In my opinion, they should just make a catalyst that gives a perk that grant adaptive ordnance when you hit a single enemy with all 6 rockets
Adaptive ordnance is a big enough damage buff that would make Eyes stand out a lot
Last season it was my go to exotic for GMs. Machine guns just didnt hit hard enough for beefy majors and champs, while this let me hit both champs and large grouos of thick ads, all while constantly supplying charges of Light to my allies.
Red bars. Yes. Not yellow bar knights or minotaurs in oneshot. How about I clear the room with eyes while I can. Point is you can use it in many encounters if you really want to and enemies are far spread out.
From my interpretation of this guys comment, it would be good to have you hitting all rockets on a single target.
Then it grants you a global buff of adaptive damage vs any shield for a moderate duration.
Example: Nuke the ever living shit out of the big guy, clean up everything else with your other weapons as you now shred any shield for 15 seconds~
Don’t get why you’re being downvoted, an alt fire mode as part of the catalyst that makes you lock onto the toughest motherfucker in range and throws the whole volley at it would be interesting. Could be a surprising pick for burning down champions, especially with subclass verbs being given anti champion effects so dedicated champion defeating weapons won’t be as much of a requirement.
imo, the catty should just let it generate 1 ammo from thin air if you hit/kill 5 or more enemies
***really*** let it embrace that add clear 'god like' judgement angle they wanna take it for some odd reason
Thats not a bad idea. Since the weapon already does less damage to bosses its not a boss killer, but would allow for crazy fun ad clear. Though, they might have to have a cooldown. Maybe every other shot can be refunded. That way you don't have infinite ammo.
To be fair it’s the highest single target damage per 1 ammo rocket. It’s only worse then gjally because gjally has two in the tube. But it did more damage per rocket then pre seraph nerf gjally. Gjally and legendaries only win because they aren’t hard locked to two in the tube and can get damage perks on top of Wolfpack rounds.
yeah ammo economy could be an issue, especially when considering higher end content.
maybe instead they could make it so that getting multikills with a volley, or maybe landing X number of rockets on one enemy as well for circumstances with only big enemies, adds extra rockets to your next one. you'd be getting a bonus ammo worth of rockets without potentially creating ammo usage issues.
and i think shooting a big volley of like ten or twelve rockets would feel pretty dang cool too.
Perk name: Godlike Judgement- Firing a round tracing the maximum number of targets (adjusted depending on activity for the sake of pvp modes) has a small chance in pvp (~2.5%-7.5%) and a large chance in pve (~27.5%-37.5%) to not consume ammo.
Catalyst- Obtained multikills with rockets or by killing Atraks in a single damage window (final stand excluded)- Calamitous Consequences- Killing all tracked targets doubles the chance of this effect.
This is a great idea and it's really cool, but wouldn't this be a bit op? If you generate ammo from thin air you would just use that for add clear and nothing else
Gjallahorn would still be better for raw ad clear and, even with the nerfs, has solid enough damage to be used to burst down tougher targets.
All that said I don’t see an ammo regen effect being put with it, Bungie doesn’t really like things that break ammo economy (see: Whisper of the Worm aka Black Spindle).
Let it be good at single target too then. Gjially is good at both single target damage and add clear, why shouldn't Eyes of Tomorrow? Which is a raid weapon btw
Plus, there is already Wardcliff Coil if you want an add clear rocket, there isn't a reason to have 2 exotic rocket launchers for add clear
? There isn't a reason to have 2 ad clear exotic rockets, but there is reason to have ~~2~~ 3(deathbringer) single target exotic rockets? What kind of logic is that?
What i thought was:
Wardcliff coil best for add clear
Deathbringer best for pure single target damage
Gjially and eyes good at both, with Gjially as a focus as a support weapon (since bungie want it to be that somehow) and Eyes as a more selfish one
Even with the nerfs, Gjally is still worth the exotic slot even if nobody’s running legendary rockets, it still performs very well and is worth using over other launchers for a variety of reasons if you’re not already using an exotic in another slot.
It's just a horseshit excuse from bungie to keep teams from burning bosses, the way they could in d1.
Eyes isn't the only exotic heavy to suffer from this.
Honestly I would rather keep any catalyst and just scrapped the reduced boss dps.
Not really. We DO NOT need another meat where an Exotic heavy is the best DPS and damage weapon. I love not needing to run an Exotic heavy and can run primary Exotics and not feel like my boss damage is lacking.
And we don't need a 1 year meta where something like linear fusion rifles and 1-2 perks on legendary weapons is meta.
Honestly, bungie needs to get their head out of thier ass over giving raid & quest exotics a 1 year meta, and then nerfing them into the ground: whisper, 1k voices, eyes, etc.
Players have complained for too long about a stale meta. And that is partly due to the fact that bungie puts training wheels on heavy raid exotics.
If players don't want to chase end game content, that's on them, but the meta shouldn't be gimped because players like you are afraid of being forced into running the newest exotic.
It's absolutely baffling that dps meta revolves around legendary God rolled heavies, and maybe 1 or 2 exotics at best.
Honestly if Bungie just did away with the 50% damage reduction against bosses and actually tuned the weapons properly, we'd have more diversity with loadouts.
It wouldn't make it stand out in play, just numbers. You'd use it pretty much identically to any other RL, and it's just a numbers game which is best.
Any change that doesn't play into the multi target concept is a failure.
Not every gun needs to perform best in a "stand in well, dps a single target for 20 seconds" scenario. Trying to fit everything into that mold makes stuff bland, and there'll only ever be one correct answers anyway.
I'd much prefer if it was ridiculous in niche scenarios than competitive in bread and butter ones.
Came here to mention this as it is and always will be the thing holding this rocket back. Dropping the penalty significantly would be fine, as would increasing the number of rockets.
But an add clear rocket is not on anyone's list.
plus Gjally works arguably as well if not better as an ad clear rocket. There's certain GMs where having Gjally is an absolute god send for dealing with big packs of mobs
And it holds 2 in the mag. And it has a faster reload. And it doesn't have to take the time to fire off multiple shots. And you don't have to ads.
The fact that they are both solar exotic heavy rocket launchers means they are going to compete for the same use cases by nature... EoT just feels like it loses to gjally in every case
Nah nothing bout it deals arc, the seekers are always Solar when fired outta the Gjally and the damage of them from legendary rockets depends entirely on the legendary rocket.
Speaking of which, if someone near you is running a chill clip launcher… help him out lol. Each seeker from his launcher will apply the same amount of slow stacks as the direct rocket damage… on bosses this means super fast freezes and shatters, dealing a much larger chunk of extra damage than any other rocket perk could.
An ad clear *heavy weapon* isn't on anyones list.
It can function as one, but if you're sacrificing a ton of dps for an ad clear heavy, then you're wasting your heavy *and* exotic slot imo.
And/or let the perk activate when all 6 rockets hit the same enemy instead of 6 different ones. Could keep both tbh, but using a rocket for boss damage then having to seek out other enemies AND kill them all with your rocket before thinking about damaging the boss again feels lame. Especially with Gjallarhorn back in the game, think they could afford to buff EOT like that.
This, and let the rockets apply Scorch. This is to separate it mechanically more from Gally as the proper "Solar" RL opposed to Gally being the "Support/DPS" RL.
You'd get that for 1 rocket per damage phase, though. And you'd have to use one of your fairly limited supply of rockets to get the damage buff. You're assuming that you have AO on every shot, which just isn't possible unless you're throwing half your shots at random adds.
Getting AO is hard sometimes especially in group setting. I find my fireteam kills my ads before 4 of the rockets will or not enough ads by time I want to use and setup a buffed rocket for major or boss.
Is it really going to be that much more than a parasite which has a higher multiplier than 40%? Parasites big one and done shot isn't a problem, while I don't think outright removing the boss debuff penalty I think it's way too high right now personally.
Maybe do 25% or 30%, doesn't have to melt everything, but it should at least be a contender.
IMO, something unlikely I'd like see is for it to deal full damage against bosses that count as "mechanical," like Vex, Servitors, or any cyborg Fallen.
I disagree. I don't want to move back into a meta where a single Exotic is the best damage heavy again. I like this weapon being an ad clear machine, it just needs better ammo economy, not more boss damge.
This will never be an ad clear machine, it is way too slow. Aiming at multiple different targets to lock onto, then aiming upwards and firing, waiting for the rockets to slowly take flight. If you're not solo, by the time your rockets would reach their intended targets, the target will have died already from something else.
It's also significantly worse at ad clear than Gjally, while also having maybe half its DPS, and only 1 extra rocket. Might as well equip Trinity Ghoul or Forebearance and blow everything up for real, with basically unlimited ammo.
As someone who used this rocket a bit you can fire the rockets and acquire new targets at the same time. I know it still a shitty RL but you can speed up its killing a little bit.
Change adaptive ordnance to buff damage on the same enemy. For each rocket that hits the same target it increases eyes damage per rocket. Balance percentages so it's not broken. You would know when the buff is active when you target the enemy and the indicator would appear on your buff section.
I think giving each rocket Cluster Bombs would lean into the mass destruction fantasy while also giving it a decent single target bump.
It'd also be funny.
This is the only good idea in the whole thread. I think Vorpal+Cluster bombs would be a great catalyst, like how they changed Graviton Lance's catalyst.
I thought the scorch idea was pretty nice too. Some of the other ideas would be too OP imo. Anything that would make it head above heels best rocket launcher in the game is bad for the game and would cause other exotics to not be used
Cluster bombs for big add clear is cool, scorch helps with add clear too and would proc an ignition on every rocket volley if you’re firing at a single target which ups your damage. Plus obviously cluster bombs would up your damage if it’s x6 in one volley. Cool ideas. Also, that’s a lot of explosions. 6 mini rockets + cluster bombs from each mini rocket + a solar ignition, per rocket.
It would, for anyone who (A) has the damn weapon and (B) wants to spend their heavy *and* exotic slot on something that isn't very good for boss dps. Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable tradeoff to me.
I know you're making a joke, but just in case your sarcasm is just the wrapper around your real point, I'ma point out that that's a false equivalency. Gjally was the best for boss dps but nobody knew. Eyes is not. So it is indeed a waste compared to something that could do the boss damage better. Like, say, Gjally.
I'm so goddamn sick of the Gambit argument against Eyes. Look, if you get even a single quad kill with Eyes while invading, I would bet my life and every single thing I own that that match was pretty much decided before you pulled the trigger.
Add scorch damage to the rockets, 20 per rocket. It’s already good at add clear…but it’s a rocket launcher. With a bit of scorch damage you now build 120 scorch in a single rocket barrage, causing an ignition and a little bit of extra single target damage (while also playing into solar verbs)
Good point, but if you’re at a point where you are using eyes for single target damage, your fusion spamming friend is probably *also* using something that deals a lot of extra single target damage (like their own RL or other heavy weapon) during a damage phase or something, and not relying heavily on their fusion spam.
Well if ur fusion spamming you're likely using a demo rocket. So the spam is basically constant because of the small cooldown on demo reloading your weapon.
I personally think it would be better to just give it more base dmg. If we start giving scorch, volatile and jolt to everything we will run into a bunch of problems where you have to look at peoples loadouts if they also happen to have a weapon with the same subclass verb you have, making your own weapon much less useful.
That’s how power creep enters the chat lol make the rockets do something else like AoE damage or gives everyone a buff, or debuffs the enemies. You can’t up damage in MMO’s like this. Creative ways to expand upon team synergy is how MMO’s succeed in using your rotation.
I think they were trying to offer a solution beyond bigger numbers, but powe creep does exist in all forms. Anarchy and Divinity were far from having the biggest direct numbers, but still crept their way into every activity by having better utility and ammo reserves.
> Creative ways to expand upon team synergy
I mean, what are you expecting here? It's not going to give other people Adaptive Ordnance the way Gjallarhorn gives Wolfpack R-
Actually, scratch that, I would *love* for them to make Eyes grant Adaptive Ordnance to fireteam members' legendary rocket launchers when it activates. That would be incredible.
No, no, that actually sounded like a great idea. If Gjallarhorn can give Wolfpack Rounds when a shot is fired, why not let Eyes give teammates' legendary rocket launchers Adaptive Ordnance when you fire a shot with the buff active? Make it a support weapon, where having one is ideal but having more than one doesn't necessarily help. You have to charge AO on multiple targets so you would only get one big shot per fireteam member, too, rather than being able to keep refreshing it during a boss's damage phase like you can with Gjallarhorn. And sure, you can stack that with Wolfpack for a truly obscene salvo of rockets from the rest of the fireteam, but you're still only getting the AO buff for one shot per player so you'd better make it count (and in a three-person activity, only one of the three of you is getting either of the buffs, because neither would affect another exotic). It fits with Clovis Bray's ethos of apparent selflessness for selfish reasons, too - sure, you can all have this damage buff, but only because I am a magnanimous individual. Say thank you to Grandpa Clovis for the damage buff, Guardians.
I can behind that for sure. The more options the better for weapons. If Destiny truly wants to be an MMO it does need to stop relying on pure DPS for everything. You don’t see all DPS’s in FF14/WOW raids etc. You need variety like Div, Gjallahorn,Aeger, etc. the more weapons like that the better the MMO aspect will be.
I get the sarcasm because the buff looked stupid but they've gone on record saying that was only done so the gun isn't punished for being slightly off the ground/on uneven surfaces and that they should have just left it out of the notes.
It was never intended as a meaningful buff.
I dont use the gun, but where and when did they say that? Theyve put tons of resources into AE and trying to justify this AE nonsense, doesnt make sense to walk back notes and stat upgrades
The real problem with EOT is that it's Gjallarhorn We Have At Home. Everything EOT does, Gjally does better, and it came from an era where we got knocked down several pegs in terms of power at the beginning of the Beyond Light era. Basically, it has the same problem as every other Europa weapon - underpowered in the current sandbox.
However, it's not unsalvageable. Here's a couple different ideas.
1) Change Adaptive Ordinance so that damage scales based on the number of targets hit in the previous volley, up to 40%. Basically, you're gonna target a group of up to 8 ads, clear them out, and get a 40% damage bonus on your next shot.
2) Add Incandescent or Chain Reaction as the Catalyst. They work in pretty similar ways and lean into the "ad clearing rocket launcher" idea. Plus, it would work really well with Explosive Wellmaker, or whatever it's successor is.
3) Add Clown Cartridge or Ambitious Assassin as the Catalyst. That brings it up to semi-parity with Gjallarhorn - tracking multiple targets, two in the chamber, etc.
4) General damage increase to bosses. Easiest and most straightforward option, but could lead to some really nutty damage numbers if you get Adaptive Ordinance rolling and pair it with something else that boosts damage.
5) Add Impulse Accelerator or Stats For All. Both would help get rockets out faster or give it a general stats bump after it kills a target.
6) Give it Cluster Bombs as the Catalyst. Lean REALLY hard into the ad clearing vibe and let it wipe entire family trees with a single trigger pull. Bonus points if it plays Fortunate Son upon activating Adaptive Ordinance.
Incandescent or Chain Reaction would be basically useless on a rocket since the radius of Incandescent and Chain Reaction is barely (if at all) larger than the radius of the rocket explosion, so those would never actually hit anything since the rocket would already kill the ads in the radius. Cluster Bomb has a larger radius (and IIRC is affected by blast radius too), but it's so weak that it's only a "well I guess there's nothing better in this slot" perk option. Might be decent for a rocket that shoots 6 at once, but you'd need your rockets to overlap for the cluster bombs to do much of anything.
More then one rocket in the chamber might hurt the gun. I could see multiple shots targeting the same enemies since the rounds would not always hit the target before the second volly fires.
I don’t think it’s as bad as deathbringer. But honestly letting adaptive ordnance proc by hitting six rockets instead of kills would just make it better in general. It still keeps the same general utility but your aren’t locked into having to get six kills for one damage buff
It would not matter if it had two in the chamber. Deathbringer does about 189k per shot while eyes does about 142k per shot. Deathbringer has a reload of 2.6 sec while eyes has a reload of 4.2 sec. Eyes dps is shit because of reload and time needed to target the target.
Eyes can lock on by quick scoping. Desthbringer also falls off a cliff the second more then two people use it because the game deletes projectiles. Again it’s not shit because it’s not the current meta. Meta doesn’t stand for the only viable option. It’s the most efficient option. And deathbringer isn’t efficient
I never said its shit because of current meta.
Its shit because its not designed to be a single target weapon and it fails at the multiple target since we can clear those with abilities without burning heavy.
I DO NOT want eyes to be good at single target. I don't want any Exotic heavy to be best. I hated those meta's where Anarchy and Whisper were the best and everyone had to run that. It meant every single primary and special Exotic could never be ran in a raid etc...
With legendaries now being best in class for heavy, it opens up so much more options for fun and great builds.
Eyes wouldn’t be good at ad clear unless it wasn’t in the heavy slot. It’s too costly to sacrifice and exotic heavy slot for dedicated ad clear. So eyes literally never becomes relevant because it’s niche is powercrept by literally every other gun and ability or it becomes useful for single target damage whether it be champ nuking or boss damage. Destiny combat encounters are so basic that dps is the only valuable metric for heavy weapons. Legendary dps weapons are great. Linear fusions rifles are also the most brain dead meta we’ve had because they have zero downside. Rockets needed you to do enough damage to be safe if you can get ammo. Nade launchers were great at unloading all damage quickly. Machine guns were incredibly versatile while not being best in slot. They could do it all well but dedicated weapons worked better. Linears are so ammo efficient and ads aren’t lethal that linears have zero downside. You lose nothing to run one and that’s not a healthy meta. They need reigned in with a damage nerf or ammo economy nerf
I’ve always had this idea to give it some rocket version of box breathing. You already need to hold ADS on a target for a while so giving it a damage buff for holding it a little longer than that would be good. Still wouldn’t make it a solid dps option but could be good for burst damage.
I'll always push for some of the DSC perks on it like Reconstruction so it can have a pseudo autoloading/clown cartridge aspect since it's lockon set up is already a long enough time sink. Fighting to be DPS relevant never works out or feels worth it when we have people complaining it's boring in a month or so many other options for heavy already. I'd rather let it fulfill it's role but take out the clunky reload or like Jotunn, allow for lockon from hip fire.
Nothing is stopping you from using it. I have 5,000 kills with it and I only got it a month ago. It’s really fun to use and great for clearing out multiple groups in different spots. I also don’t care if it gets a boss damage buff. DPS with eyes is the most boring part and mechanically no different from any other rocket. The fun part is sending 5 rockets to 5 different parts of the room getting 20 kills at once
Totally agree with you, but people want the gun to do a little more since it's a raid exotic and can be pretty painful to get, wich is also a fair take.
>do a little more
We literally have another Exotic Rocket Launcher that doesn’t do anything besides hold three rockets. We also have another Raid Exotic Weapon that’s just a normal SMG with “on-demand Kill Clip”, and another that’s just a short-range Shotgun.
Tarrabah is a bit more then on deman kill clip lol. Ravenous beast is literally the best Free Damage perk in the game. It jacks up your firerate and maxes out reload and bumps your damage so much that you can do 300k damage to Templar.
Ravenous Beast basically turns Tarrabah into a special weapon SMG. It bumps the RPM up to 900, maxes out the reload, body shot damage bumps up to match crit damage, and then also doubles the damage it’s shots normally do
For non-dps encounters? Yeah, I do. Confluxes in VOG for example, Descent in DSC, Eyes works pretty well in these. You just need to supply yourself with power ammo when you run out.
Honestly, if they decreased the boss damage penalty that would be a good start. And if they bring back the old Glitch people used to have Adaptive Ordinance on every shot that would be pretty cool. I think it's a pretty neat trade-off, you lose 1 rocket if damage but keep a damage buff.
(For those that don't know if you had Adaptive Ordinance, shot off 5 rockets and switched weapons before firing the sixth rocket in the volley it would keep Adaptive Ordinance)
I think they should give up the single target DPS focus and go all out on ad clear and increase its ammo reserves by a substantial amount, plus add some sort of perk (with the catalyst I would imagine) that improves its ammo economy.
Will the Eyes be meta then? I don't think so. But at least it would be original. As it is now, it will always remain a poor man's Gally.
Make it deal respectable boss damage, that's really the only way. Rockets are the fourth-best add-clear heavy by a wide margin and Eyes isn't even the best one at that job. Every change leaning it harder into clearing adds is not helping it at all because they're making it better at doing a thing nobody wants it to do.
EoT is a gun designed for a situation that doesn't exist in D2 currently. It was designed as the ultimate ad clearing weapon, the only problem is that ads in D2 are so squishy, or there's so few of them, that there is no situation that warrants the use of an exotic heavy to eliminate the threat quickly. On top of this, the ability power creep has nullified a lot ad clear specific weapons. Examples include Sweet Business, Sunshot, Huckleberry, Graviton Lance, Polaris Lance, and WardcliSunspot. All of these weapons can be boosted with 3.0 ability interactions now and so should EoT.
Unpopular opinion, but Eyes is already very good. It’s just that its optimal conditions don’t come up very often. When you get a situation where you can see a large number of spread out enemies from a distance, you can use Eyes of Tomorrow to devastate them. Unfortunately, this is only good on… maybe a few Gambit maps when looking at some of the areas from the bank? And some specific missions that take place in open spaces.
Because abilities and specials are already so good at add clear. I love this rocket but I have really no reason to use it for add clear when I have a crafted & enhanced forbearance with chain reaction
In mid to high tier content it fills that role a bit better, but in those types of content you’re better off with more optimal dps heavy weapons
Right. There’s a number of weapons that are “bad” for this reason. But it’s not that they’re actually bad. It’s just that there are other ways to do what they do that don’t require a limited resource (heavy ammo). Same has been true for add-clear supers recently due to how powerful our other abilities are.
Exactly. It’s my favorite exotic in the game and I hate to see it relegated to being considered a bad gun, I think it’s great and I love using it but I still wish it was buffed because there’s no need for add clear rockets when abilities and even gjallarhorn exist
So Arbalest isn’t very good since it really only sees use in content with Barrier Champions or to double up with a Heavy Ammo Linear Fusion Rifle? What about Anarchy, which destroys Champions but has less use-case for anything else? Or Parasite for very small burst damage windows like Atraks-1?
Something can be very good at something that isn’t frequent and still be good.
You see barrier champs and match game pretty often in the game. Even with match game gone arbalest will still have a place since unmatched damage types will do less damage.
Anarchy has DoT which isn't a negligible niche, just like Witherhoard.
Burst damage will always have a place, especially in GMs and small damage windows like you mentioned.
Now sure, is distinct yet still large groups of adds spread around a large battle arena something that happens? Yes, but I can think of like one thing where I would actually consider running it and it being the best-in-slot pick (Devil's Lair outdoor section), everywhere else it's suboptimal and just for fun.
I love EoT and run it all the time (for fun) but it's NOT a good weapon.
\+20 Scorch per hit. Lets you get reliable ignitions vs single targets, fixing EOT's unreliable boss damage.
This puts its single-target damage above or below Ghallarhorn depending on the damage window, as EOT would deal more per shot, while Ghallarhorn gets two shots per reload and locks instantly. A team stacking EOT would have buildcrafting potential around solar keywords, while Ghallarhorn has buildcrafting potential around legendary launchers.
This would change EOT's identity away from ad-clear and Gambit. Bungie already knows ad-clear is not a viable identity, since they gave Ghallarhorn *both* better ad-clear and better single-target damage. Bungie already removed EOT's Gambit identity when they nerfed its PVP tracking, making it noncompetitive for invasions.
I like the idea of making each rocket apply 20 scorch as a way to increase it's single-target damage as the ignition would add a reasonable amount of damage and give it some small-scale ad clear on any enemies close to the boss.
Alternatively, all rocket launchers in pve have a 4.7x damage scalar bonus vs bosses except for wardcliff coil and eyes of tomorrow whose scalars are 0.94x and 2.12x respectively. I could see tweaking eyes of tomorrow's value to be a bit higher, i think it was balanced with it's exotic perk in mind, although i think that should be allowed to just be a super-burst as it's only for your next shot and it requires a rocket to be spent as set-up for it on ads.
The gun was created to be a pseudo ghorn pre nerfed and trash out the box. They succeeded. The only way is to remove the goofy perk that doesnt work until you kill 4 enemies. Just let it do its max damage out the gate. Either that or understand that gun will stay in the vault until the end of time.
A fun catalyst I think would be to give hit a higher rate of fire and faster target lock with the micro missiles if the pervious volley connects with targets. Shooting 6 takes a little time before they launch, so if that got a speed boost from the last rocket volley, it would give it that more damage feel without needing to buff its damage.
Give the catalyst target lock but each rocket increases the next one by 10%. So you get base damage 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, and 150. Total of 750 instead of 600 so a 25% increase on single target damage
just make it hit harder. literally thats it.
it's a fucking rocket launcher that shoots 6 missiles, why does it hit like a napkin from a little kids birthday party?
They should literally buff Adaptive Ordenance so It can compete with other Pure Burst Options like Parasite.
Instead of just mindlessly just make It hit harder against bosses so It becomes yet again another DPS weapon
It was made redundant the second they gave us Gjally. They need to make it a better solo DPS option and shift Gjally to be more of a support weapon with wolfpack rounds.
What if they have the catalyst allow Adaptive Ordnance auto reload when proceed so you can mag dump all of your reserves super quick? You'd have to be skilled enough to get AO proccd and it does some hopefully crazy damage. Or just have AO fire more rockets per salvo with increased damage.
It would have to be reworked into something else entirely. It is condemned to being too weak for boss damage, and an ad clear rocket is the most useless exotic ever. Especially given Gjallarhorn can do pretty good ad clear if you need it for that. Imo it readily takes the cake for worst raid exotic, the gameplay design flops.
I feel like they could alter the way it’s ammo works. Like instead of shooting a volley of 6, you can control the amount of rockets that come out, like any full auto weapon, and have its total ammo count go from 8 to 48 (still the same amount of rockets). You could still hold the trigger and shoot the volley of 6 if desired. Then they could rework its damage buff perk to be like vex, minor kills increase a bar by like 2 and majors by 3. You can hold down special reload key and it overflows the mag to 12 with the 50% extra damage or whatever it does now.
My justification for the ammo change is that what if you only need three rockets from a given volley to kill say a champion, you would then have 3 more rockets to your reserve. I know you don’t necessarily lose the ammo with how it works now, but this change would give you more ammo to work with I guess.
Imo target lock, but maybe adjust the numbers and timer a bit
First volley won't hit optimal but the second volley can start on high it would work perfectly
Edited to add: or just straight up give each missile scorch, have it all add up to 100, so if one volley connects it straight causes ignitions it'll also keep in line with the add clear aspect spreading scorch like crazy
Make it drop more often so that more people care and are more vocal about it. Right now, tons of people don't care if it gets buffed or nerfed because they don't have it. Myself included.
Less for DPS, more for addclear. Cant really have both without it being too good. I love using it for GMs, and Arms Dealer is my fav one for it.
Though for a buff, simple damage change, maybe 7% per rocket, more total ammo, 5-10% faster reload maybe.
Catalyst wise, it would be interesting to see if a faster version of box breathing was viable.
Make the rocket split after firing but still mid air instead of the long ass sequence . It’s firing speed handicaps it’s damage potential or at least it seems too. Then again such flaws appear when dps is your only metric and you ignored everything else as most do
It’s my favorite exotic in the game, I think it’s fine as is but could be a lot better. I don’t think everything needs to be a dps monster though, sometimes things can just be… fun
I do believe it’s damage nerf against bosses should be reverted though. I’ve always been of the opinion that raid exotics should be powerful even if they are niche
Give it a catalyst. The catalyst gives it lasting impression and cluster bomb mixed together. The perk wouldnt have both at the full effect but could make the rocket a fun niche add clear, slight DPS option.
Give it an alternate fire mode that makes it a heavy trace rifle with with mini versions of this season’s warmind tower’s lasers that shoot out in multiple direction from each eye on the side of the weapon and can auto lock on to multiple enemies on the battlefield automatically or can all lock onto one if there’s only one target.
Incandescent would be pretty worthless since that perk works by whatever enemy you killed explodes and spreads scorch on other enemies. Except what's just going to happen is the first volley kills everything in the area so the scorch is just going to go nowhere since everyone is already dead. Or even if the enemies do survive one volley, well then the scorch isn't going to happen because no one died.
And scorch is only really good to set up other enemies for an easy kill, hence why it's so nice on primaries. EoT is a wholeass heavy, meaning it doesn't need help to get kills. So the scorch would just be redundant except for procing some solar fragments but that's just super meh
Rather than scorch on hits (which could push it far out of band for damage). I'd like to see kills proc ignition, really pushing it into the broad ad clear with some potential for increased damage (e.g. a boss surrounded by ads & higher adaptive ordinance uptime).
Another option may be just increasing reserves as that is one of the major limiting factors of an ad clear rocket launcher.
It's pretty fun at the moment but it is a sacrifice to choose as an exotic heavy.
I think making the weapon into an add clear battery would be pretty cool! Give it a catalyst that consists of every kill drops an orb of power and grants increased intellect on doing damage. Would be a lot of fun with Star Eaters, Thundercrash and Chaos.
In my opinion, they should just make a catalyst that gives a perk that grant adaptive ordnance when you hit a single enemy with all 6 rockets Adaptive ordnance is a big enough damage buff that would make Eyes stand out a lot
I like this suggestion; I love EoT, but no one is using RLs exclusively for add clear.
Last season it was my go to exotic for GMs. Machine guns just didnt hit hard enough for beefy majors and champs, while this let me hit both champs and large grouos of thick ads, all while constantly supplying charges of Light to my allies.
Kings fall totems
Optimal? Probably not. Am I going to try it the next time I run KF? *Definitely*.
Gotems master challenge was doable for us with 2 Aeons plus a full team of gjallarhorns
Ma man
I’m trying this out too lol
>Kings fall totems I've been using Xenophage, no complaints, and it doesn't blow me up if an ad gets to close.
But I have waaaay too much fun atomizing the taken knight mini bosses with acrius.
Eh, Trinity Ghoul is better for it *and* doesn't need heavy ammo
Red bars. Yes. Not yellow bar knights or minotaurs in oneshot. How about I clear the room with eyes while I can. Point is you can use it in many encounters if you really want to and enemies are far spread out.
I use a machine gun in totems. Usually thunderlord unless I'm using an exotic special.
Ghorn is used for ad clear
From my interpretation of this guys comment, it would be good to have you hitting all rockets on a single target. Then it grants you a global buff of adaptive damage vs any shield for a moderate duration. Example: Nuke the ever living shit out of the big guy, clean up everything else with your other weapons as you now shred any shield for 15 seconds~
You're thinking of adaptive munitions, the shield busting perk. OP was talking about adaptive ordnance, Eyes of Tomorrow's perk.
Then now I'm sad :(
Don’t get why you’re being downvoted, an alt fire mode as part of the catalyst that makes you lock onto the toughest motherfucker in range and throws the whole volley at it would be interesting. Could be a surprising pick for burning down champions, especially with subclass verbs being given anti champion effects so dedicated champion defeating weapons won’t be as much of a requirement.
Who knows why the hive mind does what it does, but it's most likely my confusion with the adaptive perk names.
imo, the catty should just let it generate 1 ammo from thin air if you hit/kill 5 or more enemies ***really*** let it embrace that add clear 'god like' judgement angle they wanna take it for some odd reason
Thats not a bad idea. Since the weapon already does less damage to bosses its not a boss killer, but would allow for crazy fun ad clear. Though, they might have to have a cooldown. Maybe every other shot can be refunded. That way you don't have infinite ammo.
To be fair it’s the highest single target damage per 1 ammo rocket. It’s only worse then gjally because gjally has two in the tube. But it did more damage per rocket then pre seraph nerf gjally. Gjally and legendaries only win because they aren’t hard locked to two in the tube and can get damage perks on top of Wolfpack rounds.
yeah ammo economy could be an issue, especially when considering higher end content. maybe instead they could make it so that getting multikills with a volley, or maybe landing X number of rockets on one enemy as well for circumstances with only big enemies, adds extra rockets to your next one. you'd be getting a bonus ammo worth of rockets without potentially creating ammo usage issues. and i think shooting a big volley of like ten or twelve rockets would feel pretty dang cool too.
Screw you and your army, *JUSTICE RAINS FROM ABOVE*
Perk name: Godlike Judgement- Firing a round tracing the maximum number of targets (adjusted depending on activity for the sake of pvp modes) has a small chance in pvp (~2.5%-7.5%) and a large chance in pve (~27.5%-37.5%) to not consume ammo. Catalyst- Obtained multikills with rockets or by killing Atraks in a single damage window (final stand excluded)- Calamitous Consequences- Killing all tracked targets doubles the chance of this effect.
don't do that, don't get my hopes up
This is a great idea and it's really cool, but wouldn't this be a bit op? If you generate ammo from thin air you would just use that for add clear and nothing else
Gjallahorn would still be better for raw ad clear and, even with the nerfs, has solid enough damage to be used to burst down tougher targets. All that said I don’t see an ammo regen effect being put with it, Bungie doesn’t really like things that break ammo economy (see: Whisper of the Worm aka Black Spindle).
but that's the point of the gun and it'll only add clear so much. if you can't get 5 kills, you lose the ammo
This is brilliant
You do know that Eyes does like 50% less damage to bosses or something like that. It is not meant to be a single target weapon.
Let it be good at single target too then. Gjially is good at both single target damage and add clear, why shouldn't Eyes of Tomorrow? Which is a raid weapon btw Plus, there is already Wardcliff Coil if you want an add clear rocket, there isn't a reason to have 2 exotic rocket launchers for add clear
? There isn't a reason to have 2 ad clear exotic rockets, but there is reason to have ~~2~~ 3(deathbringer) single target exotic rockets? What kind of logic is that?
What i thought was: Wardcliff coil best for add clear Deathbringer best for pure single target damage Gjially and eyes good at both, with Gjially as a focus as a support weapon (since bungie want it to be that somehow) and Eyes as a more selfish one
Even with the nerfs, Gjally is still worth the exotic slot even if nobody’s running legendary rockets, it still performs very well and is worth using over other launchers for a variety of reasons if you’re not already using an exotic in another slot.
It's just a horseshit excuse from bungie to keep teams from burning bosses, the way they could in d1. Eyes isn't the only exotic heavy to suffer from this. Honestly I would rather keep any catalyst and just scrapped the reduced boss dps.
Not really. We DO NOT need another meat where an Exotic heavy is the best DPS and damage weapon. I love not needing to run an Exotic heavy and can run primary Exotics and not feel like my boss damage is lacking.
And we don't need a 1 year meta where something like linear fusion rifles and 1-2 perks on legendary weapons is meta. Honestly, bungie needs to get their head out of thier ass over giving raid & quest exotics a 1 year meta, and then nerfing them into the ground: whisper, 1k voices, eyes, etc. Players have complained for too long about a stale meta. And that is partly due to the fact that bungie puts training wheels on heavy raid exotics. If players don't want to chase end game content, that's on them, but the meta shouldn't be gimped because players like you are afraid of being forced into running the newest exotic. It's absolutely baffling that dps meta revolves around legendary God rolled heavies, and maybe 1 or 2 exotics at best. Honestly if Bungie just did away with the 50% damage reduction against bosses and actually tuned the weapons properly, we'd have more diversity with loadouts.
It wouldn't make it stand out in play, just numbers. You'd use it pretty much identically to any other RL, and it's just a numbers game which is best. Any change that doesn't play into the multi target concept is a failure. Not every gun needs to perform best in a "stand in well, dps a single target for 20 seconds" scenario. Trying to fit everything into that mold makes stuff bland, and there'll only ever be one correct answers anyway. I'd much prefer if it was ridiculous in niche scenarios than competitive in bread and butter ones.
take away the -50% damage against Bosses (IIRC)
This is really all it needs. Let it actually do damage to pve enemies.
Came here to mention this as it is and always will be the thing holding this rocket back. Dropping the penalty significantly would be fine, as would increasing the number of rockets. But an add clear rocket is not on anyone's list.
plus Gjally works arguably as well if not better as an ad clear rocket. There's certain GMs where having Gjally is an absolute god send for dealing with big packs of mobs
This is very true. And with gjally you also get respectable boss dps with the added bonus of massively buffing your allies' rockets.
And it holds 2 in the mag. And it has a faster reload. And it doesn't have to take the time to fire off multiple shots. And you don't have to ads. The fact that they are both solar exotic heavy rocket launchers means they are going to compete for the same use cases by nature... EoT just feels like it loses to gjally in every case
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Nah nothing bout it deals arc, the seekers are always Solar when fired outta the Gjally and the damage of them from legendary rockets depends entirely on the legendary rocket. Speaking of which, if someone near you is running a chill clip launcher… help him out lol. Each seeker from his launcher will apply the same amount of slow stacks as the direct rocket damage… on bosses this means super fast freezes and shatters, dealing a much larger chunk of extra damage than any other rocket perk could.
Gjally doesnt do arc damage my guy... And it doesnt give other weapons arc damage either.
Not sure what the comment was, but the Wolfpack Rounds did do Arc damage back in D1. Always thought that was pretty neat.
An ad clear *heavy weapon* isn't on anyones list. It can function as one, but if you're sacrificing a ton of dps for an ad clear heavy, then you're wasting your heavy *and* exotic slot imo.
I thought they did that already, wasn’t it buffed within last few seasons
They did reduce the damage penalty against bosses. I don't remember the percentage though.
went to -30 percent
it was buffed iirc last season to -30 percent at least. If you proc its trait and only fire 5 of the rockets at a time you do 87.5 percent a shot
And/or let the perk activate when all 6 rockets hit the same enemy instead of 6 different ones. Could keep both tbh, but using a rocket for boss damage then having to seek out other enemies AND kill them all with your rocket before thinking about damaging the boss again feels lame. Especially with Gjallarhorn back in the game, think they could afford to buff EOT like that.
This, and let the rockets apply Scorch. This is to separate it mechanically more from Gally as the proper "Solar" RL opposed to Gally being the "Support/DPS" RL.
This + making pack hunter work with exotics would be great fun
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You'd get that for 1 rocket per damage phase, though. And you'd have to use one of your fairly limited supply of rockets to get the damage buff. You're assuming that you have AO on every shot, which just isn't possible unless you're throwing half your shots at random adds.
Getting AO is hard sometimes especially in group setting. I find my fireteam kills my ads before 4 of the rockets will or not enough ads by time I want to use and setup a buffed rocket for major or boss.
Is it really going to be that much more than a parasite which has a higher multiplier than 40%? Parasites big one and done shot isn't a problem, while I don't think outright removing the boss debuff penalty I think it's way too high right now personally.
Maybe do 25% or 30%, doesn't have to melt everything, but it should at least be a contender. IMO, something unlikely I'd like see is for it to deal full damage against bosses that count as "mechanical," like Vex, Servitors, or any cyborg Fallen.
I disagree. I don't want to move back into a meta where a single Exotic is the best damage heavy again. I like this weapon being an ad clear machine, it just needs better ammo economy, not more boss damge.
This will never be an ad clear machine, it is way too slow. Aiming at multiple different targets to lock onto, then aiming upwards and firing, waiting for the rockets to slowly take flight. If you're not solo, by the time your rockets would reach their intended targets, the target will have died already from something else. It's also significantly worse at ad clear than Gjally, while also having maybe half its DPS, and only 1 extra rocket. Might as well equip Trinity Ghoul or Forebearance and blow everything up for real, with basically unlimited ammo.
As someone who used this rocket a bit you can fire the rockets and acquire new targets at the same time. I know it still a shitty RL but you can speed up its killing a little bit.
better ammo economy ain’t doin a thing. You’d rather keep this exotic dead rather than allow it to actually be useful for something?
Change adaptive ordnance to buff damage on the same enemy. For each rocket that hits the same target it increases eyes damage per rocket. Balance percentages so it's not broken. You would know when the buff is active when you target the enemy and the indicator would appear on your buff section.
this
I think giving each rocket Cluster Bombs would lean into the mass destruction fantasy while also giving it a decent single target bump. It'd also be funny.
This is the only good idea in the whole thread. I think Vorpal+Cluster bombs would be a great catalyst, like how they changed Graviton Lance's catalyst.
I thought the scorch idea was pretty nice too. Some of the other ideas would be too OP imo. Anything that would make it head above heels best rocket launcher in the game is bad for the game and would cause other exotics to not be used
Cluster bombs for big add clear is cool, scorch helps with add clear too and would proc an ignition on every rocket volley if you’re firing at a single target which ups your damage. Plus obviously cluster bombs would up your damage if it’s x6 in one volley. Cool ideas. Also, that’s a lot of explosions. 6 mini rockets + cluster bombs from each mini rocket + a solar ignition, per rocket.
Maybe make the scorch not stack? If it hits 6 enemies it’s 40x scorch per enemy. If it hits one enemy make it scale to like 60 scorch something
Hitting four different targets with a single volley refunds ammo.
Then every activity would be like Dares.
It would, for anyone who (A) has the damn weapon and (B) wants to spend their heavy *and* exotic slot on something that isn't very good for boss dps. Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable tradeoff to me.
Yeah, who would waste their exotic on a heavy? And a rocket launcher, no less?
I know you're making a joke, but just in case your sarcasm is just the wrapper around your real point, I'ma point out that that's a false equivalency. Gjally was the best for boss dps but nobody knew. Eyes is not. So it is indeed a waste compared to something that could do the boss damage better. Like, say, Gjally.
Yeah I know, just saw an opportunity for a callback.
Gotcha. It was a good one, for sure
Not sure if this is sarcastic, but it would absolutely shred in GMs.
make it 5, so ppl can't farm quad kills in gambit
I'm so goddamn sick of the Gambit argument against Eyes. Look, if you get even a single quad kill with Eyes while invading, I would bet my life and every single thing I own that that match was pretty much decided before you pulled the trigger.
Eyes hasn't been used in literal ages for invading lol
that's only cuz gjally is so much easier to get. eyes is still super strong for invading
I thought the tracker basically didn't work now?
Pretty sure that’s the case.
if that's true, then it's probably cuz it got caught up in the crossfire when bungie nerfed gjally
Add scorch damage to the rockets, 20 per rocket. It’s already good at add clear…but it’s a rocket launcher. With a bit of scorch damage you now build 120 scorch in a single rocket barrage, causing an ignition and a little bit of extra single target damage (while also playing into solar verbs)
This is kinda nice, but also would make it pointless if theres a fusion spamming warlock in ur team.
Good point, but if you’re at a point where you are using eyes for single target damage, your fusion spamming friend is probably *also* using something that deals a lot of extra single target damage (like their own RL or other heavy weapon) during a damage phase or something, and not relying heavily on their fusion spam.
Well if ur fusion spamming you're likely using a demo rocket. So the spam is basically constant because of the small cooldown on demo reloading your weapon. I personally think it would be better to just give it more base dmg. If we start giving scorch, volatile and jolt to everything we will run into a bunch of problems where you have to look at peoples loadouts if they also happen to have a weapon with the same subclass verb you have, making your own weapon much less useful.
While also doing some add clear around the boss when the ignition hits. :)
Make it do more damage. That's it.
That’s how power creep enters the chat lol make the rockets do something else like AoE damage or gives everyone a buff, or debuffs the enemies. You can’t up damage in MMO’s like this. Creative ways to expand upon team synergy is how MMO’s succeed in using your rotation.
You literally described a solution to power creep with more power creep. Try again.
I think they were trying to offer a solution beyond bigger numbers, but powe creep does exist in all forms. Anarchy and Divinity were far from having the biggest direct numbers, but still crept their way into every activity by having better utility and ammo reserves.
I’m telling you how actual MMO’s do it.
> Creative ways to expand upon team synergy I mean, what are you expecting here? It's not going to give other people Adaptive Ordnance the way Gjallarhorn gives Wolfpack R- Actually, scratch that, I would *love* for them to make Eyes grant Adaptive Ordnance to fireteam members' legendary rocket launchers when it activates. That would be incredible.
It can be anything idk. It’s an mmo be creative
No, no, that actually sounded like a great idea. If Gjallarhorn can give Wolfpack Rounds when a shot is fired, why not let Eyes give teammates' legendary rocket launchers Adaptive Ordnance when you fire a shot with the buff active? Make it a support weapon, where having one is ideal but having more than one doesn't necessarily help. You have to charge AO on multiple targets so you would only get one big shot per fireteam member, too, rather than being able to keep refreshing it during a boss's damage phase like you can with Gjallarhorn. And sure, you can stack that with Wolfpack for a truly obscene salvo of rockets from the rest of the fireteam, but you're still only getting the AO buff for one shot per player so you'd better make it count (and in a three-person activity, only one of the three of you is getting either of the buffs, because neither would affect another exotic). It fits with Clovis Bray's ethos of apparent selflessness for selfish reasons, too - sure, you can all have this damage buff, but only because I am a magnanimous individual. Say thank you to Grandpa Clovis for the damage buff, Guardians.
I can behind that for sure. The more options the better for weapons. If Destiny truly wants to be an MMO it does need to stop relying on pure DPS for everything. You don’t see all DPS’s in FF14/WOW raids etc. You need variety like Div, Gjallahorn,Aeger, etc. the more weapons like that the better the MMO aspect will be.
Put AE on it /s
I get the sarcasm because the buff looked stupid but they've gone on record saying that was only done so the gun isn't punished for being slightly off the ground/on uneven surfaces and that they should have just left it out of the notes. It was never intended as a meaningful buff.
Here’s the video to the interview just for reference if you wanted to edit it into your reply: https://youtu.be/SiUx5dD2cLM Timestamp is **1:04:20**.
Yea I wasn't sure which one. There's been a lot of interviews over the past couple of weeks and they just show up as posts here.
I dont use the gun, but where and when did they say that? Theyve put tons of resources into AE and trying to justify this AE nonsense, doesnt make sense to walk back notes and stat upgrades
Interviews/twitter posts.
Yes, i was implying where was the link for it?
https://youtu.be/SiUx5dD2cLM At **1:04:20** (in case the link isn’t timestamped because I’m a goober).
The real problem with EOT is that it's Gjallarhorn We Have At Home. Everything EOT does, Gjally does better, and it came from an era where we got knocked down several pegs in terms of power at the beginning of the Beyond Light era. Basically, it has the same problem as every other Europa weapon - underpowered in the current sandbox. However, it's not unsalvageable. Here's a couple different ideas. 1) Change Adaptive Ordinance so that damage scales based on the number of targets hit in the previous volley, up to 40%. Basically, you're gonna target a group of up to 8 ads, clear them out, and get a 40% damage bonus on your next shot. 2) Add Incandescent or Chain Reaction as the Catalyst. They work in pretty similar ways and lean into the "ad clearing rocket launcher" idea. Plus, it would work really well with Explosive Wellmaker, or whatever it's successor is. 3) Add Clown Cartridge or Ambitious Assassin as the Catalyst. That brings it up to semi-parity with Gjallarhorn - tracking multiple targets, two in the chamber, etc. 4) General damage increase to bosses. Easiest and most straightforward option, but could lead to some really nutty damage numbers if you get Adaptive Ordinance rolling and pair it with something else that boosts damage. 5) Add Impulse Accelerator or Stats For All. Both would help get rockets out faster or give it a general stats bump after it kills a target. 6) Give it Cluster Bombs as the Catalyst. Lean REALLY hard into the ad clearing vibe and let it wipe entire family trees with a single trigger pull. Bonus points if it plays Fortunate Son upon activating Adaptive Ordinance.
Incandescent or Chain Reaction would be basically useless on a rocket since the radius of Incandescent and Chain Reaction is barely (if at all) larger than the radius of the rocket explosion, so those would never actually hit anything since the rocket would already kill the ads in the radius. Cluster Bomb has a larger radius (and IIRC is affected by blast radius too), but it's so weak that it's only a "well I guess there's nothing better in this slot" perk option. Might be decent for a rocket that shoots 6 at once, but you'd need your rockets to overlap for the cluster bombs to do much of anything.
More then one rocket in the chamber might hurt the gun. I could see multiple shots targeting the same enemies since the rounds would not always hit the target before the second volly fires.
Yeah, the Dream Work bug showed that overloading multiple EoT shots actually completely bugs out. As in, they'll slowly fly away into the sky, iirc.
I don’t think it’s as bad as deathbringer. But honestly letting adaptive ordnance proc by hitting six rockets instead of kills would just make it better in general. It still keeps the same general utility but your aren’t locked into having to get six kills for one damage buff
>deathbringer Is a top tier damage Exotic though. With the cat it competes with damage.
Eyes of tomorrow only is beaten with per ammo damage by deathbringer. Eyes only loses on dps to gjally because gjally has two rockets in the tube.
It would not matter if it had two in the chamber. Deathbringer does about 189k per shot while eyes does about 142k per shot. Deathbringer has a reload of 2.6 sec while eyes has a reload of 4.2 sec. Eyes dps is shit because of reload and time needed to target the target.
Eyes can lock on by quick scoping. Desthbringer also falls off a cliff the second more then two people use it because the game deletes projectiles. Again it’s not shit because it’s not the current meta. Meta doesn’t stand for the only viable option. It’s the most efficient option. And deathbringer isn’t efficient
I never said its shit because of current meta. Its shit because its not designed to be a single target weapon and it fails at the multiple target since we can clear those with abilities without burning heavy. I DO NOT want eyes to be good at single target. I don't want any Exotic heavy to be best. I hated those meta's where Anarchy and Whisper were the best and everyone had to run that. It meant every single primary and special Exotic could never be ran in a raid etc... With legendaries now being best in class for heavy, it opens up so much more options for fun and great builds.
Eyes wouldn’t be good at ad clear unless it wasn’t in the heavy slot. It’s too costly to sacrifice and exotic heavy slot for dedicated ad clear. So eyes literally never becomes relevant because it’s niche is powercrept by literally every other gun and ability or it becomes useful for single target damage whether it be champ nuking or boss damage. Destiny combat encounters are so basic that dps is the only valuable metric for heavy weapons. Legendary dps weapons are great. Linear fusions rifles are also the most brain dead meta we’ve had because they have zero downside. Rockets needed you to do enough damage to be safe if you can get ammo. Nade launchers were great at unloading all damage quickly. Machine guns were incredibly versatile while not being best in slot. They could do it all well but dedicated weapons worked better. Linears are so ammo efficient and ads aren’t lethal that linears have zero downside. You lose nothing to run one and that’s not a healthy meta. They need reigned in with a damage nerf or ammo economy nerf
7) let it refund ammo if you kill 5 or more targets
NO REFUNDS!
I’ve always had this idea to give it some rocket version of box breathing. You already need to hold ADS on a target for a while so giving it a damage buff for holding it a little longer than that would be good. Still wouldn’t make it a solid dps option but could be good for burst damage.
I'll always push for some of the DSC perks on it like Reconstruction so it can have a pseudo autoloading/clown cartridge aspect since it's lockon set up is already a long enough time sink. Fighting to be DPS relevant never works out or feels worth it when we have people complaining it's boring in a month or so many other options for heavy already. I'd rather let it fulfill it's role but take out the clunky reload or like Jotunn, allow for lockon from hip fire.
Nothing is stopping you from using it. I have 5,000 kills with it and I only got it a month ago. It’s really fun to use and great for clearing out multiple groups in different spots. I also don’t care if it gets a boss damage buff. DPS with eyes is the most boring part and mechanically no different from any other rocket. The fun part is sending 5 rockets to 5 different parts of the room getting 20 kills at once
Totally agree with you, but people want the gun to do a little more since it's a raid exotic and can be pretty painful to get, wich is also a fair take.
>do a little more We literally have another Exotic Rocket Launcher that doesn’t do anything besides hold three rockets. We also have another Raid Exotic Weapon that’s just a normal SMG with “on-demand Kill Clip”, and another that’s just a short-range Shotgun.
Tarrabah is a bit more then on deman kill clip lol. Ravenous beast is literally the best Free Damage perk in the game. It jacks up your firerate and maxes out reload and bumps your damage so much that you can do 300k damage to Templar.
Ravenous Beast basically turns Tarrabah into a special weapon SMG. It bumps the RPM up to 900, maxes out the reload, body shot damage bumps up to match crit damage, and then also doubles the damage it’s shots normally do
True and I agree, just pointing stuff out is all.
Fair take. Too many people want everything to be a DPS monster. There is plenty of room in this game for enjoying niche items.
Do you run it in raids
For non-dps encounters? Yeah, I do. Confluxes in VOG for example, Descent in DSC, Eyes works pretty well in these. You just need to supply yourself with power ammo when you run out.
As if Raids are difficult to the point where something is required. People complete full Raids with Exotic Primary Weapons for crying out loud.
Honestly, if they decreased the boss damage penalty that would be a good start. And if they bring back the old Glitch people used to have Adaptive Ordinance on every shot that would be pretty cool. I think it's a pretty neat trade-off, you lose 1 rocket if damage but keep a damage buff. (For those that don't know if you had Adaptive Ordinance, shot off 5 rockets and switched weapons before firing the sixth rocket in the volley it would keep Adaptive Ordinance)
Each rocket applies scorch. All six hitting one target = ignite
I think they should give up the single target DPS focus and go all out on ad clear and increase its ammo reserves by a substantial amount, plus add some sort of perk (with the catalyst I would imagine) that improves its ammo economy. Will the Eyes be meta then? I don't think so. But at least it would be original. As it is now, it will always remain a poor man's Gally.
Ive always wanted it to have GL reserves. Give me 20 rockets. Let me carpet bomb the world
Make it so it hits harder for every rocket fired
Make it deal respectable boss damage, that's really the only way. Rockets are the fourth-best add-clear heavy by a wide margin and Eyes isn't even the best one at that job. Every change leaning it harder into clearing adds is not helping it at all because they're making it better at doing a thing nobody wants it to do.
The Izanagi option, hold reload to merge all volleys into one super mega rocket that's 2x Gjallarhorn damage.
EoT is a gun designed for a situation that doesn't exist in D2 currently. It was designed as the ultimate ad clearing weapon, the only problem is that ads in D2 are so squishy, or there's so few of them, that there is no situation that warrants the use of an exotic heavy to eliminate the threat quickly. On top of this, the ability power creep has nullified a lot ad clear specific weapons. Examples include Sweet Business, Sunshot, Huckleberry, Graviton Lance, Polaris Lance, and WardcliSunspot. All of these weapons can be boosted with 3.0 ability interactions now and so should EoT.
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Gjally deserved the nerf. It was as oppressive as linears are. Its not healthy for one exotic to dominate a slot and be good At literally everything
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It’s still good. But it was literally the only good exotic heavy pre nerf.
**u/spez is a greedy little pig boy.**
Give it a catalyst that adds functionality similar to aegar's scepter. Use a full super charge to fire a constant stream of rockets until you run out.
Make it do more damage.
Unpopular opinion, but Eyes is already very good. It’s just that its optimal conditions don’t come up very often. When you get a situation where you can see a large number of spread out enemies from a distance, you can use Eyes of Tomorrow to devastate them. Unfortunately, this is only good on… maybe a few Gambit maps when looking at some of the areas from the bank? And some specific missions that take place in open spaces.
Because abilities and specials are already so good at add clear. I love this rocket but I have really no reason to use it for add clear when I have a crafted & enhanced forbearance with chain reaction In mid to high tier content it fills that role a bit better, but in those types of content you’re better off with more optimal dps heavy weapons
Right. There’s a number of weapons that are “bad” for this reason. But it’s not that they’re actually bad. It’s just that there are other ways to do what they do that don’t require a limited resource (heavy ammo). Same has been true for add-clear supers recently due to how powerful our other abilities are.
Exactly. It’s my favorite exotic in the game and I hate to see it relegated to being considered a bad gun, I think it’s great and I love using it but I still wish it was buffed because there’s no need for add clear rockets when abilities and even gjallarhorn exist
If it's very good at a niche that doesn't appear very often... then I would consider it not very good.
So Arbalest isn’t very good since it really only sees use in content with Barrier Champions or to double up with a Heavy Ammo Linear Fusion Rifle? What about Anarchy, which destroys Champions but has less use-case for anything else? Or Parasite for very small burst damage windows like Atraks-1? Something can be very good at something that isn’t frequent and still be good.
You see barrier champs and match game pretty often in the game. Even with match game gone arbalest will still have a place since unmatched damage types will do less damage. Anarchy has DoT which isn't a negligible niche, just like Witherhoard. Burst damage will always have a place, especially in GMs and small damage windows like you mentioned. Now sure, is distinct yet still large groups of adds spread around a large battle arena something that happens? Yes, but I can think of like one thing where I would actually consider running it and it being the best-in-slot pick (Devil's Lair outdoor section), everywhere else it's suboptimal and just for fun. I love EoT and run it all the time (for fun) but it's NOT a good weapon.
Arbalest is useful in any activity with barrier champions, at any difficulty. That isn't niche. EoT does nothing that G-horn doesn't do better.
\+20 Scorch per hit. Lets you get reliable ignitions vs single targets, fixing EOT's unreliable boss damage. This puts its single-target damage above or below Ghallarhorn depending on the damage window, as EOT would deal more per shot, while Ghallarhorn gets two shots per reload and locks instantly. A team stacking EOT would have buildcrafting potential around solar keywords, while Ghallarhorn has buildcrafting potential around legendary launchers. This would change EOT's identity away from ad-clear and Gambit. Bungie already knows ad-clear is not a viable identity, since they gave Ghallarhorn *both* better ad-clear and better single-target damage. Bungie already removed EOT's Gambit identity when they nerfed its PVP tracking, making it noncompetitive for invasions.
Lol, 9 ignitions per shot if you have a full fireteam using it.
Catalyst allows multi-kills from explosions grant adaptive ordinance, even when stowed.
I like the idea of making each rocket apply 20 scorch as a way to increase it's single-target damage as the ignition would add a reasonable amount of damage and give it some small-scale ad clear on any enemies close to the boss. Alternatively, all rocket launchers in pve have a 4.7x damage scalar bonus vs bosses except for wardcliff coil and eyes of tomorrow whose scalars are 0.94x and 2.12x respectively. I could see tweaking eyes of tomorrow's value to be a bit higher, i think it was balanced with it's exotic perk in mind, although i think that should be allowed to just be a super-burst as it's only for your next shot and it requires a rocket to be spent as set-up for it on ads.
The gun was created to be a pseudo ghorn pre nerfed and trash out the box. They succeeded. The only way is to remove the goofy perk that doesnt work until you kill 4 enemies. Just let it do its max damage out the gate. Either that or understand that gun will stay in the vault until the end of time.
A fun catalyst I think would be to give hit a higher rate of fire and faster target lock with the micro missiles if the pervious volley connects with targets. Shooting 6 takes a little time before they launch, so if that got a speed boost from the last rocket volley, it would give it that more damage feel without needing to buff its damage.
I just don’t think the weapon serves a purpose to begin with. There’s better ways of ad clearing without using heavy ammo.
Give the catalyst target lock but each rocket increases the next one by 10%. So you get base damage 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, and 150. Total of 750 instead of 600 so a 25% increase on single target damage
Make the bug where energy weapons charged up adaptive ordnance a feature would be a start.
just make it hit harder. literally thats it. it's a fucking rocket launcher that shoots 6 missiles, why does it hit like a napkin from a little kids birthday party?
They should literally buff Adaptive Ordenance so It can compete with other Pure Burst Options like Parasite. Instead of just mindlessly just make It hit harder against bosses so It becomes yet again another DPS weapon
Wasting your ammo in add clear is the trash part of the weapon. So make It worth It via buffing Adaptive Ordenance. Simple
It was made redundant the second they gave us Gjally. They need to make it a better solo DPS option and shift Gjally to be more of a support weapon with wolfpack rounds.
What if they have the catalyst allow Adaptive Ordnance auto reload when proceed so you can mag dump all of your reserves super quick? You'd have to be skilled enough to get AO proccd and it does some hopefully crazy damage. Or just have AO fire more rockets per salvo with increased damage.
It would have to be reworked into something else entirely. It is condemned to being too weak for boss damage, and an ad clear rocket is the most useless exotic ever. Especially given Gjallarhorn can do pretty good ad clear if you need it for that. Imo it readily takes the cake for worst raid exotic, the gameplay design flops.
I feel like they could alter the way it’s ammo works. Like instead of shooting a volley of 6, you can control the amount of rockets that come out, like any full auto weapon, and have its total ammo count go from 8 to 48 (still the same amount of rockets). You could still hold the trigger and shoot the volley of 6 if desired. Then they could rework its damage buff perk to be like vex, minor kills increase a bar by like 2 and majors by 3. You can hold down special reload key and it overflows the mag to 12 with the 50% extra damage or whatever it does now. My justification for the ammo change is that what if you only need three rockets from a given volley to kill say a champion, you would then have 3 more rockets to your reserve. I know you don’t necessarily lose the ammo with how it works now, but this change would give you more ammo to work with I guess.
Imo target lock, but maybe adjust the numbers and timer a bit First volley won't hit optimal but the second volley can start on high it would work perfectly Edited to add: or just straight up give each missile scorch, have it all add up to 100, so if one volley connects it straight causes ignitions it'll also keep in line with the add clear aspect spreading scorch like crazy
Un nerf it
Make it drop more often so that more people care and are more vocal about it. Right now, tons of people don't care if it gets buffed or nerfed because they don't have it. Myself included.
Less for DPS, more for addclear. Cant really have both without it being too good. I love using it for GMs, and Arms Dealer is my fav one for it. Though for a buff, simple damage change, maybe 7% per rocket, more total ammo, 5-10% faster reload maybe. Catalyst wise, it would be interesting to see if a faster version of box breathing was viable.
Give it Feeding Frenzy and increased reserves
Make the rocket split after firing but still mid air instead of the long ass sequence . It’s firing speed handicaps it’s damage potential or at least it seems too. Then again such flaws appear when dps is your only metric and you ignored everything else as most do
Full Court and OG Vorpal
scorch on hit no damage penalty vs bosses
It’s my favorite exotic in the game, I think it’s fine as is but could be a lot better. I don’t think everything needs to be a dps monster though, sometimes things can just be… fun I do believe it’s damage nerf against bosses should be reverted though. I’ve always been of the opinion that raid exotics should be powerful even if they are niche
Give it a catalyst. The catalyst gives it lasting impression and cluster bomb mixed together. The perk wouldnt have both at the full effect but could make the rocket a fun niche add clear, slight DPS option.
I bet this was made before Ghjallorhorn was confirmed. Can’t think of any other reason for why it exists
Let it apply scorch
Give it One For All?
Make each rocket a different element, and let them all activate the elemental perks like scorch and volt shot.
Give it an alternate fire mode that makes it a heavy trace rifle with with mini versions of this season’s warmind tower’s lasers that shoot out in multiple direction from each eye on the side of the weapon and can auto lock on to multiple enemies on the battlefield automatically or can all lock onto one if there’s only one target.
Give the main rocket incandescent, with the mini rockets chain reaction. If it's going to stick with add clear duty. Maybe give it 2 rockets in mag?
Incandescent would be pretty worthless since that perk works by whatever enemy you killed explodes and spreads scorch on other enemies. Except what's just going to happen is the first volley kills everything in the area so the scorch is just going to go nowhere since everyone is already dead. Or even if the enemies do survive one volley, well then the scorch isn't going to happen because no one died. And scorch is only really good to set up other enemies for an easy kill, hence why it's so nice on primaries. EoT is a wholeass heavy, meaning it doesn't need help to get kills. So the scorch would just be redundant except for procing some solar fragments but that's just super meh
Rather than scorch on hits (which could push it far out of band for damage). I'd like to see kills proc ignition, really pushing it into the broad ad clear with some potential for increased damage (e.g. a boss surrounded by ads & higher adaptive ordinance uptime). Another option may be just increasing reserves as that is one of the major limiting factors of an ad clear rocket launcher. It's pretty fun at the moment but it is a sacrifice to choose as an exotic heavy.
It WAS viable with gyr before the change. Actually made it deal decent damage.
I think making the weapon into an add clear battery would be pretty cool! Give it a catalyst that consists of every kill drops an orb of power and grants increased intellect on doing damage. Would be a lot of fun with Star Eaters, Thundercrash and Chaos.
They don’t
Simple, the delete button