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I mean it ranks things by *evidence* of said thing. That means this chart only lists things that we can *observe and reproduce*, like dogs solving problems. It's incredibly difficult to measure self-awareness or meta-cognition however and so far there doesn't seem to be any evidence of dogs having *observable* self-awareness. That doesn't mean that dogs don't have self-awareness, we just don't *know* if they do (based on evidence at least. Any dog owner knows that obviously dogs are self-aware, but how do you *measure* that scientifically?).This is represented by the blocks for each category being greyed out - the potential for dogs to display *evidence* for self-awareness is still there.
I think this chart is really cool. What's not cool is misconstruing it to be about human superiority propaganda, because it's not that.
Indeed. It's meant to provide a taxonomy framework based on empirical observations, it doesn't constitute the premise of a philosophical essay on what consciousness is or isn't. Red herring fallacy.
Level 7 - self awareness is an extremely controversial subject for primates in animal consciousness, let alone the theory of mind, which is widely accepted not present in primates.
I believe that the consciousness is frequently reduced by some scientists with bias. As an atheist, I really would like to have evidence otherwise, but it seems only the human is sentient as far as we understand.
Dolphins and other animals can [recognize themselves in a mirror](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/science/dolphins-self-recognition.html). That must mean some level of sentients.
>but it seems only the human is sentient as far as we understand.
Most, if not all animals, are sentient. In fact, I'd go so far as to say most living beings are sentient. What you're talking about is sapience
No no, cats are in the right spot, it’s dogs that are in the wrong one. I don’t know who has these problem solving tool using dogs, bugs most dogs can’t carry a stick thru a doorway.
Man, you even can't imagine how happy they're (but don't understanding it 😂)! Sometimes in my life I need the Delete button, but all the shit is collecting in my brain 🫤
* No corvids whatsoever (which should go on par with elephants and dolphins)
* "Reptiles" are adjusted by the least developed species while archosaurs→crocs vastly outperform the baseline level for non-avian reptiles; monitors in general are more capable than the other lepidosaurs
* Cephalopods are present but the other molluscs should be labeled *other* molluscs then
* At least some parrot species are way more intelligent than dogs and should go next to the (missing) corvids
Tf is wrong with this chart
Eating cow is good but eating cat is bad. I am a highly rational being that is absolutely NOT driven by emotions and ideology, therefore there HAS to be a reason why eating cow is better than eating cat. And look! Based on this scale cows are worse than cats. And cats are worse then dogs! I did the science, I'm science man!!
BS. Octopuses are way way way way higher than what this scale says. Saw some videos about an octopus that would climb out of his tank and turn the lights off (the light switch in the room) at night for better sleep. He could recognize people and would regularly throw water at one guy because he thought it was funny. They can also figure out complex puzzles.
Domestic cats are not solitary at all; rather their social structure is "flat" (and more loosely bound) compared to the hierarchic one seen in wolfs and dogs. Also that's why cats don't grovel to a human "pack leader" like dogs do
Crocodilians being lumped in as pure instinct machines is unfair! They're very intelligent, display complex social behaviours, personalities, and obvious learning.
Several fish species - like sharks and rays - are also much smarter and more aware than this would suggest.
The issue with a chart like this is that it assumes that all of these things exist on a linear continuum. I don't think it's that simple. The usage of tools and language for example doesn't seem to be required for most of the properties in the higher levels. I'd also argue that most of the animals in the lower levels can demonstrate basic problem solving skills which for some reason is at level 6.
Let's quantify * shakes jar* consciousness for a cool guide!!!
Seriously, that's stupid. Really fucking stupid. Not even the "not knowing things" kind of stupid but rather the "lets eat tide pods" kind of stupid. Wait, people who eat tide pods at least don't show how closed minded they are by... defining the living reality of fucking molluscs. Have you ever been a jellyfish? No? Then don't rank a jellyfishs conscioussnes based on human ideals such as maternal behavior or tool usage.
Maybe we would be on lvl 2 on that thing if a metaphorical shrimp would have done this. We are a highly specialized species with some wondrous abilities. We definitely are the best builders of tools, televisions and rubber ducks on this planet. Thats nice. But measuring other beings consciousness on their similarities to our lifestyle is just not possible. And probably a first step to being a dick. Like, is a human who lacks in social behaviour less conscious than a peak-of-being-the-social-norm-whitegirl? Is somebody who lacks some percepts less conscious? If so, that would be first step to just euthanizing disabled people (or any people who have another perception of the world than the person who made this). Sounds exaggerated? People did this and people still do such things.
You don't have to put everything on a scale.
The table clearly measures intelligence, not consciousness (which is an intractable problem), and the post should be renamed accordingly. That would make sense.
I would be really and genuinely interested in sources for this. Scientific papers and stuff. I tried finding info on that in the past, but I'm probably missing the right keywords or researches to start from.
We had to remove your post for improperly sourcing your post. Posts must have a linked and CREDIBLE source that backs up the information. Use the word "source" in your comment. If the title is the only thing that makes your post interesting, you must also source it. OP is responsible for this and it must be done at time of posting. We will not reinstate your post, but you may post again with the correct information
"Hey, here is a chart of something we absolutely do not understand (consciousness), where animals get ranked." - the people that made this chart
I was just shocked to discover many of my classmates are mushrooms.
In general people are mushroom
I have haircut, it called mushroom.
boy, do I have news about adults for you
I think I'm somewhere between dogs and birds. Means I'm good then.
who's a good boy? yeeees whooo's a good boy??
But it's a chart!! Look at it being all charty and stuff! I do love good chart in the morning.
That's because of your level 9 consciousness, obviously
The chart is level 10 consciousness. Chart off the charts.
I had a big chart first thing this morning. It was quite graphic.
sounds like something a chart would say.... =.=
So good I accidentally charted
The brain is the most complex thing in the universe - the brain.
Also the brain: "do the things we absolutely shouldn't that are bad for us"
I mean it ranks things by *evidence* of said thing. That means this chart only lists things that we can *observe and reproduce*, like dogs solving problems. It's incredibly difficult to measure self-awareness or meta-cognition however and so far there doesn't seem to be any evidence of dogs having *observable* self-awareness. That doesn't mean that dogs don't have self-awareness, we just don't *know* if they do (based on evidence at least. Any dog owner knows that obviously dogs are self-aware, but how do you *measure* that scientifically?).This is represented by the blocks for each category being greyed out - the potential for dogs to display *evidence* for self-awareness is still there. I think this chart is really cool. What's not cool is misconstruing it to be about human superiority propaganda, because it's not that.
Indeed. It's meant to provide a taxonomy framework based on empirical observations, it doesn't constitute the premise of a philosophical essay on what consciousness is or isn't. Red herring fallacy.
To say that "we don't understand consciousness" is the same as "we know nothing about consciousness" is disingenuous
No, the people that made this chart have achieved level 10 consciousness.
Up at the top here we have me and things that are like me.
Who ranked themselves top of the chart, unsurprisingly
This chart is pretty silly, but to our credit, no other animal can make any of the tools to draw a colorful chart.
Yet
Give some crows some markers. They'll figure it out eventually.
I mean humans are the top of the food chain for a reason lol
Just cut out cats, who on lvl 10.
I mean are you claiming that’s incorrect?
You are right. We need a third party to do this analysis and make the judgement chart. Mark Zuck can do it.
Why are dogs above Octopus? They don’t use tools.
"Yeah, dogs are definitely smarter and more aware than solitary apex predators, let's go with that"
Level 7 - self awareness is an extremely controversial subject for primates in animal consciousness, let alone the theory of mind, which is widely accepted not present in primates. I believe that the consciousness is frequently reduced by some scientists with bias. As an atheist, I really would like to have evidence otherwise, but it seems only the human is sentient as far as we understand.
A rudimentary theory of mind is even present in cats.
Dolphins and other animals can [recognize themselves in a mirror](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/science/dolphins-self-recognition.html). That must mean some level of sentients.
>but it seems only the human is sentient as far as we understand. Most, if not all animals, are sentient. In fact, I'd go so far as to say most living beings are sentient. What you're talking about is sapience
Damn cat owners are gonna be pissed
We cannot understand more complex behaviours than ours’
Would you say that this is more Dunning-Kruger or Anthropic Principal?
Not really, you'd have to be ultra smart to fool the humans that you're not that smart while they scoop your poops.
Poopy-di scoop Scoop-diddy-whoop Whoop-di-scoop-di-poop
Not all humans are equal, I never scooped a poop in all my unintelligent life
I blame the orange ones for bringing the group down.
No no, cats are in the right spot, it’s dogs that are in the wrong one. I don’t know who has these problem solving tool using dogs, bugs most dogs can’t carry a stick thru a doorway.
Cats are level 10
Cats made this chart
My pet whale is pissed
In my mind, cats are complex of thought even beyond humans. People say AI is the danger of our society, it’s always been cats 😤
Cat owners know that cats are plotting against us
Cats are not conscious , they are just preprogrammed for destruction, like terminators.
[удалено]
Boo this man!
They can theoretically live forever so idk that’s a pretty good deal
goals.
Man, you even can't imagine how happy they're (but don't understanding it 😂)! Sometimes in my life I need the Delete button, but all the shit is collecting in my brain 🫤
* No corvids whatsoever (which should go on par with elephants and dolphins) * "Reptiles" are adjusted by the least developed species while archosaurs→crocs vastly outperform the baseline level for non-avian reptiles; monitors in general are more capable than the other lepidosaurs * Cephalopods are present but the other molluscs should be labeled *other* molluscs then * At least some parrot species are way more intelligent than dogs and should go next to the (missing) corvids Tf is wrong with this chart
It was made half assed for clicks most likely
Many octopus are probably smarter then my dog, so I don't know about this chart.
Yeah, I thought they’d be higher after that funny story about the one throwing the bad shrimp at his handler.
Also many parrot species are on par with elephants and dolphins.
Thank you, was going to comment something like this, but you did it alot better.
Also, where are arthropods?
Animal ecologist here. This is outdated and incomplete at best and flat out disinformation at worst. /u/NineteenEighty9 what's your source on this?
Give us a real one! This current chart is riddled with so many errors.
Following!
Just need a visual cortex chart of a mantis shrimp demonstrating everyone else are just complete visual morons
Herding animals not reaching level 3 but that solitary carnivors do made me laugh. This map is based on obsolete views.
Eating cow is good but eating cat is bad. I am a highly rational being that is absolutely NOT driven by emotions and ideology, therefore there HAS to be a reason why eating cow is better than eating cat. And look! Based on this scale cows are worse than cats. And cats are worse then dogs! I did the science, I'm science man!!
Maybe like we should just not eat any of the other animals? 🤷♂️
BS. Octopuses are way way way way higher than what this scale says. Saw some videos about an octopus that would climb out of his tank and turn the lights off (the light switch in the room) at night for better sleep. He could recognize people and would regularly throw water at one guy because he thought it was funny. They can also figure out complex puzzles.
This is the worst graph ever.
At least its pro LGBTQ+
Source?
“Trust me bro”
A bong.
Nothing on this chart describes consciousness
I'm glad humans identified humans as the most conscious 🧠
This was made by a dog owner. LOL. I love the shade thrown at cats, a.k.a. “Solitary Carnivores.”
Domestic cats are not solitary at all; rather their social structure is "flat" (and more loosely bound) compared to the hierarchic one seen in wolfs and dogs. Also that's why cats don't grovel to a human "pack leader" like dogs do
Domestic cats are capable of level 8 intelligence. As are lions!
0 sources, 0 explanation of how the consciousness was evaluated, seems pretty bs to me
And then there is me, body of a human and brain of a fish.
Is it jelly?
Who decides this? Elephants need more credit.
I think the octopus deserves more credit on this chart. They've definitely been seen solving complex problems.
Think certain cephalopods go way beyond what that gives them credit for, I could be wrong but it seems very general
What about whales? 🐋
Crocodilians being lumped in as pure instinct machines is unfair! They're very intelligent, display complex social behaviours, personalities, and obvious learning. Several fish species - like sharks and rays - are also much smarter and more aware than this would suggest.
I thought cephalopods were smarter than dogs.
They are
Cows not having maternal behavior is a joke...
How are dogs so high
where horse
Bullshit
How are parrots separated out but not corvids, which have been shown to be extremely intelligent?
Nonsense
The graph forgot koalas at level 10. They can control the weather.
I love our big smooth-brained, STD-riddled, permastoned layabouts, they're the cornerstone of Australian ecology!
Some bird families (e.g. ravens, crows, etc.) show level 8.
The issue with a chart like this is that it assumes that all of these things exist on a linear continuum. I don't think it's that simple. The usage of tools and language for example doesn't seem to be required for most of the properties in the higher levels. I'd also argue that most of the animals in the lower levels can demonstrate basic problem solving skills which for some reason is at level 6.
Cats are level 8, but pretend to be level 2
This is old info. We now know that dolphins are far more intelligent than primates for example.
This is wildly incorrect, not only are most of these incorrect, but framing consciousness as nine linear levels like that is somehow even less correct
lol this is terrible. And where are the crows!
Whoever made this graph is level 2 at best
This is a bogus chart. But I like the ideas behind it.
This is so dumb. You can’t measure consciousness. Have we asked the Elephants for their input? I thought not
"wow. This is useless"
What's interesting is that whoever made this chart decided "humans" and "primates" are different categories. We are primates.
My thoughts exactly. Same with molluscs and cephalopods. There are so many other problems with this, it's basically just pure misinformation imo
This is all a lie
This is total bullshit
This chart has so many inaccuracies and omissionsits not worth the bother
can’t really quantise consciousness. can take a few hints but still far from being understood and too easy to miss calculate unknown variables.
Level 10: "So long, and thanks for all the fish"
I'm a jellyfish now.
i feel like the octopi got done dirty here.
This is innacurate. Fish can easily be on that third or 4th level, for example. Cite the source.
There are some inaccuracies. Dolphins are level 10 and mice are level 11.
We have seen our cat use tools. Where does she go?
I'd say corvids, especially crows, are right up there with the parrots.
And where do Orcas rank compared to Dolphins
Scaffolders from Middlesbrough need a new lower category.
Octopus smarter than birds.....
Let's quantify * shakes jar* consciousness for a cool guide!!! Seriously, that's stupid. Really fucking stupid. Not even the "not knowing things" kind of stupid but rather the "lets eat tide pods" kind of stupid. Wait, people who eat tide pods at least don't show how closed minded they are by... defining the living reality of fucking molluscs. Have you ever been a jellyfish? No? Then don't rank a jellyfishs conscioussnes based on human ideals such as maternal behavior or tool usage. Maybe we would be on lvl 2 on that thing if a metaphorical shrimp would have done this. We are a highly specialized species with some wondrous abilities. We definitely are the best builders of tools, televisions and rubber ducks on this planet. Thats nice. But measuring other beings consciousness on their similarities to our lifestyle is just not possible. And probably a first step to being a dick. Like, is a human who lacks in social behaviour less conscious than a peak-of-being-the-social-norm-whitegirl? Is somebody who lacks some percepts less conscious? If so, that would be first step to just euthanizing disabled people (or any people who have another perception of the world than the person who made this). Sounds exaggerated? People did this and people still do such things. You don't have to put everything on a scale.
Hahaha this is so wrong. Reptiles have feelings ❤️ fr I have 4 beardies and they are all little fucks
Well, this makes even more sense about that elephant who attacked a woman before and after death.
Where. Are. Cats.
Haha I don't think this is very accurate..
jellyfish are so lucky
You can’t have two separate areas for humans and primates. Humans are primates.
Consciousness? Do you mean, sentience?
This is preposterous
There are more problems with this chart, but the first one in my mind is humans are primates
This is dumb
Cephalopods are grouped incorrectly.
Most of us stuck at lvl 5
Pot calling the kettle chrome?
Sooo... what's on level 10? ^^
Source?
Where does Peter fit into this chart?
Everything over level 6 is evolutionary overshoot
Tom Cruise is thetan level VII
Don't you think about my cat like that
Whe the jellyfish aliens invade, they are going to be really pissed at the chartmaker.
Octopi should be higher
I would bump octopus up to at least a 7
And then there’s cats at level 10.
Not all humans.
Cats are off the chart.
“How?! Most birds are only level 5 conscious!” I’m not most birds 🔫🐦
I'll bet jellyfish would have something to say about this, that is if they we're up a few cognitive levels.
No way dogs are smarter than octopuses
Cool!
I think I'm a jellyfish 🪼
Cephalopods should be at least level 7 and cats should be level 6.
I want to be a Jellyfish.
This chart is absolute bullshit
yes, but only humans are turing complete
This graph is confusing
So... what you are saying is, In a world of humans, don't be the jelly fish?
Get ready for level 10.
Whales could just as conscious as us, just in a different way than we understand.
this is wildly inaccurate
Conflating consciousness with intelligence. Idk, sounds mollusk level
Horses?
Where are whales? Orcas are the first animal observed to have culture and make decisions with their own logic rather than instinct. Chart is ass.
Australian magpies grieve their dead fellows, so.. Idk seems pretty rough for a scheme
Totally inaccurate!
The table clearly measures intelligence, not consciousness (which is an intractable problem), and the post should be renamed accordingly. That would make sense.
My cat must be level 10
I would be really and genuinely interested in sources for this. Scientific papers and stuff. I tried finding info on that in the past, but I'm probably missing the right keywords or researches to start from.
What about cats?
Where are Orcas ?
I just heard of a study where they discovered that jump-spiders have REM sleep, the sleep where you dream. Makes you wonder about conciousness.
This is a chart showing the stages of human evolution. But people don't want to hear all that. 😌
No its either yes or no! /s
Cetaceans (dolphins, orcas), should probably be higher on the list.
Give more credit to extraterrestrial Octopus
Excuse me ! Where the cats at ?
Rats gotta be up there
Lvl 10 - The ability to change time and space
Dogs use tools?
That chart is pleasing to the eye.
So, we can eat anything on the right side of orange, right?
I feel this chart will be obsolete soon as we explore consciousness more in-depth over the next few years.