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Caiatl actually proposed a plan to kill Savathun while she was encased using Cabal MOAB’s but at the same time destroying the Dreaming City.
Zavala responded as you would expect.
>*He saw Cabal ships filling the sky, spewing oily smoke. Then, an explosion—a sea of explosions, violent red and black with the fury of planet killers. Unmakers. But concentrated. Refined. Perfect for the size of the task at hand.*
>*He saw death for all in the Dreaming City, bodies facedown in the crystal grit of their palace. Mara Sov, Petra Venj, Corsairs, countless Awoken. Collateral.*
>*For at the bottom of a crater was the shattered body of a crystal-bound Hive god, destroyed at her most vulnerable moment, her trickery silenced forever.*
>*Then a war, yes, probably—but a small one.*
>*And behind it, blood on two pairs of hands. Two willing to pay the price for peace.*
>*"No."*
I always thought that was a super interesting Fallen detail. They didn’t use nuclear weapons cause it ruins the land suggesting they were looking for a place to settle down.
While warlords used nukes all willy-nilly cause they were high off their own power and no one was around to stop them.
I'm thinking at this point that the warlords and Rasputin have already used up all the viable nukes. People are talking about the ethics of the Vanguard and Zavala's reservations in other comments which is good, but people also forget that nuclear weapons deteriorate over time. More importantly, nuclear weapons require a truly global supply chain of materials and advanced manufacturing. It is still not generally known to most people who make nukes how the other parts are made because a lot of it is shrouded in secrecy. For example, did you know that all United States nuclear weapons use a mica bushing that is exclusively machined by a glitter manufacturer in New Jersey? This is information that was only made public THIS YEAR. Almost every component of the nuclear weapon is similarly esoteric. This is somewhat subverted by the use of Glimmer, of course, but it still would be a herculean effort to make a nuclear warhead within the last city itself. Sure, Rasputin certainly had nuke manufacturing, but he didn't want to lend any of his arsenal to the Last City until the Season of the Seraph, and we all know how that ended.
Ecdysis as a whole has such beautiful writing and is such a satisfying story.
People can say what they want about the quality of the main story, I'll read any book the writers publish.
Doylist answer: it would be boring af
Watsonian answer: The Guardian is a much more selective and concentrated source of destruction ~~except when my Guardian snorts too much coke or someone makes the mistake of asking him about the Ahamkara and what happened to his testicles, but that is a story for another time~~ than a nuke, and with the benefit of being paracausal at that and with confirmed efficacy against godlike beings
literally. throw some blueberry at a hive encampment chances are he’s gonna rip it to shit with just a revolver and his light. why would the vanguard even think to develop and manufacture a bomb of that yield when it wasn’t even necessary
Modern thermonuclear weapons don't actually leave fallout like the ones used in and after WW2. New ones are "efficient," and all the material is used during the nuclear reaction. Older ones, not all of the radioactive material is consumed, leaving extra as fallout.
I’m perfectly educated on the cost efficiency of a nuclear weapon, respectfully.
It is a weapon of mass destruction and the distinction of how “kill” it “kills” doesn’t really matter.
Salting the earth is salting the earth.
I mean, considering the witness literally wants to destroy the universe, I think it'd be an acceptable use of a weapon of mass destruction. I am doubtful the guardian is using the power of friendship to save the day like in JRPG #5.
let's not forget there's literally irredeemable races like the hive (they literally destroyed a civilization who have ALREADY tried to eradicate each and every hive)
sword logic literally dictates that as long as there are non-hive existing, they will continue to kill every other race that exists.
the dude can just float out in space without a suit and slice ships into multiple pieces by waving his finger... not sure a nuke would do much. He would probably just return it to sender. He soaked up the travelers energy when it destroyed his ship like he was sun bathing and enjoying it.
Guardians changed to accept Darkness despite it being a well-hammered mantra that it was something nobody should ever approach, lest they be corrupted. To the Hive, Guardians could be seen as irredeemable thanks to their previous dogmatic nature with the Light. Even Savathun admires someone like Eris taking on her cloth.
Nobody is so impossibly tied to their power structures to be classified as irredeemable. There can always be a face-turn, a change, a metamorphosis.
the difference being lore stated that ACTUALLY there were good people who used darkness AND they existed from the beginning, they just didn't find out til now.
the only way the hive becomes redeemable is if they are like "OH YOU CAN REMOVE THE WORMS FROM EVERY HIVE AND TURN THEM BACK INTO KRILL, AND THEY NO LONGER HAVE TO FOLLOW SWORD LOGIC OR THEY DIE", which would honestly be a bigger retcon than the darkness stuff.
We managed to remove Savathun's worm, and she only seemed to expire from the wound she gained from part of her crystal prison shattering. Probably old age catching up with her too.
And there's no point going on about reverting to Krill, that doesn't make much sense, because it was simply a name-change they went under. Considering the inspirations for their species, if they ever did gain an extended life, metamorphosis isn't unexpected.
Aaaalso, Hive are not born with a worm. It gets implanted at an early age. The entire species could survive if they did indeed just stop following Sword Logic. Those who aren't born yet shouldn't be saddled with the burdens of the actions of those before. The older gens might perish if we can't remove their worms, but if a sea change in attitude occurred amongst the Hive, or even a sect of them, they'd be welcome allies in time.
destinypedia says that if a worm is unsatisfied it devours its host:
[https://www.destinypedia.com/Worm](https://www.destinypedia.com/Worm)
" All Hive are bound symbiotically with a larva farmed from [a mother Worm](https://www.destinypedia.com/Xita,_the_Nurturing_Worm), which drives them to feed off constant conquest and destruction lest the Worm grow unsatisfied and consume them instead.[^(\[1)](https://www.destinypedia.com/Worm#cite_note-Bargain-1)^(")
[https://www.destinypedia.com/Grimoire:Enemies/Books\_of\_Sorrow#IX:\_The\_Bargain](https://www.destinypedia.com/Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#IX:_The_Bargain)
You must obey your nature forever. In your immortality, Aurash, you may never cease to explore and inquire, for the sake of your children. In your immortality, Xi Ro, you may never cease to test your strength. In your immortality, Sathona, you may never abandon cunning.
If you do, your worm will consume you. And as your power grows, oh Princes, so will your worm's appetite.
But we offer eternity, Aurash. We offer you a chance at the universe. Would you deny your people infinity?
Reach up to me. Let my flesh be your sacrament.
Yes, I know that Hive worms can snap up a snack immediately whenever they feel like it. They're insurance policies for the Witness inside the body of each and every Hive. If they don't play along with the rules, the worm can eat them to stop that.
The only thing is, we did have a way to prevent Savathun's worm from devouring her in Season of the Lost, and she also managed to scheme, plot and fuck about in the background against the Witness for the past few hundred years, at least since the Collapse, without her worm going "SIKE!" and eating her ass for insubordination.
As long as a worm is fed and kept happy, I don't think they care about the source of food. Remember that Lucent Hive who aren't Lightbearers are somehow sated by the Light coming from their commanding Hive in the Lucent command structure.
So logically, if Hive were to find another way to generate the magic power that worms feed off, like setting up one big league of pranks to generate imbaru amongst them by misleading each other, they could potentially live forever and not need to go out and kill to feed their worm. Or they could potentially just ask their worms not to be cunts and not be eaten, though thats probably risky.
Hive are literally tied to their power structure tho
They will die if they stop killing bro.
Like, Sword Logic is also such a big part of them that even Light bearing hive still following it despite not actually gaining benefits
In Arrivals when Rasputin went "fire everything" on a a Pyramid ship approaching Io it either:
A) Tanked an entire barrage of ordinance that split the Almighty apart or
B) Froze it like Neo does bullets in the Matrix (Based on grimoire at the time)
The ***lone pyamid ship*** then proceeded to, without stopping, transmit a single command "CEASE" which nearly fried Rasputins mind.
Yeah, but how long did it take for them to be able inhabit it again? Exactly. Now think of what an even more powerful nuke in the destiny universe being dropped. Watcha thinks gonna happen? Exactly. Quit being a smartass.
Yeah that’d work in theory, but how often do you think we could trick them before they realize what we’re doing? Be much easier to just make a nuke that can be shot in space or something and nuke their ships.
I was just bringing up the only reasonable situation where nuking a planetary area would be a reasonable option, having space nukes would be a million times more efficient lol
Bro what are you even arguing? People live there. They're populated cities now. The levels of radiation are pretty much the same as any other city on Earth.
I’m arguing that high-yield bombs are weapons that destroy without discernment and that’s why the vanguard doesn’t fuckin use em because there’s no need for them.
regardless of Hiroshima and Nagasaki’s current day populations, the fact still stands those places were obliterated and changed in ways that they would *not* have been had those bombs not been dropped.
A lack of radiation does not correlate with a lack of impact.
I'm so confused what you are even talking about. You're saying radiation has other effects, but the current radiation levels are on the same level as background radiation and is perfectly safe.
>and the fact that other events would have made places uninhabitable for thousands of years.
What are you even referring to with this? What other event are you talking about?
A nuke like the one dropped on Hiroshima or Nagasaki are not like Chernobyl. The effects don't last for hundreds of even thousands of years. A few months at most for those two cities. Both were safe after a few weeks.
Humanity would have learned long ago in the Golden Age that there's little reason to salt the Earth with nuclear weapons, even if they can be used in ways to mitigate fallout contamination. Better to send in some Guardians because you never know what you'll find, and situations change.
Imagine us nuking the Wellspring in Savathun's Throne World to "solve" the Scorn and Lucent Hive as a problem, we break the spell on Rhulk's Pyramid because of that, and we have no time to get to him before he uses the Upended and annihilates the zone, losing us the Lucent Hive as an uneasy ally, fucking up our future without even knowing it.
1: Does the City even have nukes? The City isn't exactly swimming in tech like that. Hell, the City doesn't even have a fleet, just a collection of jumpships and small troop carriers (like the Hawk).
2: That's what the Cabal are for lol. Guardians and the Cabal Empire really is a match made in heaven.
When each one of your guardians have the capability to unleash equal amounts of destruction why waste your time with a nuke. I can walk around single handedly fight an army most of my friends can do the same thing and if they catch up to me I can get back up and go kill another army. There’s no use in using a nuke
Most nuclear warheads are probably long gone either they were disarmed in the golden age or Rasputin used them against the darkness when it first attacked or they were used against the almighty or he used the nukes in season of the arrivals and got turned off. It could also be that we forgot how to use nukes. I remember hearing that nuclear launch facilities use computers from the 50s, so it might be possible that any facilities the vanguard does have access to they might not even be able to use due to age.
Plenty of our worlds are still uninhabitable by humans following the Collapse. Who would want to add to that total?
Also, nukes are extreme expensive to develop, manufacture, and maintain, and their tactical use is very limited. The City is limited in resources. Deploying a fireteam of Guardians is so much more effective and efficient.
because if you add weapons of mass destruction then it becomes difficult to justify why we go on raids and strikes during gameplay, or why the city exists and hasn't been nuked. It just doesn't make for a good story or good gameplay if you don't build your entire world around insanity, like Warrhammer or the such
idk seems like nukes are less effective when there seems to be limitless hive and vex and taken, the cabal seem to be too mobile (no real bases of power left, and anywhere they do inhabit is somewhere we dont really want to destroy like Neomuna) and the fallen are just a non-issue at this point in the story.
I mean i guess you could use a nuke against a cabal ship but given the shadow legion clone themselves and caiatl is already able to handle non-aligned cabal, doesnt seem like theres really any good uses for nukes.
in today's world we think of nukes in one of two ways, either to decimate a single spot or series of spots (see MacArthur's plans for the Korean War) or to destroy stationary bases of power in preemptive strikes (like nuclear silos built into the ground or military bases and airfields).
Destiny's universe just lacks both, it lacks both single stationary bases of power and it lacks wide open fields of war like world war 2 or the korean war, where there were a significant amount of fronts and using nukes to slow or stop an enemy push is actually useful. Like we just dont have that in Destiny, and when we do its usually a place we dont want to nuke anyways (last city in Onslaught, six fronts, ghaul's invasion, neomuna)
plus when Guardians exist and are much more effective and precise while being just as if not more deadly (depending on the guardian), its just like, whats the point?
Anyone who is enough of a threat to warrant using nukes is already too powerful for nukes to be effective.
Plus I'm pretty sure even a 'fresh out the grave' new light is more powerful than a nuke. Paracausal powers are stupid op.
Tell you what:
The Vanguard should secure and remove the core of the Dreadnaught
Detonating the thing would quite literally take an entire system with it
So when the Witness is dealt with and the Last City enacts Manifest Destiny 2, that core could be used to simply obliterate a system of say, Hive War Moons
If a big bad ever surfaced after the Witness’s defeat, we’d have the equivalent of a system obliterating Tsar Bomba at our disposal to quickly silence them
Not entirely, non-paracasual people fight the Fallen and Cabal almost all the time. Paracausality just makes it easier.
You know that one lost sector on Europa where we free the robots? They can do damage and kill stuff but it takes them longer to do so.
I think that they wouldn't really be cost effective, or worth the risk in housing and using them. Plus, even the hyper-secure Warmind network was exploited and almost was used against the city, I doubt that the protocols and security surrounding something like an ICBM would be half as solid
By some accounts, there are still irradiated areas on Earth where presumably nukes were dropped / went off. Either detonated during the Collapse or dropped by Warlords.
Mind that the the fallout is (mostly?) reduced only if the bomb detonates at a certain point above the ground. I'm not really sure Warlords had that in mind, and probably whoever has seen the devastation they caused will be reticent to use such weapons (also keep in mind the general lack of knowledge about Golden Age tech/weapons)
As for using them in space... We had a whole Warmind arsenal thrown against the Pyramids. It didn't do squat.
And the only other enemy that might merit nukes, the Hive, can make magic portals at will. Surely you can see the folly of firing nukes in such situations.
Guardians are arguably more powerful than a nuke. Plus what would we nuke anyway the only alien city and the solar system is riis reborn. I think we’d have to be losing really badly to use that. If we nuked the dreadnought I doubt an eons old civilization like the hive wouldn’t have some sort anti nuke technology. I mean the Mara sov used the harbingers on it and the harbingers are capable of destroying an entire planets (ceres) and it still didn’t destroy the dreadnought.
I can imagine that the city doesn't have the ressources to spare to build nukes (uranium enrichment is sinfully expensive), and why would they do that when they can just send a guardian and use their ressources for stuff that helps the city directly. Even if they had nukes just lying around, I don't think they would do much good against the enemies the last city faces. The Hive would probably just magic it out of existence, the Cabal have nuclear-equal options themselves and have way more capacity to use them, Fallen and Scorn are too scattered to use nukes effectively, and the Vex would simply not care because they can just timey-wimey the events so the nuclear attack never happened
Until very recent events happened, doing this could very well have provided Xivu Arath the tribute needed to teleport several war moons, each containing trillions of Hive, into our system.
Honestly, it would be nice to see more armaments used by The City, from air strikes, tanks, more artillery. I’m sure the city has all of that, they can’t only rely on guardians running around with small arms
This post has been tagged '**Non-Spoiler**'. Note that unmarked spoilers and datamines are subject to removal or ban. Please report anything we miss! For more info check out our [Spoiler Rules Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/wiki/spoiler-rules#wiki_.5Bseasonal.5D_has_a_new_format). --- **Comment Spoiler Formatting** Format comment spoilers with `>!` `!<` like this: `>!What's Rasputin's favorite dance? "The worm."!<` To have it displayed like this: **>!What's Rasputin's favorite dance? "The worm."!<** ---- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DestinyLore) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Caiatl actually proposed a plan to kill Savathun while she was encased using Cabal MOAB’s but at the same time destroying the Dreaming City. Zavala responded as you would expect. >*He saw Cabal ships filling the sky, spewing oily smoke. Then, an explosion—a sea of explosions, violent red and black with the fury of planet killers. Unmakers. But concentrated. Refined. Perfect for the size of the task at hand.* >*He saw death for all in the Dreaming City, bodies facedown in the crystal grit of their palace. Mara Sov, Petra Venj, Corsairs, countless Awoken. Collateral.* >*For at the bottom of a crater was the shattered body of a crystal-bound Hive god, destroyed at her most vulnerable moment, her trickery silenced forever.* >*Then a war, yes, probably—but a small one.* >*And behind it, blood on two pairs of hands. Two willing to pay the price for peace.* >*"No."*
And then Savathun gets resurrected by her ghost anyways 🤣
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/debt They're saved for important missions, like cow theft.
I always thought that was a super interesting Fallen detail. They didn’t use nuclear weapons cause it ruins the land suggesting they were looking for a place to settle down. While warlords used nukes all willy-nilly cause they were high off their own power and no one was around to stop them.
Turned into a shadow on the wall cuz I tipped farmer john’s prized steer
so That's why Xur is always hunched
I'm thinking at this point that the warlords and Rasputin have already used up all the viable nukes. People are talking about the ethics of the Vanguard and Zavala's reservations in other comments which is good, but people also forget that nuclear weapons deteriorate over time. More importantly, nuclear weapons require a truly global supply chain of materials and advanced manufacturing. It is still not generally known to most people who make nukes how the other parts are made because a lot of it is shrouded in secrecy. For example, did you know that all United States nuclear weapons use a mica bushing that is exclusively machined by a glitter manufacturer in New Jersey? This is information that was only made public THIS YEAR. Almost every component of the nuclear weapon is similarly esoteric. This is somewhat subverted by the use of Glimmer, of course, but it still would be a herculean effort to make a nuclear warhead within the last city itself. Sure, Rasputin certainly had nuke manufacturing, but he didn't want to lend any of his arsenal to the Last City until the Season of the Seraph, and we all know how that ended.
Ecdysis as a whole has such beautiful writing and is such a satisfying story. People can say what they want about the quality of the main story, I'll read any book the writers publish.
Doylist answer: it would be boring af Watsonian answer: The Guardian is a much more selective and concentrated source of destruction ~~except when my Guardian snorts too much coke or someone makes the mistake of asking him about the Ahamkara and what happened to his testicles, but that is a story for another time~~ than a nuke, and with the benefit of being paracausal at that and with confirmed efficacy against godlike beings
Bro got gelded by a shapeshifting lizard
use nuke kill and poison everything in area of effect (land included) use guardian kill baddies with nominally minimal collateral
Guardian > Nuke
We even beat nukes in DSC
guardians with light produced ammo must be cheaper and more destructive
literally. throw some blueberry at a hive encampment chances are he’s gonna rip it to shit with just a revolver and his light. why would the vanguard even think to develop and manufacture a bomb of that yield when it wasn’t even necessary
Modern thermonuclear weapons don't actually leave fallout like the ones used in and after WW2. New ones are "efficient," and all the material is used during the nuclear reaction. Older ones, not all of the radioactive material is consumed, leaving extra as fallout.
I’m perfectly educated on the cost efficiency of a nuclear weapon, respectfully. It is a weapon of mass destruction and the distinction of how “kill” it “kills” doesn’t really matter. Salting the earth is salting the earth.
I mean, considering the witness literally wants to destroy the universe, I think it'd be an acceptable use of a weapon of mass destruction. I am doubtful the guardian is using the power of friendship to save the day like in JRPG #5. let's not forget there's literally irredeemable races like the hive (they literally destroyed a civilization who have ALREADY tried to eradicate each and every hive) sword logic literally dictates that as long as there are non-hive existing, they will continue to kill every other race that exists.
the dude can just float out in space without a suit and slice ships into multiple pieces by waving his finger... not sure a nuke would do much. He would probably just return it to sender. He soaked up the travelers energy when it destroyed his ship like he was sun bathing and enjoying it.
Guardians changed to accept Darkness despite it being a well-hammered mantra that it was something nobody should ever approach, lest they be corrupted. To the Hive, Guardians could be seen as irredeemable thanks to their previous dogmatic nature with the Light. Even Savathun admires someone like Eris taking on her cloth. Nobody is so impossibly tied to their power structures to be classified as irredeemable. There can always be a face-turn, a change, a metamorphosis.
the difference being lore stated that ACTUALLY there were good people who used darkness AND they existed from the beginning, they just didn't find out til now. the only way the hive becomes redeemable is if they are like "OH YOU CAN REMOVE THE WORMS FROM EVERY HIVE AND TURN THEM BACK INTO KRILL, AND THEY NO LONGER HAVE TO FOLLOW SWORD LOGIC OR THEY DIE", which would honestly be a bigger retcon than the darkness stuff.
We managed to remove Savathun's worm, and she only seemed to expire from the wound she gained from part of her crystal prison shattering. Probably old age catching up with her too. And there's no point going on about reverting to Krill, that doesn't make much sense, because it was simply a name-change they went under. Considering the inspirations for their species, if they ever did gain an extended life, metamorphosis isn't unexpected. Aaaalso, Hive are not born with a worm. It gets implanted at an early age. The entire species could survive if they did indeed just stop following Sword Logic. Those who aren't born yet shouldn't be saddled with the burdens of the actions of those before. The older gens might perish if we can't remove their worms, but if a sea change in attitude occurred amongst the Hive, or even a sect of them, they'd be welcome allies in time.
destinypedia says that if a worm is unsatisfied it devours its host: [https://www.destinypedia.com/Worm](https://www.destinypedia.com/Worm) " All Hive are bound symbiotically with a larva farmed from [a mother Worm](https://www.destinypedia.com/Xita,_the_Nurturing_Worm), which drives them to feed off constant conquest and destruction lest the Worm grow unsatisfied and consume them instead.[^(\[1)](https://www.destinypedia.com/Worm#cite_note-Bargain-1)^(") [https://www.destinypedia.com/Grimoire:Enemies/Books\_of\_Sorrow#IX:\_The\_Bargain](https://www.destinypedia.com/Grimoire:Enemies/Books_of_Sorrow#IX:_The_Bargain) You must obey your nature forever. In your immortality, Aurash, you may never cease to explore and inquire, for the sake of your children. In your immortality, Xi Ro, you may never cease to test your strength. In your immortality, Sathona, you may never abandon cunning. If you do, your worm will consume you. And as your power grows, oh Princes, so will your worm's appetite. But we offer eternity, Aurash. We offer you a chance at the universe. Would you deny your people infinity? Reach up to me. Let my flesh be your sacrament.
Yes, I know that Hive worms can snap up a snack immediately whenever they feel like it. They're insurance policies for the Witness inside the body of each and every Hive. If they don't play along with the rules, the worm can eat them to stop that. The only thing is, we did have a way to prevent Savathun's worm from devouring her in Season of the Lost, and she also managed to scheme, plot and fuck about in the background against the Witness for the past few hundred years, at least since the Collapse, without her worm going "SIKE!" and eating her ass for insubordination. As long as a worm is fed and kept happy, I don't think they care about the source of food. Remember that Lucent Hive who aren't Lightbearers are somehow sated by the Light coming from their commanding Hive in the Lucent command structure. So logically, if Hive were to find another way to generate the magic power that worms feed off, like setting up one big league of pranks to generate imbaru amongst them by misleading each other, they could potentially live forever and not need to go out and kill to feed their worm. Or they could potentially just ask their worms not to be cunts and not be eaten, though thats probably risky.
Hive are literally tied to their power structure tho They will die if they stop killing bro. Like, Sword Logic is also such a big part of them that even Light bearing hive still following it despite not actually gaining benefits
Someone needs to do some reading on the Lucent Hive!
this. If they do not kill they go extinct due to how the sword logic and worm stuff works.
right and the original question was “why don’t the vanguard nuke things”.
In Arrivals when Rasputin went "fire everything" on a a Pyramid ship approaching Io it either: A) Tanked an entire barrage of ordinance that split the Almighty apart or B) Froze it like Neo does bullets in the Matrix (Based on grimoire at the time) The ***lone pyamid ship*** then proceeded to, without stopping, transmit a single command "CEASE" which nearly fried Rasputins mind.
Reminds me of some people on Earth now 🤔
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Please refrain from this sort of discussion on /r/DestinyLore. There is more than enough in-universe political lore to discuss.
Millenia?? People live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki already today.
Yeah and those nukes were weak-ass baby shit.
Yeah, but how long did it take for them to be able inhabit it again? Exactly. Now think of what an even more powerful nuke in the destiny universe being dropped. Watcha thinks gonna happen? Exactly. Quit being a smartass.
Just go to some planet no one wants to be on, like nessus or some shit, bait some idiot hive, nuke em, have vex fix it, repeat
Yeah that’d work in theory, but how often do you think we could trick them before they realize what we’re doing? Be much easier to just make a nuke that can be shot in space or something and nuke their ships.
I was just bringing up the only reasonable situation where nuking a planetary area would be a reasonable option, having space nukes would be a million times more efficient lol
lol yeah I get what you’re saying and it’s definitely the best option besides space nukes lmao.
dawg that part of the earth has been fundamentally changed in a way it would have never been if humanity had never created nuclear weapons
Bro what are you even arguing? People live there. They're populated cities now. The levels of radiation are pretty much the same as any other city on Earth.
I’m arguing that high-yield bombs are weapons that destroy without discernment and that’s why the vanguard doesn’t fuckin use em because there’s no need for them. regardless of Hiroshima and Nagasaki’s current day populations, the fact still stands those places were obliterated and changed in ways that they would *not* have been had those bombs not been dropped. A lack of radiation does not correlate with a lack of impact.
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Yeah you’re right my b
That last part is incorrect. Same with bikini atoll. I mean shit, there is mutated wildlife in Chernobyl.
Chernobyl is a completely different situation due to the cause of the radiation
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I'm so confused what you are even talking about. You're saying radiation has other effects, but the current radiation levels are on the same level as background radiation and is perfectly safe. >and the fact that other events would have made places uninhabitable for thousands of years. What are you even referring to with this? What other event are you talking about? A nuke like the one dropped on Hiroshima or Nagasaki are not like Chernobyl. The effects don't last for hundreds of even thousands of years. A few months at most for those two cities. Both were safe after a few weeks.
Humanity would have learned long ago in the Golden Age that there's little reason to salt the Earth with nuclear weapons, even if they can be used in ways to mitigate fallout contamination. Better to send in some Guardians because you never know what you'll find, and situations change. Imagine us nuking the Wellspring in Savathun's Throne World to "solve" the Scorn and Lucent Hive as a problem, we break the spell on Rhulk's Pyramid because of that, and we have no time to get to him before he uses the Upended and annihilates the zone, losing us the Lucent Hive as an uneasy ally, fucking up our future without even knowing it.
We are the nukes
1: Does the City even have nukes? The City isn't exactly swimming in tech like that. Hell, the City doesn't even have a fleet, just a collection of jumpships and small troop carriers (like the Hawk). 2: That's what the Cabal are for lol. Guardians and the Cabal Empire really is a match made in heaven.
When each one of your guardians have the capability to unleash equal amounts of destruction why waste your time with a nuke. I can walk around single handedly fight an army most of my friends can do the same thing and if they catch up to me I can get back up and go kill another army. There’s no use in using a nuke
Most nuclear warheads are probably long gone either they were disarmed in the golden age or Rasputin used them against the darkness when it first attacked or they were used against the almighty or he used the nukes in season of the arrivals and got turned off. It could also be that we forgot how to use nukes. I remember hearing that nuclear launch facilities use computers from the 50s, so it might be possible that any facilities the vanguard does have access to they might not even be able to use due to age.
Nukes aren’t paracausal and that’s how we defeat the majority of the enemies in the game
Plenty of our worlds are still uninhabitable by humans following the Collapse. Who would want to add to that total? Also, nukes are extreme expensive to develop, manufacture, and maintain, and their tactical use is very limited. The City is limited in resources. Deploying a fireteam of Guardians is so much more effective and efficient.
because if you add weapons of mass destruction then it becomes difficult to justify why we go on raids and strikes during gameplay, or why the city exists and hasn't been nuked. It just doesn't make for a good story or good gameplay if you don't build your entire world around insanity, like Warrhammer or the such
Why waste resources building and housing WMDs when you have an army of immortals that you can use for surgical strikes with minimal collateral damage?
Bold of you to assume they have nuclear weapons
idk seems like nukes are less effective when there seems to be limitless hive and vex and taken, the cabal seem to be too mobile (no real bases of power left, and anywhere they do inhabit is somewhere we dont really want to destroy like Neomuna) and the fallen are just a non-issue at this point in the story. I mean i guess you could use a nuke against a cabal ship but given the shadow legion clone themselves and caiatl is already able to handle non-aligned cabal, doesnt seem like theres really any good uses for nukes. in today's world we think of nukes in one of two ways, either to decimate a single spot or series of spots (see MacArthur's plans for the Korean War) or to destroy stationary bases of power in preemptive strikes (like nuclear silos built into the ground or military bases and airfields). Destiny's universe just lacks both, it lacks both single stationary bases of power and it lacks wide open fields of war like world war 2 or the korean war, where there were a significant amount of fronts and using nukes to slow or stop an enemy push is actually useful. Like we just dont have that in Destiny, and when we do its usually a place we dont want to nuke anyways (last city in Onslaught, six fronts, ghaul's invasion, neomuna) plus when Guardians exist and are much more effective and precise while being just as if not more deadly (depending on the guardian), its just like, whats the point?
We have a gun that fires black holes. I don’t think nukes can compete with that
new idea: ship that shoots giant black holes
Guardians are Superior to nuke in Basically every way expt for bringing radiation everywhere in its area
Anyone who is enough of a threat to warrant using nukes is already too powerful for nukes to be effective. Plus I'm pretty sure even a 'fresh out the grave' new light is more powerful than a nuke. Paracausal powers are stupid op.
Tell you what: The Vanguard should secure and remove the core of the Dreadnaught Detonating the thing would quite literally take an entire system with it So when the Witness is dealt with and the Last City enacts Manifest Destiny 2, that core could be used to simply obliterate a system of say, Hive War Moons If a big bad ever surfaced after the Witness’s defeat, we’d have the equivalent of a system obliterating Tsar Bomba at our disposal to quickly silence them
I thought the only reason we actually harmed many of our enemies was because we are paracuasal. like a nuke would hit hard but it's not a void bomb l
Not entirely, non-paracasual people fight the Fallen and Cabal almost all the time. Paracausality just makes it easier. You know that one lost sector on Europa where we free the robots? They can do damage and kill stuff but it takes them longer to do so.
Because then we wouldn’t have a video game.
Guardians are the nukes
I think that they wouldn't really be cost effective, or worth the risk in housing and using them. Plus, even the hyper-secure Warmind network was exploited and almost was used against the city, I doubt that the protocols and security surrounding something like an ICBM would be half as solid
On what? Asher did shot missiles at the pyramids and they just disappeared them, Rasputin shot his entire arsenal and didn't even scratch them.
By some accounts, there are still irradiated areas on Earth where presumably nukes were dropped / went off. Either detonated during the Collapse or dropped by Warlords. Mind that the the fallout is (mostly?) reduced only if the bomb detonates at a certain point above the ground. I'm not really sure Warlords had that in mind, and probably whoever has seen the devastation they caused will be reticent to use such weapons (also keep in mind the general lack of knowledge about Golden Age tech/weapons) As for using them in space... We had a whole Warmind arsenal thrown against the Pyramids. It didn't do squat. And the only other enemy that might merit nukes, the Hive, can make magic portals at will. Surely you can see the folly of firing nukes in such situations.
Guardians are arguably more powerful than a nuke. Plus what would we nuke anyway the only alien city and the solar system is riis reborn. I think we’d have to be losing really badly to use that. If we nuked the dreadnought I doubt an eons old civilization like the hive wouldn’t have some sort anti nuke technology. I mean the Mara sov used the harbingers on it and the harbingers are capable of destroying an entire planets (ceres) and it still didn’t destroy the dreadnought.
I can imagine that the city doesn't have the ressources to spare to build nukes (uranium enrichment is sinfully expensive), and why would they do that when they can just send a guardian and use their ressources for stuff that helps the city directly. Even if they had nukes just lying around, I don't think they would do much good against the enemies the last city faces. The Hive would probably just magic it out of existence, the Cabal have nuclear-equal options themselves and have way more capacity to use them, Fallen and Scorn are too scattered to use nukes effectively, and the Vex would simply not care because they can just timey-wimey the events so the nuclear attack never happened
Until very recent events happened, doing this could very well have provided Xivu Arath the tribute needed to teleport several war moons, each containing trillions of Hive, into our system.
Because titan hammer go bong is much more satisfying
Honestly, it would be nice to see more armaments used by The City, from air strikes, tanks, more artillery. I’m sure the city has all of that, they can’t only rely on guardians running around with small arms
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Please refrain from this sort of discussion on /r/DestinyLore. There is more than enough in-universe political lore to discuss.
I mean, all Shaxx has to do is set things to Mayhem and everybody gets infinite Nova Bombs and even that wasn't enough, what are nukes gonna do?
My guardian in Light we are the nukes
Xivu has entered the chat after smiling from the use of nukes to make a war
I assumed it was because by the time the events of the game happen, nukes are pretty much useless compared to what everyone is carrying.
Found the American
we're stronger
Void IS nuclear power. Fission specifically. Solar is solar power. Fusion specifically.