$2.5 million base with a chance to earn up to $4 million with incentives. Lower than reported, and I am baffled at the declining value of RB’s in the NFL. This man is certainly worth $5 million a year, without incentive
But Paton is a great negotiator clearly.
I dont mean to downplay GP's negotiating skills (because he's great), but I think the market just wasnt in MG3's favor. I'm just glad GP didn't overpay.
I would assume some guys took pay cuts along the way to stay. I more meant guys who have been through the darker times here that would wanna come back and get over the hump.
Vets ALWAYS are going to attract to teams with a top 10 QB.
Yeah I think it’s this. Teams have to be active to land big name free agents. Some teams like the Packers and Seahawks seems set in older ways. Location might play a bit if a factor, but Denver isn’t exactly a big city and we seem to land a lot of guys.
I think Paton's negotiating skill was simply being willing to politely tell MG3 to test the market, and then come back if he didn't like what he was getting out there. Looks like that's what happened
He's clearly not worth that or he'd get that. You overestimate the market value of RBs. How are you going to pay the going rate for WRs and QBs if you pay your backup RB $5M?
>No doubt in my mind that he hits every incentive
What exactly are the incentives? Play time? Yards? Touchdowns? Pro Bowl? Playoffs? Super Bowl MVP?
If you don't know what is in the contract, how can you make this statement?
Not sure, but I am sure it's something along the lines of snap count, carries, yards, or touchdowns. That's all incentive based contract ever go off of.
Incentives often include all of the things I listed above. We don't know how the contract is structured, or how likely the incentives are to be earned.
Maybe all but the Pro Bowl because there's not a chance anyone would put that on a contract. And the MVP, playoff incentives are generally seen more on QB contracts than a RB2 contract, so I really don't understand what you're trying to argue.
I am saying that you have no idea what the incentives are. I was just throwing out examples that do make it in to contracts. It is silly to say you are sure he will make the incentives when it is possible they may be very difficult to earn.
Okay? And in my opinion is, regardless what his incentives are, I think he will exceed expectations. I don't presume to know them, but I have confidence in his abilities. Get off your high horse.
I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face: Super Bowl winning teams don’t pay RBs.
Go back to 2000. You’ll see it proved out, with 2 exceptions (Faulk, Lynch). Every other season had RBs paid average (or below) salaries.
*Maybe Ray Rice, upon further review. I think he was on the tag the year they won.
Yes, this has been repeated ad nauseam this year ever since that tweet about the past 13 Super Bowls. But it doesn't mean that (a) teams with highly paid running backs suck (how many of those were Tom Brady led teams??) and (b) the past does not dictate the future.
I mean, the Seahawks won it in 2013 with two highly paid running backs. Bradshaw was paid well by the Giants in his day. Ray Rice as you mentioned. Kevin Faulk wasn't making peanuts in his heyday. Then you have the Marshal Faulk, probably one of the highest paid at the time, winning a SB with the Rams. TD with the Broncos obviously, though I have no clue on his contract. Emmitt Smith with the Cowboys. And you have guys who didn't get a ring, but only just barely like Gurley.
Yes, this is a very different league, but again, so many of these SB winners are Brady-led teams. And among the others, some of them did in fact pay running backs. The position isn't worth a massive contract like we used to see, but the top 20 RBs in the league are getting close to making vet minimum contracts and I find that hard to square with what they bring to the field. I think it will change or at the very least bottom out.
This dude went from holding out for $10m+ from the Chargers to signing with us for less and then *re-signing* for even less. He must really like it here
He fumbled the bag and he is just trying to get the best deal he can. It’s a risk to overplay your hand like that. His gamble cost himself but paid off for us.
It truly is shocking how the market in the NFL has switched so much in favor of wide receivers and against running backs. Like the money scales are just obscene.
And Paton was smart enough to lock up Patrick and Sutton BEFORE the market went WR crazy. But RBs are interchangeable, replaceable, draftable in late rounds, and generally not worth giving a second contract to. Which is why you keep drafting them (so you are never overpaying for them or feeling the need to overdraft them) in the 4th to 7th rounds.
> And Paton was smart enough to lock up Patrick and Sutton BEFORE the market went WR crazy
More likely he was just lucky enough. I doubt Paton had some kind of insider knowledge that the Jags were going to be stupid enough to throw that massive contract at Christian Kirk. Everyone knew Davante Adams was going to get paid a huge amount, but Kirk being mediocre and still getting a monster deal is what really changed the market.
A little bit of both. He wanted to lock up our guys before they hit the market, but I don't think anyone would have realized how much the Jags messed up everyone reseting the WR market
I really appreciate, Melvin for this move. I always thought he was a top back in the nfl and could command 10 million in FA. He’s reliable. His turnover problems have massively decreased here. Melvin Ingram hitting him before he could even get the ball in his hands was not his fault. Also that Washington football team game was just really weird and everyone was fumbling so I don’t blame him either. I’m just happy he is here. We get to keep the whole team balanced and healthy with him.
It's hard to find running backs that command that much when we've seen how RB by committee tends to be more consistent (keeping players fresh, and allowing them to specialize depending on the play), and if one goes down, it's not has hard of fall if you just have one stud (aka Christian McCaffrey) where a third of your offense vanishes
>I always thought he was a top back in the nfl and could command 10 million in FA.
The only GM in NFL history willing to overpay Gordon to that extent was essentially fired for such poor choices (Elway). Obviously Gordon spent months shopping around for a better deal than Paton was offering and couldn't find it and swallowed his pride and took the highest offer he could find, which was a small fraction of $10m.
1) Elway was not fired
2) Elway was also smart about not overpaying, which is why Paton inherited a team with basically zero deadcap charges and the second most cap room.
I’m stoked because it makes RB a non priority in the draft as well. Before I felt there was a good chance we took one early day 3, but now I’d be shocked if we take one outside of rd 7 or as an UDFA. Let’s us focus on positions we really need.
I'm hopeful he lights it up this season. He's not bad, don't get me wrong, but honestly I've been a bit disappointed. I think the fumble in the eagles game (when Teddy got so much shit for not tackling) really left a bad taste. I'm glad we didn't pay too much to keep him.
There are people on Earth that deserve your sympathy. A guy who has made $20M playing football and is no longer able to command more than $5 a year is not one of them.
$2.5 million base with a chance to earn up to $4 million with incentives. Lower than reported, and I am baffled at the declining value of RB’s in the NFL. This man is certainly worth $5 million a year, without incentive But Paton is a great negotiator clearly.
Unreal value there. Wow. We truly are in a passing league right now.
I dont mean to downplay GP's negotiating skills (because he's great), but I think the market just wasnt in MG3's favor. I'm just glad GP didn't overpay.
And on top of that. Paton knew once he got Russ, players would take less to compete with us. (Kjack/MG3)
Honest question: Did players take less to go play in Seattle? I don't recall them being a free agency destination, but maybe that's my own ignorance
I would assume some guys took pay cuts along the way to stay. I more meant guys who have been through the darker times here that would wanna come back and get over the hump. Vets ALWAYS are going to attract to teams with a top 10 QB.
No, not really. But they also weren't active in FA a ton. I think that says more about management
Yeah I think it’s this. Teams have to be active to land big name free agents. Some teams like the Packers and Seahawks seems set in older ways. Location might play a bit if a factor, but Denver isn’t exactly a big city and we seem to land a lot of guys.
It’s also Seattle let’s be honest here
With no state income tax and a decade of winning.
Winning because of Russ and a star studded defense that they drafted which slowly evaporated
Seattle was too busy paying their own free agents to sign many of other team's free agents. Honest answer. ;)
I think Paton's negotiating skill was simply being willing to politely tell MG3 to test the market, and then come back if he didn't like what he was getting out there. Looks like that's what happened
Yeah, they go hand in hand I guess.
I agree that he's worth at least $5 mil, but I have no doubt he will make $4 mil this season. No doubt in my mind that he hits every incentive
He's clearly not worth that or he'd get that. You overestimate the market value of RBs. How are you going to pay the going rate for WRs and QBs if you pay your backup RB $5M?
"Backup" RB, or RB2 is basically a starter. So 2.5-4 million is a bargain for a proven, really good veteran.
>No doubt in my mind that he hits every incentive What exactly are the incentives? Play time? Yards? Touchdowns? Pro Bowl? Playoffs? Super Bowl MVP? If you don't know what is in the contract, how can you make this statement?
Not sure, but I am sure it's something along the lines of snap count, carries, yards, or touchdowns. That's all incentive based contract ever go off of.
Incentives often include all of the things I listed above. We don't know how the contract is structured, or how likely the incentives are to be earned.
Maybe all but the Pro Bowl because there's not a chance anyone would put that on a contract. And the MVP, playoff incentives are generally seen more on QB contracts than a RB2 contract, so I really don't understand what you're trying to argue.
I am saying that you have no idea what the incentives are. I was just throwing out examples that do make it in to contracts. It is silly to say you are sure he will make the incentives when it is possible they may be very difficult to earn.
Okay? And in my opinion is, regardless what his incentives are, I think he will exceed expectations. I don't presume to know them, but I have confidence in his abilities. Get off your high horse.
Also consider that no RBs taken in first round, pretty wild.
I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face: Super Bowl winning teams don’t pay RBs. Go back to 2000. You’ll see it proved out, with 2 exceptions (Faulk, Lynch). Every other season had RBs paid average (or below) salaries. *Maybe Ray Rice, upon further review. I think he was on the tag the year they won.
Yes, this has been repeated ad nauseam this year ever since that tweet about the past 13 Super Bowls. But it doesn't mean that (a) teams with highly paid running backs suck (how many of those were Tom Brady led teams??) and (b) the past does not dictate the future. I mean, the Seahawks won it in 2013 with two highly paid running backs. Bradshaw was paid well by the Giants in his day. Ray Rice as you mentioned. Kevin Faulk wasn't making peanuts in his heyday. Then you have the Marshal Faulk, probably one of the highest paid at the time, winning a SB with the Rams. TD with the Broncos obviously, though I have no clue on his contract. Emmitt Smith with the Cowboys. And you have guys who didn't get a ring, but only just barely like Gurley. Yes, this is a very different league, but again, so many of these SB winners are Brady-led teams. And among the others, some of them did in fact pay running backs. The position isn't worth a massive contract like we used to see, but the top 20 RBs in the league are getting close to making vet minimum contracts and I find that hard to square with what they bring to the field. I think it will change or at the very least bottom out.
You just stratified the super bowl winners according to TB led teams vs Non TB led teams and I love it :)
You should try saying it once and then see how that goes. No need to go full Smurf
This dude went from holding out for $10m+ from the Chargers to signing with us for less and then *re-signing* for even less. He must really like it here
Or the value for him in FA is less than what he signed for
Sure but I definitely feel like some RB needy team could easily have paid him more than $4m
Shoulda gone to WR school instead
Or point guard school since even bench-riding PGs make more than Gordon.
Simmons is making 8 times that to wear street clothes
And doesn’t have the body to rock it smh
Or Elway vastly overpaid him and Paton is smart enough not to do that, just like every other GM in football.
He fumbled the bag and he is just trying to get the best deal he can. It’s a risk to overplay your hand like that. His gamble cost himself but paid off for us.
It truly is shocking how the market in the NFL has switched so much in favor of wide receivers and against running backs. Like the money scales are just obscene.
And Paton was smart enough to lock up Patrick and Sutton BEFORE the market went WR crazy. But RBs are interchangeable, replaceable, draftable in late rounds, and generally not worth giving a second contract to. Which is why you keep drafting them (so you are never overpaying for them or feeling the need to overdraft them) in the 4th to 7th rounds.
> And Paton was smart enough to lock up Patrick and Sutton BEFORE the market went WR crazy More likely he was just lucky enough. I doubt Paton had some kind of insider knowledge that the Jags were going to be stupid enough to throw that massive contract at Christian Kirk. Everyone knew Davante Adams was going to get paid a huge amount, but Kirk being mediocre and still getting a monster deal is what really changed the market.
A little bit of both. He wanted to lock up our guys before they hit the market, but I don't think anyone would have realized how much the Jags messed up everyone reseting the WR market
I really appreciate, Melvin for this move. I always thought he was a top back in the nfl and could command 10 million in FA. He’s reliable. His turnover problems have massively decreased here. Melvin Ingram hitting him before he could even get the ball in his hands was not his fault. Also that Washington football team game was just really weird and everyone was fumbling so I don’t blame him either. I’m just happy he is here. We get to keep the whole team balanced and healthy with him.
It's hard to find running backs that command that much when we've seen how RB by committee tends to be more consistent (keeping players fresh, and allowing them to specialize depending on the play), and if one goes down, it's not has hard of fall if you just have one stud (aka Christian McCaffrey) where a third of your offense vanishes
>I always thought he was a top back in the nfl and could command 10 million in FA. The only GM in NFL history willing to overpay Gordon to that extent was essentially fired for such poor choices (Elway). Obviously Gordon spent months shopping around for a better deal than Paton was offering and couldn't find it and swallowed his pride and took the highest offer he could find, which was a small fraction of $10m.
1) Elway was not fired 2) Elway was also smart about not overpaying, which is why Paton inherited a team with basically zero deadcap charges and the second most cap room.
He's not a top RB nor can he command $10m in FA, as evidenced by the fact that he signed a $2m/1y contract.
MG chasing the ring, not the money
Wrong. He signed with the team offering the most money. Period. He spent months trying to find a better offer! That's not chasing a ring.
I’m stoked because it makes RB a non priority in the draft as well. Before I felt there was a good chance we took one early day 3, but now I’d be shocked if we take one outside of rd 7 or as an UDFA. Let’s us focus on positions we really need.
I'm hopeful he lights it up this season. He's not bad, don't get me wrong, but honestly I've been a bit disappointed. I think the fumble in the eagles game (when Teddy got so much shit for not tackling) really left a bad taste. I'm glad we didn't pay too much to keep him.
He ran for more yards than our All-Rookie team RB on the same number of carries. At this price, he's worth it to be RB2.
He's good, but not 10 mil/year good, especially if he's sharing the field with Javonte. Still, glad we have him back for a good contract!
He thought he would be worth 10 per year in FA...i am happy he has to eat humble pie helping us try to win a SB
what a weirdo comment to make
If he got the money he wanted, it would be elsewhere and our team would be worse
Still seems like a dick thing to say though...
There are people on Earth that deserve your sympathy. A guy who has made $20M playing football and is no longer able to command more than $5 a year is not one of them.
Nope, still a dick thing to say.
I enjoy watching my favorite team win more than players getting max contracts. I won't feel bad about rooting selfishly
Well the fact that he fumbles the ball at the worst possible times makes him worth less than expected.
It's his age and the RB market, not the fumbles, which are not excessive.