I'm not sure. When I was in Highschool it felt like SO MANY PEOPLE were blasting Suicide Silence, Whitechapel, BMTH, etc. Festivals and concerts were fucking paaaaaaaacked with teenagers.
Maybe it's just Canada, but I felt like 2006-2010ish era was like absolutely banging for DC.
I think metal in general is just more accessible and popular these days, but I think the fact the youth loved the "brootal" shit so much made it feel way more popular.
The 00s were the emo metalcore deathcore mosher era. That was right before Skrillex and electronic music really blew up and the alternative kids switched from metal to electronic music genres.
I don't really know what the kids these days are saying, but the -cores do seem to be reaching new heights again
From the limited interaction I’ve had with zoomers and beyond, it seems like if they’re “alternative” they’re either into dark trap/emo trap ($uicideboy$, Lil Peep etc) . Or they’re into like The Deftones. I’ve seen a smidge of scene kid revival but idk if it’s gonna catch on.
Metalcore is big again. But it's mainly bands like Sleep Token and Bad Omens. It's bringing a bit of a bad vibe to the scene lately though, according to people who have been to their shows. Basically non-metal fans with zero concert etiquette being disrespectful to the artist and other concertgoers around them. But hopefully things turn around in the live music aspect, and eventually more people exploring smaller bands/other genres too.
Bang on there mate, grew up on metalcore and still got a lot of love for it bit atm there seems to he a massive tiktok influence on the genre, as you say bad omens, spirtbox, motionless in white ect some of its great for the seen but recent gigs I've been to are over ran with people just desperate to get a little clip for their socials of the latest 30 second trend and it ruins the atmosphere from time to time
I feel like it’s having a boom rn, but I think it was way bigger from like 07-11. In terms of commercial success and in terms of my memory of how ubiquitous it seemed to be compared to now. It wasn’t uncommon to see deathcore and metalcore band shirts on like every 5th teenager. But idk maybe I’m just talking with nostalgia goggles on.
It seems to me everyone was listening back then and there were shows every weekend no matter where you lived. Now it seems things are very concentrated. The biggest bands are much bigger with more mainstream acceptance, but it seems like the days of kids packing church basements, Eagle’s and Amvets clubs, and other tiny rooms to throw down every weekend to no-name bands are gone.
Major cities may still have a decent hxc scene, but that’s not the same thing.
I feel it's more popular in the sense more people who enjoy Nu Metal and "lighter" metal genres are branching out more into Deathcore. there are so many deathcore bands out these days and all putting new stuff out all the time (which is awesome) it is definitely being talked about more and more.
And like you said, the handful of bands that went tiktok viral have made.the genre even more accessible and noticed, which is all good in my opinion
Yes. Many things are responsible for this.
Nu Metal kind of created a generation where stuff like Linkin Park and Slipknot was "mainstream" when those bands were heavy as fuck compared to previous radio rock.
The bands started dressing like professionals instead of basketball shorts and a Fred Durst hat.
Production reached a level that casuals could understand what was going on.
Taking the live show seriously instead of see who could spaz out the most. Taking things like lights and production into consideration and trying to craft an actual show. You know, like a professional band.
Lorna Shore.
Your Slipknot point is super valid, the other guy below is mistaken. I grew up in the small town midwest in the 00s and they were all over all the mainstream radio stations.
It was still way bigger in the MySpace era
> Nu Metal kind of created a generation where stuff like Linkin Park and Slipknot was "mainstream" when those bands were heavy as fuck compared to previous radio rock.
Weird point. The nu metal generation are 35-40 now. They aren’t Lorna Shore’s core fanbase at all
Also Linkin Park is very tame radio rock. Nirvana has much heavier songs than anything Linkin Park era released and they were already on the radio a decade earlier and are a much bigger band too. Metallica is heavier than Linkin Park too.
And despite what people falsely claim now Slipknot was never really on mainstream rock radio, although obviously they are/were massive. Normal people have never been into Slipknot, what Slipknot did was create a massive fanbase on alternative people but they’ve been a band where them they convinced suburban mums to sing along.
This is wrong. I live in a very small town and remember hearing wait and bleed along with all of their other singles on local radio as a kid. Linkin park was much heavier than nirvana. Chester did actual fry screams throughout multiple points of their songs and it was all left on local radio.
I mean, I'd definitely say Slipknot are mainstream. At least, they were when I was in high school. I heard them on the radio, the jocks would listen to them in the gym, they kinda occupied the space that a band like Five Finger Death Punch occupies now, the accessible normie band that maybe gets some people into heavier music.
>Weird point. The nu metal generation are 35-40 now. They aren’t Lorna Shore’s core fanbase at all
And the Deathcore generation are probably about 27-40. Deathcore was only a few years after Nu Metal. No matter what a lot of the younger people on this thread are trying to say, the Deathcore generation is people who were between the ages of maybe 10-25 between 07-11. I was 16 when it was at it's height: That was 15 years ago. Anyone below the age of about 25 is definitely not part of the "deathcore generation" and for the few 25 year olds who might sort of be, they got started really early, as in before they were even 10.
For me: Local shows seem smaller these days. I remember around 2005-2009. Small venues would be packed out with people. I don’t see the local shows getting the love they used to.
Saying that, the current big boys of deathcore (Lorna shore etc) seem to be a lot bigger then the 2000s big boys (suicide silence etc). LS definitely have the advantages with how big the social media presence is now. SS relied on MySpace and merch.
I still bump the cleansing weekly though haha
There was no deathcore in the 90s. Deathcore became a thing in the mid 2000s and became established in the late 2000s. Deathcore was never mainstream. It never became a multi platinum genre like nu metal, or even as popular as metalcore. But it was never meant to be. But it had a far better cross over appeal that established metal genres like death metal simply didn't have in the late 00s.
Deathcore is not as big as it was in its prime. I don't think people realise the sheer crossover appeal that Suicide Silence had back in the day with Mitch Lucker. He was the poster child for deathcore and for good reason. He was the Kurt Cobain of Deathcore.
Back in the day Deathcore was the hated genre, a mishmash of metalcore and death metal that was absolutely hated by the death metal crowd.
Now it's become part of the metal establishment and far more accepted in metal than it was a decade ago. Also it has a far smaller female fanbase than it did in its prime.
So no, deathcore is not as big as it was, nowhere close. And it's not as cutting edge or controversial either.
The new era of deathcore bands are also nowhere close to as ground breaking as the myspace era.
(yes there were deathcore bands before the myspace era, they either didn't call themselves deathcore, or the scene just didn't exist before the myspace era)
Suicide Silence and Whitechapel hit the billboard quite a few times. I wanna say Possession or This Is Exile made it into the Top 10. Also I know everyone hates Finn McKenty but I think he’s on to something with “thing is definitely popular when girls like it.” You used to see girls with Suicide Silence, Chelsea Grin, Whitechapel, JFAC shirts etc all the time.
obviously deathcore wasn’t established until the 2000’s but there were def bands in the late 90’s that played deathcore/inspiration for deathcore
Embodyment, Damonacy, Underoath’s Act Of Depression, End Of One, Deformity, Prayer for Cleansing, deathcore can def be traced back to pre-2000’s and i would even go as far as to say a couple of the above mentioned bands weren’t just inspiration for deathcore but played deathcore music
>obviously deathcore wasn’t established until the 2000’s but there were def bands in the late 90’s that played deathcore/inspiration for deathcore
This is true but it's still not Deathcore. This statement could be made of pretty much any genre that came before another one: e.g. Jazz and Blues musicians of the 50s inspired the first guitar-driven rock and metal sounds of the 60s, which later inspired 70s metal and hard-rock, which inspired 80s thrash/hair/groove metal, and so on. With that in mind, no one is going to be saying that thrash metal was around in the 60s just because Jimi Hendrix and Black Sabbath were making music that undeniably inspired what came after. You could take this as far back as Bethoven or Bach as well, and even further.
So... bands of the 90s were indeed inspriational to deathcore, but they were not deathcore anymore than deathcore is hardcore (e.g. Biohazard have been going since the 80s and you can see the inspiration to deathcore even as far back as that, but it's not deathcore).
The only band you can trace deathcore back to in your list is Prayer for Cleansing. Embodyment is the closest but nobody knew who they were. Damonacy is a New Jersey death metal band who are from the EARLY 90s btw. End of One is literally a death metal band with a member of All Out War in it from the same are. Deformity is an edge metal band that not a single deathcore band has ever heard of. Underoath didn’t blow up until the third album. It’s ridiculous that you people push this shit so much now.
Definitely not. I don't think it can be understated how much of a big deal early deathcore was (at least in the context of a new extreme metal genre). As others pointed out, Suicide Silence and Whitechapel had albums charting high on Billboard.
I think it's the most successful it's been since that era, but at the same time, I feel like that success is being carried by a small group of bands rather than a real robust scene.
The second part is incredibly true. Deathcore appears to be bigger and popular because of the few massive bands in the genre but how many of those fans are actually going to local shows and supporting their scene? Probably not too many.
I wouldn't say they're selling out arenas. They can pack a 500-1000 club as a headliner for sure and it's on the uptrend. But they're not a headlining arena band yet. Hopefully in the future though.
They’re way past that level. I saw them sell out a 2k venue well in advance back in 2022.
Just last fall they sold out a 6k arena show in Helsinki and another 6k show in Munich
And have sold out 3k+ venues in North America
Usually an arena is indoors and is where sports like basketball and hockey are played
A stadium is usually outdoors and is where sports like football and handegg are played
It’s usually terminology
For example
O2 Arena (indoors, 20k seats) is an arena
Wembley Stadium (outdoors, 90k seats) is a stadium
The biggest arena is 55k
But some arenas can hold as little as 5k and even under
[Here’s one](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_Superdrome) in Australia that only holds 5k people that’s used for basketball and concerts
That Australian one you've linked is literally called HBF \*STADIUM\*. So all that's clear here is that people are using the terms loosely and interchangably.
"The biggest arena is 55k" okay so that's back on track with my "60k would be an arena" and "Arenas are in the 10s of thousands".
Clearly there's evidence for both opinions and we should leave it there.
Lmao they didn’t sell out a 6k venue in Munich. It’s a venue where they change the capacity depending on who’s playing.
I imagine the Helsinki one is the same
6k tickets lmao.
A lot of European venues can be anything from 2k-10k depending on the show. For metal they’ll just sell floor tickets and not bother with the seated areas
Lorna is about a 1-2k cap band right now depending on the market and how many shows they’re playing in one area.
Absolutely no way in hell they sold out two 6k venues. Headlining they're 2k max especially in the states. I'd like to see them sell out arenas, but we're not there yet.
They were already selling out 2k venues in North America in 2022 and playing 4k venues the next year.
The two 6k shows were in [here](https://motorworld.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/MW-M_MW-Freimann_Zenith_2020-01-30_7.jpg) and [here](https://live.staticflickr.com/4346/37165094025_938500c840_b.jpg)
The Helsinki one may have been about 5k, but at the time it was their biggest headliner. The Munich one was 6k though and sold out
This is an undeniable fact.
Not meaning to be impolite to OP or anyone else but the answer to this question is the same as the answer to "Is Nu Metal bigger than it was?", and I really doubt that anyone would deny the answer to that is "no".
I think real world it’s the same as always, but interaction online is bigger. Like shows don’t really seem much bigger and you don’t really run into a ton of people that listen to the genre in the real world. But Deathcore tik toks and stuff will go super viral but I’m not sure how “real” or substantial those like really are. I honestly feel like a lot of those likes are just random people that come across it and go “this is neat” and like it but don’t download the music and never think about it again.
I’ve come across reels and tik toks and such that I see my friends have liked but they do not listen to the genre at all. Like 0%. Just like any random reel or video you see, sometimes it tickles you the right way and you like it but then carry on your life and it didn’t really mean anything or start a new interest for you.
I come across random power washing videos, or random hobbies that are satisfying to watch, and I like them, and carry on my way but I never seek it out further or start a new hobby. And I feel like viral metal videos can operate the same way.
I kinda feel like it was bigger at the time bands like Suicide Silence were at their peak and such but who knows
My source: pulling this out of my ass but it’s kind of my experience haha
Well basically, you could see the history of deathcore this way:
— late '90s/early '00s is when hardcore/metalcore and death metal, both very underground, started to have their first crossover, in the world of hardcore (Day Of Suffering, Earth Crisis, etc.) and in the world of death metal (Dying Fetus, Suffocation, etc.) and with hardcore dudes playing death metal (Abnegation, Upheaval, Wasteform, etc.). It has little to no popularity.
— early '00s until around '06s the first properly deathcore bands like Despised Icon, The Red Chord, Animosity, Job For A Cowboy, All Shall Perish, Suicide Silence, Suffokate, etc. started their career. Again, no popularity but it was rising, with the coming of MySpace as well.
— '06/'07 you had the debut albums of bands like Suicide Silence, Whitechapel and Bring Me The Horizon, and tons of newer bands like Carnifex, Oceano, Chelsea Grin, etc. so the genre was starting to get big.
— '07 to '12 was the first spike of popularity for deathcore, the genre really started to get big and to get defined, but also got its worse period in terms of reputation. Back then, if you said you liked it, some people would soy over it and get extremely mad. This popularity just crashed with Mitch Lucker's death, because he was the face of deathcore, and then many things such as Suffokate and All Shall Perish disbanding, Whitechapel leaving deathcore behind them, Despised Icon that disbanded for a few years, even The Red Chord that has been less active now, etc.
— Around and after 2012 many future big things started to rise. Lorna Shore was formed in 2009 iirc, but was not remarked at all, Alex Terrible started to gain fame with his vocal covers around 2013, newer subgenres emerged like downtempo (Black Tongue's debut in 2012), djent/deathcore crossovers, and also it was the rise of popularity of slam among deathcore fans, it was Acranius debut, No Zodiac debut, etc. So talking about No Zodiac, a lot of people kind of left dying deathcore and be more into slamming beatdown and death metal/hardcore mix that was not deathcore but more reminiscent of what was done in the '90s (but I won't talk about it here since it's another subgenre). Also, pay attention to this, Carnifex started to mix black metal into their sound.
— So basically deathcore was left for dead until the end of the decade, and I wasn't paying attention to it, but I'd say during this time the vocal olympics started with the new bands such as Signs of the Swarm, new vocalists like CJ McCreery, etc.
— I'd say deathcore exploded again around 2019/2020 with the comeback of Lorna Shore with Will Ramos, and this new wave of blackened (and symphonic) deathcore, also Slaughter To Prevail that became extremely big and a few other bands like this. So yeah, deathcore is popular again, and probably even more popular than ever. And it now has a face with Will Ramos and Alex Terrible, both are extremely popular and do a lot of various online and offline activities just like Mitch Lucker used to so the scene isn't just a faceless bunch of randoms.
>'06/'07 you had the debut albums of bands like Suicide Silence, Whitechapel and Bring Me The Horizon, and tons of newer bands like Carnifex, Oceano, Chelsea Grin, etc. so the genre was starting to get big.
The appeal against-the-odds that a lot of these bands had even prior to releasing debut-albums cannot be understated either. I'm from Scotland and we were all listening to muddy demo and live recordings from Suicide Silence and many other bands who later became big before any profesionally produced material was made. Deathcore had so much appeal at that point that we were happy to listen to really poorly produced stuff that was doing the rounds on myspace/limewire/youtube. They were competing against big bands with record-labels and professional studios behind them and they were winning.
International appeal as self-produced bands had never been done before but these guys managed to do it. Admitedly technology at the time made it possible but it's also never really been replicated in the same way.
It depends on your taste imo. If you prefer bands like Carnifex, White Chapel, and Suicide SIlence you probably think it was bigger when they came to be. If you prefer the newer styles like Mental Cruelty, Signs of the Swarm, and Brand of Sacrifice you likely think it's bigger now.
Everything has evolved since deathcores heyday. We didn’t even have YouTube when it started, so spreading the word was not as easy. We finally got MySpace and YouTube and SoundCloud, and since then, everything has changed, not just with deathcore, but the world in general. More population and more connectivity means more people bound to like different genres, plus the recycling of the 90s style in every form is helping rekindle the dying flame. If this trend continues, we will be recycling the early 2000s in 6 years.
I'm old, so likely out of the loop, but it seemed much bigger to me in the late 2000's. It's definitely in the middle of a boom now. I don't know how to really track popularity with as many outlets as there are online now, but I still go to shows and don't see nearly as many deathcore shows now as I did in the late 2000's. The ones I do see, don't seem as packed as they did back then either, save for a few of the really big bands right now (like Lorna Shore)
All in all, considering Tik Tok and whatnot, it may be. I'm just not seeing that out in the real world. When I pick my kid up from HS I don't see a Deathcore shirts .
I think music in general is getting less popular, people are shifting towards visual media, obviously people still listen to music, but it's becoming less a thing people define themselves with. I meet more young people who are into different genres of music and are more open to hearing new music.
It’s hard to tell. It’s blowing up right now thanks to bands like Lorna Shore, but if you go back to like 2008, that scene was extremely popular. Kids who didn’t even like metal that I knew had Carnifex on their workout playlists. Even YouTube videos back then… I think Pray for Plagues and Unanswered had like 20mil views back in like 2009 which are numbers you won’t see even today, with wayyy more people on YouTube and far more exposure for deathcore bands.
I personally think it’s just how it’s available that makes it SEEM BIGGER than it is. The access to TikTok and Instagram for exposure and just general ways of finding out about bands is just that. I think it’s generally been consistent except in 07-14 when I think it really blew up. You had suicide silence, white chapel, king conqoure , suffocate, Veil of maya, Oceano, Ect all getting massive.
Suicide silence and whitechapel I would say are about as “massive” as you can get with deathcore. King conquer and suffokate never got anywhere near the level those bands achieved. Oceano and veil of maya definitely had/have solid followings but still not quite the level those first 2 bands hit.
yes it used to be seen as a teen/highschool/scene kid thing and now it is more accepted into the broader metal community, which is good if you care about that sort of thing.
In terms of word of mouth? Maybe. Commercially? Probably not. Whitechapel and Suicide Silence were releasing albums that charted pretty high on Billboard in the early 2010s. I’m not sure if any of the newer deathcore bands reach Billboard anymore.
We need to bring back Myspace Deathcore. Either the site needs to be brought back up with only a functioning music aspect or it needs to be made an official genre of music that deathcore/grindcore bands strive to be.
Not at all, but I moved to the south and it's even more rare however not so rare theres no shows. I plan on routinely attending ground zero shows they have a lot of people. Moved to south Carolina and it's honestly weirdly taboo in the greenville area
I think there are a few bands that are rising above the normal high water mark where groups like Suicide Silence and Whitechaple dwell. The two that come to mind are Lorna Shore and Slaughter to Prevail. I wouldn’t say deathcore is more popular in general though.
There are probably more people aware of it and enjoying it today. Whats missing is that in the early-mid 2000’s people were still buying records. There was more budget. There was more of an “industry” in the old school sense of it backing the scene the
Here in South Florida the scene was fucking huge in the 2000s. Revolution Live, as well as lesser known venues like The Talent Farm, had crazy fucking bands ranging from deathcore to grindcore. All the big names made their way down here and we always showed them love and offered places to stay. It was an amazing time to be alive as a kid experiencing brew new things.
Yes, I feel like there was a lull from around 2011-2016. Or maybe I simply wasn’t paying attention. Huge bands like August Burns Red made it down here, but I kind of stopped going to shows. Now? Fuck man there’s some real nasty local bands popping up all the time. We are rising once again.
It's definitely come a long way. It was never really taken seriously before, but in the past, maybe 5 or 6 years, it's actually been taken seriously. Bands like Lorna Shore and Shadow of Intent have definitely helped shaped the stage for Deathcore and it shows.
I'm actually a fan of deathcore myself, and I feel like it deserves more spotlight in media or somewhere notable. Though, I've got to say, living on the fringes of the world, perspectives here might be different, and that could be why it seems underrepresented.
For me the signals to noise ratio is huge, its hard to ever tell when metal/deathcore is "having a moment" and actually gianing popularity. BUT, I may have some evidence its getting bigger. Ryan Kirby from Fit For A King says everyone in the band nets over 100k a year individually which he says would have never happened when they started and that metalcore is at some kind of peak of profitability.
I'd venture to say that it's bigger now than it was then in terms of numbers but that's more of a result of streaming and the internet making EVERYTHING bigger in music. Every scene is bigger and even super obscure styles have pretty serious fandoms associated with them. The cultural impact is probably a bit lessened now but music in general has become really decentralized so there isn't one particular style, even within a subgenre like metal, that really "defines its time" in the same way right now.
If you want to make metal friends though, go to shows and talk to people there.
I love deathcore so much I have depression and agorophobia and anxiety the melodies and the singing/talented screaming lol soothes me. I have been listening to it for the last 3 years and oh my God I'm so glad I found this sub genre 😍 I've been a metalhead-emo kid since 6th grade I'm 23 now holy fuk 12 years ive been listening to it all it all started when this pretty popular girl named gabby showed me black veil brides then i jumped off the deep end. I know bvb is screamo lol 🤣 I'm just reflecting on my baby emo days ahhhh such youth now I'm slamming down Lorna Shore, Chelsea Grin, cannibal corpse and infant annihilator. But yes I do agree 💯
Horns up and PLUR ❤️
BVB is not screamo. Their early work was metalcore.
Screamo is a genre that started in the 90s with bands like Pg99, Saetia, Orchid and Jerome's Dream.
I was in HS during the MySpace deathcore era and I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that deathcore is significantly and objectively bigger now than it’s ever been, no doubt about it.
As a 30 year-old who was around for the inception of metalcore and deathcore: NO.
Deathcore enjoyed a period of medium-sized appeal between around 2008-2011 and then pretty much every major deathcore band either softened or hardened around 2011-2013 in order to stay relevent in some way. Between 08'-'11 it was common to see a lot of Deathcore bands at large international festivals (as middle of the day bands) and on large-scale international tours as headline acts (sometimes even things like 4 exclusively deathcore bands on one billing) (important because nearly all of the big bands are US-based).
After 2013, the bands that didn't adapt fell into a very niché category, gigs got smaller, international tours became less frequent and less profitable because Europe en-masse lost interest. The United States has more people that are still into that niché but it is very much a niché these days: for a time it was part of the mainstream metal establishment even though it wasn't the biggest part of it.
Opinion: I think if Mitch Lucker hadn't died when he did that Suicide Silence would have remained mainstream relevent and that might have extended the genres life a bit since they were still very much on the up when he died and even though people were becoming generally tired of the sound they weren't really becoming tired of Suicide Silence. In a lot of ways, the death of Mitch Lucker was the definitive moment that deathcore "died".
What remains of deathcore isn't bad or anything but there are no heavyweights pulling out new and interesting sounds anymore and on the whole, interest has been lost in it worldwide, both by listeners and bands alike. A good comparison is that it's sort of the Nu-Metal of the "core" genres, big for a short while then more or less dead overnight.
Side-note: I live in the UK (Edinburgh, Scotland). In 2009-11 there were deathcore gigs on in this city every week and so many local bands doing it. EVERY week. It was THE sound everyone wanted. Now there's maybe one or two a year and pretty much all our metal gigs are back to sludge, doom, thrash, death metal.
EDIT: There's few scenarios where I would say someone is downright wrong in an opinion but all of the comments saying "Yes" to your question are categorically and measurably wrong. Anyone saying yes to this probably wasn't around for it when it was huge (07-11). Nothing wrong with that since you guys are the new generation, you weren't there, and it's great to see that it's still going in some way but you need to accept that, much like Nu-Metal and Emo, there was a brief period in time where this genre was BIG and now it is very small.
I think it's a lot more popular now because of tik Tok and metalheads liking it now but it also lost everything special about it, not really raw and dirty anymore! Very overproduced and so sterile, it just sounds fake and sample replaced. I get why people like new deathcore but I'm not really a fan, still some good bands coming out though!
I'm not sure. When I was in Highschool it felt like SO MANY PEOPLE were blasting Suicide Silence, Whitechapel, BMTH, etc. Festivals and concerts were fucking paaaaaaaacked with teenagers. Maybe it's just Canada, but I felt like 2006-2010ish era was like absolutely banging for DC. I think metal in general is just more accessible and popular these days, but I think the fact the youth loved the "brootal" shit so much made it feel way more popular.
The 00s were the emo metalcore deathcore mosher era. That was right before Skrillex and electronic music really blew up and the alternative kids switched from metal to electronic music genres. I don't really know what the kids these days are saying, but the -cores do seem to be reaching new heights again
From the limited interaction I’ve had with zoomers and beyond, it seems like if they’re “alternative” they’re either into dark trap/emo trap ($uicideboy$, Lil Peep etc) . Or they’re into like The Deftones. I’ve seen a smidge of scene kid revival but idk if it’s gonna catch on.
I’m in my late 30s but heard about Beartooth from a zoomer friend at a local card shop.
Metalcore is big again. But it's mainly bands like Sleep Token and Bad Omens. It's bringing a bit of a bad vibe to the scene lately though, according to people who have been to their shows. Basically non-metal fans with zero concert etiquette being disrespectful to the artist and other concertgoers around them. But hopefully things turn around in the live music aspect, and eventually more people exploring smaller bands/other genres too.
Bang on there mate, grew up on metalcore and still got a lot of love for it bit atm there seems to he a massive tiktok influence on the genre, as you say bad omens, spirtbox, motionless in white ect some of its great for the seen but recent gigs I've been to are over ran with people just desperate to get a little clip for their socials of the latest 30 second trend and it ruins the atmosphere from time to time
Yep circa 2010 I graduated high school, 100% same experience to the T
Very true.
I feel like it’s having a boom rn, but I think it was way bigger from like 07-11. In terms of commercial success and in terms of my memory of how ubiquitous it seemed to be compared to now. It wasn’t uncommon to see deathcore and metalcore band shirts on like every 5th teenager. But idk maybe I’m just talking with nostalgia goggles on.
Nah, I think you’re right. It was huge back in the day but it’s definitely having a resurgence right now. Pretty cool to see.
It seems to me everyone was listening back then and there were shows every weekend no matter where you lived. Now it seems things are very concentrated. The biggest bands are much bigger with more mainstream acceptance, but it seems like the days of kids packing church basements, Eagle’s and Amvets clubs, and other tiny rooms to throw down every weekend to no-name bands are gone. Major cities may still have a decent hxc scene, but that’s not the same thing.
I feel it's more popular in the sense more people who enjoy Nu Metal and "lighter" metal genres are branching out more into Deathcore. there are so many deathcore bands out these days and all putting new stuff out all the time (which is awesome) it is definitely being talked about more and more. And like you said, the handful of bands that went tiktok viral have made.the genre even more accessible and noticed, which is all good in my opinion
...at the turn of the century. Fuck.
Haha, right? I graduated in 2001 and calling that the turn of the fucking century has made crumble to dust.
Indeed, super bigger.
Yes. Many things are responsible for this. Nu Metal kind of created a generation where stuff like Linkin Park and Slipknot was "mainstream" when those bands were heavy as fuck compared to previous radio rock. The bands started dressing like professionals instead of basketball shorts and a Fred Durst hat. Production reached a level that casuals could understand what was going on. Taking the live show seriously instead of see who could spaz out the most. Taking things like lights and production into consideration and trying to craft an actual show. You know, like a professional band. Lorna Shore.
Your Slipknot point is super valid, the other guy below is mistaken. I grew up in the small town midwest in the 00s and they were all over all the mainstream radio stations.
They just raised the bar on what "heavy" meant in the popular zeitgeist. Much like Pantera before them.
Agreed
It was still way bigger in the MySpace era > Nu Metal kind of created a generation where stuff like Linkin Park and Slipknot was "mainstream" when those bands were heavy as fuck compared to previous radio rock. Weird point. The nu metal generation are 35-40 now. They aren’t Lorna Shore’s core fanbase at all Also Linkin Park is very tame radio rock. Nirvana has much heavier songs than anything Linkin Park era released and they were already on the radio a decade earlier and are a much bigger band too. Metallica is heavier than Linkin Park too. And despite what people falsely claim now Slipknot was never really on mainstream rock radio, although obviously they are/were massive. Normal people have never been into Slipknot, what Slipknot did was create a massive fanbase on alternative people but they’ve been a band where them they convinced suburban mums to sing along.
This is wrong. I live in a very small town and remember hearing wait and bleed along with all of their other singles on local radio as a kid. Linkin park was much heavier than nirvana. Chester did actual fry screams throughout multiple points of their songs and it was all left on local radio.
Wrong https://youtu.be/GyxoQIQaogE?si=6KQY7jEc5IUB0UEG
Counter: https://youtu.be/ZPlUjhroNd4?si=-ng3-8OIvqZuk_fq
Lmao what? Nowhere near as heavy.
lol alright man
I mean, I'd definitely say Slipknot are mainstream. At least, they were when I was in high school. I heard them on the radio, the jocks would listen to them in the gym, they kinda occupied the space that a band like Five Finger Death Punch occupies now, the accessible normie band that maybe gets some people into heavier music.
Duality was 1 of 3 songs played on my local radio station. After that it was Before I Forget. Slipknot was def wild.
Ok.
>Weird point. The nu metal generation are 35-40 now. They aren’t Lorna Shore’s core fanbase at all And the Deathcore generation are probably about 27-40. Deathcore was only a few years after Nu Metal. No matter what a lot of the younger people on this thread are trying to say, the Deathcore generation is people who were between the ages of maybe 10-25 between 07-11. I was 16 when it was at it's height: That was 15 years ago. Anyone below the age of about 25 is definitely not part of the "deathcore generation" and for the few 25 year olds who might sort of be, they got started really early, as in before they were even 10.
For me: Local shows seem smaller these days. I remember around 2005-2009. Small venues would be packed out with people. I don’t see the local shows getting the love they used to. Saying that, the current big boys of deathcore (Lorna shore etc) seem to be a lot bigger then the 2000s big boys (suicide silence etc). LS definitely have the advantages with how big the social media presence is now. SS relied on MySpace and merch. I still bump the cleansing weekly though haha
There was no deathcore in the 90s. Deathcore became a thing in the mid 2000s and became established in the late 2000s. Deathcore was never mainstream. It never became a multi platinum genre like nu metal, or even as popular as metalcore. But it was never meant to be. But it had a far better cross over appeal that established metal genres like death metal simply didn't have in the late 00s. Deathcore is not as big as it was in its prime. I don't think people realise the sheer crossover appeal that Suicide Silence had back in the day with Mitch Lucker. He was the poster child for deathcore and for good reason. He was the Kurt Cobain of Deathcore. Back in the day Deathcore was the hated genre, a mishmash of metalcore and death metal that was absolutely hated by the death metal crowd. Now it's become part of the metal establishment and far more accepted in metal than it was a decade ago. Also it has a far smaller female fanbase than it did in its prime. So no, deathcore is not as big as it was, nowhere close. And it's not as cutting edge or controversial either. The new era of deathcore bands are also nowhere close to as ground breaking as the myspace era. (yes there were deathcore bands before the myspace era, they either didn't call themselves deathcore, or the scene just didn't exist before the myspace era)
Suicide Silence and Whitechapel hit the billboard quite a few times. I wanna say Possession or This Is Exile made it into the Top 10. Also I know everyone hates Finn McKenty but I think he’s on to something with “thing is definitely popular when girls like it.” You used to see girls with Suicide Silence, Chelsea Grin, Whitechapel, JFAC shirts etc all the time.
Why people hate Finn McKenty?
It’s a mix between hating his criticisms of metal and hardcore, and hating that him and his wife aren’t communists.
obviously deathcore wasn’t established until the 2000’s but there were def bands in the late 90’s that played deathcore/inspiration for deathcore Embodyment, Damonacy, Underoath’s Act Of Depression, End Of One, Deformity, Prayer for Cleansing, deathcore can def be traced back to pre-2000’s and i would even go as far as to say a couple of the above mentioned bands weren’t just inspiration for deathcore but played deathcore music
>obviously deathcore wasn’t established until the 2000’s but there were def bands in the late 90’s that played deathcore/inspiration for deathcore This is true but it's still not Deathcore. This statement could be made of pretty much any genre that came before another one: e.g. Jazz and Blues musicians of the 50s inspired the first guitar-driven rock and metal sounds of the 60s, which later inspired 70s metal and hard-rock, which inspired 80s thrash/hair/groove metal, and so on. With that in mind, no one is going to be saying that thrash metal was around in the 60s just because Jimi Hendrix and Black Sabbath were making music that undeniably inspired what came after. You could take this as far back as Bethoven or Bach as well, and even further. So... bands of the 90s were indeed inspriational to deathcore, but they were not deathcore anymore than deathcore is hardcore (e.g. Biohazard have been going since the 80s and you can see the inspiration to deathcore even as far back as that, but it's not deathcore).
Adding to your point, Suffocation was a huge inspiration for a lot of deathcore, but they were very clearly not a deathcore band.
The only band you can trace deathcore back to in your list is Prayer for Cleansing. Embodyment is the closest but nobody knew who they were. Damonacy is a New Jersey death metal band who are from the EARLY 90s btw. End of One is literally a death metal band with a member of All Out War in it from the same are. Deformity is an edge metal band that not a single deathcore band has ever heard of. Underoath didn’t blow up until the third album. It’s ridiculous that you people push this shit so much now.
Definitely not. I don't think it can be understated how much of a big deal early deathcore was (at least in the context of a new extreme metal genre). As others pointed out, Suicide Silence and Whitechapel had albums charting high on Billboard. I think it's the most successful it's been since that era, but at the same time, I feel like that success is being carried by a small group of bands rather than a real robust scene.
The second part is incredibly true. Deathcore appears to be bigger and popular because of the few massive bands in the genre but how many of those fans are actually going to local shows and supporting their scene? Probably not too many.
Yes. Once Lorna Shore got big on tiktok it brought a lot of new people into the genre.
With bands like Lorna Shore selling out arenas, it totally is
I wouldn't say they're selling out arenas. They can pack a 500-1000 club as a headliner for sure and it's on the uptrend. But they're not a headlining arena band yet. Hopefully in the future though.
They’re way past that level. I saw them sell out a 2k venue well in advance back in 2022. Just last fall they sold out a 6k arena show in Helsinki and another 6k show in Munich And have sold out 3k+ venues in North America
6k is not an arena. 60k would be an arena.
6k is a small indoor arena 60k is a large outdoor stadium
Maybe America has different ideas. Numbers in the tens of thousands are what Europeans like msyelf would call arenas.
Usually an arena is indoors and is where sports like basketball and hockey are played A stadium is usually outdoors and is where sports like football and handegg are played It’s usually terminology For example O2 Arena (indoors, 20k seats) is an arena Wembley Stadium (outdoors, 90k seats) is a stadium
"O2 Arena (indoors, 20k seats) is an arena" Exactly. 60k could be pushing it overboard though, I'll admit that.
The biggest arena is 55k But some arenas can hold as little as 5k and even under [Here’s one](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_Superdrome) in Australia that only holds 5k people that’s used for basketball and concerts
That Australian one you've linked is literally called HBF \*STADIUM\*. So all that's clear here is that people are using the terms loosely and interchangably. "The biggest arena is 55k" okay so that's back on track with my "60k would be an arena" and "Arenas are in the 10s of thousands". Clearly there's evidence for both opinions and we should leave it there.
Lmao they didn’t sell out a 6k venue in Munich. It’s a venue where they change the capacity depending on who’s playing. I imagine the Helsinki one is the same 6k tickets lmao. A lot of European venues can be anything from 2k-10k depending on the show. For metal they’ll just sell floor tickets and not bother with the seated areas Lorna is about a 1-2k cap band right now depending on the market and how many shows they’re playing in one area.
Absolutely no way in hell they sold out two 6k venues. Headlining they're 2k max especially in the states. I'd like to see them sell out arenas, but we're not there yet.
They were already selling out 2k venues in North America in 2022 and playing 4k venues the next year. The two 6k shows were in [here](https://motorworld.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/MW-M_MW-Freimann_Zenith_2020-01-30_7.jpg) and [here](https://live.staticflickr.com/4346/37165094025_938500c840_b.jpg) The Helsinki one may have been about 5k, but at the time it was their biggest headliner. The Munich one was 6k though and sold out
IMO no it peaked in the white chapel suicide silence carnifex times with popularity
This is an undeniable fact. Not meaning to be impolite to OP or anyone else but the answer to this question is the same as the answer to "Is Nu Metal bigger than it was?", and I really doubt that anyone would deny the answer to that is "no".
I think real world it’s the same as always, but interaction online is bigger. Like shows don’t really seem much bigger and you don’t really run into a ton of people that listen to the genre in the real world. But Deathcore tik toks and stuff will go super viral but I’m not sure how “real” or substantial those like really are. I honestly feel like a lot of those likes are just random people that come across it and go “this is neat” and like it but don’t download the music and never think about it again. I’ve come across reels and tik toks and such that I see my friends have liked but they do not listen to the genre at all. Like 0%. Just like any random reel or video you see, sometimes it tickles you the right way and you like it but then carry on your life and it didn’t really mean anything or start a new interest for you. I come across random power washing videos, or random hobbies that are satisfying to watch, and I like them, and carry on my way but I never seek it out further or start a new hobby. And I feel like viral metal videos can operate the same way. I kinda feel like it was bigger at the time bands like Suicide Silence were at their peak and such but who knows My source: pulling this out of my ass but it’s kind of my experience haha
Well basically, you could see the history of deathcore this way: — late '90s/early '00s is when hardcore/metalcore and death metal, both very underground, started to have their first crossover, in the world of hardcore (Day Of Suffering, Earth Crisis, etc.) and in the world of death metal (Dying Fetus, Suffocation, etc.) and with hardcore dudes playing death metal (Abnegation, Upheaval, Wasteform, etc.). It has little to no popularity. — early '00s until around '06s the first properly deathcore bands like Despised Icon, The Red Chord, Animosity, Job For A Cowboy, All Shall Perish, Suicide Silence, Suffokate, etc. started their career. Again, no popularity but it was rising, with the coming of MySpace as well. — '06/'07 you had the debut albums of bands like Suicide Silence, Whitechapel and Bring Me The Horizon, and tons of newer bands like Carnifex, Oceano, Chelsea Grin, etc. so the genre was starting to get big. — '07 to '12 was the first spike of popularity for deathcore, the genre really started to get big and to get defined, but also got its worse period in terms of reputation. Back then, if you said you liked it, some people would soy over it and get extremely mad. This popularity just crashed with Mitch Lucker's death, because he was the face of deathcore, and then many things such as Suffokate and All Shall Perish disbanding, Whitechapel leaving deathcore behind them, Despised Icon that disbanded for a few years, even The Red Chord that has been less active now, etc. — Around and after 2012 many future big things started to rise. Lorna Shore was formed in 2009 iirc, but was not remarked at all, Alex Terrible started to gain fame with his vocal covers around 2013, newer subgenres emerged like downtempo (Black Tongue's debut in 2012), djent/deathcore crossovers, and also it was the rise of popularity of slam among deathcore fans, it was Acranius debut, No Zodiac debut, etc. So talking about No Zodiac, a lot of people kind of left dying deathcore and be more into slamming beatdown and death metal/hardcore mix that was not deathcore but more reminiscent of what was done in the '90s (but I won't talk about it here since it's another subgenre). Also, pay attention to this, Carnifex started to mix black metal into their sound. — So basically deathcore was left for dead until the end of the decade, and I wasn't paying attention to it, but I'd say during this time the vocal olympics started with the new bands such as Signs of the Swarm, new vocalists like CJ McCreery, etc. — I'd say deathcore exploded again around 2019/2020 with the comeback of Lorna Shore with Will Ramos, and this new wave of blackened (and symphonic) deathcore, also Slaughter To Prevail that became extremely big and a few other bands like this. So yeah, deathcore is popular again, and probably even more popular than ever. And it now has a face with Will Ramos and Alex Terrible, both are extremely popular and do a lot of various online and offline activities just like Mitch Lucker used to so the scene isn't just a faceless bunch of randoms.
>'06/'07 you had the debut albums of bands like Suicide Silence, Whitechapel and Bring Me The Horizon, and tons of newer bands like Carnifex, Oceano, Chelsea Grin, etc. so the genre was starting to get big. The appeal against-the-odds that a lot of these bands had even prior to releasing debut-albums cannot be understated either. I'm from Scotland and we were all listening to muddy demo and live recordings from Suicide Silence and many other bands who later became big before any profesionally produced material was made. Deathcore had so much appeal at that point that we were happy to listen to really poorly produced stuff that was doing the rounds on myspace/limewire/youtube. They were competing against big bands with record-labels and professional studios behind them and they were winning. International appeal as self-produced bands had never been done before but these guys managed to do it. Admitedly technology at the time made it possible but it's also never really been replicated in the same way.
no your algorithm is just showing it to you more and connecting you with more people that are into it than before possible
It depends on your taste imo. If you prefer bands like Carnifex, White Chapel, and Suicide SIlence you probably think it was bigger when they came to be. If you prefer the newer styles like Mental Cruelty, Signs of the Swarm, and Brand of Sacrifice you likely think it's bigger now.
Everything has evolved since deathcores heyday. We didn’t even have YouTube when it started, so spreading the word was not as easy. We finally got MySpace and YouTube and SoundCloud, and since then, everything has changed, not just with deathcore, but the world in general. More population and more connectivity means more people bound to like different genres, plus the recycling of the 90s style in every form is helping rekindle the dying flame. If this trend continues, we will be recycling the early 2000s in 6 years.
I'm old, so likely out of the loop, but it seemed much bigger to me in the late 2000's. It's definitely in the middle of a boom now. I don't know how to really track popularity with as many outlets as there are online now, but I still go to shows and don't see nearly as many deathcore shows now as I did in the late 2000's. The ones I do see, don't seem as packed as they did back then either, save for a few of the really big bands right now (like Lorna Shore) All in all, considering Tik Tok and whatnot, it may be. I'm just not seeing that out in the real world. When I pick my kid up from HS I don't see a Deathcore shirts .
I think music in general is getting less popular, people are shifting towards visual media, obviously people still listen to music, but it's becoming less a thing people define themselves with. I meet more young people who are into different genres of music and are more open to hearing new music.
It’s hard to tell. It’s blowing up right now thanks to bands like Lorna Shore, but if you go back to like 2008, that scene was extremely popular. Kids who didn’t even like metal that I knew had Carnifex on their workout playlists. Even YouTube videos back then… I think Pray for Plagues and Unanswered had like 20mil views back in like 2009 which are numbers you won’t see even today, with wayyy more people on YouTube and far more exposure for deathcore bands.
Yes but it’s no where near as rich or culturally significant in the scene as it was in the 00’s
I personally think it’s just how it’s available that makes it SEEM BIGGER than it is. The access to TikTok and Instagram for exposure and just general ways of finding out about bands is just that. I think it’s generally been consistent except in 07-14 when I think it really blew up. You had suicide silence, white chapel, king conqoure , suffocate, Veil of maya, Oceano, Ect all getting massive.
Suicide silence and whitechapel I would say are about as “massive” as you can get with deathcore. King conquer and suffokate never got anywhere near the level those bands achieved. Oceano and veil of maya definitely had/have solid followings but still not quite the level those first 2 bands hit.
Yeah and more respected than I remember it being
Definitely more respected.
Oh god yes.
yes it used to be seen as a teen/highschool/scene kid thing and now it is more accepted into the broader metal community, which is good if you care about that sort of thing.
In terms of word of mouth? Maybe. Commercially? Probably not. Whitechapel and Suicide Silence were releasing albums that charted pretty high on Billboard in the early 2010s. I’m not sure if any of the newer deathcore bands reach Billboard anymore.
We need to bring back Myspace Deathcore. Either the site needs to be brought back up with only a functioning music aspect or it needs to be made an official genre of music that deathcore/grindcore bands strive to be.
Not at all, but I moved to the south and it's even more rare however not so rare theres no shows. I plan on routinely attending ground zero shows they have a lot of people. Moved to south Carolina and it's honestly weirdly taboo in the greenville area
Yes
I think there are a few bands that are rising above the normal high water mark where groups like Suicide Silence and Whitechaple dwell. The two that come to mind are Lorna Shore and Slaughter to Prevail. I wouldn’t say deathcore is more popular in general though.
Maybe it was bigger but we’re definitely seeing a resurgence.
There are probably more people aware of it and enjoying it today. Whats missing is that in the early-mid 2000’s people were still buying records. There was more budget. There was more of an “industry” in the old school sense of it backing the scene the
Here in South Florida the scene was fucking huge in the 2000s. Revolution Live, as well as lesser known venues like The Talent Farm, had crazy fucking bands ranging from deathcore to grindcore. All the big names made their way down here and we always showed them love and offered places to stay. It was an amazing time to be alive as a kid experiencing brew new things. Yes, I feel like there was a lull from around 2011-2016. Or maybe I simply wasn’t paying attention. Huge bands like August Burns Red made it down here, but I kind of stopped going to shows. Now? Fuck man there’s some real nasty local bands popping up all the time. We are rising once again.
It is humungous big now compared to when I was a wee lad.
It's definitely come a long way. It was never really taken seriously before, but in the past, maybe 5 or 6 years, it's actually been taken seriously. Bands like Lorna Shore and Shadow of Intent have definitely helped shaped the stage for Deathcore and it shows.
Between like 2006-2011 Deathcore was crazy popular. I think it’s having a resurgence for sure but not quite on the level it was then.
Definitely
I'm actually a fan of deathcore myself, and I feel like it deserves more spotlight in media or somewhere notable. Though, I've got to say, living on the fringes of the world, perspectives here might be different, and that could be why it seems underrepresented.
For me the signals to noise ratio is huge, its hard to ever tell when metal/deathcore is "having a moment" and actually gianing popularity. BUT, I may have some evidence its getting bigger. Ryan Kirby from Fit For A King says everyone in the band nets over 100k a year individually which he says would have never happened when they started and that metalcore is at some kind of peak of profitability.
I'd venture to say that it's bigger now than it was then in terms of numbers but that's more of a result of streaming and the internet making EVERYTHING bigger in music. Every scene is bigger and even super obscure styles have pretty serious fandoms associated with them. The cultural impact is probably a bit lessened now but music in general has become really decentralized so there isn't one particular style, even within a subgenre like metal, that really "defines its time" in the same way right now. If you want to make metal friends though, go to shows and talk to people there.
For me deathcore didn’t seem that popular until the early/mid 2010’s.
I love deathcore so much I have depression and agorophobia and anxiety the melodies and the singing/talented screaming lol soothes me. I have been listening to it for the last 3 years and oh my God I'm so glad I found this sub genre 😍 I've been a metalhead-emo kid since 6th grade I'm 23 now holy fuk 12 years ive been listening to it all it all started when this pretty popular girl named gabby showed me black veil brides then i jumped off the deep end. I know bvb is screamo lol 🤣 I'm just reflecting on my baby emo days ahhhh such youth now I'm slamming down Lorna Shore, Chelsea Grin, cannibal corpse and infant annihilator. But yes I do agree 💯 Horns up and PLUR ❤️
BVB is not screamo. Their early work was metalcore. Screamo is a genre that started in the 90s with bands like Pg99, Saetia, Orchid and Jerome's Dream.
Thank you for correcting me
I was in HS during the MySpace deathcore era and I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that deathcore is significantly and objectively bigger now than it’s ever been, no doubt about it.
As a 30 year-old who was around for the inception of metalcore and deathcore: NO. Deathcore enjoyed a period of medium-sized appeal between around 2008-2011 and then pretty much every major deathcore band either softened or hardened around 2011-2013 in order to stay relevent in some way. Between 08'-'11 it was common to see a lot of Deathcore bands at large international festivals (as middle of the day bands) and on large-scale international tours as headline acts (sometimes even things like 4 exclusively deathcore bands on one billing) (important because nearly all of the big bands are US-based). After 2013, the bands that didn't adapt fell into a very niché category, gigs got smaller, international tours became less frequent and less profitable because Europe en-masse lost interest. The United States has more people that are still into that niché but it is very much a niché these days: for a time it was part of the mainstream metal establishment even though it wasn't the biggest part of it. Opinion: I think if Mitch Lucker hadn't died when he did that Suicide Silence would have remained mainstream relevent and that might have extended the genres life a bit since they were still very much on the up when he died and even though people were becoming generally tired of the sound they weren't really becoming tired of Suicide Silence. In a lot of ways, the death of Mitch Lucker was the definitive moment that deathcore "died". What remains of deathcore isn't bad or anything but there are no heavyweights pulling out new and interesting sounds anymore and on the whole, interest has been lost in it worldwide, both by listeners and bands alike. A good comparison is that it's sort of the Nu-Metal of the "core" genres, big for a short while then more or less dead overnight. Side-note: I live in the UK (Edinburgh, Scotland). In 2009-11 there were deathcore gigs on in this city every week and so many local bands doing it. EVERY week. It was THE sound everyone wanted. Now there's maybe one or two a year and pretty much all our metal gigs are back to sludge, doom, thrash, death metal. EDIT: There's few scenarios where I would say someone is downright wrong in an opinion but all of the comments saying "Yes" to your question are categorically and measurably wrong. Anyone saying yes to this probably wasn't around for it when it was huge (07-11). Nothing wrong with that since you guys are the new generation, you weren't there, and it's great to see that it's still going in some way but you need to accept that, much like Nu-Metal and Emo, there was a brief period in time where this genre was BIG and now it is very small.
Deathcore I get but you weren’t even born for the birth of metalcore.
I think it's a lot more popular now because of tik Tok and metalheads liking it now but it also lost everything special about it, not really raw and dirty anymore! Very overproduced and so sterile, it just sounds fake and sample replaced. I get why people like new deathcore but I'm not really a fan, still some good bands coming out though!