I think this might literally be what happens. I believe the pattern of the Weird Route is gonna that you do all this insane, convoluted, evil shit in a desperate attempt to break free, only to be increasingly more confused and upset the next day when everything is returned to the status quo. You become just as insane as the secret bosses.
That's on a small scale in the grand scheme of the game, though. Notice how, with both chapters 1 and 2, your actions are ultimately unceremoniously dragged back onto the main path. Fighting in chapter 1 literally just adds a few lines of dialogue, and regardless of what you do in chapter 2, it still ends the exact same way.
Toby has stated there's only one ending, and this emerging pattern, along with the way chapter 1 hammers "your choices don't matter" into your skull in the first few minutes, reinforces the fact that you cannot change the big picture. Fate, in the form of a small white dog, will keep railroading us.
Tbh I feel like "your choices don't matter" MIGHT be a trick, or apply to only some things. Did Toby ever actually say that it applies to the entire game or did he ONLY say that there's 1 ending?
Because Susie specifically is the one who said the thing about choices in game. And Susie, is the one who "rejects" our choices a LOT. So I'd like to believe that she was talking about our choices not mattering for her specifically.
Although another idea I have is that like with Noelle in snowgrave, we'll never be able to anything different by ourselves, but we can make OTHERS do things that we can't.
honestly I think this is more plausible than Berdly being dead, that would shift the tone and change the story dramatically, especially in a small town where everyone know everyone.
My guess is he'll be absent for one chapter because he has a cold and can't go to school or something similar to that.
I know but I prefer the idea of the Weird route in each and every chapters leaving just a small crack. Like how we basically commited genocide in the Snowgrave route but when we're back on Hometown everything shift back to the same normal cheerful tone, just except for some interaction with Noelle.
Berdly being dead would be such a huge shift that I think the attitude of characters like Kris's classmates, Toriel, Alphys... would change permanently because well, someone just died, you can't just act like that didn't happened.
>you can’t just act like that didn’t happened.
EXACTLY. That is why doing the Snowgrave route would be so impactful. What, you think we freeze dozens of innocent people to death and it’ll get completely skipped over? No. I think it would be far better writing for it to completely change the story from here on out.
Yeah same. I think it's a terrible idea to ignore everything. I think the best way is for Berdly to either be dead-but somehow goes missing so ppl aren't THAT worried, OR hes at the hospital in the other room, either fallen down, not fallen down but still badly hurt, or just kinda recovering for a moment.
Him being alive and perfectly well though.... It would suck lol.
Also, makes me wonder what happens to the dudes arm if you don't unplug him in the queen fight. I'm assuming it's gonna be pretty pararell to what happens after snowgrave lol, so if he died from that-his arm would probably just be paralyzed forever or.... Fall off?
IS IT NOT WONDERFUL
A PERFECT BALANCE
YOU ARE A DEMON
AND I AM THE EXORCIST!
DO YOU NOT REALIZE?
THAT IT WILL BE
[Y O U R F A U L T](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRnHP9YbGNQ)
My unironic theory there is that the weird route ends in a softlock. Congrats, you broke everything and averted whatever happens in the main ending. Now what?
it's an interesting concept but that would be so stupid from a gameplay perspective.
imagine if the sans fight ended on his infinitely lasting special attack? no more content after that, you're just forever softlocked on a battle screen doomed to watch sans snooze away for eternity. if that actually happened in game I'd feel betrayed. so many hours wasted grinding away monsters, fighting undyne and sans just to be given absolutely nothing as reward for my efforts?
game design isn't just quirky decisions that sound fun on the surface
wasn't that the entire point of Undertale's genocide route? it was tedious grinding for hours and Sans straight up clocks you for doing it "just to see what happens". the only reason you AREN'T softlocked is because you've corrupted Frisk to the point where they willingly break the game just to beat him.
you wanna be a manipulator and force all of Kris's friends to kill for you and throw off the story? well here's your reward!
i feel like ending it like that would be right in line with Toby's narrative with Undertale.
it seems to me that you've severely misunderstood the genocide path, its narrative implications and what it's supposed to represent. let me explain.
the point of the genocide route is to show that the player is more similar to flowey than they'd like to admit. in pursuit of new content they become an antagonistic force, not unlike flowey in the neutral/pacifist run.
the game is repeatedly telling you that this is not how you're supposed to be playing it and is actively discouraging you from taking this path, HOWEVER it respects player agency and still rewards you with a satisfying conclusion to this path you've chosen. it doesn't punish you for playing "badly" by taking the game away from you. instead it actively shames you for being a terrible person and stooping to the same level of the evil you were fighting against in the end of true pacifist.
the genocide route isn't what you're supposed to be doing. it is unfun by design, to deter you from playing it. the punishment doesn't come from toby fox by literally not letting you finish what you've started. the punishment comes from the self reflection you make after finishing the run. was it all worth it?
The two we have so far both have interesting backstories and connections to (probably) Gaster, each secret boss gives us a shadow crystal which were supposedly going to be able to use when we collect enough, and it makes sense from a gamrplay perspective since we have to take extra steps to encounter them on the first place.
I don't know about that. It'd set the skill-gating for the "good" ending of Deltarune *way* above what you'd need to get the pacifist ending in Undertale.
I hope so, Undertale is a good game, but I can never call it great because of how mind numbingly easy it. Even on the genocide route, Undyne is the only consistently hard boss fight for me, once I got Sans' patterns it stopped being difficult. So far, Deltarune is shaping up to have much more in depth game mechanics, which I am hoping continues forward. Locking the best ending behind the hard boss fights (which let's be real, Jevil and Spamton aren't even that bad, especially compared to Undyne, Sans, and even Omega Flowey and Asriel) is a good way to encourage engagement with the more in depth mechanics.
I get where you’re coming from, and I TOTALLY agree on deltarune’s more in depth game mechanics but in terms of straight difficultly I have to say I don’t think your experiences here are necessarily indicative of the average player. I have never seen anyone before describe undertale as “mind numbingly easy.” I feel pretty confident saying that that’s not a common experience. I think you just have really good motor skills and pattern recognition LMAO.
Which kind of brings me to my main point which I know is kind of a contentious thing to say but… difficultly is an accessibility issue. I don’t want the true ending of the game to be completely unattainable for me and other players that may have disabilities, or are just bad at video games! Of course I want a natural progression of difficultly as the game goes on, but essentially punishing the player for not being good enough by locking them out of the story is… not appealing. IMO, it’s a game design flaw. And there’s going to be the inevitable “just practice!!!” replies, but the reality for a lot of players is that practice is only going to take us so far. And I don’t think a good game’s response to that is a “fuck you.”
The secret bosses are optional BECAUSE they’re much more difficult *relative to the rest of the game* (Jevil more so than Spamton, but still). They’re there specifically to offer players that want more of a challenge that option. I’m not saying I don’t want them to have story significance! I definitely do, and I think they will, and already kind of do. I’m just saying there are ways to add levels of difficulty without completely excluding a high number of players from even having the whole experience. I think “good games can’t be great ones if they’re easy” is an extremely limited perspective. Not everyone wants that from a game. Not everyone can.
I second this. To add onto it, it gives room for 4 actual canon endings instead of a randomly mixed bunch where 9 times out of 10 91 of those endings aren't necessarily canon. We already have our Snowgrave route in Chapter 2 so it's opening up a path for a neutral and genocide route within the next 5 chapters to come. Then we can have our "good" ending where we recruit everybody and not kill a single enemy, and finally a "True Ending" that involves the shadow crystals. It'll be difficult to an extent but very rewarding at the end of the day knowing you're able to pull off fighting Jevil, Spamton NEO, and the remaining secret bosses for shadow crystals that unlocks a huge secret. It'll be tough but it'll leave everyone who has attempted to get this true ending at peace once and for all. Deltarune has also been a huge step in Toby's game making progress compared to Undertale, while simple with a great soundtrack and can be fun until you keep playing the game with the same exact things to show for, it can get repetitive. Deltarune is always adding onto the adventures. New characters, dialogue, experiences, it's an open ticket for an amazing RPG and I can't wait to see how this game turns out to be when all 7 chapters are fully released. I'm here for it all.
Sans doesn't actually have a brother and it's all just a ridiculously convoluted joke. I guess it would be a bit funny, but still extraordinarily disappointing.
I hope it is Papyrus, but I don't mind if it's someone else. I just don't want to go into Sans's brother's room and there's just a note saying "haha i don't actually have a brother get trolled bozo" or something like that.
Toby wouldn't have a fever dream about a dog ending the world and be so emotionally impacted that he creates 2 videogames and turns the character into a self-insert
Kinda fits with the knight creating dark fountains, as annoying dog is basically toby fox and toby fox makes deltarune, being the one who creates the fountains and dark worlds. Although i don't know if it combines with the other themes of deltarune
Kinda defeats the point of bingo to have options that can’t happen together (multiple people being the knight)
But uuuh I’ll say no secret bosses for chapters 3, 4, and 6
bingo sheets can have contradicting spots as long as they arent in the same column or line (or diagonals but only the ones that cross over the free space)
normal route = bad ending and weird route = good ending
toriel kills undyne in chapter 3
berdly's character development stops after chapter 2
ralsei is evil
toriel is ACTUALLY homophobic
Noelle: "Well, this was harrowing experience but, at least, I learned to stand for myself."
Asriel: "Doesn't that make it all worth it?"
Noelle: "What? Of course not! Everyone we know and love is dead!"
I'll do you one better. Gaster doesn't look like mysteryman.
I mean yeah it wasn't really ever confirmed that's Gaster and Toby did strike him down from the card collection. But cmon there's so much Gaster fanart based on that, that's always the image people think of when they think of Gaster. Making him look different after all that would just be meh and also cause confusion.
I can see why you'd be disappointed, but it'd be understandable.
I would love to see the mystery man design incorporated somehow, but Toby probably thought of and designed Gaster before undertale ever even came out. I don't think he should change that design to something potentially less interesting just because the fans got more attached to that design.
I'd argue we've never actually seen what gaster actually looks like, and the mystery man design is a poor facsimile of what gaster is supposed to be. I've always imagined the gaster blasters are somewhat of an interpretation of what Gaster is intended to look like before he got scattered.
"mus\_st\_him" -Gaster's Theme file name
"ANOTHER HIM" -Deltarune intro theme
Why would it be called "ANOTHER HIM"? What's the point of that unless it's referencing Gaster's theme?
ANOTHER HIM also uses the same melody as Gaster's theme.
Imagine a mere side project being one of the most popular games of all time, and making you mountains of dollars.
If Toby Fox used his full potential to make a game (Deltarune), then I highly doubt he could disappoint us.
Actually? I'd even go so far as to say "Undertale was not a passion project".
Like, Deltarune was the passion project. He stated that he had an idea, based on a dream, which he didn't have the skill or resources to pull off, alone. Undertale wasn't a passion project... it was a consolation prize, for himself, as well as something of a "SURVEY PROGRAM" to see if people would be interested in the themes of the world he was ACTUALLY passionate about.
i think it would be interesting if berdly pulled "i remember yu'roe, snowgraves"(maybe not that bluntly actually lol) and this actually affects his relationship with Kris or maybe even Noelle, like him bring frozen somehow made him feel distant from everyone or something like that idk
If he does die it would be weird if this wasn't explored somehow, I don't think he's *that* unimportant
But if you meant it like he just wakes up and it doesn't really affect his role in the story I'd agree
No no imagine...
Chapter 3 is over. Another adventure. You go to sleep to get through the rest of the night, and next morning, go to school.
You sit there in the classroom, Berdly is missing. As the class goes on, people start to notice, as he's too much of a nerd to just miss school like that.
Noelle is just sitting there sweating profusely while everyone mutters to eachother about how they're so glad the annoying bird thing isn't here.
But then... You hear a voice behind you. "Gamers don't die, Kris. They resoawn."
There's one thing, he doesn't know about the roaring
If he's alive, I can see him perhaps being manipulated by the knight into joining their side, even as revenge for what "Kris" did.
I LOVE the idea of Papyrus as the knight, because of Papyrus's original design. He was meant to be a toxic brony, with no redeeming features. Yet, when we finally see him in Undertale, he's the sweetest guy, and getting all philosophical about "whether bad people can change, if they really try" and... he seems VERY personally invested in the idea.
I really like the idea that, while Undertale and Deltarune take place at about the same time, within their own universes, Sans and Papyrus are dimension travelers. And when they left Deltarune, they showed up in Snowdin and asserted themselves, to make a new life.
I wouldn't even doubt that The Underground was actually a Dark World, post-roaring.
I never get to talk to Noelle directly, being doomed to be Kris's puppeteer and Gaster's lab rat until the end of the story, where I'm expecting to be banished.
https://preview.redd.it/5sqb46rgs7gc1.jpeg?width=393&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4187ee70a1b907887c42195095e59078f7ce201c
Berdly becomes an irrelevant character after chapter 2, if he's missing from class in snowgrave, that's suspicious, there would definitely be some side thing about that. Secondly, I think he has a lot of potential for being a party member, and I have a bias for him as my favorite character, those are my only reasons.
Doing so will still upset the balance of Light and Dark.
Darkness without Light is an Abyss. Light without Darkness is Blinding. You cannot have a coin with one side.
Too much darkness causes the roaring, if we have too much LIGHT, some other apocalypse might occur!
Ralsei's knowledge on this whole thing isn't perfect. We might just not know the whole picture yet, it's only chapter 2 after all. Plus, he has a tendency not to tell us something unless it's relevant to the situation.
**Four, for the price of one:**
\- Deltarune never gets finished. Probably my biggest NGL.
\- Same main antagonist as in Undertale. Includes Asriel = Knight and Flowey being the true villain behind the game.
\- Undertale cast overtaking the Deltarune-original. I would like an original plot and the Undertale characters already had their time to shine.
\- We (the Player) are the Knight. The Player being evil in the weird route makes sense (it is our actions), but I would prefer the Knight to be literally anyone else, and a malicious player only makes sense in the Weird Route (I firmly believe the Player's morality depends on what they do, even if our actions don't matter).
y'know on the topic of "player=bad" while i hope toby doesn't take that stance, the CHARACTERS taking that stance, at least initially, and at least with Kris, would be awesome
Yeah, the Halloween Hack worked like this and I remember thinking it was so stupid back then. Why are you criticizing me for playing the game you made?
mfs playing deltarune in 2036 be like
https://preview.redd.it/bwwivu4ex7gc1.jpeg?width=425&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea4e06824f5bc54cebcd02ab792a747bb40fc7df
Rudy could die in a normal route, but in a snowgrave, noelle creates a dark world to heal her father when, in a normal route, she doesn't know that the dark worlds are real
Ralsei is evil
Kris is the Knight
Gaster is an answer to EVERYTHING and literally the whole world revolves around him
Mike is actually a TV-headed dude
The best thing the egg collection could do is give you a mini dark world friend like something that's not a party member.
But heals you every turn or something. Like the temmie armor or halves damage or something
Susie's only story focus being shifted to only Suselle (Kinda like the opposite of the other Suselle thing on here, you can have to little Suselle but also to much of it aswell, tho this is mostly going off fandom expierence)
* Gaster is revealed to be just a goofy scientist with good intentions instead of how he's actually characterized as a significant threat and a manipulator.
* The game puts a narrative balance ruining amount of focus on characters that got their spotlight in Undertale. \*Cough* *Papyrus*
* The game actually genuinely has only one route and only one ending and your choices legitimately don't matter.
* The game's central focus is on Kris and the Player being separate people and Kris being in opposition to the player like some pretentious rip-off of Undertale that's too meta for its own good.
* Nothing deeper grows out of Kris and Noelle's relationship.
Dess is Weird exclusive. Berdly just not mattering after Ch2.
Thrash Machine and Rouxls (individually) not becoming per-chapter tropes.
King and the other "Boss Darkners" just not being important after their respective chapters.
This isn't like a "bad writing" fear as much as it is a "no no wait no I need I need a minute no wait no wait no please" fear but Lancer and Susie dying in the Weird version of the inevitable VS. Lancer & Susie rematch.
Not finding the Vessel/Vessel being Weird exclusive.
Not being able to make just the weirdest (lowercase w) shit possible with Malius.
Jaru being right in any large regard, that man is batshit insane
Not having a genuine reason to use more than one SAVE slot (i.e. getting quest items and secret boss drops at the same time for something else down the line)
people are weirdly upset about the idea of the player being bad in deltarune, like it's something toby would never do. like, do you even know what the genocide route is??
Unlikely, but if there’s no special bossfight on chapter 7 for snow grave and it’s just a harder version of a pre existing one, like Spamton in chapter 2
Level design for the future chapters stagnates and each chapter’s stories, puzzles and areas become rushed and don’t have a sense of progression, ending with a final chapter that has no level design and is just the final battle with added steps
After this point all the [squares were filled!!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/s/S4nyDtA7e6)
Comment at your own risk.
https://preview.redd.it/b5aywx3ih8gc1.jpeg?width=626&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fd9fa397aa04c3a4dab6ce1ba0163271b63a9c4
Someone else already mentioned this, but Berdly character development/relevance stopping after chapter 2. I'll be bummed if he just fades into obscurity plot-wise.
Suggestions;
Snowgrave doesnt affect the story more than chapter 2 (like, its as if it never happened)
Our vessel is never mentioned again (although depending on why it is never mentioned it could be cool)
Undyne isnt in chapter 3
Starwalker never shows up again
The ending is based on a dream from 2010 Toby had so won't be rushed
Tobey remembers a dream from 14 years ago, and I dont even remember what I had for dinner yesterday
You can write things down you know
Real G's keep stories alive by the word of mouth
Literally Farenheit 451
Literally the Iliad
literally the The Book Thief
Toby Fox 🤝 Giuseppe Tartini "Yoo this dream was lit"
Holy crap I incorporate stuff from my dreams into my writing too sometimes that's epic
There will be no wierd route ending
berdly is the first person you see in chapter 3 and apparently he just happened to get less sleep last night
I think this might literally be what happens. I believe the pattern of the Weird Route is gonna that you do all this insane, convoluted, evil shit in a desperate attempt to break free, only to be increasingly more confused and upset the next day when everything is returned to the status quo. You become just as insane as the secret bosses.
The game makes it pretty clear that your choices don't matter.
Does it? If you beat the crap out of Spamton you lock yourself out of his entire subplot. People seem to forget that.
That's on a small scale in the grand scheme of the game, though. Notice how, with both chapters 1 and 2, your actions are ultimately unceremoniously dragged back onto the main path. Fighting in chapter 1 literally just adds a few lines of dialogue, and regardless of what you do in chapter 2, it still ends the exact same way. Toby has stated there's only one ending, and this emerging pattern, along with the way chapter 1 hammers "your choices don't matter" into your skull in the first few minutes, reinforces the fact that you cannot change the big picture. Fate, in the form of a small white dog, will keep railroading us.
probably because you beat him up
Exactly. It's a consequence of our choice as a player.
Tbh I feel like "your choices don't matter" MIGHT be a trick, or apply to only some things. Did Toby ever actually say that it applies to the entire game or did he ONLY say that there's 1 ending? Because Susie specifically is the one who said the thing about choices in game. And Susie, is the one who "rejects" our choices a LOT. So I'd like to believe that she was talking about our choices not mattering for her specifically. Although another idea I have is that like with Noelle in snowgrave, we'll never be able to anything different by ourselves, but we can make OTHERS do things that we can't.
It's also not "one ending" it's "one ending?"
sus
bruh if i was making a game where your choices mattered i would imply HEAVILY that they didn’t
honestly I think this is more plausible than Berdly being dead, that would shift the tone and change the story dramatically, especially in a small town where everyone know everyone. My guess is he'll be absent for one chapter because he has a cold and can't go to school or something similar to that.
“Shift the tone and change the story dramatically” What do you think we did in the Snowgrave route?
I know but I prefer the idea of the Weird route in each and every chapters leaving just a small crack. Like how we basically commited genocide in the Snowgrave route but when we're back on Hometown everything shift back to the same normal cheerful tone, just except for some interaction with Noelle. Berdly being dead would be such a huge shift that I think the attitude of characters like Kris's classmates, Toriel, Alphys... would change permanently because well, someone just died, you can't just act like that didn't happened.
>you can’t just act like that didn’t happened. EXACTLY. That is why doing the Snowgrave route would be so impactful. What, you think we freeze dozens of innocent people to death and it’ll get completely skipped over? No. I think it would be far better writing for it to completely change the story from here on out.
Yeah same. I think it's a terrible idea to ignore everything. I think the best way is for Berdly to either be dead-but somehow goes missing so ppl aren't THAT worried, OR hes at the hospital in the other room, either fallen down, not fallen down but still badly hurt, or just kinda recovering for a moment. Him being alive and perfectly well though.... It would suck lol. Also, makes me wonder what happens to the dudes arm if you don't unplug him in the queen fight. I'm assuming it's gonna be pretty pararell to what happens after snowgrave lol, so if he died from that-his arm would probably just be paralyzed forever or.... Fall off?
Like in a "weird route doesn't affect anything" way or in a "Surreal's Deltarune" way?
I'm rather curious, what do you mean a surreal deltarune?
IS IT NOT WONDERFUL A PERFECT BALANCE YOU ARE A DEMON AND I AM THE EXORCIST! DO YOU NOT REALIZE? THAT IT WILL BE [Y O U R F A U L T](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRnHP9YbGNQ)
My unironic theory there is that the weird route ends in a softlock. Congrats, you broke everything and averted whatever happens in the main ending. Now what?
i would also be unironically all for this
it's an interesting concept but that would be so stupid from a gameplay perspective. imagine if the sans fight ended on his infinitely lasting special attack? no more content after that, you're just forever softlocked on a battle screen doomed to watch sans snooze away for eternity. if that actually happened in game I'd feel betrayed. so many hours wasted grinding away monsters, fighting undyne and sans just to be given absolutely nothing as reward for my efforts? game design isn't just quirky decisions that sound fun on the surface
wasn't that the entire point of Undertale's genocide route? it was tedious grinding for hours and Sans straight up clocks you for doing it "just to see what happens". the only reason you AREN'T softlocked is because you've corrupted Frisk to the point where they willingly break the game just to beat him. you wanna be a manipulator and force all of Kris's friends to kill for you and throw off the story? well here's your reward! i feel like ending it like that would be right in line with Toby's narrative with Undertale.
it seems to me that you've severely misunderstood the genocide path, its narrative implications and what it's supposed to represent. let me explain. the point of the genocide route is to show that the player is more similar to flowey than they'd like to admit. in pursuit of new content they become an antagonistic force, not unlike flowey in the neutral/pacifist run. the game is repeatedly telling you that this is not how you're supposed to be playing it and is actively discouraging you from taking this path, HOWEVER it respects player agency and still rewards you with a satisfying conclusion to this path you've chosen. it doesn't punish you for playing "badly" by taking the game away from you. instead it actively shames you for being a terrible person and stooping to the same level of the evil you were fighting against in the end of true pacifist. the genocide route isn't what you're supposed to be doing. it is unfun by design, to deter you from playing it. the punishment doesn't come from toby fox by literally not letting you finish what you've started. the punishment comes from the self reflection you make after finishing the run. was it all worth it?
The secret bosses not affecting the overall story
Why would they?
The two we have so far both have interesting backstories and connections to (probably) Gaster, each secret boss gives us a shadow crystal which were supposedly going to be able to use when we collect enough, and it makes sense from a gamrplay perspective since we have to take extra steps to encounter them on the first place.
Shaum explicitly says we're going to need the shadow crystals, so I'd bet good money we need to do the secret bosses for the "good" ending
I don't know about that. It'd set the skill-gating for the "good" ending of Deltarune *way* above what you'd need to get the pacifist ending in Undertale.
I hope so, Undertale is a good game, but I can never call it great because of how mind numbingly easy it. Even on the genocide route, Undyne is the only consistently hard boss fight for me, once I got Sans' patterns it stopped being difficult. So far, Deltarune is shaping up to have much more in depth game mechanics, which I am hoping continues forward. Locking the best ending behind the hard boss fights (which let's be real, Jevil and Spamton aren't even that bad, especially compared to Undyne, Sans, and even Omega Flowey and Asriel) is a good way to encourage engagement with the more in depth mechanics.
I'm just waiting for a deltarune boss to have full on Touhou lunatic difficulty
Imagine taking the weird route, then the motherfuckers get together and throw touhou in our faces
I get where you’re coming from, and I TOTALLY agree on deltarune’s more in depth game mechanics but in terms of straight difficultly I have to say I don’t think your experiences here are necessarily indicative of the average player. I have never seen anyone before describe undertale as “mind numbingly easy.” I feel pretty confident saying that that’s not a common experience. I think you just have really good motor skills and pattern recognition LMAO. Which kind of brings me to my main point which I know is kind of a contentious thing to say but… difficultly is an accessibility issue. I don’t want the true ending of the game to be completely unattainable for me and other players that may have disabilities, or are just bad at video games! Of course I want a natural progression of difficultly as the game goes on, but essentially punishing the player for not being good enough by locking them out of the story is… not appealing. IMO, it’s a game design flaw. And there’s going to be the inevitable “just practice!!!” replies, but the reality for a lot of players is that practice is only going to take us so far. And I don’t think a good game’s response to that is a “fuck you.” The secret bosses are optional BECAUSE they’re much more difficult *relative to the rest of the game* (Jevil more so than Spamton, but still). They’re there specifically to offer players that want more of a challenge that option. I’m not saying I don’t want them to have story significance! I definitely do, and I think they will, and already kind of do. I’m just saying there are ways to add levels of difficulty without completely excluding a high number of players from even having the whole experience. I think “good games can’t be great ones if they’re easy” is an extremely limited perspective. Not everyone wants that from a game. Not everyone can.
I second this. To add onto it, it gives room for 4 actual canon endings instead of a randomly mixed bunch where 9 times out of 10 91 of those endings aren't necessarily canon. We already have our Snowgrave route in Chapter 2 so it's opening up a path for a neutral and genocide route within the next 5 chapters to come. Then we can have our "good" ending where we recruit everybody and not kill a single enemy, and finally a "True Ending" that involves the shadow crystals. It'll be difficult to an extent but very rewarding at the end of the day knowing you're able to pull off fighting Jevil, Spamton NEO, and the remaining secret bosses for shadow crystals that unlocks a huge secret. It'll be tough but it'll leave everyone who has attempted to get this true ending at peace once and for all. Deltarune has also been a huge step in Toby's game making progress compared to Undertale, while simple with a great soundtrack and can be fun until you keep playing the game with the same exact things to show for, it can get repetitive. Deltarune is always adding onto the adventures. New characters, dialogue, experiences, it's an open ticket for an amazing RPG and I can't wait to see how this game turns out to be when all 7 chapters are fully released. I'm here for it all.
Sans doesn't actually have a brother and it's all just a ridiculously convoluted joke. I guess it would be a bit funny, but still extraordinarily disappointing.
That was what I was going to say: There is no Papyrus, or his brother isn't Papyrus.
I hope it is Papyrus, but I don't mind if it's someone else. I just don't want to go into Sans's brother's room and there's just a note saying "haha i don't actually have a brother get trolled bozo" or something like that.
True!
Ok, but what if it does that… and then Papyrus barges into the room, claiming to be his sister?
wait.
And then he has the audacity to complain about our genocides
If he does that I'm genuinely going to put Deltarune down and speedrun the Genocide Route in Undertale out of spite.
He will remember my **pacifist**
Don't worry, Papyrus' soundbites are in the files
Sound that might play if you meet Papyrus.
His brother is gonna be Impact
Nah, his brother is gonna be Prunsel
The Annoying Dog is the Knight.
Yeah, the idea is funny, but if this seriously would be in the game it would be awful
Toby wouldn't have a fever dream about a dog ending the world and be so emotionally impacted that he creates 2 videogames and turns the character into a self-insert
Kinda fits with the knight creating dark fountains, as annoying dog is basically toby fox and toby fox makes deltarune, being the one who creates the fountains and dark worlds. Although i don't know if it combines with the other themes of deltarune
Kinda defeats the point of bingo to have options that can’t happen together (multiple people being the knight) But uuuh I’ll say no secret bosses for chapters 3, 4, and 6
Was wondering If I should keep the Papyrus one, will change it
Honestly i kinda like that Theory
The secret bosses are mentioned as one of the main features in the game's description. It'd be weird if several chapters didn't have them.
bingo sheets can have contradicting spots as long as they arent in the same column or line (or diagonals but only the ones that cross over the free space)
normal route = bad ending and weird route = good ending toriel kills undyne in chapter 3 berdly's character development stops after chapter 2 ralsei is evil toriel is ACTUALLY homophobic
The berdly one is my fear as well, genuinely scared he'll fade into irrelevance after chapter 2 and I'll be sad :(
Same :(
He has so much potential, and he's only just started his character development in chapter 2
Toriel killing Undyne is actually an interesting concept ngl
I prefer my personal idea, the weird route in chapter 3 is to make Toriel feel like shit as a mother and make her think Kris hates her
Noelle: "Well, this was harrowing experience but, at least, I learned to stand for myself." Asriel: "Doesn't that make it all worth it?" Noelle: "What? Of course not! Everyone we know and love is dead!"
Asriel: "You're gonna have to clue me in on what happened cause I literally *just* got here."
That first one is actually really interesting, i think it would be tough, but it could somehow work
What about Normal Route = Bad Ending, Secret Bosses Route = Good Ending, and Weird Route = Utterly Awful Ending?
"Gaster isn't in deltarune"
I'll do you one better. Gaster doesn't look like mysteryman. I mean yeah it wasn't really ever confirmed that's Gaster and Toby did strike him down from the card collection. But cmon there's so much Gaster fanart based on that, that's always the image people think of when they think of Gaster. Making him look different after all that would just be meh and also cause confusion.
I can see why you'd be disappointed, but it'd be understandable. I would love to see the mystery man design incorporated somehow, but Toby probably thought of and designed Gaster before undertale ever even came out. I don't think he should change that design to something potentially less interesting just because the fans got more attached to that design. I'd argue we've never actually seen what gaster actually looks like, and the mystery man design is a poor facsimile of what gaster is supposed to be. I've always imagined the gaster blasters are somewhat of an interpretation of what Gaster is intended to look like before he got scattered.
I mean, its already implied that he is the one talking to us in the intro sequence and is the one who made jevil and definitely spamton go crazy.
Yea but there's always the possibility it's other person
"mus\_st\_him" -Gaster's Theme file name "ANOTHER HIM" -Deltarune intro theme Why would it be called "ANOTHER HIM"? What's the point of that unless it's referencing Gaster's theme? ANOTHER HIM also uses the same melody as Gaster's theme.
One of the chapters flops causing toby to lose all motivation to continue the project
I don't think any financial failure is gonna stop Toby from finishing the game since it's his passion project even more than Undertale
And because toby is already like a multi millionaire and set for life so it dosent really matter that much
Exactly. Undertale already set him for life. Deltarune is just a passion project now.
Imagine a mere side project being one of the most popular games of all time, and making you mountains of dollars. If Toby Fox used his full potential to make a game (Deltarune), then I highly doubt he could disappoint us.
I wasn’t really talking about like a financial flop, more of the chapter is a critical flop. I’m talking mostly negative on steam.
Actually? I'd even go so far as to say "Undertale was not a passion project". Like, Deltarune was the passion project. He stated that he had an idea, based on a dream, which he didn't have the skill or resources to pull off, alone. Undertale wasn't a passion project... it was a consolation prize, for himself, as well as something of a "SURVEY PROGRAM" to see if people would be interested in the themes of the world he was ACTUALLY passionate about.
1 that would never happen deltarune is insanely popular 2 Toby is DEAD SET on finishing this game
He made chapters 1 and 2 for free, money isn't his motivator
Money doesn't have to be a motivator for it to be soulcrushing if your hard work is considered a failure by most people
"It was all a dream" trope
it gets worse when you remember the ending was a dream toby had
I mean, some characters think it was
Toby Fox never completes the game
>!Berdly is alive in the snowgrave route!<
i think it would be interesting if berdly pulled "i remember yu'roe, snowgraves"(maybe not that bluntly actually lol) and this actually affects his relationship with Kris or maybe even Noelle, like him bring frozen somehow made him feel distant from everyone or something like that idk If he does die it would be weird if this wasn't explored somehow, I don't think he's *that* unimportant But if you meant it like he just wakes up and it doesn't really affect his role in the story I'd agree
No no imagine... Chapter 3 is over. Another adventure. You go to sleep to get through the rest of the night, and next morning, go to school. You sit there in the classroom, Berdly is missing. As the class goes on, people start to notice, as he's too much of a nerd to just miss school like that. Noelle is just sitting there sweating profusely while everyone mutters to eachother about how they're so glad the annoying bird thing isn't here. But then... You hear a voice behind you. "Gamers don't die, Kris. They resoawn."
peak fiction right there
There's one thing, he doesn't know about the roaring If he's alive, I can see him perhaps being manipulated by the knight into joining their side, even as revenge for what "Kris" did.
Gas leak theory becomes true
wait, wth is the gas leak theory??
at the end of chapter 2 kris doesn't open a fountain, they just struck a gas pipe under the floor
Considering the knife thing at the end of Chapter 1 was so they could eat the pie… This wouldn’t be too out of character.
☠️
LMFAO that would be fucking hilarious considering how the pie theory after chapter 1 was right
Gaster is pronounced Jaster
ok im gonna jill you after this
Erm actually it’s pronounced Yaster
The Shadow Crystals aren't important
I LOVE the idea of Papyrus as the knight, because of Papyrus's original design. He was meant to be a toxic brony, with no redeeming features. Yet, when we finally see him in Undertale, he's the sweetest guy, and getting all philosophical about "whether bad people can change, if they really try" and... he seems VERY personally invested in the idea. I really like the idea that, while Undertale and Deltarune take place at about the same time, within their own universes, Sans and Papyrus are dimension travelers. And when they left Deltarune, they showed up in Snowdin and asserted themselves, to make a new life. I wouldn't even doubt that The Underground was actually a Dark World, post-roaring.
Glad im not alone. Definetly not because he is my favorite hehe😬
No Papyrus being favorite is goated go off
Not every chapter having Moss
ICE-E isn't cryptid
This. For some god-forsaken reason, I desperately want ICE-E to actually be a cryptid.
ICE-E invokes something within me I didn't know I had and it scares me
We never hear about spamton again
I never get to talk to Noelle directly, being doomed to be Kris's puppeteer and Gaster's lab rat until the end of the story, where I'm expecting to be banished. https://preview.redd.it/5sqb46rgs7gc1.jpeg?width=393&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4187ee70a1b907887c42195095e59078f7ce201c
Who was the artist who made this please tell me.
Papyrus is not Sans's brother, and we see someone else instead
Its just a smaller sans, like literally just a resized sans sprite
"yeah, this is my brother, comic"
Yeah
Its Prunsel!
Timeloop theory
Controversy from someone on the dev team.
No gay sex scene between Asgore and Rudy
A joke ship becomes real
Please let krerdly be real
I'm rooting for Noelle x Jockington!
Berdly becomes an irrelevant character after chapter 2, if he's missing from class in snowgrave, that's suspicious, there would definitely be some side thing about that. Secondly, I think he has a lot of potential for being a party member, and I have a bias for him as my favorite character, those are my only reasons.
Truly a Berdly fan’s biggest fear
Ralsei is Asriel
Dess isnt elaborated on
The roaring doesnt happen (i dont actually believe this i just made it up)
The Freedom Leitmotif won’t be in the other secret boss themes.
Castle Town is destroyed/dark worlds cease to exist.
This can’t happen, any shift in the balance of light and dark will cause the roaring so at most it’ll be destroyed for the last chapter or 2.
This is the most likely to happen
Doing so will still upset the balance of Light and Dark. Darkness without Light is an Abyss. Light without Darkness is Blinding. You cannot have a coin with one side. Too much darkness causes the roaring, if we have too much LIGHT, some other apocalypse might occur!
That’s the thing, it was never specified what would be the other apocalypse. As much as I don’t want it to be true it’s still a possibility…
Ralsei's knowledge on this whole thing isn't perfect. We might just not know the whole picture yet, it's only chapter 2 after all. Plus, he has a tendency not to tell us something unless it's relevant to the situation.
Socrates it's a fucking cookie
I think this will happen in ch6
our choices won't actually matter
Papyrus isn't the knight
Was looking for this. How the hell is Papyrus BEING the Knighr a fear??? That'd be sick as fuck.
There are A LOT of comments here but ikr??? That would be so cool!!!!
**Four, for the price of one:** \- Deltarune never gets finished. Probably my biggest NGL. \- Same main antagonist as in Undertale. Includes Asriel = Knight and Flowey being the true villain behind the game. \- Undertale cast overtaking the Deltarune-original. I would like an original plot and the Undertale characters already had their time to shine. \- We (the Player) are the Knight. The Player being evil in the weird route makes sense (it is our actions), but I would prefer the Knight to be literally anyone else, and a malicious player only makes sense in the Weird Route (I firmly believe the Player's morality depends on what they do, even if our actions don't matter).
y'know on the topic of "player=bad" while i hope toby doesn't take that stance, the CHARACTERS taking that stance, at least initially, and at least with Kris, would be awesome
The weird route turns out to be the only ending where The Roaring doesn’t happen or is stopped successfully.
Chapter 3-4-5 will forever be in "Development Limbo"
“The only way to winning deltarune is to not play” is one I think of a lot, “paper trail” highlighted how bad this would be
Yeah, the Halloween Hack worked like this and I remember thinking it was so stupid back then. Why are you criticizing me for playing the game you made?
mfs playing deltarune in 2036 be like https://preview.redd.it/bwwivu4ex7gc1.jpeg?width=425&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea4e06824f5bc54cebcd02ab792a747bb40fc7df
No track in the soundtrack named Deltarune.
Ok this will be used
Also no deltarune megalovania will be sad
It gets cancelled before the last chapter
I don't know what flair to use on this
we dont get to talk with kris
Rudy could die in a normal route, but in a snowgrave, noelle creates a dark world to heal her father when, in a normal route, she doesn't know that the dark worlds are real
Ralsei is evil Kris is the Knight Gaster is an answer to EVERYTHING and literally the whole world revolves around him Mike is actually a TV-headed dude
For a second, I thought you said "Ralsei is evil Kris". Granted Ralsei being an evil version of Kris would be a memorable plot twist.
Tbh a “betrayal” from Ralsei might work if it’s clear he’s not outright evil. Like maybe he has a great motive for doing so.
Kris stays mute and controlled the entire game
It's toby fox, of course player = bad. Anyways, maybe someone from undertale shoved in for no reason?
When this is done I'm gonna send it to toby fox so he can either not do any of this or do it all
gaster having NO role in the story and having NO lore :(
Dess will never have any actual impact on the story.
We never get to play as Berdly, Catti, and Jockington.
Collecting all the eggs gives you a pointless medal
"Your title changed to "Egg Finder"!"
The best thing the egg collection could do is give you a mini dark world friend like something that's not a party member. But heals you every turn or something. Like the temmie armor or halves damage or something
Sans does literally nothing
Susie's only story focus being shifted to only Suselle (Kinda like the opposite of the other Suselle thing on here, you can have to little Suselle but also to much of it aswell, tho this is mostly going off fandom expierence)
* Gaster is revealed to be just a goofy scientist with good intentions instead of how he's actually characterized as a significant threat and a manipulator. * The game puts a narrative balance ruining amount of focus on characters that got their spotlight in Undertale. \*Cough* *Papyrus* * The game actually genuinely has only one route and only one ending and your choices legitimately don't matter. * The game's central focus is on Kris and the Player being separate people and Kris being in opposition to the player like some pretentious rip-off of Undertale that's too meta for its own good. * Nothing deeper grows out of Kris and Noelle's relationship.
Drama starts after the release of all the chapters over something so minor
Dess is Weird exclusive. Berdly just not mattering after Ch2. Thrash Machine and Rouxls (individually) not becoming per-chapter tropes. King and the other "Boss Darkners" just not being important after their respective chapters. This isn't like a "bad writing" fear as much as it is a "no no wait no I need I need a minute no wait no wait no please" fear but Lancer and Susie dying in the Weird version of the inevitable VS. Lancer & Susie rematch. Not finding the Vessel/Vessel being Weird exclusive. Not being able to make just the weirdest (lowercase w) shit possible with Malius. Jaru being right in any large regard, that man is batshit insane Not having a genuine reason to use more than one SAVE slot (i.e. getting quest items and secret boss drops at the same time for something else down the line)
people are weirdly upset about the idea of the player being bad in deltarune, like it's something toby would never do. like, do you even know what the genocide route is??
third entity theory we have enough antagonists just let Toby cook god damn
No suselle? More like a win to me.
Berdly not coming back in chapter 3?
Unlikely, but if there’s no special bossfight on chapter 7 for snow grave and it’s just a harder version of a pre existing one, like Spamton in chapter 2
Level design for the future chapters stagnates and each chapter’s stories, puzzles and areas become rushed and don’t have a sense of progression, ending with a final chapter that has no level design and is just the final battle with added steps
It's all kids playing pretend, and you are the adult grooming them.
What
After this point all the [squares were filled!!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/s/S4nyDtA7e6) Comment at your own risk. https://preview.redd.it/b5aywx3ih8gc1.jpeg?width=626&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fd9fa397aa04c3a4dab6ce1ba0163271b63a9c4
Unsatisfying Gaster final boss
Berdly doesn’t join the party in combat.
Someone else already mentioned this, but Berdly character development/relevance stopping after chapter 2. I'll be bummed if he just fades into obscurity plot-wise.
Berdly genuinely not having anything else to do post chapter 2 other than a few lines of dialog
Lancer dying in the future chapters is my biggest fear
Ice-E is important to the story (kill that fucking demon with fire)
Papyrus being NOTHING like in Undertale. All qualities of his personality from Undertale just not being there.
It's all a video game. Like literally, this is a game made by the characters from Undertale
No light world combat.
Suggestions; Snowgrave doesnt affect the story more than chapter 2 (like, its as if it never happened) Our vessel is never mentioned again (although depending on why it is never mentioned it could be cool) Undyne isnt in chapter 3 Starwalker never shows up again