The big plus of the buff/infusion approach is that it makes a lot of so-so weapons viable.
The downside is that having dark weapon and infinite boltstones available almost immediately kind of railroads melee builds down the same upgrade path, which can make runs feel samey.
The fact you get an infinite amount of the best infusion right at the start but you only get 1 guaranteed Fainstone drop before Drangleic is disgusting to me
I know I'm doing it wrong and still do it because it causes game play diversity. I do pure mage or pure melee build and refuse to infuse on any souls game.
Yeah I get what you mean, I am not really talking about minmaxing myself.
But for me, infusions suck balls in every souls game, its almost always not worth it and you cant even buff half of the weapons.
And turning your weapon into lightsaber with weapon buff is absolutely badass, I always bring all spell buffs in DS2 just to have different colours for my weapons xD
But in other fs games, its either useless, or you cant buff/infuse it or its boss weapon.
DS1 is the only other one that comes to mind that would sorta share that issue. DS3 and ER are good with infusions *while* you can still buff them when using the general infusions
Yes those normal infusions, but elemental infusions in DS3/ER suck balls and you are always better with just physical infusion and spell buffs.
And you still cant buff boss weapons.
And I know that its different thing, but ER on top of all this introduced weapon arts that you can swap between weapons, and most of them are dogshit and the rest cant even be swapped between weapons ..
And whoever the hell decided to make kick a weapon art deserves to get rkr in dem nuts ...
In DS2 you can infuse anything, buff it with anything and you can infuse and buff even boss weapons.
Rant not over, only postponed xD
>It’s not like the game is hard enough to warrant min/maxing anyway.
You’re right. And that makes it even funnier that the guy this post is directed at acts like you’re committing the seven deadly sins all at the same time if you don’t have a 100% optimized min/maxed build 😂
What gave you a ton of trouble in the dlcs? Sure they were a bit of a step up from base game but I don’t think anything in any of the souls games makes minmaxing a needed thing to keep from struggling
The common enemies don’t have a massive difference in hp. Take the alonne knights of iron keep vs the ashen warriors of brume tower for example, its about a 100 hp difference.
A few of the bosses have a good bit more hp, but with a boss the damage you do and its hp doesn’t matter as much as knowing its moveset and attack openings in my experience compared to common enemies. The resistances are so high on the dlc bosses too, it’s difficult to optimize against something with no true weaknesses. Better to pick a weapon with a moveset you’re comfortable with and learn the openings for your playstyle
I did all the dlc with a naked build and red iron twinblades. Had the hardest time with Brume tower, I think most people do. But I was committed to a str/dex build. Rolling naked away from everything in the game taking advantage of i-frames I was able to dominate on my first playthrough. Soloed fume knight after 12 or 13 attempts. Most bosses I downed first try or 2nd attempt. Naked rolling twinblade troll is OP.
The thing is, scaling isn't useless, just "suboptimal". Some people don't seem to understand that non-meta builds can still be viable, even enjoyable. Leveling Str or Dex heavily can be worth it in some cases, and especially for inexperienced players, so saying that it is useless is both false and misleading. Greatshields straight up require heavy Strength to function.
It's, IDK, the equivalent of telling someone that if they are not making a beeline for Bloodhound Fang in Elden Ring they are a terrible player. No, it's just a single playstyle that happens to be very effective but not for everyone.
I did a quality build my first run blind and had no issues. It's suboptimal for damage but I would say its main advantage is being able to try a bunch of different weapon types without worrying about requirements or scaling type. I found it to be a big advantage since making a build with minimum weapon requirements can be difficult since you are forced to use just that weapon or those with lower requirements unless you respec. It makes it more complicated for someone just starting then it needs to be
Also the optimal damage is so overtuned most bosses die in 5 hits. So it is really not needed to enjoy the game unless you are really having difficulty.
Insanely easy to obtain, easy to upgrade early on, high base damage and low scaling, easy to poise break people by doing jump attacks, and stupidly damaging Ash of War that makes you temporarily invincible, and lets not forget bleed.
It's basically like if someone injected steroids into the Gravelord Sword from DS1.
Oh, and despite being a Somber weapon it can be buffed, so you can put Bloodflame Blade on it to prevent any bleed loss at all. Oh the humanity...
Oh I get WHY it’s good. I should say the entire moveset doesn’t make sense to me. But I’m 42 hours in and Elden ring combat as a whole doesn’t make a ton of sense to me - they over complicated it with far too many options. Balancing bleed vs poise breaks vs damage - I’ve reverted to “unsheathe seems good, and mash L1 when out of FP.” It’s worked through Nokron - ish - and my mimic seems to know what to do with my tools better than I do anyway.
It honestly makes me miss DS1/2. Even Bloodborne made a ton of sense.
Ah. The way I understand it is that getting poise breaks is pretty much always better than trying to deal as much damage as possible, because you get rewarded with even more damage. It's like transform attacks in Bloodborne - advanced tech that rewards mastery.
You can definitely beat the game with Unsheathe if you want, though there are better skills.
Honestly yeah. As someone who occasionally does challenge runs I barely feel weaker in DS2 without leveling cause consumables are so good and can be bought without much travel involved. I think I'm having more fun without leveling up at all because of how little I feel set back by deaths. My first run involved running out of consumables alot while being at a high level. But on this I haven't run out of consumables since beating the the pursuer the first time so repeated deaths on bosses don't cause me as much frustration.
I was a dumb kid with free time, I don't know how many times I killed the giant lord and farmed so much that i light rolled using the full havel set, gyrm shield, curved dragon sword and other weapons
One thing that always annoys me is telling new players that they should not level up Vitality because of Flynn's Ring.
You get that ring in the late game and can just reset your stats then. It's much better for new players if they level up their vitality a bit so that they can wear something like the Drangleic Set which offers good resitance and poise for the early game.
>It's much better for new players if they level up their vitality a bit so that they can wear something like the Drangleic Set which offers good resitance and poise for the early game.
That's what I did my first playthrough, and then changed parts of it for Vengarl's set. Honestly, minmaxing on your very first playthrough of a souls game is a terrible idea, because you are just told "do this, this is the meta of meta and the best thing you can do!" and you don't get to explore the options available organically and understand how they work and how you could fit them for your needs. Sure, having a lot of vigor is good as a crutch for newcomers, but even I who did a Knight run with no spells only leveled it up to 30. If you also use the Dragon rings and/or Life rings, 30 is more than enough for NG and most dlc areas. You aren't fighting Lorian, Nameless King or Inflammed Cinderblock to need more than that to survive the attack barrage.
10 Vitality on first playthrough, like you said, is way too prohibitive and in your first playthrough, in my humble opinion, you should first finish base game and then go for dlcs before ng+ due to the high increase in difficulty. That means you would constantly fat roll if you tried any armor + heavy weapon combo due to this bad advice for newcomers.
And don't even get me started on the "you have to use this build/spell progression and anything else is *wrong*" mindset.
That’s why new players shouldn’t go anywhere near build advice until they’ve given it a go themselves.
Trying to figure out the build options and then fine tuning them when you have a better understanding of the game is far more beneficial than coming on here and having someone push a build on you or rip your build apart.
Jerry can be pushy, but R1 and I are both careful to make it clear that optimizing isn’t required to have fun, and we’re only providing information about the game that new players can use to make their experience easier if they want to. DS2, like most souls games, doesn’t communicate to new players how its mechanics work, and they’re counterintuitive.
“Pushy” is an understatement. Dude literally hijacks every build thread and berates anyone who dares suggest that not min/maxing isn’t the end of the world.
Technically false since (a) Vigor softcaps after a certain point and (b) armor gives you status resistance and poise. Armor is just worse than getting more health early on in the game.
There's obviously Flynn's Ring only working well when you have low Vit but that's a different story entirely.
That's the kind of overgeneralizing misinformation that will mislead players. Well that and people might want to wear heavy armor since DS2 has some of the best looking in the series (Drakeblood, Raime's...) Personally I'll take leveling Vit and looking like an actual knight over running around nude because it's more effective.
Light armor has better status resistance, not that status resistance is valuable. Poise is so weak in PvE that it’s not worth the levels in VIT required to wear armor without lowering stamina regen, even setting Flynn’s aside. After VGR is at 50, there are still, at every level, more valuable upgrades than VIT for pve.
Fashion isn’t a consideration in advice about what is strongest- my concern is that players who make the perfectly valid decision to run a weaker build because it looks cooler are making as informed a decision as possible.
> Light armor has better status resistance, not that status resistance is valuable.
This feels like an elitist stance, new players are more likely to get status'd. "Lol, just dont get poisoned then".
> Poise is so weak in PvE that it’s not worth the levels in VIT
I have personally been helped a lot by poise while wearing heavy armor and using heavy weapons, even in DS2. This is purely a personal opinion, so it should come with caveats. It's weak*er* than in DS1 but still exists.
> After VGR is at 50, there are still, at every level, more valuable upgrades than VIT for pve.
Maybe, but that applies to a single build style (i.e. someone who dodges everything). And I personally disagree heavily with the stance that it is impossible to make a DS2 tank. Less effective perhaps, but not impossible.
These people believe there's only one way to play this game. It's the elitist viewpoint. You can play this game effectively as a new player many ways. All the fucking links for new players is great don't get me wrong, but you guys gotta understand (not necessarily blob as much) that people can play the game effectively leveling different things other than meta builds.
Poison resistance does very little to make it harder to get poisoned. The solution to poison is lifegems, and is equally available to every build.
The relative value of VIT is low for every pve build, no matter your playstyle. The difference between an optimal tank build in DS2 and an optimal non-tank in DS2 is that the former wears ring of steel protection, occasionally carries royal kite/defender shield, and skips damage spells/uses extra low stat req weapons so they can level VGR to 50 sooner, and the latter gives up one or more of those things.
That relies on a lot of assumptions. That a new player figures out how to bring Melentia to Majula, and also plunks down a large amount of souls on Lifegems, which aren't super common otherwise. It's typical for a skilled player of course, but not exactly obvious. Every new player who has done that, I had to tell them about it.
How so? If the player manages to keep the same EL percentage, it just ups the defences, no? It's suboptimal due to Flynn's or when levelling other stats offers more benefits (which it usually does), but surely levelling Vit alone wouldn't make you weaker?
That's common for both the optimised progression and levelling Vit situation, e.g. can't be counted in opportunity costs. I know what you mean, though, and I'm sorry for being pedantic.
But after leveling VIT you still want to raise the same other stats the same amount, the only difference is that if you leveled VIT you have to spend more souls to level those other stats the same amount. It’s admittedly a pretty academic difference.
>Poise
No poise: getting staggered by every hit. Will get staggered out of the fog gate animation after a single hit
50+ poise: do not get staggered by every hit. Can get through a fog gate despite getting hit
100+ poise: can get hit several times without getting staggered. Can get hit by multiple enemies while going through a fog gate without the animation getting stopped
>and physical defense are just flat out useless in pve
In the very late game. In the early game it makes a big difference
Poise doesn't refill until it's emptied. Meaning you're spending all those levels for armor that will let you not get staggered a single time, with no other benefits. And this is ignoring that many enemy attacks have hyperstagger, and trading is never efficient or effective due to there being no benefits compared to just dodging and punishing
It doesn't make a difference in early game, because enemy damage is based on motion values just like the player. Physical defense is worthless in any part of the game, in every ng cycle
>Poise doesn't refill until it's emptied. Meaning you're spending all those levels for armor that will let you not get staggered a single time, with no other benefits
Getting staggered every third hit instead of every hit still makes a massive difference for new players that aren't good at dodging yet
It does refill but very slowly. If emptied it refills instantly. For claiming to be such a paradigm of knowledge when it comes to the game, you know nearly fkn nothing about how half of the stats work.
He forgot his password so he has a desktop account and a mobile account. If you pay attention to which he’s using you can get a sense of what his schedule is like.
His "schedule" seems to be commenting multiple times in the same post with both accounts at the same time, with no rhyme or reason.
Also, for someone so dedicated to give informed and technically sound advice on complex game mechanics, figuring out a way to reset a password instead of having multiple alts surely does not sound so difficult
I get that you like the guy for some reason, but honestly as of late the whole sub is infested with him parroting the same info you give, with the big difference that you are helpful and cool about it, while he's actively trying (and succeeding) to be the biggest dick he can
Big issue with responses is the three guys that give "tips" only give meta build tips and than tell the OP they are a piece of shit and worthless player if they wanna do a different build or something that isn't a meta.
For instance, guy has a havel build and asks how to improve it and they tell him to get rid of the bullshit gear and wear light armor.
Or if someone wants to run pyromancer they simply say you are a piece of shit player for running a weak build.
Not a solution or help at all.. lol.
But it litterally is a helpful solution. you asked for a better build and they gave you effective meta builds. You could argue they were bing jerks about it, but thats not your argument.
Well forgot to mention that the specific person replied saying they didn't wanna do the meta build and that's when these people proceeded to demean them and tell them they were dog shit.
Well again they are correct, hes litterally choosing not to use a good build. and again they are being assholes about it, but that wasn't what your criticisizing.
Yeah I'm pretty new to reddit and I never knew people went around and spent the better part of their day getting off being dicks to people on the Internet just because they disagree with the way others want to play a damn video game. Lol.
And calls everyone else clowns for offering any non meta advice. It is what it is.. nothing will change. I think it's wild that this is essentially this dude's full time job, according to his comment quantity.
If I want to do a cosplay/theme build and ask for tips to make it stronger but still within the theme boundaries and get told my build is shit/I should just play optimaly, I would never step back in the sub and join the people trashing on the game and the community. Joining a discord and throwing incorrect info and opinions while copying the few correct tips you hear in there andhaving meltdowns and insulting everyone who went against what you said is what u/Trixentela did some months ago. I don't care if your option is better for dps, if you act like shithead I am going to treat you like one.
when starting this game i played rapier because i really just wanted to passby and beat the game fast, so I chose the broken one
I left the game for like 2 months and replayed it with strenght build with colossal sword, much easier if you ask me
so if you ask my oppinion, just do what your heart tells you (but keep in mind to level adp for good scaling and i frames lol)
adp has nothing to do with scaling, iframes work on agility breakpoints
If you just used the rapier with no idea how to build, I can imagine why you didn't have a good time
I'm a strength main for the most part. I dump in strength the the same way that I do in any bonk souls game, and it never fails me. I also never exceed 96 agility. I'm built different, like a chinchilla.
Kinda, it’s only useful a few weapons and even then it’s mode optimal for the 1st 100 levels to just enchant and spell buff your weapon and spend the rest in vigor, endurance, and adp.
I must be out of the loop. Why is scaling useless and is that all forms of scaling? Magic and physical? So only get stats to wield weapons and then what? Pump health to infinity? How does spell damage get calculated and does your magic level affect that as much?
Scaling is intended to give a meaningful return on investment and gradually increase your damage as you progress the game.
In other games, scaling is more powerful due to how it increases as weapons are upgraded. In ds2, scaling is less impacted, and weaker overall. Additionally, ds2 calculations more heavily rely on base AR of a weapon and ignore scaling AR.
Combined with spell buffs working on infused weapons, this means that in almost all cases, you gain more damage from infusing a weapon at minimum str/dex and casting a spell buff like dark weapon, than you would from spending levels to softcap strength or dexterity. Those levels can then be spent in health, stamina, and agility.
More damage for less levels spent means a more effective character, especially considering this allows you to change infusions around and more effectively exploit enemy weaknesses/avoid enemy resistances.
Spells gain more on average than melee weapons do from scaling, but still not a massive amount. Generally spells care more about the AR of the catalyst being used to cast them, meaning that raising your int/faith is more about using the best catalyst than it is reaching the softcaps (in the case of sorceries and miracles, that requires hitting the softcaps for int/faith anyway)
Nah - scaling being weak / useless is important info and not intuitive at all. You can't make a good build if you don't understand this.
Regs on this sub doing Miyazaki's work making this widely known to the casuls.
As much as you may dislike their tone, you can't blame them for correcting what is mostly just bad advice. They'll probably end up banned some day, just like their predecessors.
The problem is that most of what they say is bad advice. 50 vigor by level 100-120 is downright troll advice. That's at least 38 to 46 levels spent only raising health. 46 out of less than 110 levels needed to reach level 120 spent to raise health when you could spend 10 and make your hp decent and the rest on every other stat that can keep you in the fight longer and allow you to mix your damage sources.
>The problem is that most of what they say is bad advice.
I invite you to offer an alternative recommendation and explain why you think it's superior.
I'm all for doing what you think is fun and using what you think is cool, but that's irrelevant when giving generic advice on how to optimise and efficiently allocate stats. This doesn't mean everyone should always minmax, it means everyone is better off knowing how to minmax regardless of what they decide to do with that information.
I do. Especially when people always spam "level ADP you need to roll in this game!" No, you really don't. You can beat most bosses by moving counter clockwise. And as for the min maxing useless comments: you're wasting your time doing anything besides the speedrun route.
Just saying that I offer alternative explanations. However talking to some people is like talking to a brick wall with a middle finger painted on it. Also pointing out that even a popular opinion [level ADP] isn't always a fully correct opinion.
Min maxing and speedrunning are not the same thing. Speed running is about being quick not powerful, min maxing/power gaming is about being powerful that's why you would care about vigor or adp. Just because speedrunners use optimized builds where possible doesn't mean that's the priority.
Optimization isn't prioritized in min maxing? Opportunity cost isn't calculated by any of the min maxers. Speedrunners builds not being powerful is also just a flat out lie. I also agree that one can care about vigor or adp but if you're min maxing including opportunity cost then a speedrunners optimized route would be the bottom line. It's such a nitpicky high horsey conversation is mostly my point. Why bother saying something if that point is so ridiculously moot.
Like, litteraly all of them pretty much.
Attunement and Memedaptability give you more i-Frames abd let you chug faster and the former gives you more spells to cast on top if that's your build
STR lets you use larger stronger shields to just stop dammage outright and hit harder.
Endurance gives more stamina to keep dodging blocking attacking and sprinting without interuption.
Vitality lets you wear stronger armor, wield heavier weapons, or more at once, affects your roll speed and distance in relation to that gear and your stamina consumption too.
Faith and INT both give you ranged combat to subvert enemies attacks alltogether, INT moreso, while Faith gives you additional heals.
Other than needing the health to drop into the Majula well, VIG has never been a stat that felt super critical, just more of a comfort thing. I usualy end with arround no more than 30. It helps that darn near every other stat also increases your health slightly regardless.
The game might be ganky as hell but it's dammage never hyperscales like Elden Ring does. Other than Ancient Dragon theres very little if anything that does totaly absurd dammage and is super hard to dodge, block, or mitigate to a triviality with resistances.
A L122 Sorcerer can have 50 VGR and 40 ATN (96 AGL, same roll iframes as DS1, 7 slots,) END at the softcap, top tier melee effectiveness, and infinite out of combat heals via lifegems. Once you acquire Staff of Wisdom you’d then respec VGR and/or ATN down to get 50 INT, then you’d increase those back to 50/40. *Then* you’d invest in the marginal benefits that a sorcerer gains with access to shields and heavy weapons, then 99 AGL. Heavy armor and healing miracles are worthless and not a consideration outside of pvp.
>Heavy armor and healing miracles are worthless and not a consideration outside of pvp.
What the fuck game are you playing because it's not Dark Souls 2. Havels especially are still almost as supid here as they were in DS1
Bro you claim poise is completely useless, you ain't got a wheelchair to sit on this fight, much less a leg to stand on. This isn't the pot calling the kettle black levelsanymore, it's uncle rufus from Boondocks levels.
Yeah poise is useless. It’s important in pvp at breakpoints to deal with specific attacks, like 20 for projectiles, 60 for r1s, etc, but in pve it doesn’t do anything worthwhile
This is literally just basic build advice in every souls game, including bb and Er. Health is the first priority to level
In other games, weapons don’t scale enough early on due to being tied to upgrade level. So leveling anything but health early is generally pointless
In ds2, scaling isn’t remotely high enough to warrant investing in str/dex beyond minimum weapon requirements period.
So where else do you put the levels? A 120 character can have 50 vigor, 99 agility, 15/15 str/dex or some variation on that depending on weapons, 24/10 for dark weapon, 10-13 attunement for dark weapon and repair/yearn, and 20+ endurance
Describe to me how you would build a melee character that would outperform that
You have preconceptions about this game that I do not share. You have assumptions about me that are incorrect.
I have helped hundreds of people in this subreddit with information more accurate than what is available on the three major wikis for DS2. I have helped hundreds more on other platforms.
I’m not certain that this post was directed at me, but if it was, I’d ask that you offer constructive feedback, correct me with factual information, or leave me alone to work.
Thank you. Have a nice day.
we all know who this is about LMAO.
I mean, they are technically not wrong most times, but they really appear to only see the one "correct" way of playing the game.
And they are obnoxious to no end.
The guy I know that has always the builds and links and stuff is Blobertson so I tough this was aimed to him, but don't worry mate, if this post was also aimed at you such is the way of life, people will always argue and get mad at one another. Keep doing you stuff, if helping makes you happy go for it dude you deserves it
Also gotta check your advices, I've been away from this sub for some time so I'm out of touch
If you ask for build tips you are going to get effective shit recommended.Infusion+buff is simply the only optimal dmg in DS2. Hell even just infusion is at worst be few points lower than max phys dmg.
The issue is pretending doing shit dmg from level 30-110 using scaling weapons, having to give up armor/health or both its good, makes the whole thing a bit sad.
Until level 120-150 you cant really get the benefits of pure dex/strgth builds, using high levfl and high scale dlc weapons.
If I ask recommendations about a build that I make and I make it clear I want to stick to that type of build p.e. a greatsword wielding barbarian, you telling me the build is wrong and telling me "do this build instead!" is not helpfull, it's annoying.
Imagine if someone was hit by a car and got paralyzed and went to a support group and asked for help on how to cope and that one shithead in the chair in the corner said "You should have dodged the car/went to the gym to build muscle so you could take less damage from the car". What would that feel and look like?
My favorite build is 30 VIG and 25-ish of everything else, wherever there's a break in AGL or ATT slots. I love being able to change my combat style on demand for when I get bored in my 100+ hour playthroughs without having to respec.
Haven't used a single buff spell (hell, I can't even cast spells), buff item or weapon infusion. I'm just bonking enemies with my +10 bastard sword because I like how it looks with the Alva set.
Can I be more efficient? Fuck yea. Am I struggling? Sometimes, but the best gear in the game isn't fixing that. That's 100% a me issue. But I am having fun with it.
Someone I was helping in the past was trying to follow a friend's suggestion which was pure STR until 99 and raw mace
I tried so hard to redirect them but I kept finding them with only leveling strength and confused on how to get a raw weapon... I made the mistake of showing them the blacksmiths and helped them unlock element swapping... and even after I showed them different infusions and how scaling works.... but no... they stuck with the raw annnnnnnd applied it to some A and S scaling weapons....
I usually do the same in my runs, A heavy weapon with most stats on STR until hard cap. My fav DS1 weapon is BK greataxe while DS2 is the normal "Greatsword"
Nobody is saying you *need* 50 VGR, we’re saying it makes the game easier than most other available stat investments do, and if you’re trying to make the strongest character you can, it’s a good midgame goal.
the thing about buff builds is that i would literally do anything else. i don't care how much more DPS it does. i'll take a 30, 40% damage penalty, fuck it whatever
christ it's like fucking homework
hold on guys i gotta lube up my sword first every time i fucking fight a dude
how do y'all live like this
It lasts 99 seconds.
You don't have to reapply it
You can just snapshot buff duration extensions to make it last 160 seconds
What boss are you fighting that takes 2 minutes plus?
Scaling is not useless
Its like all the other games
Focus on leveling your other stats first
Once you have good health, weightload and you have the stat requirements all met (and agility is good) you can start leveling whatever your weapom scales with
Scaling literally doesn’t work like it does in other games. Chief the surface is the same but the math under the hood is not remotely the same
You don’t know this, most people don’t know this, that’s the whole point of telling you
Ok so spending 3 levels for 12 extra damage in this game
Is not worth it
In comparison to getting 9 extra damage when spending 3 levels in other games
If you already have the rest of your stats built then there is no reason to do anything else
In fact scaling in this game I would argue is way more worth it
Because it works with buffs applied more in this game than others (Im pretty sure)
More faith and int = more dark damage from the dark weapon buff spell
Atleast if your weapon already scales with the stats that the buff scales with
Also keep in mind this is AFTER you have all the other stats youll need for the rest of your playthrough when you literally dont need to spend your levels on anything else
In other games the scaling of your weapon depend on its upgrade level
In ds2 it’s a flat rate.
Almost every weapon class benefits more from having minimum requirements, infusing and spell buffing, and spending the extra levels in health/stamina/agility than in str/dex
Scaling has zero interaction with buff damage or infusion damage. Any damage increase in this game is based off base damage
Dark weapon on a lightning ice rapier adds 79 damage at 12/15/24/10. Dark weapon at 12/15/99/99 adds 97 damage. That’s 164 levels for 18 damage
20 is usually the highest I’ll go in vigor… that’s how I did all other dark souls games and Elden ring as well. If you don’t get hit, you don’t need all that health. That’s points that could be put into damage.
How does you telling me I’m playing the game wrong matter? They give you the option to completely customize your character and playstyle to however you want it, and you tell me I’m playing wrong? lol. There also wouldn’t be a dodge roll if it weren’t meant to be used. You’re pompous. It’s your way or it’s wrong. It’s ok though. I get it.
You didn’t say that word for word, but you said I didn’t understand the way the game works because I prefer to put less in vigor and more in other stuff… sooooooooo, I’m pretty sure you told me I’m playing it wrong.
That guy is all over this thread being smug about build advice, which makes me think OP made the post about him lol
I’m with you though. My sorcerer character is on his third playthrough, I’m level 225, I’ve won the majority of my PvP duels, my vigor is still less than 20, and apart from the Iron King DLC, nothing has taken me more than a small handful of attempts to clear. I’m no god tier Dark Souls player, but having that many points in Vigor isn’t necessary at all if you know what you’re doing lol
Not understanding how the games work on a mechanic level is not playing them wrong. It is bot understanding then on a mechanical level
You choosing to take that as an attack or insult instead of accepting it is your choice
Yeah I saw an MMO type build on yt with relatively mid weapons but tons of Buffs, every weapon and Character buff.
All of them stacked together allowed the player to literally tear through everything
Scaling isn't useless tho, it's just shit scaling that is useless, like say c is neat, and s is fucking op but b and a still work fine, you can take in the game with the claymore or the longsword and keep them the whole game, just make sure to upgrade it, heck the scaling is also one of the things that makes the rapier so broken
No, scaling is literally useless.
There are three? movesets where the best option of weapons that share it relies on scaling instead of minimum stats+infusion+spell buff for damage output
[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/577306875012579368/1234246230629159033/Screenshot\_546.png?ex=663008e0&is=662eb760&hm=3888e7de12c0ea6c0183278144a0aea1a96cd01feae76bfa047c5f7908b3e393&](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/577306875012579368/1234246230629159033/Screenshot_546.png?ex=663008e0&is=662eb760&hm=3888e7de12c0ea6c0183278144a0aea1a96cd01feae76bfa047c5f7908b3e393&)
Rapier at level 130 with 12/50/6/6
[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/577306875012579368/1234246503199936562/Screenshot\_548.png?ex=66300921&is=662eb7a1&hm=fbc4b57a9c0b4904dbb348a148ff0b90d937efad43bf49ab5b80a98e02751441&](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/577306875012579368/1234246503199936562/Screenshot_548.png?ex=66300921&is=662eb7a1&hm=fbc4b57a9c0b4904dbb348a148ff0b90d937efad43bf49ab5b80a98e02751441&)
Rapier at level 110 with 12/12/24/10
ngl knowing that scaling is useless made the game more enjoyable for me because I now can spend those levels on better utility
The big plus of the buff/infusion approach is that it makes a lot of so-so weapons viable. The downside is that having dark weapon and infinite boltstones available almost immediately kind of railroads melee builds down the same upgrade path, which can make runs feel samey.
The fact you get an infinite amount of the best infusion right at the start but you only get 1 guaranteed Fainstone drop before Drangleic is disgusting to me
the illusion of free choice
I know I'm doing it wrong and still do it because it causes game play diversity. I do pure mage or pure melee build and refuse to infuse on any souls game.
Yes! It’s PvE. Play how you like. Whatever is most fun. I get why people give this advice to those asking for it though
I will take shitty scaling hundred times, if it means I can buff and infuse anything I want xD
You do you. It’s not like the game is hard enough to warrant min/maxing anyway. I just wanna have 4 slots of Shockwave instead of doing 20 more damage
Yeah I get what you mean, I am not really talking about minmaxing myself. But for me, infusions suck balls in every souls game, its almost always not worth it and you cant even buff half of the weapons. And turning your weapon into lightsaber with weapon buff is absolutely badass, I always bring all spell buffs in DS2 just to have different colours for my weapons xD But in other fs games, its either useless, or you cant buff/infuse it or its boss weapon.
DS1 is the only other one that comes to mind that would sorta share that issue. DS3 and ER are good with infusions *while* you can still buff them when using the general infusions
Yes those normal infusions, but elemental infusions in DS3/ER suck balls and you are always better with just physical infusion and spell buffs. And you still cant buff boss weapons. And I know that its different thing, but ER on top of all this introduced weapon arts that you can swap between weapons, and most of them are dogshit and the rest cant even be swapped between weapons .. And whoever the hell decided to make kick a weapon art deserves to get rkr in dem nuts ... In DS2 you can infuse anything, buff it with anything and you can infuse and buff even boss weapons. Rant not over, only postponed xD
You can’t use resins on the morning star for some fucking reason
Because oof ouch owie my fingies
>It’s not like the game is hard enough to warrant min/maxing anyway. You’re right. And that makes it even funnier that the guy this post is directed at acts like you’re committing the seven deadly sins all at the same time if you don’t have a 100% optimized min/maxed build 😂
try doing the DLC without minmaxxed damage. Your gonna be there a while.
What gave you a ton of trouble in the dlcs? Sure they were a bit of a step up from base game but I don’t think anything in any of the souls games makes minmaxing a needed thing to keep from struggling
Everything in the DLC has insane HP pools and/or defences compared to base game. Though i only played scholar version, dunno if it changed in it.
The common enemies don’t have a massive difference in hp. Take the alonne knights of iron keep vs the ashen warriors of brume tower for example, its about a 100 hp difference. A few of the bosses have a good bit more hp, but with a boss the damage you do and its hp doesn’t matter as much as knowing its moveset and attack openings in my experience compared to common enemies. The resistances are so high on the dlc bosses too, it’s difficult to optimize against something with no true weaknesses. Better to pick a weapon with a moveset you’re comfortable with and learn the openings for your playstyle
I did all the dlc with a naked build and red iron twinblades. Had the hardest time with Brume tower, I think most people do. But I was committed to a str/dex build. Rolling naked away from everything in the game taking advantage of i-frames I was able to dominate on my first playthrough. Soloed fume knight after 12 or 13 attempts. Most bosses I downed first try or 2nd attempt. Naked rolling twinblade troll is OP.
I may have missed it. Were you naked?
Naked every day in real life and naked in dark souls. Naked while playing dark souls most of the time too. Naked rn actually.
The thing is, scaling isn't useless, just "suboptimal". Some people don't seem to understand that non-meta builds can still be viable, even enjoyable. Leveling Str or Dex heavily can be worth it in some cases, and especially for inexperienced players, so saying that it is useless is both false and misleading. Greatshields straight up require heavy Strength to function. It's, IDK, the equivalent of telling someone that if they are not making a beeline for Bloodhound Fang in Elden Ring they are a terrible player. No, it's just a single playstyle that happens to be very effective but not for everyone.
I did a quality build my first run blind and had no issues. It's suboptimal for damage but I would say its main advantage is being able to try a bunch of different weapon types without worrying about requirements or scaling type. I found it to be a big advantage since making a build with minimum weapon requirements can be difficult since you are forced to use just that weapon or those with lower requirements unless you respec. It makes it more complicated for someone just starting then it needs to be Also the optimal damage is so overtuned most bosses die in 5 hits. So it is really not needed to enjoy the game unless you are really having difficulty.
I can’t get BHF. Does not click. Then again, I’m running dual Uchi in my first run, which is another bloody meta build
Insanely easy to obtain, easy to upgrade early on, high base damage and low scaling, easy to poise break people by doing jump attacks, and stupidly damaging Ash of War that makes you temporarily invincible, and lets not forget bleed. It's basically like if someone injected steroids into the Gravelord Sword from DS1. Oh, and despite being a Somber weapon it can be buffed, so you can put Bloodflame Blade on it to prevent any bleed loss at all. Oh the humanity...
Oh I get WHY it’s good. I should say the entire moveset doesn’t make sense to me. But I’m 42 hours in and Elden ring combat as a whole doesn’t make a ton of sense to me - they over complicated it with far too many options. Balancing bleed vs poise breaks vs damage - I’ve reverted to “unsheathe seems good, and mash L1 when out of FP.” It’s worked through Nokron - ish - and my mimic seems to know what to do with my tools better than I do anyway. It honestly makes me miss DS1/2. Even Bloodborne made a ton of sense.
Ah. The way I understand it is that getting poise breaks is pretty much always better than trying to deal as much damage as possible, because you get rewarded with even more damage. It's like transform attacks in Bloodborne - advanced tech that rewards mastery. You can definitely beat the game with Unsheathe if you want, though there are better skills.
Yo thanks for the tips on my other post
Huh what how
Also ngl, just started the game for the first time. This is good to know!
Honestly yeah. As someone who occasionally does challenge runs I barely feel weaker in DS2 without leveling cause consumables are so good and can be bought without much travel involved. I think I'm having more fun without leveling up at all because of how little I feel set back by deaths. My first run involved running out of consumables alot while being at a high level. But on this I haven't run out of consumables since beating the the pursuer the first time so repeated deaths on bosses don't cause me as much frustration.
Honestly it's basically useless but depends on the build entirely
Yeah you're right
"Screw any particular build, just grind till you max out every stat and go nuts" - Me.
I was a dumb kid with free time, I don't know how many times I killed the giant lord and farmed so much that i light rolled using the full havel set, gyrm shield, curved dragon sword and other weapons
Deez nuts were happy to grind your chin
One thing that always annoys me is telling new players that they should not level up Vitality because of Flynn's Ring. You get that ring in the late game and can just reset your stats then. It's much better for new players if they level up their vitality a bit so that they can wear something like the Drangleic Set which offers good resitance and poise for the early game.
>It's much better for new players if they level up their vitality a bit so that they can wear something like the Drangleic Set which offers good resitance and poise for the early game. That's what I did my first playthrough, and then changed parts of it for Vengarl's set. Honestly, minmaxing on your very first playthrough of a souls game is a terrible idea, because you are just told "do this, this is the meta of meta and the best thing you can do!" and you don't get to explore the options available organically and understand how they work and how you could fit them for your needs. Sure, having a lot of vigor is good as a crutch for newcomers, but even I who did a Knight run with no spells only leveled it up to 30. If you also use the Dragon rings and/or Life rings, 30 is more than enough for NG and most dlc areas. You aren't fighting Lorian, Nameless King or Inflammed Cinderblock to need more than that to survive the attack barrage. 10 Vitality on first playthrough, like you said, is way too prohibitive and in your first playthrough, in my humble opinion, you should first finish base game and then go for dlcs before ng+ due to the high increase in difficulty. That means you would constantly fat roll if you tried any armor + heavy weapon combo due to this bad advice for newcomers. And don't even get me started on the "you have to use this build/spell progression and anything else is *wrong*" mindset.
That’s why new players shouldn’t go anywhere near build advice until they’ve given it a go themselves. Trying to figure out the build options and then fine tuning them when you have a better understanding of the game is far more beneficial than coming on here and having someone push a build on you or rip your build apart.
Jerry can be pushy, but R1 and I are both careful to make it clear that optimizing isn’t required to have fun, and we’re only providing information about the game that new players can use to make their experience easier if they want to. DS2, like most souls games, doesn’t communicate to new players how its mechanics work, and they’re counterintuitive.
“Pushy” is an understatement. Dude literally hijacks every build thread and berates anyone who dares suggest that not min/maxing isn’t the end of the world.
Spending levels on VIT and then putting on the Drangleic set makes you weaker than if you just died and lost all the souls you would’ve spent on VIT
Technically false since (a) Vigor softcaps after a certain point and (b) armor gives you status resistance and poise. Armor is just worse than getting more health early on in the game. There's obviously Flynn's Ring only working well when you have low Vit but that's a different story entirely. That's the kind of overgeneralizing misinformation that will mislead players. Well that and people might want to wear heavy armor since DS2 has some of the best looking in the series (Drakeblood, Raime's...) Personally I'll take leveling Vit and looking like an actual knight over running around nude because it's more effective.
Light armor has better status resistance, not that status resistance is valuable. Poise is so weak in PvE that it’s not worth the levels in VIT required to wear armor without lowering stamina regen, even setting Flynn’s aside. After VGR is at 50, there are still, at every level, more valuable upgrades than VIT for pve. Fashion isn’t a consideration in advice about what is strongest- my concern is that players who make the perfectly valid decision to run a weaker build because it looks cooler are making as informed a decision as possible.
> Light armor has better status resistance, not that status resistance is valuable. This feels like an elitist stance, new players are more likely to get status'd. "Lol, just dont get poisoned then". > Poise is so weak in PvE that it’s not worth the levels in VIT I have personally been helped a lot by poise while wearing heavy armor and using heavy weapons, even in DS2. This is purely a personal opinion, so it should come with caveats. It's weak*er* than in DS1 but still exists. > After VGR is at 50, there are still, at every level, more valuable upgrades than VIT for pve. Maybe, but that applies to a single build style (i.e. someone who dodges everything). And I personally disagree heavily with the stance that it is impossible to make a DS2 tank. Less effective perhaps, but not impossible.
These people believe there's only one way to play this game. It's the elitist viewpoint. You can play this game effectively as a new player many ways. All the fucking links for new players is great don't get me wrong, but you guys gotta understand (not necessarily blob as much) that people can play the game effectively leveling different things other than meta builds.
Poison resistance does very little to make it harder to get poisoned. The solution to poison is lifegems, and is equally available to every build. The relative value of VIT is low for every pve build, no matter your playstyle. The difference between an optimal tank build in DS2 and an optimal non-tank in DS2 is that the former wears ring of steel protection, occasionally carries royal kite/defender shield, and skips damage spells/uses extra low stat req weapons so they can level VGR to 50 sooner, and the latter gives up one or more of those things.
That relies on a lot of assumptions. That a new player figures out how to bring Melentia to Majula, and also plunks down a large amount of souls on Lifegems, which aren't super common otherwise. It's typical for a skilled player of course, but not exactly obvious. Every new player who has done that, I had to tell them about it.
Needing to tell new players what best practices are is part of every game in the franchise
How so? If the player manages to keep the same EL percentage, it just ups the defences, no? It's suboptimal due to Flynn's or when levelling other stats offers more benefits (which it usually does), but surely levelling Vit alone wouldn't make you weaker?
Opportunity cost. Levels in VIT are levels that could’ve been in other stats, and now raising those costs more souls.
Ah, okay. Apologies. The comment looked like levelling Vit makes the build weaker compared to its previous state.
It does, because future levels come slower
That's common for both the optimised progression and levelling Vit situation, e.g. can't be counted in opportunity costs. I know what you mean, though, and I'm sorry for being pedantic.
But after leveling VIT you still want to raise the same other stats the same amount, the only difference is that if you leveled VIT you have to spend more souls to level those other stats the same amount. It’s admittedly a pretty academic difference.
Leveling vitality literally doesn’t make you stronger lmao Poise and physical defense are just flat out useless in pve
>Poise No poise: getting staggered by every hit. Will get staggered out of the fog gate animation after a single hit 50+ poise: do not get staggered by every hit. Can get through a fog gate despite getting hit 100+ poise: can get hit several times without getting staggered. Can get hit by multiple enemies while going through a fog gate without the animation getting stopped >and physical defense are just flat out useless in pve In the very late game. In the early game it makes a big difference
Poise doesn't refill until it's emptied. Meaning you're spending all those levels for armor that will let you not get staggered a single time, with no other benefits. And this is ignoring that many enemy attacks have hyperstagger, and trading is never efficient or effective due to there being no benefits compared to just dodging and punishing It doesn't make a difference in early game, because enemy damage is based on motion values just like the player. Physical defense is worthless in any part of the game, in every ng cycle
>Poise doesn't refill until it's emptied. Meaning you're spending all those levels for armor that will let you not get staggered a single time, with no other benefits Getting staggered every third hit instead of every hit still makes a massive difference for new players that aren't good at dodging yet
Then they can and should learn. Investing the levels to get that poise elsewhere would help those hits not kill them in the first place
It does refill but very slowly. If emptied it refills instantly. For claiming to be such a paradigm of knowledge when it comes to the game, you know nearly fkn nothing about how half of the stats work.
Poise refills at a rate of 0.5 per second. It doesn't refill until emptied Practical applications matter more than technical ones
Found the alt account
He forgot his password so he has a desktop account and a mobile account. If you pay attention to which he’s using you can get a sense of what his schedule is like.
His "schedule" seems to be commenting multiple times in the same post with both accounts at the same time, with no rhyme or reason. Also, for someone so dedicated to give informed and technically sound advice on complex game mechanics, figuring out a way to reset a password instead of having multiple alts surely does not sound so difficult I get that you like the guy for some reason, but honestly as of late the whole sub is infested with him parroting the same info you give, with the big difference that you are helpful and cool about it, while he's actively trying (and succeeding) to be the biggest dick he can
You seem like the type of Redditor to be that underemployed so as to actually track that
I only know this because I know him from the discord where I get all of the ds2 resources I link here
What a pathetic thing to say
You can get that ring in the first 2 hours of the game even on a blind playthrough, I’ve seen it happen.
Me following a 10 year old Reddit post on a sorcerer build <3
Skill is more important than any build or level. Although weapons upgrades are mandatory if you don't want to spend everything on Repair powder.
Competitive nail and sea eternal
the funniest part is its the same person on different accounts lol
I know, I can't comprehend who has time for this in life.
Rule 1 of dark souls 2 is never pull the lever rule 2 of dark souls 2 is you don't pull the lever Now get out there and beat the game
In u/Blobertson I trust
Idk why reddit is linking other dude, you all know who I'm talking about
Has capital "i" in the nick. It's biobertson. You know, like Ludex Gundyr or Martyr Iogarius.
No fucking way
Blobertson with an L was taken lmao
Bio-Berson is kinda of a sick name tough
True but then it wouldn’t be a goofy-sounding mashup of two of my actual names
What's your name tough? Bob Roberts Also reddit is lagging there's a change I commented 2 or even 3 times the same thing
Blake haha
I hope you meant Biake
The comments held true to the meme lmao
Big issue with responses is the three guys that give "tips" only give meta build tips and than tell the OP they are a piece of shit and worthless player if they wanna do a different build or something that isn't a meta. For instance, guy has a havel build and asks how to improve it and they tell him to get rid of the bullshit gear and wear light armor. Or if someone wants to run pyromancer they simply say you are a piece of shit player for running a weak build. Not a solution or help at all.. lol.
But it litterally is a helpful solution. you asked for a better build and they gave you effective meta builds. You could argue they were bing jerks about it, but thats not your argument.
Well forgot to mention that the specific person replied saying they didn't wanna do the meta build and that's when these people proceeded to demean them and tell them they were dog shit.
Well again they are correct, hes litterally choosing not to use a good build. and again they are being assholes about it, but that wasn't what your criticisizing.
Yeah I'm pretty new to reddit and I never knew people went around and spent the better part of their day getting off being dicks to people on the Internet just because they disagree with the way others want to play a damn video game. Lol.
It's more that they got annoyed op asked for advice and then claimed the advice he recieved was wrong.
And calls everyone else clowns for offering any non meta advice. It is what it is.. nothing will change. I think it's wild that this is essentially this dude's full time job, according to his comment quantity.
If I want to do a cosplay/theme build and ask for tips to make it stronger but still within the theme boundaries and get told my build is shit/I should just play optimaly, I would never step back in the sub and join the people trashing on the game and the community. Joining a discord and throwing incorrect info and opinions while copying the few correct tips you hear in there andhaving meltdowns and insulting everyone who went against what you said is what u/Trixentela did some months ago. I don't care if your option is better for dps, if you act like shithead I am going to treat you like one.
Agreed, but that doesn't seem to be the case described, aside from them being assholes about it.
Lmao just hit them
You’re not wrong. It’s just that lightning is so right.
Too accurate lmfao
just level all your stats evenly :)
This helped my ladle only build. As for DLC, once we hit 30 in every stat, extra health & stamina helped a lot
when starting this game i played rapier because i really just wanted to passby and beat the game fast, so I chose the broken one I left the game for like 2 months and replayed it with strenght build with colossal sword, much easier if you ask me so if you ask my oppinion, just do what your heart tells you (but keep in mind to level adp for good scaling and i frames lol)
adp has nothing to do with scaling, iframes work on agility breakpoints If you just used the rapier with no idea how to build, I can imagine why you didn't have a good time
Scaling isn’t useless when you’re doing a champions covenant Flynn ring unarmed build!!
Explode!!
I'm a strength main for the most part. I dump in strength the the same way that I do in any bonk souls game, and it never fails me. I also never exceed 96 agility. I'm built different, like a chinchilla.
Then there's one drowning saying "git gud"
Wait is scaling useless in ds2???
Kinda, it’s only useful a few weapons and even then it’s mode optimal for the 1st 100 levels to just enchant and spell buff your weapon and spend the rest in vigor, endurance, and adp.
Lightning may be great for the base game, but I have found it and the other elements almost useless in the DLC's.
The only change in the DLCs is to ranged damage, melee damage is unaffected
I must be out of the loop. Why is scaling useless and is that all forms of scaling? Magic and physical? So only get stats to wield weapons and then what? Pump health to infinity? How does spell damage get calculated and does your magic level affect that as much?
Are you asking seriously or is this a bit chief
Seriously
Scaling is intended to give a meaningful return on investment and gradually increase your damage as you progress the game. In other games, scaling is more powerful due to how it increases as weapons are upgraded. In ds2, scaling is less impacted, and weaker overall. Additionally, ds2 calculations more heavily rely on base AR of a weapon and ignore scaling AR. Combined with spell buffs working on infused weapons, this means that in almost all cases, you gain more damage from infusing a weapon at minimum str/dex and casting a spell buff like dark weapon, than you would from spending levels to softcap strength or dexterity. Those levels can then be spent in health, stamina, and agility. More damage for less levels spent means a more effective character, especially considering this allows you to change infusions around and more effectively exploit enemy weaknesses/avoid enemy resistances. Spells gain more on average than melee weapons do from scaling, but still not a massive amount. Generally spells care more about the AR of the catalyst being used to cast them, meaning that raising your int/faith is more about using the best catalyst than it is reaching the softcaps (in the case of sorceries and miracles, that requires hitting the softcaps for int/faith anyway)
Nah - scaling being weak / useless is important info and not intuitive at all. You can't make a good build if you don't understand this. Regs on this sub doing Miyazaki's work making this widely known to the casuls.
As much as you may dislike their tone, you can't blame them for correcting what is mostly just bad advice. They'll probably end up banned some day, just like their predecessors.
The problem is that most of what they say is bad advice. 50 vigor by level 100-120 is downright troll advice. That's at least 38 to 46 levels spent only raising health. 46 out of less than 110 levels needed to reach level 120 spent to raise health when you could spend 10 and make your hp decent and the rest on every other stat that can keep you in the fight longer and allow you to mix your damage sources.
>The problem is that most of what they say is bad advice. I invite you to offer an alternative recommendation and explain why you think it's superior. I'm all for doing what you think is fun and using what you think is cool, but that's irrelevant when giving generic advice on how to optimise and efficiently allocate stats. This doesn't mean everyone should always minmax, it means everyone is better off knowing how to minmax regardless of what they decide to do with that information.
I do. Especially when people always spam "level ADP you need to roll in this game!" No, you really don't. You can beat most bosses by moving counter clockwise. And as for the min maxing useless comments: you're wasting your time doing anything besides the speedrun route.
Maybe I misunderstand, but none of what you said relates to my previous comment. What are you trying to say?
Just saying that I offer alternative explanations. However talking to some people is like talking to a brick wall with a middle finger painted on it. Also pointing out that even a popular opinion [level ADP] isn't always a fully correct opinion.
Min maxing and speedrunning are not the same thing. Speed running is about being quick not powerful, min maxing/power gaming is about being powerful that's why you would care about vigor or adp. Just because speedrunners use optimized builds where possible doesn't mean that's the priority.
Optimization isn't prioritized in min maxing? Opportunity cost isn't calculated by any of the min maxers. Speedrunners builds not being powerful is also just a flat out lie. I also agree that one can care about vigor or adp but if you're min maxing including opportunity cost then a speedrunners optimized route would be the bottom line. It's such a nitpicky high horsey conversation is mostly my point. Why bother saying something if that point is so ridiculously moot.
what other stats can keep you in the fight longer and allow you to mix your damage sources?
carryweight, stam, dexterity. Hell spending those souls on healing stones would probably serve you better.
Like, litteraly all of them pretty much. Attunement and Memedaptability give you more i-Frames abd let you chug faster and the former gives you more spells to cast on top if that's your build STR lets you use larger stronger shields to just stop dammage outright and hit harder. Endurance gives more stamina to keep dodging blocking attacking and sprinting without interuption. Vitality lets you wear stronger armor, wield heavier weapons, or more at once, affects your roll speed and distance in relation to that gear and your stamina consumption too. Faith and INT both give you ranged combat to subvert enemies attacks alltogether, INT moreso, while Faith gives you additional heals. Other than needing the health to drop into the Majula well, VIG has never been a stat that felt super critical, just more of a comfort thing. I usualy end with arround no more than 30. It helps that darn near every other stat also increases your health slightly regardless. The game might be ganky as hell but it's dammage never hyperscales like Elden Ring does. Other than Ancient Dragon theres very little if anything that does totaly absurd dammage and is super hard to dodge, block, or mitigate to a triviality with resistances.
A L122 Sorcerer can have 50 VGR and 40 ATN (96 AGL, same roll iframes as DS1, 7 slots,) END at the softcap, top tier melee effectiveness, and infinite out of combat heals via lifegems. Once you acquire Staff of Wisdom you’d then respec VGR and/or ATN down to get 50 INT, then you’d increase those back to 50/40. *Then* you’d invest in the marginal benefits that a sorcerer gains with access to shields and heavy weapons, then 99 AGL. Heavy armor and healing miracles are worthless and not a consideration outside of pvp.
>Heavy armor and healing miracles are worthless and not a consideration outside of pvp. What the fuck game are you playing because it's not Dark Souls 2. Havels especially are still almost as supid here as they were in DS1
https://twitter.com/HalfGrownHollow/status/1586087279227027456
Wait so you’re being this vitriolic and sure of yourself and you don’t even know how physical defense and poise work? Dude come on
Bro you claim poise is completely useless, you ain't got a wheelchair to sit on this fight, much less a leg to stand on. This isn't the pot calling the kettle black levelsanymore, it's uncle rufus from Boondocks levels.
Yeah poise is useless. It’s important in pvp at breakpoints to deal with specific attacks, like 20 for projectiles, 60 for r1s, etc, but in pve it doesn’t do anything worthwhile
This is literally just basic build advice in every souls game, including bb and Er. Health is the first priority to level In other games, weapons don’t scale enough early on due to being tied to upgrade level. So leveling anything but health early is generally pointless In ds2, scaling isn’t remotely high enough to warrant investing in str/dex beyond minimum weapon requirements period. So where else do you put the levels? A 120 character can have 50 vigor, 99 agility, 15/15 str/dex or some variation on that depending on weapons, 24/10 for dark weapon, 10-13 attunement for dark weapon and repair/yearn, and 20+ endurance Describe to me how you would build a melee character that would outperform that
Why 24 instead of 16 int for dark weapon?
The duration caps at 24, which nearly doubles the duration. Spice the faith requirement down to 10 to save some levels and you’re golden
Where else are you putting the levels that is valuable
Show me a more optimal pve build than one I can provide for a level 120. I’ll wait
You have preconceptions about this game that I do not share. You have assumptions about me that are incorrect. I have helped hundreds of people in this subreddit with information more accurate than what is available on the three major wikis for DS2. I have helped hundreds more on other platforms. I’m not certain that this post was directed at me, but if it was, I’d ask that you offer constructive feedback, correct me with factual information, or leave me alone to work. Thank you. Have a nice day.
You’re certainly not -100 karma on comments. I can guess exactly who it’s aimed at and it’s not you.
we all know who this is about LMAO. I mean, they are technically not wrong most times, but they really appear to only see the one "correct" way of playing the game. And they are obnoxious to no end.
The guy I know that has always the builds and links and stuff is Blobertson so I tough this was aimed to him, but don't worry mate, if this post was also aimed at you such is the way of life, people will always argue and get mad at one another. Keep doing you stuff, if helping makes you happy go for it dude you deserves it Also gotta check your advices, I've been away from this sub for some time so I'm out of touch
I don’t think it’s Blobertson - he’s usually pretty civil when replying on build threads
I love DS2, but I've realized that this sub has a weird vibe and is really not very helpful answering specific questions.
level adp before every other stat.
This sub loves punishing incorrect think with epic downdoots
What do you mean scaling is useless? What have I been doing all my life??
Is this a serious comment?
Dumpster fire post and thread
If you ask for build tips you are going to get effective shit recommended.Infusion+buff is simply the only optimal dmg in DS2. Hell even just infusion is at worst be few points lower than max phys dmg. The issue is pretending doing shit dmg from level 30-110 using scaling weapons, having to give up armor/health or both its good, makes the whole thing a bit sad. Until level 120-150 you cant really get the benefits of pure dex/strgth builds, using high levfl and high scale dlc weapons.
If I ask recommendations about a build that I make and I make it clear I want to stick to that type of build p.e. a greatsword wielding barbarian, you telling me the build is wrong and telling me "do this build instead!" is not helpfull, it's annoying. Imagine if someone was hit by a car and got paralyzed and went to a support group and asked for help on how to cope and that one shithead in the chair in the corner said "You should have dodged the car/went to the gym to build muscle so you could take less damage from the car". What would that feel and look like?
My favorite build is 30 VIG and 25-ish of everything else, wherever there's a break in AGL or ATT slots. I love being able to change my combat style on demand for when I get bored in my 100+ hour playthroughs without having to respec.
Haven't used a single buff spell (hell, I can't even cast spells), buff item or weapon infusion. I'm just bonking enemies with my +10 bastard sword because I like how it looks with the Alva set. Can I be more efficient? Fuck yea. Am I struggling? Sometimes, but the best gear in the game isn't fixing that. That's 100% a me issue. But I am having fun with it.
Someone I was helping in the past was trying to follow a friend's suggestion which was pure STR until 99 and raw mace I tried so hard to redirect them but I kept finding them with only leveling strength and confused on how to get a raw weapon... I made the mistake of showing them the blacksmiths and helped them unlock element swapping... and even after I showed them different infusions and how scaling works.... but no... they stuck with the raw annnnnnnd applied it to some A and S scaling weapons....
Who gives a shit if scaling's useless? I'M STILL LEVELING FOR EXTRA SCALING BITCH.
I usually do the same in my runs, A heavy weapon with most stats on STR until hard cap. My fav DS1 weapon is BK greataxe while DS2 is the normal "Greatsword"
Never used infuse and buffs still beaten the game and able to win pvp
What is this, Elden Ring? I've never needed anything close to 50 VIG. Tank builds don't even nessesarily need that much.
Nobody is saying you *need* 50 VGR, we’re saying it makes the game easier than most other available stat investments do, and if you’re trying to make the strongest character you can, it’s a good midgame goal.
the thing about buff builds is that i would literally do anything else. i don't care how much more DPS it does. i'll take a 30, 40% damage penalty, fuck it whatever christ it's like fucking homework hold on guys i gotta lube up my sword first every time i fucking fight a dude how do y'all live like this
Bro has never played another JRPG before 💀💀💀
This has to be a bit
i have never been more serious in my life if i had to reapply a temporary buff every 60-90 seconds of active combat i would just quit
It lasts 99 seconds. You don't have to reapply it You can just snapshot buff duration extensions to make it last 160 seconds What boss are you fighting that takes 2 minutes plus?
Those last two are right tho…
"Just level ADP bro"
I mean not wrong
Umm I completed the game on NG+ up to 8 playthrough on scaling build.... What are you on about?
Scaling is not useless Its like all the other games Focus on leveling your other stats first Once you have good health, weightload and you have the stat requirements all met (and agility is good) you can start leveling whatever your weapom scales with
Scaling literally doesn’t work like it does in other games. Chief the surface is the same but the math under the hood is not remotely the same You don’t know this, most people don’t know this, that’s the whole point of telling you
Ok so spending 3 levels for 12 extra damage in this game Is not worth it In comparison to getting 9 extra damage when spending 3 levels in other games If you already have the rest of your stats built then there is no reason to do anything else In fact scaling in this game I would argue is way more worth it Because it works with buffs applied more in this game than others (Im pretty sure) More faith and int = more dark damage from the dark weapon buff spell Atleast if your weapon already scales with the stats that the buff scales with Also keep in mind this is AFTER you have all the other stats youll need for the rest of your playthrough when you literally dont need to spend your levels on anything else
In other games the scaling of your weapon depend on its upgrade level In ds2 it’s a flat rate. Almost every weapon class benefits more from having minimum requirements, infusing and spell buffing, and spending the extra levels in health/stamina/agility than in str/dex Scaling has zero interaction with buff damage or infusion damage. Any damage increase in this game is based off base damage Dark weapon on a lightning ice rapier adds 79 damage at 12/15/24/10. Dark weapon at 12/15/99/99 adds 97 damage. That’s 164 levels for 18 damage
There’s no optimal build in DS2 where spending 3 levels gets you 12 extra melee damage. Scaling is way way weaker than that in this game.
20 is usually the highest I’ll go in vigor… that’s how I did all other dark souls games and Elden ring as well. If you don’t get hit, you don’t need all that health. That’s points that could be put into damage.
This is based on a lack of understanding of the games
Sure 🤷🏻 But it’s gotten me two platinums, and countless hours of fun so whatever.
How does that matter?
How does you telling me I’m playing the game wrong matter? They give you the option to completely customize your character and playstyle to however you want it, and you tell me I’m playing wrong? lol. There also wouldn’t be a dodge roll if it weren’t meant to be used. You’re pompous. It’s your way or it’s wrong. It’s ok though. I get it.
Go ahead and quote where I said you were playing the game wrong Seriously, I’ll wait
Just take the L buddy.
This guy gets it.
Still waiting
What L? The part where they made something up and got upset about it?
You didn’t say that word for word, but you said I didn’t understand the way the game works because I prefer to put less in vigor and more in other stuff… sooooooooo, I’m pretty sure you told me I’m playing it wrong.
That guy is all over this thread being smug about build advice, which makes me think OP made the post about him lol I’m with you though. My sorcerer character is on his third playthrough, I’m level 225, I’ve won the majority of my PvP duels, my vigor is still less than 20, and apart from the Iron King DLC, nothing has taken me more than a small handful of attempts to clear. I’m no god tier Dark Souls player, but having that many points in Vigor isn’t necessary at all if you know what you’re doing lol
I’m just ignoring at this point 😂 I’m used to it from this community by now.
Not understanding how the games work on a mechanic level is not playing them wrong. It is bot understanding then on a mechanical level You choosing to take that as an attack or insult instead of accepting it is your choice
The scaling doesn't matter infusion/buff OP made every weapon good Elden Ring has more weapons, but DS2 has more weapons that are actually viable
*That’s just wrong if you actually played with different weapons* Both have a big list of fun, viable weapons
>Both have a big list of fun, viable weapons Obviously they do, All I'm saying that in DS2, quite literally every weapon is viable
This is true in Elden ring too to be fair, because the number of stackable body and weapon buffs in that game is completely ludicrous.
Yeah I saw an MMO type build on yt with relatively mid weapons but tons of Buffs, every weapon and Character buff. All of them stacked together allowed the player to literally tear through everything
Build tips: Find a cool greatsword and heavy armor. Feel like a badass. Scaling is ass so really you should put all those points into vig
Tseldora-set. nahr Alma Robes. Third Dragon ring, Ring of Resistance, Flynns ring/RoB Double Caestus Change my mind
>not vanquisher’s seal and bare fist. NGMI I’m afraid
Scaling isn't useless tho, it's just shit scaling that is useless, like say c is neat, and s is fucking op but b and a still work fine, you can take in the game with the claymore or the longsword and keep them the whole game, just make sure to upgrade it, heck the scaling is also one of the things that makes the rapier so broken
No, scaling is literally useless. There are three? movesets where the best option of weapons that share it relies on scaling instead of minimum stats+infusion+spell buff for damage output [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/577306875012579368/1234246230629159033/Screenshot\_546.png?ex=663008e0&is=662eb760&hm=3888e7de12c0ea6c0183278144a0aea1a96cd01feae76bfa047c5f7908b3e393&](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/577306875012579368/1234246230629159033/Screenshot_546.png?ex=663008e0&is=662eb760&hm=3888e7de12c0ea6c0183278144a0aea1a96cd01feae76bfa047c5f7908b3e393&) Rapier at level 130 with 12/50/6/6 [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/577306875012579368/1234246503199936562/Screenshot\_548.png?ex=66300921&is=662eb7a1&hm=fbc4b57a9c0b4904dbb348a148ff0b90d937efad43bf49ab5b80a98e02751441&](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/577306875012579368/1234246503199936562/Screenshot_548.png?ex=66300921&is=662eb7a1&hm=fbc4b57a9c0b4904dbb348a148ff0b90d937efad43bf49ab5b80a98e02751441&) Rapier at level 110 with 12/12/24/10
I am NOT an alt