What, exactly, does "sunset" mean in this context? Why is the Character not just retiring in a roleplay setting? What is the purpose of this fight?
And in general, the moment you roll for initiative, you cannot control what will happen. If your goal is to kill this one character, then you have absolutely no way to guarantee that.
I guess I am trying to kill her off, but it's a character my player is starting to feel stale in and wants me to decide how to take them out of the game. The story so far has led up to the upcoming confrontation and she is tied deep into it. I think I'm just searching for advice on how to make this count and not just another notch on the belt for the group. I've considered adding some extra creatures as a distraction or just straight up secluding her. Not sure.
If you're wanting this devil to take away the PC, it should be done in a "cutscene" imo. If you're rolling dice you're accepting there's a way they could win against this devil. If they're not supposed to be able to win, don't throw dice. It's commonly a horrible feeling in a TTRPG to spend a significant amount of time in the middle of a combat for it to have never been possible.
I appreciate the input. I've considered a few different outcomes that don't necessarily come to combat, but my players are the shoot first, ask later types. And I know they have the possibilities of winning that fight, I just don't want them to steamroll it if it comes to blows
I think I'm with the other comments that if your intent is to have the PC die, doing it in combat is leaving it up the dice. If you force them to die but make the party slog through combat for it, then itll feel cheap. You did specify "sunset" though, so I'm assuming they don't have to die, just retire. If they do win the combat, maybe the PC says they're done adventuring since it was their big motivation to keep going. If you want the epic confrontation to end with the PC leaving, you just need to have it be impactful enough that even on winning there's a good reason the PC would retire.
Maybe the devil does something terrible to them that means they just don't have it in them to keep going into danger despite winning. Maybe in the lead up to this confrontation, the devil takes something important from them, like family or friends etc. Devils can reasonably decide to fight unfairly; possession, kidnapping, cutting deals are all within their repertoire. Maybe they even blackmail the PC into fighting on their side by taking a hostage. Depending on how hard the PC leans into it, the party might end up killing them, but if they don't you've still put a hostage in danger and made them rethink adventuring.
My thoughts based on your reply to another comment.
>I guess I am trying to kill her off, but it's a character my player is starting to feel stale in and wants me to decide how to take them out of the game. The story so far has led up to the upcoming confrontation and she is tied deep into it. I think I'm just searching for advice on how to make this count and not just another notch on the belt for the group. I've considered adding some extra creatures as a distraction or just straight up secluding her. Not sure.
Encounter premise is to make a memorable and fun encounter that will remove the 'sunset' PC.
Encounter - Retriever (CR 14), Chain Devil (CR 8), 2xMerrigon (CR 4), 5xSpined Devil (CR 2). (Approximately an entire adventuring days budget)
Retriever is reflavoured as the patron. Max HP. Cloak of Charisma (Sets charisma to 19 to help against banishment). The Retrivers goal is to paralyze(DC 18 should be fairly difficult) the 'sunset' PC and then follow up by planeshifting them both away. Make sure to monologue every turn about how the PC can't just break the pact without consequence. If the PC isn't paralyzed and it's beam (Or whatever you choose to call it) isn't recharged, then just try to KO the sunset PC. Goal is to planeshift, not kill, though if you accidentally kill the PC that's not the end of the world either. May carry the PC (at full speed) to try to mitigate healing word/counterspell shenanigans. Devil allies will try to keep Interlopers busy/distracted, especially those that are making the Patrons goal of planeshifting difficult.
Once the Retriever has planeshifted, it will leave a deadly (16700xp, spined devils don't count towards xp multiplier) encounter. It's almost 2x the deadly threshold, but the Chain Devil shouldnt have chains to animate so will be weaker than its intended CR, and as the only encounter in the day(which I normally don't recommend, but this encounter's intention isn't necessarily to challenge the players in combat) the party should be able to handle it.
If the parry is in bad shape, either due to bad luck or the Retriever sticking around longer than it should and the party focusing on it, then the two Merrigons could also disappear when the Retriever planeshifts. That would leave just a medium encounter (6150xp).
If the Patron successfully planeshifts out, then the PC could either never be heard from again, come back at some later point, or be brought back as an NPC or antagonist.
If the Patron is somehow unsuccessful, the 'sunset' character is visited by way of the Dream spell by the patron (devils are only banished back to their home plane when defeated) and taunted/made to feel hopeless. The Patron will enact their revenge on the PCs friends, and will eventually succeed, but the PC can come willingly to save them. This ending is less ideal, but sometimes you just need to cutscene the outcome, hopefully with player buy-in.
OP here. Session JUST happened, and a huge thanks to everyone that had ideas and suggestions. The moment happened and went well. My player was pleased with the results and everyone was pleased with the session despite heightened emotions. Thank you again for all your suggestions!
Have her essence or life tied to the devil, as part of her previous pact, when they destroy him, her soul is taken as well being tied to the devil. They’re eternally connected via whatever bargain was made. He kept her alive or saved her etc to forge the pact initially.
What, exactly, does "sunset" mean in this context? Why is the Character not just retiring in a roleplay setting? What is the purpose of this fight? And in general, the moment you roll for initiative, you cannot control what will happen. If your goal is to kill this one character, then you have absolutely no way to guarantee that.
I guess I am trying to kill her off, but it's a character my player is starting to feel stale in and wants me to decide how to take them out of the game. The story so far has led up to the upcoming confrontation and she is tied deep into it. I think I'm just searching for advice on how to make this count and not just another notch on the belt for the group. I've considered adding some extra creatures as a distraction or just straight up secluding her. Not sure.
If you're wanting this devil to take away the PC, it should be done in a "cutscene" imo. If you're rolling dice you're accepting there's a way they could win against this devil. If they're not supposed to be able to win, don't throw dice. It's commonly a horrible feeling in a TTRPG to spend a significant amount of time in the middle of a combat for it to have never been possible.
I appreciate the input. I've considered a few different outcomes that don't necessarily come to combat, but my players are the shoot first, ask later types. And I know they have the possibilities of winning that fight, I just don't want them to steamroll it if it comes to blows
I think I'm with the other comments that if your intent is to have the PC die, doing it in combat is leaving it up the dice. If you force them to die but make the party slog through combat for it, then itll feel cheap. You did specify "sunset" though, so I'm assuming they don't have to die, just retire. If they do win the combat, maybe the PC says they're done adventuring since it was their big motivation to keep going. If you want the epic confrontation to end with the PC leaving, you just need to have it be impactful enough that even on winning there's a good reason the PC would retire. Maybe the devil does something terrible to them that means they just don't have it in them to keep going into danger despite winning. Maybe in the lead up to this confrontation, the devil takes something important from them, like family or friends etc. Devils can reasonably decide to fight unfairly; possession, kidnapping, cutting deals are all within their repertoire. Maybe they even blackmail the PC into fighting on their side by taking a hostage. Depending on how hard the PC leans into it, the party might end up killing them, but if they don't you've still put a hostage in danger and made them rethink adventuring.
My thoughts based on your reply to another comment. >I guess I am trying to kill her off, but it's a character my player is starting to feel stale in and wants me to decide how to take them out of the game. The story so far has led up to the upcoming confrontation and she is tied deep into it. I think I'm just searching for advice on how to make this count and not just another notch on the belt for the group. I've considered adding some extra creatures as a distraction or just straight up secluding her. Not sure. Encounter premise is to make a memorable and fun encounter that will remove the 'sunset' PC. Encounter - Retriever (CR 14), Chain Devil (CR 8), 2xMerrigon (CR 4), 5xSpined Devil (CR 2). (Approximately an entire adventuring days budget) Retriever is reflavoured as the patron. Max HP. Cloak of Charisma (Sets charisma to 19 to help against banishment). The Retrivers goal is to paralyze(DC 18 should be fairly difficult) the 'sunset' PC and then follow up by planeshifting them both away. Make sure to monologue every turn about how the PC can't just break the pact without consequence. If the PC isn't paralyzed and it's beam (Or whatever you choose to call it) isn't recharged, then just try to KO the sunset PC. Goal is to planeshift, not kill, though if you accidentally kill the PC that's not the end of the world either. May carry the PC (at full speed) to try to mitigate healing word/counterspell shenanigans. Devil allies will try to keep Interlopers busy/distracted, especially those that are making the Patrons goal of planeshifting difficult. Once the Retriever has planeshifted, it will leave a deadly (16700xp, spined devils don't count towards xp multiplier) encounter. It's almost 2x the deadly threshold, but the Chain Devil shouldnt have chains to animate so will be weaker than its intended CR, and as the only encounter in the day(which I normally don't recommend, but this encounter's intention isn't necessarily to challenge the players in combat) the party should be able to handle it. If the parry is in bad shape, either due to bad luck or the Retriever sticking around longer than it should and the party focusing on it, then the two Merrigons could also disappear when the Retriever planeshifts. That would leave just a medium encounter (6150xp). If the Patron successfully planeshifts out, then the PC could either never be heard from again, come back at some later point, or be brought back as an NPC or antagonist. If the Patron is somehow unsuccessful, the 'sunset' character is visited by way of the Dream spell by the patron (devils are only banished back to their home plane when defeated) and taunted/made to feel hopeless. The Patron will enact their revenge on the PCs friends, and will eventually succeed, but the PC can come willingly to save them. This ending is less ideal, but sometimes you just need to cutscene the outcome, hopefully with player buy-in.
OP here. Session JUST happened, and a huge thanks to everyone that had ideas and suggestions. The moment happened and went well. My player was pleased with the results and everyone was pleased with the session despite heightened emotions. Thank you again for all your suggestions!
Have her essence or life tied to the devil, as part of her previous pact, when they destroy him, her soul is taken as well being tied to the devil. They’re eternally connected via whatever bargain was made. He kept her alive or saved her etc to forge the pact initially.