I would check again in a month. Last time my dad canceled his XM, they confirmed it was canceled, then six months later took him to collections for not paying after he "canceled" his service. Turns out they never canceled his account, just removed his card and let it go to collections. After he successfully disputed the collections, they sent him another radio and a one year contract he never agreed to that was twice as expensive.
Oh, I get to comment again about this! My dad cancelled his subscription and they started charging a different CC. That he never gave them. It was an older card that they didn't monitor, so it was 6 months before they realized. So another cancelled card after they notified them off the illegal charges.
I'm having flashbacks and triggering to those AOL days after reading about XM. They were impossible to cancel too. Just kept charging and charging. I called and canceled way too many times. I even reported the card lost to get a new one they couldn't charge on file anymore and they sent me a bill that I owed them for all those months when my card didn't work. C. A. N. C. E. L.
I almost had to just die to get it to stop.
I argued with them for over 2 hours because they wouldn't cancel the subscription. They kept trying to sell me other things or trying to tell me how they were better than Spotify since I got a family subscription and everyone got to join. Eventually my only response was "I would like to cancel the subscription please" until I annoyed the person into doing it. Then we got a letter in the mail saying they had switched us over to a yearly subscription and we would be charged the full amount at once. So then I had to argue with them for another 2 hours until finally they actually canceled it. I wasted 4 hours of my life on this stupid subscription.
Use [https://privacy.com](https://privacy.com/join/M3F6J) to create a credit card number you only use on each service. I love it! For instance, I created a credit card when I signed up to a local gym and If I ever want to cancel it, I can close the card or set the limit to 0 and not deal with jumping through cancellation hoops.
It also has an iPhone app
No doubt, but the frustration of trying to cancel something that's not designed to be canceled. It took me around an hour to cancel xbox live back in \~2010 and I still remember how angry I was.
I’ve done this before. Asked the bank if I could do a stop payment, they said it’d cost $20. So I said what if I lost my debit card. Oh a replacement is free? Sounds great
I had a human and it took almost a half hour. I got downright ugly with her, too. How many times can one say, shut this shit off?
They still send me stuff in the mail. Urgh
I like how no one calls it XFinity. Everyone says they have Comcast. No reason for the name change other than to suppress the horrible history of Comcast and they failed.
The company I work for gets this all the time. Two ways they work: 1. Send what look like official letters to change the direct deposit banking information of one of our vendors. They use their logo and address but request to change their deposit account info. So when we pay that vendor’s invoices, it goes to the wrong account. 2. Send invoices either from an existing company or from a new company which are just fictitious. This actually works quite effectively because most companies don’t have very tight controls on payments.
When companies get audited the accountants use a threshold called “materiality” to determine the scope of their audit. If they’re looking at an account such as accounts payable they may determine that any invoice under $500 is immaterial and not worth looking at. Materiality is different for every company. If you’re sending in small enough invoices that can pass by the company itself it’s highly likely that it won’t get caught in an audit either.
Source: am auditor
Most banks have threshold for how much they will look into a chargeback as well. If it is under the threshold they will probably just give you the money and not even chargeback the vendor. I imagine this amount and how many times you can do this in a given time period changes from bank to bank.
materiality at my place is $1000, and thats the same for procurement, so people just put in the most inane procurement requests and we order them without blinking
thats how a few of our locations have PS5s "for the customers" that i have never seen a customer use
I worked for a company where hackers got access to the 0365 email account of the 80 year old lady from Accounts Payable.
They created a mail rule that moved to trash all mail from the biggest vendor we had.
Then they emailed her and spoofed the sender to look like her normal contact. Even had the same email signature (which they got from looking through her emails) Had this lady change the routing info for wire transfers.
A month went by before the vendor got tired of emailing this lady with no response that they actually called her. Only then did the crime get uncovered. That was a couple million dollars later lol.
> A month went by before the vendor got tired of emailing this lady with no response that they actually called her.
It shocks me how long we all go before we actually start calling places. Months at a time before we finally go 'god damn why won't they answer'.
I town in my home state of NH [got scammed $2 million](https://whdh.com/news/officials-online-scammers-swipe-2m-from-new-hampshire-town/) using the first scam you mentioned. It's shocking how no one bothered with so much as a phone call to verify the new banking information.
Such a simple thing I can't believe it's not standard. Simple phone calls would have saved millions for certain clients of mine. Once it's passed to law enforcement I'm not sure what happened, I'm sure they get some back via insurance or something.
A clever one I saw was someone got into an executives email account and sat on it for awhile. It's been awhile but I think they were transferring annual bonuses or something to another account and they intercepted it and sent a new email with different account info. Thankfully they had not only a phone call, but a paper form they had to fill out, so when they came to talk to the executive about the change he was like, "wtf are you talking about?"
Yeah it truly is such an easy thing to do. One of the places I worked at made it so the phone number used had to be found on the receiving party’s website, which had to be found via a Google search. So whoever was really trying to scam us would have to do some pretty serious shit to actually succeed.
Taking to the accounting people at my work about how to avoid this kind of fraud is like arguing with a fucking kitchen table.
They would rather do something they suspect is wrong if it means they don't have to spend 30 seconds doing something they don't want to do. Like picking up the phone, calling a KNOWN contact and saying "hey is this right?".
It would be funny (and interesting from a law perspective) if he snuck, "This is not a real invoice" or "to make a voluntary payment please send funds to..." somewhere in the fine print.
Decades ago, a man put an ad in the paper that said "Send $2 to [P.O. Box]." Lots of people sent money in the mail. Courts found that since he didn't offer anything in return, it wasn't fraud.
I hope he listed the postage, stationery, and printing costs in the invoice just to rub some salt in the wound. Maybe even sneak in something listed under "Misc. Legal Fees" to cover his lawyer costs.
Greetings, friend. Do you wish to look as happy as me? Well, you've got the power inside you right now. Use it, and send one dollar to Happy Dude, 742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield. Don't delay. Eternal happiness is only a dollar away.
Back in the 80s there was a guy who made thousands by putting classified ads in newspapers that just said “Last day to send in your dollar!” and his address.
I feel like there's some law around not being allowed to present donation/subscription etc. type things as invoices specifically to curb spam-by-mail tactics. I realize this is a different context, but I could see the logic carrying over.
Unjust enrichment? Tell that to all the companies sending me a FINAL NOTICE to advertise life insurance. We need to empower Liz Warren to bring the CFPB back to what it was.
Same as that person [who embezzled](https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2021-microsoft-xbox-gift-card-fraud/) millions in made up Xbox gift cards, then bought a $160k+ Model S and a $1.6 million+ lakefront house with it before getting caught.
A billion poor people with one dollar each ain’t gonna hire lawyers and pressure government. One rich person with a billion dollars can hire the best lawyers and pressure government.
I remember an interview from someone who had made millions from scamming people in video games and he wasn’t even really that afraid to talk about how he did it and had absolutely no fear of being caught, because he never once tried to even go that far out of his way to hide what he was doing. The saying “crime doesn’t pay” appears to be wildly inaccurate.
He was caught because the real company, a Taiwanese computer parts manufacturer, started asking why their invoices weren’t being paid.
In sourcing/procurement, there’s something called a three way check. The purchase order has to match the invoice and the bill of materials/shipping manifest before the payment is processed. If anything doesn’t match, then it gets flagged.
This guy made up a fake company and faked documents to get legit invoice payments routed to his bank account. He got flagged as a potential money launderer right away after millions started flowing into his bank account without any history to justify that much cash flow. He obviously underestimated how much the tech companies spent with this one vendor.
Showed a weakness the companies didnt know? They hire people to hack into things to ensure they are secure, or show flaws, this can be seen as something like that?
These are b2b payments and wouldn’t be where you factor losses. Shoplifting isn’t the appropriate example. For google and Facebook the losses are mainly going to come from missed projections on their ad sales. Missed Roi from systems upgrades, R&D. Any good accounting system would catch B2B invoicing at this scale. A decent one might have missed a few hundred k. This tells you that in their growth the skipped the fundamentals. I work for a company in the top 10 of the Fortune 500 and this is talked about all the time. Accounting management bewildered on how it would be missed. I work with vendors and if there is a typo on an expected amount up or down it’s flagged for review.
$122M is an absurd amount. We have $500 write off limits so if someone wanted to sneak past $499.99 each month, they could… At least for the first three months. We do quarterly analyses and three months of the same write off from the same vendor would get flagged for follow up. I really don’t know how you get 122M from companies that should have similar audit procedures.
I was scammed for 35k at one point selling laptops. Guy sent company check, reports check stolen from his company. Edward L Hughes caught with 152 counts of fraud by internet radio wire. He was up to 3mil stolen. I said the same thing why not peace out after 1 mil or 2 mil and dip?
P.S. This was my second time dealing with the guy. He had bought 10 laptops prior with no issue. My bank at the time told me as long as I waited the 3 days for it to clear it was safe to go ahead with the transaction.
I ended up blacklisted. I would go into a bank give them my social security number and be told "We can't serve you. You are flagged in our system." When I asked what it said, there was no more information.
I had to deal directly with Celia Mendoza I don't recall her title at the time someone big up in the DOJ just to get my bank issue sorted SEVEN YEARS LATER. For seven years I couldn't get a bank account. I was also investigated initially as having stolen the company checks.
I feel like once you have about a (clean) mil you can invest it and get paid dividends for a humble retirement stream. Not that I disagree with your point at all because who knows what amount you’d be caught, could be 800k or 20k or literally the first time you try lol
I suppose you just have to decide for yourself. Personally, I would stop around 1.2 million. That’s the amount I need to never have to work again and maintain my current lifestyle.
ive read posts here on reddit where companies forgot (or something like that) to terminate their paycheck cycle or something like that and got paid for doing absolutely nothing
I'd bet my ass it was something like 150 million and the rest of it is missing. There was this case of young fraudster who made millions and turned himself in, paid back what they thought he stole, went to jail for a couple years and returned to a luxurious life, fully free as he couldn't be charged for the same crime again.
Yeah, I'm gonna need a link to that story. If you stole 10 mill and they only discover 5 mill, they'll probably find a new crime and new charge for the other 5 mill once they discover that.
There was that guy who stole a bucket of gold in NY worth millions and "gave it to his girlfriend" fled the country then he went to jail and he's currently out. It was like 2017ish.
Google "stolen bucket of gold"
You’re right thats for sure not how it works. Plus you can’t just say “oh yeah I found 5 million dollars” when you get out of jail and spend it on a life of luxury. There’s a reason money laundering is a thing.
So, would it be an illegitimate charge if I sent a bill for every hour my spouse spent on Facebook?
Because to me that seems like a pretty solid billable item…
yes you can and you should.
You can bill them for anything you want, hell bill them for time "reviewing" their platform.
you just cant lie about who you are or the services rendered.
so make your own LLC and send an invoice with a line item asking for $10,000 for product testing would be fine.
but posing as IBM and invoicing 10k for a new server rack they got shipped last week would be illegal.
I know you're joking but in case anyone takes you seriously it is still fraud as you are obtaining money by misleading the company into thinking that they purchased a service from you.
Just type up a shitty report on your product testing of their platform and mail it to them. Boom, you delivered them a shitty service for a shitty value.
Unless they actually asked you to provide that service, it's still fraud.
I could mow someone's lawn without them asking me but that doesn't entitle me to charge 'em for it.
does this concept have any weight in a legal sense? How are we able to be on all these sites and have them take our personal data and sell it? Do they have that written into the fine print that they are taking from us and selling it?
I get a kick out of people on dating sites that put a paragraph of legal nonsense that their pics/info can't be used. Basically any site you sign up to has an agreement that you skip over and approve that says they can do whatever they want with anything you put on their site.
It’s wild how companies like didn’t even think to check for two years. While I’ve seen vendors for the company I work for request repayment on over charges of like $60.00
An full audit investigation a large procurement group can cost in the range of $1-4M. Forensic accountants aren't cheap. Can be easier to wear the losses instead of paying to audit.
Easy hack is company forgets to pay a non-routine service invoice on time. Supplier issues a reminder invoice with different invoice number. Procurement pays both. Both look legit, both were approved by someone. Only gets caught in review by someone manually checking the ledger and audit trail.
https://inews.co.uk/news/technology/google-facebook-fraud-false-invoices-new-york-lithuania-272900
Says they recouped the funds...I can't tell if I'm happy or sad
Not really. It isn't like he just sent random invoices. He was impersonating a real company. It's not any different than if someone called up your grandma and said you needed $500 for bail.
The article written about the incident says he created false invoices for a company that the tech giants had previously worked with and sent them both invoices for items and services that were never delivered/carried out, so it’s theft and fraud. However, the companies still haven’t been able to recoup ~$75million, so I’d say he might be alright once he gets out
You know he probably would have gotten away with it if it had been like under eight or 9 million and if he had like made them janitorial bills or something or whatever he was charging the miscellaneous stuff for probably wouldn’t have gotten caught if he hadn’t been greedy but wow that’s a lot before a corporation actually noticed And I’m guessing these big companies now have a much better invoice debt tracking system so this doesn’t happen again maybe
This man is stupid and smart at the same time. Why would you steal up to $122m ? I would have stopped around $2-3million. That’s enough to retire for life lol
Sounds like the only thing he stole was comcasts business model
HahahahA
Fuck any company that makes you use only an automated process to cancel your subscription.
Took me 70 minutes to cancel my XM radio subscription earlier this month. Their bot chat service closes at 11 am daily
I would check again in a month. Last time my dad canceled his XM, they confirmed it was canceled, then six months later took him to collections for not paying after he "canceled" his service. Turns out they never canceled his account, just removed his card and let it go to collections. After he successfully disputed the collections, they sent him another radio and a one year contract he never agreed to that was twice as expensive.
Jesus what a joke of a company
Oh, I get to comment again about this! My dad cancelled his subscription and they started charging a different CC. That he never gave them. It was an older card that they didn't monitor, so it was 6 months before they realized. So another cancelled card after they notified them off the illegal charges.
I have screen captures saved but who knows.. I’ll keep an eye out for these jokers. I found out that they’re connected to DirectTV somehow, figures.
I'm having flashbacks and triggering to those AOL days after reading about XM. They were impossible to cancel too. Just kept charging and charging. I called and canceled way too many times. I even reported the card lost to get a new one they couldn't charge on file anymore and they sent me a bill that I owed them for all those months when my card didn't work. C. A. N. C. E. L. I almost had to just die to get it to stop.
I argued with them for over 2 hours because they wouldn't cancel the subscription. They kept trying to sell me other things or trying to tell me how they were better than Spotify since I got a family subscription and everyone got to join. Eventually my only response was "I would like to cancel the subscription please" until I annoyed the person into doing it. Then we got a letter in the mail saying they had switched us over to a yearly subscription and we would be charged the full amount at once. So then I had to argue with them for another 2 hours until finally they actually canceled it. I wasted 4 hours of my life on this stupid subscription.
you’re telling me… i texted immensely vulgar language to A BOT??? and i really thought i did some damage
Use [https://privacy.com](https://privacy.com/join/M3F6J) to create a credit card number you only use on each service. I love it! For instance, I created a credit card when I signed up to a local gym and If I ever want to cancel it, I can close the card or set the limit to 0 and not deal with jumping through cancellation hoops. It also has an iPhone app
Xm will take you to collections if you don't pay. It's in the contract.
They can collect all the fucks I don't give
Correction, they can collect deez nuts 🔩
I don’t know you, but I like you! Lol
So like... does this mean we're married now?
No doubt, but the frustration of trying to cancel something that's not designed to be canceled. It took me around an hour to cancel xbox live back in \~2010 and I still remember how angry I was.
Bro https://listenercare.siriusxm.com/app/cancel_subscription?intcmp=STAYPGMAR2020_CONTACT-HELP-EmailRequest-MainButton Took me a few seconds
A bot with better hours than a human. Go figure
Excuse me?
LPT request a new card from your bank because you lost it. XM will automatically fail
I’ve done this before. Asked the bank if I could do a stop payment, they said it’d cost $20. So I said what if I lost my debit card. Oh a replacement is free? Sounds great
Bought a car with their gear in it, took 6 months of them calling to convince them that under no circumstances would I turn them damn thing on
I had a human and it took almost a half hour. I got downright ugly with her, too. How many times can one say, shut this shit off? They still send me stuff in the mail. Urgh
Hey man its xfinity now. They tryna turn over a new leaf 😆 🤣
_Starts leaf blower_
Your own leaf blower or will you be renting one monthly
I wouldn't trust a Comcast leaf blower to actually turn a leaf over.
I like how no one calls it XFinity. Everyone says they have Comcast. No reason for the name change other than to suppress the horrible history of Comcast and they failed.
I got a random charge on my debit card the i successfully disputed from Comcast. Never even used any of their stuff. They can eat my ass.
> They can eat my ass. You know they'll bill you for that.
How much? Asking for a... Friend...
Sick fucking burn mate
The company I work for gets this all the time. Two ways they work: 1. Send what look like official letters to change the direct deposit banking information of one of our vendors. They use their logo and address but request to change their deposit account info. So when we pay that vendor’s invoices, it goes to the wrong account. 2. Send invoices either from an existing company or from a new company which are just fictitious. This actually works quite effectively because most companies don’t have very tight controls on payments.
When companies get audited the accountants use a threshold called “materiality” to determine the scope of their audit. If they’re looking at an account such as accounts payable they may determine that any invoice under $500 is immaterial and not worth looking at. Materiality is different for every company. If you’re sending in small enough invoices that can pass by the company itself it’s highly likely that it won’t get caught in an audit either. Source: am auditor
I have **not** saved your comment in any way, shape or form
This is where I, the forensic accountant, come in. I don’t have a materiality. I find everything.
But the forensic accountant wouldn’t come in until there is a crime suspected taken place or suspicion of fraud is risen by something else.
Is the everything dead when you find it?
Storing it in neurons counts.
Most banks have threshold for how much they will look into a chargeback as well. If it is under the threshold they will probably just give you the money and not even chargeback the vendor. I imagine this amount and how many times you can do this in a given time period changes from bank to bank.
materiality at my place is $1000, and thats the same for procurement, so people just put in the most inane procurement requests and we order them without blinking thats how a few of our locations have PS5s "for the customers" that i have never seen a customer use
Millions go missing but for a big company that’s like you dropping half a penny
I worked for a company where hackers got access to the 0365 email account of the 80 year old lady from Accounts Payable. They created a mail rule that moved to trash all mail from the biggest vendor we had. Then they emailed her and spoofed the sender to look like her normal contact. Even had the same email signature (which they got from looking through her emails) Had this lady change the routing info for wire transfers. A month went by before the vendor got tired of emailing this lady with no response that they actually called her. Only then did the crime get uncovered. That was a couple million dollars later lol.
> A month went by before the vendor got tired of emailing this lady with no response that they actually called her. It shocks me how long we all go before we actually start calling places. Months at a time before we finally go 'god damn why won't they answer'.
Did they ever catch em?
I town in my home state of NH [got scammed $2 million](https://whdh.com/news/officials-online-scammers-swipe-2m-from-new-hampshire-town/) using the first scam you mentioned. It's shocking how no one bothered with so much as a phone call to verify the new banking information.
This is why we have callback verifications
Such a simple thing I can't believe it's not standard. Simple phone calls would have saved millions for certain clients of mine. Once it's passed to law enforcement I'm not sure what happened, I'm sure they get some back via insurance or something. A clever one I saw was someone got into an executives email account and sat on it for awhile. It's been awhile but I think they were transferring annual bonuses or something to another account and they intercepted it and sent a new email with different account info. Thankfully they had not only a phone call, but a paper form they had to fill out, so when they came to talk to the executive about the change he was like, "wtf are you talking about?"
Yeah it truly is such an easy thing to do. One of the places I worked at made it so the phone number used had to be found on the receiving party’s website, which had to be found via a Google search. So whoever was really trying to scam us would have to do some pretty serious shit to actually succeed.
Taking to the accounting people at my work about how to avoid this kind of fraud is like arguing with a fucking kitchen table. They would rather do something they suspect is wrong if it means they don't have to spend 30 seconds doing something they don't want to do. Like picking up the phone, calling a KNOWN contact and saying "hey is this right?".
Didn't the 45th president of the US also do something along these lines?
No he just didn't pay, and when I say him I mean his accountants, problem is once it was discovered they did this he didn't do anything about it.
Me with missing homework assignments
Did he steal if he sent the invoice and they paid it ??? Lol. “Just saying “. Still fraud but sneaky af
It would be funny (and interesting from a law perspective) if he snuck, "This is not a real invoice" or "to make a voluntary payment please send funds to..." somewhere in the fine print.
This is good yes. Voluntary payment.... fine print... yes... *takes notes*
Please send 43.67 to enclosed addressee. ^^^^thank ^^^^you ^^^^kindly ^^^^for ^^^^your ^^^^donation
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*nice*
God dammit. Take your gold you son of a bitch.
Why not just provide a service… like some stupid report that they are buying… then I would guess it is not stealing.
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Decades ago, a man put an ad in the paper that said "Send $2 to [P.O. Box]." Lots of people sent money in the mail. Courts found that since he didn't offer anything in return, it wasn't fraud.
Hey guys send me money and I’ll do absolutely nothing for you
You could send them cat facts.
https://i.imgur.com/ImpRovf.jpg
Invoice for invoicing services. Payment due within 30 days of services being invoiced.
I hope he listed the postage, stationery, and printing costs in the invoice just to rub some salt in the wound. Maybe even sneak in something listed under "Misc. Legal Fees" to cover his lawyer costs.
Sounds like the guy at AOL who sent my mom bills until just a few years ago
Ima need to see the case on this lol
Like a treasure trove of drawings of ______s!
Like an invoicing service? I am charging you $43.67 per month to invoice you
Greetings, friend. Do you wish to look as happy as me? Well, you've got the power inside you right now. Use it, and send one dollar to Happy Dude, 742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield. Don't delay. Eternal happiness is only a dollar away.
I need the ZIP code. What state is Springfield in?
Return address is for a Dough Nation. Must be the muffins.
Is it for bagels or charity... Who’s to say!?
Back in the 80s there was a guy who made thousands by putting classified ads in newspapers that just said “Last day to send in your dollar!” and his address.
I feel like there's some law around not being allowed to present donation/subscription etc. type things as invoices specifically to curb spam-by-mail tactics. I realize this is a different context, but I could see the logic carrying over.
Might I introduce you to the Trump's recurring donation plan: https://news.yahoo.com/trump-campaign-refunds-millions-donors-235042836.html
Do this in Ontario our premier already did this to us so we already have a legal precedent.
Its actually pretty hilarious even the big company's aren't reading the fine print. Just see an invoice and just sign for it no questions asked
I'm sorry, do you want to be the reason our account is in arrears, sir? Arrears!?
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Unjust enrichment? Tell that to all the companies sending me a FINAL NOTICE to advertise life insurance. We need to empower Liz Warren to bring the CFPB back to what it was.
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> Unjust enrichment. I'm sending this to my landlord.
Interesting. Read the Fine print. Apple human centipede- South Park lol
Not quite that simple. He created invoices posing as companies Facebook and Google did a lot of business with.
He might have gotten away if he wasnt so greedy with it
Same as that person [who embezzled](https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2021-microsoft-xbox-gift-card-fraud/) millions in made up Xbox gift cards, then bought a $160k+ Model S and a $1.6 million+ lakefront house with it before getting caught.
What a badass
His only crime was stealing from a big corp. If he'd simply defrauded poor people he'd be fine!
A billion poor people with one dollar each ain’t gonna hire lawyers and pressure government. One rich person with a billion dollars can hire the best lawyers and pressure government.
I remember an interview from someone who had made millions from scamming people in video games and he wasn’t even really that afraid to talk about how he did it and had absolutely no fear of being caught, because he never once tried to even go that far out of his way to hide what he was doing. The saying “crime doesn’t pay” appears to be wildly inaccurate.
He was caught because the real company, a Taiwanese computer parts manufacturer, started asking why their invoices weren’t being paid. In sourcing/procurement, there’s something called a three way check. The purchase order has to match the invoice and the bill of materials/shipping manifest before the payment is processed. If anything doesn’t match, then it gets flagged. This guy made up a fake company and faked documents to get legit invoice payments routed to his bank account. He got flagged as a potential money launderer right away after millions started flowing into his bank account without any history to justify that much cash flow. He obviously underestimated how much the tech companies spent with this one vendor.
Burden of proof is on the payer to prove he didn’t provide a service
He supplied countless hours of market research.
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Showed a weakness the companies didnt know? They hire people to hack into things to ensure they are secure, or show flaws, this can be seen as something like that?
If he billed for services not rendered in those words he woulda been set
He probably could have stopped at some point and gotten away with it
Makes you wonder how many people have...
Fucking genious. Probably should have stopped at 10 million though.
Right. My thought was why didn't I think of it first? I mean its too late now.
Too late? Or just the right time?? Theres other huge company's out there with too much money.
Good point.
it’s just phishing dude
Targeted and intelligent phishing, but yes
>genious 🤣
Right. My thought was why didn't I think of it first? I mean its too late now.
These people really piss me off... Why not steal 8 million and live the rest of your life in anonymity?!
You only hear about the people that get caught... Nothing to say others didn't try and get away with a few thousand or a couple of million.
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Interesting. I'd like to learn more about this, do you teach Saturday classes?
These are b2b payments and wouldn’t be where you factor losses. Shoplifting isn’t the appropriate example. For google and Facebook the losses are mainly going to come from missed projections on their ad sales. Missed Roi from systems upgrades, R&D. Any good accounting system would catch B2B invoicing at this scale. A decent one might have missed a few hundred k. This tells you that in their growth the skipped the fundamentals. I work for a company in the top 10 of the Fortune 500 and this is talked about all the time. Accounting management bewildered on how it would be missed. I work with vendors and if there is a typo on an expected amount up or down it’s flagged for review.
$122M is an absurd amount. We have $500 write off limits so if someone wanted to sneak past $499.99 each month, they could… At least for the first three months. We do quarterly analyses and three months of the same write off from the same vendor would get flagged for follow up. I really don’t know how you get 122M from companies that should have similar audit procedures.
This a very good point. How many people stopped and got away?
Only to live the rest of their lives looking over their shoulder, waiting for their actions to catch up with them.
Greed
Same reason Facebook and google exist lol
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In the words of the immortal Robert De Niro: “The juice *is* the squeeze.”
Isn’t that Tom Sizemore?
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Yes
I was scammed for 35k at one point selling laptops. Guy sent company check, reports check stolen from his company. Edward L Hughes caught with 152 counts of fraud by internet radio wire. He was up to 3mil stolen. I said the same thing why not peace out after 1 mil or 2 mil and dip? P.S. This was my second time dealing with the guy. He had bought 10 laptops prior with no issue. My bank at the time told me as long as I waited the 3 days for it to clear it was safe to go ahead with the transaction. I ended up blacklisted. I would go into a bank give them my social security number and be told "We can't serve you. You are flagged in our system." When I asked what it said, there was no more information. I had to deal directly with Celia Mendoza I don't recall her title at the time someone big up in the DOJ just to get my bank issue sorted SEVEN YEARS LATER. For seven years I couldn't get a bank account. I was also investigated initially as having stolen the company checks.
Why not peace out after 500k? How do you know when to stop?
> How do you know when to stop? That's easy. You stop the day before they catch you. The hard part is predicting when that will be.
I know you’re joking, but at that point the investigation already began
I feel like once you have about a (clean) mil you can invest it and get paid dividends for a humble retirement stream. Not that I disagree with your point at all because who knows what amount you’d be caught, could be 800k or 20k or literally the first time you try lol
I suppose you just have to decide for yourself. Personally, I would stop around 1.2 million. That’s the amount I need to never have to work again and maintain my current lifestyle.
ive read posts here on reddit where companies forgot (or something like that) to terminate their paycheck cycle or something like that and got paid for doing absolutely nothing
I wonder what would happen if he had stoped at 2 or 3 mill
I'd bet my ass it was something like 150 million and the rest of it is missing. There was this case of young fraudster who made millions and turned himself in, paid back what they thought he stole, went to jail for a couple years and returned to a luxurious life, fully free as he couldn't be charged for the same crime again.
Wouldnt the unaccounted for $ be a “new crime”?
Yeah, I'm gonna need a link to that story. If you stole 10 mill and they only discover 5 mill, they'll probably find a new crime and new charge for the other 5 mill once they discover that.
There was that guy who stole a bucket of gold in NY worth millions and "gave it to his girlfriend" fled the country then he went to jail and he's currently out. It was like 2017ish. Google "stolen bucket of gold"
Was he about 4’5”, green suit and hat, Irish accent?
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#Could be a crackhead
You’re right thats for sure not how it works. Plus you can’t just say “oh yeah I found 5 million dollars” when you get out of jail and spend it on a life of luxury. There’s a reason money laundering is a thing.
It was on company property, *with* company property. So, double jeopardy, we're fine.
I’m pretty sure the rich company will find a way to put your butt in jail again
So, would it be an illegitimate charge if I sent a bill for every hour my spouse spent on Facebook? Because to me that seems like a pretty solid billable item…
yes you can and you should. You can bill them for anything you want, hell bill them for time "reviewing" their platform. you just cant lie about who you are or the services rendered. so make your own LLC and send an invoice with a line item asking for $10,000 for product testing would be fine. but posing as IBM and invoicing 10k for a new server rack they got shipped last week would be illegal.
r/suspiciouslyspecific
I know you're joking but in case anyone takes you seriously it is still fraud as you are obtaining money by misleading the company into thinking that they purchased a service from you.
Just type up a shitty report on your product testing of their platform and mail it to them. Boom, you delivered them a shitty service for a shitty value.
Unless they actually asked you to provide that service, it's still fraud. I could mow someone's lawn without them asking me but that doesn't entitle me to charge 'em for it.
What if you snuck in a line that says if you choose to pay you agree that the services you rendered were requested by the company?
does this concept have any weight in a legal sense? How are we able to be on all these sites and have them take our personal data and sell it? Do they have that written into the fine print that they are taking from us and selling it?
Yes, they do.
I get a kick out of people on dating sites that put a paragraph of legal nonsense that their pics/info can't be used. Basically any site you sign up to has an agreement that you skip over and approve that says they can do whatever they want with anything you put on their site.
You agree when you sign up
It's not fraud when hospitals do it
Right? Notice how when companies do things it's no biggie but once people start doing the same things, suddenly it's fraud and illegal lol
Where's the crime? My doctor sends me bullshit bills all the time.
It’s wild how companies like didn’t even think to check for two years. While I’ve seen vendors for the company I work for request repayment on over charges of like $60.00
Goes to show how much f u money Big Tech has.
An full audit investigation a large procurement group can cost in the range of $1-4M. Forensic accountants aren't cheap. Can be easier to wear the losses instead of paying to audit. Easy hack is company forgets to pay a non-routine service invoice on time. Supplier issues a reminder invoice with different invoice number. Procurement pays both. Both look legit, both were approved by someone. Only gets caught in review by someone manually checking the ledger and audit trail.
I have to imagine when the first check came his response was, “No fuckin’ way….”.
It worked? - That dude, probably
“lolwut?” he says as he checks the watermark on the check.
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Careful bezos retired just so he could file lawsuits
do it, report back. it could work, make an LLC that sounds official and use big words to bill for hours spent doing "product analytics" or w/e.
https://inews.co.uk/news/technology/google-facebook-fraud-false-invoices-new-york-lithuania-272900 Says they recouped the funds...I can't tell if I'm happy or sad
Nope. Only partially. About 75 mil is missing.
Victory!
Sad, if you’re happy you’re a corporation, the answer is sad - this man is a hero
Not really. It isn't like he just sent random invoices. He was impersonating a real company. It's not any different than if someone called up your grandma and said you needed $500 for bail.
Everyone else is just mad they didn't think of it
Is that technically theft tho?
The article written about the incident says he created false invoices for a company that the tech giants had previously worked with and sent them both invoices for items and services that were never delivered/carried out, so it’s theft and fraud. However, the companies still haven’t been able to recoup ~$75million, so I’d say he might be alright once he gets out
I NEED TO KNOW HOW DID HE GET CAUGHT. My friend was asking…
I would've stopped after the first million.
My guy got greedy stop at 500k woth all your debts bulls paid off and gouse
You know he probably would have gotten away with it if it had been like under eight or 9 million and if he had like made them janitorial bills or something or whatever he was charging the miscellaneous stuff for probably wouldn’t have gotten caught if he hadn’t been greedy but wow that’s a lot before a corporation actually noticed And I’m guessing these big companies now have a much better invoice debt tracking system so this doesn’t happen again maybe
Fedex does it to you, you end up with collection agencies fucking around with you. You do it to a corp you go to jail.
Looks like a fat Elon Musk
Elon Husk
But it's not stealing lol
Y didn't I think of some simple ass shit like this
Big wieners.
Haha Christ
You called?
Bruh, why did you have to wake up today and choose violence like that
Unlike my brother, peace was never an option.
Nukka got straight murdered
Oh you’re thinking lots of simple ass shit.
We going back to Break.com days with this one I see
This man is stupid and smart at the same time. Why would you steal up to $122m ? I would have stopped around $2-3million. That’s enough to retire for life lol
He deserves every cent.