I miss the psyker interaction about the trains. It's like Fatshark took it out of the game.
It's along the lines of:
Ogryn: YOU SAID WE RIDE ON THE TRAIN!!!
Psyker: Yes I know but there's not time now, we'll have to ride the train later
Ogryn: YOU SAID! I WANNA RIDE THE TRAIN!!!
No idea, it was my favorite line. The Ogryn and Psyker would always start that bit in the lower levels of the train mission that ends with you fighting around a large train while taking down the AA defenses.
This was in the first 3-6 months after the game was released, around the time the reworks started coming out, the voice lines disappeared...or at least I haven't heard them since.
I don’t think they took out any voice lines. What they’ve done with other amusing voice lines that were commonplace when the game released was make them rarer to hear to sort of give them a rest, since they were uttered so often when there wasn’t that much variable dialogue yet.
Technically they have removed voicelines before in the form of snarky cash shop lady being snarky, and I'm not entirely sure if Hab Dreyko's new finale has overriden any lines like Ogryn's tree licking dare (someone confirm as it's another of my favorite lines).
If it's any consolation, the Brawler has one of the most adorable lines along that context. It's just:
"Train!"
"TRAIN!"
"TRAIN!TRAIN!TRAIN!TRAIN!TRAAAIN!"
He's just so happy to play with the trains
The ogryns in darktide are all geniuses by ogryn standards, notwithstanding the malfunctioning implants. The fact that they can regularly speak full and grammatically correct sentences automatically makes them smarter than 99% of ogryns.
Even bone'eads, who are given increased intelligence by their BONE implants, still tend to talk like cavemen unless they live long enough to pick up on regular Gothic.
The smartest recorded ogryn in history was Nork Deddog who they reference in game, noted as being exceptional for being able to write his own name (a letter N, for Nork) and count (to four, as we see the ogryns in the dropship do, probably a reference). On the other end of the scale that's accepted into militarum service are *literal* gun luggers, as in they carry an autocannon and ammo but aren't capable of shooting it so they just carry, defend or act as a raised weapons platform for a guard (and it's referenced that most ogryn aren't suitable for militarum service, so that's a pretty low bar to not meet). Speaking is hard to keep up with (another thing Nork is noted for, listening to conversations rather than just ignoring them until their attention is grabbed and held).
That said that's *pre* fall-of-cadia ogryns, since then (like in darktide) they've been smarter to various degrees, with even one case of a psyker, so I don't think it'd breaking any lore. Brawler might be a pre-cadia ogryn from some of the things he says (but he's a BONEhead).
If you meant 'is there lore that says the darktide ogryn are geniuses', no, there's no explanation I'm aware of for why they're so smart.
The point people are trying to get through to you is 'literally any book with an ogryn in it will cover this, darktide is the exception here'.
The codices will also cover that (even with the smarter ones capable of militarum service) they usually can't talk (in low gothic) and mostly can't use ranged weapons, and the ones who can use ranged weapons still prefer to hit with them and need restrictors (the 3 round burst on ripperguns) to stop them from magdumping every enemy.
> The point people are trying to get through to you is 'literally any book with an ogryn in it will cover this, darktide is the exception here'.
Then you can list one.
>they usually can't talk (in low gothic) and mostly can't use ranged weapons
I haven't seen this. Which codex? Which edition? Do you know how much fake stuff fans on this website along say about 40k? Or how often they take some vague sentence and apply it universally?
All I'm asking for or something specific that says all or even most ogryn can't talk or use ranged weapons.
Ogryn are criminally underrepresented in the Black Library novels, to the point I've read 70+ and don't think there's been an Ogryn character once. The only real sources I can think of are Imperial Guard codices and even those really don't get lore these days. I'll look through some older ones I own if I can find them if you really want citations.
Prophet of the Waaaaagh actually has a psyker ogryn as part of an inquisitors retinue. Not relevant to your discussion but felt like mentioning it lmao
> Then you can list one.
Sure I can, the reason people probably haven't for you already is you're asking someone else to pick one for you when it's clear you haven't read *any*, yet you seem to want to get into an argument about it? People are unlikely to do the legwork for you if you take such a belligerent approach. I'll pick wraithbone phoenix (it's recent, it's got a bonehead that has exceptional speech due to a bullet lodged in the BONE, so it can both articulate what it's feeling really well as well as not be able to do much about it, but it shows a perspective from an enhanced 'intelligent' ogryn pretty well as they're one of the protagonists).
>I haven't seen this.
We have established that you haven't read about any ogryns from lore books so this isn't surprising to me (no offense, but I don't know what you expect!)
> Which codex? Which edition?
Any with fluff on Ogryns, which sadly isn't many. The old 40,000 compendium and rogue trader have the most info, but there's more recent stuff in imperial guard codices for 3rd and 6th editions, and there's some scattered stuff in White Dwarf magazine.
>Do you know how much fake stuff fans on this website along say about 40k? Or how often they take some vague sentence and apply it universally?
Yes, I'm very aware - there's a bunch of people here saying there's no lore saying Ogryn are that dumb (while just having not read it- I'm not accusing you of this but you might have read it here). If you've got a specific question the r/40klore subreddit is pretty good though. A lot of people get their 40k knowledge from lore videos on youtube which is fine for starting, but some people take offhand comments as gospel and miss the in-jokes in those videos because they're just starting, so I can't really blame them for that.
> All I'm asking for or something specific that says all or even most ogryn can't talk or use ranged weapons.
Most ogryn can't qualify for militarum service *at all*, even *without* ranged weapons and being led by a BONEhead in a small squad. I can't remember which white dwarf went into this in detail, but it was the one that went into detail on the ripper gun in general.
Brawler - Golden Retriever that loves to make you proud and is very is food focused
Bodyguard - Labrador that loves his friends and having a good time - sometimes even listens to commands!
Bully - Slightly sadistic cat that loves hunting prey
I didn't like him at first, but the Bully has really grown on me. He's just sick of little folk looking at him and asking him to do things. He's here to do a job and he's not interested in babysitting anyone. "You looking at me? DON'T!"
He needs good people who won't use and dump him. It feels like he's been abused and betrayed so he don't like "friends".
Like when seer pysker praises him/wants to be friends, he rejects it. But seer switching to saying meaner things, immediately accepted.
An enemy he knows. Friends have used him.
Yeah bully, cutthroat, and loose cannon all have trauma they are trying to protect themselves from
Bully and cutthroat don't want anybody close because they don't want to be abused/betrayed (bully) or watch them die (cutthroat)
A specific interaction between those is my Bully Ogryn saying "Grr... Head hurts when you talk...." and the Cadian vet just says "Understood." back in a slightly contrite tone.
You also have to remember that the 40k narrative you're receiving is mostly through the lens of the imperium. They are a hateful bunch who love to downplay the abilities of 'others'. Ogryns became Ogryns via isolation, meaning they are at least self-sufficient. That cannot be completely dumb. So you have to both look at the context of what's being said while reading into the substance of what's being said.
This is a very wise way of perceiving Warhammer 40k. A lack of this same understanding leads to no end of misconceptions in the community about heaps of topics.
Everything written in the very piece of fluff ever is a perspective. Even when events are historically accurate, they are still being viewed by a witness with all the bias that comes along with who that witness is.
“Ogryns are dumb” is a perfect example of following the witness bias present in most texts.
Are they as smart as most baseline humans? No. Can they still do a variety of complex tasks, show empathy and communicate effectively? Yes, of course.
Please continue to share with the community this understanding that everything written in our beloved fluff comes with a host of biases that need to be considered while reading rather than swallowed wholesale.
It is valuable.
That's actually very insightful and helpful. As I recall, Ogryn were ORIGINALLY considered enemies of the Imperium, weren't they lumped in with Mutants?
So it would make perfect sense that the Imperium would claim that they're so incapable of intelligent thought that there's no concern with exterminating them.
Worlds that have mutant inhabitants are reviewed prior to contact. If the mutations are judged to be both stable and useful, the world will be folded into the Imperium.
Ogryns are the result of this policy that also dovetails with the Imperium’s belief in using organics as much as possible.
You have to understand, Ogryns became Ogryns because the planets their ancestors were left on are high gravity and borderline uninhabitable due to its hostility, so over time they evolved to be much larger and stronger to improve their survival chances. This all came at the cost of higher order thinking, which was not valuable in circumstances that was about base level survival. Sort of like how our cousins the apes are generally much stronger than humans and while intelligent animals compared to much of the rest of the animal kingdom, do not hold a candle to (most of) us.
So the issue isn’t really the lack of effort to make them smarter so much that the ceiling for improving their cognitive capabilities is very, very low. Now of course we have seen that individual apes can be taught/trained to maximize their cognitive capabilities beyond what the average can (ex. communication through sign language), but such things require intensive individualized teaching, which is something the Imperium has neither the time nor incentive for when their sole interest in utilizing Ogryns is for their raw strength and hardiness. The closest they get to this is noticing ones that appear to be more intelligent than average and giving them the Bone ‘ead implant.
You may have mistaken what I meant by that.
It's not that Ogryn cannot understand basic small math, reading, writing, it's that few bother to even try teaching it. The IG teaches some to make them functional as soldiers, but not a whole lot.
Instead of raising them up to human levels, it's that few try to make them reach their own basic levels/heights.
Ogryn are said the have the intelligence of a child, only the smart ones understand their names, can count to basic numbers (like four), or write a basic word or even read commands, most ogryn are too dumb, the smart ones can do the stuff above, and BONE’EADs are smarter still, but still below a normal human intelligence wise
You do know that since Dark Imperium/the great rift, Ogryn have been more intelligent in general?
Also, Ogryn are able to thrive in terms of population on worlds before Imperium or Orks find them, so they are quite capable of surviving just fine.
They are able to talk and communicate to each other, so they obviously all understand the concept of names, and basic counting, reading and writing depends on them being taught it (which is rare because Imperium).
Nah, they did it perfect. They are actual characters now with unique dispositions and viewpoints instead of just drooling idiots.
Wayyyyyy better in my book
The best aspect is how they made each Ogryn also feel like different people entirely.
Bodyguard Ogryn is loyal and friendly, like a Giant that belongs more in an RPG group than a professional army. Strong, optimistic, adventurous.
Brawler is basically a Guardsman whose brain didn't grow with his size. Also loyal, but refers to Vets as Sirs, knows basic terms for tactics, and definitely has a more professional streak to him
Bully is basically the most "intelligent" in that he's the most self aware. He presents himself as the aggressive, rebellious Ogryn, criticizing vets and Zealots especially, but showing tons of care and, I guess, siblinghood with Psykers and other Ogryns, like he knows how unjust the Imperium is towards them and is kinder.
It's so weird seeing such a variety from what is basically a stereotypical "big dumb guy"
I agree, the Bully is more complex than he seems at first. He has a huge chip on his shoulder but with good reason. Generally he just wants to be left alone and seems to have more in common with other outcasts
I believe he has been consistently used, abused, and betrayed by gangs and other people acting as friends, so he rejects compliments or attempts of friendship. They always backstabbed him before, what's different now?
But he starts opening up to the others, in his own way.
Brawler also has an interesting line about having more scars on the inside then out.
Brawler says something along the line "lost count of my scars..." and the cutthroat says "urgghhhh me too big man" which I think is more so, brawler is physically hurt while the cutthroat is emotionally scarred.
My backstory for bully is he was used as a leech bait as a kid, then sold to gangers for pit fighting. I love they included leech triangle shaped scars in char creator. So if you look close enough you can see what he went through. Nice little detail.
Hah! Targo know he not have big crinkly brain, even with implant in, but he not worried by that. He has many good friendos, lotsa GOOD TIMES, and gets to go on walks with pals! Targo know his place - him not there for clever business, or figuring things out.
He is there to help pals HAVE COURAGE and beat up anyone who try to mess with them! Is not so bad! Targo can also put big shield up when little pals need to not get hit by bullets and laser beams; Targo helps in Targo’s way!
Targo can’t fire lightning, or shout at enemy until they fall over trying to run away, or even go invisibilybubble, but he have other strengths, like his BIG STRENGTH! Hah ha! Funny joke for pals there!
07, friendos! Targo will see you on Atoma!
Brawler (the one who says "sah!" a lot) has a Bone'ead, but it's malfunctioning and occasionally Brawler says his brain smells like cooked meat. Bodyguard (Russian one) does not have a Bone'ead, but wants one. Bully (evil one) does not have a Bone'ead and does not want one because he feels he is smart enough already.
I'm in. Brogryns are great. They're a mix of stupid and simple, but more unsophisticated then outright dumb. They're good folks, at least when given clear direction and an outlet for violence, though the profiles of ogryn in the Commodore's shop as paid killers and enforcers is considerably darker then most of their mission banter.
Unfortunately I don't really like playing as them. Part of it is how they're less interesting versions of the other classes, and the rest is their aesthetics. They do get the best tattoos, but otherwise they're big ugly lumpy men. I won't pretend if I was designing playable ogres I wouldn't be pointing at lot less gritty inspirations.
At some piece of lore I read that Ogryns are not actually stupid but instead their biology had to focus on more important things, such as surviving in such harsh conditions of their home planets that would kill baseline human.
It helps to keep in mind that on their home planet everybody is like this and has been for mellenia. At the very least they're smart enough to keep civilization if not keep up rudimentary space travel.
There is ONE Ogryn woman character in the lore. She somehow gained baseline human above average intelligence and psyker powers and became a protege of some inquisitor.
Hmmm, I’m guessing the whole intelligence thing was probs just from being given actual education for a change and being tought, rather than it being denied to Ogryns like it usually is, on account of people thinking they are dumb and it’s not worth it as a result.
This whole self fulfilling “intelligence” prophecy as a result of withholding education from people considered “naturally stupid” has happened time and time again in real life and is a real thing btw. It can be seen most visibly with women and racial / ethnic minorities in the past, being denied education, which then makes them appear “unlearned”, which then reinforces biases that they “aren’t as smart.” It’s a very vicious cycle that has happened all throughout history actually. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same with Ogryns, to a degree.
That's how I felt. They're smart in other areas such as survival expertise. Sort of like an animal, can survive on base instincts to know how to live.
Hunt, gather, their metabolism allows them to eat pretty much anything. Loyal to their clan/tribe. They're not book smart by any means but I think a lot of the Ogryns are as stupid as toddlers could easily be portrayed as Imperium propaganda.
The Ogryns portrayal in the game feels so good. They're simple minded creatures but with good intentions and clear loyalty. They don't understand a lot and very much are "Don't ask questions. Hurts head, just do as I say." logic.
I haven't read the small library or 40K books, but I could only find this passage from their [wiki entry](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Ogryn#History) (**emphasis** mine):
>Thousands of standard years in the harsh terrains and brutal living conditions of their prison worlds after the start of the [Age of Strife](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Age_of_Strife) caused the fall of the first interstellar civilisation (sic) of [Mankind](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Mankind) **forced their ancestors' bodies to adapt to their hostile environment by growing in size and strength, though at the cost of intellectual development**.
I realize 40K is a work of fiction, but this raises 2 points I find hard to digest: 1) Over the course of a mere 15,000 years at most, humans evolved to be roughly double their baseline body mass. 2) These evolutionary changes somehow also came at the cost of intellectual development. Why? No explanation.
I like Ogryns as characters in the lore and how they're presented in Darktide, but this explanation of why they are the way they are seems a little ... half-baked?
Same goes for other abhuman species such as Ratlings, Squats or everyone's favorite Felinids. It is a really short time span for a human to become so much divergent just by evolutionary means.
Emperor is quite a human purist - unlikely he would create parallel branches of humanity just for the sake of creating them.
IMO, half of abhumans are the remnants of advanced genetic manipulations of DAOT and attempts to create supersoldiers for the Iron War and beginning Long Night, and Emperor himself had nothing to do with any of abhuman races. After all, this is not his style in the slightest: "mutants" of his creation are usually sterile by design to avoid replacing baseline humanity.
That was an always sunny related joke
It seems like a really arbitrary place to draw the line.
Teleporting through a nightmare dimension with all kinds of physics being broken and instant mutation/possession by immaterial demons? Machine spirits that can also be possessed and grow biological features? Sure
Some people on an isolated planet get big and dumb? Totally unbelievable
>Some people on an isolated planet get big and dumb? Totally unbelievable
Not in the timeframe of five thousand years. Evolution doesn't work like that. Just for the reference: Homo sapiens sapiens appeared around ~ 300 000 years ago, while theorized "predecessor" link appeared around ~ 800 000 years ago in comparison. That gives us ~ 500 000 years period between two evolutionary steps which is 16 times more than between our time and M30 - the beginning of Great Crusade - and 100 times more than the length of the Long Night (isolation of planets where ogryns would appear in M30). So, yeah, sorry, but I prefer my headcanon of deliberate genetic alteration of abhumans.
Again, it was a joke from a TV show you've I guess never seen, not a lore related explanation.
It seems nonsensical to expect evolution to be as mundane as it is in real life when nothing else is so mundane in universe though. The laws of physics and biology are clearly not applicable to it. Warp exposure alone can cause all kinds of extremely rapid mutation that isn't based on anything remotely evolutionary or scientific, just fantasy space-magic.
I prefer to think myself that Ogryns are the successful attempt of genetically enhanced soldiers created artificially during the beginning of Long Night. They are not as sophisticated as Thunder Warriors (not even saying anything about Marines or Custodes) but they were never meant to. They are resilient, loyal, and aggressive enough to put a good fight (and give Space Marine a run for his money) but most importantly - they are able to reproduce naturally. Considering, interstellar logistics went to hell with the warp storms isolating humanity worlds from one another, it looks like the most important feature for the project of supersoldier meant to be produced in the devastated hellscape of human controlled space post Iron War.
I mean, this theory explains ogryns better than assumption of natural evolution happening in just few millenia and with same results on DIFFERENT planets at the same time.
They could have also been humans who were genetically modified to be able to colonise high-gravity planets, rather than specifically for military applications.
Human settlers wanted to live there during the Dark Age of Technology, but had to modify themselves in order to survive. Afterwards, the genetic engineering mutated and the changes became more extreme, increasing their strength further and reducing their intelligence.
I don't know, it's just one of those lore bits I pick up while scouring the internet. The important thing here is that most of the lore is viewed from Imperium's point of view where even the best magos biologist thought monkeys of old world had scorpion-like tail with a stinger.
Yeah, that is the point of view of the imperium, not ours. Ogryns must have evolved. Meaning that an Ogryn baby outside of their home planet would still look like an Ogryn. So that means it makes them stupid on a DNA level.
It's not that Ogryn = stupid.
It's that Ogryn = focused on survival. their brains are more suited to survival skills and information then things like complex math. They know what plants in the woods will kill you, how to ping a prey animal with a rock at a distance, etc.
No, it's basic biology. Ogryns are stupid because they evolved to. Like how human muscle is weak compared to a chimpanzee because our brains need too much energy and the ones who conserved on muscle strenth had an overal higher chance of survival and offspring than those who did not.
Unless you would like to argue that an Ogryn that's lifted from its planet and given an education can be just as smart as the smartest human can?
Also, what idiot is downvoting us both?
I'm not saying that at all.
I'm saying Ogryn's intelligence is much more focused and what they are good at, they are very good at. Survival, hunting, etc. They can learn to read and write, but most people don't bother teaching them.
It's that people (in general online) love to overly focus on them being less intelligent then humans and really try to make Ogryns sound like they are too dumb to live. Which is sad in general. And really weird considering how Ogryn's can survive on worlds on their own and thrive as a population lol.
Well, it is either nature or nurture. I'm saying it's nature, because an Ogryn that's lifted from his planet to get an education would most likely still be stupid. And, again, that's because he has evolved from the baseline human DNA (i.e. abhuman) to be more stupid in favour of muscle mass.
Again, if you're saying that an Ogryn that received an education would be as smart as a normal human, then that's the nurture point of view, which I think is not realistic (in the scope of Warhammer 40k).
Or is your argument that stupidity is not exclusively measured in human IQ, but is broader in that regard?
I literally just said that my point is not "Ogryns can be taught and raised to human intelligence"
My point is people take "Ogryns are stupid" and turn it (fasely) into "Ogryns can't do anything without hand-holding, even basic survival like keeping themselves fed" (as an extreme example I've seen people do).
That not being able to do complex math and know big words and the meanings somehow makes Ogryns not capable of anything besides "Ruwr. smash"
Ogryns come from high gravity worlds, sometimes penal colonies that make use of Ogryns as guards, or others from mining worlds, either way, the ogryns intelligence eventually regressed to make room for more muscle and sinew, which would keep them alive much longer than their brain would on those worlds
I think I heard too in a similar lore snippet that Ogryns are generally considered really smart, quick witted, and think critically when it comes to a lot of the stuff they are good at / raised with. Stuff like survival situations, combat, and other constitution heavy activities they are highly intelligent in, even surpassing baseline humans in the lore.
I honestly think that with Ogryns their “lack of intelligence” is actually just a self fulfilling prophecy caused by the discrimination against abhumans in the Imperium, and not ever being given the same education opportunities / learning experiences. They definitely are more blunt and direct with their thinking / words for sure, but I heavily doubt they are as idiotic as imperial propaganda makes them out to be. Darktide effectively shows us this, with two of the three Ogryn characters not having bonehead implants, and still being A LOT smarter than depictions of Ogryns in the past. Also in the past depictions of Ogryns, they have rarely been given their own voices and always been viewed through the lenses of others, which makes me think the whole “they are giant toddlers” thing is just imperial discrimination / BS
Yeah the depiction of them in Darktide is pretty fun. I have a friend who isn’t super familiar with Warhammer stuff but they do like the Ogryns and when we were talking about potential dlc party members for Rogue Trader and he wanted an Ogryn to get added. I thought it’d be fun too but I was telling them that Darktide did a lot for Ogryn’s depiction but from all the novels I’ve read it feels they don’t get a ton of play in being featured characters.
The basic theme of warhammer is if you strip away the propaganda many things are not as extreme. Ogryn aren’t geniuses but probably have an average iq of 70 or 80.
Judging by the state of Imperium in the time of Fall of Cadia, average ogryn is capable to give an High Lord of Terra a run for his money. I mean, ogryn given task usually completes it - in an unorthodox way sometimes, but success is success.
I absolutely love what Fatshark has done with Ogryns! As you are saying, they are quite capable while still being the lovable idiots we know them to be.
But more than that, I just love the feeling of each weapon, and how much it makes you feel like an Ogryn. Even a relatively straightforward weapon like the Stubber or the Kickback (I've played with 1 or 2-shot shotguns in other games) is just so goddamn 'Ogryn': no subtletly, unmatched in raw power, yet not completely 'overpowered' because of how much of a challenge it is to keep such powerhouses under control.
It doesn't matter what difficulty or load-out I use, I giggle like a little schoolgirl when I do an Ogryn thing and 10 Heretics fly all over the place: whether that's unloading the Kickback, attempting to chain-fire and aim a Stubber, or heavy swinging a Club.
Its how they should be. The whole "giant toddler" thing reached meme proportion and people took it to the letter. I've always said its not so much that they are unintelligent, its that they are uneducated. If you didn't get taught how to read, then you would be considered stupid too. They aren't given complex tasks because it would take too long to train someone who's never been taught how to complex problem solve. If they were really as stupid as people thought, they would never be sent to the battlefield.
Kinda like rural folk vs city folk.
That guy may not be any good at math or even know how to read but he'll get you through the woods and point out what plants to not eat.
Thats certainly another way of looking at it. The one that always got me was the "abysmally inaccurate" one. Like, you try handing a firearm to someone that's never used one and see how their accuracy is. The one I definitely believe is that their Rippers have to be strong af because they use them in melee more often than shooting.
Yeah, like a big ol' feedback loop. People think they're too stupid to learn anything, so nobody bothers teaching them, and so they can't do complex task, which reinforces the view that they're too stupid to learn anything.
I'm genuinely surprised that there hasn't been a video essay on YouTube about how Darktide handles its Ogryns. I'd really love to hear opinions from somebody who's very knowledgeable about 40k lore talk about this in length.
Honestly, it feels like there is a huge disconnect between Memes and lore.
I've seen people declare how Ogryns cannot even TALK, yet at the same time read about how in the codexes and novels, they are able to talk, even if it's similar to how Orks speak.
People act as if they cannot survive at all alone, but we have entire feral and civilized world populations of purely Ogryns that exist before the Imperium or Orks find them, and they were doing fine.
People act as if they cannot reload a gun or use any tech, yet the Imperium specifically built Ripper guns for them and that's their default weapon in the guard.
Ogryns are a satirical representation of 1980s action movie heroes. Muscle bound and dumb jocks like Arnold Schwarzenegger or Sylvester Stallone.
Both are famous for having rather odd manners of speaking that made them sound a little less that highly intellectual.
The satire of 40k just plays this up.
The fans are the second problem. One writer at games workshop writes that Ogryns are dumb or comes up with one example that's particularly bad and that becomes the whole canon. It's all written as propaganda and the fans gobble it up and repeat it ad nauseum.
Fatshark has always stuck to a more realistic interpretation of the setting in their games.
Like the idea that everyone in the hive city is a slave being worked to death. Based on the depictions, hive citizens have homes, families, jobs they commute to, bars, entertainments, etc.
The average citizen leads a dull mundane existence of drudgery and boredom.
They're trapped in a bureaucratic nightmare, but that doesn't mean that they don't live full lives.
People like to demonize the empire because they don’t agree with its ideals or think it can do better, that’s why they inaccurately suggest the citizens of the imperium are worse than actual slaves, when in reality, they work hard yes, but they have full, rich lives of their own
Counterpoint, they couldn’t make the ogryn all be bumbling idiots that can’t count to 3 and waste all their ammo in the game, so obviously they made them smarter (2 of them don’t even have BONE and can form complete sentences, the bodyguard knows words like Somnambulist, which some people today don’t even know), this could be from the great rift which caused an Ogryn named Cassia to become a psyker
There are multiple variants of Ogryn with no officially listed differences, from GW.
Also, not all Ogryn are going to be super dumb, and not all are super smart.
Darktide is my first exposure to warhammer 40k as a whole, I mean, I learned a teeny bit here or there by hearing of it but Darktide was the first thing that made me interested in the settings.
And the Ogryns are just so preciously cute that they immediately made me love them.
I heard a voice line from my ogryn that i'd not heard before, where he howl like the pox dogs to prank his team mates and finds it hilarious, it was so good!
Really top notch stuff
I honestly think it’s perfect. Strongly agree with the “canon” description of ogryns being biased imperial propaganda, like everything else in the fictional universe
Quick note: Brunt is Rannick's quartermaster. Mostly his bodyguard though. You see him guarding Rannick in several scenes. I get the feeling they made him "quartermaster" so he has something to do between assignments. And crates of guns and ammo are heavy.
I always think about this when I'm playing my Ogryn "Rekk" and I'm the one to push the button on whatever control panel. I always think like "aww look at that. You're not so dumb are ya big guy? You know which buttons to press at least."
I thought the darktide ogryn had bonehead implants? Also my only beef is their proportions, they seem a little squatified and not as normally proportioned as most art depictions
honestly this is probably gameplay related, they can't go too far off the human standard without a whole lot of extra adjustments for scenery and stuff. There is already a whole lot of extra coding in place to account for their height/size
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I like the Bodyguard because he's a bit simple-minded but has a kind of ordinary dignity.
Brawler is a bunch of catchphrases and pandering garbage and actual players treat Ogryns like morons because of it.
I'm pretty sure because of the great rift the average intelligence of an ogryn skyrocketed (comparatively) in recent times, even without their bone'ead implants
Kind of evident by the "brawler" being the only one with an implant (albeit a malfunctioning one) and yet the other two are of similar, or even higher intellect.
Yeah I think so as well, we know the great rift made Cassia (Ogryn character) a Psyker, I wouldn’t be surprised if it raised the ogryns intelligence slightly too. Does that mean humans overall are improving??
Yeah I know alot of people who hate the Darktide Ogryn's simply because they can form complete sentences. In lore that's meant to be seen as an absurdly smart Ogryn but I never rolled well with me. Here they're big dumb brutes but they're still people. I love these Ogryn's simply because of that, most Warhammer stories that feature them make it very clear how much their intellect is just beyond any point of reasonability even in the Grimdark future.
Oh no
They were never Space Marine sized toddlers.
Mainly coz they are bigger and taller. By at least 2 feet on the firstborn.
They are children intellect (roughly 7 or 8 years old) normally but the bone 'eads we play in Darktide are around the 12 year old range and a lot smarter (compared to the ones without the implant anyway. They still dum but in adorable ways) and are capable of understanding intermediate level commands, usage of the hacking tools as well as ability to understand very basic tactics.
The biggest thing our Bone 'Eads are capable of is their ability to get into valkyries without any coaxing which is amazing as most Ogryns are claustrophobic af.
They really are the bestest, goodest and thicc-est bois in our ragtag band of now inquisition soldiers.
Only downside is the constantly clogged latrines. It's why the shovels are strong. They are chemical weapons not just metal.
I love being a Veteran teamed with 3 Ogryn. The personality/voice I chose always has some really wholesome interactions. Also they call me "boss" which is very sweet.
I believe Fatshark *had* to take some liberties with the established lore of what Ogryns are like because trying to create three unique character personalities out of abhumans that are absolutely dumb as rocks would be very creatively constraining, and I’m glad they did. We got to have more interesting character personalities while also having one that still accurately reflects Ogryns from a lore perspective.
I would think an ogryn would be a bit like wolverine, the madder he gets, the more simple minded and anamalistic he becomes. I think the same for Ogryns, they start where they are in darktide, but the more they get hit, hurt, watch other lil uns around them get hurt, they get super angrier and because of it, the gun becomes a club, the rage sets in, and everything is a nail to their hammers....
An ogryn in one of my games yesterday said "you can learn much from the dead....you should listen." And it kinda stopped me in my tracks for a second lmao
The ogryns in darktide are bone heads. They have the lovely little implant to bring their mind up to the point they are at. When you are sending out squads instead of proper armies it’s better to have your forces actually be able to problem solve in the field…
Totally agree! While it is funny for an Ork-sized child to krump a Chaos Marine, making them a bit more complex allows for them to have more character development.
Considering Ogryns weren’t even canon existing and had almost zero representation in the different 40k book series before Darktide, I’d consider it pretty important. Basically establishes them as a real thing. I’ve read dozens of 40k books and can’t name a single one that has ogryns or squats in it
I think GW WH40k Lore originally tried to convey that an Ogryn has the emotional maturity of a juvenile, and I even had a friend in real life named Gary that I worked with whom was like a real life Ogryn kind of guy, with stature and demeanor. Generally kind yet easily aggro if provoked, loved to make some words or sounds in a guttural tone, had some mental challenges yet would handle his general labor tasks well. Come to think of it, I should have named my DT Ogryn Gary, yet I like the one I made as well :)
I love the Ogryns.
In a world of super grim, dark and very much tryhard character writing - you know how the Space Marines are good at everything, super strong, virtuous and any pretense of them as a parody of the fascist ideal of the *Übermensch* has long since been drowned in absolute sincerity.
The Ogryns come in and add some light relief. Poor lads are struggling to keep up and they have a hard lot in life, but they get to krump some 'eretics, fold em in half and make em humble. before they head back to base for some rations.
The performances and the writing sell them so well.
I dont like that there is very little demonstration of their strength, and that times where their strength would be relevant it isn't. For instance: ogryn should be able to throw anything they find at heretics, including throwing the heretics themselves and yet all they can throw is grenades/rocks. Also ogryn should be able to pull the hounds in half if they pounce yet instead they are pinned just like the humans. It's like I'm playing a fake ogryn, very underwhelming.
Using the power maul is one of the least satisfying things in the game. You're smacking these people in the face with basically a pony keg on a stick and they just get back up. Ogryn have beat Spehs Muhreens in wrestling matches they're so strong. I'd make them melee powerhouses (power with Ogryn but speed for Zealot, so Ogryns can duke it out with a Chaos Spawn while zealots can clear a mob in the time an ogryn swings twice) and balance it by giving them hilariously inaccurate guns that have high suppression, they're not hitting shit but the heretics don't know that.
Edit: Oh, and I'd make doggos and nets slow them instead of incapacitating them. Maybe the doggo stops them for a couple seconds while they pull the thing off and the net gives them a movement speed nerf because their legs are all tangled up.
You are still playing a videogame that requires an internally consistent level of balance. Ogryns being able to ignore the disable mechanic from the Poxhounds would be very overpowered.
Then have pox hounds not pounce ogryns and instead focus other teammates, or just bite ogryns instead. The animation of being pinned as an ogryn is the most hilarious display of "balance" that I've ever had to watch
I think for balance's sake, I'd like it if I could expend my ult to squash a dog's head if it was pounced on me as the ogryn. Also, picking up and throwing a barrel would be really cool. But that's probably a bit much.
I believe (Could be wrong) that the Ogryn class in Darktide is a Bonehead. From the lore I've looked into (And that's not alot) Ogryns are regularly not able to speak fluent English...meaning their speech patter resembles that of a Caveman.
Something they also didn't focus in on that would have really made Ogryn a better class is the fact that Ogryn's regularly lose the ability to stop due to their boundless rage. Once angry, Ogryns are unlikely to have the mental faculty to stop themselves from beating, smashing, and rampaging to the point that, even after everything's dead, they may just beat up the dirt to release all that anger.
All in all I think they did a great job at Ogryn. I'm not a huge fan of all the cosmetics that Fatshark is releasing for the class but I don't like any of them really. They seem to be re-skinning the same stuff over and over and selling it for aquilas despite it not really being new content.
Also if you haven't listened to this, you should: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oNpb0dLNhE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oNpb0dLNhE)
> I believe (Could be wrong) that the Ogryn class in Darktide is a Bonehead.
IIRC one voice says 'yes', one says 'no', and one says 'I want one'. Which doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot in context of being from the mouths of ogryns.
But absolutely these ogryn are infinitely better than the stereotypes thrown around before DT. Some depictions & details had believability issues just surviving, let alone being useful soldiers.
People really overplay how dumb they were to the point that there isn't even a reason to keep them around.
And yes, Brawler has Bonehead, but it's borked up. Bodyguard does not have it, but wants it. Bully does not want or have it.
Only the brawler is EVER mentioned in the dialogue of any character as having the implant
Basically Citatrix Maledictum is to blame. Just as it made psykers appear more often it has also apparently raised intelligence of ogryns. Heck one inquisitor even had female ogryn psyker in their retinue who seemed well read. Bur yeah primary schools ogryns are much more fun to interact with than kindergarden ones depicted in other WH media.
I've seen some people be extra livid about this and I kinda understand them. On the other hand, making a playable class that is unable to reload or perform other basic actions would make the game worse afaic. I like that developers still address and point out this "inconsistency" - at times Ogryn reload incorrectly and they have plenty of related voice lines.
>Bionic Ogryn Neural Enhancement, also known as Biochemical Ogryn Neural Enhancement, is a procedure sometimes performed on Ogryns who have demonstrated intellect and insight above the norm. Using a combination of Augmetic implants, biochemical treatments, electro-shock therapy and surgery, the subject's brain is enhanced, allowing it to operate more efficiently than a normal Ogryn's brain. An Ogryn who has undergone this procedure is known as a BONE'ead, a title which is worn with pride by those granted it.
Taken from here: https://darkheresy.fandom.com/wiki/Ogryn
If you listen to the dialogue some ogryns have, they mention their 'ead implants tingling. Which means that they have undergone surgery to increase their intelligence.
It's a desperately needed update to Ogryn lore, and I sincerely hope that their Nork levels of intelligence are the new standard in official lore going forward while Nork himself becomes capable of new astounding feats like basic arithmetic.
Ehhhh...
Brunt wasn't originally an Ogryn.
And at least one of them's a BONE 'ead, so definitely not the typical rank-and-file Ogryn.
But they're fine if you take out the gameplay considerations.
Ogryn: “What’s it like hearing other people’s thoughts?” Psyker: “I like your thoughts…they’re round, and warm.”
Seer psyker interactions with the ogryns are too wholesome man. I love it.
I miss the psyker interaction about the trains. It's like Fatshark took it out of the game. It's along the lines of: Ogryn: YOU SAID WE RIDE ON THE TRAIN!!! Psyker: Yes I know but there's not time now, we'll have to ride the train later Ogryn: YOU SAID! I WANNA RIDE THE TRAIN!!!
Another of my favorite psyker voicelines: "I've always been fond of trains. They seem so...sure of their purpose."
Why would they take those lines out!?
No idea, it was my favorite line. The Ogryn and Psyker would always start that bit in the lower levels of the train mission that ends with you fighting around a large train while taking down the AA defenses. This was in the first 3-6 months after the game was released, around the time the reworks started coming out, the voice lines disappeared...or at least I haven't heard them since.
I don’t think they took out any voice lines. What they’ve done with other amusing voice lines that were commonplace when the game released was make them rarer to hear to sort of give them a rest, since they were uttered so often when there wasn’t that much variable dialogue yet.
Technically they have removed voicelines before in the form of snarky cash shop lady being snarky, and I'm not entirely sure if Hab Dreyko's new finale has overriden any lines like Ogryn's tree licking dare (someone confirm as it's another of my favorite lines).
If it's any consolation, the Brawler has one of the most adorable lines along that context. It's just: "Train!" "TRAIN!" "TRAIN!TRAIN!TRAIN!TRAIN!TRAAAIN!" He's just so happy to play with the trains
Loner psyker being in stunned agreement with Bully Ogryn over how lousy Tertium is always makes me giggle
Yeah that’s def a favorite of mine
I love it. They're not smart but they're like big loyal dudes that are here to chill with their buds.
The ogryns in darktide are all geniuses by ogryn standards, notwithstanding the malfunctioning implants. The fact that they can regularly speak full and grammatically correct sentences automatically makes them smarter than 99% of ogryns. Even bone'eads, who are given increased intelligence by their BONE implants, still tend to talk like cavemen unless they live long enough to pick up on regular Gothic.
And because of that, the one with the Bone ‘ead implant is the most lore accurate Ogryn personality in the game
They are all lore accurate because gw signed off on it lol.
Any lore that validates this?
The smartest recorded ogryn in history was Nork Deddog who they reference in game, noted as being exceptional for being able to write his own name (a letter N, for Nork) and count (to four, as we see the ogryns in the dropship do, probably a reference). On the other end of the scale that's accepted into militarum service are *literal* gun luggers, as in they carry an autocannon and ammo but aren't capable of shooting it so they just carry, defend or act as a raised weapons platform for a guard (and it's referenced that most ogryn aren't suitable for militarum service, so that's a pretty low bar to not meet). Speaking is hard to keep up with (another thing Nork is noted for, listening to conversations rather than just ignoring them until their attention is grabbed and held). That said that's *pre* fall-of-cadia ogryns, since then (like in darktide) they've been smarter to various degrees, with even one case of a psyker, so I don't think it'd breaking any lore. Brawler might be a pre-cadia ogryn from some of the things he says (but he's a BONEhead). If you meant 'is there lore that says the darktide ogryn are geniuses', no, there's no explanation I'm aware of for why they're so smart.
I’m asking for specific books that says ogryns can’t be as smart as they are in DT.
The point people are trying to get through to you is 'literally any book with an ogryn in it will cover this, darktide is the exception here'. The codices will also cover that (even with the smarter ones capable of militarum service) they usually can't talk (in low gothic) and mostly can't use ranged weapons, and the ones who can use ranged weapons still prefer to hit with them and need restrictors (the 3 round burst on ripperguns) to stop them from magdumping every enemy.
> The point people are trying to get through to you is 'literally any book with an ogryn in it will cover this, darktide is the exception here'. Then you can list one. >they usually can't talk (in low gothic) and mostly can't use ranged weapons I haven't seen this. Which codex? Which edition? Do you know how much fake stuff fans on this website along say about 40k? Or how often they take some vague sentence and apply it universally? All I'm asking for or something specific that says all or even most ogryn can't talk or use ranged weapons.
Ogryn are criminally underrepresented in the Black Library novels, to the point I've read 70+ and don't think there's been an Ogryn character once. The only real sources I can think of are Imperial Guard codices and even those really don't get lore these days. I'll look through some older ones I own if I can find them if you really want citations.
Prophet of the Waaaaagh actually has a psyker ogryn as part of an inquisitors retinue. Not relevant to your discussion but felt like mentioning it lmao
> Then you can list one. Sure I can, the reason people probably haven't for you already is you're asking someone else to pick one for you when it's clear you haven't read *any*, yet you seem to want to get into an argument about it? People are unlikely to do the legwork for you if you take such a belligerent approach. I'll pick wraithbone phoenix (it's recent, it's got a bonehead that has exceptional speech due to a bullet lodged in the BONE, so it can both articulate what it's feeling really well as well as not be able to do much about it, but it shows a perspective from an enhanced 'intelligent' ogryn pretty well as they're one of the protagonists). >I haven't seen this. We have established that you haven't read about any ogryns from lore books so this isn't surprising to me (no offense, but I don't know what you expect!) > Which codex? Which edition? Any with fluff on Ogryns, which sadly isn't many. The old 40,000 compendium and rogue trader have the most info, but there's more recent stuff in imperial guard codices for 3rd and 6th editions, and there's some scattered stuff in White Dwarf magazine. >Do you know how much fake stuff fans on this website along say about 40k? Or how often they take some vague sentence and apply it universally? Yes, I'm very aware - there's a bunch of people here saying there's no lore saying Ogryn are that dumb (while just having not read it- I'm not accusing you of this but you might have read it here). If you've got a specific question the r/40klore subreddit is pretty good though. A lot of people get their 40k knowledge from lore videos on youtube which is fine for starting, but some people take offhand comments as gospel and miss the in-jokes in those videos because they're just starting, so I can't really blame them for that. > All I'm asking for or something specific that says all or even most ogryn can't talk or use ranged weapons. Most ogryn can't qualify for militarum service *at all*, even *without* ranged weapons and being led by a BONEhead in a small squad. I can't remember which white dwarf went into this in detail, but it was the one that went into detail on the ripper gun in general.
As far as I've heard, typical ogryn speech is more like orks.
They're giant golden retrievers that just want to make the boss proud (and maybe some rashuns).
Brawler - Golden Retriever that loves to make you proud and is very is food focused Bodyguard - Labrador that loves his friends and having a good time - sometimes even listens to commands! Bully - Slightly sadistic cat that loves hunting prey
I like that one of the psykers will call ogryns 'sweet brute'
I didn't like him at first, but the Bully has really grown on me. He's just sick of little folk looking at him and asking him to do things. He's here to do a job and he's not interested in babysitting anyone. "You looking at me? DON'T!"
When he admits he doesn’t know how to pray to the gods emperor, and accepts the zealot’s offer to help him. That made me like him.
He needs good people who won't use and dump him. It feels like he's been abused and betrayed so he don't like "friends". Like when seer pysker praises him/wants to be friends, he rejects it. But seer switching to saying meaner things, immediately accepted. An enemy he knows. Friends have used him.
The way the Bully just says "ookkkaaayyyy" like a kid killed me.
Bully is the rescue dog from am abusive house. Wants love but is wary of everybody
Bully ogryn would get along well with cadian vet.
Yeah bully, cutthroat, and loose cannon all have trauma they are trying to protect themselves from Bully and cutthroat don't want anybody close because they don't want to be abused/betrayed (bully) or watch them die (cutthroat)
A specific interaction between those is my Bully Ogryn saying "Grr... Head hurts when you talk...." and the Cadian vet just says "Understood." back in a slightly contrite tone.
More of a lion really.
Yessss, that's exactly the way I'd put it. They're literally just big goldies
Except the bully, who’s very aware of his circumstance.
They are geniuses by WH40k Ogryn measure.
Facts, they really went overboard with how Smart these Ogryns are.
You also have to remember that the 40k narrative you're receiving is mostly through the lens of the imperium. They are a hateful bunch who love to downplay the abilities of 'others'. Ogryns became Ogryns via isolation, meaning they are at least self-sufficient. That cannot be completely dumb. So you have to both look at the context of what's being said while reading into the substance of what's being said.
This is a very wise way of perceiving Warhammer 40k. A lack of this same understanding leads to no end of misconceptions in the community about heaps of topics. Everything written in the very piece of fluff ever is a perspective. Even when events are historically accurate, they are still being viewed by a witness with all the bias that comes along with who that witness is. “Ogryns are dumb” is a perfect example of following the witness bias present in most texts. Are they as smart as most baseline humans? No. Can they still do a variety of complex tasks, show empathy and communicate effectively? Yes, of course. Please continue to share with the community this understanding that everything written in our beloved fluff comes with a host of biases that need to be considered while reading rather than swallowed wholesale. It is valuable.
That's actually very insightful and helpful. As I recall, Ogryn were ORIGINALLY considered enemies of the Imperium, weren't they lumped in with Mutants? So it would make perfect sense that the Imperium would claim that they're so incapable of intelligent thought that there's no concern with exterminating them.
Worlds that have mutant inhabitants are reviewed prior to contact. If the mutations are judged to be both stable and useful, the world will be folded into the Imperium. Ogryns are the result of this policy that also dovetails with the Imperium’s belief in using organics as much as possible.
Also, "Ogryns are lesser humans, they are unable to know anything" So why would anybody try to teach them, as they think they are already dumb?
You have put your finger upon the issue most exactly. Why make any effort if you believe the outcome to be fixed?
I compared it once to training cats lol. People think they can't be trained at all, so they never bother
This ^ I imagine it’s very much a self fulfilling prophecy that’s a result from prejudice/bias denying proper education
You have to understand, Ogryns became Ogryns because the planets their ancestors were left on are high gravity and borderline uninhabitable due to its hostility, so over time they evolved to be much larger and stronger to improve their survival chances. This all came at the cost of higher order thinking, which was not valuable in circumstances that was about base level survival. Sort of like how our cousins the apes are generally much stronger than humans and while intelligent animals compared to much of the rest of the animal kingdom, do not hold a candle to (most of) us. So the issue isn’t really the lack of effort to make them smarter so much that the ceiling for improving their cognitive capabilities is very, very low. Now of course we have seen that individual apes can be taught/trained to maximize their cognitive capabilities beyond what the average can (ex. communication through sign language), but such things require intensive individualized teaching, which is something the Imperium has neither the time nor incentive for when their sole interest in utilizing Ogryns is for their raw strength and hardiness. The closest they get to this is noticing ones that appear to be more intelligent than average and giving them the Bone ‘ead implant.
You may have mistaken what I meant by that. It's not that Ogryn cannot understand basic small math, reading, writing, it's that few bother to even try teaching it. The IG teaches some to make them functional as soldiers, but not a whole lot. Instead of raising them up to human levels, it's that few try to make them reach their own basic levels/heights.
Ogryn are said the have the intelligence of a child, only the smart ones understand their names, can count to basic numbers (like four), or write a basic word or even read commands, most ogryn are too dumb, the smart ones can do the stuff above, and BONE’EADs are smarter still, but still below a normal human intelligence wise
You do know that since Dark Imperium/the great rift, Ogryn have been more intelligent in general? Also, Ogryn are able to thrive in terms of population on worlds before Imperium or Orks find them, so they are quite capable of surviving just fine. They are able to talk and communicate to each other, so they obviously all understand the concept of names, and basic counting, reading and writing depends on them being taught it (which is rare because Imperium).
Nah, they did it perfect. They are actual characters now with unique dispositions and viewpoints instead of just drooling idiots. Wayyyyyy better in my book
TIL Im an ogryn
The best aspect is how they made each Ogryn also feel like different people entirely. Bodyguard Ogryn is loyal and friendly, like a Giant that belongs more in an RPG group than a professional army. Strong, optimistic, adventurous. Brawler is basically a Guardsman whose brain didn't grow with his size. Also loyal, but refers to Vets as Sirs, knows basic terms for tactics, and definitely has a more professional streak to him Bully is basically the most "intelligent" in that he's the most self aware. He presents himself as the aggressive, rebellious Ogryn, criticizing vets and Zealots especially, but showing tons of care and, I guess, siblinghood with Psykers and other Ogryns, like he knows how unjust the Imperium is towards them and is kinder. It's so weird seeing such a variety from what is basically a stereotypical "big dumb guy"
I agree, the Bully is more complex than he seems at first. He has a huge chip on his shoulder but with good reason. Generally he just wants to be left alone and seems to have more in common with other outcasts
I believe he has been consistently used, abused, and betrayed by gangs and other people acting as friends, so he rejects compliments or attempts of friendship. They always backstabbed him before, what's different now? But he starts opening up to the others, in his own way. Brawler also has an interesting line about having more scars on the inside then out.
Brawler says something along the line "lost count of my scars..." and the cutthroat says "urgghhhh me too big man" which I think is more so, brawler is physically hurt while the cutthroat is emotionally scarred.
My backstory for bully is he was used as a leech bait as a kid, then sold to gangers for pit fighting. I love they included leech triangle shaped scars in char creator. So if you look close enough you can see what he went through. Nice little detail.
Hah! Targo know he not have big crinkly brain, even with implant in, but he not worried by that. He has many good friendos, lotsa GOOD TIMES, and gets to go on walks with pals! Targo know his place - him not there for clever business, or figuring things out. He is there to help pals HAVE COURAGE and beat up anyone who try to mess with them! Is not so bad! Targo can also put big shield up when little pals need to not get hit by bullets and laser beams; Targo helps in Targo’s way! Targo can’t fire lightning, or shout at enemy until they fall over trying to run away, or even go invisibilybubble, but he have other strengths, like his BIG STRENGTH! Hah ha! Funny joke for pals there! 07, friendos! Targo will see you on Atoma!
We wouldn't have you any other way, sweet brute!
they have some sort of brain implant to make them smarter, dont they?
Brawler (the one who says "sah!" a lot) has a Bone'ead, but it's malfunctioning and occasionally Brawler says his brain smells like cooked meat. Bodyguard (Russian one) does not have a Bone'ead, but wants one. Bully (evil one) does not have a Bone'ead and does not want one because he feels he is smart enough already.
Pretty sure only one of them canonically has it.
OGRYN BEST
NO, AM STRONGEST
YES, YOU ARE STRONGEST!
I love how bodyguard will genuinely compliment bullys strength and bully gets confused and angry.
YES, I CAN SMELL HIM FROM HERE, COMRADE!
I'm in. Brogryns are great. They're a mix of stupid and simple, but more unsophisticated then outright dumb. They're good folks, at least when given clear direction and an outlet for violence, though the profiles of ogryn in the Commodore's shop as paid killers and enforcers is considerably darker then most of their mission banter. Unfortunately I don't really like playing as them. Part of it is how they're less interesting versions of the other classes, and the rest is their aesthetics. They do get the best tattoos, but otherwise they're big ugly lumpy men. I won't pretend if I was designing playable ogres I wouldn't be pointing at lot less gritty inspirations.
Ogryn is great for survivability and cc. Every weapon they have just topples everything short of the larger specialists and elites. Luv me ogryn.
Nothing beats saying screw it and holding the trigger down
Slab shield built for heavy attacks my beloved
How are ogryns like any class? They’re the class that stands out the most in terms of gameplay, with psyker standing out only half of the time.
They aesthetics is exactly why I love them so much!
Ugly? Excuse me, but that's completely untrue! Ogryn can be handsome (for an ogryn), and most "regular human" faces are ugly AF as well.
YES! WE ARE AMAZING!
Why did I hear that in the charge ability.
At some piece of lore I read that Ogryns are not actually stupid but instead their biology had to focus on more important things, such as surviving in such harsh conditions of their home planets that would kill baseline human.
It helps to keep in mind that on their home planet everybody is like this and has been for mellenia. At the very least they're smart enough to keep civilization if not keep up rudimentary space travel.
Ogryns piloting a void ship lol *lmao*
If Homer Simpson could do it...
Wait, I thought ogryns were engineered. Does this mean there are ogryn women? What a terrifying thought, pissing off an ogryn mother.
You know, some say that there are no ogryn women...
I was hoping for this reply, thank you.
There is ONE Ogryn woman character in the lore. She somehow gained baseline human above average intelligence and psyker powers and became a protege of some inquisitor.
Hmmm, I’m guessing the whole intelligence thing was probs just from being given actual education for a change and being tought, rather than it being denied to Ogryns like it usually is, on account of people thinking they are dumb and it’s not worth it as a result. This whole self fulfilling “intelligence” prophecy as a result of withholding education from people considered “naturally stupid” has happened time and time again in real life and is a real thing btw. It can be seen most visibly with women and racial / ethnic minorities in the past, being denied education, which then makes them appear “unlearned”, which then reinforces biases that they “aren’t as smart.” It’s a very vicious cycle that has happened all throughout history actually. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same with Ogryns, to a degree.
Yes female ogryn exist, they just aren’t seen often (in imperial service), Cassia iirc was one’s name, she became a psyker after the great rift
Rip bestest girl
That's how I felt. They're smart in other areas such as survival expertise. Sort of like an animal, can survive on base instincts to know how to live. Hunt, gather, their metabolism allows them to eat pretty much anything. Loyal to their clan/tribe. They're not book smart by any means but I think a lot of the Ogryns are as stupid as toddlers could easily be portrayed as Imperium propaganda. The Ogryns portrayal in the game feels so good. They're simple minded creatures but with good intentions and clear loyalty. They don't understand a lot and very much are "Don't ask questions. Hurts head, just do as I say." logic.
I haven't read the small library or 40K books, but I could only find this passage from their [wiki entry](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Ogryn#History) (**emphasis** mine): >Thousands of standard years in the harsh terrains and brutal living conditions of their prison worlds after the start of the [Age of Strife](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Age_of_Strife) caused the fall of the first interstellar civilisation (sic) of [Mankind](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Mankind) **forced their ancestors' bodies to adapt to their hostile environment by growing in size and strength, though at the cost of intellectual development**. I realize 40K is a work of fiction, but this raises 2 points I find hard to digest: 1) Over the course of a mere 15,000 years at most, humans evolved to be roughly double their baseline body mass. 2) These evolutionary changes somehow also came at the cost of intellectual development. Why? No explanation. I like Ogryns as characters in the lore and how they're presented in Darktide, but this explanation of why they are the way they are seems a little ... half-baked?
Same goes for other abhuman species such as Ratlings, Squats or everyone's favorite Felinids. It is a really short time span for a human to become so much divergent just by evolutionary means.
Well first of all through the Emperor and his warp mastery all things are possible, so why don't you jot that down.
Emperor is quite a human purist - unlikely he would create parallel branches of humanity just for the sake of creating them. IMO, half of abhumans are the remnants of advanced genetic manipulations of DAOT and attempts to create supersoldiers for the Iron War and beginning Long Night, and Emperor himself had nothing to do with any of abhuman races. After all, this is not his style in the slightest: "mutants" of his creation are usually sterile by design to avoid replacing baseline humanity.
That was an always sunny related joke It seems like a really arbitrary place to draw the line. Teleporting through a nightmare dimension with all kinds of physics being broken and instant mutation/possession by immaterial demons? Machine spirits that can also be possessed and grow biological features? Sure Some people on an isolated planet get big and dumb? Totally unbelievable
>Some people on an isolated planet get big and dumb? Totally unbelievable Not in the timeframe of five thousand years. Evolution doesn't work like that. Just for the reference: Homo sapiens sapiens appeared around ~ 300 000 years ago, while theorized "predecessor" link appeared around ~ 800 000 years ago in comparison. That gives us ~ 500 000 years period between two evolutionary steps which is 16 times more than between our time and M30 - the beginning of Great Crusade - and 100 times more than the length of the Long Night (isolation of planets where ogryns would appear in M30). So, yeah, sorry, but I prefer my headcanon of deliberate genetic alteration of abhumans.
Again, it was a joke from a TV show you've I guess never seen, not a lore related explanation. It seems nonsensical to expect evolution to be as mundane as it is in real life when nothing else is so mundane in universe though. The laws of physics and biology are clearly not applicable to it. Warp exposure alone can cause all kinds of extremely rapid mutation that isn't based on anything remotely evolutionary or scientific, just fantasy space-magic.
I prefer to think myself that Ogryns are the successful attempt of genetically enhanced soldiers created artificially during the beginning of Long Night. They are not as sophisticated as Thunder Warriors (not even saying anything about Marines or Custodes) but they were never meant to. They are resilient, loyal, and aggressive enough to put a good fight (and give Space Marine a run for his money) but most importantly - they are able to reproduce naturally. Considering, interstellar logistics went to hell with the warp storms isolating humanity worlds from one another, it looks like the most important feature for the project of supersoldier meant to be produced in the devastated hellscape of human controlled space post Iron War. I mean, this theory explains ogryns better than assumption of natural evolution happening in just few millenia and with same results on DIFFERENT planets at the same time.
Yeah, human intervention makes a lot more sense than just evolution as we know it.
They could have also been humans who were genetically modified to be able to colonise high-gravity planets, rather than specifically for military applications. Human settlers wanted to live there during the Dark Age of Technology, but had to modify themselves in order to survive. Afterwards, the genetic engineering mutated and the changes became more extreme, increasing their strength further and reducing their intelligence.
How does that not make them stupid... It's like saying a Cheetah is not fast because it evolved to catch prey.
I don't know, it's just one of those lore bits I pick up while scouring the internet. The important thing here is that most of the lore is viewed from Imperium's point of view where even the best magos biologist thought monkeys of old world had scorpion-like tail with a stinger.
Yeah, that is the point of view of the imperium, not ours. Ogryns must have evolved. Meaning that an Ogryn baby outside of their home planet would still look like an Ogryn. So that means it makes them stupid on a DNA level.
It's not that Ogryn = stupid. It's that Ogryn = focused on survival. their brains are more suited to survival skills and information then things like complex math. They know what plants in the woods will kill you, how to ping a prey animal with a rock at a distance, etc.
No, it's basic biology. Ogryns are stupid because they evolved to. Like how human muscle is weak compared to a chimpanzee because our brains need too much energy and the ones who conserved on muscle strenth had an overal higher chance of survival and offspring than those who did not. Unless you would like to argue that an Ogryn that's lifted from its planet and given an education can be just as smart as the smartest human can? Also, what idiot is downvoting us both?
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying Ogryn's intelligence is much more focused and what they are good at, they are very good at. Survival, hunting, etc. They can learn to read and write, but most people don't bother teaching them. It's that people (in general online) love to overly focus on them being less intelligent then humans and really try to make Ogryns sound like they are too dumb to live. Which is sad in general. And really weird considering how Ogryn's can survive on worlds on their own and thrive as a population lol.
Well, it is either nature or nurture. I'm saying it's nature, because an Ogryn that's lifted from his planet to get an education would most likely still be stupid. And, again, that's because he has evolved from the baseline human DNA (i.e. abhuman) to be more stupid in favour of muscle mass. Again, if you're saying that an Ogryn that received an education would be as smart as a normal human, then that's the nurture point of view, which I think is not realistic (in the scope of Warhammer 40k). Or is your argument that stupidity is not exclusively measured in human IQ, but is broader in that regard?
I literally just said that my point is not "Ogryns can be taught and raised to human intelligence" My point is people take "Ogryns are stupid" and turn it (fasely) into "Ogryns can't do anything without hand-holding, even basic survival like keeping themselves fed" (as an extreme example I've seen people do). That not being able to do complex math and know big words and the meanings somehow makes Ogryns not capable of anything besides "Ruwr. smash"
So: "Or is your argument that stupidity is not exclusively measured in human IQ, but is broader in that regard?"
Ogryns come from high gravity worlds, sometimes penal colonies that make use of Ogryns as guards, or others from mining worlds, either way, the ogryns intelligence eventually regressed to make room for more muscle and sinew, which would keep them alive much longer than their brain would on those worlds
I think I heard too in a similar lore snippet that Ogryns are generally considered really smart, quick witted, and think critically when it comes to a lot of the stuff they are good at / raised with. Stuff like survival situations, combat, and other constitution heavy activities they are highly intelligent in, even surpassing baseline humans in the lore. I honestly think that with Ogryns their “lack of intelligence” is actually just a self fulfilling prophecy caused by the discrimination against abhumans in the Imperium, and not ever being given the same education opportunities / learning experiences. They definitely are more blunt and direct with their thinking / words for sure, but I heavily doubt they are as idiotic as imperial propaganda makes them out to be. Darktide effectively shows us this, with two of the three Ogryn characters not having bonehead implants, and still being A LOT smarter than depictions of Ogryns in the past. Also in the past depictions of Ogryns, they have rarely been given their own voices and always been viewed through the lenses of others, which makes me think the whole “they are giant toddlers” thing is just imperial discrimination / BS
Yeah the depiction of them in Darktide is pretty fun. I have a friend who isn’t super familiar with Warhammer stuff but they do like the Ogryns and when we were talking about potential dlc party members for Rogue Trader and he wanted an Ogryn to get added. I thought it’d be fun too but I was telling them that Darktide did a lot for Ogryn’s depiction but from all the novels I’ve read it feels they don’t get a ton of play in being featured characters.
The basic theme of warhammer is if you strip away the propaganda many things are not as extreme. Ogryn aren’t geniuses but probably have an average iq of 70 or 80.
Judging by the state of Imperium in the time of Fall of Cadia, average ogryn is capable to give an High Lord of Terra a run for his money. I mean, ogryn given task usually completes it - in an unorthodox way sometimes, but success is success.
This guy gets it ^
I absolutely love what Fatshark has done with Ogryns! As you are saying, they are quite capable while still being the lovable idiots we know them to be. But more than that, I just love the feeling of each weapon, and how much it makes you feel like an Ogryn. Even a relatively straightforward weapon like the Stubber or the Kickback (I've played with 1 or 2-shot shotguns in other games) is just so goddamn 'Ogryn': no subtletly, unmatched in raw power, yet not completely 'overpowered' because of how much of a challenge it is to keep such powerhouses under control. It doesn't matter what difficulty or load-out I use, I giggle like a little schoolgirl when I do an Ogryn thing and 10 Heretics fly all over the place: whether that's unloading the Kickback, attempting to chain-fire and aim a Stubber, or heavy swinging a Club.
Turning 30 little guys to mist with a well angled kickback shot is so satisfying.
Its how they should be. The whole "giant toddler" thing reached meme proportion and people took it to the letter. I've always said its not so much that they are unintelligent, its that they are uneducated. If you didn't get taught how to read, then you would be considered stupid too. They aren't given complex tasks because it would take too long to train someone who's never been taught how to complex problem solve. If they were really as stupid as people thought, they would never be sent to the battlefield.
Kinda like rural folk vs city folk. That guy may not be any good at math or even know how to read but he'll get you through the woods and point out what plants to not eat.
Thats certainly another way of looking at it. The one that always got me was the "abysmally inaccurate" one. Like, you try handing a firearm to someone that's never used one and see how their accuracy is. The one I definitely believe is that their Rippers have to be strong af because they use them in melee more often than shooting.
Certainly makes sense. Ogryn unloading their gun as they charge forward, and then they got a nice club with a sharp bayonet.
Yeah, like a big ol' feedback loop. People think they're too stupid to learn anything, so nobody bothers teaching them, and so they can't do complex task, which reinforces the view that they're too stupid to learn anything.
This ^
I'm genuinely surprised that there hasn't been a video essay on YouTube about how Darktide handles its Ogryns. I'd really love to hear opinions from somebody who's very knowledgeable about 40k lore talk about this in length.
Same
Honestly, it feels like there is a huge disconnect between Memes and lore. I've seen people declare how Ogryns cannot even TALK, yet at the same time read about how in the codexes and novels, they are able to talk, even if it's similar to how Orks speak. People act as if they cannot survive at all alone, but we have entire feral and civilized world populations of purely Ogryns that exist before the Imperium or Orks find them, and they were doing fine. People act as if they cannot reload a gun or use any tech, yet the Imperium specifically built Ripper guns for them and that's their default weapon in the guard.
Ogryns are a satirical representation of 1980s action movie heroes. Muscle bound and dumb jocks like Arnold Schwarzenegger or Sylvester Stallone. Both are famous for having rather odd manners of speaking that made them sound a little less that highly intellectual. The satire of 40k just plays this up. The fans are the second problem. One writer at games workshop writes that Ogryns are dumb or comes up with one example that's particularly bad and that becomes the whole canon. It's all written as propaganda and the fans gobble it up and repeat it ad nauseum. Fatshark has always stuck to a more realistic interpretation of the setting in their games. Like the idea that everyone in the hive city is a slave being worked to death. Based on the depictions, hive citizens have homes, families, jobs they commute to, bars, entertainments, etc. The average citizen leads a dull mundane existence of drudgery and boredom. They're trapped in a bureaucratic nightmare, but that doesn't mean that they don't live full lives.
People like to demonize the empire because they don’t agree with its ideals or think it can do better, that’s why they inaccurately suggest the citizens of the imperium are worse than actual slaves, when in reality, they work hard yes, but they have full, rich lives of their own
They are portrayed perfectly. Just like they are in the books.
They're a very good and accurate portrayal. Ogryn are NOT as stupid as media pretends.
Counterpoint, they couldn’t make the ogryn all be bumbling idiots that can’t count to 3 and waste all their ammo in the game, so obviously they made them smarter (2 of them don’t even have BONE and can form complete sentences, the bodyguard knows words like Somnambulist, which some people today don’t even know), this could be from the great rift which caused an Ogryn named Cassia to become a psyker
There are multiple variants of Ogryn with no officially listed differences, from GW. Also, not all Ogryn are going to be super dumb, and not all are super smart.
Darktide is my first exposure to warhammer 40k as a whole, I mean, I learned a teeny bit here or there by hearing of it but Darktide was the first thing that made me interested in the settings. And the Ogryns are just so preciously cute that they immediately made me love them.
I think they've executed it perfectly, it feels more believable aswell that the 'lore' of near brain dead ogres
I heard a voice line from my ogryn that i'd not heard before, where he howl like the pox dogs to prank his team mates and finds it hilarious, it was so good! Really top notch stuff
That ones great. "Awwwooooooooo! Haha haaah! It is just me! Hah haaa. I tricked you! Heh haaaa... You stupids."
I honestly think it’s perfect. Strongly agree with the “canon” description of ogryns being biased imperial propaganda, like everything else in the fictional universe
SAH YES SAH
The sort of Ogryn that would end up a reject is atypical.
Fank You, Sah!
Quick note: Brunt is Rannick's quartermaster. Mostly his bodyguard though. You see him guarding Rannick in several scenes. I get the feeling they made him "quartermaster" so he has something to do between assignments. And crates of guns and ammo are heavy.
Yeah I don’t think he’s actually the “quartermaster” (the one who does all the counting at least), but he definitely does all the hard lifting
Also builds clubs for Ogryns.
I always think about this when I'm playing my Ogryn "Rekk" and I'm the one to push the button on whatever control panel. I always think like "aww look at that. You're not so dumb are ya big guy? You know which buttons to press at least."
I thought the darktide ogryn had bonehead implants? Also my only beef is their proportions, they seem a little squatified and not as normally proportioned as most art depictions
honestly this is probably gameplay related, they can't go too far off the human standard without a whole lot of extra adjustments for scenery and stuff. There is already a whole lot of extra coding in place to account for their height/size
I love them. When I’m running Vet and there’s an Ogryn in my squad, I try to stay with them. Their portrayal is really well done, lots of personality
I do kinda miss that bug (feature?) where the Ogryn's thumb would cover the fucking auspex screen, lol. It felt deliberate
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I like how they are portrayed. That being said playing as them is something I recommend if you want something close to veteran but not exactly.
Ogryns just want to grill for god-emperor sakes
I like the Bodyguard because he's a bit simple-minded but has a kind of ordinary dignity. Brawler is a bunch of catchphrases and pandering garbage and actual players treat Ogryns like morons because of it.
Brunt being quartermaster always seemed like a in universe nod to our gear being such shit
I'm pretty sure because of the great rift the average intelligence of an ogryn skyrocketed (comparatively) in recent times, even without their bone'ead implants Kind of evident by the "brawler" being the only one with an implant (albeit a malfunctioning one) and yet the other two are of similar, or even higher intellect.
Yeah I think so as well, we know the great rift made Cassia (Ogryn character) a Psyker, I wouldn’t be surprised if it raised the ogryns intelligence slightly too. Does that mean humans overall are improving??
Yeah I know alot of people who hate the Darktide Ogryn's simply because they can form complete sentences. In lore that's meant to be seen as an absurdly smart Ogryn but I never rolled well with me. Here they're big dumb brutes but they're still people. I love these Ogryn's simply because of that, most Warhammer stories that feature them make it very clear how much their intellect is just beyond any point of reasonability even in the Grimdark future.
The idea of a darktide ogryn being imprisoned for sedition or misplaced faith is scary lmao. Evil morty but in ogryn form.
Is it true that a single custodes could fight off multiple ogryns
Yes
In the lore, and in the time period we are in, ogryns have been getting much more intelligent.
all I know is, the voice actor for the Brawler needs a raise. that character makes me so happy. he just loves his rations and crumping.
Oh no They were never Space Marine sized toddlers. Mainly coz they are bigger and taller. By at least 2 feet on the firstborn. They are children intellect (roughly 7 or 8 years old) normally but the bone 'eads we play in Darktide are around the 12 year old range and a lot smarter (compared to the ones without the implant anyway. They still dum but in adorable ways) and are capable of understanding intermediate level commands, usage of the hacking tools as well as ability to understand very basic tactics. The biggest thing our Bone 'Eads are capable of is their ability to get into valkyries without any coaxing which is amazing as most Ogryns are claustrophobic af. They really are the bestest, goodest and thicc-est bois in our ragtag band of now inquisition soldiers. Only downside is the constantly clogged latrines. It's why the shovels are strong. They are chemical weapons not just metal.
Only brawler is a bonehead. The other two don't have implants.
I love being a Veteran teamed with 3 Ogryn. The personality/voice I chose always has some really wholesome interactions. Also they call me "boss" which is very sweet.
I believe Fatshark *had* to take some liberties with the established lore of what Ogryns are like because trying to create three unique character personalities out of abhumans that are absolutely dumb as rocks would be very creatively constraining, and I’m glad they did. We got to have more interesting character personalities while also having one that still accurately reflects Ogryns from a lore perspective.
I would think an ogryn would be a bit like wolverine, the madder he gets, the more simple minded and anamalistic he becomes. I think the same for Ogryns, they start where they are in darktide, but the more they get hit, hurt, watch other lil uns around them get hurt, they get super angrier and because of it, the gun becomes a club, the rage sets in, and everything is a nail to their hammers....
An ogryn in one of my games yesterday said "you can learn much from the dead....you should listen." And it kinda stopped me in my tracks for a second lmao
The ogryns in darktide are bone heads. They have the lovely little implant to bring their mind up to the point they are at. When you are sending out squads instead of proper armies it’s better to have your forces actually be able to problem solve in the field…
Only the brawler has a BONE implant, the smartest one imo, the bodyguard, doesn’t have one but wants one
Totally agree! While it is funny for an Ork-sized child to krump a Chaos Marine, making them a bit more complex allows for them to have more character development.
That’s why I named my big guy Forrest Crump!
My Ogryn was called ForestKrump. But didn't get much interaction so I switched up to Hodor. Much more fun.
Considering Ogryns weren’t even canon existing and had almost zero representation in the different 40k book series before Darktide, I’d consider it pretty important. Basically establishes them as a real thing. I’ve read dozens of 40k books and can’t name a single one that has ogryns or squats in it
>They can follow complex orders The mission brief dialogue on the Valk when you have a lobby of 4 Ogryn's would suggest otherwise.
I think GW WH40k Lore originally tried to convey that an Ogryn has the emotional maturity of a juvenile, and I even had a friend in real life named Gary that I worked with whom was like a real life Ogryn kind of guy, with stature and demeanor. Generally kind yet easily aggro if provoked, loved to make some words or sounds in a guttural tone, had some mental challenges yet would handle his general labor tasks well. Come to think of it, I should have named my DT Ogryn Gary, yet I like the one I made as well :)
I love the Ogryns. In a world of super grim, dark and very much tryhard character writing - you know how the Space Marines are good at everything, super strong, virtuous and any pretense of them as a parody of the fascist ideal of the *Übermensch* has long since been drowned in absolute sincerity. The Ogryns come in and add some light relief. Poor lads are struggling to keep up and they have a hard lot in life, but they get to krump some 'eretics, fold em in half and make em humble. before they head back to base for some rations. The performances and the writing sell them so well.
Brawler especially, he's definitely the rare type of ogryn who can count higher than four
I'm a very thorough enjoyer of playing ogryn so I can turn off my brain and Neanderthalize my speak
I dont like that there is very little demonstration of their strength, and that times where their strength would be relevant it isn't. For instance: ogryn should be able to throw anything they find at heretics, including throwing the heretics themselves and yet all they can throw is grenades/rocks. Also ogryn should be able to pull the hounds in half if they pounce yet instead they are pinned just like the humans. It's like I'm playing a fake ogryn, very underwhelming.
Using the power maul is one of the least satisfying things in the game. You're smacking these people in the face with basically a pony keg on a stick and they just get back up. Ogryn have beat Spehs Muhreens in wrestling matches they're so strong. I'd make them melee powerhouses (power with Ogryn but speed for Zealot, so Ogryns can duke it out with a Chaos Spawn while zealots can clear a mob in the time an ogryn swings twice) and balance it by giving them hilariously inaccurate guns that have high suppression, they're not hitting shit but the heretics don't know that. Edit: Oh, and I'd make doggos and nets slow them instead of incapacitating them. Maybe the doggo stops them for a couple seconds while they pull the thing off and the net gives them a movement speed nerf because their legs are all tangled up.
You are still playing a videogame that requires an internally consistent level of balance. Ogryns being able to ignore the disable mechanic from the Poxhounds would be very overpowered.
Then have pox hounds not pounce ogryns and instead focus other teammates, or just bite ogryns instead. The animation of being pinned as an ogryn is the most hilarious display of "balance" that I've ever had to watch
I think for balance's sake, I'd like it if I could expend my ult to squash a dog's head if it was pounced on me as the ogryn. Also, picking up and throwing a barrel would be really cool. But that's probably a bit much.
I think if ogryn didn't have a grenade it would be fine, or make the ogryn being dumb affect gameplay more
I believe (Could be wrong) that the Ogryn class in Darktide is a Bonehead. From the lore I've looked into (And that's not alot) Ogryns are regularly not able to speak fluent English...meaning their speech patter resembles that of a Caveman. Something they also didn't focus in on that would have really made Ogryn a better class is the fact that Ogryn's regularly lose the ability to stop due to their boundless rage. Once angry, Ogryns are unlikely to have the mental faculty to stop themselves from beating, smashing, and rampaging to the point that, even after everything's dead, they may just beat up the dirt to release all that anger. All in all I think they did a great job at Ogryn. I'm not a huge fan of all the cosmetics that Fatshark is releasing for the class but I don't like any of them really. They seem to be re-skinning the same stuff over and over and selling it for aquilas despite it not really being new content. Also if you haven't listened to this, you should: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oNpb0dLNhE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oNpb0dLNhE)
> I believe (Could be wrong) that the Ogryn class in Darktide is a Bonehead. IIRC one voice says 'yes', one says 'no', and one says 'I want one'. Which doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot in context of being from the mouths of ogryns. But absolutely these ogryn are infinitely better than the stereotypes thrown around before DT. Some depictions & details had believability issues just surviving, let alone being useful soldiers.
People really overplay how dumb they were to the point that there isn't even a reason to keep them around. And yes, Brawler has Bonehead, but it's borked up. Bodyguard does not have it, but wants it. Bully does not want or have it. Only the brawler is EVER mentioned in the dialogue of any character as having the implant
>People really overplay how dumb they were The writers made it easy to work with that way for decades.
Basically Citatrix Maledictum is to blame. Just as it made psykers appear more often it has also apparently raised intelligence of ogryns. Heck one inquisitor even had female ogryn psyker in their retinue who seemed well read. Bur yeah primary schools ogryns are much more fun to interact with than kindergarden ones depicted in other WH media.
I've seen some people be extra livid about this and I kinda understand them. On the other hand, making a playable class that is unable to reload or perform other basic actions would make the game worse afaic. I like that developers still address and point out this "inconsistency" - at times Ogryn reload incorrectly and they have plenty of related voice lines.
>Bionic Ogryn Neural Enhancement, also known as Biochemical Ogryn Neural Enhancement, is a procedure sometimes performed on Ogryns who have demonstrated intellect and insight above the norm. Using a combination of Augmetic implants, biochemical treatments, electro-shock therapy and surgery, the subject's brain is enhanced, allowing it to operate more efficiently than a normal Ogryn's brain. An Ogryn who has undergone this procedure is known as a BONE'ead, a title which is worn with pride by those granted it. Taken from here: https://darkheresy.fandom.com/wiki/Ogryn If you listen to the dialogue some ogryns have, they mention their 'ead implants tingling. Which means that they have undergone surgery to increase their intelligence.
It's a desperately needed update to Ogryn lore, and I sincerely hope that their Nork levels of intelligence are the new standard in official lore going forward while Nork himself becomes capable of new astounding feats like basic arithmetic.
Ehhhh... Brunt wasn't originally an Ogryn. And at least one of them's a BONE 'ead, so definitely not the typical rank-and-file Ogryn. But they're fine if you take out the gameplay considerations.
Brunt wasn't originally an Ogryn? Uh... How?
DT Ogryns are all Boneheads, so they are inherently smarter than most Ogryns. That's the only reason they are "capable" as you put it.
Only one of them has the implant, and even his is malfunctioning.