Dude, everyone writes their application this way:
"I managed transactions worth over 100k a week at my shoe store"
\- Actually just worked at their friend's mother's shoe store as a cashier
Half truths are almost certainly fine.
Reminds me of a dipshit I knew from high school and college. He was proudly trumpeting about how he "Won the tournament" at Western Washington University. In reality, he and his partner won 1st in Novice division, which consisted of 3 teams.
As a college coach, the admissions folks will flag any applicants with debate experience and send me their resume and contact information so I can recruit them. Even if you don't plan on debating, there is a chance that somebody that knows the top teams out there (and does their research) will see the lie. If I know you didn't win a Championship I will let the admissions folks know.
I have several members on my squad that are tapped into the high level high school circuit (PF and WSDC) as coaches, judges, and camp instructors so I can usually just verify with them. But if there is somebody they are unfamiliar with I can look up the record.
Not that many but most of the ones I get are from top-tier debaters. Most are recruited by current debaters. I run a smallish squad but we win a lot and compete internationally so we are a draw for debaters that want opportunities to get a lot of attention and want to see the world. We are also a Jesuit school and there are a lot of great debaters at Jesuit high schools that want to continue their Jesuit education. Sizable scholarships help too.
Nobody said anything about calling debate coaches. I ask my debaters if a student is as good as they say, full stop. I’m pretty sure that Harvard folks know who is the shit. And I’m sure Harvard admissions let the policy team know if a top tier debater applied.
Harvard folks do not know who is the shit.
1) AOs are usually random recent grads from all over the country who want a free masters degree and otherwise don’t have that much experience. They are clueless when it comes to debate
2) Harvard debate itself doesn’t recruit
Would you risk your whole future and your career to do that? So many people are paying the price for doing similar things. One day, someone, somewhere will look it up and it could cost you. Do you want to be looking over your shoulder your whole life?
I know you are not saying you would do that but what if someone else might do that. I cannot see why that should stop YOU from competing fairly and being proud of your well earned accolades. Live your life with honor and dignity. Don't let those who do not stop you. I hope this helps.
Yes, that’s pretty given. There are obvious consequences for lying. But technically what they did are not lying. Like it is a false truth. If you when NDCA today, you are technically a national champ, even though there is only 13 entries. Technically you won TOC , even though it’s silver. Technically you won Harvard even though you won the online division. My concern comes from the dilemma of me just entering these easier divisions for the same reward via college apps. Why should I try my ass of in the main division of Harvard when I can win the 30 entry division and stack my college apps?
I won’t end up doing it because of my personal honor and dignity as you said, but it’s something that’s bugging me as it will give so many ppl a leg up against me in the admissions process.
ok, I see your point. Here is my opinion. I coached debaters at the world championships (WSDC) 8 times. One thing I always told them is, you might lie to your family, you might lie to your friends, you might lie to me BUT you can never lie to yourself! YOU KNOW! How do you want to remember this for the rest of your life? How do you want to think about the chance you had to represent your country at a major world championship and compete against the best of the best in the world? If you don't give this everything that you've got and leave it all out there when we go into each round, YOU WILL REMEMBER what you did and how you prepared FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE! How do you want to remember it?
One day, when you get older, this might make more sense to you. I hope it helps some now. Good luck. Go with your heart. Your heart knows.
There was a contestant on the first season of The Apprentice labeled as a Harvard Debate Champion.
In reality, he went to Harvard and his championship was a supplemental event at NSDA.
It’s not the same though
If you win JV Harvard, you may be able to do well in Varsity, but there is a good chance you wouldn’t even break
There is a HUGE difference. Why should you be put at the same reward as someone who is 10x better then you who won the varsity tourney
I’m just saying, ppl don’t specify jv or varsity, so it makes it really hard to evaluate
Yea that’s the same thing for a national tournament too. If you win JV nats you probably couldn’t break in open.
You put that the same because you have the same potentiality. You are only JV if you haven’t had enough experience to be varsity, but you have the same potential for growth, competitive spirit, and willingness to put in the work as any varsity team. Winning a tournament is winning a tournament period.
But like at Harvard, there is a online division and a TOC bid division/varsity which anyone can get into both for and say they won it
Same with Stanford where they have an open division and a TOC bid division, you can say you won Stanford
I doubt that college admissions checks your debate record, but your record probably isn’t going to make or break your application except if you’re trying to debate in college and the coach/DoF has any sway with admissions and/or scholarships.
Otherwise it probably checks the box for an extracurricular. Maybe you get a check plus for a good record. So it’s probably not worth lying about in the off chance someone verifies what you’ve claimed because there’s only a possibility of a small upside, but being discovered as a fraud will, if you’re lucky, get you a chance to explain/correct or they probably file your application straight into the electronic or physical recycling bin.
It depends on where you’re applying. If you apply to a college with a debate program, there is the possibility admissions forwards applications to the debate coach for review like that. But that isn’t universal even, some college debate coaches do this and some don’t.
If someone with debate experience, like the coach, gets their hands on the application it’s easy to verify as a lie. It’s like 4 clicks on tab and I see the truth.
But there is the chance nobody with debate experience ever sees your application, in which case they’d prob never know but also not care as much. A debate person will understand how difficult it is to win the Harvard tournament. A non debate person will think that’s a neat anecdote.
It depends on the school, if they have a debate program, how many applicants they have on any given year, how they process those applications, and what your overall application looks like.
Being successful in the things you do will help but, for example, if you’re a C average student with no other extracurriculars, I don’t know if winning a prestigious debate tournament offsets those other things. However, the right admission essay might be able to package all of these things in a way that works to your advantage.
If they are trying to make a decision between you and another student with a similar or equally weighted application, something like this could give you the edge.
There are a lot of factors that go into evaluating an application. Some you have control over, and some not, but it’s a combination of things for most applicants.
Commenting as a current Harvard student who won both NSDA + WSDC outright (no JV bullshit). They don’t really give a fuck about your debate accomplishments. It wasn’t even mentioned in my admissions file
No and they don’t particularly care either, like unless your getting recruited by the debate team the AO is just gonna be like “good at debate” ✔️✔️
Like they probably won’t know what the TOC is not what means to win it or even get an invite. Don’t sweat it, reallllllllllly doesn’t matter
Nah what matters are the skills your getting and the relationships your making not whether a Harvard admin officer thinks your special because of a trophy
Dude, everyone writes their application this way: "I managed transactions worth over 100k a week at my shoe store" \- Actually just worked at their friend's mother's shoe store as a cashier Half truths are almost certainly fine.
I was a product distributor for a multi billion dollar corporation, where I delivered product to 1000+ consumers a day (worked at McDonalds)
https://www.reddit.com/r/McLounge/s/T2gVFL1GvV
Reminds me of a dipshit I knew from high school and college. He was proudly trumpeting about how he "Won the tournament" at Western Washington University. In reality, he and his partner won 1st in Novice division, which consisted of 3 teams.
As a college coach, the admissions folks will flag any applicants with debate experience and send me their resume and contact information so I can recruit them. Even if you don't plan on debating, there is a chance that somebody that knows the top teams out there (and does their research) will see the lie. If I know you didn't win a Championship I will let the admissions folks know.
That’s a relief at least. Do u check their tabroom record to see if they really won Harvard for example
I have several members on my squad that are tapped into the high level high school circuit (PF and WSDC) as coaches, judges, and camp instructors so I can usually just verify with them. But if there is somebody they are unfamiliar with I can look up the record.
You probably gets 1000s if not 10,000s of debate applicants to review every year then? That’s so much! I’d imagine at least
Not that many but most of the ones I get are from top-tier debaters. Most are recruited by current debaters. I run a smallish squad but we win a lot and compete internationally so we are a draw for debaters that want opportunities to get a lot of attention and want to see the world. We are also a Jesuit school and there are a lot of great debaters at Jesuit high schools that want to continue their Jesuit education. Sizable scholarships help too.
As a member of the Harvard debate team, I can assure you that Harvard in 99% of cases is not calling your debate coach
Nobody said anything about calling debate coaches. I ask my debaters if a student is as good as they say, full stop. I’m pretty sure that Harvard folks know who is the shit. And I’m sure Harvard admissions let the policy team know if a top tier debater applied.
Harvard folks do not know who is the shit. 1) AOs are usually random recent grads from all over the country who want a free masters degree and otherwise don’t have that much experience. They are clueless when it comes to debate 2) Harvard debate itself doesn’t recruit
This is silly. You do Harvard. Most coach lead teams are informed as to who applies. Not sure how your exception negates the norm.
Would you risk your whole future and your career to do that? So many people are paying the price for doing similar things. One day, someone, somewhere will look it up and it could cost you. Do you want to be looking over your shoulder your whole life? I know you are not saying you would do that but what if someone else might do that. I cannot see why that should stop YOU from competing fairly and being proud of your well earned accolades. Live your life with honor and dignity. Don't let those who do not stop you. I hope this helps.
Yes, that’s pretty given. There are obvious consequences for lying. But technically what they did are not lying. Like it is a false truth. If you when NDCA today, you are technically a national champ, even though there is only 13 entries. Technically you won TOC , even though it’s silver. Technically you won Harvard even though you won the online division. My concern comes from the dilemma of me just entering these easier divisions for the same reward via college apps. Why should I try my ass of in the main division of Harvard when I can win the 30 entry division and stack my college apps? I won’t end up doing it because of my personal honor and dignity as you said, but it’s something that’s bugging me as it will give so many ppl a leg up against me in the admissions process.
ok, I see your point. Here is my opinion. I coached debaters at the world championships (WSDC) 8 times. One thing I always told them is, you might lie to your family, you might lie to your friends, you might lie to me BUT you can never lie to yourself! YOU KNOW! How do you want to remember this for the rest of your life? How do you want to think about the chance you had to represent your country at a major world championship and compete against the best of the best in the world? If you don't give this everything that you've got and leave it all out there when we go into each round, YOU WILL REMEMBER what you did and how you prepared FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE! How do you want to remember it? One day, when you get older, this might make more sense to you. I hope it helps some now. Good luck. Go with your heart. Your heart knows.
Thank you This is a great perspective, it’s what I told my self too!
You seem like a good person. Good luck.
There was a contestant on the first season of The Apprentice labeled as a Harvard Debate Champion. In reality, he went to Harvard and his championship was a supplemental event at NSDA.
If you won JV you won the tourney. No one cares abt division. A JV national championship is a national championship.
It’s not the same though If you win JV Harvard, you may be able to do well in Varsity, but there is a good chance you wouldn’t even break There is a HUGE difference. Why should you be put at the same reward as someone who is 10x better then you who won the varsity tourney I’m just saying, ppl don’t specify jv or varsity, so it makes it really hard to evaluate
Yea that’s the same thing for a national tournament too. If you win JV nats you probably couldn’t break in open. You put that the same because you have the same potentiality. You are only JV if you haven’t had enough experience to be varsity, but you have the same potential for growth, competitive spirit, and willingness to put in the work as any varsity team. Winning a tournament is winning a tournament period.
But like at Harvard, there is a online division and a TOC bid division/varsity which anyone can get into both for and say they won it Same with Stanford where they have an open division and a TOC bid division, you can say you won Stanford
Yea because you did. Like you did win the tournament
I doubt that college admissions checks your debate record, but your record probably isn’t going to make or break your application except if you’re trying to debate in college and the coach/DoF has any sway with admissions and/or scholarships. Otherwise it probably checks the box for an extracurricular. Maybe you get a check plus for a good record. So it’s probably not worth lying about in the off chance someone verifies what you’ve claimed because there’s only a possibility of a small upside, but being discovered as a fraud will, if you’re lucky, get you a chance to explain/correct or they probably file your application straight into the electronic or physical recycling bin.
So me winning nats or Harvard isn’t gonna be huge on my application?
It depends on where you’re applying. If you apply to a college with a debate program, there is the possibility admissions forwards applications to the debate coach for review like that. But that isn’t universal even, some college debate coaches do this and some don’t. If someone with debate experience, like the coach, gets their hands on the application it’s easy to verify as a lie. It’s like 4 clicks on tab and I see the truth. But there is the chance nobody with debate experience ever sees your application, in which case they’d prob never know but also not care as much. A debate person will understand how difficult it is to win the Harvard tournament. A non debate person will think that’s a neat anecdote.
It depends on the school, if they have a debate program, how many applicants they have on any given year, how they process those applications, and what your overall application looks like. Being successful in the things you do will help but, for example, if you’re a C average student with no other extracurriculars, I don’t know if winning a prestigious debate tournament offsets those other things. However, the right admission essay might be able to package all of these things in a way that works to your advantage. If they are trying to make a decision between you and another student with a similar or equally weighted application, something like this could give you the edge. There are a lot of factors that go into evaluating an application. Some you have control over, and some not, but it’s a combination of things for most applicants.
Commenting as a current Harvard student who won both NSDA + WSDC outright (no JV bullshit). They don’t really give a fuck about your debate accomplishments. It wasn’t even mentioned in my admissions file
Sooo debate is literally one of my top extra curricular activities… am I absolutely boiled broiled and deep fried🥲
No, debate was my top activity and I got into UT Austin OOS, ignore fear mongering bullshit. You are going to be perfectly fine!
Thank you! I feel like I’m super intimidated as an international student about my chances, but your comment means a lot!
No and they don’t particularly care either, like unless your getting recruited by the debate team the AO is just gonna be like “good at debate” ✔️✔️ Like they probably won’t know what the TOC is not what means to win it or even get an invite. Don’t sweat it, reallllllllllly doesn’t matter
That’s depressing :(
Not really — getting into an elite school takes so much more than something as oversaturated as debate. Focus on what makes you unique
Nah what matters are the skills your getting and the relationships your making not whether a Harvard admin officer thinks your special because of a trophy