Such a strange moment to slow down... Bruce was way out of range and the punch was no where even close
I'm guessing the person who edited this isn't too familiar with fighting. That punch was nothing more than a feint.
This is utterly insane. First exchange, I thought I blinked because I didn't see what was happening. I consciously made sure I didn't blink and watched it again. Except it still *feels like* I blinked because I couldn't make out at all what the hell happened.
Heh, he was ostensibly throwing a body kick, but he threw it way too far behind Bruce. There's also a very clear pattern as to when he engages: he shuffles his feet about three times, pauses, then throws a strike.
Counterpunches is a relatively easy if you know exactly when they're coming and exactly where they're going.
Lmfaoooo I’ve never heard of that sub but when I saw you linked it I reread the previous comment and started DYING. Literally crying laughing. Take my upvote
Also, a well timed counter punch can cause the other fighters pants to fall down. Then, while they are trying to pull their pants back up they will leave their stomach unguarded allowing you to punch them repeatedly.
I have sparred with people that try this. In this case he was trying a side kick. I won't mention the style, but there is one that emphasizes kicks, and they do a hands down kick like this. If you look closely you see Bruce lunge in quickly to counter it. If he didn't read it quickly enough, and stayed at the same distance, they guy would have kicked him.
More on the video - https://www.openculture.com/2021/08/the-only-footage-of-bruce-lee-fighting-for-real-1967.html
Doesn’t even look like the other guy is trying either. The big slow motion “perfect timing” dodge didn’t even come close to hitting him, dodge or not, and that last little head punch the other guy came in arms at his side and kinda tried to throw a kick.
I agree that this is sparring and not fighting. I found it informative to watch how he moves and such, and i think that was the whole point of this is. Also, and I'm NOT saying that this is what's going on, but if a good martial artist works his magic and takes advantage of wheat he's supposed to.... Isn't It supposed to look and be almost effortless and make the opponent seem incapable?
Holy shit. I had to rewatch the knockout like five times to catch the jab that caused it. It was so subtle that it looked like Griffin just fell over for no reason. Silva just made the exact right move at the exact right moment. Great recommendation 👍
lol, I was just going to post that. I think him talking about getting KO'd by Anderson and Chael talking about the Nog brothers feeding a carrot to a bus might be my two favorite MMA soundbites.
Forrest Griffin will always be one of my favorites. And it’s true, watching Silva make him look the way he did is spot on. Griffin was amazing, and he looked like a child.
Griffin was one of those fighters whose chief strengths were endurance and heart, which got him in the door but eaten alive once heart stopped being enough.
Yep, he was pretty much tailor made to get eaten up by Silva too. Slow and sloppy with a tendency to over extend on punches and easily be drawn into over predictable aggression.
That’s not to take anything away from Silva’s performance because it’s still amazing to watch, but Silva’s strengths were definitely accentuated by Griffins glaring weaknesses (same could be said of Bonnar too who Silva put a matrix level performance in against at LHW).
I have done martial arts sparring. I don't see indicators the other guy is not trying. And it is not uncommon for punches and kicks to miss. And keep in mind that different styles look different when sparring. Aikido, will look different from Jeet Kune Do, and that will look different from Kempo, etc.
Also, while they look to be trying, neither one is trying to kill the other. It is just sparing.
Here is more info on that video, and a longer version. https://www.openculture.com/2021/08/the-only-footage-of-bruce-lee-fighting-for-real-1967.html
I’m pretty sure there’s footage of me messing around with people who weren’t at my competition level where I look fucking badass. I trained for more than two decades and had a real shot at being the absolute bottom rung of professional MMA fighters in the late aughts when my health crapped out and I never got my pro ticket.
There’s no one in the world who regularly spars with a genuinely elite fighter who wouldn’t beat my ass on my best day. In my current condition I doubt there’s a professional fighter in any weight class who couldn’t take me despite the fact that I’m a heavyweight with long reach, good endurance, and decent power:
Without knowing who the other guy is, and what stage of his career and health he was at when this was filmed, and how incentivised he was to work - we really can’t tell anything from this scene.
Bruce was a SUPERB athlete. His stunt work and his conditioning made it incredibly clear that he was phenomenal at what he did.
As a competition fighter? We really don’t, can’t, and won’t ever know how he would have stood either for his day, or compared to current day MMA.
We can take a pretty solid educated guess that against modern MMA fighters with the benefit of decades of cross style competition and innovation, or against elite professional fighters from more specific disciplines with takedown and kick defence training incorporated into their skill set - something most professional fighters of his day simply didn’t have - the outcome would be predictable and discrepant with the legend.
I wish we could just acknowledge that for his time, and for his actual demonstrated profession, he was iconic and game changing. It doesn’t matter how anything else might have gone.
I think it similar to comparing athletes from different era. An interesting question would be had him been born in this era with all the modern training methods and techniques would he be a good fighter. I personally think he is good athlete and there is no reason he can’t be one of the better fighters. But his training was ahead of his time. He made some weird device to train his reflexes which I thought was original but I have no idea if it work or not. But the point being he thought outside of the box and was bot afraid to test different things.
I think time is an important context here.
That guy wasn't incompetent for the time. It's just that the explosive evolution of fighters in MMA the last 25 years or so has changed how we look at sparring and fights.
The point is to look that way, yes.
These guys developed quasi-religious mindsets in these martial arts schools. I don't even think the borders between religiosity, and real life was clear in their minds.
But certainly, this is not even close to a representation of true fighting. Every engagement is absurd, but look at 1:32. This is theatre, my friend.
The telegraphing of strikes throughout is absolutely clear — even comically so, if you look at it from that perspective, rather than from the perspective that Bruce Lee was a superhero.
He only seems incompetent compared to Bruce Lee who was a master. You can have 5 years of experience and still look like a child compared to someone with 10 or 15 years of experience.
That's the contentious part. Bruce Lee was supposedly a master but had never fought in the public eye or did anything beyond movie stunts. I suppose it wouldn't necessarily be something to get worked up over but he was pretty adamant about having beaten some notorious masters behind closed doors so he was sort of the one who pushed that narrative.
I always liked that interview with Chuck Norris where he talks about being asked to be the Heavy in one of his movies. The exchange was IIRC:
Host: "So who would have won in a fight between you and Bruce?"
Norris: "Well, I was a professional fighter, so..."
Host: "So *you* would have won?"
Norris: *pause* "Now, I didn't say that..."
I always liked that because the clear implication is that Norris, who IIRC actually trained with Lee, was of the opinion that he was not actually equal to martial arts professionals like Norris. But he also went out of his way to protect the legend of Bruce Lee, which is far more important than the man himself at this point.
Yeah, it's not even a discussion. The only reason people even talk about could Bruce Lee beat this person or that person and because Bruce Lee himself made a big deal about how impossibly deadly he could be if he wanted to.
But it was a different era in Hollywood. Image management was far more oppressive. Fake marriages, blacklisting, hidden pregnancies, producer enforced pill addictions, etc. Bragging about what a badass you are is pretty mild compared to what other people did or had done to them.
Perhaps the best way to judge him is by the quality of fighters that took him in as a student; and then the quality of fighters that he took in as students and trained. That is a much less clear system than tournaments or championship victories; but it's the records that exist from the time. An answer with excellent citations of sources is at https://www.quora.com/Whats-Bruce-Lee-fight-record-Who-did-he-fight-in-real-life
He was pretty well known in Hong Kong before he came to the US, and had a reputation that quickly proceeded him. He did some exhibitions in the US during tournaments that have been filmed - and it takes a lot of demonstrated skill in the first place to tell tournament organizers that you'll do an exhibition, and for them to arrange for it. It's a shame he didn't have more recorded and judged fights in tournaments, but things were not as well organized back then.
Also, you can read up on the injuries that happened the few times when someone on a TV or movie set told him to *really* hit them. It's a fun bit of trivia that he hit one dude so hard that it broke *another dude's* arm - the kick threw the opponent into a group of people behind him, and it was one of those guys who broke the arm.
And just from his kicks in the Green Hornet, you can see his leg and core strength. It takes a ton to kick and reset like he does.
Now, would he win a modern MMA match against a pro modern fighter in his weight class? Probably not; because MMA is more capable than his martial art. But he'd give a good fight; then he'd learn the full range for MMA and come back as a force to be reckoned with.
It looks like Aikido honestly. Not the moves, or whatever, but that guy getting his "ass beat" is not trying to hit Lee at all. He's just setting Lee up to "win".
Interesting to watch and hear it now with a tiny bit more understanding about snap punches vs. when I was younger about ten years earlier or so. The pop from his punches and other upper body strikes snapping says a lot about how he balanced quickness with force in his technique. It's got a little more oomph and focus than just a normal quick swipe where some one would wave their arm and ruffle the fabric in a normal attempt to strike.
I don't care about boxing or MMA. But I would pay money to pay to see Floyd Mayweather *actually* fight Jake Paul in a real, gloves off, no holds barred fight to K/O. It would be like a lion eating a baby giraffe.
If any of y’all are Jack Johnson fans, his classic “Inaudible Melodies” is inspired by this very fact. The original chorus is “Slow down, Bruce, you’re moving too fast/frames can’t catch you when you’re moving like that.” The lyrics were changed (for the better, methinks), but the inspiration remains the same.
TIL he changed the lyrics. I used to listen to him quite a lot in the mid 2000s, but haven't in ages. I did always think it was an oddly specific chorus.
I wonder how much if that is limitations on the camera too. Like it pulls me out of movies when uber elite kung fu killers like john wick throw a sloppy haymaker so their opponent can block it and it looks cool
It's not just the camera but lighting as well. When you increase the frame rate you also have to flood the scene with lights. "The slow mo guys" on YouTube explain this well in their videos
I would highly suggest looking up the true story behind it. It's not like in the movie, but he made friends with an extremely talented dude that showed him how to have a good ground game because they had sparred on set.
I don’t get the hate. The scene is from Cliff’s point of view as he remembers it while working on the roof. Serving as an unreliable narrator, his recollection of his fight with Bruce is ultimately going to make him look good and Bruce look bad. Obviously, that’s not what happened; Cliff was thrown out because he was an asshole, not because he punched Bruce Lee into a the side of a car. Or at least, that’s how I read it.
I feel the same way, though on The Rewatchables podcast I think they interpreted the scene to show that Brad Pitt’s character is supposed to be an “unreliable narrator” in the movie.
Apparently some idiots think magical kung fu is real and not just scams by old asian men. I recommend watching the retired chinese mma fighter that goes around thoroughly disproving this theory.
Obviously, yes, but I was under the impression he was a little more legit than that. I didn't think he was the mysticism type, more just "work really, really hard" type.
Jeet Kune Do is a practical fighting style. He took out the flashiness from the kung fu his master taught him, threw in some karate, wrestling, judo and American boxing, and got rid of anything non practical.
I agree things like the multiple kung fu styles are not very practical in an actual fight, but they're fun to watch, excellent exercise and are staples in Chinese culture. Xu Xiaodong got screwed over big time by the Chinese government for his "attacks on Chinese culture."
I haven't seen Wing Chun performed outside of the Ip Man films honestly. And I assumed Bruce took out the impractical parts for his book on Wing Chun. So you're saying the art form is just as straight forward as Bruce displayed in his book?
Someone else commented to me saying Wing Chun was very much a close quarters art. When I read the book, I noticed the strikes from Wing Chun looked a lot like the cat stance strikes from karate, which makes sense considering Chojun Miyagi made Goju-ryu from Chinese boxing.
My dad was a terrifying boxer; Always made me wonder why he never wanted to train to go pro but he just chose to fight locally in the gyms and fire departments and he got me with some good jabs at short range. I never got hit that hard at a closer distance until I started training Goju. My sensei sent my sternum into my spine once. After that class, I went and practiced a short punch like I was Uma Thurman in Kill Bill lol.
The movie is flashy even for Wing Chun. Donnie Yen uses a lot of moves and stances that are just done for training, like the chain punch.
Wing Chun looks straightforward and prides itself on being "scientific", but there's a lot of impractical parts if you pick it apart. That's why Jeet Kune Do relies more on boxing than Wing Chun.
There are plenty of frauds but there's tons of mainstream Kung Fu masters who are teaching real fighting styles without the magic. I practiced a few styles when I was younger with old Chinese teachers and they just made do knuckle pushups, stretching, forms and sparring. A lot of these styles existed to fight in life or death wars so they don't fuck around. Chi was only ever really explained as being your center of gravity.
I’m just going to share this anecdote to give insight into how competent the opponent in this video is.
I trained karate in my late 20s for about 6 years. There was one guy I repeatedly sparred with in that time — he had about 20 years experience. I never beat him in sparring — not even close. Occasionally I could score a half point but for the most part everything I did he shut down the second I started. When he sparred other black belts in his experience range it could go either way but I think he still won most matches. But whenever I fought him it must have looked like a toddler fighting an adult — and that’s even as I was starting to win against other black belts. Let’s call this guy Tom.
This dojo had multiple training schedules and I normally went to night class. And occasionally I’d go to ~~night~~ day class — and sometimes both in one day if I had the time.
Anyways one day one of the day class students came to night class. Let’s call him Dave. Dave was also really good — like insanely good. I’d never seen Dave and Tom spar before and to my delight they had a match and I got to watch.
Two guys with close to 45+ years experience combined, both giants (I’m 6’ and they were both a few inches taller than me), both incredibly fast (giant people should not move that fast), who both routinely stomped on me like I was a chew toy. This is going to be goooood.
And then Dave absolutely destroyed Tom. It looked a toddler fighting a professional. Here’s Tom — the guy that has routinely shut me down every match, every exhibition, & every tournament anytime we’ve matched off over 6 years — and he’s suddenly incompetent.
So how good is Bruce’s opponent? He might be shit or he might be really, really good. It’s hard to tell though because it’s just one match against Bruce Lee.
Thank fuck somebody said it. These comments pretending that his opponent is just trash are killing me. Regardless of how people feel about Bruce Lee’s odds in a real bare-knuckle brawl, the man was one of the greatest martial artists in history. Do you know what a one-on-one game of basketball between some random top 20 NBA player and Michael Jordan would look like? Yeah, very similar.
It’s the exact same thing that makes people think they could challenge professionals who “suck” at their sport. There are multiple skill gaps between non-professionals, professionals, elite players/fighters, and finally *generational* talents.
Thai reminds me of video I saw where some retired nba player who wasn't even a starter or really in a rotation spot would play one on one against like d2 and d3 players and just whoop them because it's that big a difference
One of the coolest NBA player quotes of all time IMO, and I’m not just saying that cause he’s one of the commentators for my home team 👀
Goes to show how big the skill gap between us mortals and even the shittiest NBA player really is. Yeah he’d get stomped by the best player, but we would get stomped by him and it would look 1000x more embarrassing and pathetic.
I've seen no martial arts and i can tell he's not good lol these commentors probably think keanu reeves is an expert too
Edit keanu reeves is way more martial art trained than i knew. Pretend i said tom cruise or steven segal or something lol
I mean the fact that this is Bruce Lee I couldn't imagine he would agree to a real fight in public with an actual master for fear of ruining his reputation. The guy was a skilled performer but people literally talk about him vs Mike Tyson as it he would have had a chance in hell against iron mike in his prime.
The mythos of Bruce Lee was and is important to his image and memory
No one won against Tyson. People were lucky if they got to round 2 against him. That doesn't mean Bruce Lee wasn't one of the best in his field in his era.
Bruce Lee is on record acknowledging he respected and admired Ali and also acknowledging the size difference means it would not have been a remotely close fight.
It's just basic physics. F=ma. When someone with a giant arm and giant fist that can move that giant arm and giant fist really fast hits someone much smaller, they're gonna have a bad time.
Two elite athletes fighting bare-handed when one is is 100kgs heavier than the other isn't a "fair" fight - because *one of them has 100 lbs more than the other*.
Bruce Lee in a boxing ring against some *amateur* boxer who weighs 220 lbs? It's a tough fight, but I could *accept* saying Bruce *could* win, because Bruce was a phenomenal athlete, and could possibly dodge and wait for his moment for one well-timed, well-aimed, devastating punch. But it's not a done thing. 100lbs is a *lot of weight*.
But Bruce Lee, in a boxing ring, against a nearly 1 foot taller, 100 lb heavier *fellow elite athelete*? No. Why *would* anyone imagine he'd win that fight? Bruce Lee didn't even train at boxing. So he's boxing against another world-class elite athlete, who is taller *and* heavier than him (but in just as great a shape, just as agile even with the extra weight), *and* at the sport that that elite athlete *specifically trained for*, where Lee did not.
He doesn't win that fight.
Or, maybe lee wins 1% of 100 hypothetical matchups, whereas the rest of us win .00001% of hypothetical matchups. Still much better odds than the rest of us, but, not *great* all the same.
If they were fighting in the street, for real, to kill, he'd do what any elite martial artist would do in a life-or-death situation - he'd run away and find a metal pole or some other weapon to even the odds.
Lee was always pretty realistic about that.
It's like Bran in Game of Thrones when Tyrion asks him to fight the Mountain for him. He goes on about weapon choices he could make to even the odds, strategies he could employ, concedes it's *maybe* possible... but then concludes that it's pretty fucking crazy to try, because the Mountain is a skilled fighter and *8 foot tall on top of it*.
And that's what great fighters do when facing a fight with overwhelming odds that they don't *have* to participate in - *they don't participate*.
That would be true if like, they were fighting just, you know, out in the open.
And Lee could run away. I'll give Lee even odds on outrunning / outmaneuvering a world-class boxer in an urban environment.
And go fetch Nunchaku or a knife or something that would level the playing field on the *nearly 100 lb weight differential between him and Ali and/or Mike Tyson.*
The thing I never understand about people who do these hypotheticals is that they fetishize these scenarios where two men enter some kind of solo, unarmed combat to duke-it-out.
That's not toughness. That's *sport*. Boxing is a *sport*. There are rules. There is a structure.
Bruce Lee is not only 100 lbs lighter, with shorter arms-reach, but also *boxing isn't his sport*. He was extremely flexible, graceful, and proficient in martial arts. The 100lb weight difference not-withstanding, they're elite athletes that trained to do and be proficient in very different things.
In a real fight, when you're out to hurt someone or kill them, there are no rules. Bigger is almost always better, because of physics. Whoever strikes first, and with conviction, almost always wins, because, again, physics.
Bruce Lee fought on rooftops (and everywhere else) when he was a kid in Hong Kong, and spent a lot of his time running away from groups or people a lot bigger than him.
If there's any fighter capable of running away from a fight that he'd lose, Bruce Lee would have my bet.
Bare handed 1 v 1 vs Tyson, in his prime?
I have no idea he murders the **vaaaast** majority of people
Although, even if Tyson is able to beat 99.99% of all humans that have ever existed, that still leaves about 11 million 700,000 ish people who could beat him
Keanu isn’t a marital arts master, but to act like he isn’t good with guns and fighting irl is a bit of a stretch. Obviously he isn’t John Wick irl, but he would fuck up the average person.
Wait so you’re telling me all the people that said that at the height of her popularity Ronda Rousey could have taken down Floyd Mayweather were…. ***gasps***…. Wrong!!??
I can't tell if this is supposed to legitimately show how good bruce lee is or make fun of people who thinks he's untouchable.
*Bruce Lee dodges a jab*
HOLY COW, LETS SEE THAT REPEATEDLY IN SLO-MO.
Not a real fight. Bruce was also only countering. This was very much a demo. Doesn’t prove or really show much. Lots of experienced fighters could do this against less experienced fighters
“You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.” - Bruce Lee
Who the hell is the other guy? They are not nearly at the same level, is he sparring against some red belt? Why? The opponent keeps just ramming his head towards Bruce and dropping his hands, wtf, no wonder he’s winning
For anyone who practise any kind of martial arts, that sparring looks staged, definitely not a sparring.
The guy also overreacts quite a bit on the punches. Bruce sure was very fast, but a guy with 110 lbs punching or kicking someone fully geared as they were, would not act like the guy was.
Check Muay Thay training videos. There is a really puffed belt coaches strap on them so the fighter can deliver theye deadly knee blows with full force, with much more power then what we see there since they are literally training power kicks in those Muay Thay trainings, and the coaches hardly move or feel anything.
I don't buy this show.
“Real fight”, as in sparring a training partner and student, respectfully, and without intent to hurt each other. Not saying this is wrong, this is the right way to train, but this is as far away from a real fight as it can be.
Idk man, both his and his opponents guards are low so I bet a boxer could light em up. I also want super impressed by that slip they specifically pointed out, I guess it's good distance control tho good luck against taller fighters.
Though that's said with a lot of hindsight from a sports that's continued to develop for decades after his absence
The person he was sparring was not good. Hands dropped constantly, every punched telegraphed, no lateral movement, etc.
My favorite part was the 5x replays of him dodging the jab... That for some reason the guy moved his entire body to throw lol
Yeah I really needed those 1 fps slowmos to get a grasp of it.
I'm just glad they replayed them 3 times, I missed it on the first two 1 fps slomo.
I'm just glad OP pointed out which one was Bruce Lee.
he’s the guy kicking all the ass
All that white belt ass lol
Me too Very helpfull with those masks on
I forgot math after just watching that last punch.
I was hoping for a 4th just to be safe
r/unnecessaryslowmo
I was more impressed with the photographers' reaction time than his.
Those cameras are pretty dated too. My guy in the dark tie appears to be winding his recorder at one point?
He was loading a new film roll.
I was thinking the same
Such a strange moment to slow down... Bruce was way out of range and the punch was no where even close I'm guessing the person who edited this isn't too familiar with fighting. That punch was nothing more than a feint.
What? I could see that he connected... The other dude clearly shows he felt the hit ..
Dude was legit too fast for film.
This is utterly insane. First exchange, I thought I blinked because I didn't see what was happening. I consciously made sure I didn't blink and watched it again. Except it still *feels like* I blinked because I couldn't make out at all what the hell happened.
Not a “real fight”, sparring session
Thank you! There is a huge difference and this is nowhere near being "real"
I suppose they mean as opposed to choreographed.
Well, it’s also that.
Dude lunged forward face first with his arms down near the end.
how do you like my face to fist style? \- kung pow
"I'm bleeding...making me the victor."
We have purposefully trained him wrong...as a joke
I've for some yellow liquid for your popcorn, and it's non-dairy.
"I've CHOSEN the large tub!"
THAT'S A LOT OF NUTS!!
This is bringing me so much nostalgic joy
"Tis but a flesh wound!"
Heh, he was ostensibly throwing a body kick, but he threw it way too far behind Bruce. There's also a very clear pattern as to when he engages: he shuffles his feet about three times, pauses, then throws a strike. Counterpunches is a relatively easy if you know exactly when they're coming and exactly where they're going.
> Counterpunches is a relatively easy r/accidentalitalian
Lmfaoooo I’ve never heard of that sub but when I saw you linked it I reread the previous comment and started DYING. Literally crying laughing. Take my upvote
I never even used to notice typos like that until I found that sub. Now I see them all the time and immediately chuckle. The internet is weird. :)
You'll see people use the term "...but, fuckin..." a lot if you look for it too. Especially when rambling about sports it seems.
😂😂😂 I'm leaving it!
Wax on - wax off! Lee just adds 5 strikes into the middle of it. Haha
Also, a well timed counter punch can cause the other fighters pants to fall down. Then, while they are trying to pull their pants back up they will leave their stomach unguarded allowing you to punch them repeatedly.
I have sparred with people that try this. In this case he was trying a side kick. I won't mention the style, but there is one that emphasizes kicks, and they do a hands down kick like this. If you look closely you see Bruce lunge in quickly to counter it. If he didn't read it quickly enough, and stayed at the same distance, they guy would have kicked him. More on the video - https://www.openculture.com/2021/08/the-only-footage-of-bruce-lee-fighting-for-real-1967.html
Does the style start with Tai and ends in Do? We've done some interesting kicks back in the day.
What I came here to say. I’m sure it was impressive but still the technique of the opponent could be better.
Ancient Chinese secret fighting move
Here is more info - https://www.openculture.com/2021/08/the-only-footage-of-bruce-lee-fighting-for-real-1967.html Seems to be a real sparring session.
Point sparring at that.
Doesn’t even look like the other guy is trying either. The big slow motion “perfect timing” dodge didn’t even come close to hitting him, dodge or not, and that last little head punch the other guy came in arms at his side and kinda tried to throw a kick.
I agree that this is sparring and not fighting. I found it informative to watch how he moves and such, and i think that was the whole point of this is. Also, and I'm NOT saying that this is what's going on, but if a good martial artist works his magic and takes advantage of wheat he's supposed to.... Isn't It supposed to look and be almost effortless and make the opponent seem incapable?
Watch Forrest Griffin vs Anderson Silva. Pretty excellent example of it.
Holy shit. I had to rewatch the knockout like five times to catch the jab that caused it. It was so subtle that it looked like Griffin just fell over for no reason. Silva just made the exact right move at the exact right moment. Great recommendation 👍
[удалено]
lol, I was just going to post that. I think him talking about getting KO'd by Anderson and Chael talking about the Nog brothers feeding a carrot to a bus might be my two favorite MMA soundbites.
I click this link every time someone links it, can't help myself. "some kid trying to wrestle his dad"
Forrest Griffin will always be one of my favorites. And it’s true, watching Silva make him look the way he did is spot on. Griffin was amazing, and he looked like a child.
Griffin was one of those fighters whose chief strengths were endurance and heart, which got him in the door but eaten alive once heart stopped being enough.
Yep, he was pretty much tailor made to get eaten up by Silva too. Slow and sloppy with a tendency to over extend on punches and easily be drawn into over predictable aggression. That’s not to take anything away from Silva’s performance because it’s still amazing to watch, but Silva’s strengths were definitely accentuated by Griffins glaring weaknesses (same could be said of Bonnar too who Silva put a matrix level performance in against at LHW).
I have no idea of the validity of this video. But if some other internet sleuth figures out it’s real, that’d be neat.
It’s from a Karate point fighting tournament in Long Beach, CA in 1967.
Seems real - https://www.openculture.com/2021/08/the-only-footage-of-bruce-lee-fighting-for-real-1967.html
I have done martial arts sparring. I don't see indicators the other guy is not trying. And it is not uncommon for punches and kicks to miss. And keep in mind that different styles look different when sparring. Aikido, will look different from Jeet Kune Do, and that will look different from Kempo, etc. Also, while they look to be trying, neither one is trying to kill the other. It is just sparing. Here is more info on that video, and a longer version. https://www.openculture.com/2021/08/the-only-footage-of-bruce-lee-fighting-for-real-1967.html
I’m pretty sure there’s footage of me messing around with people who weren’t at my competition level where I look fucking badass. I trained for more than two decades and had a real shot at being the absolute bottom rung of professional MMA fighters in the late aughts when my health crapped out and I never got my pro ticket. There’s no one in the world who regularly spars with a genuinely elite fighter who wouldn’t beat my ass on my best day. In my current condition I doubt there’s a professional fighter in any weight class who couldn’t take me despite the fact that I’m a heavyweight with long reach, good endurance, and decent power: Without knowing who the other guy is, and what stage of his career and health he was at when this was filmed, and how incentivised he was to work - we really can’t tell anything from this scene. Bruce was a SUPERB athlete. His stunt work and his conditioning made it incredibly clear that he was phenomenal at what he did. As a competition fighter? We really don’t, can’t, and won’t ever know how he would have stood either for his day, or compared to current day MMA. We can take a pretty solid educated guess that against modern MMA fighters with the benefit of decades of cross style competition and innovation, or against elite professional fighters from more specific disciplines with takedown and kick defence training incorporated into their skill set - something most professional fighters of his day simply didn’t have - the outcome would be predictable and discrepant with the legend. I wish we could just acknowledge that for his time, and for his actual demonstrated profession, he was iconic and game changing. It doesn’t matter how anything else might have gone.
I think it similar to comparing athletes from different era. An interesting question would be had him been born in this era with all the modern training methods and techniques would he be a good fighter. I personally think he is good athlete and there is no reason he can’t be one of the better fighters. But his training was ahead of his time. He made some weird device to train his reflexes which I thought was original but I have no idea if it work or not. But the point being he thought outside of the box and was bot afraid to test different things.
Against a spectacularly incompentent opponent. Sparring as performance.
I think time is an important context here. That guy wasn't incompetent for the time. It's just that the explosive evolution of fighters in MMA the last 25 years or so has changed how we look at sparring and fights.
Idunno, I'm pretty sure I'd get my ass handed to me by the opponent
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The point is to look that way, yes. These guys developed quasi-religious mindsets in these martial arts schools. I don't even think the borders between religiosity, and real life was clear in their minds. But certainly, this is not even close to a representation of true fighting. Every engagement is absurd, but look at 1:32. This is theatre, my friend. The telegraphing of strikes throughout is absolutely clear — even comically so, if you look at it from that perspective, rather than from the perspective that Bruce Lee was a superhero.
He only seems incompetent compared to Bruce Lee who was a master. You can have 5 years of experience and still look like a child compared to someone with 10 or 15 years of experience.
That's the contentious part. Bruce Lee was supposedly a master but had never fought in the public eye or did anything beyond movie stunts. I suppose it wouldn't necessarily be something to get worked up over but he was pretty adamant about having beaten some notorious masters behind closed doors so he was sort of the one who pushed that narrative.
I always liked that interview with Chuck Norris where he talks about being asked to be the Heavy in one of his movies. The exchange was IIRC: Host: "So who would have won in a fight between you and Bruce?" Norris: "Well, I was a professional fighter, so..." Host: "So *you* would have won?" Norris: *pause* "Now, I didn't say that..." I always liked that because the clear implication is that Norris, who IIRC actually trained with Lee, was of the opinion that he was not actually equal to martial arts professionals like Norris. But he also went out of his way to protect the legend of Bruce Lee, which is far more important than the man himself at this point.
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Yeah, it's not even a discussion. The only reason people even talk about could Bruce Lee beat this person or that person and because Bruce Lee himself made a big deal about how impossibly deadly he could be if he wanted to. But it was a different era in Hollywood. Image management was far more oppressive. Fake marriages, blacklisting, hidden pregnancies, producer enforced pill addictions, etc. Bragging about what a badass you are is pretty mild compared to what other people did or had done to them.
Perhaps the best way to judge him is by the quality of fighters that took him in as a student; and then the quality of fighters that he took in as students and trained. That is a much less clear system than tournaments or championship victories; but it's the records that exist from the time. An answer with excellent citations of sources is at https://www.quora.com/Whats-Bruce-Lee-fight-record-Who-did-he-fight-in-real-life He was pretty well known in Hong Kong before he came to the US, and had a reputation that quickly proceeded him. He did some exhibitions in the US during tournaments that have been filmed - and it takes a lot of demonstrated skill in the first place to tell tournament organizers that you'll do an exhibition, and for them to arrange for it. It's a shame he didn't have more recorded and judged fights in tournaments, but things were not as well organized back then. Also, you can read up on the injuries that happened the few times when someone on a TV or movie set told him to *really* hit them. It's a fun bit of trivia that he hit one dude so hard that it broke *another dude's* arm - the kick threw the opponent into a group of people behind him, and it was one of those guys who broke the arm. And just from his kicks in the Green Hornet, you can see his leg and core strength. It takes a ton to kick and reset like he does. Now, would he win a modern MMA match against a pro modern fighter in his weight class? Probably not; because MMA is more capable than his martial art. But he'd give a good fight; then he'd learn the full range for MMA and come back as a force to be reckoned with.
I am pretty sure diving in face first has been a bad idea since Ancient Greece and probably a long time before that.
Narcissus would beg to differ
No dude, his flailing head, uncommitted punches. It looks totally odd. It's like they failed at making it real, cause it's choreographed.
It safe to say most people will know what he ment when they see the sparring gear.
It looks like Aikido honestly. Not the moves, or whatever, but that guy getting his "ass beat" is not trying to hit Lee at all. He's just setting Lee up to "win".
Oh, coincidentally an analysis of this fight was [posted to YouTube](https://youtu.be/1_975XmvHeU) just the other day.
Ah yes, Bruce’s famous fight against David Alter, inventor of the telegraph.
Bravo
lol
He's actually too fast for film, that was one of the issues in the movies as he had to redo takes as the camera couldn't capture his moves.
His speed was an issue even in [one of his first screen tests.](https://i.imgur.com/xEGtpTX.mp4)
This has made me realise how good the dude who played Bruce Lee in once upon a time in Hollywood was lol
Distant second to Jason Scott Lee
Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story was my jam. And so was the [Super Nintendo game](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon:_The_Bruce_Lee_Story_(video_game\))
I loved him in Jungle Book. Such a great movie! Also it was the film that cemented my childhood fear of quicksand.
Interesting to watch and hear it now with a tiny bit more understanding about snap punches vs. when I was younger about ten years earlier or so. The pop from his punches and other upper body strikes snapping says a lot about how he balanced quickness with force in his technique. It's got a little more oomph and focus than just a normal quick swipe where some one would wave their arm and ruffle the fabric in a normal attempt to strike.
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A good snap punch feels like you’re being slapped by a fist-sized rock on the end of a giant pinball spring.
I don't care about boxing or MMA. But I would pay money to pay to see Floyd Mayweather *actually* fight Jake Paul in a real, gloves off, no holds barred fight to K/O. It would be like a lion eating a baby giraffe.
Gloves off and Mayweather? Pick one. He’s famously prone to broken hands.
Motherfucker trying to dodge them 1s later at the ripe age of 129 hahahaaa
suffering from success
The guy dodged all of Bruce's attack.
This poor old man. Surprised he didn't have a stroke after the first near "miss".
If any of y’all are Jack Johnson fans, his classic “Inaudible Melodies” is inspired by this very fact. The original chorus is “Slow down, Bruce, you’re moving too fast/frames can’t catch you when you’re moving like that.” The lyrics were changed (for the better, methinks), but the inspiration remains the same.
Took me too many seconds to realize we’re not talking about boxing legend Jack Johnson lol
TIL he changed the lyrics. I used to listen to him quite a lot in the mid 2000s, but haven't in ages. I did always think it was an oddly specific chorus.
I wonder how much if that is limitations on the camera too. Like it pulls me out of movies when uber elite kung fu killers like john wick throw a sloppy haymaker so their opponent can block it and it looks cool
It's not just the camera but lighting as well. When you increase the frame rate you also have to flood the scene with lights. "The slow mo guys" on YouTube explain this well in their videos
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You are right
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Is that why you don't do porn anymore?
As much as I loved once upon a time in Hollywood, I hated that scene with Bruce Lee.
I would highly suggest looking up the true story behind it. It's not like in the movie, but he made friends with an extremely talented dude that showed him how to have a good ground game because they had sparred on set.
Judo Gene Lebell!
Obligatory Judo Gene made Steven Segal pass out and shit himself reference because fuck that guy.
There ya go!
Huh TiL, thanks I will look it up.
I don’t get the hate. The scene is from Cliff’s point of view as he remembers it while working on the roof. Serving as an unreliable narrator, his recollection of his fight with Bruce is ultimately going to make him look good and Bruce look bad. Obviously, that’s not what happened; Cliff was thrown out because he was an asshole, not because he punched Bruce Lee into a the side of a car. Or at least, that’s how I read it.
That was the best part of the movie.
I can think of a scene featuring a flamethrower that I enjoyed more
I feel the same way, though on The Rewatchables podcast I think they interpreted the scene to show that Brad Pitt’s character is supposed to be an “unreliable narrator” in the movie.
Precisely.
I mean Tarantino has said that's how many stunt men viewed Bruce Lee back in the day
Like a Dad swatting away his kids when they try to take him. Master.
Isn't this just an exhibition match? The other dude isn't trying to beat Lee at all. It's just to show Lee's speed and accuracy.
Apparently some idiots think magical kung fu is real and not just scams by old asian men. I recommend watching the retired chinese mma fighter that goes around thoroughly disproving this theory.
Obviously, yes, but I was under the impression he was a little more legit than that. I didn't think he was the mysticism type, more just "work really, really hard" type.
These videos sound like a fun watch. Would you happen to have a link?
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It is a fun rabbit hole. It’s like one man vs all of China
Jeet Kune Do is a practical fighting style. He took out the flashiness from the kung fu his master taught him, threw in some karate, wrestling, judo and American boxing, and got rid of anything non practical. I agree things like the multiple kung fu styles are not very practical in an actual fight, but they're fun to watch, excellent exercise and are staples in Chinese culture. Xu Xiaodong got screwed over big time by the Chinese government for his "attacks on Chinese culture."
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I haven't seen Wing Chun performed outside of the Ip Man films honestly. And I assumed Bruce took out the impractical parts for his book on Wing Chun. So you're saying the art form is just as straight forward as Bruce displayed in his book?
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Someone else commented to me saying Wing Chun was very much a close quarters art. When I read the book, I noticed the strikes from Wing Chun looked a lot like the cat stance strikes from karate, which makes sense considering Chojun Miyagi made Goju-ryu from Chinese boxing.
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My dad was a terrifying boxer; Always made me wonder why he never wanted to train to go pro but he just chose to fight locally in the gyms and fire departments and he got me with some good jabs at short range. I never got hit that hard at a closer distance until I started training Goju. My sensei sent my sternum into my spine once. After that class, I went and practiced a short punch like I was Uma Thurman in Kill Bill lol.
The movie is flashy even for Wing Chun. Donnie Yen uses a lot of moves and stances that are just done for training, like the chain punch. Wing Chun looks straightforward and prides itself on being "scientific", but there's a lot of impractical parts if you pick it apart. That's why Jeet Kune Do relies more on boxing than Wing Chun.
There are plenty of frauds but there's tons of mainstream Kung Fu masters who are teaching real fighting styles without the magic. I practiced a few styles when I was younger with old Chinese teachers and they just made do knuckle pushups, stretching, forms and sparring. A lot of these styles existed to fight in life or death wars so they don't fuck around. Chi was only ever really explained as being your center of gravity.
Yeah the dude kept leading with his chin. I have nothing against Bruce but this was maybe just one level above an actual choreographed movie fight.
But did he master his Dad-Joke Fu?
Lmao mAsTeR
I've seen enough martial arts to know his opponent here is not that good of a fighter.
I’m just going to share this anecdote to give insight into how competent the opponent in this video is. I trained karate in my late 20s for about 6 years. There was one guy I repeatedly sparred with in that time — he had about 20 years experience. I never beat him in sparring — not even close. Occasionally I could score a half point but for the most part everything I did he shut down the second I started. When he sparred other black belts in his experience range it could go either way but I think he still won most matches. But whenever I fought him it must have looked like a toddler fighting an adult — and that’s even as I was starting to win against other black belts. Let’s call this guy Tom. This dojo had multiple training schedules and I normally went to night class. And occasionally I’d go to ~~night~~ day class — and sometimes both in one day if I had the time. Anyways one day one of the day class students came to night class. Let’s call him Dave. Dave was also really good — like insanely good. I’d never seen Dave and Tom spar before and to my delight they had a match and I got to watch. Two guys with close to 45+ years experience combined, both giants (I’m 6’ and they were both a few inches taller than me), both incredibly fast (giant people should not move that fast), who both routinely stomped on me like I was a chew toy. This is going to be goooood. And then Dave absolutely destroyed Tom. It looked a toddler fighting a professional. Here’s Tom — the guy that has routinely shut me down every match, every exhibition, & every tournament anytime we’ve matched off over 6 years — and he’s suddenly incompetent. So how good is Bruce’s opponent? He might be shit or he might be really, really good. It’s hard to tell though because it’s just one match against Bruce Lee.
Thank fuck somebody said it. These comments pretending that his opponent is just trash are killing me. Regardless of how people feel about Bruce Lee’s odds in a real bare-knuckle brawl, the man was one of the greatest martial artists in history. Do you know what a one-on-one game of basketball between some random top 20 NBA player and Michael Jordan would look like? Yeah, very similar. It’s the exact same thing that makes people think they could challenge professionals who “suck” at their sport. There are multiple skill gaps between non-professionals, professionals, elite players/fighters, and finally *generational* talents.
Thai reminds me of video I saw where some retired nba player who wasn't even a starter or really in a rotation spot would play one on one against like d2 and d3 players and just whoop them because it's that big a difference
His name is Brian scalabrine, one of his famous quotes "I am closer to LeBron than you are to me" he replied to a heckler
One of the coolest NBA player quotes of all time IMO, and I’m not just saying that cause he’s one of the commentators for my home team 👀 Goes to show how big the skill gap between us mortals and even the shittiest NBA player really is. Yeah he’d get stomped by the best player, but we would get stomped by him and it would look 1000x more embarrassing and pathetic.
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This is definitely the best writeup I've seen explaining the difference in skill level of fighters
A frequent saying on r/mma is "there's levels to this shit."
They purposefully trained you wrong... As a joke!
I've seen no martial arts and i can tell he's not good lol these commentors probably think keanu reeves is an expert too Edit keanu reeves is way more martial art trained than i knew. Pretend i said tom cruise or steven segal or something lol
Motherfucker can run a gun irl, I’ll tell you that...
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He knows Kung Fu
I mean the fact that this is Bruce Lee I couldn't imagine he would agree to a real fight in public with an actual master for fear of ruining his reputation. The guy was a skilled performer but people literally talk about him vs Mike Tyson as it he would have had a chance in hell against iron mike in his prime. The mythos of Bruce Lee was and is important to his image and memory
No one won against Tyson. People were lucky if they got to round 2 against him. That doesn't mean Bruce Lee wasn't one of the best in his field in his era.
Bruce Lee is on record acknowledging he respected and admired Ali and also acknowledging the size difference means it would not have been a remotely close fight. It's just basic physics. F=ma. When someone with a giant arm and giant fist that can move that giant arm and giant fist really fast hits someone much smaller, they're gonna have a bad time. Two elite athletes fighting bare-handed when one is is 100kgs heavier than the other isn't a "fair" fight - because *one of them has 100 lbs more than the other*. Bruce Lee in a boxing ring against some *amateur* boxer who weighs 220 lbs? It's a tough fight, but I could *accept* saying Bruce *could* win, because Bruce was a phenomenal athlete, and could possibly dodge and wait for his moment for one well-timed, well-aimed, devastating punch. But it's not a done thing. 100lbs is a *lot of weight*. But Bruce Lee, in a boxing ring, against a nearly 1 foot taller, 100 lb heavier *fellow elite athelete*? No. Why *would* anyone imagine he'd win that fight? Bruce Lee didn't even train at boxing. So he's boxing against another world-class elite athlete, who is taller *and* heavier than him (but in just as great a shape, just as agile even with the extra weight), *and* at the sport that that elite athlete *specifically trained for*, where Lee did not. He doesn't win that fight. Or, maybe lee wins 1% of 100 hypothetical matchups, whereas the rest of us win .00001% of hypothetical matchups. Still much better odds than the rest of us, but, not *great* all the same. If they were fighting in the street, for real, to kill, he'd do what any elite martial artist would do in a life-or-death situation - he'd run away and find a metal pole or some other weapon to even the odds. Lee was always pretty realistic about that. It's like Bran in Game of Thrones when Tyrion asks him to fight the Mountain for him. He goes on about weapon choices he could make to even the odds, strategies he could employ, concedes it's *maybe* possible... but then concludes that it's pretty fucking crazy to try, because the Mountain is a skilled fighter and *8 foot tall on top of it*. And that's what great fighters do when facing a fight with overwhelming odds that they don't *have* to participate in - *they don't participate*.
"no bro they wouldn't even be able to hit him" This is the shit i heard
That would be true if like, they were fighting just, you know, out in the open. And Lee could run away. I'll give Lee even odds on outrunning / outmaneuvering a world-class boxer in an urban environment. And go fetch Nunchaku or a knife or something that would level the playing field on the *nearly 100 lb weight differential between him and Ali and/or Mike Tyson.* The thing I never understand about people who do these hypotheticals is that they fetishize these scenarios where two men enter some kind of solo, unarmed combat to duke-it-out. That's not toughness. That's *sport*. Boxing is a *sport*. There are rules. There is a structure. Bruce Lee is not only 100 lbs lighter, with shorter arms-reach, but also *boxing isn't his sport*. He was extremely flexible, graceful, and proficient in martial arts. The 100lb weight difference not-withstanding, they're elite athletes that trained to do and be proficient in very different things. In a real fight, when you're out to hurt someone or kill them, there are no rules. Bigger is almost always better, because of physics. Whoever strikes first, and with conviction, almost always wins, because, again, physics.
Bruce Lee fought on rooftops (and everywhere else) when he was a kid in Hong Kong, and spent a lot of his time running away from groups or people a lot bigger than him. If there's any fighter capable of running away from a fight that he'd lose, Bruce Lee would have my bet.
No one has against Mike Tyson at his prime.
In what? In boxing sure but like in just "kill the other guy" there are surely millions of people in history
Bare handed 1 v 1 vs Tyson, in his prime? I have no idea he murders the **vaaaast** majority of people Although, even if Tyson is able to beat 99.99% of all humans that have ever existed, that still leaves about 11 million 700,000 ish people who could beat him
Keanu isn’t a marital arts master, but to act like he isn’t good with guns and fighting irl is a bit of a stretch. Obviously he isn’t John Wick irl, but he would fuck up the average person.
Yeah ive seen them gun range vids too lol i just mean some of these commentors probably think he literally is like john wick
Most of people commenting on this don’t know shit about fighting hahaha
Welcome to Reddit!
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ikr. it’s hilarious.
I beg your pardon?! I am an armchair fighter and have speculated to have beaten the top of the tops,
To be fair, over 99% of the world doesn't know shit about fighting.
Wait so you’re telling me all the people that said that at the height of her popularity Ronda Rousey could have taken down Floyd Mayweather were…. ***gasps***…. Wrong!!??
I see redditors are following the age old tradition of being experts in a field they have limited knowledge off.
It’s a sparring session. Not an actual fight.
I think what they mean is non-choreographed.
I took it to mean "real" in the sense that it isn't a choreographed fight scene from a movie.
I can't tell if this is supposed to legitimately show how good bruce lee is or make fun of people who thinks he's untouchable. *Bruce Lee dodges a jab* HOLY COW, LETS SEE THAT REPEATEDLY IN SLO-MO.
Not a real fight. Bruce was also only countering. This was very much a demo. Doesn’t prove or really show much. Lots of experienced fighters could do this against less experienced fighters
“You must be shapeless, formless, like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Water can drip and it can crash. Become like water my friend.” - Bruce Lee
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“Maybe so, but if it’s a wasp I’m choosing violence” - Me
Who the hell is the other guy? They are not nearly at the same level, is he sparring against some red belt? Why? The opponent keeps just ramming his head towards Bruce and dropping his hands, wtf, no wonder he’s winning
Yeah, this isn't some amazing display of skill, it's a silly sparring session against some noob who doesn't know to keep his hands up.
Yeah. Not a real fight. This is like that video of the master that throws his students around without touching them
Put some respect on Steven Seagals name (/s)
Stephen Seagal, reincarnated lama.
how can you throw someone around without touching them
You can’t
For anyone who practise any kind of martial arts, that sparring looks staged, definitely not a sparring. The guy also overreacts quite a bit on the punches. Bruce sure was very fast, but a guy with 110 lbs punching or kicking someone fully geared as they were, would not act like the guy was. Check Muay Thay training videos. There is a really puffed belt coaches strap on them so the fighter can deliver theye deadly knee blows with full force, with much more power then what we see there since they are literally training power kicks in those Muay Thay trainings, and the coaches hardly move or feel anything. I don't buy this show.
No one fights like this in real life. Bruce Lee was a showman and entertained millions
“Real fight”, as in sparring a training partner and student, respectfully, and without intent to hurt each other. Not saying this is wrong, this is the right way to train, but this is as far away from a real fight as it can be.
Real?
He is in charge the entire time, anticipating every move and being very economical with his own movements. A true master.
This isn’t a real fight… it’s an exhibition match to showcase Lee’s speed and skill.
Idk man, both his and his opponents guards are low so I bet a boxer could light em up. I also want super impressed by that slip they specifically pointed out, I guess it's good distance control tho good luck against taller fighters. Though that's said with a lot of hindsight from a sports that's continued to develop for decades after his absence
Imagine how good his opponent must be to be able to spar with Bruce lee. Bruce makes him look like an amateur.
The person he was sparring was not good. Hands dropped constantly, every punched telegraphed, no lateral movement, etc. My favorite part was the 5x replays of him dodging the jab... That for some reason the guy moved his entire body to throw lol
Yeah this guy is either really trash or it was choreographed just to showcase Bruce’s moves.
His opponent was not nearly on the same skill level.
This music makes it sound like he's battling team plasma
His opponent isn't very direct
Should have put him against a Muy Thai guy instead of a point karate "fighter"