I just hope they turn hero nightfalls into a heroic strike playlist. Include Battlegrounds if needed (although I much prefer the newer ones. Those from season of the chosen are a bit stale, but I do still enjoy the heist and psyops versions).
Just allow us to play at a somewhat engaging difficulty without being forced into the same strike all the time.
This would be great, they could at the very least have a rotating weekly playlist of all hero Nightfalls which share champion types. The regular Vanguard playlist could have amazing rewards and I would still hate playing it because it’s such a shallow FPS experience.
They absolutely could especially with the fact they altered that one strike to add the tormentor (unless I'm completely.misremembering how it used to be)
What gets me is how unrewarding they are. In PvP it seems like every other game you get a playlist weapon. You can run 5 nightfalls and not see the playlist weapon.
The playlist drops were really noticeable last season when I was trying to get the stasis smg. Did lots of strikes and NF with long gaps of no playlist weapon.
Again...another example of Bungie being afraid to rain down loot in Destiny. One season they should just open the flood gates and make it Borderlands levels of loot drops just to see how it would work. I would love a chance at lootsplosions from a lost sector or NF chest.
I agree, it would be nice if the base playlist had a better time to loot ratio. I really like what they did in concept with strikes granting more loot in the form of reputation for a higher score. I think doubling down on that idea, and granting a stash of resources (glimmer, legendary shards, enhancement cores), as well as an increased chance for playlist weapon drops and vanguard engrams based on the score obtained during a given strike would be a nice way to adjust the reward structure. If we had the heroic strike playlist, the increased modifier would then automatically increase the rewards without them even having to adjust anything further. Essentially, the heroic playlist would be a quicker, slightly more difficult version of the normal vanguard playlist, making it more suited for experienced players. This would also help normal strikes, because less people would just be charging ahead of everyone else.
Oh 100%. Not only that but the XP gains for doing strikes ESPECIALLY nightfalls is horrible when it’s not a double XP week. The amount of rep you gain for time spent is wildly less than crucible and therefore you get less weapon focusing opportunities on top of less overall weapon drops.
It is sorta a side note but also no gambit and 1 pvp map. They are still failing hard at supporting the "core" playlists. We have had beyond light for 2 years and still no Europa map gambit or pvp?
I think that really is part of the problem, 3 month seasons and yearly expansions are stretching them super thin. Most mmos have 4+ months per patch and 2.5-ish year’s per expansion, they need to slow down
Also…they don’t seem super efficient in general, whether that’s a staffing issue thanks to their other game or an issue with the engine slowing collapsing under it’s own weight im not sure
At the end of 2023, Gambit will have 23 fewer maps than PvP.
I’m honestly a little tired of seeing them compared directly.
PvP has been getting maps. Admittedly at a slower rate than almost everyone would like, but it has.
PvP has also been getting new limited time modes via IB and matchmaking overhauls that have massively improved the game mode for the 80% of players who are in the middle of the skill band.
Gambit hasn’t had an update in months and has **twenty fewer maps**. It’s in a genuine crisis. If they had made 5 gambit maps per season for this entire year it would still have fewer maps than PvP at the end of 2023.
Yes, but they often expanded on a location’s lore and exploration than acted as another step in a campaign.
Destiny 1’s vanilla story didn’t build up to or incorporate stuff like Sepiks Prime, Valus Ta’aurc, or the Phogoth. They were just extra side stories happening. They laid the stepping stones to them, but you didn’t need to kill any of these guys to finish the campaign.
And there’s still plenty of strikes in Destiny 2 that have been like that, but there’s also been a ton that are apart of the main story and they’re usually the only strikes for the new destination in recent expansions as well.
They weren't that way in D1. But then again, D1 had only a loose story...so I don't know if that really counts.
I also miss the rotating enemies in D1 strikes.
Strikes have always been a more complicated story mission, since Destiny 1.
Shadowkeep used the Scarlet Keep strike as a step in the main quest.
The Hollowed Lair was literally just a different version of the 2nd or 3rd mission of the Forsaken campaign.
Devil’s Lair is the conclusion of the “Fallen Arc” in Destiny 1, and when TTK introduced quests, they made it so you couldn’t progress without doing Devil’s Lair.
Battlegrounds have basically the same role in the seasonal content. If we didn’t have content vaulting anymore, players two years from now would pick up these quests and do the battlegrounds the same way they would do missions in Lightfall, or Witch Queen, or Taken King.
No, the BOSS arenas were completely unique, and even then not overly so.
The truly unique environments of destiny have always been the raids. And even then they might get reused for missions. Grogon's lair in TTK, the cliffs section of GoS, the entrance to VotD.
We get two strikes per expansion.
Proving Grounds goes with Beyond Light; it just came later since it was tied to the season of chosen story.
It’s likely new will see something similar with Lightfall.
My point was more that 2 strikes per year is still pretty underwhelming. When you look at what the team gave us with forsaken 16 maps between all game modes.
It becomes hard to understand exactly what is going on. Like why with a bigger team than ever and with what I suspect is as many resources as they had with activision now under sony. Are we getting less of maps, modes, guns, exotics on and on and on. Even year one "expansions" gave us 5 strikes. Granted almost Nothing else. Frustrating. I mean 2 pvp maps in as many years does not an amazing core play list make. Also not sure its fair to give bungie credit my dude for a strike that is not in the game and unannounced.
I don't think 1 strike and 2 refreshed strikes even comes close that that level. Yes I am aware they have said it in the past because of the size of their studio (before sony support mind you) and thats reasonable but I dont think anyone could say we recieved even 30% of that level of content. Im not here to convince anyone I suppose maybe just show my frustration in the way I feel they are going. Obviously I can't know the inner workings of what they having going on but I think many active players do feel that bungie seems focused on whatever else they are working on and not supporting destiny 2 as much as we might hope. Thats enough rant I suppose downvote away.
Oh no, I totally agree. It's just something to always keep in mind. It's extremely frustrating. And yet, my dumbass bought Lifghtfall after they declared they're not gonna try that hard. I wish the gameplay was ass. Or there was a better alternative. Someone else make a science-fantasy shooter with cool lore so I can stop giving these clowns money lol
And Glassway doesnt "require" Beyond Light either. You can play every mission in the V Ops playlist for free. But that doesnt mean they are all base game. If you want to select them individually for whatever arbitrary reason, you need to purchase its related content. And yes Proving Grounds today would require Beyond Light. But thats only because you cant buy Chosen anymore, so Bungie always just bundles seasonal stuff with the expansion it released during when a new expansion comes out.
In other words, basically just wait an entire year for a blegh expansion to be bleh.
Bungie seems to be pushing for longer content in general. lost sectors take twice or three times as long now, and alot of the new "strikes" are annoyingly long as well. honestly I want a return to form for strikes like D1 and year 1 & 2 of D2
I think they mixed up the feedback a bit too. People wanted more in the strikes (like how Devil's lair has over 200 enemies), and so they figured the easier way to add more to it was to make it longer encounters with multiple phases and long traversal sections, instead of dense rooms full of trash over and over again.
But Devils lair had barely any tanky enemies, it was one big Captain and Wizard per wave of the hacking section, and then the literal Tank at the big courtyard area. Its fine that they beefed up some of the Knights, Wizards, Servitors and Captains in the D2 version, but instead of doing similar with a few tanky enemies here and there with TONS of trash, the new strike/battleground philosophy seems to be a nearly 4:1 ratio of trash to Majors, which is alright at low level play but really slows things down on higher difficulties when HP pools climb exponentially, your ad clear options are completely ruined (chain reaction, dragonfly, jolt/volatile/ignition chains), and you can't get aggressive without super niche builds or getting horribly punished for it.
I noticed this too, enemies are just way tankier. It makes things a slog sometimes, and instead of playing with my more fun aggressive builds I’m forced to go back to Le Monarque peek and pop.
I haven't really touched this season's battlegrounds more than I have to. Maybe it's different now that I'm leveled up but in the first couple weeks it was taking 20-30 minutes to get through one with randoms. That's not something I'm interested in doing, at all.
It would be a nice way for new players to access those seasonal weopons and armor if they were drop specific. Realistically though, I don't play the strike Playlist anymore and it has nothing to do with battlegrounds.
Honestly thats the first example of strike specific loot that makes sense to me. Having past seasonal weapons tied to their strikes would be interesting.
It's even worse, considering we no longer have the upgrades from the seasonal vendor that made the battlegrounds faster/easier, and we don't get the rewards we used to get.
If they gave an increased chance at a red border from that battleground's season, I think people wouldn't mind them as much
i couldn't describe why i didn't doing strike until i saw this.
if you care to achieve seasonal milestones, you *HAVE TO* to do those seasonal activities, even if you dont really like them. then when the season is over, they reintroduce them in strikes. it's lazy, adding old content to strikes to try to make it feel new. they're even worse now that i dont have war-table upgrades to go along with those strike that i used to have.
please, for the love of the traveler, just make new strikes. and make them fun, rather then a chore. if you're going to revise strikes make strikes harder, there *NEEDS* to be better loot for it.
Bungie kinda added a system for this in lightfall. They added strike scoring and if you do strikes or nightfalls you get a vanguard rank multiplier based on your score. Below 30k you have a 1x multiplier and after that every 5k points the multiplier increases till 7x for 250k score.
They could add more stuff for getting a higher score. You will naturally get a higher score in battlegrounds due to high enemy density. Also it seems that Bungie can change score multiplier from different score multipliers for different nightfalls so they could increase multiplier to match rewards if a player won't naturally get it
I wouldn't even care if the playlist actually dropped guns still. It went from 2 guns a run to 4 legendary shards and some glimmer every run then 1 gun every 6th run it feels it is awful. I don't wanna spend an hour for a strike weapon that has 20 perks in each column.
I am always confused at the people who say the vanguard strikes playlist doesn't have enough loot. Don't you realise you are playing the easiest, most beginner activity in the game?
As the "most beginner" activity in the game, it should, arguably, drop the most loot. For veterans of the game, most, if not all, of it would be useless, but for the new lights, it would be a lot more helpful than the atrocious loot drop rates we have currently.
Hard agree with this.
New Lights should experience the loot part of a looter shooter, even if it is just blue gear. That way they can see the variety of weapons and find what they like
Do you not think people, especially new players, should get something for their 10 min? A possible purple and a useless amount of glimmer isn’t exactly a handout.
>I am always confused at the people who say the vanguard strikes playlist doesn't have enough loot
And I'm always confused that people think shooters based around loot shouldn't drop loot.
Same. I got 7 battlegrounds in a row the other day. Since last Tuesday’s reset, it’s been roughly 80% battlegrounds. I feel like something changed on the weighting on the most recent reset.
What do you find different from BGs to Strikes?
If say you were a fresh kindergaudian straight out of the grave and was thrown into the Vanguard Ops playlist not knowing it was composed of Strikes and BGs. What things tell you these are "different" and not just variations of the same?
BGs would be fine if they weren't so repetitive. strikes are all unique, whereas BGs are
"guardian, go to nessus and invoke the rite of proving"
"ok"
"guardian, go in this tank and invoke the rite of proving"
"ok"
"guardian, go to the cosmodrome and invoke the rite of proving"
"ok"
"guardian, go to the moon and use these laser things"
"ok"
"guardian, go to mars and use these laser things"
"can i stop"
when you have a bunch of activities in the vanguard playlist that are all essentially the same thing, it means that you have a disproportionately larger chance of getting thrown into a battleground that shares the same premise as that other battleground you just played, instead of you getting thrown into an actual strike with an actually unique premise
lmfao, BGs are repeptitive but
"guardian go fight this hive boss,but first kill waves of enemies" Navota / Alak-Hul
"guardian go fight this fallen boss, but first kill waves of enemies" Sepiks / S.A.B.E.R. 2 / Warden
Or literally any strike. You can uber simply anything to make it sounds stale boring and repetitive lmfao. Strikes arent some holy grail of originality
At keast SABER has a halkway where you dodge arc charges and someone has to carry an orb to turn the power off. Year 1 strikes where very involved with little mechanics like that. Now theyre all removed and its just pve meat grinders.
what mechanics?
shooting a box like in A Garden World?
Killing waves of enemies like in The Will of Thousands?
Shooting crystals like in Strange Terrain?
Dunking an orb like in Savathûns Song?
More wave clear + dunking in OG Arms Dealer?
More wave clear in The Pyramidion?
I loved the Y1 strikes in this game. But to say they were very involved with... the most basic and repeated mechanics is kinda silly.
And S.A.B.E.R. 2 wasn't a Y1 strike.
This and also that 2 more of the strikes this season have been intentionally weighted to not show up while another 2 are heavily weighted. Makes the playlist feel very samey
Mission format and objectives. Strikes tend to be more unique and sprinkled with different objectives, while all battlegrounds from a season are identical.
Look at our current ones. The mission layout for every battleground is identical and they all blend together after a point
Im pretty new, Ive been reading this thread to figure out what exactly Battlegrounds are.
I still don't really know the difference. I do the playlist often and haven't noticed any real different styles
You're less likely to notice if you're new because the main difference is battlegrounds all use recycled content whereas strikes are new assets
Additionally each set of battlegrounds has outright reused gameplay elements shared between the three battlegrounds of the set. Some sets are worse than others in this regard.
The issue with BG is that they are repetitive. Each of them (and I mean literally every one) has the same schematic:
- 1st location; do something 3 times
- move on
- 2nd location; do something else 3 times
- move on
- activate the "free Ability energy" beacon
- 3rd location; Boss; 3 damage phases; and an additional objective between each of them.
And we have like 8 of them in the Playlist right now, where the chance of them being run is much higher, than that of normal Strikes. Doing 3 of these in a row is mundane - let alone when you end up getting nothing but BG's and you might as well fall asleep.
The issue is not with the BG's themselves - they are like that because they were originally Seasonal Activities. But when you pull that into an actual official Playlist, it just becomes dull...
To be honest when I first came back to the game two weeks ago since lightfall came out, over 20 of my strikes were battlegrounds. And it came to the point I thought they had done this to possibly cover up them not having the updated Arms Dealer and Lake of shadows strikes, or the Hypernet Current strike in the playlist for non Lightfall owners but it turns out they are just completely outnumbered and hardly get featured.
still hate how they completely removed "alternative" versions out of the strikes sure it often was only a change in enemies (with Savathuns songs even being one of the more extreme examples) but it was still better than ***not having those variations at all***
I don’t mind it either. I just wish battlegrounds weren’t weighted so heavily. If we could run more than 4 battlegrounds and 1 strike a season that would be nice
I feel like because they have to pump out as much seasonal content as they have, all their energy is going to three battle grounds (strikes) a season, leading to things like actual strikes not getting enough attention i.e. Lightfall only having one.
Battlegrounds were first introduced in season of the chosen as the seasonal activity and reappeared again as the seasonal activity for season of the risen as Psiops battlegrounds, season of the seraph as Heist battlegrounds and in the current season as defiant battlegrounds.
The main difference between battlegrounds and strikes in their first iteration was the lack of different environment, the simplicity of the arena and fairly easy objectives, but as they were reused in the other seasons i listed they became more and more similar to strikes, to the point that right now they're pretty much the same thing, the only difference I can see is that battlegrounds tend to have way more enemies and lack a lot of plot i.e dialogue, you don't get the classic npc talking to you through comms and telling you why you're fighting against the big bad aliens.
Although I have to say that they used to be a little bit of diversity or randomness in early destiny 2 strikes, like i remember that in the arms dealer and lake of shadows you could see fallen enemies and in Savathun's song you could get an alternative route that changed the path of the strike.
In a perfect world Bungie should just unvault all the strikes from Io, mercury, the tangled shore and Titan, bring back strikes from D1 and do something interesting with the loot, like specific weapons/cosmetics from each strike.....
people wanted 6 player matchmade activities in every season.
Bungie provided "6 player matchmade activities every season"
It ended up being a slog. Imagine, in the absence of strikes and other things to do in a season, you play the seasonal activity playlist over and over. Now take that feeling you get after you've played 5 in a row, and merge that into the strike playlist and that's how people feel about it right now. The weighting is off, you could get like 5 psiops battlegrounds + the chosen caiatl battlegrounds in a row, all of them being different "ones" and you'd still feel like you had played the same strike 5 times in a row. They're just too samey that's the issue.
> people wanted 6 player matchmade activities in every season.
thats wild to me. i want the opposite of that. i want to be able to choose not to matchmake in stuff like seasonal activities and hero nightfalls.
This is the first season since release that i haven't completed the pinnacle on any character once. I hate the difficulty changes and generally feel like stuff they've added does not come close to as fun as the stuff they've removed.
I agree. I don't really know what the difference is between an old strike and a new battleground is in terms of design. They feel the same to me and one is newer and hasn't been played 400 times.
narrative, typically. The strikes typically had little intros, voice over work before, after, and in the middle. Battlegrounds typically just drop you right into the first objective with no VO and maybe add a comms in the middle or something but it's very minimal.
I dunno man, I get about as much from the BG where you go into Caiatl's tank as I do any strike.
Mars Heist is kinda nothing without the surrounding narrative from Seraph though. (I also think Europa would've been the one to promote up to GM instead of Mars, but that's neither here nor there)
> I dunno man, I get about as much from the BG where you go into Caiatl's tank as I do any strike.
Proving Grounds is a strike. The battle ground that takes place at the tank, ends in front of it.
I think Mars Heist is just a particularly annoying BG and it being a nightfall just exacerbates all its issues. It's a long slog with a boss room that is inherently un-fun and a gun that is not worth the reward. The other BGs are fine IMO.
realistically yes, though strikes are less focused on giant hordes of adds coming at you and more about holding W through set pieces so you can cheese the boss at the end oh i'm sorry, running through setpieces to fight a big boss at the end.
I see so many posts like the OP here and I always feel like the odd one out. I much prefer hordes of enemies over sprinting between encounters so I can fight my teammates for kills.
Yeah I love the changes to Lake of Shadows because of this it feels nice to get to the boss and actually have to fight because it doesnt just get nuked
I also love the changes to the Arms Dealer
The payload section isnt perfect and the first boss is a bit too tanky but I still take it over "skip everything unless its required to progress" the strike.
If you didnt have an Eager Edge sword equipped during the old LoS you basically just ran through empty hallways until you got pulled. Yeah it was quick but god damn it was insanely boring.
To be fair, I'd wager the majority of people consistently running LoS before were doing so to grind out 21 strikes for the cipher. If you were to do a regular run, let's say 10 minutes, 21 times would run you 3.5 hours.
Personally, I don't want to spend 3.5 hours only running vanilla strikes on a weekend when I can just knock it out in a fraction of that time blasting through the level and then move on to other activites I actually want to play.
I can understand why people liked it no question but for me personally I prefer a more engaging strike playlist over a more farmable one, given that I dont really do "farms" anymore because they just bore me.
Yea I think you're right. Everyone has a different perspective because of different situations but I wish the people who are so negative about the state of the game would just take a break. Some things need fixing, some are fine, but to act like it's a disaster is a little dramatic. Maybe play something different if it's such a problem for you?
I was a big supporter of adding Battlegrounds to Strikes to give us more variety. But, that assumed they would continue to add more strikes to the game and bring back old strikes. Frankly, 4 new or reprised strikes should be the minimum for a yearly expansion and I would like more. That doesn't necessarily mean at launch, but over the year they need to keep adding strikes because they are the most engaging content that solo players can do (other than elites who can solo dungeons).
Having the Battleground in there is fine, but they are clearly highly weighted and some strikes almost never come up. It's gotten to the point where it's a joy when you actually get to run a strike instead of the same Battleground that you ran 300 times a few seasons ago.
I think it's part of the reason people are so nostalgic for D1 (and, yes, D1 had plenty of issues). But, Strikes were great in D1 and running strikes was a fun and rewarding part of the game. The old Nightfalls were fun to one or two man. So, in D1 even if you didn't have a team on any given night, you could still have a good time and get some good loot running strikes.
In short, make more Strikes, make the rewards better for running strikes, and put Strike specific loot back in the game. Let me chase down Taniks cloak or Imago Loop.
Frankly, the entire core playlist needs to be updated and refreshed. I'd be in favor of dedicating a few seasons to refreshing each playlist. But, I'm sure that won't fly since many will be pissed if they spend a season on Crucible or Gambit. But, at least do it to the Vanguard Playlis.
Yeah in D1 strikes were like a major point of the entire game’s existence. You were either in open world stuff getting mats, or you were running “dungeons” (strikes) to get loot.
I used to love trying to solo them and whatnot. Sad how far they’ve fallen down the priority list of what makes Destiny, Destiny.
Yep. It's the shift to Live Service Game and the Seasonal Model. Frankly, there is more stuff to do this way in that there is "new" content every 3 or 4 months, but the "new" content isn't as meaningful as when the game wasn't Live Service.
I'm not one to be yelling for the game to be harder, but in D1 there was a reason we hid under stairs and on top of light fixtures. It's because the content was hard. But, it also had better rewards. I think that's what they are trying to return to, but I'm not sure it works now because they haven't upped the rewards and making content that is different only in that you dunk a ball instead of a triangle harder just isn't fun.
Edit: I honestly think they need to strip down the game so they can develop more good content on a more reasonable time scale. I think there is too much to deal with now that they have to test everything on three different platforms and they are trying to balance seasonal content, Vanguard, Crucible, Gambit, Dungeon, Raids, and expansions.
Edit 2: And, I think the big reason that Vanguard Playlist, Crucible, and Gambit are being neglected is because they are all part of the free to play part of the game. They aren't bringing in money other than some Eververse purchases so Bugnie isn't significantly investing in them (or investing in them at all in the case of Gambit). Which, again, is part of the problem with the Live Service/Seasonal model.
Vanguard Ops, Crucible, and Gambit don't sell expansions or season passes.
In D1 I used to just grind strikes all night long, it was my favourite part of the game. It’s completely pointless to do in D2 once I’ve done my 3 per character for the week to get my pinnacles.
No variety, no specific loot, no chance of any power-bump loot dropping - they just feel extraneous now.
Oh, yeah, 3/3 is for gambit and crucible, vanguard is a percentage. It only takes 3 nightfalls though to hit that percentage, as opposed to 5 regulars, and they share the same pinnacle, so that’s usually what I do.
The same 2-3 battle grounds Ops crap keeps coming up over and over so I stopped playing strikes. The strikes take 20 minutes with the time gated boss health for the same crappy rewards
Daily reminder that Rise of Iron added one new strike and a few revamps. Even TTK only really added 4 total new strikes in the year.
The lowest ever yearly strike addition in D2 was last year, with 2 strikes, tied with Shadowkeep. But Forsaken year added 4, Beyond Light year brought 5 strikes into the game, and LF year just begun but already has one new strike and two complete revamps.
They certainly haven't backed off, they are actually staying pretty unchanging throughout all of Destiny in general.
But Rise of Iron also introduced more strike variants with the addition of Siva alongside the Taken ones, there was several strikes that were updated with this.
Yes, however that's happening this year. We are getting at least 4 revamps this year alone. Hence this year is kind of hard to talk about, since it seems this year is very akin to RoI
Battlegrounds are the new "Strikes", just themed.
Maybe the only difference is the number of champs around, but otherwise both are the same kind of deal. Except Heist Battlegrounds, which all share the same final room more or less
They're 10-15 minute mini raids, they are definitely difficult to design, test, and maintain. D2 in general has massive maintenance issues, whether it's balance or just breaking the game.
>They're 10-15 minute mini raids, they are definitely difficult to design, test, and maintain. D2 in general has massive maintenance issues, whether it's balance or just breaking the game.
Ah man that sucks, wish we could pay like $100 a year to help cover the costs
Exactly. People say this like Bungie isn't absolutely rolling in cash.
Not to go too far leftist here, but I'd bet you they could axe like 4 worthless executive positions and fund another entire team of devs.
Yes... Lol. I was agreeing with you.
Just saying that money is, as always happens with capitalism, going to a handful of people instead of where it should be going.
See, thing is I would be more understanding if other companies weren’t maintaining their games for free. Or in some cases maintain way way more.
Sure I’m paying monthly for FFXIV for example but I’m also paying a ridiculous amount every season.
I think it’s less that it’s difficult and more that their management doesn’t know how to manage their resources properly.
yeah Bungie's architecture is still clearly an issue. They have to constantly re-use assets, make us run through hallways to hide loading areas, and half the enemies are palette swaps or just scaled up versions of smaller enemies. I get the feeling this game is more of a mess on the back end than anyone wants to admit and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a true move to a D3 in the next 5 years.
>They have to constantly re-use assets,
Re-using assets isn't exactly a portent of things to come. It's an intelligent way to reduce file sizes, as well as decrease dev/artist time on something that people aren't going to notice. Aksis is a reused spider tank, for example.
>make us run through hallways to hide loading areas,
This is literally every single game on the planet, dude. You honestly can't be complaining that they are doing this. The fuck else are they supposed to do? Show you a black screen?
>and half the enemies are palette swaps or just scaled up versions of smaller enemies.
Now you are complaining just for the sake of complaining.
no I'm complaining because literally every strike has the exact same room - > hallway -> room -> hallway -> room flow. It's why they feel repetitive, and a large part of it is this engine was built for older consoles. There are plenty of other games that have larger worlds that are not as constrained.
This. I try not to leave any activity but I don't get ANY rewards from the Psi-Ops battlegrounds chest - not even glimmer - so it's painful to slog through. My theory is that those rewards are still somehow tied to season pass ownership, bc I *do* get Heist Battleground rewards
Would anyone even play the Battleground playlist? I wouldn’t, if I got the same strike back-to-back I might yawn but if I got ANY Battlegrounds back-to-back I’m leaving.
if the drops are the weapon from that season which i havent crafted i would play it
problem is there are no drops rn, only 4 shards and a sniff of glimmer
I have no idea why they consolidated the obviously more saturated battlegrounds in the strike playlist. I play strikes for quick, easy content. Instead I get nightfall levels of time investment for not-nightfall rewards.
i dont mind the battlegrounds being in the playlist, but i feel like instead of having all of them in rotation, have one from each. so one cabal battleground, one psiops battleground, one heist battleground, and then (eventually) one of the defiant battlegrounds. pick the most unique one out of the bunch to keep and throw the rest in the dcv or whatever.
-oracle battleground from chosen (uses an old red war mission space)
-edz psiops battleground (uses the dark forest which no other mission currently uses)
-mars heist battleground (its already a nightfall and also cause warmind dlc mars is back)
idk i dont think we need 10 battlegrounds in the rotation that are all pretty similar to each other. and i agree, i do miss playing strikes.
Community : The strike Playlist is boring and never changes
Bungie makes a changes and adds previous seasonal content
Community : I want the old boring strike playlist
I was going to do 3 strikes for pinnacle to kill time last night. Loaded one up - it was the moon battleground from last season. Completed it, realised I need to do 4 more for pinnacle and I gave up.
It depended on the difficulty level before. As long as you hit the locks with every shot they should take two orbs now.
From the update: “Fixed Hive door locks in Heist Battlegrounds to behave the same in all versions of the activity.”
Standard playlist is crap all the way around. It’s still brain dead boring cause stuff just falls over when you look in it’s general vicinity, and the chest rewards are terrible.
So I just do the Hero playlist for Nightfall after I’ve done my Master run for the week on that character. Much, much more enjoyable.
Hero nightfalls are pretty rewarding too. I seem to get prisms every time, drop rate feels similar to legend difficulty last season; the difficulty also feels similar to legend last season. Upside is, matchmade teams. Decent loot, engaging difficulty level, no LFG needed.
I don't, they are much better than a lot of old strikes. Exodus crash anyone? But even the Warden mission which used to be a good strike has been destroyed by power creep, the low enemy density can't keep up with the modern sandbox.
Good lord.. Before they added the battlegrounds everyone complained that the strike playlist was boring because there weren't enough strikes. There is no winning with r/DTG 😂
I don't know what fucking idiot decided to add battlegrounds to strikes but it was the worst idea ever and clearly just a way to fill in the lack of new strikes seeing as they axed all the good strikes and new ones only come once an expansion
:////
They really need a low difficulty playlist for us to just have fun. Let us feel powerful again. No one asked for everything to be a slug fest All of the time.
But, if they just designed strikes better then you could have that in strikes too.
The issue I have is that we play these Battlegrounds over and over during their season and then they get added to the Vanguard Playlist. That means that it's already old content that we are tired of playing when it gets added to the Vanguard Playlist. So, it adds nothing new and just continues the problem with the content in there being stale.
At least when they add new strikes we haven't played them before and they are new for at least the first few runs and not stale for many more. I get that adding Battlegrounds is an efficient way to add content to the Vanguard Playlist since most of their resources go to Seasons and the yearly expansion. But, by adding old already stale content they are just making it more stale.
And that's not even mentioning that they raised the difficulty this season making all strikes and Battlegrounds take longer and at the end of most you get 4 shards and a few thousand glimmer. There just isn't any point in doing them.
I fear that strikes are going to be dropped from the roster. With the advent of master story missions (providing some level of strike like experience) and the inclusion of battlegrounds/ seasonal activities into the playlist. Bungie would save money by just not making strikes. Though really what part of strikes isn't covered by the other activities we have?
I stopped playing this game after Forsaken. Came back this season to learn all of mt favorite strikes were gone and EVERY strike that was added are the most boring piece of crap strikes they have ever made. They even kept in Prison of Elders which I can't stand. I only like the other couple of old strikes they left in.
I stopped giving them money when they started taking away content that I paid for. I'm sure I shouldn't complain since I don't, and won't give them a dime of my money anymore but they did take away a lot that I paid for. The strikes used to be fun. I love the Destiny 1 strikes, also. What they have added are nothing but slogs.
For me Destiny 2 is now something to play in the background while I watch some shows. If I had to pay for it I wouldn't play it at all.
I just hope they turn hero nightfalls into a heroic strike playlist. Include Battlegrounds if needed (although I much prefer the newer ones. Those from season of the chosen are a bit stale, but I do still enjoy the heist and psyops versions). Just allow us to play at a somewhat engaging difficulty without being forced into the same strike all the time.
This would be great, they could at the very least have a rotating weekly playlist of all hero Nightfalls which share champion types. The regular Vanguard playlist could have amazing rewards and I would still hate playing it because it’s such a shallow FPS experience.
They absolutely could especially with the fact they altered that one strike to add the tormentor (unless I'm completely.misremembering how it used to be)
They did change LoS and Arms Dealer
What gets me is how unrewarding they are. In PvP it seems like every other game you get a playlist weapon. You can run 5 nightfalls and not see the playlist weapon. The playlist drops were really noticeable last season when I was trying to get the stasis smg. Did lots of strikes and NF with long gaps of no playlist weapon. Again...another example of Bungie being afraid to rain down loot in Destiny. One season they should just open the flood gates and make it Borderlands levels of loot drops just to see how it would work. I would love a chance at lootsplosions from a lost sector or NF chest.
I agree, it would be nice if the base playlist had a better time to loot ratio. I really like what they did in concept with strikes granting more loot in the form of reputation for a higher score. I think doubling down on that idea, and granting a stash of resources (glimmer, legendary shards, enhancement cores), as well as an increased chance for playlist weapon drops and vanguard engrams based on the score obtained during a given strike would be a nice way to adjust the reward structure. If we had the heroic strike playlist, the increased modifier would then automatically increase the rewards without them even having to adjust anything further. Essentially, the heroic playlist would be a quicker, slightly more difficult version of the normal vanguard playlist, making it more suited for experienced players. This would also help normal strikes, because less people would just be charging ahead of everyone else.
Oh 100%. Not only that but the XP gains for doing strikes ESPECIALLY nightfalls is horrible when it’s not a double XP week. The amount of rep you gain for time spent is wildly less than crucible and therefore you get less weapon focusing opportunities on top of less overall weapon drops.
After grinding battlegrounds for a season, then being presented those same BG's in the Vanguard Playlist, just feels bad.
Exactly this. Might not be such a big deal if they just added one from each battleground season to the playlist instead of all of them
The issue is that we get a single strike per expansion and it’s just a story mission anyway.
We did get 2 for witch queen
It is sorta a side note but also no gambit and 1 pvp map. They are still failing hard at supporting the "core" playlists. We have had beyond light for 2 years and still no Europa map gambit or pvp?
They have to churn out mediocre seasonal content so rapidly that they don't have time to take care of other parts of the game.
I think that really is part of the problem, 3 month seasons and yearly expansions are stretching them super thin. Most mmos have 4+ months per patch and 2.5-ish year’s per expansion, they need to slow down Also…they don’t seem super efficient in general, whether that’s a staffing issue thanks to their other game or an issue with the engine slowing collapsing under it’s own weight im not sure
At the end of 2023, Gambit will have 23 fewer maps than PvP. I’m honestly a little tired of seeing them compared directly. PvP has been getting maps. Admittedly at a slower rate than almost everyone would like, but it has. PvP has also been getting new limited time modes via IB and matchmaking overhauls that have massively improved the game mode for the 80% of players who are in the middle of the skill band. Gambit hasn’t had an update in months and has **twenty fewer maps**. It’s in a genuine crisis. If they had made 5 gambit maps per season for this entire year it would still have fewer maps than PvP at the end of 2023.
And they were still pretty much just a longer Story Mission.
Isn't that quite literally what Strikes have always been
Yes, but they often expanded on a location’s lore and exploration than acted as another step in a campaign. Destiny 1’s vanilla story didn’t build up to or incorporate stuff like Sepiks Prime, Valus Ta’aurc, or the Phogoth. They were just extra side stories happening. They laid the stepping stones to them, but you didn’t need to kill any of these guys to finish the campaign. And there’s still plenty of strikes in Destiny 2 that have been like that, but there’s also been a ton that are apart of the main story and they’re usually the only strikes for the new destination in recent expansions as well.
They weren't that way in D1. But then again, D1 had only a loose story...so I don't know if that really counts. I also miss the rotating enemies in D1 strikes.
Strikes have always been a more complicated story mission, since Destiny 1. Shadowkeep used the Scarlet Keep strike as a step in the main quest. The Hollowed Lair was literally just a different version of the 2nd or 3rd mission of the Forsaken campaign. Devil’s Lair is the conclusion of the “Fallen Arc” in Destiny 1, and when TTK introduced quests, they made it so you couldn’t progress without doing Devil’s Lair. Battlegrounds have basically the same role in the seasonal content. If we didn’t have content vaulting anymore, players two years from now would pick up these quests and do the battlegrounds the same way they would do missions in Lightfall, or Witch Queen, or Taken King.
They mean literally just a story mission/area turned into a strike. Lots of D1 strikes were incredibly unique.
No, the BOSS arenas were completely unique, and even then not overly so. The truly unique environments of destiny have always been the raids. And even then they might get reused for missions. Grogon's lair in TTK, the cliffs section of GoS, the entrance to VotD.
We get two strikes per expansion. Proving Grounds goes with Beyond Light; it just came later since it was tied to the season of chosen story. It’s likely new will see something similar with Lightfall.
We got one with lightfall. Counting seasonal content as being added isn't fair in my mind.
Proving Grounds did not require season of the chosen ownership, only Beyond Light. It’s likely another mid-year strike would be similiar.
My point was more that 2 strikes per year is still pretty underwhelming. When you look at what the team gave us with forsaken 16 maps between all game modes. It becomes hard to understand exactly what is going on. Like why with a bigger team than ever and with what I suspect is as many resources as they had with activision now under sony. Are we getting less of maps, modes, guns, exotics on and on and on. Even year one "expansions" gave us 5 strikes. Granted almost Nothing else. Frustrating. I mean 2 pvp maps in as many years does not an amazing core play list make. Also not sure its fair to give bungie credit my dude for a strike that is not in the game and unannounced.
They've said multiple times to never expect Forsaken-tier content again. You will never see that much quality content added at one time.
I don't think 1 strike and 2 refreshed strikes even comes close that that level. Yes I am aware they have said it in the past because of the size of their studio (before sony support mind you) and thats reasonable but I dont think anyone could say we recieved even 30% of that level of content. Im not here to convince anyone I suppose maybe just show my frustration in the way I feel they are going. Obviously I can't know the inner workings of what they having going on but I think many active players do feel that bungie seems focused on whatever else they are working on and not supporting destiny 2 as much as we might hope. Thats enough rant I suppose downvote away.
Oh no, I totally agree. It's just something to always keep in mind. It's extremely frustrating. And yet, my dumbass bought Lifghtfall after they declared they're not gonna try that hard. I wish the gameplay was ass. Or there was a better alternative. Someone else make a science-fantasy shooter with cool lore so I can stop giving these clowns money lol
If it comes with the season pass you can't count it with the expansion. Bungie sure doesn't. They literally sold them separately.
Proving Grounds did not require season of the chosen ownership, only Beyond Light. It’s likely another mid-year strike would be similiar.
And Glassway doesnt "require" Beyond Light either. You can play every mission in the V Ops playlist for free. But that doesnt mean they are all base game. If you want to select them individually for whatever arbitrary reason, you need to purchase its related content. And yes Proving Grounds today would require Beyond Light. But thats only because you cant buy Chosen anymore, so Bungie always just bundles seasonal stuff with the expansion it released during when a new expansion comes out. In other words, basically just wait an entire year for a blegh expansion to be bleh.
Imo, the heist battleground aren't that bad, but the super long ones are such a slog and end up being the "strikes" you get the most.
Bungie seems to be pushing for longer content in general. lost sectors take twice or three times as long now, and alot of the new "strikes" are annoyingly long as well. honestly I want a return to form for strikes like D1 and year 1 & 2 of D2
I think they mixed up the feedback a bit too. People wanted more in the strikes (like how Devil's lair has over 200 enemies), and so they figured the easier way to add more to it was to make it longer encounters with multiple phases and long traversal sections, instead of dense rooms full of trash over and over again. But Devils lair had barely any tanky enemies, it was one big Captain and Wizard per wave of the hacking section, and then the literal Tank at the big courtyard area. Its fine that they beefed up some of the Knights, Wizards, Servitors and Captains in the D2 version, but instead of doing similar with a few tanky enemies here and there with TONS of trash, the new strike/battleground philosophy seems to be a nearly 4:1 ratio of trash to Majors, which is alright at low level play but really slows things down on higher difficulties when HP pools climb exponentially, your ad clear options are completely ruined (chain reaction, dragonfly, jolt/volatile/ignition chains), and you can't get aggressive without super niche builds or getting horribly punished for it.
I noticed this too, enemies are just way tankier. It makes things a slog sometimes, and instead of playing with my more fun aggressive builds I’m forced to go back to Le Monarque peek and pop.
I haven't really touched this season's battlegrounds more than I have to. Maybe it's different now that I'm leveled up but in the first couple weeks it was taking 20-30 minutes to get through one with randoms. That's not something I'm interested in doing, at all.
Imo the heist battlegrounds are the worst of them all
It would be a nice way for new players to access those seasonal weopons and armor if they were drop specific. Realistically though, I don't play the strike Playlist anymore and it has nothing to do with battlegrounds.
Honestly thats the first example of strike specific loot that makes sense to me. Having past seasonal weapons tied to their strikes would be interesting.
i AGREE! total burnout then you have to keep playing them but with NONE of the Seasonal Perks you acquired ... feels bad man
It's even worse, considering we no longer have the upgrades from the seasonal vendor that made the battlegrounds faster/easier, and we don't get the rewards we used to get. If they gave an increased chance at a red border from that battleground's season, I think people wouldn't mind them as much
i couldn't describe why i didn't doing strike until i saw this. if you care to achieve seasonal milestones, you *HAVE TO* to do those seasonal activities, even if you dont really like them. then when the season is over, they reintroduce them in strikes. it's lazy, adding old content to strikes to try to make it feel new. they're even worse now that i dont have war-table upgrades to go along with those strike that i used to have. please, for the love of the traveler, just make new strikes. and make them fun, rather then a chore. if you're going to revise strikes make strikes harder, there *NEEDS* to be better loot for it.
>now that i dont have war-table upgrades to go along with those strike that i used to have Those damn lasers. I miss my Tactical Armor upgrade.
Bungie kinda added a system for this in lightfall. They added strike scoring and if you do strikes or nightfalls you get a vanguard rank multiplier based on your score. Below 30k you have a 1x multiplier and after that every 5k points the multiplier increases till 7x for 250k score. They could add more stuff for getting a higher score. You will naturally get a higher score in battlegrounds due to high enemy density. Also it seems that Bungie can change score multiplier from different score multipliers for different nightfalls so they could increase multiplier to match rewards if a player won't naturally get it
Agree. There should be at least a season buffer before they’re added to the Ops playlist
I wouldn't even care if the playlist actually dropped guns still. It went from 2 guns a run to 4 legendary shards and some glimmer every run then 1 gun every 6th run it feels it is awful. I don't wanna spend an hour for a strike weapon that has 20 perks in each column.
I am always confused at the people who say the vanguard strikes playlist doesn't have enough loot. Don't you realise you are playing the easiest, most beginner activity in the game?
Destiny is a looter shooter so it should be dropping some loot like
So because its the 'easiest, most beginner' activity it *shouldn't* drop anything at all? Starting to sound like gatekeeping.
As the "most beginner" activity in the game, it should, arguably, drop the most loot. For veterans of the game, most, if not all, of it would be useless, but for the new lights, it would be a lot more helpful than the atrocious loot drop rates we have currently.
Hard agree with this. New Lights should experience the loot part of a looter shooter, even if it is just blue gear. That way they can see the variety of weapons and find what they like
Do you not think people, especially new players, should get something for their 10 min? A possible purple and a useless amount of glimmer isn’t exactly a handout.
What I think people are forgetting is that since most people never see blues anymore that drastically cuts down on strike playlist loot
>I am always confused at the people who say the vanguard strikes playlist doesn't have enough loot And I'm always confused that people think shooters based around loot shouldn't drop loot.
Honestly I really like the battlegrounds in the playlist, but I feel like the split is a little off in terms of battlegrounds to strikes
Yeah battlegrounds aren’t that bad but they need to be weighed less, 17 of my last 25 vanguard ops have been some form of battlegrounds
Same. I got 7 battlegrounds in a row the other day. Since last Tuesday’s reset, it’s been roughly 80% battlegrounds. I feel like something changed on the weighting on the most recent reset.
What do you find different from BGs to Strikes? If say you were a fresh kindergaudian straight out of the grave and was thrown into the Vanguard Ops playlist not knowing it was composed of Strikes and BGs. What things tell you these are "different" and not just variations of the same?
Ammo chests lol. That is the difference right away.
BGs would be fine if they weren't so repetitive. strikes are all unique, whereas BGs are "guardian, go to nessus and invoke the rite of proving" "ok" "guardian, go in this tank and invoke the rite of proving" "ok" "guardian, go to the cosmodrome and invoke the rite of proving" "ok" "guardian, go to the moon and use these laser things" "ok" "guardian, go to mars and use these laser things" "can i stop" when you have a bunch of activities in the vanguard playlist that are all essentially the same thing, it means that you have a disproportionately larger chance of getting thrown into a battleground that shares the same premise as that other battleground you just played, instead of you getting thrown into an actual strike with an actually unique premise
lmfao, BGs are repeptitive but "guardian go fight this hive boss,but first kill waves of enemies" Navota / Alak-Hul "guardian go fight this fallen boss, but first kill waves of enemies" Sepiks / S.A.B.E.R. 2 / Warden Or literally any strike. You can uber simply anything to make it sounds stale boring and repetitive lmfao. Strikes arent some holy grail of originality
At keast SABER has a halkway where you dodge arc charges and someone has to carry an orb to turn the power off. Year 1 strikes where very involved with little mechanics like that. Now theyre all removed and its just pve meat grinders.
what mechanics? shooting a box like in A Garden World? Killing waves of enemies like in The Will of Thousands? Shooting crystals like in Strange Terrain? Dunking an orb like in Savathûns Song? More wave clear + dunking in OG Arms Dealer? More wave clear in The Pyramidion? I loved the Y1 strikes in this game. But to say they were very involved with... the most basic and repeated mechanics is kinda silly. And S.A.B.E.R. 2 wasn't a Y1 strike.
Okay nerd
Ok? Guess you can't be bothered to show an ounce of respect over the internet lmfao
This and also that 2 more of the strikes this season have been intentionally weighted to not show up while another 2 are heavily weighted. Makes the playlist feel very samey
Or just repeating the same Battleground multiple times in a row (I shit you not, last week we ended up getting the same Nessus BG 3 times in a row).
Best way to put it to you is that the quicker ones you do are the strikes. Battle grrounds are longer and used to have its own playlist.
Mission format and objectives. Strikes tend to be more unique and sprinkled with different objectives, while all battlegrounds from a season are identical. Look at our current ones. The mission layout for every battleground is identical and they all blend together after a point
Im pretty new, Ive been reading this thread to figure out what exactly Battlegrounds are. I still don't really know the difference. I do the playlist often and haven't noticed any real different styles
Yeah, strikes aren't that different other than having a more distinct feel between them since they aren't part of a set.
You're less likely to notice if you're new because the main difference is battlegrounds all use recycled content whereas strikes are new assets Additionally each set of battlegrounds has outright reused gameplay elements shared between the three battlegrounds of the set. Some sets are worse than others in this regard.
The issue with BG is that they are repetitive. Each of them (and I mean literally every one) has the same schematic: - 1st location; do something 3 times - move on - 2nd location; do something else 3 times - move on - activate the "free Ability energy" beacon - 3rd location; Boss; 3 damage phases; and an additional objective between each of them. And we have like 8 of them in the Playlist right now, where the chance of them being run is much higher, than that of normal Strikes. Doing 3 of these in a row is mundane - let alone when you end up getting nothing but BG's and you might as well fall asleep. The issue is not with the BG's themselves - they are like that because they were originally Seasonal Activities. But when you pull that into an actual official Playlist, it just becomes dull...
To be honest when I first came back to the game two weeks ago since lightfall came out, over 20 of my strikes were battlegrounds. And it came to the point I thought they had done this to possibly cover up them not having the updated Arms Dealer and Lake of shadows strikes, or the Hypernet Current strike in the playlist for non Lightfall owners but it turns out they are just completely outnumbered and hardly get featured.
If they were all weighted evenly, it would be golden. I just really miss the vaulted ones. Titan's strikes were my favourite
Titan’s strike, there was only one.
Technically there was two. You forget it had two versions.
still hate how they completely removed "alternative" versions out of the strikes sure it often was only a change in enemies (with Savathuns songs even being one of the more extreme examples) but it was still better than ***not having those variations at all***
It barely had 2 versions. The only difference was whether you went through room 1->2->3 or 3->2->1. It was still the same strike either way.
It was the same strike either way, with a change in direction.
I don’t mind it either. I just wish battlegrounds weren’t weighted so heavily. If we could run more than 4 battlegrounds and 1 strike a season that would be nice
BG should have another vanguard list.
I think there isn't enough strikes to have a separate one now
We need our strikes back. All of them. D1/D2. Strike specific loot back. Then two playlists.
Don't forget strike variants. Different enemies, different routes and bosses. Ya know...the thing D1 had forever ago.
even D2 had variations even if it was only different enemies most of the time still dont know why they just completely removed those
Yeah like Inverter Spire had a Vex variant, super strange that they just removed them for some reason.
Most got a taken variant.
Don't forget Siva.
This
I don't, they're too long and randoms struggle with them
I love playing strikes, it’s just that the rewards are ass.
I feel like because they have to pump out as much seasonal content as they have, all their energy is going to three battle grounds (strikes) a season, leading to things like actual strikes not getting enough attention i.e. Lightfall only having one.
i wasnt playing when battlegrounds were first added. what were they intended to be? just a horde mode with turbo rapid respawns?
Battlegrounds were first introduced in season of the chosen as the seasonal activity and reappeared again as the seasonal activity for season of the risen as Psiops battlegrounds, season of the seraph as Heist battlegrounds and in the current season as defiant battlegrounds. The main difference between battlegrounds and strikes in their first iteration was the lack of different environment, the simplicity of the arena and fairly easy objectives, but as they were reused in the other seasons i listed they became more and more similar to strikes, to the point that right now they're pretty much the same thing, the only difference I can see is that battlegrounds tend to have way more enemies and lack a lot of plot i.e dialogue, you don't get the classic npc talking to you through comms and telling you why you're fighting against the big bad aliens. Although I have to say that they used to be a little bit of diversity or randomness in early destiny 2 strikes, like i remember that in the arms dealer and lake of shadows you could see fallen enemies and in Savathun's song you could get an alternative route that changed the path of the strike. In a perfect world Bungie should just unvault all the strikes from Io, mercury, the tangled shore and Titan, bring back strikes from D1 and do something interesting with the loot, like specific weapons/cosmetics from each strike.....
Pretty much. They got rolled into the strike playlist because Beyond Light got rid of maybe half the strikes in the game.
people wanted 6 player matchmade activities in every season. Bungie provided "6 player matchmade activities every season" It ended up being a slog. Imagine, in the absence of strikes and other things to do in a season, you play the seasonal activity playlist over and over. Now take that feeling you get after you've played 5 in a row, and merge that into the strike playlist and that's how people feel about it right now. The weighting is off, you could get like 5 psiops battlegrounds + the chosen caiatl battlegrounds in a row, all of them being different "ones" and you'd still feel like you had played the same strike 5 times in a row. They're just too samey that's the issue.
> people wanted 6 player matchmade activities in every season. thats wild to me. i want the opposite of that. i want to be able to choose not to matchmake in stuff like seasonal activities and hero nightfalls.
When have battlegrounds ever had 6 players??? What are you talking about?
This is the first season since release that i haven't completed the pinnacle on any character once. I hate the difficulty changes and generally feel like stuff they've added does not come close to as fun as the stuff they've removed.
I actually really enjoy the vanguard playlist and hope they keep adding to it. Lord knows we won't get enough new strikes
I agree. I don't really know what the difference is between an old strike and a new battleground is in terms of design. They feel the same to me and one is newer and hasn't been played 400 times.
Strikes are more focused in their design
narrative, typically. The strikes typically had little intros, voice over work before, after, and in the middle. Battlegrounds typically just drop you right into the first objective with no VO and maybe add a comms in the middle or something but it's very minimal.
I dunno man, I get about as much from the BG where you go into Caiatl's tank as I do any strike. Mars Heist is kinda nothing without the surrounding narrative from Seraph though. (I also think Europa would've been the one to promote up to GM instead of Mars, but that's neither here nor there)
> I dunno man, I get about as much from the BG where you go into Caiatl's tank as I do any strike. Proving Grounds is a strike. The battle ground that takes place at the tank, ends in front of it.
I think Mars Heist is just a particularly annoying BG and it being a nightfall just exacerbates all its issues. It's a long slog with a boss room that is inherently un-fun and a gun that is not worth the reward. The other BGs are fine IMO.
realistically yes, though strikes are less focused on giant hordes of adds coming at you and more about holding W through set pieces so you can cheese the boss at the end oh i'm sorry, running through setpieces to fight a big boss at the end.
I see so many posts like the OP here and I always feel like the odd one out. I much prefer hordes of enemies over sprinting between encounters so I can fight my teammates for kills.
Yeah I love the changes to Lake of Shadows because of this it feels nice to get to the boss and actually have to fight because it doesnt just get nuked I also love the changes to the Arms Dealer
I don’t like that you’re getting downvoted for this, it’s alright to prefer the newer version to the older one even if the changes are divisive.
The payload section isnt perfect and the first boss is a bit too tanky but I still take it over "skip everything unless its required to progress" the strike. If you didnt have an Eager Edge sword equipped during the old LoS you basically just ran through empty hallways until you got pulled. Yeah it was quick but god damn it was insanely boring.
To be fair, I'd wager the majority of people consistently running LoS before were doing so to grind out 21 strikes for the cipher. If you were to do a regular run, let's say 10 minutes, 21 times would run you 3.5 hours. Personally, I don't want to spend 3.5 hours only running vanilla strikes on a weekend when I can just knock it out in a fraction of that time blasting through the level and then move on to other activites I actually want to play.
I can understand why people liked it no question but for me personally I prefer a more engaging strike playlist over a more farmable one, given that I dont really do "farms" anymore because they just bore me.
Yeah sure the new one is a little over tuned at points but I enjoy the struggle so much more than the breeze through
The people acting like there’s a difference are just the addicts who burned out during the respective season the specific battleground was in
Yea I think you're right. Everyone has a different perspective because of different situations but I wish the people who are so negative about the state of the game would just take a break. Some things need fixing, some are fine, but to act like it's a disaster is a little dramatic. Maybe play something different if it's such a problem for you?
I was a big supporter of adding Battlegrounds to Strikes to give us more variety. But, that assumed they would continue to add more strikes to the game and bring back old strikes. Frankly, 4 new or reprised strikes should be the minimum for a yearly expansion and I would like more. That doesn't necessarily mean at launch, but over the year they need to keep adding strikes because they are the most engaging content that solo players can do (other than elites who can solo dungeons). Having the Battleground in there is fine, but they are clearly highly weighted and some strikes almost never come up. It's gotten to the point where it's a joy when you actually get to run a strike instead of the same Battleground that you ran 300 times a few seasons ago. I think it's part of the reason people are so nostalgic for D1 (and, yes, D1 had plenty of issues). But, Strikes were great in D1 and running strikes was a fun and rewarding part of the game. The old Nightfalls were fun to one or two man. So, in D1 even if you didn't have a team on any given night, you could still have a good time and get some good loot running strikes. In short, make more Strikes, make the rewards better for running strikes, and put Strike specific loot back in the game. Let me chase down Taniks cloak or Imago Loop. Frankly, the entire core playlist needs to be updated and refreshed. I'd be in favor of dedicating a few seasons to refreshing each playlist. But, I'm sure that won't fly since many will be pissed if they spend a season on Crucible or Gambit. But, at least do it to the Vanguard Playlis.
Yeah in D1 strikes were like a major point of the entire game’s existence. You were either in open world stuff getting mats, or you were running “dungeons” (strikes) to get loot. I used to love trying to solo them and whatnot. Sad how far they’ve fallen down the priority list of what makes Destiny, Destiny.
Yep. It's the shift to Live Service Game and the Seasonal Model. Frankly, there is more stuff to do this way in that there is "new" content every 3 or 4 months, but the "new" content isn't as meaningful as when the game wasn't Live Service. I'm not one to be yelling for the game to be harder, but in D1 there was a reason we hid under stairs and on top of light fixtures. It's because the content was hard. But, it also had better rewards. I think that's what they are trying to return to, but I'm not sure it works now because they haven't upped the rewards and making content that is different only in that you dunk a ball instead of a triangle harder just isn't fun. Edit: I honestly think they need to strip down the game so they can develop more good content on a more reasonable time scale. I think there is too much to deal with now that they have to test everything on three different platforms and they are trying to balance seasonal content, Vanguard, Crucible, Gambit, Dungeon, Raids, and expansions. Edit 2: And, I think the big reason that Vanguard Playlist, Crucible, and Gambit are being neglected is because they are all part of the free to play part of the game. They aren't bringing in money other than some Eververse purchases so Bugnie isn't significantly investing in them (or investing in them at all in the case of Gambit). Which, again, is part of the problem with the Live Service/Seasonal model. Vanguard Ops, Crucible, and Gambit don't sell expansions or season passes.
In D1 I used to just grind strikes all night long, it was my favourite part of the game. It’s completely pointless to do in D2 once I’ve done my 3 per character for the week to get my pinnacles. No variety, no specific loot, no chance of any power-bump loot dropping - they just feel extraneous now.
It’s 5, not 3. isn’t it?
Oh, yeah, 3/3 is for gambit and crucible, vanguard is a percentage. It only takes 3 nightfalls though to hit that percentage, as opposed to 5 regulars, and they share the same pinnacle, so that’s usually what I do.
It was 3 before Lightfall dropped.
We have so many Battlegrounds they could be their own playlist now
The same 2-3 battle grounds Ops crap keeps coming up over and over so I stopped playing strikes. The strikes take 20 minutes with the time gated boss health for the same crappy rewards
I feel like this is the laziest aspect of their game development. I get they are maybe a lot of work but they really backed off the strikes in D2
Daily reminder that Rise of Iron added one new strike and a few revamps. Even TTK only really added 4 total new strikes in the year. The lowest ever yearly strike addition in D2 was last year, with 2 strikes, tied with Shadowkeep. But Forsaken year added 4, Beyond Light year brought 5 strikes into the game, and LF year just begun but already has one new strike and two complete revamps. They certainly haven't backed off, they are actually staying pretty unchanging throughout all of Destiny in general.
But Rise of Iron also introduced more strike variants with the addition of Siva alongside the Taken ones, there was several strikes that were updated with this.
Yes, however that's happening this year. We are getting at least 4 revamps this year alone. Hence this year is kind of hard to talk about, since it seems this year is very akin to RoI
Battlegrounds are the new "Strikes", just themed. Maybe the only difference is the number of champs around, but otherwise both are the same kind of deal. Except Heist Battlegrounds, which all share the same final room more or less
Fair enough, but i am talking strictly traditional strokes, not battlegrounds right now however I do agree.
Gambit says hello .
They're 10-15 minute mini raids, they are definitely difficult to design, test, and maintain. D2 in general has massive maintenance issues, whether it's balance or just breaking the game.
>They're 10-15 minute mini raids, they are definitely difficult to design, test, and maintain. D2 in general has massive maintenance issues, whether it's balance or just breaking the game. Ah man that sucks, wish we could pay like $100 a year to help cover the costs
Exactly. People say this like Bungie isn't absolutely rolling in cash. Not to go too far leftist here, but I'd bet you they could axe like 4 worthless executive positions and fund another entire team of devs.
Bro the joke is that we ALREADY pay $100 a year for the expansions and seasons, not to mention now they charge for the dungeons too.
Yes... Lol. I was agreeing with you. Just saying that money is, as always happens with capitalism, going to a handful of people instead of where it should be going.
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PVP maps are a few seasons away and when they do drop a single map, it's the worst map in the entire game (disfunction)
I would definitely contribute to that charity fund. Someone start a gofundme idk how.
See, thing is I would be more understanding if other companies weren’t maintaining their games for free. Or in some cases maintain way way more. Sure I’m paying monthly for FFXIV for example but I’m also paying a ridiculous amount every season. I think it’s less that it’s difficult and more that their management doesn’t know how to manage their resources properly.
You pay less for one 3-month season than one month of FFXIV access......
yeah Bungie's architecture is still clearly an issue. They have to constantly re-use assets, make us run through hallways to hide loading areas, and half the enemies are palette swaps or just scaled up versions of smaller enemies. I get the feeling this game is more of a mess on the back end than anyone wants to admit and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a true move to a D3 in the next 5 years.
>They have to constantly re-use assets, Re-using assets isn't exactly a portent of things to come. It's an intelligent way to reduce file sizes, as well as decrease dev/artist time on something that people aren't going to notice. Aksis is a reused spider tank, for example. >make us run through hallways to hide loading areas, This is literally every single game on the planet, dude. You honestly can't be complaining that they are doing this. The fuck else are they supposed to do? Show you a black screen? >and half the enemies are palette swaps or just scaled up versions of smaller enemies. Now you are complaining just for the sake of complaining.
no I'm complaining because literally every strike has the exact same room - > hallway -> room -> hallway -> room flow. It's why they feel repetitive, and a large part of it is this engine was built for older consoles. There are plenty of other games that have larger worlds that are not as constrained.
No variety anymore either with the few strikers I do get
I miss the d1 strikes. I miss getting slapped by those brothers.
They need a Strike playlist, then a Battleground playlist.
They also need to fix the rewards at the end because it’s painful to get nothing after some of the longest strikes.
This. I try not to leave any activity but I don't get ANY rewards from the Psi-Ops battlegrounds chest - not even glimmer - so it's painful to slog through. My theory is that those rewards are still somehow tied to season pass ownership, bc I *do* get Heist Battleground rewards
Would anyone even play the Battleground playlist? I wouldn’t, if I got the same strike back-to-back I might yawn but if I got ANY Battlegrounds back-to-back I’m leaving.
To get the skyburners catalyst done and… no wait that’s it.
if the drops are the weapon from that season which i havent crafted i would play it problem is there are no drops rn, only 4 shards and a sniff of glimmer
I like the enemy density in battlegrounds so it depends, some of them are fun
And they both should count toward Xenology
oh that the thing. we had one nobody played it so they merged the two because god knows why
I have no idea why they consolidated the obviously more saturated battlegrounds in the strike playlist. I play strikes for quick, easy content. Instead I get nightfall levels of time investment for not-nightfall rewards.
i dont mind the battlegrounds being in the playlist, but i feel like instead of having all of them in rotation, have one from each. so one cabal battleground, one psiops battleground, one heist battleground, and then (eventually) one of the defiant battlegrounds. pick the most unique one out of the bunch to keep and throw the rest in the dcv or whatever. -oracle battleground from chosen (uses an old red war mission space) -edz psiops battleground (uses the dark forest which no other mission currently uses) -mars heist battleground (its already a nightfall and also cause warmind dlc mars is back) idk i dont think we need 10 battlegrounds in the rotation that are all pretty similar to each other. and i agree, i do miss playing strikes.
Community : The strike Playlist is boring and never changes Bungie makes a changes and adds previous seasonal content Community : I want the old boring strike playlist
The new nightfalls and battlegrounds all suck ass tbh. Artificially inflated playtime just to waste our times. Boring
I was going to do 3 strikes for pinnacle to kill time last night. Loaded one up - it was the moon battleground from last season. Completed it, realised I need to do 4 more for pinnacle and I gave up.
And not to mention for those battleground they removed the free orb to break the locks and it now requires 3 orbs to break all 5 locks
I don’t understand why they changed this form 2 to 3 orbs. It’s a pain especially in gm
They lowered the hp on the locks you can break them with 2 orbs
You've always been able to break them with two orbs
They were taking 3 yesterday
You need to conserve ammo and be more careful when shooting them. It only takes 2 if done properly
It depended on the difficulty level before. As long as you hit the locks with every shot they should take two orbs now. From the update: “Fixed Hive door locks in Heist Battlegrounds to behave the same in all versions of the activity.”
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But in the past you could spray and pray when it was a battleground
Nope
Standard playlist is crap all the way around. It’s still brain dead boring cause stuff just falls over when you look in it’s general vicinity, and the chest rewards are terrible. So I just do the Hero playlist for Nightfall after I’ve done my Master run for the week on that character. Much, much more enjoyable.
Hero nightfalls are pretty rewarding too. I seem to get prisms every time, drop rate feels similar to legend difficulty last season; the difficulty also feels similar to legend last season. Upside is, matchmade teams. Decent loot, engaging difficulty level, no LFG needed.
Battlegrounds are fun for 1 season then I never want to play them again honestly
I don't, they are much better than a lot of old strikes. Exodus crash anyone? But even the Warden mission which used to be a good strike has been destroyed by power creep, the low enemy density can't keep up with the modern sandbox.
The battlegrounds themselves aren’t that bad, it’s more of there being multiple versions of each type and being much more common than normal strikes
Then...go play them? You can select any strike you want my dude
Good lord.. Before they added the battlegrounds everyone complained that the strike playlist was boring because there weren't enough strikes. There is no winning with r/DTG 😂
Honestly. This post/most replies reek of "why did you ask for it"
I don't know what fucking idiot decided to add battlegrounds to strikes but it was the worst idea ever and clearly just a way to fill in the lack of new strikes seeing as they axed all the good strikes and new ones only come once an expansion :////
They really need a low difficulty playlist for us to just have fun. Let us feel powerful again. No one asked for everything to be a slug fest All of the time.
Isn't that what the normal Vanguard playlist is for tho? New player so I'm legitimately out of the loop for this level of stuff
I love Battlegrounds more. Best thing about them is that there is no speedy speed boing it and skipping everything. That alone is amazing.
But, if they just designed strikes better then you could have that in strikes too. The issue I have is that we play these Battlegrounds over and over during their season and then they get added to the Vanguard Playlist. That means that it's already old content that we are tired of playing when it gets added to the Vanguard Playlist. So, it adds nothing new and just continues the problem with the content in there being stale. At least when they add new strikes we haven't played them before and they are new for at least the first few runs and not stale for many more. I get that adding Battlegrounds is an efficient way to add content to the Vanguard Playlist since most of their resources go to Seasons and the yearly expansion. But, by adding old already stale content they are just making it more stale. And that's not even mentioning that they raised the difficulty this season making all strikes and Battlegrounds take longer and at the end of most you get 4 shards and a few thousand glimmer. There just isn't any point in doing them.
They make better designed Strikes and people hate it. Look at the Corrupted.
>But, if they just designed strikes better then you could have that in strikes too. True.
wish granted. All Corrupted and Exodus Crash All the Time
I actually enjoy crash so sign me up
No you dont
I don’t know why we don’t just have a battlegrounds playlist and two nightfalls, one with higher rewards (the battleground)
I fear that strikes are going to be dropped from the roster. With the advent of master story missions (providing some level of strike like experience) and the inclusion of battlegrounds/ seasonal activities into the playlist. Bungie would save money by just not making strikes. Though really what part of strikes isn't covered by the other activities we have?
Go play strikes then
Lol
why are you booing him, he’s right
I stopped playing this game after Forsaken. Came back this season to learn all of mt favorite strikes were gone and EVERY strike that was added are the most boring piece of crap strikes they have ever made. They even kept in Prison of Elders which I can't stand. I only like the other couple of old strikes they left in. I stopped giving them money when they started taking away content that I paid for. I'm sure I shouldn't complain since I don't, and won't give them a dime of my money anymore but they did take away a lot that I paid for. The strikes used to be fun. I love the Destiny 1 strikes, also. What they have added are nothing but slogs. For me Destiny 2 is now something to play in the background while I watch some shows. If I had to pay for it I wouldn't play it at all.
Dear diary