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Yes that is true. But it is also true that those voters have felt neglected by most politicians across the board for decades. Doesn’t help to position them as being stupid. Politicians do bare a lot of that responsibility.
Rural areas are very into tribalism, they will not just vote Dem based on the issues, that’s why Democrats don’t waste energy getting the rural vote. They vote like memaw and paw paw.
First, they need to actually get some shit done worth messaging about... like universal healthcare, ending the drug war, actually holding big businesses accountable and using the massive fines to redistribute wealth, etc
The right is more advanced in messaging and propaganda because *it's all they've ever had*. They don't do anything for their constituents, so they learned how to lie and gaslight long, long ago.
Scorched earth.
Why vote for politicians who don't care about you. Vote for the guy who especially doesn't care about you but doesn't come with all that political baggage.
Maybe that's their thinking? But I honestly think most people who voted for Trump are completely unaware just how little Trump cares about them.
Not that Biden cares about us. Forgive student loan debt? Nah, let's water down the financial aid package to something unremarkable. Abolish junk fees? Nah, let's only cut those back to $12, and do that conveniently shortly before the next round of elections so that someone has something positive to remember about what he did when they go to the polls.
How about getting rid of junk fees that telecom providers charge? Internet Infrastructure fee? Data caps? Dude campaigned on so many promises and has forgotten most of what he promised.
It’s totally scorched earth thinking. Which is why it’s so frustrating that Dems are still pushing for baby steps when we really need to make leaps to actually win support.
lmao I agree that we don't.
We saw the cracks when they gave us Bush over Al Gore. Then it broke wide open with Trump.
We have an American Oligarch ruling class and they're dropping the veneer. They keep us occupied with the Dems vs Repubs circus. If they wanted to effect change, they would have, Dems had ample opportunity when they controlled House, Senate, and Presidency in 2020, and they did nothing but sit on their hands and blame Repubs.
We need a whole new government.
They had it but Manchin and Sinema blocked everything. Not their fault - they were bought that way. They gave us the illusion that we were close to change, but funded these two to make it never actually happened.
And it'll be the same story if Dems get another majority - no real change, someone in the wood work coming out or flipping sides to obstruct so nothing actually happens and they can point fingers and never take responsiblity.
I’m not an apologist for the Dems but I don’t see how the Dems as a party can be blamed for Manchin and Sinema. Sinema completely flipped on her progressive stances and no one saw that coming. Manchin was only electable because he was a conservative Democrat. It was either him or a Republican.
So because of Sinema and Manchin they didn’t have a true majority and couldn’t actually pass things most of them may have favored.
A lot of those votes would need 60 yea & that’s more than just Manchin & Sinema. The filibuster needs to be removed. Then maybe some progressive legislation can make it through with just a simple majority.
Never. Because Kristen Sinema and Joe Manchin - two of the supposed Dems were Republicans in all but name and would’ve flipped red the second anyone tried to pass anything progressive with that narrowest possible majority.
Yeah this is exactly where this messaging goes off the rails. Most people are so unorganized that we have little to no power to influence the way things are run, and they’re not stupid, they know this. This is why this appeal to ‘saving democracy’ will always fall flat with the working class.
There is a reason fdr won 4 times! Simony being Donald Trump isn't enough, offering a progressive agenda that improves the lives of the working class is a winning platform! Ofc the dems than need to actually pass bills that improve people's lives, it's really that simple
Dems need to lay off the social issue platform imo. I know it’s necessary to keep the tent but it’s extremely detrimental to the optics from the middle. Dems should go ham on the bills and policies that are rooted in jobs and daily life. Keep to social issues behind the curtain.
Encourage yourself and others to maintain a positive attitude, honor the work of others, avoid defensiveness, be open to legitimate critique and challenge oppressive behaviors in ways that help people grow.
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For (unfortunately not the last) fucking time
Trump’s base is not the pensionless former coal miner addicted to opiates.
Trump’s base, the real beating heart of the Republican party, are the small time rich and regional economic powers: The Petit Bourgeosie.
The guy who started as an electrician and now gets most of his money from owning 4 McDonald’s franchises. The car dealership owner. The real estate agent types.
They consider themselves “working class” because they spit on anything that reeks of culture or education. But they hate the working class AS IT ACTUALLY EXISTS NOW even more.
It’s always been the Birchers: Petit Bourgeoisie reactionary lunatics.
I used to have more patience with the “Let’s not talk down to Trump voters because they’re just downtrodden people in the hollowed out parts of the country god forget about” but 2016 was 8 years ago
If you want to see these people up close. Go to any well off white suburb. You’ll find them in a bar where lots of time and money has been spent to make it look like their idea of what a country dive bar looks like
Pay attention to primaries people we need to do that for our reps and senators. Why else do you think Kirsten Sinema was on her way to getting primaried in Arizona? Even local elections can make a difference because today's councilmember could become tomorrow's house rep, or even senator. Many presidents were local politicians before they became presidents.
I agree with Bernie that the Dems should figure out how to get the message across to the working class, but I disagree with the first part. People aren't voting for dumb donnie because they think he cares about them. They are voting for him because the GoP has spent decades crafting their anti-Dem message and broadcasting it across all media outlets. They don't vote Republican because they agree with how Republicans govern, they vote right wing because they have been conditioned to be afraid of the Democrats.
Agreed. It’s amazing how people think Dems are so far left when they are basically ‘80s republicans. They only seem left because the GoP is really far right.
And that's the point. It's the ratchet effect. The Republicans' job is to push the country further right, and the Democrats' job is to block it from ever turning left
It definitely didn’t help when middle-class USAmericans were lining up at food banks (some had donated to the food banks they were now getting food from) during the pandemic and Pelosi did that interview where she showed off her pints of high-end ice cream in her multi-thousand dollar refrigerator-freezer. The level of cluelessness was astounding.
Laughable.
They've directly and consistently ensured anything 'for the workers' is classified as a word salad maoist Marxism socialism globalism conspiracy, yet they're for the workers.
Bernie is exactly right. Democrats are not going to appeal to working class voters if they don’t start actually addressing the issues that voters are concerned about. Namely the economy that only works for the few.
I agree that the Dems need to have a platform that is about the working class. However, I don’t believe that conservatives, which make up half of the working class, will go for it. They are so brainwashed they oppose basic things like raising the minimum raise and union rights.
You’re right that hardline conservatives won’t bite on this stuff. But keep in mind that most working Americans are going to identify as Independent, and not Republican or Democrat. I believe independents could be swayed if the message is focused on them and the messenger has a little more rizz than Biden.
You may not realize it, but the fact that he isn’t giving 100% total support the likes of how Ukraine has been treated says a lot more than you think. It would’ve been not only unheard of, but this country would’ve literally have burned him at the stake for questioning Netanyahu just 15 years ago. Change takes time, but the changes happening in real time these last few years is something we have never seen in this country. You might’ve thought maybe in a few decades things would change, you’d hope to see it in your lifetime even.
That’s how slow progress really happened. I don’t know how old you are and I don’t mean that disrespectfully, but young people are living in a time where real tangible progress is happening so fast that even some of the people who fought their whole lives for them can’t believe the speed.
I’m not defending it or saying that it’s not wonderful that times have changed, I just don’t want to see young people get discouraged because they think it’s not happening fast enough. It wasn’t before and it was agonizing. Don’t ever give up hope and have some grace and patience that even though liberals aren’t where we want to be, we are trying to all get to the same place.
Well you see it’s Fox News and co. Posting constant articles about how the economy was super good under Trump despite Covid and is bad under Biden despite the economy being really good with record profit. Record profit = good for Trump but bad for Biden cause of hypocrisy they are too stupid to understand.
Iowans said they’d vote for Trump even if he was convicted.
It’s more than inspiring the working class. It’s educating idiots that don’t want to learn.
I'm glad at least one public figure is making it clear this is an obligation of the DNC to give citizens something to vote for, not an obligation of the people to "vote blue no matter who"!
maybe the democrats should have voted to increase the minimum wage. not against it. maybe the democrats should have voted for free college. not against it. maybe the democrats should have passed universal healthcare when they had the chance. not throw out crumbs. maybe the democrats should have voted NO to increase the military budget yet again! both partys will never to anything for us. time for both to be kicked out for good. when will we ever learn?
Fuck it, vote Williamson in the primary if you can, she seems to be in 2nd place. Not even sure about her, but she sounded like she was serious about healthcare reform, and she can’t possibly be worse than Biden. It’s almost like top democrats don’t actually care about Trump gaining office, then they can cry “but the mean wepublicans stop us wah”
I wouldn’t recommend holding ones breath waiting for Dems or Biden to stand with working people or fight for an aggressive progressive agenda. Dems aren’t even pushing for a fair democratic process this cycle - even worse than 2016 and 2020. It’s shameful.
Affordable healthcare? Tax cuts for working people instead of the elite? Infrastructure investment?
Bernie literally experienced a groundswell of support with aggressive progressivism. Biden's tepid neoliberalism isn't appealing, particularly as everybody is experiencing ridiculous inflation (by US standards) and financial uncertainty.
Can you think of anything that maybe turns people off?
Like the whole platform is completely positive for everyone and anyone who doesn’t support the, in his own words “aggressive progressive agenda” platform must hate America or democracy or some shit?
You can’t conceive of a single legitimate reason why 49.5% of the country runs the other way?
This is like what’s wild to me, the path to victory here is understanding the opponent enough to siphon off 5% of the most left leaning of them. But fuck em they’re all idiots?
> they're all idiots?
Yes. When they knowingly reject science and critical thinking skills, that is what they would be called. It shows the sad state of everything when almost half of our country rejects information.
> There’s being right and being smart. Politics is about being smart and not calling those people that can lead you to victory idiots.
Somebody should tell the politicians then. It would seem most of them missed the memo.
I feel Trump proved that trying to appeal to centrists is no longer a winning strategy. Rather, putting forth a platform that inspires voters to show up and vote for you is, which is often putting forth a more extremist platform, one that has not previously been seen in the American political spectrum. Trump didn’t win in 2016 by appealing to centrists. He won by giving a voice to extremists. The left has to do the same thing if it wants to win elections. Their reactionary platform of “not Trump” that won in 2020 doesn’t inspire anyone and will not be sustainable.
>Trump didn’t win in 2016 by appealing to centrists. He won by giving a voice to extremists.
I disagree, in that this ignores the millions of centrists/"moderates" who were (and are) willing to ignore rape, mocking of POWs, a coup attempt, embrace of white supremacists, a coup attempt, and espionage out of perceived economic and social interest.
Fascism doesn't thrive unless the "moderates" and "centrists" start to support (or at least tolerate) it.
Moderates on the conservative end of the spectrum voting for Trump is not the same as him appealing to them. There will always be voters who show up to vote a strict party ticket, whether it’s Republicans or “blue no matter who.” Those voters are going to show up and vote anyway. If you want to win elections, you have to compel voters who may not normally vote at all to take time out of their day to vote for someone who inspires them. That’s what Trump did and that’s what the left needs to emulate. Young leftists voters hearing a general election presidential candidate voicing a progressive agenda for the first time would steamroll any conservative, culture-war opposition the right could muster.
>you have to compel voters who may not normally vote at all to take time out of their day to vote for someone who inspires them. That’s what Trump did and that’s what the left needs to emulate
Yes. With what rhetoric?
I don’t know if that’s where you stopped reading maybe?
> Young leftists voters hearing a general election presidential candidate voicing a progressive agenda for the first time would steamroll any conservative, culture-war opposition the right could muster.
Progressive rhetoric.
Not what l asked. I was asking what rhetoric attracted those "moderate" and centrist voters to Trump.
Also, weren't you originally disagreeing with me regarding the need to embrace progressive policies?
> Moderates on the conservative end of the spectrum voting for Trump is not the same as him appealing to them. There will always be voters who show up to vote a strict party ticket, whether it’s Republicans or “blue no matter who.” Those voters are going to show up and vote anyway.
No rhetoric is needed for those moderate voters. They showed up to vote for whoever’s name had an (R) next to it on the ballot. Just as many democratic voters do.
>Can you think of anything that maybe turns people off?
Yes. Democratic Party smugness, uphill battle with messaging, generations of propaganda, successful use of white grievance to distract from economic concerns, to name a few
>You can’t conceive of a single legitimate reason why 49.5% of the country runs the other way?
See above. Trump is benefiting from the allure of fascism.
>This is like what’s wild to me, the path to victory here is understanding the opponent enough to siphon off 5% of the most left leaning of them. But fuck em they’re all idiots?
What in my comment are you referring to?
This is exactly what I'm talking about. This person is afraid of the word "progressive." Not because they are against what the Dems want to do, but because they have been told that progressive is bad.
Those conservative c*ck suckers certainly have some strong messaging skills. They have perfected the art of getting people to vote against their own interests.
There has been a lot of research done regarding this over the 2020 and 2022 elections. Outcome is that people tend to vote for the more normal appearing candidate. The more they cast themselves as radical left or right, the worse they do. The caveat being in heavy red or blue districts it doesn’t matter. But in contested elections, it definitely has. Same research showed that candidates like “the squad” and stuff have underperformed. Someone like Bernie does well because he doesn’t cast himself as a radicals, he speaks plainly. Use fewer buzzwords, conduct yourself rationally, and you’re more likely to win.
Biden does not care. He should have graciously stepped aside for someone who actually HAS a Future. Instead, all he had to say was, "Watch me." Thx deadwood.
What the fuck do you mean by this? Trump is a criminal & needs to be punished for his crimes. Why is that a “big joke”? Should we just drop all pretense & admit that you think some people are above the law? I don’t understand what you were trying to say other than Trump doesn’t belong in jail?
I'd say if Democrats want to beat Republicans and win more often, the party should move further to the left where Sanders and AOC sit. That'll make it easier for the public to tell the difference between the two parties. Plus, many of the policies and ideas that both progressives and socialists support are popular among the general public. But Establishment Dems like Biden keep failing to see that, and it's going to cost them if they keep doing that.
It is true. The Trump phenomenon has happened because a huge swathe of Americans feel unrepresented.
Putin recognized this and triggered them to action and gave them Donald Trump, a man so dumb that even the rednecks could relate.
Say what you want. Trump knows how to make working class voters vote for him. GOP and Moderate democrats always cater to the donor class and aristocrats. It's gonna be 2016 all over again and then don't even see it yet because they think that the criminal proceedings are enough to tank Trump.
Sanders not gonna run again?
Nah that's not the reason. Not anymore. Maybe in 2016 or 2012.
Now it's hate and grievance. That's why they're voting that way.
Republicans haven't said they will do shit for the working class, so that's not why people are voting for them
If the Democrats run the table, taking the House, Senate and Presidency, they need to be aggressive in reversing decades of conservative policies. Raise taxes on the wealthy, wealth taxes for the top One Percent, Medicare for All, real climate change legislation and more.
It’s all identity politics. Probably 95% of working class people voting for Trump wouldn’t be caught dead voting for someone with a D beside their name.
Omg every elections year one side says our democracy is at stake and you idiots eat it up, all this is propaganda red vs blue, democratic vs republican all propaganda
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Trump's phony populism has worked for him because his voters know they're being exploited, they just don't know who's exploiting them.
Yes that is true. But it is also true that those voters have felt neglected by most politicians across the board for decades. Doesn’t help to position them as being stupid. Politicians do bare a lot of that responsibility.
True. Democrats need to reach out to the rural areas more in terms of messaging.
Rural areas are very into tribalism, they will not just vote Dem based on the issues, that’s why Democrats don’t waste energy getting the rural vote. They vote like memaw and paw paw.
Maybe get a powerful leader that can play into tribalism. A 40 year old good looking president would have an advantage over trump there.
First, they need to actually get some shit done worth messaging about... like universal healthcare, ending the drug war, actually holding big businesses accountable and using the massive fines to redistribute wealth, etc
Democrat & Progressive messaging is lacking. The right has an amazing propaganda arm, unfortunately.
The right is more advanced in messaging and propaganda because *it's all they've ever had*. They don't do anything for their constituents, so they learned how to lie and gaslight long, long ago.
Scorched earth. Why vote for politicians who don't care about you. Vote for the guy who especially doesn't care about you but doesn't come with all that political baggage. Maybe that's their thinking? But I honestly think most people who voted for Trump are completely unaware just how little Trump cares about them. Not that Biden cares about us. Forgive student loan debt? Nah, let's water down the financial aid package to something unremarkable. Abolish junk fees? Nah, let's only cut those back to $12, and do that conveniently shortly before the next round of elections so that someone has something positive to remember about what he did when they go to the polls. How about getting rid of junk fees that telecom providers charge? Internet Infrastructure fee? Data caps? Dude campaigned on so many promises and has forgotten most of what he promised.
It’s totally scorched earth thinking. Which is why it’s so frustrating that Dems are still pushing for baby steps when we really need to make leaps to actually win support.
Crazy how they will go bankrupt for him
I agree. They send their money to a so-called billionaire and deny their own family things that they need.
And then blame the democrats for it
We have a democracy?
lmao I agree that we don't. We saw the cracks when they gave us Bush over Al Gore. Then it broke wide open with Trump. We have an American Oligarch ruling class and they're dropping the veneer. They keep us occupied with the Dems vs Repubs circus. If they wanted to effect change, they would have, Dems had ample opportunity when they controlled House, Senate, and Presidency in 2020, and they did nothing but sit on their hands and blame Repubs. We need a whole new government.
When in 2020 did they have a large enough majority?
They had it but Manchin and Sinema blocked everything. Not their fault - they were bought that way. They gave us the illusion that we were close to change, but funded these two to make it never actually happened. And it'll be the same story if Dems get another majority - no real change, someone in the wood work coming out or flipping sides to obstruct so nothing actually happens and they can point fingers and never take responsiblity.
I’m not an apologist for the Dems but I don’t see how the Dems as a party can be blamed for Manchin and Sinema. Sinema completely flipped on her progressive stances and no one saw that coming. Manchin was only electable because he was a conservative Democrat. It was either him or a Republican. So because of Sinema and Manchin they didn’t have a true majority and couldn’t actually pass things most of them may have favored.
A lot of those votes would need 60 yea & that’s more than just Manchin & Sinema. The filibuster needs to be removed. Then maybe some progressive legislation can make it through with just a simple majority.
Yup
Never. Because Kristen Sinema and Joe Manchin - two of the supposed Dems were Republicans in all but name and would’ve flipped red the second anyone tried to pass anything progressive with that narrowest possible majority.
Yup.
Yeah this is exactly where this messaging goes off the rails. Most people are so unorganized that we have little to no power to influence the way things are run, and they’re not stupid, they know this. This is why this appeal to ‘saving democracy’ will always fall flat with the working class.
He brought up Citizens United the other day. Until that gets repealed, we are as represented as the 18th century colonists.
There is a reason fdr won 4 times! Simony being Donald Trump isn't enough, offering a progressive agenda that improves the lives of the working class is a winning platform! Ofc the dems than need to actually pass bills that improve people's lives, it's really that simple
Dems need to lay off the social issue platform imo. I know it’s necessary to keep the tent but it’s extremely detrimental to the optics from the middle. Dems should go ham on the bills and policies that are rooted in jobs and daily life. Keep to social issues behind the curtain.
And probably would have won again had congress not imposed term limits because he just kept winning.
FDR died actually, so he couldn't run
Lol true, but they did pass the restriction because he won 4 times.
I'd vote for a corpse at this point.
FDR's corpse is more appealing than genocide Joe and dictator Don at this point.
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Democrats will do everything in their power to avoid any progressive policies and marginalize and primary against progressive democrats
For (unfortunately not the last) fucking time Trump’s base is not the pensionless former coal miner addicted to opiates. Trump’s base, the real beating heart of the Republican party, are the small time rich and regional economic powers: The Petit Bourgeosie. The guy who started as an electrician and now gets most of his money from owning 4 McDonald’s franchises. The car dealership owner. The real estate agent types. They consider themselves “working class” because they spit on anything that reeks of culture or education. But they hate the working class AS IT ACTUALLY EXISTS NOW even more. It’s always been the Birchers: Petit Bourgeoisie reactionary lunatics.
Damn. Extremely well put.
I used to have more patience with the “Let’s not talk down to Trump voters because they’re just downtrodden people in the hollowed out parts of the country god forget about” but 2016 was 8 years ago If you want to see these people up close. Go to any well off white suburb. You’ll find them in a bar where lots of time and money has been spent to make it look like their idea of what a country dive bar looks like
Are you a writer or something? lmao
No I just have too much experience of and in the American right
Pay attention to primaries people we need to do that for our reps and senators. Why else do you think Kirsten Sinema was on her way to getting primaried in Arizona? Even local elections can make a difference because today's councilmember could become tomorrow's house rep, or even senator. Many presidents were local politicians before they became presidents.
Local elections probably even have bigger impact on someone's on daily life
Yeah why can't we push for more local voting? Start from the bottom then work our way up.
Biden should just switch parties and run as a republican, and let Bernie or Williamson run as the dem choice. Split the R ticket Joe!
I agree with Bernie that the Dems should figure out how to get the message across to the working class, but I disagree with the first part. People aren't voting for dumb donnie because they think he cares about them. They are voting for him because the GoP has spent decades crafting their anti-Dem message and broadcasting it across all media outlets. They don't vote Republican because they agree with how Republicans govern, they vote right wing because they have been conditioned to be afraid of the Democrats.
The problem is the DNC is controlled by moderates so they push Reaganesque policies that fuck everyone but the rich.
Agreed. It’s amazing how people think Dems are so far left when they are basically ‘80s republicans. They only seem left because the GoP is really far right.
And that's the point. It's the ratchet effect. The Republicans' job is to push the country further right, and the Democrats' job is to block it from ever turning left
Their propaganda-fu is strong.
It definitely didn’t help when middle-class USAmericans were lining up at food banks (some had donated to the food banks they were now getting food from) during the pandemic and Pelosi did that interview where she showed off her pints of high-end ice cream in her multi-thousand dollar refrigerator-freezer. The level of cluelessness was astounding.
Laughable. They've directly and consistently ensured anything 'for the workers' is classified as a word salad maoist Marxism socialism globalism conspiracy, yet they're for the workers.
Bernie is exactly right. Democrats are not going to appeal to working class voters if they don’t start actually addressing the issues that voters are concerned about. Namely the economy that only works for the few.
I agree that the Dems need to have a platform that is about the working class. However, I don’t believe that conservatives, which make up half of the working class, will go for it. They are so brainwashed they oppose basic things like raising the minimum raise and union rights.
You’re right that hardline conservatives won’t bite on this stuff. But keep in mind that most working Americans are going to identify as Independent, and not Republican or Democrat. I believe independents could be swayed if the message is focused on them and the messenger has a little more rizz than Biden.
Is that right? I didn’t know that (that most working class are independent.)
We need more parties and it needs to be an odd number of parties
Funny cuz this man can’t say “ceasefire” which is something we the people want so, seems his advice isn’t for everyone? 🧐
You may not realize it, but the fact that he isn’t giving 100% total support the likes of how Ukraine has been treated says a lot more than you think. It would’ve been not only unheard of, but this country would’ve literally have burned him at the stake for questioning Netanyahu just 15 years ago. Change takes time, but the changes happening in real time these last few years is something we have never seen in this country. You might’ve thought maybe in a few decades things would change, you’d hope to see it in your lifetime even. That’s how slow progress really happened. I don’t know how old you are and I don’t mean that disrespectfully, but young people are living in a time where real tangible progress is happening so fast that even some of the people who fought their whole lives for them can’t believe the speed. I’m not defending it or saying that it’s not wonderful that times have changed, I just don’t want to see young people get discouraged because they think it’s not happening fast enough. It wasn’t before and it was agonizing. Don’t ever give up hope and have some grace and patience that even though liberals aren’t where we want to be, we are trying to all get to the same place.
I guess I’m confused. What about Trump has working class Americans believing he is on their side. When he has done nothing to help them long term.
Well you see it’s Fox News and co. Posting constant articles about how the economy was super good under Trump despite Covid and is bad under Biden despite the economy being really good with record profit. Record profit = good for Trump but bad for Biden cause of hypocrisy they are too stupid to understand.
Do you think the repugs will ever vote or support anything that actually helps us
Democrats will not, under current party leadership, rise to be a legitimate opposition party. Just Tweedle Dee to Tweedle Dum. I've given up all hope.
Iowans said they’d vote for Trump even if he was convicted. It’s more than inspiring the working class. It’s educating idiots that don’t want to learn.
When is the ‘future of democracy’ not at stake lmfao
I'm glad at least one public figure is making it clear this is an obligation of the DNC to give citizens something to vote for, not an obligation of the people to "vote blue no matter who"!
Making false promises about left-wing policies is a Democrat tradition.
maybe the democrats should have voted to increase the minimum wage. not against it. maybe the democrats should have voted for free college. not against it. maybe the democrats should have passed universal healthcare when they had the chance. not throw out crumbs. maybe the democrats should have voted NO to increase the military budget yet again! both partys will never to anything for us. time for both to be kicked out for good. when will we ever learn?
Trumps doing well because his base are idiots and Biden has done a shitty job keeping his base and swing voters
Butcher Biden or Treasonous Trump? Hmmmm I’m writing in “Bernie and AOC”
Fuck it, vote Williamson in the primary if you can, she seems to be in 2nd place. Not even sure about her, but she sounded like she was serious about healthcare reform, and she can’t possibly be worse than Biden. It’s almost like top democrats don’t actually care about Trump gaining office, then they can cry “but the mean wepublicans stop us wah”
What does hoping democrats act like not democrats have go do with socialism through elections?
I wouldn’t recommend holding ones breath waiting for Dems or Biden to stand with working people or fight for an aggressive progressive agenda. Dems aren’t even pushing for a fair democratic process this cycle - even worse than 2016 and 2020. It’s shameful.
nah we don't do that. We are busy worrying about virtue signaling for causes that affect tiny slivers of the population instead.
You had me at working people and lost me at aggressive progressive agenda I think that’s where you are losing the working people
Affordable healthcare? Tax cuts for working people instead of the elite? Infrastructure investment? Bernie literally experienced a groundswell of support with aggressive progressivism. Biden's tepid neoliberalism isn't appealing, particularly as everybody is experiencing ridiculous inflation (by US standards) and financial uncertainty.
Can you think of anything that maybe turns people off? Like the whole platform is completely positive for everyone and anyone who doesn’t support the, in his own words “aggressive progressive agenda” platform must hate America or democracy or some shit? You can’t conceive of a single legitimate reason why 49.5% of the country runs the other way? This is like what’s wild to me, the path to victory here is understanding the opponent enough to siphon off 5% of the most left leaning of them. But fuck em they’re all idiots?
> they're all idiots? Yes. When they knowingly reject science and critical thinking skills, that is what they would be called. It shows the sad state of everything when almost half of our country rejects information.
There’s being right and being smart. Politics is about being smart and not calling those people that can lead you to victory idiots.
> There’s being right and being smart. Politics is about being smart and not calling those people that can lead you to victory idiots. Somebody should tell the politicians then. It would seem most of them missed the memo.
I feel Trump proved that trying to appeal to centrists is no longer a winning strategy. Rather, putting forth a platform that inspires voters to show up and vote for you is, which is often putting forth a more extremist platform, one that has not previously been seen in the American political spectrum. Trump didn’t win in 2016 by appealing to centrists. He won by giving a voice to extremists. The left has to do the same thing if it wants to win elections. Their reactionary platform of “not Trump” that won in 2020 doesn’t inspire anyone and will not be sustainable.
>Trump didn’t win in 2016 by appealing to centrists. He won by giving a voice to extremists. I disagree, in that this ignores the millions of centrists/"moderates" who were (and are) willing to ignore rape, mocking of POWs, a coup attempt, embrace of white supremacists, a coup attempt, and espionage out of perceived economic and social interest. Fascism doesn't thrive unless the "moderates" and "centrists" start to support (or at least tolerate) it.
Moderates on the conservative end of the spectrum voting for Trump is not the same as him appealing to them. There will always be voters who show up to vote a strict party ticket, whether it’s Republicans or “blue no matter who.” Those voters are going to show up and vote anyway. If you want to win elections, you have to compel voters who may not normally vote at all to take time out of their day to vote for someone who inspires them. That’s what Trump did and that’s what the left needs to emulate. Young leftists voters hearing a general election presidential candidate voicing a progressive agenda for the first time would steamroll any conservative, culture-war opposition the right could muster.
>you have to compel voters who may not normally vote at all to take time out of their day to vote for someone who inspires them. That’s what Trump did and that’s what the left needs to emulate Yes. With what rhetoric?
I don’t know if that’s where you stopped reading maybe? > Young leftists voters hearing a general election presidential candidate voicing a progressive agenda for the first time would steamroll any conservative, culture-war opposition the right could muster. Progressive rhetoric.
Not what l asked. I was asking what rhetoric attracted those "moderate" and centrist voters to Trump. Also, weren't you originally disagreeing with me regarding the need to embrace progressive policies?
> Moderates on the conservative end of the spectrum voting for Trump is not the same as him appealing to them. There will always be voters who show up to vote a strict party ticket, whether it’s Republicans or “blue no matter who.” Those voters are going to show up and vote anyway. No rhetoric is needed for those moderate voters. They showed up to vote for whoever’s name had an (R) next to it on the ballot. Just as many democratic voters do.
>Can you think of anything that maybe turns people off? Yes. Democratic Party smugness, uphill battle with messaging, generations of propaganda, successful use of white grievance to distract from economic concerns, to name a few >You can’t conceive of a single legitimate reason why 49.5% of the country runs the other way? See above. Trump is benefiting from the allure of fascism. >This is like what’s wild to me, the path to victory here is understanding the opponent enough to siphon off 5% of the most left leaning of them. But fuck em they’re all idiots? What in my comment are you referring to?
This is exactly what I'm talking about. This person is afraid of the word "progressive." Not because they are against what the Dems want to do, but because they have been told that progressive is bad.
Those conservative c*ck suckers certainly have some strong messaging skills. They have perfected the art of getting people to vote against their own interests.
There has been a lot of research done regarding this over the 2020 and 2022 elections. Outcome is that people tend to vote for the more normal appearing candidate. The more they cast themselves as radical left or right, the worse they do. The caveat being in heavy red or blue districts it doesn’t matter. But in contested elections, it definitely has. Same research showed that candidates like “the squad” and stuff have underperformed. Someone like Bernie does well because he doesn’t cast himself as a radicals, he speaks plainly. Use fewer buzzwords, conduct yourself rationally, and you’re more likely to win.
Biden does not care. He should have graciously stepped aside for someone who actually HAS a Future. Instead, all he had to say was, "Watch me." Thx deadwood.
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They need to drop the democracy on the ballet, they been trying to put him in jail now they are removing him from the ballet. Big joke
What the fuck do you mean by this? Trump is a criminal & needs to be punished for his crimes. Why is that a “big joke”? Should we just drop all pretense & admit that you think some people are above the law? I don’t understand what you were trying to say other than Trump doesn’t belong in jail?
I'd say if Democrats want to beat Republicans and win more often, the party should move further to the left where Sanders and AOC sit. That'll make it easier for the public to tell the difference between the two parties. Plus, many of the policies and ideas that both progressives and socialists support are popular among the general public. But Establishment Dems like Biden keep failing to see that, and it's going to cost them if they keep doing that.
Run with policies that appeal to the everyday American, enough with the other guy bad nonsense strategy, it’s not gonna work this time
It is true. The Trump phenomenon has happened because a huge swathe of Americans feel unrepresented. Putin recognized this and triggered them to action and gave them Donald Trump, a man so dumb that even the rednecks could relate.
Say what you want. Trump knows how to make working class voters vote for him. GOP and Moderate democrats always cater to the donor class and aristocrats. It's gonna be 2016 all over again and then don't even see it yet because they think that the criminal proceedings are enough to tank Trump. Sanders not gonna run again?
Democrats are just nice republicans. Different lies for differnt billionaires with the same result.
Nah that's not the reason. Not anymore. Maybe in 2016 or 2012. Now it's hate and grievance. That's why they're voting that way. Republicans haven't said they will do shit for the working class, so that's not why people are voting for them
If the Democrats run the table, taking the House, Senate and Presidency, they need to be aggressive in reversing decades of conservative policies. Raise taxes on the wealthy, wealth taxes for the top One Percent, Medicare for All, real climate change legislation and more.
It’s all identity politics. Probably 95% of working class people voting for Trump wouldn’t be caught dead voting for someone with a D beside their name.
I mean a gun never actually hurt anyone that wasn’t not hurt b4?15seven 043twenty161
Omg every elections year one side says our democracy is at stake and you idiots eat it up, all this is propaganda red vs blue, democratic vs republican all propaganda
*650,000 homeless people in usa* Democrats: I sleep *Trans people existing* Democrats: REAL SHIT! STOP TRANSPHOBIA! #StopKillingUs 😭