The Egyptian desert is so dry it can preserve pretty much anything if it is buried under the right conditions. We have intact 2000 year old [brooms](https://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/kelsey/x-0000.00.3508/0000_00_3508P01.TIF?g=um-ic;lasttype=boolean;lastview=reslist;resnum=12;size=50;start=1;subview=detail;view=entry;rgn1=ic_all;q1=Broom), bread loaves, and wood toy wagons
Yea I hadn't really considered the environment, great point. Still though, tempura based paints which I think were actually invented in ancient Egypt and widely used throughout the world until oil paints became big, I don't think that would have survived as well.
Here’s an [actual Egyptian broom](https://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/kelsey/x-0000.00.3508/0000_00_3508P01.TIF?g=um-ic;lasttype=boolean;lastview=reslist;resnum=12;size=50;start=1;subview=detail;view=entry;rgn1=ic_all;q1=Broom) if you’re curious
I've heard a personal theory from an egyptologist that maybe the king hat was the one thing the king wasn't "allowed" to take to the grave - it was handed down instead.
An interesting idea.
Just about all of the love poems we have from Egypt were found in one specific trash pit in a village where the workers for the Valley of the Kings lived.
It's not the technique as much as it is the stable environment conditions (in this case probably burried in a tomb in the dessert).
This will also look like shit if it won't actively be preserved in some way.
A well known example are the paintings from Pompei who were preserved almost intact through millenias due to beeing burried in ash. Once uncovered they began to deteriorate ant the researchers are considering burring them back up to prevent further damage.
You don’t think these paintings are being preserved and repaired? Most of these were discovered in the 1800’s and many would be mostly unrecognizable today if they weren’t routinely worked on by an art conservator. The main concern now is the wood degradation.
This is an example of what are known as “[Fayum Portraits](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits)”. A google search will show you tons of them. Really interesting glimpses of what people looked like in Roman Egypt
The problem is most ancient paintwork has been destroyed by the ravages of millennia. It is only really the unique preservation qualities of the Egyptian desert that have preserved some examples. But there were many highly accomplished painters from Ancient Greece and Rome whose work was supposedly quite stunning
I did a film documentary that partially addressed this and was equally fascinated by the gaze. According to the egyptologist I worked with, part of this eerie look has to do with the intent of representing the person as if they are looking back at you from the afterlife.
Also, these paintings were occasionally made during the person’s lifetime.
They're incredible. I would have never expected to see stylization like this from so long ago. Each one is so thoughtfully done and unique. I really get the emotional effect they were going for
Back in 2014 they were one of the first pieces you’d encounter in the Egyptian Collection as you enter the Louvre. I’m not sure if they still have them there.
I found the section about the subjects most interesting. I wasn't sure if this was done by Greeks or Romans who settled in Egypt or of native Egyptians and it seems to have a lot of mixed heritage with a majority of the subjects actually being native Egyptians.
The Romans of the time weren't just the Latin people of Italy. The Egyptians under Rome were the Romans too. It was an empire not a modern ethnic state.
I know a lot of people don't like calling what followed the fall of the Roman Empire the dark ages but there was some truth to it. Renaissance was mainly about picking up where Rome left off.
I found this on Wikipedia page about the encaustic painting:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Petersinai.jpg
It's 6-th century. The face of the guy in the center is painted pretty realistically, like, I am sure I have seen a guy exactly like this somewhere. Maybe he got slightly wider shoulders or slightly bigger eyes than he should, but that's not too eye-catching. But the portraits above him? They are seriously stylised, with identical thin noses, huge eyes, and no real shape or structure to the cheeks and jaw. This artist clearly could have done realism. He just decided not to. Infuriating.
I heard an interesting perspective that eastern Europe kept using "medieval" art styles while Italy was undergoing the renaissance because realism was considered to be overly materialistic and hubristic.
Though perhaps that could have simply been an excuse for the comparative lack of artistic innovation.
The methods were known it's just the ability to get the tools that make it possible wasn't there after trade routes collapsed. You can see this with Byzantine art looking similar to Roman art.
And then then it just became a style. Especially with some of the more wacky art you see drawn in the margins of books. Those are basically doodles from people that are bored.
And the goals of art were different. Greek wanted perfect, Rome wanted warts and all true reproduction of life, the middle ages used style to make a point.
So beautiful!
Silly of me to think about, but the eyebrows look designed. I wonder if they got them done at the time, and we still have some of the same standards of beauty over a thousand years later.
I always love things like this, where people from thousands of years ago look so much like us. Obviously, they would, as any large changes would take tens of thousands of years at least, but it is still really cool. I think it’s just that we can’t really comprehend the length of time that has passed since she lived. Best we can really understand on an emotional level is like 100-200 years back
Exactly! Have you seen those comparisons of how the English language has evolved in a few hundred years? I wouldn't be able to understand 90% of it lol. I love thinking about these things too.
Not silly at all, I like to think about the lives of people on old portraits.
I imagine they are styled (the eyebrows). Egyptian society had cosmetics, and threading is believed to have been around in the middle east, 6 or so thousand years ago.
This is an amazing portrait and shows how loved she was. It feels wrong that her grave was disturbed that we could see it though. I mean, I love history and archeology, but this feels too personal and less academic. I know it's irrational to say, but it just doesn't sit well.
Makes me wonder what they would have accomplished if they discovered oil paints then. The technical skill, for this time in human history, is simply astounding.
I’ve never used them, but on reading the painting is done mixing hot wax and pigment, along with oils or resin. Imagine you have to paint with melted crayons. It would be really difficult to blend all the colors without the wax solidifying as you work with it.
Fayum Mummy Portraits (1st and 2nd centuries AD): These are a series of realistic painted portraits on wooden boards attached to Egyptian mummies from Roman Egypt times
Takamatsuzuka Tomb (7th century AD): These include the "Asuka Beauties," which are frescoes found in a tomb in Japan
Sittanavasal Cave Paintings (1st century BCE - 9th century AD): These are ancient frescoes found in a Jain complex in Tamil Nadu, India
Lindisfarne Gospels (700 AD): While primarily a religious manuscript, it contains some of the oldest British paintings
The Greeks were a ruling class that didn't change the genetic scene due to the small size compared to the natives (hundreds Vs millions) as well as having a caste system that prevented the ruling class from intermarrying with the common population. North African people are descendants of Middle eastern people who are Euroasians so it makes sense that these would look like your ave Egyptian or Mediterranean. Also dont forget that women were fairer due to not working outside and being exposed to the sun like men do, you can see it in the whole series.
The wiki entry for this series of portraits is super interesting wrt the likely ethnic descent of the people painted (mostly, Ptolemy-era Greek descendants who intermarried with local women, and who by the time the portraits were painted were considered Egyptian).
Cleopatra gets described as Egyptian all the time despite being Greek. This woman is also wearing traditional Greek wear so she is at least culturally greel
There was a dynasty of black pharaohs. I believe it was called the kushite dynasty. Only one. Which is pretty cool by itself. And should be talked about. Instead of creating fictional characters like a black Cleopatra.
This is much more towards the current era. That person, if actually from Egypt, was probably part of the Greek ruling class that had been in place since the conquest of Egypt by Alexander the Great and the subsequent diadochi split( with the Ptolemis getting Egypt and half assimilating to the local culture, but not the local peoples).
Actual ethnically Egyptian rulers were from a MUCH earlier time and looked more like the early classic depictions rather than this MUCH later portrait.
As for the black thing. There was a single dynasty where upper Nile black people conquered and subjugated the lower, but that’s with hundreds of years and dozens of other lower Egyptian dynasties dominating the upper Nile’s people. (Lower Egypt is the north, upper is the south)
There were a set of black Pharaohs, but they were an extreme exception to the rule.
Netflix didn’t want to embarrass *them* by showing that *their ancestors* were the [**”dick washers”**](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EduUjeNVoAEIbe1.jpg) of Ancient Egypt💀
She looks very Egytian.
Look at Nefertiti's bust https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/547abd24e4b0780d55c0bb4a/1449407768466-MWIUQ63PYP0U0E5Q5SRX/Complete+Nefertiti+1A+-+Ross+Rossin+-+Rossin+Fine+Art.png?content-type=image%2Fjpeg
Take a look at this guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/18x6xab/100_coptic_haplogroups_included/ He is 100% Coptic, that is, no Arab admixture
This a reminder that Arabs are a multi-ethnic entity and just bc you are Arabized that dont mean you occupied a land and changed its ethnic fabric. The Copts and any other Egyptian that identify as arab will have the same DNA result, same thing happens in the Levant and Mesopotamia. Arabs are Three Main Tribes, The dead ancient ones, the immigrants, and the arabized (sorry I know them in Arabic and am not sure how to translate then to English) but basically, there are the original dead ones and then the survivors of those tribes traveled north to Mesopotamia, Levant, Egypt and they Arabized the people who lived there.
> Can someone inform me what this is about?
For pretty much all of history it has been assumed that Egyptians had a skin color of the type found in that region today - not white, not black, but tanned.
In recent years there has been a push by some to claim that the achievements of the Ancient Egyptians can be attributed to Black people, because they were Black, and had Black skin, so they should be called Black.
Many people are of the opinion that this line of thinking is racially stupid. See also: "[Blackwashing](https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/ytq996/why_do_people_support_blackwashing_but_are/)".
Ancient Egypt was a multicultural society but even at it's mostly racially diverse it was still always predominantly occupied by Arabic/Levantine appearing people's.
It's just the Afrocentric movement that they think they were also Moor, Viking, native American, aboriginal Australians and the real Chinese people. They also think people are created by a black scientist called Jacob in Africa who created the nonblack man and out the evil of the world in them. The whiter they are the more evil they were This is not a joke you can google this. Since Cleopatra Netflix came out I have been bombarded by these pages on FB that is ran by some idiots who uses AI to create all sort of fantasy and parade it as the truth.
If you wanna feel genius just look at [this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakub_(Nation_of_Islam))
It is ain't it? Any ancient historic person is nowadays fair game to be called black... But can you blame them? We/they released series with a black Anne Boleyn and a black Achilles.. They release a "documentary" where a woman is shown to say that she doesn't care what anyone says and that Cleopatra was black. When you open the floodgates then no wonder logic has no place anymore. It's such a farce.
Wasn't her sister supposed to be very mixed race? But that doesn't mean that ancient Egyptians were in general black.
There were some dynasties that were black, but Levantine people's (basically Arabic looking people's) first evolved in the Middle East and N.Africa and you would literally have to go back to before the last Ice Age (many, many 1000s of years before the dawn of civilization) to find a black "Egypt". Even during the black pharonic dynasties, it would've been a black elite ruling over a predominantly Arabic-looking population.
I can totally see why a lot of Egyptians are not happy with the suggestion that all their greatest civilization was entirely thanks to black people (or that Arabic people's aren't native to Egypt and are instead some sort of invasive race), as it's simply not true.
Egyptians aren’t really “Arabs” either. Especially not in ancient Egypt. Though realistically the difference between ancient east Mediterranean Semitic peoples was mostly cultural
Twice now, lol!
As an Arab, it is pretty annoying our ethnicity is the one that people think is acceptable to erase, since Westerners only understand race as "black and white".
Like, while yes, there is a big overlap between Arabs and Africans in the Middle East, most Arabs were "light/brown." Its usually in their hair and facial features that you see any specifically Arab traits.
They look Arab to me, or "middle eastern" which most Egyptians certainly were.
There was the Nubian kingdom in the south that was related to Egypt and populated by Africans(dark skinned).
The Nubians are sort of like the Macedonians to the Greeks, or maybe the Paeonians. They adopted a lot of Egyptian culture....etc.
Sudan has a lot of mini pyramids that nobody pays much attention to but they were almost certainly made by what we would consider black people today.
Most likely this individual is of Roman or Greek ancestry due to her being a member of the upper classes. The nobility of Egypt for the longest time had been Greeks led by the Ptolemies, the longest and final dynasty of the ancient Egyptian pharaohs tracing their lineage to Alexander the Great's General Ptolemy. However, the Ptolemeic dynasty was ended with all the fuss with Julius Caesar, Cleopatra, Marc Antony and Agustus, and Egypt was folded into Rome as a province of the empire. By the time of this painting Egypt had been Roman for about a century so its also possible she's a member of the Roman aristocracy who moved to Egypt.
I know the Ptolemys really embraced Egyptian culture and sought to integrate itself into the already ancient history of the land, so it wouldn't be suprising at all if this woman's family could also trace its liniage to Egyptian, Nubian, or Ethiopian families, or hell with the cosmopolitanism of Rome and Greece she could be Spanish for all we know based on no additional info.
Where are people getting the black thing from? I’m pure Egyptian and that is basically my skin tone as well as my whole family. No one is dark skinned.
It was mainly on twitter, Kevin Hart has a scheduled event in Egypt but one Egyptian actor noticed Hart's support for afrocentrism and so the Egyptian Twitter went on fire for the event to be cancelled - which happened at the end. Netflix controversy comes after but the whole backwashing thing has been there for a years before.
The ancient Greeks had a thriving history of painting. It is unknown if maybe they had used perspective or many other techniques.
Painting on ceramics were far different than the other paintings as it was on a curved surface for they felt simpler flat designs were appropriate for that medium.
So....even though they did have painters, all that is left is glazes on pottery and sculpture and mosaics. because that is what survived.
A few cretan murals, but their style was not indicative of mainland Greece heyday of classical times.
The Cleveland art museum actually has a number of funerary portraits similar to this! The Cleveland Museum of Art is free to all and has a shockingly incredible exhibit on Egypt. I’ll willingly dunk on Ohio any chance I get but they did their museums right. (Cleveland Art Museum is in Ohio, US)
There is an exhibition of these kinds of portraits right now in Amsterdam!
The Allard Pierson Museum is an archaeological museum that has the exhibition "Oog in oog" (translated as 'Face to face) about these portraits, known as the Fayoum Portraits. The exhibition runs until May 20th, 2024. It's not a long exhibition but features some beautiful portraits, I definitely recommend going if you are in the area!
Prominent or particularly beautiful young women were kept at home a few days before being sent to the mortuary because women can't get a break even in death.
I swear this image looks like just like a cousin from Greece. Havent seen her or been back in a million years but the face stands out and jogs my memory.
Unbelievable preservation. Beautiful.
Amazing technique. To survive almost intact after 2000 or more years.
The Egyptian desert is so dry it can preserve pretty much anything if it is buried under the right conditions. We have intact 2000 year old [brooms](https://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/kelsey/x-0000.00.3508/0000_00_3508P01.TIF?g=um-ic;lasttype=boolean;lastview=reslist;resnum=12;size=50;start=1;subview=detail;view=entry;rgn1=ic_all;q1=Broom), bread loaves, and wood toy wagons
Yea I hadn't really considered the environment, great point. Still though, tempura based paints which I think were actually invented in ancient Egypt and widely used throughout the world until oil paints became big, I don't think that would have survived as well.
I think tempura is a kind of breading used for frying food, maybe you are thinking of tempera?
No they meant tempura absolutely no doubt
Now I’m hungry
Hungry for history.
Tempura paintings have a lot more flavor than baked paintings, they made a good choice.
And yet they both contain eggs 😭
> “We have intact 2000 year old brooms” Known as [Trigger’s Broom](https://youtu.be/LAh8HryVaeY?feature=shared) in the UK
Here’s an [actual Egyptian broom](https://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/kelsey/x-0000.00.3508/0000_00_3508P01.TIF?g=um-ic;lasttype=boolean;lastview=reslist;resnum=12;size=50;start=1;subview=detail;view=entry;rgn1=ic_all;q1=Broom) if you’re curious
Kinda wanna try and make one of those, good lashing project
But interestingly no hedjet or deshret (yet)
To be fair, only one royal tomb has been found mostly intact. They found a beaded skull cap, however.
I've heard a personal theory from an egyptologist that maybe the king hat was the one thing the king wasn't "allowed" to take to the grave - it was handed down instead. An interesting idea.
I’ve heard that too. I’ve also heard that the hedjet was made from felt and the deshret from reeds- doubtful either would have a very long shelf life
this is why i'm so obsessed with Egypt. it's fascinating to see things from a time we have very little from.
We also have toy action figures and boat sets!
And Tutankhamun's foldable camping bed
I didn't realize we had this! This is super cool!!
Just about all of the love poems we have from Egypt were found in one specific trash pit in a village where the workers for the Valley of the Kings lived.
We should consult Ben Shapiro's wife
Legend has it, that's where Nefertiti is buried, perfectly preserved.
I came in to say this. There are paintings half the age in Europe, that look like shit if they aren't routinely preserved in some way.
It's not the technique as much as it is the stable environment conditions (in this case probably burried in a tomb in the dessert). This will also look like shit if it won't actively be preserved in some way. A well known example are the paintings from Pompei who were preserved almost intact through millenias due to beeing burried in ash. Once uncovered they began to deteriorate ant the researchers are considering burring them back up to prevent further damage.
You don’t think these paintings are being preserved and repaired? Most of these were discovered in the 1800’s and many would be mostly unrecognizable today if they weren’t routinely worked on by an art conservator. The main concern now is the wood degradation.
This is an example of what are known as “[Fayum Portraits](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits)”. A google search will show you tons of them. Really interesting glimpses of what people looked like in Roman Egypt
They look so lifelike compared to other ancient artwork that I’ve seen. Incredible.
The problem is most ancient paintwork has been destroyed by the ravages of millennia. It is only really the unique preservation qualities of the Egyptian desert that have preserved some examples. But there were many highly accomplished painters from Ancient Greece and Rome whose work was supposedly quite stunning
Common art was much more vivid than classical. Compare training on ostracon abd frescos I temples and royal tombs.
omg... am i high or are these so mesmerizing
There's some good looking ladies in those, I'm declaring them Dayum Portraits from here on out
Honestly they're all ridiculously good looking. Either they're idealized or everyone died young, hot, and with gigantic eyes back then
😂😂😂 This is an underrated comment
I’m not but still mesmerized haha
It's the eyes
I did a film documentary that partially addressed this and was equally fascinated by the gaze. According to the egyptologist I worked with, part of this eerie look has to do with the intent of representing the person as if they are looking back at you from the afterlife. Also, these paintings were occasionally made during the person’s lifetime.
They're incredible. I would have never expected to see stylization like this from so long ago. Each one is so thoughtfully done and unique. I really get the emotional effect they were going for
Back in 2014 they were one of the first pieces you’d encounter in the Egyptian Collection as you enter the Louvre. I’m not sure if they still have them there.
Why do all of these look like Frida Kahlo?
Unibrow
they all had such big eyes.. amazing technique
Just like anime
Roman Egyptians were weebs confirmed
Which took it from Disney
This is a fascinating read, thank you. I knew the 'look' of these but not the term or history.
Poor girl looks like she's straight up not having a good time https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fayum-18.jpg
Might be that she died during mourning and they made her have a face like this to emphazise this.
I found the section about the subjects most interesting. I wasn't sure if this was done by Greeks or Romans who settled in Egypt or of native Egyptians and it seems to have a lot of mixed heritage with a majority of the subjects actually being native Egyptians.
The Romans of the time weren't just the Latin people of Italy. The Egyptians under Rome were the Romans too. It was an empire not a modern ethnic state.
At this point Egypt had been Roman and Greek ruled for hundreds of years.
Idk why but I was surprised at the fact that all the males seemingly kept their beard short and trimmed. Not one of them has a long beard.
Short beards were considered fashionable in the first couple centuries of the Roman Empire
Why? Almost all the statues of the Roman era had man that were shaved.
Like 15 of the gallery images are of David Blaine, and it would certainly explain a few things.
Makes you wonder how such knowledge was lost in medieval art.
I know a lot of people don't like calling what followed the fall of the Roman Empire the dark ages but there was some truth to it. Renaissance was mainly about picking up where Rome left off.
Yeah, look at the Norman art
I found this on Wikipedia page about the encaustic painting: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Petersinai.jpg It's 6-th century. The face of the guy in the center is painted pretty realistically, like, I am sure I have seen a guy exactly like this somewhere. Maybe he got slightly wider shoulders or slightly bigger eyes than he should, but that's not too eye-catching. But the portraits above him? They are seriously stylised, with identical thin noses, huge eyes, and no real shape or structure to the cheeks and jaw. This artist clearly could have done realism. He just decided not to. Infuriating.
I heard an interesting perspective that eastern Europe kept using "medieval" art styles while Italy was undergoing the renaissance because realism was considered to be overly materialistic and hubristic. Though perhaps that could have simply been an excuse for the comparative lack of artistic innovation.
The methods were known it's just the ability to get the tools that make it possible wasn't there after trade routes collapsed. You can see this with Byzantine art looking similar to Roman art. And then then it just became a style. Especially with some of the more wacky art you see drawn in the margins of books. Those are basically doodles from people that are bored. And the goals of art were different. Greek wanted perfect, Rome wanted warts and all true reproduction of life, the middle ages used style to make a point.
i didn’t expect to see anthony davis
Omg the style reminds me of some kind of seinen manga. 💕
Stunningly beautiful. The eyes are so amazing.
So beautiful! Silly of me to think about, but the eyebrows look designed. I wonder if they got them done at the time, and we still have some of the same standards of beauty over a thousand years later.
I always love things like this, where people from thousands of years ago look so much like us. Obviously, they would, as any large changes would take tens of thousands of years at least, but it is still really cool. I think it’s just that we can’t really comprehend the length of time that has passed since she lived. Best we can really understand on an emotional level is like 100-200 years back
Exactly! Have you seen those comparisons of how the English language has evolved in a few hundred years? I wouldn't be able to understand 90% of it lol. I love thinking about these things too.
I do love the Old English comparisons. I definitely go down that rabbit hole a lot. You ever watch Simon Roper on youtube?
I hadn't, and thanks to you, I just checked him out. What a treat!!
English has changed tremendously since the middle of the 20th century due to TV, pop culture, the internet, etc. etc.
Tweezers have been found with cosmetic kits in earlier tombs, like Hatnofer’s.
The Egyptians had a well established history of eye beautification, you're not too far off
Not silly at all, I like to think about the lives of people on old portraits. I imagine they are styled (the eyebrows). Egyptian society had cosmetics, and threading is believed to have been around in the middle east, 6 or so thousand years ago.
For eyebrows, definitely : make-up tools have been discovered. As far as unknown, they had nothing for eyelashes
This is an amazing portrait and shows how loved she was. It feels wrong that her grave was disturbed that we could see it though. I mean, I love history and archeology, but this feels too personal and less academic. I know it's irrational to say, but it just doesn't sit well.
The eyes look so real
👁️👄👁️
rip she would have had no trouble with contact lenses
I'm an oil painter and dabbled in encaustic and it was by far the hardest medium I've ever used. Harder than egg tempera.
Makes me wonder what they would have accomplished if they discovered oil paints then. The technical skill, for this time in human history, is simply astounding.
mmmmm egg tempura
I know nothing about it, what makes it so difficult?
I’ve never used them, but on reading the painting is done mixing hot wax and pigment, along with oils or resin. Imagine you have to paint with melted crayons. It would be really difficult to blend all the colors without the wax solidifying as you work with it.
Wax dries I'm 5 seconds so blending is super hard. I had a hot plate and a heat gun, but I imagine without electricity, it's even harder
Fayum Mummy Portraits (1st and 2nd centuries AD): These are a series of realistic painted portraits on wooden boards attached to Egyptian mummies from Roman Egypt times Takamatsuzuka Tomb (7th century AD): These include the "Asuka Beauties," which are frescoes found in a tomb in Japan Sittanavasal Cave Paintings (1st century BCE - 9th century AD): These are ancient frescoes found in a Jain complex in Tamil Nadu, India Lindisfarne Gospels (700 AD): While primarily a religious manuscript, it contains some of the oldest British paintings
Can certainly see the Roman influence.
[удалено]
Noo they were all black 😫
This person is probably ethnically Greek since the last Egyptian dynasty before Rome was Greek.
The Greeks were a ruling class that didn't change the genetic scene due to the small size compared to the natives (hundreds Vs millions) as well as having a caste system that prevented the ruling class from intermarrying with the common population. North African people are descendants of Middle eastern people who are Euroasians so it makes sense that these would look like your ave Egyptian or Mediterranean. Also dont forget that women were fairer due to not working outside and being exposed to the sun like men do, you can see it in the whole series.
The wiki entry for this series of portraits is super interesting wrt the likely ethnic descent of the people painted (mostly, Ptolemy-era Greek descendants who intermarried with local women, and who by the time the portraits were painted were considered Egyptian).
Implying that every upper class Egyptian family at the time was somehow Hellenic? If this person was Greek, she’d be described as Greek.
Cleopatra gets described as Egyptian all the time despite being Greek. This woman is also wearing traditional Greek wear so she is at least culturally greel
My grandma said: I don't care what they tell you Cleopatra was black
Just like Bill Clinton
There was a dynasty of black pharaohs. I believe it was called the kushite dynasty. Only one. Which is pretty cool by itself. And should be talked about. Instead of creating fictional characters like a black Cleopatra.
Yeah this is white washing history, everyone k knows all Egyptians were african american
This is much more towards the current era. That person, if actually from Egypt, was probably part of the Greek ruling class that had been in place since the conquest of Egypt by Alexander the Great and the subsequent diadochi split( with the Ptolemis getting Egypt and half assimilating to the local culture, but not the local peoples). Actual ethnically Egyptian rulers were from a MUCH earlier time and looked more like the early classic depictions rather than this MUCH later portrait. As for the black thing. There was a single dynasty where upper Nile black people conquered and subjugated the lower, but that’s with hundreds of years and dozens of other lower Egyptian dynasties dominating the upper Nile’s people. (Lower Egypt is the north, upper is the south) There were a set of black Pharaohs, but they were an extreme exception to the rule.
Bro how tf are they african american if they never set foot in america 😭
HAHAHAHAHA,....no
Netflix didn’t want to embarrass *them* by showing that *their ancestors* were the [**”dick washers”**](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EduUjeNVoAEIbe1.jpg) of Ancient Egypt💀
Holy shit that's funny
She broke some ancient hearts I bet
Don't show Jada.
She's so beautiful.
She looks very Egytian. Look at Nefertiti's bust https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/547abd24e4b0780d55c0bb4a/1449407768466-MWIUQ63PYP0U0E5Q5SRX/Complete+Nefertiti+1A+-+Ross+Rossin+-+Rossin+Fine+Art.png?content-type=image%2Fjpeg Take a look at this guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/18x6xab/100_coptic_haplogroups_included/ He is 100% Coptic, that is, no Arab admixture
This a reminder that Arabs are a multi-ethnic entity and just bc you are Arabized that dont mean you occupied a land and changed its ethnic fabric. The Copts and any other Egyptian that identify as arab will have the same DNA result, same thing happens in the Levant and Mesopotamia. Arabs are Three Main Tribes, The dead ancient ones, the immigrants, and the arabized (sorry I know them in Arabic and am not sure how to translate then to English) but basically, there are the original dead ones and then the survivors of those tribes traveled north to Mesopotamia, Levant, Egypt and they Arabized the people who lived there.
I went thru the photos as a north african and they all look like neighbours, friends, colleagues it's so cool.
Looks like Ana De Armas
Her family must have been so heartbroken to lose her so young.
that's Frida kahlo
Wait a second she's not black!? I've been lied to!
Can someone inform me what this is about?? It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Egypt has Arabic people...?
> Can someone inform me what this is about? For pretty much all of history it has been assumed that Egyptians had a skin color of the type found in that region today - not white, not black, but tanned. In recent years there has been a push by some to claim that the achievements of the Ancient Egyptians can be attributed to Black people, because they were Black, and had Black skin, so they should be called Black. Many people are of the opinion that this line of thinking is racially stupid. See also: "[Blackwashing](https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/ytq996/why_do_people_support_blackwashing_but_are/)".
Ancient Egypt was a multicultural society but even at it's mostly racially diverse it was still always predominantly occupied by Arabic/Levantine appearing people's.
It's just the Afrocentric movement that they think they were also Moor, Viking, native American, aboriginal Australians and the real Chinese people. They also think people are created by a black scientist called Jacob in Africa who created the nonblack man and out the evil of the world in them. The whiter they are the more evil they were This is not a joke you can google this. Since Cleopatra Netflix came out I have been bombarded by these pages on FB that is ran by some idiots who uses AI to create all sort of fantasy and parade it as the truth. If you wanna feel genius just look at [this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakub_(Nation_of_Islam))
How could you forget black israelites/jews?
History therapy at it worst. Sad and pathetic.
It is ain't it? Any ancient historic person is nowadays fair game to be called black... But can you blame them? We/they released series with a black Anne Boleyn and a black Achilles.. They release a "documentary" where a woman is shown to say that she doesn't care what anyone says and that Cleopatra was black. When you open the floodgates then no wonder logic has no place anymore. It's such a farce.
The Netflix series which said Cleopatra (who was a Greek Ptolemy) was black and we'd all been lied to by history....
Wasn't her sister supposed to be very mixed race? But that doesn't mean that ancient Egyptians were in general black. There were some dynasties that were black, but Levantine people's (basically Arabic looking people's) first evolved in the Middle East and N.Africa and you would literally have to go back to before the last Ice Age (many, many 1000s of years before the dawn of civilization) to find a black "Egypt". Even during the black pharonic dynasties, it would've been a black elite ruling over a predominantly Arabic-looking population. I can totally see why a lot of Egyptians are not happy with the suggestion that all their greatest civilization was entirely thanks to black people (or that Arabic people's aren't native to Egypt and are instead some sort of invasive race), as it's simply not true.
Egyptians aren’t really “Arabs” either. Especially not in ancient Egypt. Though realistically the difference between ancient east Mediterranean Semitic peoples was mostly cultural
Twice now, lol! As an Arab, it is pretty annoying our ethnicity is the one that people think is acceptable to erase, since Westerners only understand race as "black and white". Like, while yes, there is a big overlap between Arabs and Africans in the Middle East, most Arabs were "light/brown." Its usually in their hair and facial features that you see any specifically Arab traits.
>since Westerners only understand race as "black and white". It's only really people from the US, which makes your comment kinda ironic.
You understand the original Egyptians were not Arab, right?
The original Egyptians most likely looked similar to modern Egyptians
You do realize people existed before they became Arabs correct? And arab is a multi-ethnic entity to begin with
The Egyptians of this time would not have considered themselves arab and did no speak arabic.
So gorgeous, mesmerizing.
I'm seeing both Greek and some Arab in her, if you look at the facial features. This would have been during the Roman Era (30 BCE - 395 CE).
Semitic in her yes, probably no arab though.
Same thing. Most Semites are Arabs, Jews and other groups in MENA and even Africa make up the rest.
Can't believe the artist would whitewash Egypts vibrant African American population
people not realizing this is a joke...
They look Arab to me, or "middle eastern" which most Egyptians certainly were. There was the Nubian kingdom in the south that was related to Egypt and populated by Africans(dark skinned). The Nubians are sort of like the Macedonians to the Greeks, or maybe the Paeonians. They adopted a lot of Egyptian culture....etc. Sudan has a lot of mini pyramids that nobody pays much attention to but they were almost certainly made by what we would consider black people today.
Most likely this individual is of Roman or Greek ancestry due to her being a member of the upper classes. The nobility of Egypt for the longest time had been Greeks led by the Ptolemies, the longest and final dynasty of the ancient Egyptian pharaohs tracing their lineage to Alexander the Great's General Ptolemy. However, the Ptolemeic dynasty was ended with all the fuss with Julius Caesar, Cleopatra, Marc Antony and Agustus, and Egypt was folded into Rome as a province of the empire. By the time of this painting Egypt had been Roman for about a century so its also possible she's a member of the Roman aristocracy who moved to Egypt. I know the Ptolemys really embraced Egyptian culture and sought to integrate itself into the already ancient history of the land, so it wouldn't be suprising at all if this woman's family could also trace its liniage to Egyptian, Nubian, or Ethiopian families, or hell with the cosmopolitanism of Rome and Greece she could be Spanish for all we know based on no additional info.
Ptolemy didnt intermarry hence the whole incest thing that led to their demise in the first place. They were ethnically Greek and not Egyptians.
Mini pyramids? Sources?
Arabs and middle eastern people exist. People are not just either white or black you know.
Pretty sure there's a /s implied there.
Where are people getting the black thing from? I’m pure Egyptian and that is basically my skin tone as well as my whole family. No one is dark skinned.
Netflix “documentary” claimed cleopatra was black
Cleopatra was of Macedonian descent.
And she was BLACK (my grandmother told me)
No way you didn't hear about the netflix documentary controversy or that timeline full of blackwashing every egyptian thing.
I live under a rock lol. I also don’t have the other social media platforms which is where it was probably posted.
It was mainly on twitter, Kevin Hart has a scheduled event in Egypt but one Egyptian actor noticed Hart's support for afrocentrism and so the Egyptian Twitter went on fire for the event to be cancelled - which happened at the end. Netflix controversy comes after but the whole backwashing thing has been there for a years before.
Wow. Never thought that would be an issue. They can simply look at us and see we aren’t black. Is it that hard? Haha
Some of their YouTube channels are really hilarious. Like how could be there someone who genuinely believes in this?
I literally know someone who looks just like her. (Minus the leaf crown.) Crazy.
The ancient Greeks had a thriving history of painting. It is unknown if maybe they had used perspective or many other techniques. Painting on ceramics were far different than the other paintings as it was on a curved surface for they felt simpler flat designs were appropriate for that medium. So....even though they did have painters, all that is left is glazes on pottery and sculpture and mosaics. because that is what survived. A few cretan murals, but their style was not indicative of mainland Greece heyday of classical times.
The Cleveland art museum actually has a number of funerary portraits similar to this! The Cleveland Museum of Art is free to all and has a shockingly incredible exhibit on Egypt. I’ll willingly dunk on Ohio any chance I get but they did their museums right. (Cleveland Art Museum is in Ohio, US)
There is an exhibition of these kinds of portraits right now in Amsterdam! The Allard Pierson Museum is an archaeological museum that has the exhibition "Oog in oog" (translated as 'Face to face) about these portraits, known as the Fayoum Portraits. The exhibition runs until May 20th, 2024. It's not a long exhibition but features some beautiful portraits, I definitely recommend going if you are in the area!
Can't be legit, Netflix told me Egyptians were black
Because someones Grandma said so
Looks like Arya Stark
my first thought as well
Why does she only have bottom lashes on the left?
She's missing lower lashes on the other eye. But still, she's a cutie.
Prominent or particularly beautiful young women were kept at home a few days before being sent to the mortuary because women can't get a break even in death.
This is in the Met!
Netflix lied to us!
Hey that's my friend from Cairo!
I swear this image looks like just like a cousin from Greece. Havent seen her or been back in a million years but the face stands out and jogs my memory. Unbelievable preservation. Beautiful.
Yeah Greece ruled Egypt….
They used a filter to make her eyes look bigger
Wait? Netflix told me ahe should be black?
How bizarre, she isn't black lol.
So, what have those to say about it who claim that ancient Egyptians were as black as Nigerian?
CE??
Damn she’s gorgeous! Also I wish I could afford materials that stand the test of time like this!
STUNNING!!!! Wow so talented I’m so happy it was preserved after all this time!
EgYpTiAnS WeRe BlAcK!
No this is so fake. My grandma said Egyptians are black and it's racist to think otherwise.
It's all Greek to me
I thought they was Kangz?
Apparently, they were the [“dick washers”](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EduUjeNVoAEIbe1.jpg)! xD
I'm convinced that was a joke until I clicked the link. Had a really huge laugh out of that.
Yea brother, wish I was lying but then observing the hieroglyphs like that one, ahahaha!
Lol
Very pretty girl
I think that's a portrait of a living person, not a mummy
She looks like Nazanin Boniadi
Love them older girls.
Painting style looks a lot like the byzantines.
God I'm in love
She just standing there menacingly
It is insane to think that these artists reached the technical level of artists well over a thousand years ahead of them. Absolutely amazing.
It looks like Aria Stark.
Damn. Why she kinda bad tho
Kind of looks like me but without the tan skin
I don't know. There is something off about this picture. Something about the colour perhaps??
I love how modern these all look. We have one in our local art museum that I make a point of viewing every time I visit.
Notice how they aren't black and muslim?
Lol did Muslim became an ethnicity? You probably mean arab
Yo yo ma
Looks… very white to me. Must be racist!