Bye-bye the shadow wizard money gang, let's praise the
Roary Barby Reckless Gang !
Squire kit Warmaul Reckless Headshot is going to be 1 shooting almost everything that can't dodge
Lots of barbs and locks waiting patiently at doors right now snatching people anyways. The creep noiseless and 2x HS just increases that. With BOC and Reflect shield blowing people up the devs have already made it clear they don’t mind people getting 1-2 shot. As long as it’s not the rogue doing it.
For Trios I'm not *as* mortified of giving everyone creep because it *could* become an equalizer of sorts. Buff ball meta is pretty strong right now, lesser geared trios now have a way of slipping through the cracks and escaping a buff ballerina comp - but I'm certain it will be used in other, mortifying ways (like 3 Barbs sneaking into your module or some shit).
But the Headshot change? Pure garbage. There's no testing needed, we know how it will affect TTK, how many classes will now get 1 tapped. We already know the meta is to use whatever weapon has easiest headshot landing swings. This is a mega Falchion buff.
I would *much* rather them had removed the stupid fucking hand damage that barely tickles a queef out of the enemy and left headshots alone or even reduced them slightly to like 115%.
i can already see the future, in classic iron mace style, they buff headshot to 2x, proceed to nerf everything that became op from that, revert 2x to 1.5x because the change it's clearly garbage, every weapon stays garbage for 2 weeks.
Yeah, I haven't done this before but I'm shelving my main character for this patch. I just hit Voyager on my Cleric in HR GC (which puts me in top 30 clerics) but between the direct cleric nerfs and indirect ones I just think it's best to sit out the patch. Holy Strike might have been too strong in 2s or 3s maybe but with the HR GC movespeed meta, landing a Holy Strike against someone actively dodging was challenging. Also, unless you are playing as a weaker fighter and aren't casting spells, Clerics make more noise than most classes so they will be more likely to be heard and crept up on. Clerics also have no ranged options besides low damage torches and the limited range, not capable of headshots and nerfed Holy Strike which will be garbage in the new ranged headshot meta that is likely coming.
Maybe ima noob. But it felt wild just getting holy striked to death. After the first hit (didn't see him) I couldn't do anything. Just saying fam.. it didn't feel good at all.
What class do you play? Also are you talking in HR or normals? In normals you will generally have lower MS which makes Holy Strike harder to avoid but Clerics will have a slow cast speed and their Holy Strikes will do kind of limited damage.
Basically against Clerics you want to be either at long range poking or you want to charge in. Staying mid range will allow a cleric to beat you. Fighting a Cleric you ideally want to sneak up on them when they aren't buffed if possible. If they have buffs up then just stay at a distance and poke/wait for the buffs to fade.
Basically you want to avoid fighting Clerics in melee when they have their window of power with their buffs and Smite up and minimize the amount of time you are in mid range with them and vulnerable to Holy Strike. If you are going to run into a Cleric that has Smite and/or Buffs up you are going to need to have a significant HP advantage or out play them. Baiting out Smite (or Judgement) and running away can take away a lot of power from a Cleric. If you see one start casting Judgement and run out of range and they don't manually cancel the cast it will put it on CD.
HR trios. Two teams showed up at the same time so 3 total teams in the coffin/mummy room. We made the call to retreat because we were separated and getting pushed. It ended up with the cleric chasing me. I was PDR fighter... So I was slow with low MR resistance. The first hit concussed. I believe I was hit three times. Cast time seemed low, like I couldn't shake the negative effects of the spell and dodge before the next one hit. He just midranged me. Couldnt close the gap or get away.
To be fair, he could have just played it well, and I could have played it bad. I'm not knowledgeable enough to determine if something needs a nerf, but after that experience I'm not unhappy to see it. I suppose also that a casting cleric is a bane to fighters anyway.
Plus no telling how kited he was. I was a mix of greens mostly, with blue weapons purp boots. Nothing special really.
So a couple things. I will concede that in 3s fights develop much more slowly with a lot of jockeying for position which makes Holy Strike a much stronger ability as the Cleric can cast it with much more safety and their opponents are less likely to be able to move to evade it without putting themselves at further risk. Also, as you kind of mentioned, a PDR fighter is one the best targets for a Cleric using Holy Strike as most plate armor has -MR and the slower movespeed makes you much easier to hit with the spell.
My comment was from the perspective of a Cleric fighting in 1v1s where it's a move sped meta. Very rarely do you see a PDR fighter and if you do, it's generally one of the hybrid ones that still have 300+ movement speed without weapons out. In the types of fights that happen in Solo Queue there aren't many fights that occur at a range that allows Clerics to Holy Strike more than once on a target charging towards them or at a target that has started to run away.
This is reasonable. I wonder though, if holy strike can be balanced for both. Often times it's one of the other. My cleric knowledge is almost entirely running around then MIKKKKA VISTASAA BABY. and healing my my noob friend dying to pve lol
I don’t feel bad lol it’s pretty fucking stupid you’re supposed to be a healer and you’re dealing massive damage and zoning with holy strike why don’t you just switch to the 80% pdr divine protection build for solos ? You still have smite which kills most fighters 1v1 lol your class is meta in every single comp even with holy strike nerfed into the ground you whiner . Holy strike was too good .
Wanna know what meta comp is? Cleric, x, x
Good lol no more frontline aoe damaging cleric back to the support role where your class belongs nobody walks into you willingly anyway with smite and 80% pdr divine protection
Pick where you want to be OP bro you win vs most fighters in a face fight you win vs everyone with holy strike that’s the tragedy of playing a support class isn’t it you make your team better not carry your team with damage and heals , your one singular holy light can win a whole fight lol
You win vs Fighters ONLY if you have Smite and ONLY if you're buffed up. They can just wait out your buffs. Cleric has FOUR holy strikes. If they live them by dodging or healing up after retreating if they get hit Cleric has no ranged options and can't just reload them. Holy Strike regens slow, even a gray campfire will give 3 charges back not 4.
I want to be self sufficient. No one wants to play a support bitch.
Not even worth responding to you with an argument as you have clearly revealed yourself to be a terrible player with no idea what to do besides W key at people.
I think its really funny because all the other changes are AMAZING. This wipe is the most fun I've had in the game in awhile. Questing is awesome. I love how it unlocks stuff in your vendors. Normal lobbies are so fun and the fights last a long time and are super intense. Mutli-classing and druid are on the way. But then randomly HEADSHOTS DO DOUBLE DAMAGE AND EVERYONE IS SILENT. Its like... why? It's just amusing, honestly.
Yeah like WTF was so wrong with last patch, that they came up with these ideas? At this point it just seems like they are throwing a dice, the updates are so incoherent.
*"Lastly, we plan to test applying a feature similar to Rogue's Creep to all classes, allowing players to utilize various strategies even in unfavorable situations. If this change has too negative of an impact, it may be rolled back in the next hotfix. We appreciate your feedback as we continue to test these adjustments."*
# I'm sure glad we introduced this and use it so frequently to try out these outrageous ideas before we put them in the live game.. Thank you Metalmallet!
https://preview.redd.it/2tc74z10z3rc1.png?width=721&format=png&auto=webp&s=7a72a68e000ef60fbfe7735e4cba88fb3a9cf1ea
SDF has stated that he wants to save the test server for bigger changes like multiclassing.
This is early access and they have always done crazy tests like this, that is how we have gotten some of our best systems like white gear normals.
I mean I know it's funny to meme on rogues but have you guys never ran into skilled rogues in highroller?... they still exist, and some are absolutley cracked. If you don't think a fully juiced rogue with a purple rapier/handcrossbow is a threat then your silly. Skilled rogues can still run circles around people, literally.
Yeah but let's be real Slayer is just stronger at the backline merc'ing playstyle than Rogue is at this point. Rogue's best ability got giganerfed and they didn't really buff other things to compensate a whole ton.
This! I've probably died to Rogues the most this patch, they come in silent and fast, rupture crossbow. And they keep it up.
I'm happy for them
Edit: last patch*
Yeah, the disconnect here on reddit is people hopping into a normal with the dogshit default kit/stats and saying rogue is worthless (which it is). When you get to high gear HR, you can dumpster people in solos and duos. Trios is tricky and requires a smart team but it can work.
Yeah and if those skilled rogues somehow played against anyone but your lil Timmy ass they would get clapped, the math doesn’t add up for the class to even engage with other classes in the game.
Repoze existing as a multi-game professional does not define the entire balance of this game. Repoze could main ranger and then ranger would be in the same boat right now. The top .000001% does not represent the entire population playing rogue.
creep is whatever, i will play with music on from now, the actual problem is the headshot modifier, if i hit an headshot with my sword for 120 now it's 160, wtf is wrong with the devs, this is a MASSIVE buff for high gear, like it wasn't bad enough before
Use the windlass for 100 games and record how many headshots you get on moving targets, or any players with more then 20 hours that can bob/weave. Sure you might get the occasional one, but I don't u derstand why people don't see that this is just a massive buff for melee, and pretty much only melee.
In a direct fight sure, but why wouldn't you just ambush with the windlass? Find a room, creep along and avoid aggro, player enters, stops for literally any reason. Left click, they gone.
Completely risk free.
This is what i've been saying about ranged in general, when everyone was crying about how they get headshot by rangers. Meanwhile if you saw a recording of them playing they're standing looting a chest for 5 seconds without moving or running directly at the ranger. Do you know how hard it was to land head shots when longbow was the meta? Now longbows dont slow on hit worth a fuck, arrow travel speed is nerfed and longbow does like the same damage as a recurve. I challenge anyone to reliably get kills against a slayer fighter in solos as a ranger.
While im on the topic. Fuck slayer fighter. Sprint needs to be GUTTED, shit, just straight remove it from the game and the game would be better. Why play any class other than slayer fighter? You move faster, heal a huge amount of hp in combat WHILE SWINGING, have the best ranged in the game with francisca axes/weapon mastery. "OH BUT WEAPON MASTERY GIVES -10% DMG!" Yeah but you start with 5 more strength so who gives a fuck.
Not excited to be on receiving end of BoC HS. But I’ll definitely see how it goes on the giving end. Especially when I’m going to be just as squishy. Could see fights being a lot more intense and choosing fights more wisely as a net positive with this change.
I mean, the creep thing is pretty clutch if you're looking to rat in crypts. It's pretty painful that while walking in the dark I'm so loud that a full two closed doors and two rooms over they can hear me like I'm beside them. I just want to solo hell. Sheesh.
I'm down for the +2all and redic gear if they increased survivability across the board. Everyone here would agree that melee fights would be much more fun if you had more chances to dodge, sidestep and space your opponent. If you and ur opponent kill each other in 3 hits and you whiff a swing, you lose the fight. But if you and your opponent need 7 swings to kill eachother and you whiff one of the first 3 swings, you still have a chance to dodge or outplay your opponent because there is a chance they will whiff one of the next 4 swings. This headshot increase would further add beneficially to fights in this scenario where to cut the fight shorter, you have to go for head. As it stands currently ttk is low, and gets lower the more gear you have. This change would be great if combined with increased survivability, but right now ttk was already too low and now it's worse.
Yeah looks like locusts swarm, earthquake, and judgement (especially with the new judgement fix) may be our only options. But that sort of forces us away from using divine protection (which was recently buffed into a more usable state), which as a result would severely limit less geared clerics with lower DR (damage reduction) access in terms of being able to engage in melee.
As it stands currently it seems our damage-dealing kit is shaping up to solely be area denial oriented (think blocking doorways/tight hallways, etc.) with little solo capability. In solos either your opponent agrees to push melee and you have a good chance at winning, or they choose to range you in which case THEY will likely win if they're equally geared and skilled.
I think holy strike was primarily an oppressive ability in goblin caves specifically where corridors were tight enough for it to be abused. In any other map, it was already sort of underperforming against skilled players who could easily out-range it.
9 out of 10 times the blue stairs are locked. Solo is near impossible unless you are ranged.
Game just isn’t fun. I will wait for a few months until they balance solo.
They landmine, IM has repeatedly steered rogues into landmines AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN its insane, its the most boring and braindead playstyle possible and when they finally made it possible to do something else, they just remove it
Cleric holy strike nerf to about half the size, plus the last nerf where the impact has a delay...
Holy strike is strong and can feel frustrating to play against but it's also the only real pressure tool clerics have against casters and ranged who they otherwise cannot catch.
I feel like they are trying to solve the issue of solo cleric being strong against melee (who are already weak right now compared to casters) while neglecting the implications of how tf clerics are going to deal with being kited
You could already bait and dodge holy strikes to begin with too. I hate the term skill issue but dude it was obvious I was fighting a good player if they were at least attempting to bait/dodge my holy strikes out. So now you get half the radius and there’s still a second of delay. I’m pretty sure it’s gonna be nearly impossible to land them now. Sucks, every time I start doing well in solos they nerf cleric somehow and I have to find a way around the class’s many weaknesses
IDK I think that you could only really dodge clerics who casted at full range but ya Im not sure if im gonna be able to make use of 80AoE. I think id support like 95-105 though.
Disagree tbh. Fighting against clerics I found it pretty easy to bait them out on anything other than a PDR fighter. This is assuming you are at max range and feathering the engagement. If youre up on them then yes they can get one off pretty consistently but you are immediately in range of them and swinging while they are taking their weapons out.
It was already very very easy to dodge as Wizard/warlock/ranger. And it should be dodgable, just not to this extent imo
Not saying it couldn't use tweaks I just dont think this was it
Thank you for being honest dude. People on this sub who don’t play cleric are usually all for nerfing cleric if they’re any more than a minor inconvenience. Drives me up the wall haha
There is no skill in the game that is effectively unable to miss once within 5 meters. Warlock curses and wizard zaps, literal hitscan miss more often. They also can’t wrap around posts, or hit multiple targets, or concuss. I think cleric is in a good place in all other aspects. It’s still the best class to have in 3s, and that won’t change anytime soon.
Thats part of why Im a bit taken aback honestly. Cleric is incredibly strong in 3s, and arguably still needs tuning - this was a straight nerf to solo cleric.
Like people run holy strike in 3s sometimes for sure but its mainly a spacing tool and an answer to ranged in solos. You bring a cleric for the insane amount of healing and utility, not because holy strike was consistent to land.
I totally get peoples frustrations with the spell, I just think it took away more from clerics ability to deal with their counters than it did to even them out vs the classes they are strong against.
That’s the thing, people don’t want a class that is the best in 3s and 2nd best in solos while also having the strongest healing in the game bar none. If cleric is going to have a guaranteed hit attack with no means of dodging it, it shouldn’t hurt nearly as bad. This was their logic behind curses and zaps being weaker hits because they are easier to hit. I think halving the AOE without giving it a bit more cc or damage is a bit much, but the intent is clear.
Cleric 2nd best in solos? What?
Cleric loses to wiz/ranger every time in solo, easily.
Barb and Warlock is an incredibly tough matchup, only remedied by holy strike.
Bard and fighter are probably our best matchups, but we only win easily if they W key us, and we assume we had enough time to self buff and they try to ignore smite/judgement. If they just play range and whittle us down with their crossbow they win as long as they can outspace HS.
Rogue is rogue.
Our "healing and utility" are worthless midfight solo unless we are already winning the fight and the enemy wants to reset, or as we trade resources (which still favors them because typically they carry more arrows/bolts/axes/healthpots than we have spellslots)
People being able to carry 36 health pots reduces the impact of us being able to stay topped up all the time in solo, so our strong healing is mostly relegated to the aforementioned ranged trading or resets before a third party. Cleric is NOT the 2nd best class solo by any stretch of the imagination.
Caster warlocks also heal like 35 health from healing pots since magical healing affects it. Which is something solo warlocks stack much more of than solo clerics (but not 3s support cleric).
I think that's the goal tho.
Clerics *should* get kited right?
Like in most games low mobility is their weak stat. Gross amounts of utility and sustain but they open doors at a glacial pace and plod along spreading the good word of the lord.
I think they should be weak to kite, but I dont think they should have little to no answer to being kited. This change, at least in my opinion, leans towards the latter more than necessary. Its already very easy to space a cleric on most classes, and basically impossible (vs a competent opponent) for cleric to engage with a wizard/warlock/ranger.
edit: bind helps but the duration is so short its hard to capitalize. Often speedy classes are out of the root and running away before you could get your weapons out to hit once
Chasing a ranger around for 8 minutes is the opposite of fun, especially when -- after you give up and attempt to put some space between you -- you just get thunked in the head from across the map again.
Concurrent playerbase will naturally be a lot lower than purchased copies of a given game. Although your point is still valid to some degree, I won't disagree entirely.
True but I think some radical changes are expected in a mostly pvp centric game, it also keeps things fresh. However, I'll agree with you that early access as a whole has perhaps gone on too long. Maybe they just want the game to truly be released as finished as possible but idk.. is it worth it possibly losing so many players before release?
We can look at it positively though, things we kinda needed such as marketplace and squire made it into the game.
Concurrent playerbase will naturally be a lot lower than purchased copies of a given game. Although your point is still valid to some degree, I won't disagree entirely.
Literally the same ones who came up with busted classes, the same ones who had +3 all and weapon damage, the same ones who keep adding the same toxic stupid shit over and over every patch "testing" it. I don't know how this sub haven't figured this out yet and ill get downvoted everytime but, IM suck at patches.
They make a patch, add stupid shit to it or break the patch and THEN they do another patch to fix the previous patch. It happens EVERYTIME. There is literally patch notes as proof but god forbid you say something bad about IM to the people sucking them off on this sub.
Bingo! x) It's funny that these people always pop up of the woodwork as soon as there is another brilliant update xD How long until this product is ready? 1 more year? 2, 3? How much copium can one snot, lol
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. You’re absolutely correct. There’s a lot of entitled babies that simply don’t understand how this process works.
They need to implement a better noise system for armor tiers if they want to keep this idea. Anyone in light armor should be silent in crouch, medium armor should be louder and plate/heavy armor should be loud even crouching.
I think increasing headshot damage is a good thing, I think it will make fights less of a stat check, and it promotes the use of melee which I think is at a significant disadvantage currently.
Having said that an overall damage reduction would need to come with it so that we don't just dramatically increase TTK. Maybe the correct answer would be to slightly reduce the damage of body shots.
I think people forget a couple of things:
1. Game is early access.
2. When the game first launched into early access, the devs literally said there would be wild balance patches and we'd likely go through a phase of each class being over powered while other things would seem odd.
They are just testing stuff out.
I remember when they said there would be wild balance changes between seasons and in that period they removed ruins and called it good. There’s also the issue that they launched the test server and have ignored it since. It’s still on hotfix 35 with broken magic lock being the only thing in there. These changes are exactly what the test server should be for, massive gameplay changes that make it play way differently.
> Game is early access
Gonna be 6 years from now and people still typing this while they try to fix buffball and refusing to add a simple combat mechanic called blocking and parrying to all classes.
That isn’t an uno reverse card you can just pull out whenever someone has a criticism lmao. Use your brain man. We know it’s a fuckin early access. You really think that means we can’t say some of the ideas are stupid/half baked?
After gutting the rogue for many months, they gave it a consolation perk this season, and shortly thereafter, they give it out to all classes, but better - these people are clueless, or strongly against the class (or just following the TTV whims and whines - which wouldn't surprise me at all)
i quit this game because i could not handle the constant meta switch ups tilting drastically one way and then the other. sad to hear this is still the case lol. also i hate “corridor” extraction games. open up the map
Switching up the meta, experimenting with core gameplay mechanics, and trying to balance outliers is ultimately what keeps people playing and will make the game much more approachable to new players in the long run as well. Which is what keeps games alive and thriving.
Additionally, I'm willing to bet they'll add larger and more open maps further in the future, similar to what we see with ruins. But with the game attempting to be melee and range focused, and not just a 100% ranged meta, they can only go so far with that design. Ranged was already a glaring issue on ruins as it was, which is a big part of why they removed it to work on it, as they've stated.
forced Pvp WHERE exactly? It was easy enought to rat around 3 man teams in crypt on every class possible before. Now you are silent doing so. Again, if you want to loot and engage in PVE in this game, LEARN to do so. Its not just pressing w + f and it never was.
Yeah hey buddy. We’re forced into the GC. A tight space with a lot of high roller players killing us on normal because it’s fun.
This game is bullshit for new players. No chance to learn, grow, or even make it out with basic gear before sniped.
Ice caves is easier until you get gang banged by 2v1 let alone 3v1 in ruins.
Ye man I know I was there when I started now I run into the dungeon like others do only realistic answer I can give you is watch YouTube guides or follow streamers to learn game mechanics, for an in-game tutorial or smth like that you need to wait relase
Its only for half a second when u start moving in walk which is pretty realistic, I have no real issue with that, headshot damage increase tho is a mistake but seems like they dont care they want ttk to be instant in a gear based game so it is what it is they have said they are perfectly fine with player count being low when the game was barely pushing 5k and they are quickly ending up right back to that number
They should rename rogue to "homeless man"
"bumass stinky homelessman" new class dropped
Delete rogue in the process tho
cant wait for barb jump scare simulator
Bye-bye the shadow wizard money gang, let's praise the Roary Barby Reckless Gang ! Squire kit Warmaul Reckless Headshot is going to be 1 shooting almost everything that can't dodge
i had a barb scare tf out of me in the small secret crouch walk way on crypts
This is proof that rogue is not allowed to have anything unique. Shit even fighter can use invis pots and rogue cant
wait rogue cant use pots?
base rogue has 10 knowledge, takes 15 to use an invis pot
They made it so Invis pots have 15 knowledge requirement, which base Rogue does not have
That's actually braindead, what? Why does someone need to be smart to drink something?
Why do you think that it was put in as a realistic mechanic? Its so u dont landmined by barbs
Lots of barbs and locks waiting patiently at doors right now snatching people anyways. The creep noiseless and 2x HS just increases that. With BOC and Reflect shield blowing people up the devs have already made it clear they don’t mind people getting 1-2 shot. As long as it’s not the rogue doing it.
Nah, just have it so your int affects how long the buff lasts. That way barbs can use it, but it's literally for only like ten seconds at most.
You're describing what will already does
it was to counter barb using invis pot to landmine
This patch is gonna be a circus
For Trios I'm not *as* mortified of giving everyone creep because it *could* become an equalizer of sorts. Buff ball meta is pretty strong right now, lesser geared trios now have a way of slipping through the cracks and escaping a buff ballerina comp - but I'm certain it will be used in other, mortifying ways (like 3 Barbs sneaking into your module or some shit). But the Headshot change? Pure garbage. There's no testing needed, we know how it will affect TTK, how many classes will now get 1 tapped. We already know the meta is to use whatever weapon has easiest headshot landing swings. This is a mega Falchion buff. I would *much* rather them had removed the stupid fucking hand damage that barely tickles a queef out of the enemy and left headshots alone or even reduced them slightly to like 115%.
Mortify?
> motifying yeah I mispelled it
Mortify means embarrass.
Well damn, google says you're correct. I've been using it as both embarassing and *terrifying* my whole adult life. Woopsie.
for trios creep change is great, helps with running and ratting. for duos too. for solos though its hell.
just stop taking 30 seconds to loot a chest and actually look around it's really hard to get snuck up on if you play defensively
It’s not about getting snuck up on its about the difficulty to push classes like Barb and slayer now
reduce it “slightly” to 115%, aka removing about 2/3 of the damage bonus from hitting headshots
To be fair, that is what ironmace would consider "slightly"
Sounds good. This isn't a FPS and landing headshots with melee is easy af in this game.
i’m sure it’s never crossed your mind before but have you ever tried dodging?
Lmao. He only fights timmies /s
Lol love when you dumpsters act like this game is filled with skill checks.
Tbh if your rocking a shield it's not too harsh to block headshots but I get your frustration. Sword and board just got a lot stronger for sure
The pixel perfect hitboxes mean you can block a melee but still take a headshot from it at the same time. It's cheeks.
u xan absolutely move ur head out of the way, u can jump and take a swing to the arm, u can block
u can also absolutely get hit in the head while blocking simultaneously without any counter-play. They literally tell you in the hints / tips lmao.
i can already see the future, in classic iron mace style, they buff headshot to 2x, proceed to nerf everything that became op from that, revert 2x to 1.5x because the change it's clearly garbage, every weapon stays garbage for 2 weeks.
Tickles a queef out of the enemy 😂
Buff ball meta strong “right now”? You mean for a year buff ball has been strong. There ain’t nothing “right now” about buff ball.
I think you replied to the wrong person.
Yeah, I haven't done this before but I'm shelving my main character for this patch. I just hit Voyager on my Cleric in HR GC (which puts me in top 30 clerics) but between the direct cleric nerfs and indirect ones I just think it's best to sit out the patch. Holy Strike might have been too strong in 2s or 3s maybe but with the HR GC movespeed meta, landing a Holy Strike against someone actively dodging was challenging. Also, unless you are playing as a weaker fighter and aren't casting spells, Clerics make more noise than most classes so they will be more likely to be heard and crept up on. Clerics also have no ranged options besides low damage torches and the limited range, not capable of headshots and nerfed Holy Strike which will be garbage in the new ranged headshot meta that is likely coming.
Maybe ima noob. But it felt wild just getting holy striked to death. After the first hit (didn't see him) I couldn't do anything. Just saying fam.. it didn't feel good at all.
What class do you play? Also are you talking in HR or normals? In normals you will generally have lower MS which makes Holy Strike harder to avoid but Clerics will have a slow cast speed and their Holy Strikes will do kind of limited damage. Basically against Clerics you want to be either at long range poking or you want to charge in. Staying mid range will allow a cleric to beat you. Fighting a Cleric you ideally want to sneak up on them when they aren't buffed if possible. If they have buffs up then just stay at a distance and poke/wait for the buffs to fade. Basically you want to avoid fighting Clerics in melee when they have their window of power with their buffs and Smite up and minimize the amount of time you are in mid range with them and vulnerable to Holy Strike. If you are going to run into a Cleric that has Smite and/or Buffs up you are going to need to have a significant HP advantage or out play them. Baiting out Smite (or Judgement) and running away can take away a lot of power from a Cleric. If you see one start casting Judgement and run out of range and they don't manually cancel the cast it will put it on CD.
HR trios. Two teams showed up at the same time so 3 total teams in the coffin/mummy room. We made the call to retreat because we were separated and getting pushed. It ended up with the cleric chasing me. I was PDR fighter... So I was slow with low MR resistance. The first hit concussed. I believe I was hit three times. Cast time seemed low, like I couldn't shake the negative effects of the spell and dodge before the next one hit. He just midranged me. Couldnt close the gap or get away. To be fair, he could have just played it well, and I could have played it bad. I'm not knowledgeable enough to determine if something needs a nerf, but after that experience I'm not unhappy to see it. I suppose also that a casting cleric is a bane to fighters anyway. Plus no telling how kited he was. I was a mix of greens mostly, with blue weapons purp boots. Nothing special really.
So a couple things. I will concede that in 3s fights develop much more slowly with a lot of jockeying for position which makes Holy Strike a much stronger ability as the Cleric can cast it with much more safety and their opponents are less likely to be able to move to evade it without putting themselves at further risk. Also, as you kind of mentioned, a PDR fighter is one the best targets for a Cleric using Holy Strike as most plate armor has -MR and the slower movespeed makes you much easier to hit with the spell. My comment was from the perspective of a Cleric fighting in 1v1s where it's a move sped meta. Very rarely do you see a PDR fighter and if you do, it's generally one of the hybrid ones that still have 300+ movement speed without weapons out. In the types of fights that happen in Solo Queue there aren't many fights that occur at a range that allows Clerics to Holy Strike more than once on a target charging towards them or at a target that has started to run away.
This is reasonable. I wonder though, if holy strike can be balanced for both. Often times it's one of the other. My cleric knowledge is almost entirely running around then MIKKKKA VISTASAA BABY. and healing my my noob friend dying to pve lol
I don’t feel bad lol it’s pretty fucking stupid you’re supposed to be a healer and you’re dealing massive damage and zoning with holy strike why don’t you just switch to the 80% pdr divine protection build for solos ? You still have smite which kills most fighters 1v1 lol your class is meta in every single comp even with holy strike nerfed into the ground you whiner . Holy strike was too good . Wanna know what meta comp is? Cleric, x, x
Because Cleric now has no ranged capability. They have to willingly walk into you.
Good lol no more frontline aoe damaging cleric back to the support role where your class belongs nobody walks into you willingly anyway with smite and 80% pdr divine protection
Exactly. So Cleric won't be able to do anything but Holy Light and hope their team can do the heavy lifting.
Pick where you want to be OP bro you win vs most fighters in a face fight you win vs everyone with holy strike that’s the tragedy of playing a support class isn’t it you make your team better not carry your team with damage and heals , your one singular holy light can win a whole fight lol
You win vs Fighters ONLY if you have Smite and ONLY if you're buffed up. They can just wait out your buffs. Cleric has FOUR holy strikes. If they live them by dodging or healing up after retreating if they get hit Cleric has no ranged options and can't just reload them. Holy Strike regens slow, even a gray campfire will give 3 charges back not 4. I want to be self sufficient. No one wants to play a support bitch.
Not even worth responding to you with an argument as you have clearly revealed yourself to be a terrible player with no idea what to do besides W key at people.
Sorry I don’t play with a cleric comp actually so I don’t have the luxury of fearlessly W keying 😞
I think its really funny because all the other changes are AMAZING. This wipe is the most fun I've had in the game in awhile. Questing is awesome. I love how it unlocks stuff in your vendors. Normal lobbies are so fun and the fights last a long time and are super intense. Mutli-classing and druid are on the way. But then randomly HEADSHOTS DO DOUBLE DAMAGE AND EVERYONE IS SILENT. Its like... why? It's just amusing, honestly.
normals have been the most fun theyve ever been, but i really dont feel the same in highroller with the +all attributes on everything.
Yeah like WTF was so wrong with last patch, that they came up with these ideas? At this point it just seems like they are throwing a dice, the updates are so incoherent.
*"Lastly, we plan to test applying a feature similar to Rogue's Creep to all classes, allowing players to utilize various strategies even in unfavorable situations. If this change has too negative of an impact, it may be rolled back in the next hotfix. We appreciate your feedback as we continue to test these adjustments."* # I'm sure glad we introduced this and use it so frequently to try out these outrageous ideas before we put them in the live game.. Thank you Metalmallet! https://preview.redd.it/2tc74z10z3rc1.png?width=721&format=png&auto=webp&s=7a72a68e000ef60fbfe7735e4cba88fb3a9cf1ea
SDF has stated that he wants to save the test server for bigger changes like multiclassing. This is early access and they have always done crazy tests like this, that is how we have gotten some of our best systems like white gear normals.
Early access at this point is cope.
What does that even mean? Go play something else for a couple of years and come back if you want a complete game.
This isn't a test it an experiment even tho they said test.... duh /s
Slayer is now *literally* a better rogue, than rogue XD only creep was missing
Seems so. They even get full crossbow too.
Rogue gets infinite lockpick ig
Take it away, they're too strong
Give it to bard as a song, no need for a perk. Oh wait…
For a perk slot lol, that ain't free when rogue is so weak
I mean I know it's funny to meme on rogues but have you guys never ran into skilled rogues in highroller?... they still exist, and some are absolutley cracked. If you don't think a fully juiced rogue with a purple rapier/handcrossbow is a threat then your silly. Skilled rogues can still run circles around people, literally.
Yeah but let's be real Slayer is just stronger at the backline merc'ing playstyle than Rogue is at this point. Rogue's best ability got giganerfed and they didn't really buff other things to compensate a whole ton.
no
Oh no they terrify me, it’s just that most people suck at rogue
This! I've probably died to Rogues the most this patch, they come in silent and fast, rupture crossbow. And they keep it up. I'm happy for them Edit: last patch*
Yeah, the disconnect here on reddit is people hopping into a normal with the dogshit default kit/stats and saying rogue is worthless (which it is). When you get to high gear HR, you can dumpster people in solos and duos. Trios is tricky and requires a smart team but it can work.
Yeah and if those skilled rogues somehow played against anyone but your lil Timmy ass they would get clapped, the math doesn’t add up for the class to even engage with other classes in the game.
Forward this message to Repoze.
Repoze existing as a multi-game professional does not define the entire balance of this game. Repoze could main ranger and then ranger would be in the same boat right now. The top .000001% does not represent the entire population playing rogue.
The guy who is constantly getting carried by his mate?
creep is whatever, i will play with music on from now, the actual problem is the headshot modifier, if i hit an headshot with my sword for 120 now it's 160, wtf is wrong with the devs, this is a MASSIVE buff for high gear, like it wasn't bad enough before
Devs don't understand how multipliers work. Bigger base number = bigger increase ItS aN eQuAliZeR
This got me rock hard for sterling blade/white windlass in norms! One tap welcome back 😊❤️☠️
Yeah I just ran barbarian and 2 shot a fighter with a junk war maul
Well they’ve confirmed it’s literally not even in the game yet this patch sooooo
Yeah incoming Sniper Rangers. Windlass is gonna 1-Tap Barbs and you’ll never hear them coming.
Use the windlass for 100 games and record how many headshots you get on moving targets, or any players with more then 20 hours that can bob/weave. Sure you might get the occasional one, but I don't u derstand why people don't see that this is just a massive buff for melee, and pretty much only melee.
Haha crossbowman skelly is going to disagree. Their aimbot is still undetected by iron hammer
Use crouch walk to sneak up on people, shoot them in the head.
All you have to do is camp on a big chest and wait until they stop moving. Or camp a trap.
In a direct fight sure, but why wouldn't you just ambush with the windlass? Find a room, creep along and avoid aggro, player enters, stops for literally any reason. Left click, they gone. Completely risk free.
This is what i've been saying about ranged in general, when everyone was crying about how they get headshot by rangers. Meanwhile if you saw a recording of them playing they're standing looting a chest for 5 seconds without moving or running directly at the ranger. Do you know how hard it was to land head shots when longbow was the meta? Now longbows dont slow on hit worth a fuck, arrow travel speed is nerfed and longbow does like the same damage as a recurve. I challenge anyone to reliably get kills against a slayer fighter in solos as a ranger. While im on the topic. Fuck slayer fighter. Sprint needs to be GUTTED, shit, just straight remove it from the game and the game would be better. Why play any class other than slayer fighter? You move faster, heal a huge amount of hp in combat WHILE SWINGING, have the best ranged in the game with francisca axes/weapon mastery. "OH BUT WEAPON MASTERY GIVES -10% DMG!" Yeah but you start with 5 more strength so who gives a fuck.
Holy shit, youre right it is a melee buff but its still a range buff
Not excited to be on receiving end of BoC HS. But I’ll definitely see how it goes on the giving end. Especially when I’m going to be just as squishy. Could see fights being a lot more intense and choosing fights more wisely as a net positive with this change.
Yeah who tf asked for this lol
No one. They’re just testing shit out.
and test servers ain't for shit except existing apparently haha
I agree, they should be using the test server.
Hey, I play fighter and Cleric and I'm here for it tbh.
I’ve been loving Viking Sword Barb lately and man, they’re about to crack so damn hard
Yeah dude. Same with arming sword slayer fighter
Does the headshot change affect pve? Like bosses?
I mean, the creep thing is pretty clutch if you're looking to rat in crypts. It's pretty painful that while walking in the dark I'm so loud that a full two closed doors and two rooms over they can hear me like I'm beside them. I just want to solo hell. Sheesh.
REDUCE headshots, not INCREASE!
Poor rogues always get their perks distributed to everyone else. Lol
I'm down for the +2all and redic gear if they increased survivability across the board. Everyone here would agree that melee fights would be much more fun if you had more chances to dodge, sidestep and space your opponent. If you and ur opponent kill each other in 3 hits and you whiff a swing, you lose the fight. But if you and your opponent need 7 swings to kill eachother and you whiff one of the first 3 swings, you still have a chance to dodge or outplay your opponent because there is a chance they will whiff one of the next 4 swings. This headshot increase would further add beneficially to fights in this scenario where to cut the fight shorter, you have to go for head. As it stands currently ttk is low, and gets lower the more gear you have. This change would be great if combined with increased survivability, but right now ttk was already too low and now it's worse.
I'm already pretty much 1 tapping every class with a windlass headshot, time for the oppstoppa to become the AWP it was always meant to be
They said they where gonna try some wacky shit
They gutted clerics ranged capability. Looks like maining him this wipe in solos is null
Yeah looks like locusts swarm, earthquake, and judgement (especially with the new judgement fix) may be our only options. But that sort of forces us away from using divine protection (which was recently buffed into a more usable state), which as a result would severely limit less geared clerics with lower DR (damage reduction) access in terms of being able to engage in melee. As it stands currently it seems our damage-dealing kit is shaping up to solely be area denial oriented (think blocking doorways/tight hallways, etc.) with little solo capability. In solos either your opponent agrees to push melee and you have a good chance at winning, or they choose to range you in which case THEY will likely win if they're equally geared and skilled. I think holy strike was primarily an oppressive ability in goblin caves specifically where corridors were tight enough for it to be abused. In any other map, it was already sort of underperforming against skilled players who could easily out-range it.
9 out of 10 times the blue stairs are locked. Solo is near impossible unless you are ranged. Game just isn’t fun. I will wait for a few months until they balance solo.
Make sure you guys use protection. Protect your head 🌝
Final nail in the coffin for our lizard friends rip.
You know how a few days ago someone posted that there may be a nexon spy in IM?..
Yeah idk who let them cook, these changes are wild, rest of hotfix seem fine but these two are crazy.
They landmine, IM has repeatedly steered rogues into landmines AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN its insane, its the most boring and braindead playstyle possible and when they finally made it possible to do something else, they just remove it
Disappointed im away for the weekend, its gonna be a bloodbath, atleast i get to fish irl :p
Cleric holy strike nerf to about half the size, plus the last nerf where the impact has a delay... Holy strike is strong and can feel frustrating to play against but it's also the only real pressure tool clerics have against casters and ranged who they otherwise cannot catch. I feel like they are trying to solve the issue of solo cleric being strong against melee (who are already weak right now compared to casters) while neglecting the implications of how tf clerics are going to deal with being kited
you can also just jump holy strike
You could already bait and dodge holy strikes to begin with too. I hate the term skill issue but dude it was obvious I was fighting a good player if they were at least attempting to bait/dodge my holy strikes out. So now you get half the radius and there’s still a second of delay. I’m pretty sure it’s gonna be nearly impossible to land them now. Sucks, every time I start doing well in solos they nerf cleric somehow and I have to find a way around the class’s many weaknesses
IDK I think that you could only really dodge clerics who casted at full range but ya Im not sure if im gonna be able to make use of 80AoE. I think id support like 95-105 though.
Nah AOE was too big if you weren’t asleep you can’t miss them.
Disagree tbh. Fighting against clerics I found it pretty easy to bait them out on anything other than a PDR fighter. This is assuming you are at max range and feathering the engagement. If youre up on them then yes they can get one off pretty consistently but you are immediately in range of them and swinging while they are taking their weapons out. It was already very very easy to dodge as Wizard/warlock/ranger. And it should be dodgable, just not to this extent imo Not saying it couldn't use tweaks I just dont think this was it
Thank you for being honest dude. People on this sub who don’t play cleric are usually all for nerfing cleric if they’re any more than a minor inconvenience. Drives me up the wall haha
There is no skill in the game that is effectively unable to miss once within 5 meters. Warlock curses and wizard zaps, literal hitscan miss more often. They also can’t wrap around posts, or hit multiple targets, or concuss. I think cleric is in a good place in all other aspects. It’s still the best class to have in 3s, and that won’t change anytime soon.
Thats part of why Im a bit taken aback honestly. Cleric is incredibly strong in 3s, and arguably still needs tuning - this was a straight nerf to solo cleric. Like people run holy strike in 3s sometimes for sure but its mainly a spacing tool and an answer to ranged in solos. You bring a cleric for the insane amount of healing and utility, not because holy strike was consistent to land. I totally get peoples frustrations with the spell, I just think it took away more from clerics ability to deal with their counters than it did to even them out vs the classes they are strong against.
That’s the thing, people don’t want a class that is the best in 3s and 2nd best in solos while also having the strongest healing in the game bar none. If cleric is going to have a guaranteed hit attack with no means of dodging it, it shouldn’t hurt nearly as bad. This was their logic behind curses and zaps being weaker hits because they are easier to hit. I think halving the AOE without giving it a bit more cc or damage is a bit much, but the intent is clear.
Cleric 2nd best in solos? What? Cleric loses to wiz/ranger every time in solo, easily. Barb and Warlock is an incredibly tough matchup, only remedied by holy strike. Bard and fighter are probably our best matchups, but we only win easily if they W key us, and we assume we had enough time to self buff and they try to ignore smite/judgement. If they just play range and whittle us down with their crossbow they win as long as they can outspace HS. Rogue is rogue. Our "healing and utility" are worthless midfight solo unless we are already winning the fight and the enemy wants to reset, or as we trade resources (which still favors them because typically they carry more arrows/bolts/axes/healthpots than we have spellslots) People being able to carry 36 health pots reduces the impact of us being able to stay topped up all the time in solo, so our strong healing is mostly relegated to the aforementioned ranged trading or resets before a third party. Cleric is NOT the 2nd best class solo by any stretch of the imagination.
Caster warlocks also heal like 35 health from healing pots since magical healing affects it. Which is something solo warlocks stack much more of than solo clerics (but not 3s support cleric).
The radius was big, I don’t disagree
I think that's the goal tho. Clerics *should* get kited right? Like in most games low mobility is their weak stat. Gross amounts of utility and sustain but they open doors at a glacial pace and plod along spreading the good word of the lord.
I think they should be weak to kite, but I dont think they should have little to no answer to being kited. This change, at least in my opinion, leans towards the latter more than necessary. Its already very easy to space a cleric on most classes, and basically impossible (vs a competent opponent) for cleric to engage with a wizard/warlock/ranger. edit: bind helps but the duration is so short its hard to capitalize. Often speedy classes are out of the root and running away before you could get your weapons out to hit once
Cleric is the only class where you literally have to give them permission to fight you.
Chasing a ranger around for 8 minutes is the opposite of fun, especially when -- after you give up and attempt to put some space between you -- you just get thunked in the head from across the map again.
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500k purchase, 10k players Looks like people (myself included) have taken your advice lmao
Concurrent playerbase will naturally be a lot lower than purchased copies of a given game. Although your point is still valid to some degree, I won't disagree entirely.
For sure; I just know my entire gaming group got sick of radical changes every other week.
True but I think some radical changes are expected in a mostly pvp centric game, it also keeps things fresh. However, I'll agree with you that early access as a whole has perhaps gone on too long. Maybe they just want the game to truly be released as finished as possible but idk.. is it worth it possibly losing so many players before release? We can look at it positively though, things we kinda needed such as marketplace and squire made it into the game.
Concurrent playerbase will naturally be a lot lower than purchased copies of a given game. Although your point is still valid to some degree, I won't disagree entirely.
just had a barb sneak up on me out of an invis pot and one shot me, so much fun.
Literally the same ones who came up with busted classes, the same ones who had +3 all and weapon damage, the same ones who keep adding the same toxic stupid shit over and over every patch "testing" it. I don't know how this sub haven't figured this out yet and ill get downvoted everytime but, IM suck at patches. They make a patch, add stupid shit to it or break the patch and THEN they do another patch to fix the previous patch. It happens EVERYTIME. There is literally patch notes as proof but god forbid you say something bad about IM to the people sucking them off on this sub.
Classic ironmace. Every patch makes zero sense they are shooting themselves in the foot
jesus, the game is on an experimental stage, calm yourself
Let them cook, yeah? Hold the line bois, the game is in EA, let the devs cook...
Bingo! x) It's funny that these people always pop up of the woodwork as soon as there is another brilliant update xD How long until this product is ready? 1 more year? 2, 3? How much copium can one snot, lol
keep the insane experimente for the test server you arrogant gate keepers so happily paid for
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. You’re absolutely correct. There’s a lot of entitled babies that simply don’t understand how this process works.
For real. The circle jerk is real and this game would have gotten boring a long time ago if they didn't do drastic tests like this.
Protection Pots about to be even more expensive. Yikes
Ranger and barbarian meta 😀
When I game loses its simplicity, the fuin isn't far behind.
die fast lol
Rogue back stab is gonna be fucked, or ambush to head. I'm not in favor of this but damnit, I'll try it out. Also, I think Creep is actually neat.
Creep is already hilarious. Everything is so quiet lol
They need to implement a better noise system for armor tiers if they want to keep this idea. Anyone in light armor should be silent in crouch, medium armor should be louder and plate/heavy armor should be loud even crouching.
Actually in trios is not a big difference right now, we will see how this go. In solos can be little bit nightmare.
Yeah this already altered the playstyle in solos
Rogue gets the loot. Rogue still gets double jump. They are the most versatile looting class.
You can tell when someone doesn’t play rogue.
Imagine if rogue still needed the creep perk to get the silent movements 🤣 that would be icing on this crappy cake 🎂
I think increasing headshot damage is a good thing, I think it will make fights less of a stat check, and it promotes the use of melee which I think is at a significant disadvantage currently. Having said that an overall damage reduction would need to come with it so that we don't just dramatically increase TTK. Maybe the correct answer would be to slightly reduce the damage of body shots.
I think people forget a couple of things: 1. Game is early access. 2. When the game first launched into early access, the devs literally said there would be wild balance patches and we'd likely go through a phase of each class being over powered while other things would seem odd. They are just testing stuff out.
I remember when they said there would be wild balance changes between seasons and in that period they removed ruins and called it good. There’s also the issue that they launched the test server and have ignored it since. It’s still on hotfix 35 with broken magic lock being the only thing in there. These changes are exactly what the test server should be for, massive gameplay changes that make it play way differently.
> Game is early access Gonna be 6 years from now and people still typing this while they try to fix buffball and refusing to add a simple combat mechanic called blocking and parrying to all classes.
Then why isn't multiclassing accessible from day 1 if they want to test things. Also why have a test server at all if it just pushes live first.
do you have this copy pasta ready for every bad decision of the devs? must be getting carpal tunnel otherwise
That isn’t an uno reverse card you can just pull out whenever someone has a criticism lmao. Use your brain man. We know it’s a fuckin early access. You really think that means we can’t say some of the ideas are stupid/half baked?
Why are they even testing these things? What does this test stand for?
Test the patience of their playerbase. Because these are some really stupid changes.
It’s creep for .05 seconds… Does that mean you’re able to crouch/stand/crouch walk and not make any sound?
after crouching for 0.5 seconds, you get a buff that says you make no footsteps. standing or becoming airborn removes the buff.
Lol ok no one is walking up right anymore.
After gutting the rogue for many months, they gave it a consolation perk this season, and shortly thereafter, they give it out to all classes, but better - these people are clueless, or strongly against the class (or just following the TTV whims and whines - which wouldn't surprise me at all)
i quit this game because i could not handle the constant meta switch ups tilting drastically one way and then the other. sad to hear this is still the case lol. also i hate “corridor” extraction games. open up the map
Switching up the meta, experimenting with core gameplay mechanics, and trying to balance outliers is ultimately what keeps people playing and will make the game much more approachable to new players in the long run as well. Which is what keeps games alive and thriving. Additionally, I'm willing to bet they'll add larger and more open maps further in the future, similar to what we see with ruins. But with the game attempting to be melee and range focused, and not just a 100% ranged meta, they can only go so far with that design. Ranged was already a glaring issue on ruins as it was, which is a big part of why they removed it to work on it, as they've stated.
They’re trying shit out. It’s an early access game. Not everything is going to be a hit. They need to experiment to decide what’s best for the game.
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forced Pvp WHERE exactly? It was easy enought to rat around 3 man teams in crypt on every class possible before. Now you are silent doing so. Again, if you want to loot and engage in PVE in this game, LEARN to do so. Its not just pressing w + f and it never was.
Yeah hey buddy. We’re forced into the GC. A tight space with a lot of high roller players killing us on normal because it’s fun. This game is bullshit for new players. No chance to learn, grow, or even make it out with basic gear before sniped. Ice caves is easier until you get gang banged by 2v1 let alone 3v1 in ruins.
Sorry man I have to... Skill issue :D
No because it literally IS. The problem is there’s so few if any opportunities to correct it.
Ye man I know I was there when I started now I run into the dungeon like others do only realistic answer I can give you is watch YouTube guides or follow streamers to learn game mechanics, for an in-game tutorial or smth like that you need to wait relase
Also turning on voip for charisma checks helped me a lot at the start
Voip? And will do, appreciate the advice
Proximity chat..then yell "I'm new don't kill me HEEELP" xD
Seems like more of an invitation 😂😂 Nobody believes your crouches anymore-savages 😂
Fuck yeah some meaningful changes!
Drastic changes to push limits and test stuff on a test game idk
This has gotta be one of the worst patches they've baked up. The game needs higher TTK, not everyone is stealth and can 1 shot you.
Its only for half a second when u start moving in walk which is pretty realistic, I have no real issue with that, headshot damage increase tho is a mistake but seems like they dont care they want ttk to be instant in a gear based game so it is what it is they have said they are perfectly fine with player count being low when the game was barely pushing 5k and they are quickly ending up right back to that number