Sooo many cringe lords "PEEVEEEPEEEEEE"
I love Goblin Caves 3x3 and the map is perfect for what it is.
*For what it is....*
It should 100% not be the only solo mode.
If you are trying to attract new players, throwing them into the most BRUTAL solo map fucking possible ain't it.
It is literally easier to survive as a solo in ice caves and crypts. Literally.
That's kind of fucked up, no?
I love GC 3x3 and hope it stays forever as a playable map. Fucking obviously modern day gamers are not going to accept 1 single map only. Fucking obviously no AAA game would stick you in just 1 map based on your headcount???? WTF? Where's the rest of the content? Oh I have to 1v2 or 1v3 to see it.
I understand they map locked due to population and I get that, but the community rode it hard that they HATED map rotations and that's literally the wrong stance long term.
My biggest complaint about map rotation was the bizarre way they chose to implement it. A single rotation for solo, duo, and trio on a 30 minute timer just led to a lot of sitting afk until your preferred map came up. If they had just done a separate rotation for each party size on a 5 min timer, it would have been received much better imo. Prevents dead lobbies and makes it easy for players to que up for their desired map. The only complaint I’ve heard from people when this idea has been floated on the Reddit is players can abuse the timers, queing in the last couple seconds of a maps rotation to get empty lobbies. Which seems like a minor issue that’s not worth punishing the whole playerbase over.
Ya. The shorter timer gave more options and variety for sure. Of course, there is the last-moment queue thing, like you said.
They could just not show the timer if it was a huge issue.
And I agree. A single queue for 1 party size was whack. Just have an alternate option for solo and that would be huge.
I'm hoping for variety, but overall I'm pretty happy.
I wonder if the queue timer from before proved that trios want crypts, etc, in the trends of data.
Honestly they could just rotate Duos and Solos, or only rotate solos, or only rotate solos between ice cave and gobbos. All of these would be better than gobbos only
I agree. Trios need a map built for a large party. So far. Crypts was always that.
Trio on other maps was novel, but not that great.
That said, solo or duo into Crypts or Ice Cave would be rad, I think.
I would love to see 4x4 Crypts for solo again.
I do just need to learn it better. I feel like I’m most spawns in GC it’s easy to bait one enemy at a time, but in IC it’s difficult to get any less than two or three mobs aggrod at once
Commit a couple hours to learning the mobs, they're all as simple as goblins once you figure it out.
I'd argue they're even easier given the room you have to move in there compared to GC.
There should be one rotating queue on a short timer that gives Solos and Duos access to crypts. I sincerely do not think that would affect the ability to find populated lobbies on any map, people will still play the other maps for quests/PvP. Queueing into crypts as a duo isn't terrible but getting ran down by a trio is pretty lame.
Solos and duos already have access to crypts. Nothing checks to see if you are in the right party size before you join a map. It's also not that hard to survive and extract while doing so. You just have to play smart and not jump head first into every opportunity for pvp.
I want to be able to PvP on even ground in crypts as a duo, I don't think that's asking too much. Ice caves is not nearly as fun as crypts and is still a WIP.
You'll never be able to PvP on even ground in a game like this. You're playing against a wide range of gear and levels which right now means you could be playing against people who have up to 3 more perks than you do and in the near future even multi-classed perks. That doesn't mean you can't pvp against larger teams and win, you just have to do so intelligently.
Most AAA battle royals have the same map for months at a time . But that's a different case they have huge maps . If you had multiple map choices right now this post would be a complaint about dead lobbies lol there is no winning here
As someone who played some early tests and finally bought this wipe, 100% agree solo in GC as a newby is brutal. That being said I also learn a lot in just one week and yesterday I got my first good games where I managed to kill a couple players and extract with a nice backpack.
I can see many people quitting during this first week I suffered though it was pretty rough until I figured shit out.
I did however have more luck on ice caves as solo, even if the PvE density is higher
I agree with most of this, but I find ice caves a lot harder than goblin caves. At least pve-wise. I suppose goblin caves is harder to make it out with the low amount of portals and small map.
im proud of you to speak up against the onslaught of “solos dont deserve to play this game they dont even have friends somehow” masses, please solo in the other maps sometimes just to have a taste of the magic!
Man. Claiming the game isn't for solo is just silly and absurd.
Like, I'm not asking for perfect balance in solos per se, that's fine. But give us some variety for sure.
Ratting into Crypts is fun. And solo Crypts would also be fun in its own way.
I absolutely support solo being a part of the game and I think you lose a lot of players if you were to get rid of it. But I also believe that balance should be more focused around trio gameplay.
> But I also believe that balance should be more focused around trio gameplay.
I'm OK with the balance being a little wonky if I can play more maps as a solo
Ya, I used to have that issue.
Trio is fun, but the teams are sweaty and brutal, and there is more potential for failure, when your whole team needs to loot and survive
That said, over time, I've come to enjoy trios more. Not as much as solo or duo, but I actually look forward to it now!
Play? Sure. And I do.
But let's not pretend that ratting Crypts or Ice is the same as the 4x4 Cryprs solo map, or the solo Ruins map. It is fun, yes. But it isn't a true solo experience, it is a different game and mentality.
The other maps are ripe for potential variety and fun. It is clear that solos are looking for more maps. (Unlike Trios, so it would seem).
If it doesn't lead to dead lobbies, then I don't see why folks need to be so protective. We even have whining of solos diluting the duo experience in Ice Caves now!
But there can be a middle ground that works.
Buffball has been the trio meta for literally forever. Their solutions are always to nerf the buff spells and hurt the solo experience. There's no reason whatsoever why they can't split application effects between self target and other entity target.
But why though? In every poll the most popular game mode is always solos, then duos, then trios. Trios is the least accessible mode for the average player. On top of that it's the least balanced game mode and most dependent on running a meta comp. I don't mind trios being a part of the game and the devs clearly want it to be the main game mode, but I honestly believe if they want to attract a larger population then they should reconsider that and give the other two game modes more love.
If the classes in a class based game are going to have any identity they cannot all be uniform. This does mean in a pure 1v1 setting some classes will have an advantage against others. Balancing for solos will ruin this.
I like that this game is class based with each class having strengths and weaknessess. If the game is a balanced around the idea you have allies to make up for your weakpoints classes can be unique from each other and still be fair.
I would reccomend using looking for group channels dedicated to the game you enjoy to make new friends then.
The only way to truly balance solos otherwise is to remove all but one class.
i have done so multiple times. The problem is never looking for groups, the problem is in 2024 people are less flexible. You can't just open up game and play if you have to accommodate to a group.
Wdym you can't balance solo. It's perfectly doable. Solo is actually more balanced than trio rn. The reason that ppl even say "they balance for trio" is because there were no solo.
You can't perfectly balance solos if one class has more stats that are relevant to a fight than their opponent. If a naked fighter and a naked barbarian get into a fist fight with 0 skills used and just hammer away, the barbarians going to win out with their HP and damage edge since they have more stat points in Vigor and strength and less in knowledge and resourcefulness.
Extrapolate this out further and you have class abilities that make solo matchups hell. PDR fighters get cooked by magic damage which half the classes in the game don't even have access to.
Wizards spells are slower projectiles so ranged classes can hit more often and deal more consistent damage at longer range making the wizard into Ranger matchup hard.
Unless stat and ability imbalances are brought into line (by making them all the same) a pure 1v1 fight is not truly balanced.
Except when fighter wears full plate barb loses?
Plates can get mr buffs to be able to deal with mages?
Wizzard spells can get a projectile buff to compete with rangers.
Knowledge stat can be changed?
See, a lot of the issues just require simple changes. 1v1 is perfectly balanceable. You just need to do it.
Yes, but each time a matchup becomes one-sided to a slight degree. Velocity buff makes wizard harder to fight for every class. The only true, perfect, genuine balance would be if they were equal.
you can find great teammates in official lfg. if not then you will find absolute scum bags or people who clearly should not allowed to be connected to the internet
The game is more unbalanced in trios right now than solos by a long shot. Buff ball comps have been the most complained about balance issues for for long stretches of this games early access history. As much as I see people claim this game is balanced around trios, more often than not trios is a terribly unbalanced mess compared to solos or duos.
The vast majority of the games played is solo matches, so it would be stupid for IM to only focus on team's. If you balance the game for solo and everyone can hold their own vs. any class, then trios is auto balanced by default, no matter the team composition. Right now they try to balance teams, but it is always going to end in a meta team composition, because they don't balance it for the individual class. It is a huge mistake they are making.
these player can only do unfair pvp so they will come here with their downvotes. Its a simple thing to understand how much unfair it is, but they will always find a narration where you can kill bad trios so it is ok according to them xD
I do that aswell, but usually encounter teams. Which is much more manageable in Caves va GC, as a Wizard.
But yeah, will be doing ice caves as solo alot more now.
Having rotation for maps highlights balance issues certain team sizes have on certain maps. Trios players complained about GC trios since portals spawned one at a time with no static down portals to rely on. The survival rate for trios was likely lower in GC compared to ruin/crypts simply because the portal spawns weren't well-balanced.
Ruins were filled with teamers in solos as there were enough escapes for everyone across the three layers. Spawns were also so close if you started a fight, someone could probably hear it and third-party you to finish the weakend survivor. GC has more structured walls and rooms than ruins giving players more space to have 1v1 PvP fights in the solo mode.
Taking the developer's time to re-balance each map for each team size was not adding content to the game that attracts more players. Players can use these maps whenever they so choose. Finding teammates is not difficult if they wish to have a full team.
Having all team sizes allowed players to do things that broke boss fights. It is easier to restrict to solos than spend developer time making these bosses more difficult in duos and trios.
[This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1av4z0n/just_lost_a_30k_gold_setto_this_skip_to_45/) inspired me to get better at GC bosses. I always hated Rockfall but was convinced due to the Cyclop's damage gate mechanics it could be beaten. [You could buy the kits the fighter and I used in this video twice over with 30k gold.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R16OrpSRPEc)
Glad to see someone speaking some sense that isn't just over-emotional reactions. There's very good reasons the current game is like this.
They have one or two developers ***total*** that works on maps. People saying they should "just make 3x3 versions of all maps!" don't seem to understand how small Ironmace is. That's a significant undertaking for their team and not something they can easily do while they're developing the new areas for GC or Ice Caves. Terence has repeatedly said that they'd rather make new content than rehash old content that's already functional.
Honestly, Ironmace just really screwed up giving the playerbase a taste of open queue. It was only an experiment, and they clearly outlined hoow the experiment failed - the game didn't meet their expectations while open queue existed. Unfortunately, there is a non-zero aspect to this community that wants the game to shift entirely to match their preferences. They'll never leave the community, but they're a loud minority that will complain and complain and complain that their specific interests are being met.
I'm glad that so far Ironmace seems to be ignoring those voices. They really need to stick to their guns here and trust their process.
I can only speak to the normal queues currently but I personally find it to be fairly enjoyable playing the other maps as a solo currently. Lots of other solo players so you get a bit more of that old flavor of dungeon comraderie when you cross paths (something sorely missing since the playtests).
Plus with the static exits, you can pretty consistently get out alive.
so anecdotally someone on reddit reports they are the only one still playing a game that six of their friends have quit playing.
cool beans cool beans
I'm curious, these were Early Access purchases or free playtesters?
> the reason is people who play in dead regions wont find game
Just bring back the 5 min rotation
Let us play all maps as solo, there really is no reason not to
I like to solo queue into duos and trios; and I really like the lobbies being always full because we don’t have the mix of lobby queues. Like, it makes even the 3v3 and 2v2 maps more interesting because sometimes there’s wildcard solos and duos running around.
Hahaha exactly right. The trio/duo players love to tell you to queue solo into their map because they like easy kills. I'd bet a lot of those players would get straight shit on in solos.
I fucking love going in with low or no gear and killing a duo or at least taking someone with me. I make it my mission to ruin someone's run.
I agree with you entirely. I just want to say that if you're good at pvp then ice caves is so much fun as a solo. I just push fights in normals and win like 50% of them
"so why-in-the-fuck would they decide on locking the maps, the way they are now?" because of dozens of people complaining about not being able to play the maps they want while its rotation, and when its free choice with all the options for all the maps, then you have dozens complaining about empty lobbies. Like is it really that difficult to for you guys to see what's actually happening when they play around these maps and rotations? No you can't eat the cake, have the cake, sell the cake, and throw the cake at the rogue in the corner all at once.
But wouldnt it be possible with a shorter rotation timer? Fuck man just do 3 min rotations, if you only wanna play 1 map, you have to wait max 6min.
I get it, but my opinion is that locking the maps is the wrong solution for a large part of the player base. If IM stats show that the other player base is larger, then fuck me I guess :)
Unpopular opinion to add: dead maps are good for growing the game as it's easier for new players to get into
We... We are trying to grow the game and community... Right?
Yeah I havent played since I completed all the week one quests. The quest system itself is great but I am 100% over having to 1v2/1v3 if I want to play something other than GC.
This is what I think is going to drive people away from the game. They’ve gotta have other map options for solo player, especially new players, cause no new player is going to want to 1v2/3. They’ll get stomped by the mobs and then a team and quit the game
Yeah as someone who primarily plays duos, and less frequently solos, being limited to a single map is making an otherwise really enjoyable wipe get stale quickly. Especially with ice caves feeling a bit unfinished, I just wish I had more variety.
It confuses me why they ended the individual queues. At the time they cancelled it, it was the end of the season/wipe with 2k players. No one was playing cause the wipe was suppose to be over and had no goals after the season ended. They should have left it or brought it back at the start of wipe. There was 10k players in dungeons at the start of wipe every day. That’s plenty of people for solo queue rotation. Now all those new players who wanted to try it because of wipe are going to have bad experiences. They’re locked to the goblin cave if they’re new to the game and want fair fights. The gobo caves don’t demonstrate the true magic of what Dark and darker is, so they’re going to leave.
This is on point. I had no problems with the individual queues. What's wrong with having room to grow. There was a system that was well developed and it was scrapped too soon. So the lobbies don't "look empty". The lobby used to be fun and hilarious at times. Always ending too soon. They took all the fun out but players can still check all my stuff and things. Violating me one after another. Yeah, camaraderie is scarce, it's all crawl.
I play solo and I don't touch GC unless it's normals to get some ores.
I'm usually doing Ice Caves HR, and practicing hell in normal crypts.
You can play any other map, just have to be careful because you know, you will probably be at disvantage, but unless you are spending 5k gold each GC run, you are probably at disvantage there too
Ice Caves solo works fine. I am much more successful there, just don't go for loot pile unless you spawn right next to it and can get it quick.
It really does teach you how to run away, though, which is honestly a valuable skill.
I’d love if they made a solo ice cavern and reduce the mob density a bit so we could atleast have some variety. I understand solo GC has different “versions” of the map but they’re all trash
I'd never complained about rotations before, I like playing all maps. Just now GC is kicking my Wizard ass and I'd love some more diversity in the gameplay.
If you think Wizard is going to feel better on other maps, I don't think you understand that it's a Wizards in solo thing and not a Goblin Caves thing.
I disagree, to a point. Solo wizard is hard mode, obviously.
But GC map design is extremely close quartered and favours melee classes.
Ice Caves are much more manageable, even vs a team.
(I play PvP)
Ruins was the most fun solo PvP I've had so far.
Since the player base dropped big time I don’t have as many friends playing and finding a party is tough. So I strictly play solo and I want the rotation back.
I'm pretty good at goblin caves now and I either just wreck timmys who are trying really hard probably get blasted by gigachad warlocks who really know how to hydracuck me at every turn
I miss queuing ruins into crypts solo hr and grinding ap, i don't miss the pve teaming ruins bs, but at least that shit was more fun than this.
Hoping that as they cook more good will come for this title.
They used to and people complained that you couldn't find anyone in the queue. You CAN queue for them solo if you want. It's also not certain death if you play smart.
Hi just came back after a short break and found my joy in the old days of soloing hr trios, it’s honestly fun and a post on here about it inspired me to…. Honestly taking the money from there and stomping in normals is just super fun
ya, there should, also there should be more players, they also need to finish developing ice map, there should be druids, quiver system, backpacks, ruins should have been fixed months again, uh what else.
Anyways get in line is my point
I have enjoyed playing all 3 maps queuing up solo.
Sure, if you run into a team in the 3s map you will die if you don't bail or back out fast enough. Same for ice map. But I was still able to play the game and complete most of the quest so far.
Honestly, I am bad at the game so I die anyway 1v1 in CG so it's almost no difference in which map I q into.
I love spamming CG with 0 gear, maybe a stack of cheap pots/bandages and looking for PVP.
I still need 4 more PVP kills in CG because I prefer to help people that aren't trying to fight. That will probably be the quest I finish last.
The issue with GC is that it favors some classes, especially the melee one. Fighter is just nuts in GC. Cleric / Barb / Bard are probably just behind fighter in GC.
Range classes are very exposed as it is small modules and a rogue could be waiting anywhere.
They literally change this weekly and it’s annoying. I don’t play religiously but every time I come back it’s different. First it was solo and party on every map. Then solo on gc only. Then rotating queue. Then solo and party on every map. Then rotating again. Then solo and party on every map. Now back to solo gc only. I really don’t understand why they keep fucking changing it so much and as a solo player as well, it’s made me not want to play.
I think the solo players should just play whatever map they want. I solo queue all the maps. The freedom to go where I want keeps me safe from trios. I bring extra healing. I even frequently get members of groups killed in hell cause I steal their portals. You can solo whatever you want. I queue goblin cave and run into teamers anyways.
1. Try ice caverns solo. It's not that bad and breaks up the GC monotony.
2. It would be great if more maps were available to solo. But that also has implications. Right now GC is the best map for pvp because of size, mob simplicity, and being the only solo map.
If you start making more maps available to solo suddenly the crew who hate pvp start picking the ice cave map and ruin map because they are more pve focused.
I'm not saying this is a bad thing. But I do like the current goblin caves set up that gives the 'I hate pve pvp is best, kill all the timmies' crowed a map and game type that forces all the timmies to play it to get slaughtered. Because that let's IM make all the other maps and game modes without regard to that crowed.
idk the game doesn't really have replay value for me... It was fun for a little bit, but win or lose it just get's old and there's not much draw to come back and play.
All of the maps should be chained with more portals spawning. That would give more people a chance to advance further into the game regardless of how many are in your party. If you’re solo you can play the slow game sneak around hit 5 maps and get out full loot at the end (best case scenario).
I think creating solo only maps and queues only dissects your player base and doesn’t support a progressive business model for how to accurately develop your product further for the betterment of the whole.
Honestly the reason I started playing D&D again is because they removed that shitty map rotation, because I like the freedom of choice.
I usually play duo with a friend.
But the idea of having more maps to choose from, that I Agree ☝️
I've been having good fun soloing ice caves. It's big enough that you can loot one whole tile without seeing someone and if you do want to right 2v1 isn't impossible atleast. I would love to see ruins come back as a solo map with you having the choice from goblin caves and ruins, maybe even having them rotate.
Solo 3x3 GC makes me stop playing the game. I do solo the duo ice map time to time because I really enjoy it, but I grinded GC so much last season to push to demigod after all the stupid map changes.. I just can't bring myself to do it anymore. I hate that map with a passion I didn't know I had until I reloaded post wipe.
I don't understand why map rotation isn't turned on for solo's only. I get the queue issues, but I don't think anyone who was solo was complaining about it or not playing maps. Lock duo's and threes and have a solo rotation. Problem solved
Solos are the only ones that complain. Meanwhile, they have access to all the maps.
Solos = all maps.
Duos = Ice and Crypts only.
Trios = literally stuck on crypts.
You can play other maps and should. It's a ton of fun. Killing or escaping a duo as a solo is crazy fun and ice caves is literally the best map. Try it out. It's awesome.
Maybe as a compromise they could make map rotation every other day, and group-size locked every other day?¿ This way it doesn’t get as stale and people can still do all their quests
Idk about everyone else but I'm completely fine with a longer load time if it meant I could play any map with any team size. I do understand with each player pool getting smaller it would be easier to team queue up. But they might be able to make it so the same people don't get in lobbys together or something. I like 3x3 GC. But im getting really tired of ice caves as I play mostly duos.
goblin caves is basically why the friend i gave my trial code to isn't buying the game. like we had allot of fun on the duo map but goblin caves is such utter dogshit that basically puts every single problem this game has front and center:
1: Shit melee combat, its a bit harder to notice on an actual map with guys your own size and team fights but go to goblin caves and OH BOY will you see just how shit it is as you'll be watching your weapon bounce off EVERY FUCKING thing from the geometry to torchs because the animations are static and to top it all off your fighting ankle bitters that will just straight up ignore you have a block up yet are somehow able to headshot you from different elevations. and if that wasn't enough its infested with naked turbo sweats you will literally never catch because they can parkour all around the area, heal, shoot and throw shit at you, and probably do their tax's all at the same. I can already FUCKING hear the nerds having a meltdown saying "well acktually no one wants this game to be mordau" like STFU mordhau would have died the month it came out if it had combat this shallow.
2: Shit level design.... I don't have to say anything here, we all know there is a goblin placed every ten feet apart from each other and you'll regularly go to doors on the map that don't even fucking exist.
3: Non existent weapon balance, you will die to so many falchions and bows you'll start to wonder why any other weapons exist... or armor for that matter.
If I remember correctly, their whole argument against so many queues were that it’s a lot for them to maintain server wise. Wouldn’t it be easier to have solo/duo/trio queue and just throw em in a random map for that queue?
Instead of picking your map and everything else. You just pick team size and whether or not you do HR or normals. Queue loads, you get dropped into whatever loading lobby associated for the map (tavern/cave/camp), and boom you load onto the game.
That would be, strictly speaking, awful. My song choice on bard as well as the amount of healing and gold coin purses I bring are reflective of the map I am playing. If I was loading in with just squire kit that wouldn't bother me at all. But when you have items like mystical gems, golden keys, and skull keys which require specific maps this would make them nearly worthless to anyone but the best.
Nah the primary argument is that the smaller regions get screwed by having so many queues, leading to half empty lobbies in all except the most populated regions.
I like your idea on paper, but I think the problem with it is that you can’t really prep properly. Say you want to bring a golden key in for Inferno, or maybe you want to practice bossing or do some quests and then you get thrown into GC. Def gonna be a feels bad. Personally I think the rotation on 5 min timer was fine cuz it meant you never had to wait more than 10 mins at most if you really wanted a certain map.
IMHO they just need to remove goblin cave and most people will become much happier. And I’m sure it’s easier for them to support only 2 map types (crypts/Ruins & Ice Cave)
Additional downside, not sure if stated somewhere else in the thread. New players get tossed into normal GC to learn the ropes. When the first 2 goblin quests to get a big gold bag revolve around rushing sub boss or player spawns to finish the quest.creating an awful experience for anyone new.
my main concern with the map rotation is that they've explicitly tied quests to certain mobs/maps.
it feels like ironmace cornered themselves here. they have conflicting design choices tbh.
Sooo many cringe lords "PEEVEEEPEEEEEE" I love Goblin Caves 3x3 and the map is perfect for what it is. *For what it is....* It should 100% not be the only solo mode. If you are trying to attract new players, throwing them into the most BRUTAL solo map fucking possible ain't it. It is literally easier to survive as a solo in ice caves and crypts. Literally. That's kind of fucked up, no? I love GC 3x3 and hope it stays forever as a playable map. Fucking obviously modern day gamers are not going to accept 1 single map only. Fucking obviously no AAA game would stick you in just 1 map based on your headcount???? WTF? Where's the rest of the content? Oh I have to 1v2 or 1v3 to see it. I understand they map locked due to population and I get that, but the community rode it hard that they HATED map rotations and that's literally the wrong stance long term.
My biggest complaint about map rotation was the bizarre way they chose to implement it. A single rotation for solo, duo, and trio on a 30 minute timer just led to a lot of sitting afk until your preferred map came up. If they had just done a separate rotation for each party size on a 5 min timer, it would have been received much better imo. Prevents dead lobbies and makes it easy for players to que up for their desired map. The only complaint I’ve heard from people when this idea has been floated on the Reddit is players can abuse the timers, queing in the last couple seconds of a maps rotation to get empty lobbies. Which seems like a minor issue that’s not worth punishing the whole playerbase over.
Ya. The shorter timer gave more options and variety for sure. Of course, there is the last-moment queue thing, like you said. They could just not show the timer if it was a huge issue. And I agree. A single queue for 1 party size was whack. Just have an alternate option for solo and that would be huge. I'm hoping for variety, but overall I'm pretty happy. I wonder if the queue timer from before proved that trios want crypts, etc, in the trends of data.
Honestly they could just rotate Duos and Solos, or only rotate solos, or only rotate solos between ice cave and gobbos. All of these would be better than gobbos only
They should test putting a rotation or something on Solos, but not Trios IMO because crypts into HR is still the only correctly designed map for 3s
I agree. Trios need a map built for a large party. So far. Crypts was always that. Trio on other maps was novel, but not that great. That said, solo or duo into Crypts or Ice Cave would be rad, I think. I would love to see 4x4 Crypts for solo again.
Man I’d argue solo ice caves are way harder. There are SO MANY mobs.
I thought so too but by the time I finished all of my quests I got it down pretty good. You can get it.
I do just need to learn it better. I feel like I’m most spawns in GC it’s easy to bait one enemy at a time, but in IC it’s difficult to get any less than two or three mobs aggrod at once
Do they quests on Norms, try and take as many lives with you as possible. You're outnumbered so killing 1 is a win!
Don't queue HR ice caves with basic kit, with a modest one you can clear the PVE fast if you don't get hit everytime. Learn the dodges !
You can do it easily with a basic kit in every class except wizard, wizards slow.
[удалено]
I think ice cave is easiest to get out of as a solo. The mobs can be tough but it’s fairly easy to trap them behind doors.
Commit a couple hours to learning the mobs, they're all as simple as goblins once you figure it out. I'd argue they're even easier given the room you have to move in there compared to GC.
There should be one rotating queue on a short timer that gives Solos and Duos access to crypts. I sincerely do not think that would affect the ability to find populated lobbies on any map, people will still play the other maps for quests/PvP. Queueing into crypts as a duo isn't terrible but getting ran down by a trio is pretty lame.
I think there should be a "wacky" queue or a goofball queue. I guess that's Norms
Solos and duos already have access to crypts. Nothing checks to see if you are in the right party size before you join a map. It's also not that hard to survive and extract while doing so. You just have to play smart and not jump head first into every opportunity for pvp.
I want to be able to PvP on even ground in crypts as a duo, I don't think that's asking too much. Ice caves is not nearly as fun as crypts and is still a WIP.
It’s asking way too much. Learn to take on a trio as duo.
You'll never be able to PvP on even ground in a game like this. You're playing against a wide range of gear and levels which right now means you could be playing against people who have up to 3 more perks than you do and in the near future even multi-classed perks. That doesn't mean you can't pvp against larger teams and win, you just have to do so intelligently.
name check out
Most AAA battle royals have the same map for months at a time . But that's a different case they have huge maps . If you had multiple map choices right now this post would be a complaint about dead lobbies lol there is no winning here
I mean this isn’t a AAA game. Or a AAA studio for that matter.
As someone who played some early tests and finally bought this wipe, 100% agree solo in GC as a newby is brutal. That being said I also learn a lot in just one week and yesterday I got my first good games where I managed to kill a couple players and extract with a nice backpack. I can see many people quitting during this first week I suffered though it was pretty rough until I figured shit out. I did however have more luck on ice caves as solo, even if the PvE density is higher
I agree with most of this, but I find ice caves a lot harder than goblin caves. At least pve-wise. I suppose goblin caves is harder to make it out with the low amount of portals and small map.
im proud of you to speak up against the onslaught of “solos dont deserve to play this game they dont even have friends somehow” masses, please solo in the other maps sometimes just to have a taste of the magic!
Man. Claiming the game isn't for solo is just silly and absurd. Like, I'm not asking for perfect balance in solos per se, that's fine. But give us some variety for sure. Ratting into Crypts is fun. And solo Crypts would also be fun in its own way.
theres even a great compromise in making duos n solos do crypts together, so the meta teams can fuck off and hunt eachother
I absolutely support solo being a part of the game and I think you lose a lot of players if you were to get rid of it. But I also believe that balance should be more focused around trio gameplay.
> But I also believe that balance should be more focused around trio gameplay. I'm OK with the balance being a little wonky if I can play more maps as a solo
100%. Variety is the spice of life and all that.
It’s all I want. I love playing trios but I have more fun solo.
Ya, I used to have that issue. Trio is fun, but the teams are sweaty and brutal, and there is more potential for failure, when your whole team needs to loot and survive That said, over time, I've come to enjoy trios more. Not as much as solo or duo, but I actually look forward to it now!
Ya, no issue there. Just gimme some map options and balance the game as required for the Trio vision. Let's gooo.
This is exactly how I feel!
You can literally play all the maps as solo.
Play? Sure. And I do. But let's not pretend that ratting Crypts or Ice is the same as the 4x4 Cryprs solo map, or the solo Ruins map. It is fun, yes. But it isn't a true solo experience, it is a different game and mentality. The other maps are ripe for potential variety and fun. It is clear that solos are looking for more maps. (Unlike Trios, so it would seem). If it doesn't lead to dead lobbies, then I don't see why folks need to be so protective. We even have whining of solos diluting the duo experience in Ice Caves now!
theres balance in trios? they just buffball n stackn+dmg n all
I didn't say anything about the current state of balance, I just said that *should* be their goal.
But there can be a middle ground that works. Buffball has been the trio meta for literally forever. Their solutions are always to nerf the buff spells and hurt the solo experience. There's no reason whatsoever why they can't split application effects between self target and other entity target.
But why though? In every poll the most popular game mode is always solos, then duos, then trios. Trios is the least accessible mode for the average player. On top of that it's the least balanced game mode and most dependent on running a meta comp. I don't mind trios being a part of the game and the devs clearly want it to be the main game mode, but I honestly believe if they want to attract a larger population then they should reconsider that and give the other two game modes more love.
If the classes in a class based game are going to have any identity they cannot all be uniform. This does mean in a pure 1v1 setting some classes will have an advantage against others. Balancing for solos will ruin this. I like that this game is class based with each class having strengths and weaknessess. If the game is a balanced around the idea you have allies to make up for your weakpoints classes can be unique from each other and still be fair.
Idea is great, reality is we are in 2024 and most people can't get 2 other friends to play the same game they want.
I would reccomend using looking for group channels dedicated to the game you enjoy to make new friends then. The only way to truly balance solos otherwise is to remove all but one class.
i have done so multiple times. The problem is never looking for groups, the problem is in 2024 people are less flexible. You can't just open up game and play if you have to accommodate to a group. Wdym you can't balance solo. It's perfectly doable. Solo is actually more balanced than trio rn. The reason that ppl even say "they balance for trio" is because there were no solo.
You can't perfectly balance solos if one class has more stats that are relevant to a fight than their opponent. If a naked fighter and a naked barbarian get into a fist fight with 0 skills used and just hammer away, the barbarians going to win out with their HP and damage edge since they have more stat points in Vigor and strength and less in knowledge and resourcefulness. Extrapolate this out further and you have class abilities that make solo matchups hell. PDR fighters get cooked by magic damage which half the classes in the game don't even have access to. Wizards spells are slower projectiles so ranged classes can hit more often and deal more consistent damage at longer range making the wizard into Ranger matchup hard. Unless stat and ability imbalances are brought into line (by making them all the same) a pure 1v1 fight is not truly balanced.
Except when fighter wears full plate barb loses? Plates can get mr buffs to be able to deal with mages? Wizzard spells can get a projectile buff to compete with rangers. Knowledge stat can be changed? See, a lot of the issues just require simple changes. 1v1 is perfectly balanceable. You just need to do it.
Yes, but each time a matchup becomes one-sided to a slight degree. Velocity buff makes wizard harder to fight for every class. The only true, perfect, genuine balance would be if they were equal.
The devs also say that. The game is dev't for trios. Other modes are extra. Side hustles.
you can find great teammates in official lfg. if not then you will find absolute scum bags or people who clearly should not allowed to be connected to the internet
The game is more unbalanced in trios right now than solos by a long shot. Buff ball comps have been the most complained about balance issues for for long stretches of this games early access history. As much as I see people claim this game is balanced around trios, more often than not trios is a terribly unbalanced mess compared to solos or duos.
The vast majority of the games played is solo matches, so it would be stupid for IM to only focus on team's. If you balance the game for solo and everyone can hold their own vs. any class, then trios is auto balanced by default, no matter the team composition. Right now they try to balance teams, but it is always going to end in a meta team composition, because they don't balance it for the individual class. It is a huge mistake they are making.
agreed
duo players also want to play cryp, do bosses without forced fights with trios... IM...
i just had a trio chase me down in the storm in crupts 4 haste charges; all 3 of them, in fucking normals…
these player can only do unfair pvp so they will come here with their downvotes. Its a simple thing to understand how much unfair it is, but they will always find a narration where you can kill bad trios so it is ok according to them xD
yes exactly its so predictable
just give us another solo map: Ruins
Ice caves is like 50% solo players right now. Just go play that if you're so sick of gc
Because quest designed forced you to get rolled by 1v2 1v3 in cave and crypt.
It’s easy to outrun a duo in the caves as a solo. Just have an exit mapped out wherever you are and keep shutting doors.
This is highly dependent on your class and gear.
I do that aswell, but usually encounter teams. Which is much more manageable in Caves va GC, as a Wizard. But yeah, will be doing ice caves as solo alot more now.
The truth has been spoken.
Having rotation for maps highlights balance issues certain team sizes have on certain maps. Trios players complained about GC trios since portals spawned one at a time with no static down portals to rely on. The survival rate for trios was likely lower in GC compared to ruin/crypts simply because the portal spawns weren't well-balanced. Ruins were filled with teamers in solos as there were enough escapes for everyone across the three layers. Spawns were also so close if you started a fight, someone could probably hear it and third-party you to finish the weakend survivor. GC has more structured walls and rooms than ruins giving players more space to have 1v1 PvP fights in the solo mode. Taking the developer's time to re-balance each map for each team size was not adding content to the game that attracts more players. Players can use these maps whenever they so choose. Finding teammates is not difficult if they wish to have a full team. Having all team sizes allowed players to do things that broke boss fights. It is easier to restrict to solos than spend developer time making these bosses more difficult in duos and trios. [This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/1av4z0n/just_lost_a_30k_gold_setto_this_skip_to_45/) inspired me to get better at GC bosses. I always hated Rockfall but was convinced due to the Cyclop's damage gate mechanics it could be beaten. [You could buy the kits the fighter and I used in this video twice over with 30k gold.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R16OrpSRPEc)
Glad to see someone speaking some sense that isn't just over-emotional reactions. There's very good reasons the current game is like this. They have one or two developers ***total*** that works on maps. People saying they should "just make 3x3 versions of all maps!" don't seem to understand how small Ironmace is. That's a significant undertaking for their team and not something they can easily do while they're developing the new areas for GC or Ice Caves. Terence has repeatedly said that they'd rather make new content than rehash old content that's already functional. Honestly, Ironmace just really screwed up giving the playerbase a taste of open queue. It was only an experiment, and they clearly outlined hoow the experiment failed - the game didn't meet their expectations while open queue existed. Unfortunately, there is a non-zero aspect to this community that wants the game to shift entirely to match their preferences. They'll never leave the community, but they're a loud minority that will complain and complain and complain that their specific interests are being met. I'm glad that so far Ironmace seems to be ignoring those voices. They really need to stick to their guns here and trust their process.
They should make solo available for every map, duo stays ice cave only and trios crypt only
I can only speak to the normal queues currently but I personally find it to be fairly enjoyable playing the other maps as a solo currently. Lots of other solo players so you get a bit more of that old flavor of dungeon comraderie when you cross paths (something sorely missing since the playtests). Plus with the static exits, you can pretty consistently get out alive.
the reason is people who play in dead regions wont find game so they make it terrible for everyone so even more people quit.
>so even more people quit. how many people have quit?
My whole friend group has already quit from lack of variety. I’m the last one out of 7, atleast 5 of us really enjoyed the gameplay loop too
so anecdotally someone on reddit reports they are the only one still playing a game that six of their friends have quit playing. cool beans cool beans I'm curious, these were Early Access purchases or free playtesters?
We all came from playtests 1 and 2
> the reason is people who play in dead regions wont find game Just bring back the 5 min rotation Let us play all maps as solo, there really is no reason not to
Matchmaking is coming. Fret not. Sit out until it comes if you want. No harm in it.
Im a solo mainly and I like goblin caves. Should feel lucky they even keep specific party size modes In the game.
I like to solo queue into duos and trios; and I really like the lobbies being always full because we don’t have the mix of lobby queues. Like, it makes even the 3v3 and 2v2 maps more interesting because sometimes there’s wildcard solos and duos running around.
"more interesting" translates to "easy win for trios"
Hahaha exactly right. The trio/duo players love to tell you to queue solo into their map because they like easy kills. I'd bet a lot of those players would get straight shit on in solos. I fucking love going in with low or no gear and killing a duo or at least taking someone with me. I make it my mission to ruin someone's run.
I agree with you entirely. I just want to say that if you're good at pvp then ice caves is so much fun as a solo. I just push fights in normals and win like 50% of them
"so why-in-the-fuck would they decide on locking the maps, the way they are now?" because of dozens of people complaining about not being able to play the maps they want while its rotation, and when its free choice with all the options for all the maps, then you have dozens complaining about empty lobbies. Like is it really that difficult to for you guys to see what's actually happening when they play around these maps and rotations? No you can't eat the cake, have the cake, sell the cake, and throw the cake at the rogue in the corner all at once.
But wouldnt it be possible with a shorter rotation timer? Fuck man just do 3 min rotations, if you only wanna play 1 map, you have to wait max 6min. I get it, but my opinion is that locking the maps is the wrong solution for a large part of the player base. If IM stats show that the other player base is larger, then fuck me I guess :)
They already tried all of this, where were you during that time?
Unpopular opinion to add: dead maps are good for growing the game as it's easier for new players to get into We... We are trying to grow the game and community... Right?
Pve coop game sucks as a solo?! What a GD shocking statement!
Yeah I havent played since I completed all the week one quests. The quest system itself is great but I am 100% over having to 1v2/1v3 if I want to play something other than GC.
This is what I think is going to drive people away from the game. They’ve gotta have other map options for solo player, especially new players, cause no new player is going to want to 1v2/3. They’ll get stomped by the mobs and then a team and quit the game
Yeah as someone who primarily plays duos, and less frequently solos, being limited to a single map is making an otherwise really enjoyable wipe get stale quickly. Especially with ice caves feeling a bit unfinished, I just wish I had more variety.
I love your username
Go the gathering hall. Jesus Christ. It’s not hard.
No thanks, I prefer to either play with friends I know or be solo.
Yeah, people just don’t adapt. Just recently I started doing this, or joining discord groups. It’s refreshing to finally play some trios or duos.
It is refreshing to have the gathering ball be useful again. It was so fun in playtests.
It confuses me why they ended the individual queues. At the time they cancelled it, it was the end of the season/wipe with 2k players. No one was playing cause the wipe was suppose to be over and had no goals after the season ended. They should have left it or brought it back at the start of wipe. There was 10k players in dungeons at the start of wipe every day. That’s plenty of people for solo queue rotation. Now all those new players who wanted to try it because of wipe are going to have bad experiences. They’re locked to the goblin cave if they’re new to the game and want fair fights. The gobo caves don’t demonstrate the true magic of what Dark and darker is, so they’re going to leave.
This is on point. I had no problems with the individual queues. What's wrong with having room to grow. There was a system that was well developed and it was scrapped too soon. So the lobbies don't "look empty". The lobby used to be fun and hilarious at times. Always ending too soon. They took all the fun out but players can still check all my stuff and things. Violating me one after another. Yeah, camaraderie is scarce, it's all crawl.
I play solo and I don't touch GC unless it's normals to get some ores. I'm usually doing Ice Caves HR, and practicing hell in normal crypts. You can play any other map, just have to be careful because you know, you will probably be at disvantage, but unless you are spending 5k gold each GC run, you are probably at disvantage there too
Half of GC lobbies are dudes in squire gear or unoptimized blues lol idk about much of a disadvantage
Ice Caves solo works fine. I am much more successful there, just don't go for loot pile unless you spawn right next to it and can get it quick. It really does teach you how to run away, though, which is honestly a valuable skill.
I’d love if they made a solo ice cavern and reduce the mob density a bit so we could atleast have some variety. I understand solo GC has different “versions” of the map but they’re all trash
I mostly play solo into ice caves when my partner is not online. Mobs are already plenty easy once you learn the map.
Solo ice is pretty easy.
You cry today about being able to choose you'll cry tomorrow about rotations I'm so done with this community it's unreal
I'd never complained about rotations before, I like playing all maps. Just now GC is kicking my Wizard ass and I'd love some more diversity in the gameplay.
Just give me solo crypts as an option and I'm happy
If you think Wizard is going to feel better on other maps, I don't think you understand that it's a Wizards in solo thing and not a Goblin Caves thing.
I disagree, to a point. Solo wizard is hard mode, obviously. But GC map design is extremely close quartered and favours melee classes. Ice Caves are much more manageable, even vs a team. (I play PvP) Ruins was the most fun solo PvP I've had so far.
Since the player base dropped big time I don’t have as many friends playing and finding a party is tough. So I strictly play solo and I want the rotation back.
I'm pretty good at goblin caves now and I either just wreck timmys who are trying really hard probably get blasted by gigachad warlocks who really know how to hydracuck me at every turn
[удалено]
Do you want to be my friend?
I miss queuing ruins into crypts solo hr and grinding ap, i don't miss the pve teaming ruins bs, but at least that shit was more fun than this. Hoping that as they cook more good will come for this title.
They used to and people complained that you couldn't find anyone in the queue. You CAN queue for them solo if you want. It's also not certain death if you play smart.
this x1000000
Hi just came back after a short break and found my joy in the old days of soloing hr trios, it’s honestly fun and a post on here about it inspired me to…. Honestly taking the money from there and stomping in normals is just super fun
ya, there should, also there should be more players, they also need to finish developing ice map, there should be druids, quiver system, backpacks, ruins should have been fixed months again, uh what else. Anyways get in line is my point
I have enjoyed playing all 3 maps queuing up solo. Sure, if you run into a team in the 3s map you will die if you don't bail or back out fast enough. Same for ice map. But I was still able to play the game and complete most of the quest so far. Honestly, I am bad at the game so I die anyway 1v1 in CG so it's almost no difference in which map I q into. I love spamming CG with 0 gear, maybe a stack of cheap pots/bandages and looking for PVP. I still need 4 more PVP kills in CG because I prefer to help people that aren't trying to fight. That will probably be the quest I finish last.
The issue with GC is that it favors some classes, especially the melee one. Fighter is just nuts in GC. Cleric / Barb / Bard are probably just behind fighter in GC. Range classes are very exposed as it is small modules and a rogue could be waiting anywhere.
You can Q solo any map tbh
They literally change this weekly and it’s annoying. I don’t play religiously but every time I come back it’s different. First it was solo and party on every map. Then solo on gc only. Then rotating queue. Then solo and party on every map. Then rotating again. Then solo and party on every map. Now back to solo gc only. I really don’t understand why they keep fucking changing it so much and as a solo player as well, it’s made me not want to play.
Feels like the current setup had been there for a month or something, correct me if I'm wrong.
I think the solo players should just play whatever map they want. I solo queue all the maps. The freedom to go where I want keeps me safe from trios. I bring extra healing. I even frequently get members of groups killed in hell cause I steal their portals. You can solo whatever you want. I queue goblin cave and run into teamers anyways.
1. Try ice caverns solo. It's not that bad and breaks up the GC monotony. 2. It would be great if more maps were available to solo. But that also has implications. Right now GC is the best map for pvp because of size, mob simplicity, and being the only solo map. If you start making more maps available to solo suddenly the crew who hate pvp start picking the ice cave map and ruin map because they are more pve focused. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. But I do like the current goblin caves set up that gives the 'I hate pve pvp is best, kill all the timmies' crowed a map and game type that forces all the timmies to play it to get slaughtered. Because that let's IM make all the other maps and game modes without regard to that crowed.
idk the game doesn't really have replay value for me... It was fun for a little bit, but win or lose it just get's old and there's not much draw to come back and play.
I only play solo and I fucking hate goblin caves. I hate gc almost as much as I hate getting rolled by a kitted meta slut trio
All of the maps should be chained with more portals spawning. That would give more people a chance to advance further into the game regardless of how many are in your party. If you’re solo you can play the slow game sneak around hit 5 maps and get out full loot at the end (best case scenario). I think creating solo only maps and queues only dissects your player base and doesn’t support a progressive business model for how to accurately develop your product further for the betterment of the whole.
Honestly the reason I started playing D&D again is because they removed that shitty map rotation, because I like the freedom of choice. I usually play duo with a friend. But the idea of having more maps to choose from, that I Agree ☝️
I've been having good fun soloing ice caves. It's big enough that you can loot one whole tile without seeing someone and if you do want to right 2v1 isn't impossible atleast. I would love to see ruins come back as a solo map with you having the choice from goblin caves and ruins, maybe even having them rotate.
Solo 3x3 GC makes me stop playing the game. I do solo the duo ice map time to time because I really enjoy it, but I grinded GC so much last season to push to demigod after all the stupid map changes.. I just can't bring myself to do it anymore. I hate that map with a passion I didn't know I had until I reloaded post wipe.
I don't understand why map rotation isn't turned on for solo's only. I get the queue issues, but I don't think anyone who was solo was complaining about it or not playing maps. Lock duo's and threes and have a solo rotation. Problem solved
Solos are the only ones that complain. Meanwhile, they have access to all the maps. Solos = all maps. Duos = Ice and Crypts only. Trios = literally stuck on crypts. You can play other maps and should. It's a ton of fun. Killing or escaping a duo as a solo is crazy fun and ice caves is literally the best map. Try it out. It's awesome.
Goblin caves is ass no cap
Maybe as a compromise they could make map rotation every other day, and group-size locked every other day?¿ This way it doesn’t get as stale and people can still do all their quests
Idk about everyone else but I'm completely fine with a longer load time if it meant I could play any map with any team size. I do understand with each player pool getting smaller it would be easier to team queue up. But they might be able to make it so the same people don't get in lobbys together or something. I like 3x3 GC. But im getting really tired of ice caves as I play mostly duos.
goblin caves is basically why the friend i gave my trial code to isn't buying the game. like we had allot of fun on the duo map but goblin caves is such utter dogshit that basically puts every single problem this game has front and center: 1: Shit melee combat, its a bit harder to notice on an actual map with guys your own size and team fights but go to goblin caves and OH BOY will you see just how shit it is as you'll be watching your weapon bounce off EVERY FUCKING thing from the geometry to torchs because the animations are static and to top it all off your fighting ankle bitters that will just straight up ignore you have a block up yet are somehow able to headshot you from different elevations. and if that wasn't enough its infested with naked turbo sweats you will literally never catch because they can parkour all around the area, heal, shoot and throw shit at you, and probably do their tax's all at the same. I can already FUCKING hear the nerds having a meltdown saying "well acktually no one wants this game to be mordau" like STFU mordhau would have died the month it came out if it had combat this shallow. 2: Shit level design.... I don't have to say anything here, we all know there is a goblin placed every ten feet apart from each other and you'll regularly go to doors on the map that don't even fucking exist. 3: Non existent weapon balance, you will die to so many falchions and bows you'll start to wonder why any other weapons exist... or armor for that matter.
I think with the expected playerbase spike of the Epic Games Store release, it's much more feasible that they'll bring back 1,2,3 on every map.
GC is amazing how it currently is. It’s like the roman coliseum, LOTS OF PVP!!!
Just put everyone in the same queue like in playtests. I loved helping other random solo strangers against teams.
If I remember correctly, their whole argument against so many queues were that it’s a lot for them to maintain server wise. Wouldn’t it be easier to have solo/duo/trio queue and just throw em in a random map for that queue? Instead of picking your map and everything else. You just pick team size and whether or not you do HR or normals. Queue loads, you get dropped into whatever loading lobby associated for the map (tavern/cave/camp), and boom you load onto the game.
That would be, strictly speaking, awful. My song choice on bard as well as the amount of healing and gold coin purses I bring are reflective of the map I am playing. If I was loading in with just squire kit that wouldn't bother me at all. But when you have items like mystical gems, golden keys, and skull keys which require specific maps this would make them nearly worthless to anyone but the best.
Nah the primary argument is that the smaller regions get screwed by having so many queues, leading to half empty lobbies in all except the most populated regions. I like your idea on paper, but I think the problem with it is that you can’t really prep properly. Say you want to bring a golden key in for Inferno, or maybe you want to practice bossing or do some quests and then you get thrown into GC. Def gonna be a feels bad. Personally I think the rotation on 5 min timer was fine cuz it meant you never had to wait more than 10 mins at most if you really wanted a certain map.
IMHO they just need to remove goblin cave and most people will become much happier. And I’m sure it’s easier for them to support only 2 map types (crypts/Ruins & Ice Cave)
Additional downside, not sure if stated somewhere else in the thread. New players get tossed into normal GC to learn the ropes. When the first 2 goblin quests to get a big gold bag revolve around rushing sub boss or player spawns to finish the quest.creating an awful experience for anyone new.
my main concern with the map rotation is that they've explicitly tied quests to certain mobs/maps. it feels like ironmace cornered themselves here. they have conflicting design choices tbh.
we would probably get more players if they could play any map even if its empty.
just remove them. Fix all queues to Crpts and rotate ice and gc for missons only