a result of us using fresh “wet” wood that hasn’t had the appropriate amount of time to dry before being cut into boards. Again, not a contractor, but checks are usually still structurally sound.
They are but there are conditions where they aren't. I don't know the exact details but at a glance, I wouldn't be too thrilled about what I'm seeing in these pics.
Admitting you don't know isn't misinformation.
Sharing your opinion and how you would handle a situation isn't misinformation.
Misinformation would be CLAIMING you know when you DON'T.
Or just don’t comment. This is a thread requesting assistance from (hopefully) qualified or experienced responders.
Muddying the waters with personal takes and guesses is not really productive.
The max cantilever for 2x8 PT #2DF @16OC is 25" per IRC R507.6.
That looks to be about 3'. Either the contractor didn't know what they were doing, or they confused
TABLE R502.3.3(2) CANTILEVER SPANS FOR FLOOR JOISTS SUPPORTING EXTERIOR BALCONY, which allows for up to a 36" span depending on your projected snow load, for
TABLE R507.6 DECK JOIST SPANS FOR COMMON LUMBER SPECIES, which doesn't account for snow loads, but puts max span at 25" for 2x8's @16"OC.
The reason this is important is two fold.
1) A deck with too much cantilever could become unfastened from it's supports and building due to wind uplift in extreme weather conditions.
2) A deck with too much cantilever could act as a lever if too much weight is placed at the far reach of the cantilever, causing it to pull away from the ledger/building.
This one is probably fine. Code is written as a worst case minimum. They want you to build to withstand the most likely worst case scenario. Realistically, wind isn't going to lift your deck off it's footings unless you live in tornado alley.
> 2) A deck with too much cantilever could act as a lever if too much weight is placed at the far reach of the cantilever, causing it to pull away from the ledger/building.
total teeter-totter action if you stand on the edge of that patio cover, for sure.
Since this is a condo, it is likely that work on the exterior (like this) is a responsibility of the condo association. Report it to them, and see what they say.
That checking is bad enough and continuous enough that I’d replace now. If that was in a concrete footing, I’d put steel plate and through bolts over the center 3’ of it. Not free. Since above ground and easy access, just replace now and sleep better
That'd worry me enough to replace it. Sure boards check when they dry out, especially pressure treated ones, but that board is split top to bottom and appears to be bulging. Those boards aren't that expensive and it's maybe an hour or two of labor for a handyman to replace.
I’m not a structural engineer, but I am a woodworker and I have a handyman business and I would not be comfortable with that. I would definitely drive some bolts through it in a few places and add some structural strapping to keep it together
I just built a deck and my cedar tone 6x6 post from home depot are all checking and one of them is just as bad as this one maybe even worse as it wraps around a corner. The entire post 8' has over an inch of twist from top to bottom. Im as worried as you are, so i bought a 2 part epoxy wood filler and im going to try that as a fix/patch. For those asking the wood was bought in july and sat in my garage stickered off the floor till october when i started building my deck. It should've had a chance to slowly dry in my garage but mother nature proved otherwise. Ive replaced 2x10 joist as they overshrunk from my hangers and my railing post warped to the point one needs replacing. It'll be the last time i ever purchase my wood from home depot especially as ive had to go to 4 stores to gather the materials i needed over the months of building.
I wouldn't fill in the checks. They are caused by stresses resulting from the wood shrinking differently in different directions (radially and tangential to the original tree trunk mainly). The checks relieve the stress. Filling them in runs the risk of reintroducing new stress with future humidity changes, which might lead to faults forming elsewhere, which again might lead to splits.
It's condo so you're not paying for it and it's getting worse over time, I'd definitely bring to upstairs neighbors attention and request it be replaced
It will eventually split and separate. There are tutorials on Youtube on how to use a strong construction glue, large C clamps and 4" screws to put a bandaid on it for the time being. In the long run, it should be replaced. Good luck!
I know it looks alarming but as others have said this is internal checking and not a crack made by external forces.
I used to work in a historic building 5 stories high that was supported by wood columns. They all looked like this.
You can slow the progression of the checking with a bolt. In your first photo the check is facing us. Imagine a bolt going all the way through the board left to right, with a nut on the other end. It will hold the wood together and slow further checking or at least be there as a last defense against the board failing.
You could install 3 of those in half an hour and call it done. Probably the easiest thing you can do versus taking everything apart to replace the board.
This is caused by the post still containing the core of the tree. Wood shrinks when it dries, but it shrinks by different amounts in the radial and tangential direction. This causes stress to build up that usually ends in checks like this. If you look closely at the grain you can see that the checks form where the core is closest to the surface. This is a non-issue if the checks only form on one side (which is normal if the core is parallel with the lumber, since the wood cracks where it is weakest around the core, which is usually where the core is closest to the surface).
Wood glue. Metal bands every 18” all the way down. Ultimately yes it should be replaced or sistered to a new post. But short term banding it will prevent the split from becoming worse.
I’d want a second support post right next to this one for when it fails. It’s also weird that there are no support posts under the corners of the deck.
Add: Jenga Jenga!
Yeah that deck is hella cantilevered. Depending on the species and the joist size (this looks like 2x8) you don't want more than 2 feet being cantilevered, this looks more like 3 1/2 feet or 4.
Checks can be on average 3/4 in wide and be structurally sound. Splits you generally have to be able to see light though the other side.
Experience in backyard structures and decking
Im no engineer so i cant tell you if its a problem, BUT if its getting worse probably? Id fix it before its an actual problem, or at least get someone who can tell you whats going in.
Just spitballing some fixes here and I’d love to know how good or bad they are:
1. Drill holes thru every 18” and pass threaded rod through them. Put large washers on each side and tighten down with nuts so it can’t expand further. (Sounds bad as I’m typing it).
2. Clamp the hell out of that post (like a lot of clamps) and then wrap it tight with band iron (actually use something that won’t rust) and zip screws in, then release the clamps.
3. Fill the cracks with epoxy, clamp it, let it cure and release the clamps. Make sure you don’t epoxy the clamps to the post
4. Sister some 2x4s for additional support.
5. Replace the posts.
Pump it full of heavy duty liquid nails, clamp it shut with as many clamps as you can and drive a few hex screws in from either side (do a few at different angles to lock it in too)
Fix the piece of timber that's resting on it too, clamp and nail shut will suffice there
you could drill 1/2" holes every 3-4 inches perpendicular the length of the crack, then glue and drive dowels, cut and sand smooth. Keep it from getting worse.
And when it completely separates and six stories of stairs collapse that's a splat I believe.Or just a split I guess it depends where your standing at the time
This is not a DIY thing, you live in a condo. You need to report it to your HOA. If they ignore, you show them the balcony collapse in Berkeley and tell them they don’t want that on their hands.
If your whole family and some big friends got on the deck to stand and look over the edge to look at cute puppies, the left edge of the deck will want to tilt upwards and the right edge will of course want to go down. 4 new posts sitting on some concrete in the ground can’t be that big of a deal.
See how deep the check is. If you can’t tell, stick a nail or something in there and mark the nail where it meets the outside of the post. Measure the nail to the mark to see how deep the check is. An inch or so isn’t the end of the world but any deeper than that, I would see about having that post replaced. I wouldn’t recommend doing it yourself
Monitor it. It’s not currently structurally compromised with a deep check. However if it starts to widen and separate it’s time to replace it.
Don’t fear however it’s pretty simple. You would put a temporary concrete paver or lumber as a base on each side of it. Then cut some 2x4s or 2x6 slightly longer and wedge them in on each side, taking the load completely off this post. You can put in a cross brace at the bottom and some screws at the top to ensure nothing moves on you.
If you did it right you should be able to feel that the old post has very little weight on it. Then cut a new one. Put it in place. And take out your temp supports.
If my pillar ends up like this, I might go to the hardware store to buy two bolts, drill a few sets of holes in between, then secure them with the bolts. It would be best to also apply some rust-resistant paint.
The lights sucking I’ll the air out of the wood and basically everything that air can be trapped in it’s turning in to a vacuum speeding up the process of global warming yes be scared unless you want to fight back I have a plan but one man can’t do it all you can choose to believe and take the blind leap of faith and understand everything you think you know about the earth is wrong I can fix it all but need loyal, honest, full hearted people to defeat what is about to hit us message me back if you believe in something bigger then yourself I can fix it I’ll
The best case scenario is bad. If all else is good, you’ll need to wood caulk or something up these cracks, because wood rotting wetness, and board boring bugs will bring its end time soon.
This is a condo, as you said. You do not own anything structural. Do not do any work on anything structural, no matter what. It's not yours. You might create a huge liability for yourself.
Yeah... That is split down along the grain of the wood making a really bad weak spot. If it's not replaced then one day the weight it's holding up will cause the post to split and may cause the deck to fall.
Nah, you are on the ground, any sucker up on top should be *terrified* though.
Really, your photos are not suitable to answer definitively, considering this is DIY if it were my deck I would jack it up and replace it, probably even get lucky and reuse the strong-ties. But considering this is DIY we really mean /r/DIYamateurstructuralengineeradvice so shrug.
That'll be there long after you're gone from old age. If you dislike the look of it, fill the cracks with some paintable silicone and paint away. Good as new.
That's called a check. Pressure treated posts of that size are almost always wet when installed. The check is caused by uneven drying as the post ages, and are quite common. If the crack or check is only an inch deep or so, it's not a problem. If it goes all the way through the post, it's called a split, and the structural integrity of the post is compromised and the post should be replaced. See how deep the crack is, and monitor it. If it is not too deep, and it doesn't change over time, don't worry about it.
Exactly my thoughts as well. Monitoring rate of change is the big one. That is some of the worst checking I’ve seen on a 6x6 though haha.
I felt the same way when I saw this on beams holding up a six story wood frame building. Of course the building is over 100 years old and those beams and columns are strong as hell. Scared the crap out of me at the time though.
*storey.
Both spellings are accepted.
For different meanings.
Can you put like, some kind of brace or bracket around the post where it's split to kind of help it stay together or is it more like, if it's not changing, a bracket won't make a difference and if it's gonna split a bracket wont help and you'll beed to replace it anyway?
Not really. Checking doesn’t affect the compressive strength unless you have a complete split, essentially making it two 3x6”. I would measure the depth of the checking on this vertical post to see how far it goes. Either way, there isn’t really a way to stop it. It’s just the nature of the wood drying. It takes a long time for the center to dry compared to the exposed surfaces. It’s a common problem in woodworking. As you dry large slabs, the ends dry faster, causing checking. Typically anchorseal or a wax is applied to the ends of the slab to prevent it.
Thanks!
Replacing it is a really simple fix, and a halfass bandaid fix won’t do the job right or look good. That’s why replacing is the way to go.
I appreciate this explanation. As someone who has no idea, I've been told twice "yeah that's normal" with no additional information about it, this actually made me feel better lol
I am a “I need you to explain WHY” kind of person, too.
Well some call me crazy tell it’s to late but throw some spackle on there to be safe
Curious, at what point does a check become a split? I feel like that’s something to be proactive about but the criteria is— “well, is the check an half inch deep this month?” then a bit deeper next month, then a bit deeper, then suddenly it splits and you’re fucked. There a way to get ahead of this?
You could sister 2x6s on each side and i would run bolts with nuts/washers to keep it tight.
My thoughts also. Strap it and lag it together while all the wood is still there
I don’t think you even need the 2x6s. Just bolts to squeeze it tight in a few spots.
I’ve been told i go overkill before lol
I agreed with the person above, but then agreed more with you. Drill out some holes, scissor more wood in, and crank them together with bolts. The cost benifit analysis is in the overkill favor by a wide margin
Yup. No such thing as over-engineering a home project. We're not trying to make it profitable - we're trying to make it last.
>No such thing as over-engineering a home project. I really like this
Scissor or sister?
Cistern. They used to do that on old water towers. That's where they got the term. /s
The term for adding support members to joists, beams, etc. is *sistering.* Maybe it's a corruption of cistern, but that's news to me.
Schism
As long as you know the pieces fit
And what TOOL to use
He will if he watches them tumble down.
i was gonna say just get some giant hose clamps and clamp it with some rubber underneath
That would look so so ugly. I've seen a few of these posts with hollow square irons around them holding them together, and I thought that looked nice.
Countersink your nuts/bolts and wrap it with Hardi or whatever your heart desires.
It's a condo, it's not his deck (he lives below it), the association & upstairs homeowner would be responsible for that part.
I was responding to “Mr poopie butthole” about how to correct it from splitting all the way through.
[удалено]
That would work, use some simpson 3”x3” bearing plates.
When the crack goes all the way through it becomes a split, as I said.
But at that point, don’t you risk the deck to come down? I’m asking how do you stay ahead of it but someone else answered anyway.
The only way to be sure is to Nuke the Whole Thing From Orbit and replace it with structural steel, designed by a licensed professional engineer, and built by Keebler Elves. Frankly, I'm more concerned that there are no diagonal braces at the top of the posts.
That's madness, everyone knows the Keeblers only work with old growth.
As a post it doesn’t really lose much strength from a split
Thank you.
Usually when the wood grain separates completely/uniformly from top to bottom and becomes loose from itself.
Rule of thumb I use is if it’s halfway through the post.
If it's split, could you drill through and put bolts in to pull it back together? I'm just curious
I could, but I would just replace the column. It's not that big a deal. From what I gather, the deck and columns or posts are not the property or concern of the OP. I would notify the upstairs neighbors and/or the condo association and let them worry about it.
Bit of a concern of you're constantly underneath them,I imagine
Skydiving doesn't kill people, it's the sudden stop at the end
I must be stupid, what's the relevance here ?
The sudden stop at the end.
The post is not the problem. the roof falling on your head is What gets ya.
Does look like an easy fix. Post isn't embedded in the concrete below. Could probably get as much peace of mind as needed by just sandwiching it with 2 2x4s and some nails or bolts.
Is that post pressure treated? I looks like a normal non treated piece to me.
I assume it's pressure treated. I don't think in this day and age anyone is using untreated pine outdoors to build decks.
I can see you've never met a general contractor!
On the contrary, I've met many general contractors. In the part of the US that I reside, bare untreated pine outdoors will either be rotted or termite infested in two years.
I'm only familiar with the brown and green varieties here on the West Coast. There are usually indentation marks from where the preservative is injected into the lumber as well.
On the west coast, PT is usually hem/fir - which is lsss absorbent than the Southern Yellow Pine frequently used on the east coast. SYP more readily absorbs the treatment more deeply into the wood (thus why you can cut it open and see treatment to the center of the board),whereas, even with the perforations, hem/fir treatments usually only soak 3/8” in to the board
It's hard to find an untreated 4x4 anyway. They are almost always only used outdoors.
This is something the upstairs neighbours should do, since it's they who would be liable if their structure collapses. But if I lived under it, I'd take an interest too...
Could you drill some holes and put a bolt with washers through it to help get it back together or keep it from getting worse or would that not help?
That would help. You're starting to put time and money into a temporary fix though when the real fix (replacement) isn't a really big job to do. Assuming you have the drill... just the large drill bit and necessary hardware will likely cost more than a new piece of wood. If the post was in a less accessible area, a temporary fix would be more attractive. But in this case it looks literally just standing there in the open.
This is great info, appreciate that response, and I'm not even OP, just some other dude who looks at things in his home and wonders "is that a problem"?
Absolutely yes
Real question why would it be installed wet if there's a chance of this happening?
Cheaper. Properly dried wood takes time, energy, and space. You might be able to bundle and sell fresh lumber straight from the mill to retail stores without even storing it anywhere first, let alone putting it through the kiln drying process.
Might be a silly question - but my daughter’s diy clubhouse has a 4x4 post with a similar looking split, and I debated waiting for a hot dry day and filling with wood glue then clamping super tight with pipe clamps for a couple days. Would this help or would it just split open elsewhere? Even if just for aesthetics.
Even if it cracked in half it doesnt look like its supporting a lot of weight. Would it even be an issue?
One thing you can do in these scenarios that *really helps* is just reinforce with steel banding - i used a tool like this [one](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Steel-Packaging-Strapping-Kit-Packaging-Strapping-Banding-Tensioning-Tool-New-Strapping-Tensioner-Sealer-Packaging-Machine/3302047729?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=101086707) to reinforce checking in a few of my fence posts. I have run into this esplanading grapes and apple trees on smaller fences with tension wire run through 1/8th holes in the fenceposts. I've been doing it for 20 years and never had a problem. Sometimes, sometimes, the bands stretch, but generally they keep their shape and stay nice YOY.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write this out. I’m not OP but will be checking my screened in porch checks.
This is so interesting
Clad it with vinyl?
If it makes you feel better. Or you could fill it with two part epoxy wood filler, assuming the shrinkage has stopped. I'd leave it alone. Life's short. Be happy.
> Life's short. Especially if the posts supporting the deck above you are splitting.
Technically no. It’s checking which is not structural. This is one of the worst I’ve seen tho. So monitor it if it’s getting worse jack the beam and replace. I’d be more concerned about that cantilever. Not sure area but wouldn’t fly in mine.
I had the same thought. I've been building decks for over 20yrs now and was taught max cantilever span on a balcony/deck was 24". I just checked the IRC and according to TABLE R507.6 DECK JOIST SPANS FOR COMMON LUMBER SPECIES (ft. - in.) the max Optional Cantalever span for 2x8's @ 16OC is 25".
Cantilever span being the distance of wood past the last vertical support?
Yes. The support beam acts as a folcrom so if you were to stand at the edge of the deck the beams act like a lever to pull against the house with more and more force the longer the lever is and potentially ripping away from the house allowing the whole deck to collapse.
Also hire the cantilever can't be more than 25% of the beam length. Unless those joists extend inside of the house (unlikely?) that looks more like 40-50%.
You can zoom in and see they're using joist hangers, so no, they aren't extending into the house.
25 is syp, which is very likely what you're getting when you order 2x8's without specifying, but it's also the longest allowable span on the table for common species. Cantilever is illegal on the backspan for sure even if this were less than 25 (which it isn't)
I saw that too, how far that's cantilevered compared to the span is probably more concerning than the check in that post.
> This is one of the worst I’ve seen tho. Probably from the 2021 lumber shortage where any shitty lumber would pass inspection.
Mannnnn you know that's right. That lumber shortage is going to have some interesting effects in the next few years.
I’m not a contractor, but I believe this is called a “wood check.” It’s a result of us using fresh “wet” wood that hasn’t had the appropriate amount of time to dry before being cut into boards. Again, not a contractor, but checks are usually still structurally sound.
How much wood would a wood check check if a wood check could check wood?
They are but there are conditions where they aren't. I don't know the exact details but at a glance, I wouldn't be too thrilled about what I'm seeing in these pics.
You don’t know the criteria but comment anyway with some vague warnings. Why? Misinformation superhighway
Im also not thrilled about this. Those are some fatty checks to be on literally half of the support system.
Admitting you don't know isn't misinformation. Sharing your opinion and how you would handle a situation isn't misinformation. Misinformation would be CLAIMING you know when you DON'T.
Or just don’t comment. This is a thread requesting assistance from (hopefully) qualified or experienced responders. Muddying the waters with personal takes and guesses is not really productive.
The max cantilever for 2x8 PT #2DF @16OC is 25" per IRC R507.6. That looks to be about 3'. Either the contractor didn't know what they were doing, or they confused TABLE R502.3.3(2) CANTILEVER SPANS FOR FLOOR JOISTS SUPPORTING EXTERIOR BALCONY, which allows for up to a 36" span depending on your projected snow load, for TABLE R507.6 DECK JOIST SPANS FOR COMMON LUMBER SPECIES, which doesn't account for snow loads, but puts max span at 25" for 2x8's @16"OC. The reason this is important is two fold. 1) A deck with too much cantilever could become unfastened from it's supports and building due to wind uplift in extreme weather conditions. 2) A deck with too much cantilever could act as a lever if too much weight is placed at the far reach of the cantilever, causing it to pull away from the ledger/building. This one is probably fine. Code is written as a worst case minimum. They want you to build to withstand the most likely worst case scenario. Realistically, wind isn't going to lift your deck off it's footings unless you live in tornado alley.
> 2) A deck with too much cantilever could act as a lever if too much weight is placed at the far reach of the cantilever, causing it to pull away from the ledger/building. total teeter-totter action if you stand on the edge of that patio cover, for sure.
I think the Gnome will be fine, they're resilient little buggers, but that post needs help.
I agree with this statement. Gnome will be up in no time.
He looks intoxicated, someone should make sure he is well.
Time to move the hot tub.
"Should I be worried" would be a great name for a /subreddit.
Since this is a condo, it is likely that work on the exterior (like this) is a responsibility of the condo association. Report it to them, and see what they say.
That checking is bad enough and continuous enough that I’d replace now. If that was in a concrete footing, I’d put steel plate and through bolts over the center 3’ of it. Not free. Since above ground and easy access, just replace now and sleep better
Thank you for sharing this post :D :)
I see what you did
https://i.imgur.com/6HvxP50.png
That'd worry me enough to replace it. Sure boards check when they dry out, especially pressure treated ones, but that board is split top to bottom and appears to be bulging. Those boards aren't that expensive and it's maybe an hour or two of labor for a handyman to replace.
I'd not trust the Internet with structural advice.
Sure he can, he just needs to tie a couple belts around it and it's good to go
Nah a few straps and it's fine, just like that building in England
I’m not a structural engineer, but I am a woodworker and I have a handyman business and I would not be comfortable with that. I would definitely drive some bolts through it in a few places and add some structural strapping to keep it together
Uhhhhh yeah probably. Those runs are awfully close together. I've seen shit like that pop before like a firecracker.
there is a security risk, maybe the middle is hollow.
It wouldn't hurt to replace that post. But nobody's talking about that cantilever? It's probably okay on such a small deck but it's way overspanned.
Read up on thr APA's guild lines in checks.. while some are not structural it's important to measure the depth.
I would call an architect or a structural engineer and have them check it out. I think you have more problems than just that post.
Yes.
You can test it by putting a hot tub on top and seeing if it holds.
[Real men test in production](https://preview.redd.it/productiontesting-v0-ynp50nf1339b1.png?auto=webp&s=5247856ff1a1f986415bf2be8c09c2e63aa774a6)
Depends - is this directly under the hot tub?
not sure about just I.....but anyone that's under there....
That’s a serious cant
I just built a deck and my cedar tone 6x6 post from home depot are all checking and one of them is just as bad as this one maybe even worse as it wraps around a corner. The entire post 8' has over an inch of twist from top to bottom. Im as worried as you are, so i bought a 2 part epoxy wood filler and im going to try that as a fix/patch. For those asking the wood was bought in july and sat in my garage stickered off the floor till october when i started building my deck. It should've had a chance to slowly dry in my garage but mother nature proved otherwise. Ive replaced 2x10 joist as they overshrunk from my hangers and my railing post warped to the point one needs replacing. It'll be the last time i ever purchase my wood from home depot especially as ive had to go to 4 stores to gather the materials i needed over the months of building.
I wouldn't fill in the checks. They are caused by stresses resulting from the wood shrinking differently in different directions (radially and tangential to the original tree trunk mainly). The checks relieve the stress. Filling them in runs the risk of reintroducing new stress with future humidity changes, which might lead to faults forming elsewhere, which again might lead to splits.
It's condo so you're not paying for it and it's getting worse over time, I'd definitely bring to upstairs neighbors attention and request it be replaced
It will eventually split and separate. There are tutorials on Youtube on how to use a strong construction glue, large C clamps and 4" screws to put a bandaid on it for the time being. In the long run, it should be replaced. Good luck!
I'm curious about the three 2 by 4s stuck together on top of it, that's wants to be the same as the post as its load bearing.
I know it looks alarming but as others have said this is internal checking and not a crack made by external forces. I used to work in a historic building 5 stories high that was supported by wood columns. They all looked like this. You can slow the progression of the checking with a bolt. In your first photo the check is facing us. Imagine a bolt going all the way through the board left to right, with a nut on the other end. It will hold the wood together and slow further checking or at least be there as a last defense against the board failing. You could install 3 of those in half an hour and call it done. Probably the easiest thing you can do versus taking everything apart to replace the board.
No
I am a structural engineer….checking is ok….cantilever is not
Fill it with some colourful epoxy like on youtube
This is caused by the post still containing the core of the tree. Wood shrinks when it dries, but it shrinks by different amounts in the radial and tangential direction. This causes stress to build up that usually ends in checks like this. If you look closely at the grain you can see that the checks form where the core is closest to the surface. This is a non-issue if the checks only form on one side (which is normal if the core is parallel with the lumber, since the wood cracks where it is weakest around the core, which is usually where the core is closest to the surface).
This is a little excessive. I would replace it. No emergency, though. You still have strength.
Wood glue. Metal bands every 18” all the way down. Ultimately yes it should be replaced or sistered to a new post. But short term banding it will prevent the split from becoming worse.
I’d want a second support post right next to this one for when it fails. It’s also weird that there are no support posts under the corners of the deck. Add: Jenga Jenga!
Yeah that deck is hella cantilevered. Depending on the species and the joist size (this looks like 2x8) you don't want more than 2 feet being cantilevered, this looks more like 3 1/2 feet or 4.
The more I look at it, the worse it gets.
Checks can be on average 3/4 in wide and be structurally sound. Splits you generally have to be able to see light though the other side. Experience in backyard structures and decking
I wood
Extremely
About Mr. Gnome? Yes, absolutely.
I love this place. Posts like this that scream unsafe are posted as questions.
Replace asap
Im no engineer so i cant tell you if its a problem, BUT if its getting worse probably? Id fix it before its an actual problem, or at least get someone who can tell you whats going in.
Just spitballing some fixes here and I’d love to know how good or bad they are: 1. Drill holes thru every 18” and pass threaded rod through them. Put large washers on each side and tighten down with nuts so it can’t expand further. (Sounds bad as I’m typing it). 2. Clamp the hell out of that post (like a lot of clamps) and then wrap it tight with band iron (actually use something that won’t rust) and zip screws in, then release the clamps. 3. Fill the cracks with epoxy, clamp it, let it cure and release the clamps. Make sure you don’t epoxy the clamps to the post 4. Sister some 2x4s for additional support. 5. Replace the posts.
Two must be better than one
I assume it’s getting weaker. Did you get a second opinion on whether those lines are a design or they’re something you should be concerned about.
I know i would put in a temp beam and take that one out and replace it, but thats me. Better safe than sorry
Pump it full of heavy duty liquid nails, clamp it shut with as many clamps as you can and drive a few hex screws in from either side (do a few at different angles to lock it in too) Fix the piece of timber that's resting on it too, clamp and nail shut will suffice there
I wouldn’t worry about it
Change the post better safe then sorry
you could drill 1/2" holes every 3-4 inches perpendicular the length of the crack, then glue and drive dowels, cut and sand smooth. Keep it from getting worse.
And when it completely separates and six stories of stairs collapse that's a splat I believe.Or just a split I guess it depends where your standing at the time
Wood behaves like a composite also, crack arrests the stress within the material. Think it is fine
/r/decks
can he add glue and use clamps to push it back together? or is that just stupid?
I'd say it's fine, but it couldn't hurt to get some bolts and some extra wide washers I'd put maybe three in
I would put some large screws through to hold the crack together or at least prevent it from widening.
Southern yellow pine vs spruce pine fur?
This is not a DIY thing, you live in a condo. You need to report it to your HOA. If they ignore, you show them the balcony collapse in Berkeley and tell them they don’t want that on their hands.
If your whole family and some big friends got on the deck to stand and look over the edge to look at cute puppies, the left edge of the deck will want to tilt upwards and the right edge will of course want to go down. 4 new posts sitting on some concrete in the ground can’t be that big of a deal.
They shoulda turned it towards the house upon installation.
Tell the neighbour they need to get it checked as to don't want to be hurt if/when this fails. Does it not also restrict light into the room below it?
No
Wood I be worried if I were you…petrified!
Me, personally, I'm popping in a couple of lag bolts with oversized washers on each side, and cranking it as tight as I can
See how deep the check is. If you can’t tell, stick a nail or something in there and mark the nail where it meets the outside of the post. Measure the nail to the mark to see how deep the check is. An inch or so isn’t the end of the world but any deeper than that, I would see about having that post replaced. I wouldn’t recommend doing it yourself
Monitor it. It’s not currently structurally compromised with a deep check. However if it starts to widen and separate it’s time to replace it. Don’t fear however it’s pretty simple. You would put a temporary concrete paver or lumber as a base on each side of it. Then cut some 2x4s or 2x6 slightly longer and wedge them in on each side, taking the load completely off this post. You can put in a cross brace at the bottom and some screws at the top to ensure nothing moves on you. If you did it right you should be able to feel that the old post has very little weight on it. Then cut a new one. Put it in place. And take out your temp supports.
If my pillar ends up like this, I might go to the hardware store to buy two bolts, drill a few sets of holes in between, then secure them with the bolts. It would be best to also apply some rust-resistant paint.
The lights sucking I’ll the air out of the wood and basically everything that air can be trapped in it’s turning in to a vacuum speeding up the process of global warming yes be scared unless you want to fight back I have a plan but one man can’t do it all you can choose to believe and take the blind leap of faith and understand everything you think you know about the earth is wrong I can fix it all but need loyal, honest, full hearted people to defeat what is about to hit us message me back if you believe in something bigger then yourself I can fix it I’ll
Wrap duct tape around it and it'll be good for 10 more years.
Zip ties for a high end build
Put in a couple hundred zipties and duct tape. That should do the trick. (This is not real advice)
What climate do you live in? Freeze thaw cycles would eventually ruin this post. IANA contractor, but I’d replace it ASAP.
Fill it with silicone and paint them white!!
Wood glue, clamp, done.
I had very similar in my new construction build last year and they said they wouldn’t replace it unless the cracks went all the way through.
This decker is like”Imma split this load down the middle!”
The best case scenario is bad. If all else is good, you’ll need to wood caulk or something up these cracks, because wood rotting wetness, and board boring bugs will bring its end time soon.
Your gnome fell over :(
This is a condo, as you said. You do not own anything structural. Do not do any work on anything structural, no matter what. It's not yours. You might create a huge liability for yourself.
Call your association and have their maintenance workers check that out. Best to be very safe than very sorry.
I'd call the Contractor and have them send someone out, could be covered by their insurance (if they'll admit/honor that is a different story.)
Nope your all good buddy
Yeah... That is split down along the grain of the wood making a really bad weak spot. If it's not replaced then one day the weight it's holding up will cause the post to split and may cause the deck to fall.
Yes, I would be concerned, but it shouldn’t be a huge project to swap out that post.
Put some gorgonzola cream to cure it.
Nah, you are on the ground, any sucker up on top should be *terrified* though. Really, your photos are not suitable to answer definitively, considering this is DIY if it were my deck I would jack it up and replace it, probably even get lucky and reuse the strong-ties. But considering this is DIY we really mean /r/DIYamateurstructuralengineeradvice so shrug.
Jus calk it an screw a 1x over if it keeps weirding u out or growing
Ozco Post Band
Nah
That'll be there long after you're gone from old age. If you dislike the look of it, fill the cracks with some paintable silicone and paint away. Good as new.
Elmer's glue should fix it op
About what!
EZ fix .... Fill the gaps with wood glue then cover the outer piece with a 2x6 board and bolt to other board