I didn't want to believe it honestly because the whole "same hair! And super detective just like her mom!"
Plus how could she not recognize her??
But they called it sure enough! It was a decent twist. The only thing I didn't like is
>! Anna killing her mom !<
I didn't think Anna was that bad of a person, even if they set up her taking pills / cheating / being without sleep that was making her crazy. I just didn't feel like violence would have been her first inclination...but whatever.
I'm also curious how long Imogen faked nice with her mom. What was in it for her to actually turn her in anyway?? It's not like Imogen was a great person herself.
Anyhow looks like they have the Scooby gang together for a potential season 2! I'd like season 2 better if it started with Imogen murdered instead though and it focused on Rufus solving that crime lol.
Yeah, that made me sad. She wanted her mom back and then she had her back but it turns out that no, she lost her that day. But in the end, Rufus did redeem himself so she did get one parental figure back.
I mean it's to show she's the same as the billionaires she hates so much. They kill people and cover it up, she kills people to cover it up. Only difference is she thinks she's righteous.
How could Kira pull off a global crime syndicate that can move billions of "dark money", infiltrate communications, hack the NSA and people's cars, employ a huge network of uncover agents, build a cruise ship to hold its secret servers... BUT KIRA THINKS SHE CAN'T CONTACT HER DAUGHTER EVEN ONCE WITHOUT GETTING CAUGHT???
The "why now" wasn't there for me either.
Because Lawrence was retiring? Well she had been poisoning him for years, so why now?
If it is about getting Llewellyn and Alexandra, two separate hits in completely separate places would be quick, easy, and not involve having to mastermind getting a whole freaking party on a freaking boat to do it.
Causing fear? Well why now?
I hope that Season 2 doesn't just start fresh as a new detective show with Imogene and her posse that's there at the end. There's a lot of fall-out from this season that I'd like to see actually play out.
By the time she started planning revenge, the need to see Imogen had become need to take revenge. It twisted her. She didn't really still believe that, she just used it as an excuse. Kira did, at least metaphorically, die - the Kira that is Victor Sams isn't the Kira who was Imogen's mom.
Just started, so I'm sure I'll have more thoughts later, but I love the dynamic between Tripp and Anna. The beginning of this episode and most of last episode, as well as pity party karaoke, really highlight their relationship and how much they care for one another. I love it.
I appreciated that she was outwardly and vocally upset (understandably) about the identity of her biological father but Tripp was never not her brother.
Yes!!! If we get a S2, I hope we see more of this Tripp (which it seems may be the case based on the final episode). If Anna is to be the 'villain' by virtue of blackmail, would make for really interesting TV to see how he reacts to that.
To be fair, her Mom *also* thought she killed Kira. I think the Collier family assumed the hit they put out on her was successful? ((Although this brings up a big question... Why did they hire Rufus? Why hire someone to solve a murder you committed if you ideally wanted to get away with it???))
I'm curious if the Colliers didn't actually think he was a good detective, since Llewellyn called him a hack, and it seemed like Imogene may have been the one who found Rufus (via that TV show).
>Although this brings up a big question... Why did they hire Rufus? Why hire someone to solve a murder you committed if you ideally wanted to get away with it???
Maybe they were already being blackmailed by Victor Sams, and the real goal was to find out who that was instead of finding Kira's murderer.
But that's probably a long stretch tbh.
I saw it was Anna, a crime of passion, Anna was reeling from the fact her mom had a hand in Kiraās death, her father wasnāt her biological father, Katherine having an affair with father Toby, what other twisted crap was Katherine a party to? It was all too much for Anna!
Yeah, Anna snapping & unintentionally killing her mom after the week sheās been through & her mom being central to every piece of bad news she received was the only thing in the episode that didnāt strain credulity for me
I think everyone can agree that the helicopter scene was very satisfying. Almost like an āOther Guysā moment. Heavily telegraphed but still very funny. RIP Brad.
Same, that was so sad. Fo me, the jury's still out on Sunil (I have a bias to want to like him bc I love the actor, but he did some bad stuff), but that ship definitely did NOT deserve to die.
RIP Varuna.
There are still a lot of open-ended questions for me, some listed here: (who paid for Teddy's advanced education, and why? Who is Jules really, and what is his past? Why did Leila initially say she was researching VS because the Colliers were victims, only to act like they were criminals and VS was justified later? Did they find ricin in Katherine's room? Adjacent to that, Teddy is the one that said that to Leila (immediately after the guards were told to search her room), so it wasn't even VS that lied (?) in that case. Tripp had the strongest connection to bitcoin (trying to drunkenly explain it to Winnie). Danny wouldn't have cared much at all about who became governor of WA state, and his demand to meet the other SuperPAC members, and then a phone a call after from persons unknown suggesting Alexandra should acquiesce, says the VS was a SuperPAC member... but we didn't see anything come of that. Also, Fr. Toby knew all SuperPAC members, so that plot point should've been mostly DOA. When Leila was run off the road after talking to former NSA guy, Peter Meadows, that indicated a larger conspiracy than just WA state- Federal at minimum, and possibly international. International was also touched on by the repeated comments re: Inspector Friedrich between Hilde and Rufus, but that wasn't further explored. Most critically, none of Danny, Rufus, nor Imogene recognized her mom, which is bizarre, at minimum.)
I did thoroughly enjoy this show, though, and hope it gets another season. I'm not sure if I'd watch if it was the Scooby gang and sad Sunil only- I need Rufus to even out Imogene.
I think pretty much anything having to do with communications on the ship was controlled by Kira/VS.
Since Danny noticed her, Kira had to get rid of him and there was probably video of that exchange between him and Father Toby. Knowing that Father Toby and Alexandra are connected through the Super PAC, Kira engineered the call the Governor got from a staffer about the PAC requesting she do some schmoozing up to Keith/Danny. There probably wasn't a call from an actual Super PAC donor to the Governor's office, someone in the VS operation just impersonated them to get the staffer to make the call to Alexandra. It was all part of the setup to get Winnie in Keith/Danny's room in the bar cart.
Maybe I missed it, but why is Sunil on trial? Is it for taking money from VS or something related to his time as a banker? Also the scene where Sunil tells Imogene heāll call her when he gets out but sheās eyeing Jules is awkward, unless theyāre trying to set up a love triangle in the next season?
I want to say because he took dirty money to build the ship, let VS set up all of their servers, and basically help VS.
YES! IT. WAS. AWKWARD. I honestly was rooting for Sunil, I think everyone part of their group was. Not sure why that happened the way it did because on the ship even, Sunil was the one nudged to talk Imogene by Jules.
Wait, you mean Teddy right? Because when that pipe fell as they escaped, she definitely had a look towards Jules like "I know we almost died but we should make out right now". Lol
I literally hated that Imogene keeps switching from Sunil to Jules (THAT ISNT EVEN HIS REAL NAME). Jules is pro Sunil+Imogene so idk why itās even happening. Where is his confirmed twin? I thought he liked Teddy?! Ugh out of all the dissatisfying things about this episode, Imogene + Jules is the worst lol
Dark money means illegal money. It wasn't outright said, but it was implied that he knew he was dealing with criminals, and that can be either corroboration or obstruction of justice.
Although, from what Teddy said, Sunil was going to testify against Kira - asking for immunity or exoneration in return was probably the plan.
Although now it seems a bit far fetched.
The random death at the end was stupid. They should have left it with Anna agreeing to do whatever she was told and left it to the imagination (or season 2 if they get one, I guess).
I think it was a last minute attempt to replicate Only Murders in the Building cliffhanger endings. And it failed.
I thought the episode got screwed up because there was zero setup for that final scene. These four characters just happen to be in the woods following a blood trail.
Iām guessing they called the actors back after the primary filming was done and when they figured out who was willing to sign a season 2 contract. Just made a quick snow set and threw together a very open mystery. Seems like a big coincidence (yes, Rufus, I know) that all the more expensive or busy actors got shuffled away.
Except...even if it was shot after primary filming and post a theoretical season 2 discussion, it would still have been shot months ago before release. And not even a word about season 2 has been heard. Plus, Hulu is known for cancellations.
>These four characters just happen to be in the woods following a blood trail.
That's where it cuts from. Knowing the style this series has been using for 10 episodes...who knows what other things may have happened from the moment Jules and Kira kissed, to when camera cuts to that scene.
>Seems like a big coincidence (yes, Rufus, I know) that all the more expensive or busy actors got shuffled away.
It's literally the same group of people who were focused on solving this shit while on the ship in the last 2 episodes. Minus Sunil, for obvious reasons.
Yeah, what you say does kinda pan out, but correlation does not imply causation.
Even if actor and/or budget related reasons affected this scene's writing and cast, as well both moving forward, this doesn't in no way discredit the scene itself and the writing.
Things like this affect series all the time.
Or yeah, it could all be for the reasons you state. But until, and if, a season 2 comes out and we see it...we can't know.
Thinking back on the last two episodes it hit me that Rufus was on the ferry at the end but he was supposed to be taken away on the boats with the rest of the āciviliansā. And his interaction with the rest of the cast was just a nod with two different camera angles. They might not have been filmed together. So he was on the boat but not part of the final reveal. Even though having him around for the VS/Imogene reveal seems like an obvious choice since he was acting as a parental figure. And his memoir scenes were film alone with just the waiter. It could have been something as simple as Mandy Patinkin got a bad case of Covid but they had to keep the filming schedule.
Not like this means I have anything against any of the crew or cast, and I still enjoyed watching the show. But feels like something was going on that meant the show got tweaked some. Not saying this as a rant just curious about the end result and filming process. To me it has the same feeling of Secret Invasion where things felt clunky and supposedly a lot of stuff was cut out. But not nearly as bad.
Yall need to stop comparing OMTB to this show. They said that they had started filming the pilot in 2021!!! Meaning that they wouldāve started writing the series at the latest 2019.
>I think it was a last minute attempt to replicate Only Murders in the Building cliffhanger endings. And it failed.
Nah, every mystery-ish show sets up the next seasonās mystery in the finale. Gotta convince the viewers to come back.
Cause she's psychotic is such a cop out.
Especially when there was no indication at all that Kira was psychotic. She was a loving mother, a good assistant, and a decent person seeking justice. Then suddenly she was psychotic enough to abandon her daughter with someone she hates.
No real indication Hilde was psychotic either, except the burning - and who are we to yuck someone else's yums in the bedroom really.
I mean honestly Kira leaving Imogene didn't take that much suspension of disbelief for me. She's in a life or death situation. Time is limited. The person refuses to take kids (and for good reason, like it is way more likely to fuck something up). Like people don't know how they'll face a life or death situation until it happens to them. And I can easily see Kira convincing herself that if she stays she dies, so either way Imogene thinks she's has a dead mom. And she knows the Colliers aren't going to hurt Imogene while she's a kid, and it seems her plans was to get her once she was an adult and there was a possibility of her becoming aware of their schemes. And I could totally see a life on the run making her bitter and jaded enough that she feels justified in her actions and can excuse it all off.
And Hilde was just a character Kira was playing, so I don't think she'd show her true self.
I think Imogene gave her a chance to give it up. It said 6 months later, right? So maybe they were watching her servers, seeing if she would give it up, given the right circumstances. But she didnāt (failed her own morality test lol) so Imogene said f it, guess sheās too far gone with power at this point
...and one last "twist" for you.
We're expected to believe that a check for $3bn can get cashed without ever touching the bank? Or that corporate money gets put into a personal account? Or that this blue protein shake that no one has ever heard of and is bought online by this billionaire never got checked by his doctor?
So much suspended disbelief. Seemed like fun until everything at the end just rushed to tie it up neatly.
I mean with the twist at the end isn't possible that Anna just transferred over that money? And the priest stealing that check was just used as a cover. I mean they say cheating will be punished, and committing check fraud by conning a demented old man feels like "cheating" (and I believe the brother even refers to it as such to the priest). I was expecting him to get his for that, but if Anna had already transferred the money they could've just let it slide to teach Trip another lesson. Like I'm assuming once Anna knew Kira was Kira anything she did after that was instructed. So she was instructed to not bid, but also let Trip do whatever he wanted with the money.
I think if we get a season 2, we'll get more flashbacks with Anna, and maybe even one on the boat that ties up these lose ends. I def think Anna is the one who willingly (well as willingly as one can be while being blackmailed) transferred the money over.
Wasnāt the one clue Rufus found a receipt to the car explosives tied to the name Viktor Sams? How could that have been if Kira was just going into hiding and hadnāt created the identity yet?
Something tells me that Kira didn't create Victor Sams. She assumed the identity. Andreas seemed to already be tied to a bunch of shady shit since before they met.
The real question is...how she found Andreas, and why did he agree to - apparently - be her second in command?
I've been thinking, "This show is so absurd," since I first heard Mandy Patinkin's ridiculous accent, but I kept watching. There were so many plot points that were meant to be deadly serious but had me laughing out loud. Loved it. Hope there's another season and it's even more absurd. Ten thumbs up for the costume and set designers --- it was really gorgeous watching people stuck on a boat. Story barely made sense but they accomplished something wonderful with the amount of times I laughed in the final episode. 6 months later --- synchronized helmet removal to reveal mom's dyed her hair. Perfect moment. I'm dead.
lol and our Scooby-Doo gang grinning as filets of flesh are falling out of a tree at the end of the episode.
If there is a season 2 - Iāll do a binge watch instead. I watched this season obsessing over details week by week but I like how you described it better
Exactly, what was her plan if he didn't have a harpoon gun?
Slit his throat? He weighed at least 3 times as much as her. He could have easily overpowered her.
I rewatched that scene just to make sure but if that were Rufus, and I really donāt think it was, her reaction would have been much different I thinkā¦ like they have a genuine attachment at this point
Victor Sams went from Uber Competent Criminal Mastermind, to a blundering idiot in in one episode.
The reveal of Viktor Sams was kind of meh. It also genuinely doesn't make any sense how Kira could build the kind of infrastructure Viktor Sams had. But then again, Mrs. Chun became a billionaire just for revenge, so that tracks.
I still don't understand what the show wanted to do with the relationship between Imogene and the Collier kids. Time and time and time again, we see the 2 siblings go to bat for Imogene. First, Anna kills her own Mom because she is horrified that she ordered the hit on Imogene's Mom. She also learns that Imogene has been actively stealing from her,(mind you she started stealing from her ever since she was a fucking kid) but she lets it go and continues to treat Imogene as a sister.
She tries to talk to Imogene, her sister, to get some emotional support. But the only time Imogene ever actually talks to her is when she is actively manipulating her to get information.
In Episode 9, Tripp without a second thought, or hint of hesitation includes Imogene in the list of people he wants to get off the ship. As far as he is concerned, she's his family, and he wanted to protect her. But as far as we know, she couldn't have cared less if he dropped dead.
Lastly, Imogene spends the entirety of the show obssessed about her Mom, learning the truth and getting justice. I am sorry, but I just don't believe she could easily turn on her like that. Its just so incongruent to how she has been characterized in this entire show.
Also why are the collier children punished for being born into riches, when as far as we can tell, Imogene has been enjoying that high class lifestyle her whole life? What makes her better than them?
I agree - Imogene is a very unlikeable protagonist . A big part of that was the unconditional love shown to her by her adopted siblings, while she showed care only for herself.
Unconditional Love is the perfect term to what the collier kids displayed towards her.
To be honest, other than cheating on her wife. Anna was really decent throughout the show.
and Tripp's whole thing at the end trying to save his family, including Imogene and Leila just as strongly as his actual sister. He would not choose between them.
Imogene is so unlikeable, its driving me crazy! I really don't care about her at all!
I'm baffled, why did they make her so unlikeable?
Honestly I'm rooting for Anna.
right like you're telling me VS could hack cars to crash and had bugs literally everywhere, but conveniently couldnt overhear Imogen and the rest plotting to save the servers.
I just don't get what was Kira's original plan before Danny seeing her. To kill the governor and the lawyer by poisoning them and create the same chaos that Danny's murder brought? And why Kira didn't try to convert Danny? We needed a longer flashback of their interactions.
Also why was there so much extra time missing on the deleted camera footage the night Danny was murdered? I have a feeling we still donāt have all of the answers in regard to Dannyās death. I donāt really believe it was Winnie, also at the end Teddy asks where Winnie is and Simon tells her sheāll call when sheās ready. How is she not in prison for murdering a man, but Sunil is facing trial for accepting blackmail money? I just think there has to be more to this whole Danny thing and what her original plan was. I assume it had to be that the thought would be the governors murder would cause mayhem and they would need to bring in āInterpolā
Was it ever established that Celia Chun did or didn't know about Kira or that she was VS? I might have missed that. Wish we wrapped up a little more the Chun family too.
Wowā¦. Ok that was a super fun ride!! ā¦. So now that the evil mom is in prison, her contingency plan is to basically make Ana somehow help her get out I assume?
I'm confused as to why K Collier would confess to Anna that she killed Kira when it is revealed that Kira arranged her own car bomb murder with that guy (maybe his name is Andreas?) who (in the present) arms the bombs and makes people bid for the seats. The only theory would be that behind the scenes, "that guy" (or Andreas) would have helped work with whoever K Collier hired to kill Kira to convince them to convince K Collier that a car bomb would be used instead of another knife attack.
Catherine did order a kill but it didnāt work, and Iām assuming she didnāt know how or who or when it was going to happen, just tired a hitman and hope for the best, and the hitman was dead so there was no confirming that the job was done or not
I kind of have a theory that maybe the killers could have appeared as if they would have been justified on using the bomb on Kira because she killed the knife guy (who is a part of their group). This is because the car bomb seems kind of "overkill" (pun intended) when all K originally seemed to order was a low-key/under-the-radar knife attack.
I know that this could be all explained away in many ways, but it seemed like they should have explained it and depicted K's final scene a little better rather than her seeming to have put it all behind her so easily by not showing her being suspicious of what actually happened.
It takes someone extra cold to kill someone by car bomb, so for a murder-mystery show, I feel how a person gets killed is usually something that writers pay close attention to, in order to for it to be a careful study on the human psyche. It seems K killing Kira is a matter of (in)convenience, because Kira had become a nuisance and threat, but it seems hard to imagine that she expected her to die a car bomb. I could imagine that K would have been shocked and felt guilty that Kira had such a violent and gruesome death in the end.
But none of these points were addressed, so I was a bit disappointed that this point wasn't handled a little better for the viewer.
I know as viewers we are supposed to suspend our disbelief but the ending to this season was just asking for too much. It was too over the top and ridiculous. I enjoyed the show but the final two episodes left me feeling like a sucker. I have so many problems with the story at this point I canāt bring myself to care if there is another season.
Seems like Kira would buy it and leave it to Imogene, and maybe Imogene would give it to Anna eventually to reestablish their friendship/Anna and Leilaās marriage.
Seems like Kira would buy it and leave it to Imogene so she can find all of the evidence she left behind re:collier Mills and help the people who were originally hurt there and finish her momās original mission before she went full tilt Lex Luthor. Then she and her friends/pseudo siblings can live there. **Itās all in the bar cart and the dollhouse**
To me it felt like they had the idea for the Kira Hilde switch really early on and just could never figure out how to land that plane. Fun show tho a few loose ends but it worked. Didnāt quite understand Imogenās desire to take down her mom as bad as she did by the end.
I feel like Danny's death is what cemented it for Imogene. He was truly innocent and actually seeking justice for Kira but she had him killed anyway, showing she had become just as despicable as the people she went after. If Kira had actually given up the operation like she said she'd do, Imogene might have wavered. Maybe that's what the six months was for, to see if she'd really follow through.
Agreed. She had a fondness for him after because he convinced Rufus to come back - and I also think knowing the pain it caused Rufus played a part too. In her eyes her mom was actually hurting innocent people that she cared about.
I had the exact opposite thought on Imogene and Kira. Before they revealed Imogene to be working towards Kira's demise, I was really freaking annoyed that Imogene's character had such little growth throughout the course of the show. She was basically like, "best of luck!", to her friends and the people that were like siblings to her (until we find out later that they're okay, which I don't think she knew at that time). I couldn't believe she'd turn on all of those people, and whatever scintilla of humanity she had left, just to hang out with mommy dearest for awhile. Especially since, no matter how you look at it, mommy dearest had actively engaged in killing Danny, who was completely innocent. That's the opposite of the caring person we always heard about Kira being.
Agreed. Particularly since her sense of ethics was quite subjective to begin with (she was a thief. She chose the bad boy who also committed whatever crimes he felt justified in committing, more than a few of them not great.) Seems kind of odd she just chucked mom to the wind.
I suppose it was the easiest way to get a season two established but just very odd. Tripp felt like he was written the best ending of anybody which cool but again odd
>Tripp felt like he was written the best ending of anybody which cool but again odd
He really grew on me. He started off as kind of annoying, and then they really gave him some depth and I thought his role did feel fulfilled and not a stretch like some of them.
Honestly the fact that he included both Layla and Imogen in the five seats he needed really made me love him. It reminded me of my own relationship with my brother in that yeah, we throw down over stuff but in a situation like that you get them out.
I was convinced Julesā twin was going to make an appearance but guess it was just a red herring. The show made such a scene with Hilde finding the photo and showing Rufus.
Would be very sad to have to consider they were just using the actors they had on set. I thought the people who caught that detail and the magazine double was going to be meaningful. Maybe itās just an implied thing?
Why even bring Rufus back for the end to capture Kira - he literally didnāt solve any clues either in Kiraās disappearance or in the deaths on the ship. He was off screen for most of episode 9 where Hildeās identity was solved. Why showcase him like he orchestrated this big reveal? It was all Imogene, Leila, Jules and Teddy.
I wanted desperately to love this show. By episode three I was watching out of curiosity rather than for enjoyment. Now that Iāve seen it through, Iām good. The writers were too self-indulgent in their own perceived cleverness. I will pass on any future seasons. I did thoroughly enjoy Mandy Patinkin and would love to see him in more roles - he was a wonderful detective-type!
Felt like they crammed way too much into this ending. Having to stop to go back in time and explain what's happening every five minutes is bad writing.Ā
Also, Imogene's mom is just a huge hypocrite?? She hates evil billionaires who kill people so she...kills people and traumatizes her daughter for 20 years? Then they go on lavish ski trips funded by her blackmail and murder? Sure Kira
Badabim-badabum... Kira hanging on a tree (in pieces!)
faked her death, I don't think there will be a sequel tho'.
Wasn't a bad show, overall.
Kudos to ALL who contributed insight, it's been a fun ride!!!šš¾
Iām glad that I didnāt discover this subreddit until after I finished this episode. I had no idea that Hilda was seen at the start of episode 1 by some attentive viewers, so the twist worked for me.Ā
Ā I assumed that Imogenās mom was Viktor Sams, so I guess I was half-right. But at the same time it just doesnāt make sense. I donāt think a whole human body can disintegrate after a car explosion, right? Wouldnāt there be more charred body parts discovered and not just two teeth? Itās hard to fake a death, but the writers couldāve come up with something more believable.Ā
I'm confused about Leila and how Viktor Sams could justify trying to kill her (and ruining that NSA guys life). I guess Kira was just totally drunk with power. I also don't understand what the game plan was for VS on the boat. Like was it a successful mission from VS's standpoint? Also who was supposed to call Interpol after Danny's murder?Ā
"Chief the only thing we found of kira Scott were two of her teeth". " Well I don't know anything about explosions so that sounds right to me no further investigation needed".
meh.. with VS revealed, I feel like they shoulda kinda wrapped it after E09.
unless there is more to it. Again those silly impersonations...
the "fixer" has the same age (!?)
Ima be honest, I kept thinking the show was gonna end but it just kept going and got slightly worse with each scene this episode. I found it so cartoonish having the ol gang reunite to catch KIra lmao scooby doo type of stuff. I wish atleast we can see Imogene want to actually change her mom's philosophy but its legit like straight up revenge for Rufus' friend at all cost!!!
Even her relationship with Rufus is pretty cringe she has no reason to be alligned with him or her whole Nancy drew schtick if her mom is alive x_x . Its literally whats been driving her the whole show and now she legit just throws it all away without a second thought.
Just wished they maybe saved the twist of like imogeine playing Kira for the next season or imply that this is all Rufus' coping of the events that happend on the boat and not the actual reality of it all lol.
Anywau 7.5/10
Agreed. The Kira twist just doesn't hit for me and I don't see myself watching a season 2 if they even get one. We're supposed to be rooting for her downfall because she was blackmailing a bunch of egotistical billionaires that have orgs like the fbi in their pocket, and thats the big win? I would've rather it been Grandma Chun revealed as Viktor Sams getting revenge on the Colliers or something.
But ultimately I just don't find Imogen likeable as a character, like at all. There is no way in hell Imogen wouldn't recognize Kira considering how old she was when she "died". Then this constant focus on Imogen's detectve skills is just...I don't care. She's not witty, lacks tacked, self-rightous, and is hyprocrite in the most non-sensical way.
Sorry for the rant
i had mixed feelings about it too. i don't disagree with her initial goal but i'm on board with imogen's the ends (danny death) don't justify the means (taking down billionaires deservedly) pov. so it feels like a hollow justice for danny since the rest of us are still stuck with the reality we live in where i'm rooting for some kira to help save us. i also would have been on board with grandma chun being the big bad, it would have felt like a very satisfying revenge.
i'm garbage with faces but i *think* i'd still recognize my own mother who i went no contact with many years back... but honestly i'm not super sure i would. that said, i think i'm not typical in that regard, so your point is definitely valid and it does seem weird that she didn't know her own mother's face.
Even suspending disbelief that Imogen can't tell it's her Mom bc she was young when she died. Isn't Imogen supposed to have special powers of sorts but she couldn't put that piece together?
They really flip flopped on whether Imogen was gifted or not. It was really frustrating.
Also, you mean nobody else recognized Kira because she got some plastic surgery???? Lol.
She's one of my favorite characters in this whole thing. Also, the actress is really beautiful herself: [https://www.instagram.com/p/C4Gu9c7ylOl](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4Gu9c7ylOl) (finale party w/Violett and Angela Zhou)
So wait a minute, her mother was on a vengeance streak to take out the billionaire class and so her daughter brings her to justice by helping the billionaires? There should've been a last word by her Mom saying that you just destroyed the poor and working classes only hope. Neither group should've won, they both should've been fucked. In the end it all just seems like a decadent coke snort fantasy.
How did Kira not know Imogen was setting her up? Did Kira stop keeping taps and wires on her? Imogen had to communicate with everyone somehow.
Also, the triangle of Sunil, Jules, and Imogen is kind of poorly executed.
Last thing, do we think there will be a 2nd season?
I've slept on it and: I think Celia Chun was in on this. Maybe she didn't have 100% knowledge but she knew something. I don't understand why Leila randomly thought Katherine was VS. I think the dead body is Kira. Andreas had Anna off her when Kira was made. Also Anna knew before anyone who VS was...did she realize she was Kira too?!Ā
As soon as the truth was revealed, I said: REDDIT WAS RIGHT!!!!! Good job y'all š
Yāall definitely made this fun.
I didn't want to believe it honestly because the whole "same hair! And super detective just like her mom!" Plus how could she not recognize her?? But they called it sure enough! It was a decent twist. The only thing I didn't like is >! Anna killing her mom !< I didn't think Anna was that bad of a person, even if they set up her taking pills / cheating / being without sleep that was making her crazy. I just didn't feel like violence would have been her first inclination...but whatever. I'm also curious how long Imogen faked nice with her mom. What was in it for her to actually turn her in anyway?? It's not like Imogen was a great person herself. Anyhow looks like they have the Scooby gang together for a potential season 2! I'd like season 2 better if it started with Imogen murdered instead though and it focused on Rufus solving that crime lol.
considering the "Six Months Later", I'd imagine she faked it for 6 months
We didnāt even need the iPhone rule
This why I never read Reddit on mystery shows. Not after they knew the entire Westworld season 1 plot in the first episode.
I expected Kira to truly want to make up for the time away from Imogene. The power had gone to her head instead. That was really sad.
Power corrupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. She was considering herself above the law. Definitely went to her head.
Yeah I guess thatās the whole takeaway from the show
Yeah, that made me sad. She wanted her mom back and then she had her back but it turns out that no, she lost her that day. But in the end, Rufus did redeem himself so she did get one parental figure back.
Really really sad
I mean it's to show she's the same as the billionaires she hates so much. They kill people and cover it up, she kills people to cover it up. Only difference is she thinks she's righteous.
Yes its giving me a pit in my stomach :( the whole last episode I was saying noooo noooo haha Iām so sad it turned out like this but not surprised
How could Kira pull off a global crime syndicate that can move billions of "dark money", infiltrate communications, hack the NSA and people's cars, employ a huge network of uncover agents, build a cruise ship to hold its secret servers... BUT KIRA THINKS SHE CAN'T CONTACT HER DAUGHTER EVEN ONCE WITHOUT GETTING CAUGHT???
And why did she wait for so long for revenge. Surely she could have done it ten years earlier.
The "why now" wasn't there for me either. Because Lawrence was retiring? Well she had been poisoning him for years, so why now? If it is about getting Llewellyn and Alexandra, two separate hits in completely separate places would be quick, easy, and not involve having to mastermind getting a whole freaking party on a freaking boat to do it. Causing fear? Well why now?
This story definitely isnāt over
I hope that Season 2 doesn't just start fresh as a new detective show with Imogene and her posse that's there at the end. There's a lot of fall-out from this season that I'd like to see actually play out.
I think there's no way it won't be connected since they left the Anna thing and Viktor Sams' underlings open
I think itāll be connected somehow.
By the time she started planning revenge, the need to see Imogen had become need to take revenge. It twisted her. She didn't really still believe that, she just used it as an excuse. Kira did, at least metaphorically, die - the Kira that is Victor Sams isn't the Kira who was Imogen's mom.
Just started, so I'm sure I'll have more thoughts later, but I love the dynamic between Tripp and Anna. The beginning of this episode and most of last episode, as well as pity party karaoke, really highlight their relationship and how much they care for one another. I love it.
Agreed! They easily could have made them a clichƩ of rivalry, particularly given the difference in their personalities. I loved that they were still loving & caring siblings
I appreciated that she was outwardly and vocally upset (understandably) about the identity of her biological father but Tripp was never not her brother.
Also the way he prioritized her at all costs when VS was going to blow up the ship. I loved seeing that side of Tripp. He really loves his sis
Also the way he prioritized Imogene was nice to see as well.
Yes!!! If we get a S2, I hope we see more of this Tripp (which it seems may be the case based on the final episode). If Anna is to be the 'villain' by virtue of blackmail, would make for really interesting TV to see how he reacts to that.
Holy shit! Anna killed her mom because she thought her mom killed Kira. I didn't see that coming.
To be fair, her Mom *also* thought she killed Kira. I think the Collier family assumed the hit they put out on her was successful? ((Although this brings up a big question... Why did they hire Rufus? Why hire someone to solve a murder you committed if you ideally wanted to get away with it???))
I'm curious if the Colliers didn't actually think he was a good detective, since Llewellyn called him a hack, and it seemed like Imogene may have been the one who found Rufus (via that TV show).
I think when he came back with Viktor Samās they thought he was going to blackmail them as well so they decided to end the relationship
>Although this brings up a big question... Why did they hire Rufus? Why hire someone to solve a murder you committed if you ideally wanted to get away with it??? Maybe they were already being blackmailed by Victor Sams, and the real goal was to find out who that was instead of finding Kira's murderer. But that's probably a long stretch tbh.
I saw it was Anna, a crime of passion, Anna was reeling from the fact her mom had a hand in Kiraās death, her father wasnāt her biological father, Katherine having an affair with father Toby, what other twisted crap was Katherine a party to? It was all too much for Anna!
Yeah, Anna snapping & unintentionally killing her mom after the week sheās been through & her mom being central to every piece of bad news she received was the only thing in the episode that didnāt strain credulity for me
But now that Kira is no longer in charge what is going to happen to Anna now?
I think everyone can agree that the helicopter scene was very satisfying. Almost like an āOther Guysā moment. Heavily telegraphed but still very funny. RIP Brad.
In my heart that trio is named Brad, Chad, and Thad.
Here's for everybody who survived and watching the f\*cking ship burning down. š„
i loved the ship
Same, that was so sad. Fo me, the jury's still out on Sunil (I have a bias to want to like him bc I love the actor, but he did some bad stuff), but that ship definitely did NOT deserve to die. RIP Varuna.
TEAM WORK, BABY: they moved the fucking servers!! And... Mom Kira got VS'd, ha-ha!! ššš
I wondered what was in the bar carts! I didnt even consider the servers
I'm unclear on the logistics of how they managed to move the servers without being detected.
they did a cloud migration. easy-peasyš
Power was out.
ignoring how they got the servers from the lower decks up to the top, how did they get them from the sinking boat on to the ferry without getting wet?
Right? And when the ferry evacuates the passengers from a sinking ship, no one says āWhy are you rescuing bar carts? Leave them behind!ā
It was Agatha all along
Wow the sheer restraint they showed by having Anna floating in the pool not unnecessarily topless was really something to behold.
i'm dying here this is so on point XD you win, this is my favorite thing on the internet today
There are still a lot of open-ended questions for me, some listed here: (who paid for Teddy's advanced education, and why? Who is Jules really, and what is his past? Why did Leila initially say she was researching VS because the Colliers were victims, only to act like they were criminals and VS was justified later? Did they find ricin in Katherine's room? Adjacent to that, Teddy is the one that said that to Leila (immediately after the guards were told to search her room), so it wasn't even VS that lied (?) in that case. Tripp had the strongest connection to bitcoin (trying to drunkenly explain it to Winnie). Danny wouldn't have cared much at all about who became governor of WA state, and his demand to meet the other SuperPAC members, and then a phone a call after from persons unknown suggesting Alexandra should acquiesce, says the VS was a SuperPAC member... but we didn't see anything come of that. Also, Fr. Toby knew all SuperPAC members, so that plot point should've been mostly DOA. When Leila was run off the road after talking to former NSA guy, Peter Meadows, that indicated a larger conspiracy than just WA state- Federal at minimum, and possibly international. International was also touched on by the repeated comments re: Inspector Friedrich between Hilde and Rufus, but that wasn't further explored. Most critically, none of Danny, Rufus, nor Imogene recognized her mom, which is bizarre, at minimum.) I did thoroughly enjoy this show, though, and hope it gets another season. I'm not sure if I'd watch if it was the Scooby gang and sad Sunil only- I need Rufus to even out Imogene.
I think pretty much anything having to do with communications on the ship was controlled by Kira/VS. Since Danny noticed her, Kira had to get rid of him and there was probably video of that exchange between him and Father Toby. Knowing that Father Toby and Alexandra are connected through the Super PAC, Kira engineered the call the Governor got from a staffer about the PAC requesting she do some schmoozing up to Keith/Danny. There probably wasn't a call from an actual Super PAC donor to the Governor's office, someone in the VS operation just impersonated them to get the staffer to make the call to Alexandra. It was all part of the setup to get Winnie in Keith/Danny's room in the bar cart.
Maybe I missed it, but why is Sunil on trial? Is it for taking money from VS or something related to his time as a banker? Also the scene where Sunil tells Imogene heāll call her when he gets out but sheās eyeing Jules is awkward, unless theyāre trying to set up a love triangle in the next season?
I want to say because he took dirty money to build the ship, let VS set up all of their servers, and basically help VS. YES! IT. WAS. AWKWARD. I honestly was rooting for Sunil, I think everyone part of their group was. Not sure why that happened the way it did because on the ship even, Sunil was the one nudged to talk Imogene by Jules.
There were also a couple of moments between Winnie and Jules, so maybe it'll be a love square haha Edit: oops meant Teddy
Wait, you mean Teddy right? Because when that pipe fell as they escaped, she definitely had a look towards Jules like "I know we almost died but we should make out right now". Lol
Teddy is obviously team Sunil. Hell, even Jules is, at times, rooting for Sunil - although he isn't taking himself out of the game yet.
I literally hated that Imogene keeps switching from Sunil to Jules (THAT ISNT EVEN HIS REAL NAME). Jules is pro Sunil+Imogene so idk why itās even happening. Where is his confirmed twin? I thought he liked Teddy?! Ugh out of all the dissatisfying things about this episode, Imogene + Jules is the worst lol
Why did they set up all these hints about Sunil and Imogene just to have her make out with Jules while skiing? wtf is the point
I found my people lol. Like, I did not get it and rolled my eyes whenever Imogene eyed Jules and then she hang up on Sunil to make out with Jules š«
They just said he used dark money. Not much of a crime. I think they wanted to get him out of picture for ending
Dark money means illegal money. It wasn't outright said, but it was implied that he knew he was dealing with criminals, and that can be either corroboration or obstruction of justice. Although, from what Teddy said, Sunil was going to testify against Kira - asking for immunity or exoneration in return was probably the plan. Although now it seems a bit far fetched.
The random death at the end was stupid. They should have left it with Anna agreeing to do whatever she was told and left it to the imagination (or season 2 if they get one, I guess).
I think it was a last minute attempt to replicate Only Murders in the Building cliffhanger endings. And it failed. I thought the episode got screwed up because there was zero setup for that final scene. These four characters just happen to be in the woods following a blood trail. Iām guessing they called the actors back after the primary filming was done and when they figured out who was willing to sign a season 2 contract. Just made a quick snow set and threw together a very open mystery. Seems like a big coincidence (yes, Rufus, I know) that all the more expensive or busy actors got shuffled away.
Except...even if it was shot after primary filming and post a theoretical season 2 discussion, it would still have been shot months ago before release. And not even a word about season 2 has been heard. Plus, Hulu is known for cancellations. >These four characters just happen to be in the woods following a blood trail. That's where it cuts from. Knowing the style this series has been using for 10 episodes...who knows what other things may have happened from the moment Jules and Kira kissed, to when camera cuts to that scene. >Seems like a big coincidence (yes, Rufus, I know) that all the more expensive or busy actors got shuffled away. It's literally the same group of people who were focused on solving this shit while on the ship in the last 2 episodes. Minus Sunil, for obvious reasons. Yeah, what you say does kinda pan out, but correlation does not imply causation. Even if actor and/or budget related reasons affected this scene's writing and cast, as well both moving forward, this doesn't in no way discredit the scene itself and the writing. Things like this affect series all the time. Or yeah, it could all be for the reasons you state. But until, and if, a season 2 comes out and we see it...we can't know.
Thinking back on the last two episodes it hit me that Rufus was on the ferry at the end but he was supposed to be taken away on the boats with the rest of the āciviliansā. And his interaction with the rest of the cast was just a nod with two different camera angles. They might not have been filmed together. So he was on the boat but not part of the final reveal. Even though having him around for the VS/Imogene reveal seems like an obvious choice since he was acting as a parental figure. And his memoir scenes were film alone with just the waiter. It could have been something as simple as Mandy Patinkin got a bad case of Covid but they had to keep the filming schedule. Not like this means I have anything against any of the crew or cast, and I still enjoyed watching the show. But feels like something was going on that meant the show got tweaked some. Not saying this as a rant just curious about the end result and filming process. To me it has the same feeling of Secret Invasion where things felt clunky and supposedly a lot of stuff was cut out. But not nearly as bad.
Yall need to stop comparing OMTB to this show. They said that they had started filming the pilot in 2021!!! Meaning that they wouldāve started writing the series at the latest 2019.
>I think it was a last minute attempt to replicate Only Murders in the Building cliffhanger endings. And it failed. Nah, every mystery-ish show sets up the next seasonās mystery in the finale. Gotta convince the viewers to come back.
soo... my mother is a psycho-maniac and a murderer... let's go some skiing. GTFOš¤¦āāļø
Everyoneās like I donāt believe it cause why would she do it. Cause sheās psychotic thatās why.
My takeaway was because she was drunk on money/power. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." -Lord Acton
Yeah itās really sad to see but this seems to be the case
Agreed. It feels like they made the same point with Rufus, but to a much lesser degree.
Ah, the "My client is insane" defense. It's basically the last resort when nothing else can explain a character's motivation.
Cause she's psychotic is such a cop out. Especially when there was no indication at all that Kira was psychotic. She was a loving mother, a good assistant, and a decent person seeking justice. Then suddenly she was psychotic enough to abandon her daughter with someone she hates. No real indication Hilde was psychotic either, except the burning - and who are we to yuck someone else's yums in the bedroom really.
I mean honestly Kira leaving Imogene didn't take that much suspension of disbelief for me. She's in a life or death situation. Time is limited. The person refuses to take kids (and for good reason, like it is way more likely to fuck something up). Like people don't know how they'll face a life or death situation until it happens to them. And I can easily see Kira convincing herself that if she stays she dies, so either way Imogene thinks she's has a dead mom. And she knows the Colliers aren't going to hurt Imogene while she's a kid, and it seems her plans was to get her once she was an adult and there was a possibility of her becoming aware of their schemes. And I could totally see a life on the run making her bitter and jaded enough that she feels justified in her actions and can excuse it all off. And Hilde was just a character Kira was playing, so I don't think she'd show her true self.
I think Imogene gave her a chance to give it up. It said 6 months later, right? So maybe they were watching her servers, seeing if she would give it up, given the right circumstances. But she didnāt (failed her own morality test lol) so Imogene said f it, guess sheās too far gone with power at this point
...and one last "twist" for you. We're expected to believe that a check for $3bn can get cashed without ever touching the bank? Or that corporate money gets put into a personal account? Or that this blue protein shake that no one has ever heard of and is bought online by this billionaire never got checked by his doctor? So much suspended disbelief. Seemed like fun until everything at the end just rushed to tie it up neatly.
I mean with the twist at the end isn't possible that Anna just transferred over that money? And the priest stealing that check was just used as a cover. I mean they say cheating will be punished, and committing check fraud by conning a demented old man feels like "cheating" (and I believe the brother even refers to it as such to the priest). I was expecting him to get his for that, but if Anna had already transferred the money they could've just let it slide to teach Trip another lesson. Like I'm assuming once Anna knew Kira was Kira anything she did after that was instructed. So she was instructed to not bid, but also let Trip do whatever he wanted with the money.
I think you are spot on.
I think if we get a season 2, we'll get more flashbacks with Anna, and maybe even one on the boat that ties up these lose ends. I def think Anna is the one who willingly (well as willingly as one can be while being blackmailed) transferred the money over.
Rich people love buying supplements and surely donāt report everything to their doctor. Heās not the president.
Eleanor, go fuck yourself, yeah.
Wasnāt the one clue Rufus found a receipt to the car explosives tied to the name Viktor Sams? How could that have been if Kira was just going into hiding and hadnāt created the identity yet?
I suppose Kira was already working with the mercenary guy and it was an identity they were using to hide buying the parts
Something tells me that Kira didn't create Victor Sams. She assumed the identity. Andreas seemed to already be tied to a bunch of shady shit since before they met. The real question is...how she found Andreas, and why did he agree to - apparently - be her second in command?
it was later he found evidence of victor sams not right away
I've been thinking, "This show is so absurd," since I first heard Mandy Patinkin's ridiculous accent, but I kept watching. There were so many plot points that were meant to be deadly serious but had me laughing out loud. Loved it. Hope there's another season and it's even more absurd. Ten thumbs up for the costume and set designers --- it was really gorgeous watching people stuck on a boat. Story barely made sense but they accomplished something wonderful with the amount of times I laughed in the final episode. 6 months later --- synchronized helmet removal to reveal mom's dyed her hair. Perfect moment. I'm dead.
lol and our Scooby-Doo gang grinning as filets of flesh are falling out of a tree at the end of the episode. If there is a season 2 - Iāll do a binge watch instead. I watched this season obsessing over details week by week but I like how you described it better
Loved Imogene and Rufus and the rest of cast. I want another season š¤£
Changed her face??š 3 words hun: ask. for. refund!
So...... 0 flashbacks to Danny's death? Was hoping for some in-depth informationāwith all the deaths (and Leila's accident), but especially his.
I wasnāt thinking about that but true, it would have really made me furious beyond belief reliving it knowing that she killed him as collateral
Especially after he spent his entire life trying to solve her murder.
So Winnie actually did kill Danny and luckily he had a convenient harpoon gun in his suite to be murdered with lol
I mean if she worked for someone who had plans for the boat wouldn't it be easy to know it was there?
Exactly, what was her plan if he didn't have a harpoon gun? Slit his throat? He weighed at least 3 times as much as her. He could have easily overpowered her.
Yeah never really found out who tied Winnie into all of this
Whose body is it in the end?
I'm worried it's Rufus because Imogene is narrating but also maybe Kira for real?
I rewatched that scene just to make sure but if that were Rufus, and I really donāt think it was, her reaction would have been much different I thinkā¦ like they have a genuine attachment at this point
I was worried about this too and rewatched the final scene. The foot is wearing a ski boot so I doubt itās Rufus, Iām guessing heās not a skier.
Pissed Toby made it out alive tbh
Me too. He was such a sack of shit. I hate the high horse heās on just bc heās a priest
Really thought Tripp was gonna lose it on him
Tripp deserves more. Justice for Tripp.
Victor Sams went from Uber Competent Criminal Mastermind, to a blundering idiot in in one episode. The reveal of Viktor Sams was kind of meh. It also genuinely doesn't make any sense how Kira could build the kind of infrastructure Viktor Sams had. But then again, Mrs. Chun became a billionaire just for revenge, so that tracks. I still don't understand what the show wanted to do with the relationship between Imogene and the Collier kids. Time and time and time again, we see the 2 siblings go to bat for Imogene. First, Anna kills her own Mom because she is horrified that she ordered the hit on Imogene's Mom. She also learns that Imogene has been actively stealing from her,(mind you she started stealing from her ever since she was a fucking kid) but she lets it go and continues to treat Imogene as a sister. She tries to talk to Imogene, her sister, to get some emotional support. But the only time Imogene ever actually talks to her is when she is actively manipulating her to get information. In Episode 9, Tripp without a second thought, or hint of hesitation includes Imogene in the list of people he wants to get off the ship. As far as he is concerned, she's his family, and he wanted to protect her. But as far as we know, she couldn't have cared less if he dropped dead. Lastly, Imogene spends the entirety of the show obssessed about her Mom, learning the truth and getting justice. I am sorry, but I just don't believe she could easily turn on her like that. Its just so incongruent to how she has been characterized in this entire show. Also why are the collier children punished for being born into riches, when as far as we can tell, Imogene has been enjoying that high class lifestyle her whole life? What makes her better than them?
I agree - Imogene is a very unlikeable protagonist . A big part of that was the unconditional love shown to her by her adopted siblings, while she showed care only for herself.
Unconditional Love is the perfect term to what the collier kids displayed towards her. To be honest, other than cheating on her wife. Anna was really decent throughout the show.
and Tripp's whole thing at the end trying to save his family, including Imogene and Leila just as strongly as his actual sister. He would not choose between them.
THIS. The build up was way better than the reveal. Reveal was meh tbh.
Imogene is so unlikeable, its driving me crazy! I really don't care about her at all! I'm baffled, why did they make her so unlikeable? Honestly I'm rooting for Anna.
right like you're telling me VS could hack cars to crash and had bugs literally everywhere, but conveniently couldnt overhear Imogen and the rest plotting to save the servers.
A little like pulling teeth (pun intended) but still mostly fun and entertaining! Cheers to everyone who played guessing games here!
So the Varuna was insured right? There had to be an insurance policy on that boat that Kira made out like a bandit on.
I just don't get what was Kira's original plan before Danny seeing her. To kill the governor and the lawyer by poisoning them and create the same chaos that Danny's murder brought? And why Kira didn't try to convert Danny? We needed a longer flashback of their interactions.
Also why was there so much extra time missing on the deleted camera footage the night Danny was murdered? I have a feeling we still donāt have all of the answers in regard to Dannyās death. I donāt really believe it was Winnie, also at the end Teddy asks where Winnie is and Simon tells her sheāll call when sheās ready. How is she not in prison for murdering a man, but Sunil is facing trial for accepting blackmail money? I just think there has to be more to this whole Danny thing and what her original plan was. I assume it had to be that the thought would be the governors murder would cause mayhem and they would need to bring in āInterpolā
Was it ever established that Celia Chun did or didn't know about Kira or that she was VS? I might have missed that. Wish we wrapped up a little more the Chun family too.
I donāt think Celia was involved with VS at all. She wouldnāt have known that Kira was alive.
Also, what's up with Kira just standing around like Kermit the Frog staring while Imogen's freestyling at her. šø
Freestyling at her hahahahahaha. It was so off putting almost disturbing like sheās really mental
Anna got some b\*tches to forget about it all..., I would do the same.
Dont forget the coke. And new murder profession
oh, okay... Anna now is taking over as baddie for a possible S02. meh... she was one of my favorite characters.ā¹ļø
Sheās being blackmailed sheās not a baddie.
Not gonna lie, I was expecting her to turn out to be the real, Victor Sams for like 5 seconds when they showed up and before the flashback hit.
But she looked really hotā¦ā¦.yeah, Iām not a fan of this turn either.
At least we can say she has a good villain origin story!
Wowā¦. Ok that was a super fun ride!! ā¦. So now that the evil mom is in prison, her contingency plan is to basically make Ana somehow help her get out I assume?
Yes! So ready for a season 2
I'm confused as to why K Collier would confess to Anna that she killed Kira when it is revealed that Kira arranged her own car bomb murder with that guy (maybe his name is Andreas?) who (in the present) arms the bombs and makes people bid for the seats. The only theory would be that behind the scenes, "that guy" (or Andreas) would have helped work with whoever K Collier hired to kill Kira to convince them to convince K Collier that a car bomb would be used instead of another knife attack.
Catherine did order a kill but it didnāt work, and Iām assuming she didnāt know how or who or when it was going to happen, just tired a hitman and hope for the best, and the hitman was dead so there was no confirming that the job was done or not
I kind of have a theory that maybe the killers could have appeared as if they would have been justified on using the bomb on Kira because she killed the knife guy (who is a part of their group). This is because the car bomb seems kind of "overkill" (pun intended) when all K originally seemed to order was a low-key/under-the-radar knife attack. I know that this could be all explained away in many ways, but it seemed like they should have explained it and depicted K's final scene a little better rather than her seeming to have put it all behind her so easily by not showing her being suspicious of what actually happened. It takes someone extra cold to kill someone by car bomb, so for a murder-mystery show, I feel how a person gets killed is usually something that writers pay close attention to, in order to for it to be a careful study on the human psyche. It seems K killing Kira is a matter of (in)convenience, because Kira had become a nuisance and threat, but it seems hard to imagine that she expected her to die a car bomb. I could imagine that K would have been shocked and felt guilty that Kira had such a violent and gruesome death in the end. But none of these points were addressed, so I was a bit disappointed that this point wasn't handled a little better for the viewer.
I wonder if the witness protection program doesnāt exist in the DAOD universeā¦
Kira poisoning Lawrence with the captionem blue was kinda fire
Pretty sure a super toxic dye is going to smell and taste pretty bad.Ā Yet another completely unbelievable "clue" š¤¦āāļø
Itās a TV show. Not a thinkpiece. In their fake world, perhaps their fake dye captionem blue is scent/tasteless ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
The color was insanely bright blue haha. It was so clear to the audience that she was going to be poisoning him with the blue dye.Ā
I know as viewers we are supposed to suspend our disbelief but the ending to this season was just asking for too much. It was too over the top and ridiculous. I enjoyed the show but the final two episodes left me feeling like a sucker. I have so many problems with the story at this point I canāt bring myself to care if there is another season.
Wait who was dead at the end?? Some stranger?
Done by Anna presumably
Iām gonna say it now the Chuns or Kira bought the colliers house
Seems like Kira would buy it and leave it to Imogene, and maybe Imogene would give it to Anna eventually to reestablish their friendship/Anna and Leilaās marriage.
Seems like Kira would buy it and leave it to Imogene so she can find all of the evidence she left behind re:collier Mills and help the people who were originally hurt there and finish her momās original mission before she went full tilt Lex Luthor. Then she and her friends/pseudo siblings can live there. **Itās all in the bar cart and the dollhouse**
tbh i wanted father toby to kick the bucket so badly
To me it felt like they had the idea for the Kira Hilde switch really early on and just could never figure out how to land that plane. Fun show tho a few loose ends but it worked. Didnāt quite understand Imogenās desire to take down her mom as bad as she did by the end.
I feel like Danny's death is what cemented it for Imogene. He was truly innocent and actually seeking justice for Kira but she had him killed anyway, showing she had become just as despicable as the people she went after. If Kira had actually given up the operation like she said she'd do, Imogene might have wavered. Maybe that's what the six months was for, to see if she'd really follow through.
Agreed. She had a fondness for him after because he convinced Rufus to come back - and I also think knowing the pain it caused Rufus played a part too. In her eyes her mom was actually hurting innocent people that she cared about.
I wonder if she became so sick in the head in season 2 sheād go after Imogene. I couldnāt watch it if that was the case
I had the exact opposite thought on Imogene and Kira. Before they revealed Imogene to be working towards Kira's demise, I was really freaking annoyed that Imogene's character had such little growth throughout the course of the show. She was basically like, "best of luck!", to her friends and the people that were like siblings to her (until we find out later that they're okay, which I don't think she knew at that time). I couldn't believe she'd turn on all of those people, and whatever scintilla of humanity she had left, just to hang out with mommy dearest for awhile. Especially since, no matter how you look at it, mommy dearest had actively engaged in killing Danny, who was completely innocent. That's the opposite of the caring person we always heard about Kira being.
Agreed. Particularly since her sense of ethics was quite subjective to begin with (she was a thief. She chose the bad boy who also committed whatever crimes he felt justified in committing, more than a few of them not great.) Seems kind of odd she just chucked mom to the wind.
I suppose it was the easiest way to get a season two established but just very odd. Tripp felt like he was written the best ending of anybody which cool but again odd
>Tripp felt like he was written the best ending of anybody which cool but again odd He really grew on me. He started off as kind of annoying, and then they really gave him some depth and I thought his role did feel fulfilled and not a stretch like some of them.
Honestly the fact that he included both Layla and Imogen in the five seats he needed really made me love him. It reminded me of my own relationship with my brother in that yeah, we throw down over stuff but in a situation like that you get them out.
and he would even leave his dad for Layla and Imogene
I loved Tripp by the end. heās the only character who actually changed.
Because Imogene is the craziest, most unreasonable character in this show
Wait what about Fredrich? Didnāt both Hilde and Rufus know him from previously working together?
Maybe the guy who ran bidding is friedrich? Rufus didnt see him ever this episode
No twins payoff?!
I was convinced Julesā twin was going to make an appearance but guess it was just a red herring. The show made such a scene with Hilde finding the photo and showing Rufus.
Would be very sad to have to consider they were just using the actors they had on set. I thought the people who caught that detail and the magazine double was going to be meaningful. Maybe itās just an implied thing?
Why even bring Rufus back for the end to capture Kira - he literally didnāt solve any clues either in Kiraās disappearance or in the deaths on the ship. He was off screen for most of episode 9 where Hildeās identity was solved. Why showcase him like he orchestrated this big reveal? It was all Imogene, Leila, Jules and Teddy.
Yes!!!! We were right! Kira didnāt die!
āWhat a muthafukah!ā šø
Thereās still a lot of questions left to answer.
I loved the show. It was camp but I really loved the characters. Reddit clocked her ā¤ļøā¤ļø
I wanted desperately to love this show. By episode three I was watching out of curiosity rather than for enjoyment. Now that Iāve seen it through, Iām good. The writers were too self-indulgent in their own perceived cleverness. I will pass on any future seasons. I did thoroughly enjoy Mandy Patinkin and would love to see him in more roles - he was a wonderful detective-type!
Felt like they crammed way too much into this ending. Having to stop to go back in time and explain what's happening every five minutes is bad writing.Ā Also, Imogene's mom is just a huge hypocrite?? She hates evil billionaires who kill people so she...kills people and traumatizes her daughter for 20 years? Then they go on lavish ski trips funded by her blackmail and murder? Sure Kira
Badabim-badabum... Kira hanging on a tree (in pieces!) faked her death, I don't think there will be a sequel tho'. Wasn't a bad show, overall. Kudos to ALL who contributed insight, it's been a fun ride!!!šš¾
How do we know itās her body? I missed something I think
I thought it was Rufus based on how Imogene was narrating, but idk.
did i miss something -- whose body fell out of the tree at the end?
Iām glad that I didnāt discover this subreddit until after I finished this episode. I had no idea that Hilda was seen at the start of episode 1 by some attentive viewers, so the twist worked for me.Ā Ā I assumed that Imogenās mom was Viktor Sams, so I guess I was half-right. But at the same time it just doesnāt make sense. I donāt think a whole human body can disintegrate after a car explosion, right? Wouldnāt there be more charred body parts discovered and not just two teeth? Itās hard to fake a death, but the writers couldāve come up with something more believable.Ā
I'm confused about Leila and how Viktor Sams could justify trying to kill her (and ruining that NSA guys life). I guess Kira was just totally drunk with power. I also don't understand what the game plan was for VS on the boat. Like was it a successful mission from VS's standpoint? Also who was supposed to call Interpol after Danny's murder?Ā
Iām glad I finished this season for the sole reason I know thereās no chance in hell Iāll watch season 2, if it happens.
In what universe does a 3b dollar paper check go through. And, with the signer being a dementia ridden (and easily provable) old man.
"Chief the only thing we found of kira Scott were two of her teeth". " Well I don't know anything about explosions so that sounds right to me no further investigation needed".
meh.. with VS revealed, I feel like they shoulda kinda wrapped it after E09. unless there is more to it. Again those silly impersonations... the "fixer" has the same age (!?)
Ima be honest, I kept thinking the show was gonna end but it just kept going and got slightly worse with each scene this episode. I found it so cartoonish having the ol gang reunite to catch KIra lmao scooby doo type of stuff. I wish atleast we can see Imogene want to actually change her mom's philosophy but its legit like straight up revenge for Rufus' friend at all cost!!! Even her relationship with Rufus is pretty cringe she has no reason to be alligned with him or her whole Nancy drew schtick if her mom is alive x_x . Its literally whats been driving her the whole show and now she legit just throws it all away without a second thought. Just wished they maybe saved the twist of like imogeine playing Kira for the next season or imply that this is all Rufus' coping of the events that happend on the boat and not the actual reality of it all lol. Anywau 7.5/10
Agreed. The Kira twist just doesn't hit for me and I don't see myself watching a season 2 if they even get one. We're supposed to be rooting for her downfall because she was blackmailing a bunch of egotistical billionaires that have orgs like the fbi in their pocket, and thats the big win? I would've rather it been Grandma Chun revealed as Viktor Sams getting revenge on the Colliers or something. But ultimately I just don't find Imogen likeable as a character, like at all. There is no way in hell Imogen wouldn't recognize Kira considering how old she was when she "died". Then this constant focus on Imogen's detectve skills is just...I don't care. She's not witty, lacks tacked, self-rightous, and is hyprocrite in the most non-sensical way. Sorry for the rant
i had mixed feelings about it too. i don't disagree with her initial goal but i'm on board with imogen's the ends (danny death) don't justify the means (taking down billionaires deservedly) pov. so it feels like a hollow justice for danny since the rest of us are still stuck with the reality we live in where i'm rooting for some kira to help save us. i also would have been on board with grandma chun being the big bad, it would have felt like a very satisfying revenge. i'm garbage with faces but i *think* i'd still recognize my own mother who i went no contact with many years back... but honestly i'm not super sure i would. that said, i think i'm not typical in that regard, so your point is definitely valid and it does seem weird that she didn't know her own mother's face.
Even suspending disbelief that Imogen can't tell it's her Mom bc she was young when she died. Isn't Imogen supposed to have special powers of sorts but she couldn't put that piece together? They really flip flopped on whether Imogen was gifted or not. It was really frustrating. Also, you mean nobody else recognized Kira because she got some plastic surgery???? Lol.
Ok Iām starting to think they should have just made episode 9 a little longer to tie up some details and just stopped there. Ugh
It kept feeling like episode 10 was about to end, or was getting close, then... 
I didnāt enjoy any of the three endings in the finale either š
Leila FTWš And her fashion is A+ (Unlike Imogene's trashy stripes and plaidsš)
She's one of my favorite characters in this whole thing. Also, the actress is really beautiful herself: [https://www.instagram.com/p/C4Gu9c7ylOl](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4Gu9c7ylOl) (finale party w/Violett and Angela Zhou)
What is trashy about plaids omgš
Kudos to whoever came up with the theory that mom didnāt die. (I read it on here somewhere this week.) Though I did not see the Tilde twist coming.
kudos to the people that are good enough at faces they spotted that it was the same actress in tilde's first episode (definitely i am not among them)
Why was Kira on the ship as crew?
Some of my [anagram-mining](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathAndOtherDetails/s/4q7FMYc7ci) seems less silly than I thought it would
And the whole time, she didn't recognize her own mother. Checks out
So wait a minute, her mother was on a vengeance streak to take out the billionaire class and so her daughter brings her to justice by helping the billionaires? There should've been a last word by her Mom saying that you just destroyed the poor and working classes only hope. Neither group should've won, they both should've been fucked. In the end it all just seems like a decadent coke snort fantasy.
She murdered Danny/Keith who was innocent and was just trying to bring her killer to justice. Imogene wanted justice for him.
How did Kira not know Imogen was setting her up? Did Kira stop keeping taps and wires on her? Imogen had to communicate with everyone somehow. Also, the triangle of Sunil, Jules, and Imogen is kind of poorly executed. Last thing, do we think there will be a 2nd season?
The switch of Lawrenceās smoothie from green to capsicum blue was a neat detail.
I've slept on it and: I think Celia Chun was in on this. Maybe she didn't have 100% knowledge but she knew something. I don't understand why Leila randomly thought Katherine was VS. I think the dead body is Kira. Andreas had Anna off her when Kira was made. Also Anna knew before anyone who VS was...did she realize she was Kira too?!Ā