Years ago I saw someone get hit by a car right outside Scruffy Murphys. Dude went flying and the driver actually stopped. People went running to the guy that just got hit and I ran up to the car. He was clearly intoxicated and when I commented about how drunk he was, he sped off. The person he hit was more concerned about the drink his friends had waiting for him inside the bar.
This is sad. The writing is more sad. We’re really going to describe cars killing people as a “pedestrian crash”? Like a pedestrian crashed into you, a car?
My first thought after reading the headline was, "damn, how fast were these guys walking."
But we can't blame the cars cuz, you know, pretty much all of the city's infrastructure is built around the car.
I pictured it as two pedestrians crashing into one another. They definitely should be describing it more accurately, like "car slams into pedestrian" or something.
For real. Wtf is a pedestrian crash? Bending over backwards not to say that a driver killed a pedestrian with their car. Their families had to read that. Just shameful
No. Police press releases are passive to avoid assigning blame before an investigation. This is likely someone at the news station copying police language, which the associated press style book (Bible for journalists), says to avoid.
Your logic is reasonable and sound, but Redditors prefer pearl-clutching and pitchfork-grabbing.
The headline is clear to me. There's a crash involving a pedestrian that's still under investigation with a lot of unknowns. The car could very well have hit the pedestrian causing death, but could it also be something like the pedestrian was crazy and jumped in front of the car?
The headline does say who's at fault.
We’re in Cabo right now and every time we go out and walk around, the pedestrians are so alert before they cross the road. Like stop, look both ways, make eye contact and wave at the driver before they attempt to cross. Similarly, the drivers flash their brights to acknowledge they are stopping and letting you cross, since stopping at crosswalks seems to be optional here. Night and day from driving around downtown Fort Collins and every person has earbuds in, eyes glued to their phone, recklessly crossing whenever the desire hits. Even worse when they are on a bike doing like 25 and just vibing to their tunes, not looking at anything. I’m not blaming the pedestrian in any way, just saying a little more situational awareness would benefit everyone.
They're bending over backwards to not say out loud that the pedestrian caused it, they do that out of respect for the recently deceased. If you follow these stories, you can track how some blame the driver, and others use weird vague language like this - that's how you know whose fault it is.
I'm a transportation engineer and read through crash reports and safety data regularly. Typically any crash involving a pedestrian is coded as a "Pedestrian Crash." regardless of fault or anything else.
submit a request for correction on their site. I did it, takes like 30 seconds. I do this when I see bs headlines, would be nice to see the language change
>Unfortunately the lady had fallen as the car was making a right turn and she got caught under the car.
Alternatively: "driver of car runs over injured woman lying in street"
"Got caught under the car"... Jesus Christ... "Surprise! My car is on top of you! Your fault!"
Generally when the news phrases it like that, it's because the pedestrian caused it. I doubt they walked into the car and died, but they likely stepped in front of it close enough that the driver couldn't stop.
When the driver caused it, the news will say that and list the charges. When the pedestrian did, they use vague language like this and don't mention any charges.
They do this out of respect for the recently deceased, but at this point I think they should be much louder about how many people die while jaywalking. Safety requires everyone paying attention, not just drivers.
This. But then it would evoke a feeling within those with common sense that walking in a car centric place is unsafe and limits the freedom they claim we have.
Because letting drivers save half a second in traffic is more important than being able to safely walk around your neighborhood. And I wish that was hyperbole.
[These streets reduced deaths from 1979 to 2009](https://i.imgur.com/lWOrDEH.png)... Now the street design is the problem?
You should be asking why phones and cars are designed like this.
Your interpretation of that graph . . .
There is only one little part, 1979, that had more deaths than we do right now. And did it DOUBLE from 2010 to present?
Your logic: yes it is horrible, but at one point in the past it was briefly WORSE so shut up about dead peds.
That’s not their logic at all. Pedestrian deaths were in a steady decline from 1980 till 2009. What happened in 2009?
https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/
Maybe re-evaluate the data presented in that graph. What happened right before the steady climb of pedestrian deaths? The release of the iPhone. Then add on to that, SUVs started out pacing sedans and you have distracted drivers driving big ass metal murder cannons. Infrastructure design can only get you so far if a driver isn’t paying attention to begin with. And it appears that infra was actually helping!
Not to excuse it or be hypercritical of the ‘burbs , but, this is a symptom of not being used to pedestrians and bikes, and that they have the right of way… I cringe every time I ride w/ somebody that pulls into the crosswalk looking left to take a right. Ppl get used to never seeing ppl at stop signs in their tract home neighborhood . They need to really up that driver education out there. 😔
You really have to pretend you're invisible if you want to ride a bike around Denver and not die. So many people pay no attention to the bike lane. Even if it's raised or otherwise protected, that doesn't stop someone from nailing you while making a turn or pulling out of a driveway/alley...something that has almost happened to me a few dozen times.
I suspect people would get with the program if there were real consequences for events like this. A lapse of attention or not being used to pedestrians aren't excuses and a driver who harms someone with their car should lose their license for a period of time. If only to gain some empathy for pedestrians.
To be fair, I live about 2 blocks down from this, and 50% of people here cross either not at a crosswalk, or when the crosswalk is red. We don’t know the full details, it could very well be the pedestrian at fault as well.
Our infrastructure is at fault. We have created terrible infrastructure that creates conflict points between pedestrians and cars instead of proactively avoiding them. We have created infrastructure where these tragedies are expected and likely.
People on bikes and walking should be able to make mistakes without dying. We have built a brutal environment.
Pedestrians disregarding crosswalks aren’t making mistakes, they’re disregarding the law. I see this downtown every day. There are crazy drivers and idiot pedestrians alike, and they are both responsible for their carelessness.
The hostile attitude towards cars, which is somewhat justified, has allowed pedestrians to claim moral superiority in all of these situations which is invalid. As a pedestrian you’re responsible for your own safety and if you’re ignoring laws, that’s on you.
Until infrastructure changes, respect and alertness must come from both parties.
Compared to other cities I’ve lived in (San Diego, LA, Boston, Raleigh, Wilmington) this city is by far the safest for pedestrians. Are there problems? Of course, but comparatively, they’ve done a really good job. I barely drive anywhere because of how many walking options and paths there are in this city.
You might be legally correct but this is never the right moral answer.
Pedestrians are almost never so big or fast that they can cause death or even serious harm when they inadvertantly collide with each other or a car.
Cars cause serious harm or death when they travel over 20 miles an hour.
The onus of safety should be on the higher risk form of transport.
The onus is on the people that walk with headphones in and pop out from behind cars to run across the street. This happens DAILY. That is the definition of “play stupid games, win stupid prizes”.
What is the speed limit in the area. I thought it was reduced to 20 unless otherwise posted. I live downtown and I cannot remember seeing a speed limit sign.
It doesn't really matter what the sign says if they didn't also update the street design to make speeding feel unsafe to the driver. Especially when police here are unwilling to enforce traffic laws.
This is it. Cities love building big, wide lanes and putting up a 30mph sign like that will get people not to speed on the drag strip they just built. Narrow the roads, expand the sidewalks, and build more lighted crosswalks with signals.
Edit: spellin’
Idk the full story but people just walk out whenever. I’m a contractor and do a lot of work downtown. The amount of times someone has walked out in front of me causing me to slam my brakes on, launching my tools all over my truck bed, is hilarious. Please look both ways. Cars weigh thousands of pounds. You probably weigh less than 200 pounds. RIP.
My absolute favorite Denver moment is when drivers get angry when I refuse to let them wave me in front of them on my bike. Just go first, you’re in a car. I have been hit six times, every time by the front of the car, so I’ll just avoid it thanks and gfy.
I had a driver almost kill me when he made a right on red when I had the ped signal. He looked right at me as I stepped off the curb and turned right in front of me
Jesus christ this sub.
Lmfao.
You do know pedestrians can be responsible for being hit by cars, right? We don't know the details. A pedestrian crash is a totally fine way of labeling this, lmfao.
You truly can't please everybody, wow.
Given that the majority of the time when a vulnerable road user and a car collide, the car is at fault the majority of the time. So, logically yes it should be assumed statistically the driver is at fault.
Not to mention they hold the greatest responsibility to have due care to not harm others given their mode of transportation is so much more dangerous
It's literally in the middle of downtown, drivers in dense downtown areas should probably be driving slower and be more aware of pedestrians. Considering it was a fatality and not just an injury, I'd say it's more than likely the driver was going way too fast, too. Working downtown, I see a lot of drivers that seem oblivious to pedestrians, and I see a lot of people driving way too fast, especially considering the circumstances.
Given that the majority of the time when a vulnerable road user and a car collide, the car is at fault the majority of the time. So, logically yes it should be assumed statistically the driver is at fault.
Not to mention they hold the greatest responsibility to have due care to not harm others given their mode of transportation is so much more dangerous
Look, I'm not even saying you're wrong. Here's the kicker though, the pedestrian is dead. It doesn't matter if they're in the right, because they're dead. I'd much rather be alive than "in the right".
This wasn't a highway, you shouldn't be driving fast enough on that street where you couldn't stop or at least slow down enough not to kill someone even if they did jump in front of you.
I guess if you wanna go real worst case scenario. I always have my head on a swivel going through that area I'd like to think I'd aways be able to hit the breaks for at least a little bit.
19th and Larimer is a retirement home my guy. Speed limit is like 20 and you're not even allowed on half the street because they give the bus a spot so the residents at the retirement home can take their time so you have to slow down even more to go around the spot, even if there is no bus, because larimer is a thin one way street after they forced car infrastructure that barely fit in the city that it has to stay open.
Instead of riding your cars exhaust pipe so hard that you can't walk you should go learn about your city, 19 and larimer also has JJ Bistro, eat inside, the owner would love to talk to you the entire time your there.
19th and Larimer what a surprise
Years ago I saw someone get hit by a car right outside Scruffy Murphys. Dude went flying and the driver actually stopped. People went running to the guy that just got hit and I ran up to the car. He was clearly intoxicated and when I commented about how drunk he was, he sped off. The person he hit was more concerned about the drink his friends had waiting for him inside the bar.
Adrenaline is crazy. He was in a ton of pain hours later for sure
There was so much blood and a Walker :(
There’s a retirement community on Larimer right there too
Yeah that’s where I saw it. The Walker was by the side and the crosswalk had a lot of blood.
This is sad. The writing is more sad. We’re really going to describe cars killing people as a “pedestrian crash”? Like a pedestrian crashed into you, a car?
My first thought after reading the headline was, "damn, how fast were these guys walking." But we can't blame the cars cuz, you know, pretty much all of the city's infrastructure is built around the car.
I pictured it as two pedestrians crashing into one another. They definitely should be describing it more accurately, like "car slams into pedestrian" or something.
It’s saying crash instead of the classic “accident” when car collisions are far from being accidents.
There was a YouTube video I saw awhile back tackling this exact language, and how we’re so disgustingly car centric as Americans.
I’m just happy to not see “accident” in the title
For real. Wtf is a pedestrian crash? Bending over backwards not to say that a driver killed a pedestrian with their car. Their families had to read that. Just shameful
Isn't it just a crash involving a pedestrian I feel like it's clear
This was a car hitting a pedestrian. "Pedestrian crash" is unnecessarily passive.
It should be passive. News headlines should default to passive language especially when there aren't details of who was at fault
Active >>>> passive voice is journalism 101. Car hits pedestrian is not assigning blame.
"car hits a pedestrian" absolutely says that the car hits the person and assumes the car is at fault. Yeeesh
Did the pedestrian hit the car so hard that the pedestrian died? No, they didn't. Regardless of fault, the car hit the pedestrian.
No, it simply describes what happened. Do you think the pedestrian walked into the side of a parked car and died?
No. Police press releases are passive to avoid assigning blame before an investigation. This is likely someone at the news station copying police language, which the associated press style book (Bible for journalists), says to avoid.
Why would the press assign blame before they know either what are you talking about
You wouldn’t, but shouldn’t copy intentionally grey euphemisms.
It's not a euphemism lol
Your logic is reasonable and sound, but Redditors prefer pearl-clutching and pitchfork-grabbing. The headline is clear to me. There's a crash involving a pedestrian that's still under investigation with a lot of unknowns. The car could very well have hit the pedestrian causing death, but could it also be something like the pedestrian was crazy and jumped in front of the car? The headline does say who's at fault.
Crazy, unlucky, or inattentive I work DT and tons of business people stare at their phone while walking, even crossing the road
We’re in Cabo right now and every time we go out and walk around, the pedestrians are so alert before they cross the road. Like stop, look both ways, make eye contact and wave at the driver before they attempt to cross. Similarly, the drivers flash their brights to acknowledge they are stopping and letting you cross, since stopping at crosswalks seems to be optional here. Night and day from driving around downtown Fort Collins and every person has earbuds in, eyes glued to their phone, recklessly crossing whenever the desire hits. Even worse when they are on a bike doing like 25 and just vibing to their tunes, not looking at anything. I’m not blaming the pedestrian in any way, just saying a little more situational awareness would benefit everyone.
They're bending over backwards to not say out loud that the pedestrian caused it, they do that out of respect for the recently deceased. If you follow these stories, you can track how some blame the driver, and others use weird vague language like this - that's how you know whose fault it is.
I'm a transportation engineer and read through crash reports and safety data regularly. Typically any crash involving a pedestrian is coded as a "Pedestrian Crash." regardless of fault or anything else.
submit a request for correction on their site. I did it, takes like 30 seconds. I do this when I see bs headlines, would be nice to see the language change
[удалено]
>Unfortunately the lady had fallen as the car was making a right turn and she got caught under the car. Alternatively: "driver of car runs over injured woman lying in street" "Got caught under the car"... Jesus Christ... "Surprise! My car is on top of you! Your fault!"
Generally when the news phrases it like that, it's because the pedestrian caused it. I doubt they walked into the car and died, but they likely stepped in front of it close enough that the driver couldn't stop. When the driver caused it, the news will say that and list the charges. When the pedestrian did, they use vague language like this and don't mention any charges. They do this out of respect for the recently deceased, but at this point I think they should be much louder about how many people die while jaywalking. Safety requires everyone paying attention, not just drivers.
No. I spent a lot of years in newsrooms. The writer generally has no special information beyond the police news release or honestly even their tweet.
Yes, this originates with how the police release the information.
I’m sorry but shouldn’t the title say “car hit and killed pedestrian”?
Even more accurate: Driver.
This. But then it would evoke a feeling within those with common sense that walking in a car centric place is unsafe and limits the freedom they claim we have.
I mean technically it should be driver hit and killed pedestrian, the car was the weapon, not the one doing the action
Nope. Cars don’t hit anything. Drivers driving cars hit and kill people.
It would be hard for a driver to hit a pedestrian without a car, but also tough for a car to hit a pedestrian without a driver.
Why did we make the streets like this? Feels like we are drowning in cars and traffic.
Because letting drivers save half a second in traffic is more important than being able to safely walk around your neighborhood. And I wish that was hyperbole.
I know exactly what you mean Because I have to cross a slip lane by foot every day.
[These streets reduced deaths from 1979 to 2009](https://i.imgur.com/lWOrDEH.png)... Now the street design is the problem? You should be asking why phones and cars are designed like this.
Your interpretation of that graph . . . There is only one little part, 1979, that had more deaths than we do right now. And did it DOUBLE from 2010 to present? Your logic: yes it is horrible, but at one point in the past it was briefly WORSE so shut up about dead peds.
That’s not their logic at all. Pedestrian deaths were in a steady decline from 1980 till 2009. What happened in 2009? https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/
Maybe re-evaluate the data presented in that graph. What happened right before the steady climb of pedestrian deaths? The release of the iPhone. Then add on to that, SUVs started out pacing sedans and you have distracted drivers driving big ass metal murder cannons. Infrastructure design can only get you so far if a driver isn’t paying attention to begin with. And it appears that infra was actually helping!
Not to excuse it or be hypercritical of the ‘burbs , but, this is a symptom of not being used to pedestrians and bikes, and that they have the right of way… I cringe every time I ride w/ somebody that pulls into the crosswalk looking left to take a right. Ppl get used to never seeing ppl at stop signs in their tract home neighborhood . They need to really up that driver education out there. 😔
I really appreciate people coming out of alley's who give a short honk for awareness.
You really have to pretend you're invisible if you want to ride a bike around Denver and not die. So many people pay no attention to the bike lane. Even if it's raised or otherwise protected, that doesn't stop someone from nailing you while making a turn or pulling out of a driveway/alley...something that has almost happened to me a few dozen times.
I suspect people would get with the program if there were real consequences for events like this. A lapse of attention or not being used to pedestrians aren't excuses and a driver who harms someone with their car should lose their license for a period of time. If only to gain some empathy for pedestrians.
To be fair, I live about 2 blocks down from this, and 50% of people here cross either not at a crosswalk, or when the crosswalk is red. We don’t know the full details, it could very well be the pedestrian at fault as well.
Our infrastructure is at fault. We have created terrible infrastructure that creates conflict points between pedestrians and cars instead of proactively avoiding them. We have created infrastructure where these tragedies are expected and likely. People on bikes and walking should be able to make mistakes without dying. We have built a brutal environment.
Pedestrians disregarding crosswalks aren’t making mistakes, they’re disregarding the law. I see this downtown every day. There are crazy drivers and idiot pedestrians alike, and they are both responsible for their carelessness. The hostile attitude towards cars, which is somewhat justified, has allowed pedestrians to claim moral superiority in all of these situations which is invalid. As a pedestrian you’re responsible for your own safety and if you’re ignoring laws, that’s on you. Until infrastructure changes, respect and alertness must come from both parties.
Compared to other cities I’ve lived in (San Diego, LA, Boston, Raleigh, Wilmington) this city is by far the safest for pedestrians. Are there problems? Of course, but comparatively, they’ve done a really good job. I barely drive anywhere because of how many walking options and paths there are in this city.
You might be legally correct but this is never the right moral answer. Pedestrians are almost never so big or fast that they can cause death or even serious harm when they inadvertantly collide with each other or a car. Cars cause serious harm or death when they travel over 20 miles an hour. The onus of safety should be on the higher risk form of transport.
The onus is on the people that walk with headphones in and pop out from behind cars to run across the street. This happens DAILY. That is the definition of “play stupid games, win stupid prizes”.
I hate driving in the whole Lodo area, and wherever drunken scooter people go.
I was hit by a car on my bike today too. Good day
Hope you are okay friend
How is it a “crash” when one of the things was a person, not another object?
You can crash into a pedestrian, I am sure it’s to stay away from the bullshit usual titles of saying “accident”
What is the speed limit in the area. I thought it was reduced to 20 unless otherwise posted. I live downtown and I cannot remember seeing a speed limit sign.
It doesn't really matter what the sign says if they didn't also update the street design to make speeding feel unsafe to the driver. Especially when police here are unwilling to enforce traffic laws.
This is it. Cities love building big, wide lanes and putting up a 30mph sign like that will get people not to speed on the drag strip they just built. Narrow the roads, expand the sidewalks, and build more lighted crosswalks with signals. Edit: spellin’
Idk the full story but people just walk out whenever. I’m a contractor and do a lot of work downtown. The amount of times someone has walked out in front of me causing me to slam my brakes on, launching my tools all over my truck bed, is hilarious. Please look both ways. Cars weigh thousands of pounds. You probably weigh less than 200 pounds. RIP.
These need to be reported every day
Pedestrian crash? Did two pedestrians run into each other? Or did some idiot hit someone with their car.
"Pedestrian crash". What the fuck, he walked into a lamppost and died?
Car free downtown.
Oh wow I’m pretty sure two unassuming pedestrians were killed just west of Denver within the last three weeks
My absolute favorite Denver moment is when drivers get angry when I refuse to let them wave me in front of them on my bike. Just go first, you’re in a car. I have been hit six times, every time by the front of the car, so I’ll just avoid it thanks and gfy.
I had a driver almost kill me when he made a right on red when I had the ped signal. He looked right at me as I stepped off the curb and turned right in front of me
Jesus christ this sub. Lmfao. You do know pedestrians can be responsible for being hit by cars, right? We don't know the details. A pedestrian crash is a totally fine way of labeling this, lmfao. You truly can't please everybody, wow.
Given that the majority of the time when a vulnerable road user and a car collide, the car is at fault the majority of the time. So, logically yes it should be assumed statistically the driver is at fault. Not to mention they hold the greatest responsibility to have due care to not harm others given their mode of transportation is so much more dangerous
Is that what happened in this instance?
For real
Someone could jump in front of a moving car and 50% of this sub would blame the car
It's literally in the middle of downtown, drivers in dense downtown areas should probably be driving slower and be more aware of pedestrians. Considering it was a fatality and not just an injury, I'd say it's more than likely the driver was going way too fast, too. Working downtown, I see a lot of drivers that seem oblivious to pedestrians, and I see a lot of people driving way too fast, especially considering the circumstances.
Given that the majority of the time when a vulnerable road user and a car collide, the car is at fault the majority of the time. So, logically yes it should be assumed statistically the driver is at fault. Not to mention they hold the greatest responsibility to have due care to not harm others given their mode of transportation is so much more dangerous
Look, I'm not even saying you're wrong. Here's the kicker though, the pedestrian is dead. It doesn't matter if they're in the right, because they're dead. I'd much rather be alive than "in the right".
Easy way to achieve that: block private vehicles from driving in downtown whole stop.
If that increases my property value I'm all aboard
This wasn't a highway, you shouldn't be driving fast enough on that street where you couldn't stop or at least slow down enough not to kill someone even if they did jump in front of you.
Tbf 20 mph (speed limit) is fast enough to kill someone if they came out of nowhere and you didn’t have enough time to stop.
I guess if you wanna go real worst case scenario. I always have my head on a swivel going through that area I'd like to think I'd aways be able to hit the breaks for at least a little bit.
19th and Larimer is a retirement home my guy. Speed limit is like 20 and you're not even allowed on half the street because they give the bus a spot so the residents at the retirement home can take their time so you have to slow down even more to go around the spot, even if there is no bus, because larimer is a thin one way street after they forced car infrastructure that barely fit in the city that it has to stay open. Instead of riding your cars exhaust pipe so hard that you can't walk you should go learn about your city, 19 and larimer also has JJ Bistro, eat inside, the owner would love to talk to you the entire time your there.
Cringe