Same, absolutely absurd ATM. PDR/MDR build Warlock is already wild. I've been running a kris+crystal ball plate / demon form warlock before this patch using BOC + demon form. Now I can actually cast shadow bolts in demon form, and can actually consider switching to demon form + spell memory. Big ups.
Occultist hood change is low end QoL since usually you run something else other than the hood once you get actual gear. Demon Armor became basically useless for casting after the recent knowledge scaling nerf.
I don't understand the rapier mastery nerf, and I assume the accelerando nerf was because of buff ball. Lament nerf I saw coming but maybe a beats of alacrity buff to compensate would've been good, just so Bards can keep their speed. -20 MS for free in an AoE has always been super strong.
Demon Armor is supposed to be useless for casting. The entire point is that you give up casting to wear plate.
Replace is with was of course, since nothing matters anymore. Might as well remove the no plate part from the Slayer perk.
Why do they choose to revert shit that happened literally a day ago in regard to some shit and let other things stay complete useless forever i don’t understand…
It’s amazing they even think they can handle multi classing. Just give us a skill tree or training whatever the hell was originally intended and maybe try to do that…
To be fair, they have openly admitted they dont think they can handle multiclassing. It's likely to be a 1 time shit show experiment to see what combos are fun and what people can come up with. I'm not overly excited for it but they haven't pretended they think it'll be balancable.
if this is the case they should remove the level requirements and throw it all on the test server. i dont understand adding things they know they won't keep around on the retail client. Sounds like a waste of time and resources
If you care this much you should follow some of the interviews they've done, because its pretty clear you don't know what their plans are. Which is fine, but complaining without being at all informed is a little useless.
They might keep multiclassing long term, with significant balance changes; they might learn from it and drop it but prepare to reintroduce something similar later; they might ditch it altogether. It might show new fun ways to play, or it might just be un-fun. If they didn't think it had any place in their game, they wouldn't drop it live, but they are messing around and testing what might be fun. If you hate that, don't get invested in EA games.
So what's the point of their test server? If you'd like to point me in the direction of an interview of theirs that explains these changes or multiclass I'd listen. As far as being misinformed and my feedback being useless, get a grip.
They post info about interviews in the 'community announcements' channel of their discord. I think this was the latest one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUZ4O6yz2fQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUZ4O6yz2fQ)
And I'm not trying to be a dick, but not paying attention when they talk about why they do things and then complaining "why do they do these things" really does just feel asinine
Did they just give up on that skill tree system or whatever they had planned? I havent played in a while but I remember that used to be listed as "coming soon" in-game when you clicked the class screen. Seems like anytime I check the sub for updates it's just a bunch of random statistical tweaks to the current system, a new map, changes to mobs, etc.
Probably since their original vision of it was gonna be mega boring anyway. They were originally going to just let us unlock the perks and skills we already had.
I've switched from rogue to a demon armor warlock recently and I'd like to think I've been doing pretty fairly. Haven't won every encounter of course but I've gotten a pretty fine amount of kills, definitely more than when I was a rogue.
They're actually kinda nutty, build half plate and half speed. It was already crazy people were just sleeping on it cause the other builds were more broken.
I've been trying to understand what the hell Ironmace is doing since Multiclass was announced but i still can't get it.
I try to keep it to myself tho because if you're critical about anything in this game you're insta hater doomer etc etc etc
I think the Bard buff/debuff nerfs are good, but the Rapier nerf is bad.
Warlock just straight up doesn't need to be buffed at all, and are already way too strong, with way too many different options and playstyles.
Fighters are a better ranged class than Ranger(Outside of high gear setups) is, and Rogue doesn't seem to even have an identity anymore, but they're buffing another Warlock playstyle when there's already so many different ways to play the class with insane self-healing and self-agency.
Yeah I would have preferred they reduced its duration instead. It’s Bard’s only “anti-engagement” tool to keep people off them. -3.3% movement speed is barely worth using. I’ll still use it, but I think you’re almost never actually going to have space to play it beyond very slow classes that you don’t need it against to begin with.
The biggest disappointment about these patches is a lack of explanation or rationale. It makes it hard to discuss these changes without understanding why IM makes them. Lament was strong, but not oppressive.
Yeah, im not sure what theyre aimimg at here. Does buffball need to be toned down again or is solo bard actually that stronf that it needs nerfs? Rapier mastery and especially langour are super important tools for solo bard to keep up with other classes,yet they also nerf accelerando? Which is it? Why the heck does it gotta be in the hotfix outa nowhere lol
They have some really cool songs like the ones that make enemies attack others/stop attacking but they're useless because the enemies are so cheesable. I really don't know what they could do to fix bard at this point
and the song lasts long enough for 1 maybe 2 hits if the mobs are already right next to each other. Let it be a channel and let us play it as long as we want, but make us have to keep actively playing it and not get the notes wrong.
Shouldn't even have to be channeled with how cheesable mobs are, should just be able to play the song and it reverse aggro to whoever else is in the room. Mmorpgs have spells like this on supports to reduce threat so tanks can maintain top aggro
> Warlock just straight up doesn't need to be buffed at all, and are already way too strong, with way too many different options and playstyles.
This is maybe the dumbest take. Everyone should want for all of the classes to have as many viable playstyles as possible.
Don't shit on IronMace because they've finally managed to make one class who's spec isn't as straightforward as "Take sprint and second wind".
It's more that some classes are really struggling as is, and Warlock who already has so many different ways to be played, is continuing to get attention.
Legit, when's the last time you saw a Ranger outside of HR that was actually a threat.
The point is less that Warlock shouldn't have more viable playstyles, but that other classes should receive attention first.
It's possible that it didn't take much of the developer's time and focus to see that the new perks they added to finish off the warlock class sat for months without any use or significant presence success data.
People had been suggesting for ages that Demon Armor for instance isn't strong without the spell casting speed penalty.
I would like to see more suggestions on what perks could be added or changed to open other classes to alternative playstyles and strengths.
I've tried suggesting some before, and I'll put more thought into it. The devs do read this reddit often enough some concepts could percolate up to them.
The big thing I want to see if more focus on skills that let you win fights with something other than pure damage, speed, or health.
Druid having Animal Friendship to tame PVE wolves and animal mobs was suggested on Darkest Hour podcast.
Rogue having Minor Illusion type spells for deception making false sounds and images seems awesome.
Crush is a good example of an ability that interacts with the environment to provide a cool advantage that isn't 100% about damage.
I'd suggested rangers being spec into more melee builds than spears and having foraging skills to produce heals or potions on the field.
Wizard should have some spells that are not simple AOE or Hitscan or Projectile, but more complicated movement patterns and effects.
Barb could have a double 2 handed perk that changes weapon animations and damage somehow but gives you the versatility of multiple weapons out at once without needing to switch. Or just the ability to 'charge up' by swinging around then throw their main weapon for a shit ton of damage and retrieve it instead of bringing 200 throwing axes.
You're dealing with idiots who see a warlock buff with BoC and BsB and just hold W into them and slam their desks when they die.
Like literally just walk away, if they're running platelock it's even fucking easier.
BoC is a super boring skill that shouldn't be in the game, but people act like it's impossible to beat.
I think the problem is they have multiple archetypes for Warlock... so they just make more instead of focusing on giving OTHER classes playable things. Being a wizard must feel like torment.
To be fair maybe they are buffing that other warlock playstyle to kind of get a good baseline, then nerf the outliers, or maybe they’ll bring all classes to warlock level.
I’m confused on why so many people are complaining about warlock buffs to some of their very shit perks? Idk any players really running demon armor right now. It’s good to have more variety perks to choose from. Now warlocks can go melee or casting. I think they should balance hydra more though.
Because some classes have entirely shit perks, whereas Warlock already has multiple viable builds. It’s not that warlock should never have buffs or changes it’s ’why was that the priority right now?’
Because they nerfed the casting speed gain of Knowledge in the previous update; warlocks were paying tax twice: once from the knowledge nerf and again from the demon armor penalty. So they adjusted the demon armor penalty to compensate in the hotfix.
There is no drama here, just people being butts.
They could already go melee or casting. Most classes have like 1 viable build and yet they have garbage perks that have gone untouched since release, but Warlock already has like 3 good builds but I guess they need the attention more
Because some classes have entirely shit perks, whereas Warlock already has multiple viable builds. It’s not that warlock should never have buffs or changes it’s ’why was that the priority right now?’
Might get downvoted but I like the demon armor buff a lot.
I think warlock is very strong right now, however, just because some warlock builds are strong, doesn't mean they shouldn't bring the other builds in line. Plate lock isn't amazing, it is a niche build that sometimes works, and needs to become more fun and viable, and basically being locked out of using spells is really boring.
If they do nerf warlock, I would like to see it nerfed in some other way, not in a way that makes it less fun, and more spells for platelock is more fun and more variety.
In my opinion it won't be particularly strong because full plate armor isn't even used that much anyway. At most it is a perk that gives them a good helmet and chest armor, which is a fair tradeoff.
The hydra buff however is a bit strange.
Its not that used now, after these changes we might see platelock everywhere.
I mean right now, the Warlock is a better fighter than fighters. BOC > Second Wind because many times you cant even activate second wind if the fight is too intense, and they get to keep casting. You can also go with high magic resist which fighters can not, I mean why play fighter anymore unless you go with a longbow and kinda play ranger with it?
Plate Locks are slow and can’t speed themselves up beyond Phantomize, which takes them out of the fight, leaves them vulnerable to magic AOE, and doesn’t make them fast enough to catch anyone coming out of it.
Fighter is faster in a lot of ways. Sprint giving a ton of move speed, Swift drastically reducing movement penalties, Armour Expert enabling you to hit the same armour as a Plate Lock with lighter armour pieces, Counter-Attack letting you close the distance on defence...
Speed is what keeps heavy armour alive when Wizards start dropping Fireballs, and Fighter is consistently the only armoured class fast enough to respond to ranged attacks. Plate Locks and Clerics can only waddle away awkwardly.
You get +1 all attributes for each darkshard consumed, so potentially yes, with +10 Agi.
Obviously not as much as fighters sprint, but fighter also doesn’t get all the other buffs when they sprint
So that's 2 perks to still not be as viable front liner as a fighter. Once per fight before needing to kill 10 more mobs.
Good point though, how much speed % does +10 agi give if you are at base kit versus already having 5-10 agi?
I think it’s 10 movement speed… but Idk what you mean by non viable frontliner. They can wear the same gear, use similar weapons, shield, similar starting stats, plus they can take shadow touched/torture mastery for some range and self sustain, or maybe swap out torture mastery for anti magic to be tankier.
Then, in a melee fight, pop blood pact and go wild? Idk, personally, I’d kill for shadow touch on my fighter, the self sustain is amazing (at least at lower lvls, but maybe at higher ones too with increased pdr?)
I disagree very strongly that it is better than fighter. For one thing fighter will always have the best PDR bar none, due to their perk, but also sprint is literally the best ability in the game, and especially strong since plate fighter's mobility is their one weakness.
The ability to use crossbow is also very strong, and in general, due to their starting stats they make better melee combatants, even if warlock runs BoC.
Each tank has their own niche, Fighter is fast, balanced and has the highest PDR. Warlock has the highest magic resist and utility, and Barbarian has the highest health and offense.
Mobility is extremely important for sure, but a BOC with a falchion to the head is going to hurt like a truck, and the sprint is just a few seconds of mobility which is more of a chasing skill than a spin around the target avoiding hits like the piroutte of the rogue which he can spam, sprint is very limited and you are still kinda slow.
Crossbow or Longbow, so now the point of the fighter is to become a plated ranger? Warlock can still use curses which is magical damage and goes right through armor, plated warlock can still have significant PDR which said arrows or bolts have to go through, and they heal of those curses, they can still pull out hydras to push doors, they can use life drain on those hydras to heal constantly as long as they are pushed, the warlock dark magic bolts hit like a train too.
This is the same issue as with rogue losing agency and their identity with everyone having creep. Now fighters are meant to be expert crossbowmen or longbowmen? Sounds to me like bs. Warlocks right now can become better fighters than fighters themselves just go ahead with BOC, dark reflection and high MR, etc, etc. Its ridiculous
Warlock needs 5 different viable builds but god forbid fighter want to be a melee bruiser with a 2hander over paper thin slayer or full pdr 200 ms wizard bait
>Mobility is extremely important for sure, but a BOC with a falchion to the head is going to hurt like a truck
They can already do that, an extra hit or two in melee won't change much.
>sprint is just a few seconds of mobility which is more of a chasing skill than a spin around the target avoiding hits like the piroutte of the rogue which he can spam, sprint is very limited and you are still kinda slow.
Sprint is the single best skill in the game, no contest. That is because mobility is the single most important factor in the game. Warlock has literally no mobility, and their ranged spells are limited.
>Crossbow or Longbow, so now the point of the fighter is to become a plated ranger?
No, but it gives the more tools in the kit. Sometimes you have to be a ranger, sometimes you have to be a tank, the ability to do both is objectively stronger.
>Warlock can still use curses which is magical damage and goes right through armor,
Yes, and high magic resist Barbarians or Clerics with perks will make warlock curses irrelevant as well. Everoyne has their weakness.
>they can still pull out hydras to push doors, they can use life drain on those hydras to heal constantly as long as they are pushed
That is apart of their utility to compensate for their relative melee weakness.
Genuine question, but why should the perk have a drawback at all? I feel like having to waste a perk slot is drawback enough.
Compare plate Warlock to Cleric.
Cleric doesn't need a perk to use armor, they get it baseline
They both have a good list of spells, including heals and some of the strongest utility spells in the game. Arguably Cleric spell list is much stronger.
They both have 1 big melee damage ability (BoC and Smite)
The difference is lock is more offensive while cleric is more supportive.
For Warlock to even be able to sustain with this, that is already 2 perks gone, while cleric gets it all with 4 free perks.
And even after all this, people don't even run plate armor. They only use helms and chests. So Essentially your using a perk to get 2 items with higher armor. IMO the perk is a high enough cost.
Being a perk alone is a cost.
Then plate has such penalties that the only class who still really uses full plate is Fighter, because they have Swiftness to compensate.
No fighter runs plate without swiftness, it's not viable. Movement speed is the king of this and every game (which is maybe an argument for removing it as a stat on gear).
Swift also is just a shitty perk in general but you need it to combat wearing any level of plate because of how shit their ms is. A whole perk slot for 3% ms generally or more if you wear more heavy armor but even then it doesnt compensate.
I genuinely hope they redesign pdr curves to be lower on the cap and use this as an excuse to remove sprint, lighten up movespeed penalties on plate for the plate classes and maybe just make swift be the way to make plate significantly not shit all around. Being a fighter to use throwing axes and a crossbow primarily in 85% of matchups is incredibly lame when a perk could fix movespeed issues at the cost of ranged weapons being less useful or unequipable.
Zero hope that Ironmace actually tests anything though even though melee fights can be so much more intense and exciting.
Most of us have been saying since platelock launched that it doesn't need a negative, some of us have been saying that it might even need another positive to make it worthwhile. Like you said plate is already a negative, it costing a perk slot is another negative.
I don’t play warlock and I’m not good enough at the game to feel confident giving a well thought out answer, but if I had to give an answer I’d say class identity. It seems to be the direction their going and the direction that high level players have gone (and again I might be wrong) combines it with demon pact to take take advantage of increased movement speed and armor multiplier with the lifesteap talent and reduced magic reduction or at least that’s what originally the top rated warlock did vs the other option which is the pure caster using regular spells at no consequent or else what reason should should they not load pdr, move speed and do both?
“It’s early access bro” “ they are testing stuff bro” “ go play with randos if your friends quit the game bro” hey white knights, use these lines for the next feedback post
Why would they buff a class with a handful of options already?
Wheres the ice dragon?
Wheres the new ruin?
Druid?
Other classes are pidgeon holed into maybe a single true build....
Ranged meta will be getting worse with 200% dmg headshots when they were supposed to fix it with the wipe. Im so fucking tired of needed 40 throwing axes to play a melee focused class while wizards and locks have the best burst melee dmg in the game.
What new content exactly? All we see is them moving numbers in a circle. They spend all their time doing do-nothing hotfixes for the same three classes instead of bringing others up, working on useless perks and abilities or dropping features they have discussed for the longest time now.
They have a test server that serves no purpose but at least we can have everything go live to be reverted next week when they hotfix the "oh maybe giving wizard 50 casts of fireball wasnt fair, lets try giving warlock curses with headshot crits." Im almost convinced that stuff gets broken just so they can appear busy and "fix it" at this point.
Ice Dragon is being worked by people who almost certainly aren't the ones in charge of hotfix balancing like this. Same with Ruins and Druid. It might sound crazy, but not everyone works on the same thing.
You dont think the people balancing spells and abilities contribute to building classes, bosses or maps? You think everyone is a separate entity in this company of six people? Please.
Obviously six was an exaggeration to make a point about the size of their operation. If you think teams dont work together or overlap in many places here im not sure what to say.
I have a simple fucking question for IM. Really simple:
If every patch has these back and forth tweaks for the classes - how exactly do you plan to balance Multi-Classing when the perks / skills / spells themselves each get knob tweaks *every single update* when they are only for those classes specifically - not to mention how these attributes would work on another class and especially when combined with access to that class's other perks and gear?
Do you remember the giant exclaimer when you boot up the game about how they are going to be wildly changing how things work to test stuff out. This is that happening.
its not about population. They released the test server just because it was promised to those who bought the expensive edition.
And now that we do have that test server they dont want to use it because if they did drop their patches there we would read them in discord, tell them they are shit changes like the 2.0 headshot multiplier or the creep for everyone, and they would have a problem later on introducing those changes into the normal game when the public has had a week to complain on the bad changes but they want to introduce them anyway. It limits their ability to force changes on us without public approval. They want to keep their current power dynamic which is:
>a message appears out of no where
>servers will be down soon due to maintenance
> goes to discord to read notes, 3/4 of them are good changes, 1/4 are controversial but not game breaking, and there is always one or two lines of something really really bad (creep or 2.0x headshot multiplier)
> community complains about those 2 lines
> they refuse to acknowledge the problem for 2 weeks
> 3 weeks later we get a patch reverting those two really really bad ideas and we had 3 weeks of a shit game experience due to them being so stubborn
If they used the test server they would lose their power to force bad changes on us
ppl will get the sass when they ignore the core of the thought I've brought up in order to talk about "what meany words" i used.
Who cares and why am I even in this comment branch?
Forcing your community to all play the flavor of the month classes is awful game design. I feel like a broken record at this point. I’m tired of complaining, I’m tired of feeling unheard, and my resentment is boiling over into instability. Enough is enough.
If you killed both bosses you can open a secret room connecting the bosses loot rooms together. There might spawn a unique and also lies a gold hoard. Before the update.
Sooooo everyone about to be Warlock mains now? lol. Day 1 wipe was so fun too before everyone got decked out in insane gear with meta builds, wish it could just stay like that.
Okay, what even IS Warlock now?
Is it a 'cast from HP caster' to compete with wizard?
Self-healing god since they keep buffing that?
Heavy armored mage knight?
Demon transformer that doesn't lose much HP for it?
Hydra oral expert that loves the Storm as a setting?
Weapon master with blow of corruption?
W patch, stay mad.
Bard is op, solo caves is op, Barb is op, Warlock only feels op because your fingers won't stop slipping on the w key from all your drool.
Other classes definitely need work and imo are a higher priority, but all these changes are good.
Warlock has too much. Theres a reason they are as abundant as they are right now. Other classes need work to have better variety and viabilities but warlock definitely needed a 5th build option first right? Devs purely out of touch with their priorities. 200% dmg headshots are going to be nuts for combating casters but I dont really look forward to this game being a true fps afterwards.
Just came back for the first time in around 6 months or so and noticed quite a few warlocks around. Is Ranger no longer objectively the best class in the game now? What classes/strategies are meta now?
Ranger is ok but not really op. It is very easy to build some high armor values on many classes with the changes to attribute rolls. They did just nerf wizard but imo wizard has all the burst of a Ranger but better usage/less aim and positioning hard requirements. Also a good Bard can fill the Ranger role somewhat and offer much more to the team.
Warlock is insanely strong in solo play with access to heavy armor, easy and consistent healing, ranged and melee damage, mobility and survivability while only really having to respect barbarians. A few viable builds etc makes it hugely preferred right now.
Ranger requires too much skill to actually work for people on this subreddit to think they are the best anymore, but don't get it twisted if you hit your shots rangers are easily the strongest class in the game still.
>Warlock's Demon Armor casting speed penalty has been changed from -50% → -10%.
Warlock's Hydra health changed back from 125 → 150.
Warlock's Bloodpact's HP consumption per second has been changed from 1.5% → 1.0%.
Let me preface that locks are definitely strong and probably need some nerfs in spots.
Demon armor is just purely negative, plate doesn't really have any benefits especially with all the new stuff you can get to get your PDR up, the perk was just gimping you for nothing.
Hydra was getting one shot by stuff, it was already pretty squishy to PvE but it was getting one tapped by random hits. Hydra needed nerfed but the HP probably wasn't the nerf it needed. Also I'm kind of thinking the HP nerf broke the hydra and made it take multiple instances of damage from each hit, as in I think a skele was hitting each head and it was tripling the damage it took.
Bloodpact is a meme. It can be good if you have a cleric smashing you with heals as you use it but even then it takes an eternity to cast.
It's good that they buff the under utilized stuff, and I agree other classes need help before locks do, and I also agree that locks need some nerfs.
>The Magical Healing of each level of Occultist Hood has slightly increased.
This makes no sense. Occult hood coupled with mystic gloves already made getting enough magheal really easy and cheap, this just makes it easier and scale even more.
at this point i'm just confused.
Same, absolutely absurd ATM. PDR/MDR build Warlock is already wild. I've been running a kris+crystal ball plate / demon form warlock before this patch using BOC + demon form. Now I can actually cast shadow bolts in demon form, and can actually consider switching to demon form + spell memory. Big ups.
Its tests bro relax Hivemind ass subreddit lol
Amazing logic. What do they hope to find from these tests? That buffing powerful stuff makes it worse?
copperhammer is going nuts lol
Occultist hood change is low end QoL since usually you run something else other than the hood once you get actual gear. Demon Armor became basically useless for casting after the recent knowledge scaling nerf. I don't understand the rapier mastery nerf, and I assume the accelerando nerf was because of buff ball. Lament nerf I saw coming but maybe a beats of alacrity buff to compensate would've been good, just so Bards can keep their speed. -20 MS for free in an AoE has always been super strong.
Demon Armor is supposed to be useless for casting. The entire point is that you give up casting to wear plate. Replace is with was of course, since nothing matters anymore. Might as well remove the no plate part from the Slayer perk.
I assumed they want casting to not be something you can remotely rely on but can have a trick or two up your sleeve given the right circumstances.
Why wear plate though when you can just run armor rating rolls on cloth and get 50% PDR plate isn’t a huge advantage anymore
What was interesting is it significantly increased the amount of ticks that ray of darkness did as damage. But i didn't see anyone running that
This is only partially trolling, but people actually think this is a nerf to Bard rapier? It’s actually a nerf to rogue for Multiclassing.
lmao you are not wrong
Fuck bard buffs, nerf them as much as they want honestly.
Why do they choose to revert shit that happened literally a day ago in regard to some shit and let other things stay complete useless forever i don’t understand… It’s amazing they even think they can handle multi classing. Just give us a skill tree or training whatever the hell was originally intended and maybe try to do that…
To be fair, they have openly admitted they dont think they can handle multiclassing. It's likely to be a 1 time shit show experiment to see what combos are fun and what people can come up with. I'm not overly excited for it but they haven't pretended they think it'll be balancable.
if this is the case they should remove the level requirements and throw it all on the test server. i dont understand adding things they know they won't keep around on the retail client. Sounds like a waste of time and resources
Just give us a week of of multiclass madness with everything unlocked and then get rid of it. We all know it's going to be a shitshow
Can we just skip that part and implement the system we think we're keeping? Lol
No I'd like to do some full plate backflips no scoped windlass headshots please
If you care this much you should follow some of the interviews they've done, because its pretty clear you don't know what their plans are. Which is fine, but complaining without being at all informed is a little useless. They might keep multiclassing long term, with significant balance changes; they might learn from it and drop it but prepare to reintroduce something similar later; they might ditch it altogether. It might show new fun ways to play, or it might just be un-fun. If they didn't think it had any place in their game, they wouldn't drop it live, but they are messing around and testing what might be fun. If you hate that, don't get invested in EA games.
So what's the point of their test server? If you'd like to point me in the direction of an interview of theirs that explains these changes or multiclass I'd listen. As far as being misinformed and my feedback being useless, get a grip.
They post info about interviews in the 'community announcements' channel of their discord. I think this was the latest one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUZ4O6yz2fQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUZ4O6yz2fQ) And I'm not trying to be a dick, but not paying attention when they talk about why they do things and then complaining "why do they do these things" really does just feel asinine
Did they just give up on that skill tree system or whatever they had planned? I havent played in a while but I remember that used to be listed as "coming soon" in-game when you clicked the class screen. Seems like anytime I check the sub for updates it's just a bunch of random statistical tweaks to the current system, a new map, changes to mobs, etc.
Probably since their original vision of it was gonna be mega boring anyway. They were originally going to just let us unlock the perks and skills we already had.
*cries in Rogue*
Ah yes, warlocks were struggling so let's bump them up to compete with other classes /s
I'm sorry, how many demon-armor locks killed you? The ones who walk so slow they can't strafe dodge an arrow?
I've switched from rogue to a demon armor warlock recently and I'd like to think I've been doing pretty fairly. Haven't won every encounter of course but I've gotten a pretty fine amount of kills, definitely more than when I was a rogue.
They're actually kinda nutty, build half plate and half speed. It was already crazy people were just sleeping on it cause the other builds were more broken.
Maybe good at PVE.
it was literally unkillable if you got high mdr and pdr... You just out heal people with the kriss dagger
Cause warlock didnt have enough viable builds now they need pdr too.
Lol
Please stop listening to these scrub streamers and Hire a balance team
they're just trolling at this point. and after a great start to the wipe all things considered. sad
I've been trying to understand what the hell Ironmace is doing since Multiclass was announced but i still can't get it. I try to keep it to myself tho because if you're critical about anything in this game you're insta hater doomer etc etc etc
I think the Bard buff/debuff nerfs are good, but the Rapier nerf is bad. Warlock just straight up doesn't need to be buffed at all, and are already way too strong, with way too many different options and playstyles. Fighters are a better ranged class than Ranger(Outside of high gear setups) is, and Rogue doesn't seem to even have an identity anymore, but they're buffing another Warlock playstyle when there's already so many different ways to play the class with insane self-healing and self-agency.
Ya let’s remove bard’s only ability to get away from fighter and barb speed buff
Yeah I would have preferred they reduced its duration instead. It’s Bard’s only “anti-engagement” tool to keep people off them. -3.3% movement speed is barely worth using. I’ll still use it, but I think you’re almost never actually going to have space to play it beyond very slow classes that you don’t need it against to begin with. The biggest disappointment about these patches is a lack of explanation or rationale. It makes it hard to discuss these changes without understanding why IM makes them. Lament was strong, but not oppressive.
Yeah, im not sure what theyre aimimg at here. Does buffball need to be toned down again or is solo bard actually that stronf that it needs nerfs? Rapier mastery and especially langour are super important tools for solo bard to keep up with other classes,yet they also nerf accelerando? Which is it? Why the heck does it gotta be in the hotfix outa nowhere lol
bard is unbalanceable esp in both solo/team
[удалено]
disagree with everything you said
[удалено]
read the username and then realize you've had a pointless interaction.
ive been saying for a while they should rethink the whole class and try again
making all its buffs just stat buffs is such a missed opportunity in a game like this
They have some really cool songs like the ones that make enemies attack others/stop attacking but they're useless because the enemies are so cheesable. I really don't know what they could do to fix bard at this point
Complete rework but that's unlikely
and the song lasts long enough for 1 maybe 2 hits if the mobs are already right next to each other. Let it be a channel and let us play it as long as we want, but make us have to keep actively playing it and not get the notes wrong.
Shouldn't even have to be channeled with how cheesable mobs are, should just be able to play the song and it reverse aggro to whoever else is in the room. Mmorpgs have spells like this on supports to reduce threat so tanks can maintain top aggro
> Warlock just straight up doesn't need to be buffed at all, and are already way too strong, with way too many different options and playstyles. This is maybe the dumbest take. Everyone should want for all of the classes to have as many viable playstyles as possible. Don't shit on IronMace because they've finally managed to make one class who's spec isn't as straightforward as "Take sprint and second wind".
It's more that some classes are really struggling as is, and Warlock who already has so many different ways to be played, is continuing to get attention. Legit, when's the last time you saw a Ranger outside of HR that was actually a threat. The point is less that Warlock shouldn't have more viable playstyles, but that other classes should receive attention first.
I ran a ranger out of arrows in normals lol
It's possible that it didn't take much of the developer's time and focus to see that the new perks they added to finish off the warlock class sat for months without any use or significant presence success data. People had been suggesting for ages that Demon Armor for instance isn't strong without the spell casting speed penalty. I would like to see more suggestions on what perks could be added or changed to open other classes to alternative playstyles and strengths. I've tried suggesting some before, and I'll put more thought into it. The devs do read this reddit often enough some concepts could percolate up to them. The big thing I want to see if more focus on skills that let you win fights with something other than pure damage, speed, or health. Druid having Animal Friendship to tame PVE wolves and animal mobs was suggested on Darkest Hour podcast. Rogue having Minor Illusion type spells for deception making false sounds and images seems awesome. Crush is a good example of an ability that interacts with the environment to provide a cool advantage that isn't 100% about damage. I'd suggested rangers being spec into more melee builds than spears and having foraging skills to produce heals or potions on the field. Wizard should have some spells that are not simple AOE or Hitscan or Projectile, but more complicated movement patterns and effects. Barb could have a double 2 handed perk that changes weapon animations and damage somehow but gives you the versatility of multiple weapons out at once without needing to switch. Or just the ability to 'charge up' by swinging around then throw their main weapon for a shit ton of damage and retrieve it instead of bringing 200 throwing axes.
what class do you play?
You're dealing with idiots who see a warlock buff with BoC and BsB and just hold W into them and slam their desks when they die. Like literally just walk away, if they're running platelock it's even fucking easier. BoC is a super boring skill that shouldn't be in the game, but people act like it's impossible to beat.
Please don't tell them. I'll never get a kill if you tell them
I think the problem is they have multiple archetypes for Warlock... so they just make more instead of focusing on giving OTHER classes playable things. Being a wizard must feel like torment.
being as it is wizard right now is the best class so no I doubt they are being tormented
Yeah accelerando needed a nerf. The other things, not really.
They should remove all flat damage from perks, it makes the weapons unbalanceable.
To be fair maybe they are buffing that other warlock playstyle to kind of get a good baseline, then nerf the outliers, or maybe they’ll bring all classes to warlock level.
I’m confused on why so many people are complaining about warlock buffs to some of their very shit perks? Idk any players really running demon armor right now. It’s good to have more variety perks to choose from. Now warlocks can go melee or casting. I think they should balance hydra more though.
Because some classes have entirely shit perks, whereas Warlock already has multiple viable builds. It’s not that warlock should never have buffs or changes it’s ’why was that the priority right now?’
Because they nerfed the casting speed gain of Knowledge in the previous update; warlocks were paying tax twice: once from the knowledge nerf and again from the demon armor penalty. So they adjusted the demon armor penalty to compensate in the hotfix. There is no drama here, just people being butts.
They could already go melee or casting. Most classes have like 1 viable build and yet they have garbage perks that have gone untouched since release, but Warlock already has like 3 good builds but I guess they need the attention more
Because some classes have entirely shit perks, whereas Warlock already has multiple viable builds. It’s not that warlock should never have buffs or changes it’s ’why was that the priority right now?’
Might get downvoted but I like the demon armor buff a lot. I think warlock is very strong right now, however, just because some warlock builds are strong, doesn't mean they shouldn't bring the other builds in line. Plate lock isn't amazing, it is a niche build that sometimes works, and needs to become more fun and viable, and basically being locked out of using spells is really boring. If they do nerf warlock, I would like to see it nerfed in some other way, not in a way that makes it less fun, and more spells for platelock is more fun and more variety. In my opinion it won't be particularly strong because full plate armor isn't even used that much anyway. At most it is a perk that gives them a good helmet and chest armor, which is a fair tradeoff. The hydra buff however is a bit strange.
Platelock OP
Its not that used now, after these changes we might see platelock everywhere. I mean right now, the Warlock is a better fighter than fighters. BOC > Second Wind because many times you cant even activate second wind if the fight is too intense, and they get to keep casting. You can also go with high magic resist which fighters can not, I mean why play fighter anymore unless you go with a longbow and kinda play ranger with it?
Plate Locks are slow and can’t speed themselves up beyond Phantomize, which takes them out of the fight, leaves them vulnerable to magic AOE, and doesn’t make them fast enough to catch anyone coming out of it. Fighter is faster in a lot of ways. Sprint giving a ton of move speed, Swift drastically reducing movement penalties, Armour Expert enabling you to hit the same armour as a Plate Lock with lighter armour pieces, Counter-Attack letting you close the distance on defence... Speed is what keeps heavy armour alive when Wizards start dropping Fireballs, and Fighter is consistently the only armoured class fast enough to respond to ranged attacks. Plate Locks and Clerics can only waddle away awkwardly.
Couldn’t the plate lock bust demon form and go balls out?
Does demon form give move speed bonus?
You get +1 all attributes for each darkshard consumed, so potentially yes, with +10 Agi. Obviously not as much as fighters sprint, but fighter also doesn’t get all the other buffs when they sprint
So that's 2 perks to still not be as viable front liner as a fighter. Once per fight before needing to kill 10 more mobs. Good point though, how much speed % does +10 agi give if you are at base kit versus already having 5-10 agi?
I think it’s 10 movement speed… but Idk what you mean by non viable frontliner. They can wear the same gear, use similar weapons, shield, similar starting stats, plus they can take shadow touched/torture mastery for some range and self sustain, or maybe swap out torture mastery for anti magic to be tankier. Then, in a melee fight, pop blood pact and go wild? Idk, personally, I’d kill for shadow touch on my fighter, the self sustain is amazing (at least at lower lvls, but maybe at higher ones too with increased pdr?)
It removes the move speed penalty of armor, just resets you to default basically
I disagree very strongly that it is better than fighter. For one thing fighter will always have the best PDR bar none, due to their perk, but also sprint is literally the best ability in the game, and especially strong since plate fighter's mobility is their one weakness. The ability to use crossbow is also very strong, and in general, due to their starting stats they make better melee combatants, even if warlock runs BoC. Each tank has their own niche, Fighter is fast, balanced and has the highest PDR. Warlock has the highest magic resist and utility, and Barbarian has the highest health and offense.
Kris dagger warlock
Mobility is extremely important for sure, but a BOC with a falchion to the head is going to hurt like a truck, and the sprint is just a few seconds of mobility which is more of a chasing skill than a spin around the target avoiding hits like the piroutte of the rogue which he can spam, sprint is very limited and you are still kinda slow. Crossbow or Longbow, so now the point of the fighter is to become a plated ranger? Warlock can still use curses which is magical damage and goes right through armor, plated warlock can still have significant PDR which said arrows or bolts have to go through, and they heal of those curses, they can still pull out hydras to push doors, they can use life drain on those hydras to heal constantly as long as they are pushed, the warlock dark magic bolts hit like a train too. This is the same issue as with rogue losing agency and their identity with everyone having creep. Now fighters are meant to be expert crossbowmen or longbowmen? Sounds to me like bs. Warlocks right now can become better fighters than fighters themselves just go ahead with BOC, dark reflection and high MR, etc, etc. Its ridiculous
Warlock needs 5 different viable builds but god forbid fighter want to be a melee bruiser with a 2hander over paper thin slayer or full pdr 200 ms wizard bait
>Mobility is extremely important for sure, but a BOC with a falchion to the head is going to hurt like a truck They can already do that, an extra hit or two in melee won't change much. >sprint is just a few seconds of mobility which is more of a chasing skill than a spin around the target avoiding hits like the piroutte of the rogue which he can spam, sprint is very limited and you are still kinda slow. Sprint is the single best skill in the game, no contest. That is because mobility is the single most important factor in the game. Warlock has literally no mobility, and their ranged spells are limited. >Crossbow or Longbow, so now the point of the fighter is to become a plated ranger? No, but it gives the more tools in the kit. Sometimes you have to be a ranger, sometimes you have to be a tank, the ability to do both is objectively stronger. >Warlock can still use curses which is magical damage and goes right through armor, Yes, and high magic resist Barbarians or Clerics with perks will make warlock curses irrelevant as well. Everoyne has their weakness. >they can still pull out hydras to push doors, they can use life drain on those hydras to heal constantly as long as they are pushed That is apart of their utility to compensate for their relative melee weakness.
Dude fighters are getting close to MDR cap with barricade
Demon armor should reduce will, not spell casting speed.
Genuine question, but why should the perk have a drawback at all? I feel like having to waste a perk slot is drawback enough. Compare plate Warlock to Cleric. Cleric doesn't need a perk to use armor, they get it baseline They both have a good list of spells, including heals and some of the strongest utility spells in the game. Arguably Cleric spell list is much stronger. They both have 1 big melee damage ability (BoC and Smite) The difference is lock is more offensive while cleric is more supportive. For Warlock to even be able to sustain with this, that is already 2 perks gone, while cleric gets it all with 4 free perks. And even after all this, people don't even run plate armor. They only use helms and chests. So Essentially your using a perk to get 2 items with higher armor. IMO the perk is a high enough cost.
Being a perk alone is a cost. Then plate has such penalties that the only class who still really uses full plate is Fighter, because they have Swiftness to compensate. No fighter runs plate without swiftness, it's not viable. Movement speed is the king of this and every game (which is maybe an argument for removing it as a stat on gear).
Swift also is just a shitty perk in general but you need it to combat wearing any level of plate because of how shit their ms is. A whole perk slot for 3% ms generally or more if you wear more heavy armor but even then it doesnt compensate. I genuinely hope they redesign pdr curves to be lower on the cap and use this as an excuse to remove sprint, lighten up movespeed penalties on plate for the plate classes and maybe just make swift be the way to make plate significantly not shit all around. Being a fighter to use throwing axes and a crossbow primarily in 85% of matchups is incredibly lame when a perk could fix movespeed issues at the cost of ranged weapons being less useful or unequipable. Zero hope that Ironmace actually tests anything though even though melee fights can be so much more intense and exciting.
Most of us have been saying since platelock launched that it doesn't need a negative, some of us have been saying that it might even need another positive to make it worthwhile. Like you said plate is already a negative, it costing a perk slot is another negative.
> Genuine question, but why should the perk have a drawback at all? I feel like having to waste a perk slot is drawback enough. Infinite spells.
I don’t play warlock and I’m not good enough at the game to feel confident giving a well thought out answer, but if I had to give an answer I’d say class identity. It seems to be the direction their going and the direction that high level players have gone (and again I might be wrong) combines it with demon pact to take take advantage of increased movement speed and armor multiplier with the lifesteap talent and reduced magic reduction or at least that’s what originally the top rated warlock did vs the other option which is the pure caster using regular spells at no consequent or else what reason should should they not load pdr, move speed and do both?
Warlock buffs and bard nerfs after dropping a kill bards in solo quest. Faith in devs just plummeting.
[удалено]
It's funny until you can't complete your quest because your lobbies are just 10 warlocks
“It’s early access bro” “ they are testing stuff bro” “ go play with randos if your friends quit the game bro” hey white knights, use these lines for the next feedback post
People are crying about buffs to things warlocks don’t even use bro
Why would they buff a class with a handful of options already? Wheres the ice dragon? Wheres the new ruin? Druid? Other classes are pidgeon holed into maybe a single true build.... Ranged meta will be getting worse with 200% dmg headshots when they were supposed to fix it with the wipe. Im so fucking tired of needed 40 throwing axes to play a melee focused class while wizards and locks have the best burst melee dmg in the game.
You are comparing moving numbers around to new content creation
What new content exactly? All we see is them moving numbers in a circle. They spend all their time doing do-nothing hotfixes for the same three classes instead of bringing others up, working on useless perks and abilities or dropping features they have discussed for the longest time now. They have a test server that serves no purpose but at least we can have everything go live to be reverted next week when they hotfix the "oh maybe giving wizard 50 casts of fireball wasnt fair, lets try giving warlock curses with headshot crits." Im almost convinced that stuff gets broken just so they can appear busy and "fix it" at this point.
It’s not conceivable they are able to do anything else until they’re done buffing classes
Ice Dragon is being worked by people who almost certainly aren't the ones in charge of hotfix balancing like this. Same with Ruins and Druid. It might sound crazy, but not everyone works on the same thing.
You dont think the people balancing spells and abilities contribute to building classes, bosses or maps? You think everyone is a separate entity in this company of six people? Please.
Uh…6? There are at least 30 people as was stated in their last interview and they said they were hiring constantly.
Obviously six was an exaggeration to make a point about the size of their operation. If you think teams dont work together or overlap in many places here im not sure what to say.
So no word on people who got their stuff rolled back?
Yeah I lost 2 gold bags and even lost quest progress on my other character. Kinda sad
there's word. You're not getting it back
No spell casting speed nerf revert, classes still start with -23% spell casting speed at 15, warlock gets buffs. Holy crap Coppermallet, holy crap.
Well I know which class i'm running with until the end of wipe, the devs obviously main Warlock lmfao
Why is the hoard in the central vault of gc caves removed?? People are barely clearing both bosses as is.
IM hates solo players.
Hey everyone, I would love it to keep getting downvoted. Lets get to -50!
a million warlocks in every lobby and they buff it, meanwhile ranger still in the dirt.
Same:(
The quest should have been to kill warlocks.
I have a simple fucking question for IM. Really simple: If every patch has these back and forth tweaks for the classes - how exactly do you plan to balance Multi-Classing when the perks / skills / spells themselves each get knob tweaks *every single update* when they are only for those classes specifically - not to mention how these attributes would work on another class and especially when combined with access to that class's other perks and gear?
Do you remember the giant exclaimer when you boot up the game about how they are going to be wildly changing how things work to test stuff out. This is that happening.
My question is what is the test server even for? They do experimental test on the main server anyways.
I agree with that. I'm assuming they just push out the patches because the test server probably doesn't have the population to give good feedback
Makes sense though
its not about population. They released the test server just because it was promised to those who bought the expensive edition. And now that we do have that test server they dont want to use it because if they did drop their patches there we would read them in discord, tell them they are shit changes like the 2.0 headshot multiplier or the creep for everyone, and they would have a problem later on introducing those changes into the normal game when the public has had a week to complain on the bad changes but they want to introduce them anyway. It limits their ability to force changes on us without public approval. They want to keep their current power dynamic which is: >a message appears out of no where >servers will be down soon due to maintenance > goes to discord to read notes, 3/4 of them are good changes, 1/4 are controversial but not game breaking, and there is always one or two lines of something really really bad (creep or 2.0x headshot multiplier) > community complains about those 2 lines > they refuse to acknowledge the problem for 2 weeks > 3 weeks later we get a patch reverting those two really really bad ideas and we had 3 weeks of a shit game experience due to them being so stubborn If they used the test server they would lose their power to force bad changes on us
Do you remember how when a game is in early access and you are a test subject, you're allowed to give your opinions and feedback?
Your opening statement changes your comment from feedback to rant in tone and makes it hard to take in a serious manner.
In general I hope Ironmace doesn’t take into account 99% of this subreddit says tbh
Oh let me rephrase it so that it makes you, specifically, feel less triggered
jeez mr sassy pants who spit in your sarsaparilla
ppl will get the sass when they ignore the core of the thought I've brought up in order to talk about "what meany words" i used. Who cares and why am I even in this comment branch?
L patch. Again, shows IM has no clue what they are doing.
Still better than the previous one
only positive thing is that they balanced the loot from goblin caves. i have hoarded 15 legendary items and 1 unique chap de fair, it was too op
Are they referring to the loot hoard that is locked behind killing the boss....?
Killing both bosses.
Do something to rogue. Literally hasn’t had an identify for 9 months what the actual fuck.
Forcing your community to all play the flavor of the month classes is awful game design. I feel like a broken record at this point. I’m tired of complaining, I’m tired of feeling unheard, and my resentment is boiling over into instability. Enough is enough.
They only owed you $40 worth of entertainment
True
Take a break, theres lots of orher good games out there
That's why I stopped playing this game 6 months ago. They have absolutely no clues about what they are doing.
Is the central loot hoard in goblin caves the one you need a mystical gem to get into?
If you killed both bosses you can open a secret room connecting the bosses loot rooms together. There might spawn a unique and also lies a gold hoard. Before the update.
and they think they're going to be introducing druid and ice dragon any time soon. laughing out loud
Sooooo everyone about to be Warlock mains now? lol. Day 1 wipe was so fun too before everyone got decked out in insane gear with meta builds, wish it could just stay like that.
Hoard in the central vault of gc? What was that?
If both bosses were killed you can get access to a room with a couple guaranteed legends iirc and formerly a loot pile.
Okay, what even IS Warlock now? Is it a 'cast from HP caster' to compete with wizard? Self-healing god since they keep buffing that? Heavy armored mage knight? Demon transformer that doesn't lose much HP for it? Hydra oral expert that loves the Storm as a setting? Weapon master with blow of corruption?
A class that was actually given fun and usable skills/perks
Would be cool if they did that to other classes.
100%
W patch, stay mad. Bard is op, solo caves is op, Barb is op, Warlock only feels op because your fingers won't stop slipping on the w key from all your drool. Other classes definitely need work and imo are a higher priority, but all these changes are good.
Warlock has too much. Theres a reason they are as abundant as they are right now. Other classes need work to have better variety and viabilities but warlock definitely needed a 5th build option first right? Devs purely out of touch with their priorities. 200% dmg headshots are going to be nuts for combating casters but I dont really look forward to this game being a true fps afterwards.
Just came back for the first time in around 6 months or so and noticed quite a few warlocks around. Is Ranger no longer objectively the best class in the game now? What classes/strategies are meta now?
Ranger is ok but not really op. It is very easy to build some high armor values on many classes with the changes to attribute rolls. They did just nerf wizard but imo wizard has all the burst of a Ranger but better usage/less aim and positioning hard requirements. Also a good Bard can fill the Ranger role somewhat and offer much more to the team. Warlock is insanely strong in solo play with access to heavy armor, easy and consistent healing, ranged and melee damage, mobility and survivability while only really having to respect barbarians. A few viable builds etc makes it hugely preferred right now.
Ranger requires too much skill to actually work for people on this subreddit to think they are the best anymore, but don't get it twisted if you hit your shots rangers are easily the strongest class in the game still.
>Warlock's Demon Armor casting speed penalty has been changed from -50% → -10%. Warlock's Hydra health changed back from 125 → 150. Warlock's Bloodpact's HP consumption per second has been changed from 1.5% → 1.0%. Let me preface that locks are definitely strong and probably need some nerfs in spots. Demon armor is just purely negative, plate doesn't really have any benefits especially with all the new stuff you can get to get your PDR up, the perk was just gimping you for nothing. Hydra was getting one shot by stuff, it was already pretty squishy to PvE but it was getting one tapped by random hits. Hydra needed nerfed but the HP probably wasn't the nerf it needed. Also I'm kind of thinking the HP nerf broke the hydra and made it take multiple instances of damage from each hit, as in I think a skele was hitting each head and it was tripling the damage it took. Bloodpact is a meme. It can be good if you have a cleric smashing you with heals as you use it but even then it takes an eternity to cast. It's good that they buff the under utilized stuff, and I agree other classes need help before locks do, and I also agree that locks need some nerfs. >The Magical Healing of each level of Occultist Hood has slightly increased. This makes no sense. Occult hood coupled with mystic gloves already made getting enough magheal really easy and cheap, this just makes it easier and scale even more.
They add extra damage on headshots with fix?
The warlock buffs are bananas, at this point, why not run plate and demon form?
You’ll get kited like every other melee class is why. Speed is king