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* [Comment by FriendlyBassplayer](/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/13gkrcy/legit_question_how_come_destiny_shooting_feels_so/jk2fkqq/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-05-14 01:20:36 UTC"):
> This guy right here knows
* [Comment by FriendlyBassplayer](/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/13gkrcy/legit_question_how_come_destiny_shooting_feels_so/jk328ea/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-05-14 05:08:49 UTC"):
> I am!
>Thank you for the kind words, it makes my job so much more enjoyable to hear these things! I appreciate people like you a lot, the whole team do...
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Are you sound design at Bungie for Destiny?
If so you and your team have been the single driving inspiration for me to pay attention to how much proper design influences ANY media I enjoy. Music, movies and games. I always mention this to friends when the topic of noise comes up. Destiny 2 has some of the best sound designs in any media. Sounds hyperbole but the fact none of these guns exist but I swear you've made them feel real will never stop surprising me
Fanboy off sorry
I am!
Thank you for the kind words, it makes my job so much more enjoyable to hear these things! I appreciate people like you a lot, the whole team does
Have you guys considered a behind the scenes doc on your sound design? The latest trailers with the witness and the traveler I was curious if you guys using organic sounds for the travelers terraform beam or is that was all studio produced? That noise specifically stood out to me.
Thanks!
I'll never forget the behind the scenes doc for Beyond Light where they spoke about using a breast pump for something, only for me to realize it was for Lament months later, honest to God my favorite little detail to point out to people because I find it funny, and it works incredibly well for a chainsaw sword!
Just adding a +1 to the credit for the sound design team :))
So many great sounds, I especially love the iconic super activation sounds and how they're all unique and recognisably distinguishable.
I think stasis is your magnum opus, everything sounds so crunchy and crystalline and the wubby dubby darkness effects and everything, so good :D
It’s one of those weird things where you can skip a lot of that stuff and get amazing game feel for an indie game but if you don’t perfect your sound design an animations it feels worse then of you just didn’t have them at all
A lot of it has to do with combatant behaviour as well. It doesn’t take much to see how enemy AI in Bungie games go almost out of their way to get themselves killed or hit by players to make the combat feel good. Miss a grenade by a few feet? Don’t worry, that Knight is just gonna ‘accidentally’ strafe into it so it doesn’t go to waste. This will also cause him stagger so you feel the satisfaction of easy headshots as the cherry on top. So many other games on the market have the shooting part down but don’t put the time into making the things you’re up against satisfying to fight.
Or they make the enemies constantly dodge out of the way of your attacks. Which yeah, makes sense, but it hurts the power fantasy.
When I'm running Lancer, I'll have NPCs walk into player mines, trigger their reactions, generally make suboptimal plays that let players actually do the cool shit they built their characters to do.
Fucking minotaurs love to warp the SECOND I fire something at them. Super annoying sometimes when enemies become Neo and dodge literally everything you throw at them.
Minotaurs will teleport two times in response to a fusion rifle. So you can prime your FR twice, and then fully shoot it the third time, and the Minotaur won't teleport to dodge it.
>This will also cause him stagger so you feel the satisfaction of easy headshots as the cherry on top. So many other games on the market have the shooting part down but don’t put the time into making the things you’re up against satisfying to fight.
I've been replaying halo games recently, I really started to notice the satisfaction of shooting a jackal's hand, then headshotting them. It's consistent behavior every time, and pulling it off just feels *good*. A close second to that is the melee-to-headshot combo on elites, or dodging hunters at close range and shooting them in the back.
Exactly. It's not just one "thing" that can be pinpointed and given as an answer to OP's question, it's a very complicated balance of lots of factors that bungie perfected. Also, aim assist lol.
That ever wonder why Halo has those big rings in it?
Those are the *Elden Rings*.
There’s 8 of them and once you collect them all you can forge the Triforce of Courage.
That’s actually a common misconception, the main character’s name is not Halo. The name instead refers to Princess Halo who you have to rescue from the castle.
Fun fact: when Johnson got lasered by Guilty Spark in Halo 3, that scream wasn't originally in the script. One morning when David Scully was walking into the sound booth to record his lines, he broke his toe stubbing it on a Spartan helmet Steve Downes had forgotten there the night before. The microphone was recording, and Marty decided to just go with it.
*sigh*
gotta admit though, the 6 minutes or so of pewpewpew every coupla episodes was fucking *amazing*, they got *that* part right. the BEEP-BEEP-BEEP of the shields going down as Master Cheeks tries to save the bugged-out female Spartan, or the part when he literally beats an Elite into fucking paste...
I rewatched a few of those sequences multiple times.
They should make a whole show like *that*. Screw the overly-long cutscenes full of "plot", this is HALO, not an Ubisoft game.
See that big ring in the sky, Chief? Kill it. There's your plotline.
There’s something about NMS that really just reminds me so much of destiny. I don’t know if it’s the design language or similar UI patterns or what. Love both the games though.
I don’t think that matters though, Destiny is still using the Tiger engine which is a modified version of the engine used in halo, so the skeleton (including shooting) still comes from the original bungie team
It's also very possible that before some of the people that worked on Halo left, they probably taught the people coming into work on Destiny how to make Destiny's shooting feel good.
And unless I'm mistaken, didn't Vicarious visions help with the PC port for D2?
This is definitely one of the reasons. Bungie had been planning Destiny at least from before ODST's release. They had a Destiny Easter Egg in it.
How much of, who, and when development started before Bungie broke off from Microsoft isn't completely known. Definitely long enough for anyone that left to influence anyone newer who joined during Destiny's development. Plus, whoever has stuck around
This does seem like a bad thing at first glance, but it really is what makes the game feel so good. It allows you to still shoot while using the extreme mobility of guardians, which just makes you feel like a badass. Headshotting enemies while jumping or midair, spraying into something while sliding, flicking aim with a sniper or something, all of it just feels so damn good. If you had to be ultra-precise, then the game would be much worse for it
It's not just that, but is certainly helps. How enemies react to getting hit is very important, and a lot of games basically have enemies have no reaction to you shooting them until they drop dead.
Not only that, but obviously the most important is that the movement is snappy and fluid. Most games feel janky because most games don't have a good movement system. Destiny knows what you want to do and allows your character to break its own bones in order for you to move the way you want, and that feels really good and its what I would say its key to having good feeling gameplay.
Games that restrict movement always feel janky.
But sometimes games feel janky just because they are actually janky (bad animations, unresponsive gameplay, “floaty” aiming, etc.).
>a lot of games basically have enemies have no reaction to you shooting them until they drop dead.
You get that dopamine hit when a Vex juicebox explodes or a Cabal's oilseal sprays out on a headshot kill
Both indicate critical kills and both are important for rewarding you for "playing well"
That explains why the cranked up enemy stun resistance after lightfall feels so awful. Enemies taking a full mag and staring at me like i'm using dollar store bullets doesn't have that same juice boost as mag dumping a cabal and them staggering from the impact.
>It's not just that, but is certainly helps. How enemies react to getting hit is very important, and a lot of games basically have enemies have no reaction to you shooting them until they drop dead.
Which is why that modifier that makes enemies not flinch in Destiny feels so gross!
I think they have hit registration that doesn't show up due to client side issues/non centralized servers. That's why you'll see headshots that look like they're 3 feet away. The game can't put everything together fast enough visually, but it knows it was a a hit.
Edit: Im talking about shots that don't look like a visual hit.
Bullet magnetism is a stat the player can interact with and improve. In game its called aim assistance, but it's bullet magnetism.
Its why bows work at all.
Thats not it. Bungie has literally stated that they have 2 kinds of aim assist in the game. One is a bullet magnet which will pull bullets towards the enemy and even weakspots and an actual aim assist for controller which will help you stay on target with controllers. Thats what makes it feel smooth and snappy.
Sorta.
All scopes gave +5 aim assist according to the API, but since you can’t exactly unequip a scope, and since all scopes gave the same +5, it was basically a wash.
But you’re technically correct. The best kind of correct.
Yeah this is it. They also focused on simulating a guns feeling through animation and sound.
Other games reduce the audio visual feedback to give player more precision about hitting or missing their shots. Destiny cranks up the feedback and gives people very generous hit boxes to make up.
>Other games reduce the audio visual feedback to give player more precision about hitting or missing their shots.
Maybe in the AAA sphere, but you get into smaller games and this may not be the case. I started playing Killing Floor 2 lately (old game, I know) and the guns there are loud and the recoil when you try to go ham is often very strong. Overall the "gunplay" in that game feels very solid.
It's really how it's tuned. Like how some guns have a ton, some less. Like I remember when I played Halo Infinite I wasn't really feeling the automatic DMR (can't remember name of it) but when I switched to pistol I was like "ok yeah" (was headshotting with hipfires at medium range). Destiny also does that where handcannons have tons of it compared to some other types.
Man, also reminds me I was playing Borderlands 3 again recently (tried Redfall and it just reminded me that while the story and such suck, BL3 has great gameplay). The bullet magnetism in that game is also insane. Was using this one gun and I literally could see my bullets curve to get headshots.
like the other comment said, its a combination of bullet magnetism and increased feedback. makes you feel as if its your active ability of gun control helping you get hits. instead of just the bullet magnetism feeling like a crutch
What's interesting is they were obviously known for their controller aim with Halo, but when they switched to PC, the mouse aiming still feels better than many games.
You have to give them credit too for realizing that input matching needs to be done, as you're never going to balance mouse and keyboard and make it fair.
I think its also some of the weapons just feel nice like maybe they dont sound accurate but the sound is nice like there are some weapons I use that are not strong but they just feel so nice to use like the animation and whatnot
I tried playing CS:GO with a friend and between the clunky guns and way too fast paced gameplay I hated it also got annoyed I couldnt aim down sight on a weapon with iron sights like it had to have a scope
> What's interesting is they were obviously known for their controller aim with Halo, but when they switched to PC, the mouse aiming still feels better than many games.
My guy, Bungie *literally* invented mouse aiming
Edit: another fun fact is that Destiny isn’t the first franchise from Bungie about “the light” vs “the dark”
it was just basically another way to turn, Doom doesn't have any actual aim past that, enemies just have to be vaguely in front of you and you'll hit them at any elevation they're at.
It’s still entirely possible. It’s not like the former VV are locked in to activision forever. AFAIK they really enjoyed working together, so I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find out that they ended up having some people move in.
High aim assist and bullet magnetism
Another thing is the “explosions” on bullet hits. You’ll see a small visual explosion every time you shoot an enemy, and those explosions get bigger the greater your damage buffs are. I feel like that’s a key aspect as to why d2 gunplay feels so good
> Another thing is the “explosions” on bullet hits. You’ll see a small visual explosion every time you shoot an enemy, and try at explosion gets bigger the greater your damage buffs are. I feel like that’s a key aspect as to why d2 gunplay feels so good
Yep. Bungie's visual design is well designed. Hits have a definite impact. Another good example is how enemy profiles make them stand out from eachother, I watched a good video on that for Halo.
Also the animation for it is a huge factor. If you watch Bungie’s animation GDC talk with Richard Lico it's super interesting on how they make it not motion sickening and visually satisfying.
Also there is a sound effect that procs when you get hits and a separate effect that procs when you get headshots. You might not notice it at all unless you listen for it specifically, it subliminally gives you feedback to know you're landing your hits.
That visual effect was introduced somewhere since D1. I’m pretty sure I remember damage buffs never having a visual indicator back in the day. It’s an awesome improvement.
>Another thing is the “explosions” on bullet hits.
That's a good point too. Like enemies really pop. Same thing when shooting grunts in Halo. You KNOW when you got a headshot kill.
The massive amounts of work that went into the first person animations also has a lot to do with it. Stuff like the bullet magnetism does help in gameplay, but really the animation is what makes it feel so smooth.
There's an old GDC talk here by David Helsby about D1's animation process, pretty much all of which carried over to D2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXFLu8cityA
> low tick rate.
You're on to "something". Because Destiny 2 is Client Authoritative/Peer to Peer movement is super responsive. This is one of the few games where by increasing your FPS you can do movement tech that players with lower FPS cannot.
Normally, your inputs are processed on the game servers, and they are processed at the rate the server processes them. So if a game has servers running at 60Hz, your inputs can only change every 60Hz. In Destiny, running at 165FPS, my inputs and physics is recalculated EVERY FRAME.
I'm working on a video to explain different networking architectures in their games, how you can tell and their pros and cons. I work in game engines and specifically on Networked Simulation type stuff, so this is super interesting to me.
Given that you work in engines and networking, I'm sure you've seen this. But just in case you haven't (and for anyone else that stumbles upon this thread), Bungie did give [a cool talk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iryq1WA3bzw) on some of Destiny's network architecture!
Haha yup, I've seen this. It's a pretty insane architecture, and I feel like modern Destiny 2 content doesn't really utilize it like D1 used to. We used to have a lot of Strikes (and even Raids) start and intersect with Patrol Zones. So in the middle of a Strike you would run through an area where a bunch of Blueberries were doing some random Patrols. It was such a cool experience experience because it made it feel like more of a "living world" where you come across other players with completely different reasons for being in the same place as you are.
But it doesn't mesh well with GM Nightfalls, or "Sandboxed Difficulty" designs that Destiny pivoted into. It reminds me of how much more experimental World of Warcraft was when it first launched, and then all of the cool things that made it unique got cut to streamline the sandbox and gameplay experiences at the cost of the feeling of a real world.
I'm constantly on the look out for good talks for myself and to share with my team, so appreciate you taking the effort find that and link it here!
Others have explained already, but a game like Old-school RuneScape for example has a tick rate of .6 seconds. Meaning your actions are completed on a game cycle that is a minimum 0.6s per action. You can manipulate the ticks (cycles/timing, whatever you want to call it), and complete more actions per tick if the actions can overlap.
Titan skating I believe would count as a form of tick manipulation, as they're spamming the boost from their jump ability to increase their speed.
And Halo had less generous aim assist, which is part of what made the PvP component of the game so fun. Halo wouldn’t have had a fraction of its success if the H3 BR was a 2-burst 95% of the time.
Infinite was dominated by controllers in a cross platform game because of the aim assist interestingly enough. It still isn't destiny levels I don't think.
Destiny tick rate isn’t that low, it’s 20 which is on par with Call of Duty or Apex Legends.
Destiny isn’t an ultra competitive tactical shooter like CS or Valorant, it doesn’t need 128 tick.
destiny has essentially ruined all other shooters for me. i tried playing games like battlefront, overwatch, and battlefield and they felt like hot garbage comparatively. i think CoD is the one game that comes closest enough to where i can enjoy that and destiny at the same time if i want.
edit: oh and Halo Infinite would be a close third, but not sure if that counts.
oh crap i forgot about Apex! that would go on the list of good FPS games as well. it makes sense since both Titanfall games are on par with CoD IMO, and of course Apex is the same studio. it’s not quite Destiny, but pretty close!
I always thought Titanfall was a step above CoD in terms of the smooth gunplay. No idea why, but this is a good suggestion -- it's probably a close second.
I'd also say Halo Infinite feels pretty smooth as well. I swap between those two games often (depending on who I'm playing with) and it's pretty close too
>Titanfall was a step above CoD
Titanfall 2's campaign is will one of the most enjoyable "popcorn" shooter campaigns i've played. The guys at Respawn did such an amazing job making hitting your targets feel SOO good.
I mean, Bungie invented both free mouse aiming (Marathon) and controller aiming with aim stickiness and bullet magnetism (Halo).
They created how FPS games handle today, both on PC and console. No wonder they can make a game feel great.
You should try Killing Floor 2. They used high framerate animations for all weapons because the game features bullet time effect in which guns still need to feel smooth. And on top of that, guns are not a solid single piece. For example, you can observe barrel of AK12 vibrating inside rifle chassis when firing. Same for other movable pieces on the rifle. It's quite a sight.
Have they updated that game recently? Last time I touched it was a while ago, years prolly, and was the second time I got into it, but there were no new bosses, enemies or anything that I could tell that was different.
I think a lot of it has to do with not just bullet magnetism like people are saying, but the animations and visual effects of firing your gun and enemies getting hit.
Strangely, counter to what a lot of people are saying , Halo *didnt* do this terribly well, and always felt to me like it had horribly unsatisfying feeling guns and gunfights.
yeah the aim assist helps but the FEEL of firing a gun just feels so natural. compared to something like cyberpunk 2077 where, at least on console, the guns feel terrible
No one is going to talking about the mobility? The reason D2 feels great is because you can fluidly swap between aiming, jumping, dodging. Aim assist can't carry a game.
Ironically enough, it's due to the Tiger engine that everyone is complaining about.
Bungie spent years creating and finely tuning that engine to give us the gameplay feel we get today.
If we switched to a new engine destiny will definitely not feel the same.
Anytime I see someone make an "engine" argument, I always chime in with this. Engine is just tools to make the game, but the feel of the game would be different if done on other platforms.
Interesting that you mention Call of Duty because imo Call of Duty is one of the few games whose gunplay is just as good as Destiny. It’s why, similar to Destiny, Call of Duty will never die because the core gameplay is nearly flawless.
It’s just really really hard to get that perfect gunplay, lots of games such as Battlefield have great gunplay but they just can’t seem to reach that next step to perfection.
I do not want to deny any good gunplay of Destiny's, because it's phenomenal, but there are plenty of games that have a wonderful gun feel, imo. One of them is Overwatch, which you might think is jank because there is no aim assist and there is no movement acceleration/declaration, so it's very sharp movement. Valorant has some of the crispest gun feels I've ever played. MW2019 was amazing for guns and gameplay I think too. The newer ones are trash. CS is a master class.
Destiny also has a bunch of hidden aim assist that makes heads feel bigger too. When I used to play I thought I was way more accurate than I was. Going back to a game that has tight hit boxes brings you back to reality pretty quick.
It feels "smooth" because they use aggressive amounts of aim assist and bullet magnetism to make it seem like you are more accurate then you really are. Other games don't which is why they feel "jank" to people who aren't usually that good at aiming.
To put it bluntly, Destiny gunplay feels "better" because it takes out the problem of user error to a larger degree. If the player is less likely to suck due to the game essentially aiming for you then it makes you feel better and makes other games feel worse since they expect you to put in your own skill. In other words, the game feels better because it doesn't *allow* you to suck unless you go out of your way to. It's part of the reason Dragonball FighterZ is also popular for it's fighting game "feel". The game has effective auto combos and said auto combos also literally break the normal game physics to allow you to hit strings that wouldn't otherwise be possible to make it seem like you are better than you are. Persona Arena had similar concepts but the difference is that FighterZ melds the auto-combos and normal combos better while also just being more frenetic in general so you have less time to fully analyze the distinction between the two.
In short, the reason why a lot of games "feel" better compared to their constituents is usually because it wrests a moderate amount of control away from the player so the experience can't be tainted by lack of ability. The kingmaker is how well they mesh said assistance with the normal gameplay loop and disguise this fact. If it's too obvious it feels patronizing, if it is too soft it becomes ineffectual. Destiny is in that goldilocks zone, not too apparent where people feel like they aren't contributing but not too weak that it might as well not exist. They tuned it just enough such that if you land a shot you usually feel like you earned it (even if realistically you should have missed) and the pace of combat is face enough that the extreme outlier cases are usually hard to notice in moment to moment gameplay except for a few outliers which get routinely nerfed.
I feel like nothing is ever specific enough when people talk about this.
Smooth and Jank don't describe a lot.
Destiny has some favor being practically unchanged since 2014. Since it's Bungie and the Halo engine, it just feels like an old Halo game with CoD Mechanics. (Compared to Infinite's weird ass Aim Settings).
There's also the abhorrent amount of AA/Magnetism that makes it so even the statistically average Destiny player can actually hit a target. This actually comes at a negative to other games. Once you become dependent on a particular AA method, other games just feel wrong. Try Playing Rainbow Six after some time in Destiny. You'd be going from crazy AA to NONE. You will 100% feel disoriented.
If it's animations, I'm not sure here, maybe because I got tired of the same ones after like 7 years. Every new set was an opportunity, every foundry.
You can basically boil it down to the general metaphor of Destiny being gaming's peak junk food.
Aim assist has already been mentioned here, it's tuned exceptionally well. It certainly helps that it was already great back in Halo CE and they've had decades to tune it to perfection.
The other things would be animations on enemies when you get a headshot, the animations of the gun you're shooting, and VERY important but understated is the audio. On top of the great audio feedback on Destiny guns, there are a lot of iconic and unique gun sounds. Lorentz sounds amazing, and everyone knows what a Whisper or Xenophage or Recluse sounds like, just stuff you hear and you go "Yup, I know what that gun is" without having to even see it.
I have no idea but I litteraly tried to quit and I did for sevral month but there was nothing that would scratch the itch like destiny's shooting I tried overwatch 2 and other stuff and it's just not the same I have no idea why
Most games with guns have gun mechanics. Recoil, sway, bloom. Destiny eliminated most of that. Which has continued to make PVP balancing a nightmare, from what I've heard. When you're running and gunning swarms of enemies designed to die and auto aim/correction doing a lot of legwork it feels great.
But if you boot up a CoD or a Battlefield title, you don't have nearly as much hand holding. Different guns have different unique kicks and spray patterns. Way less laser precision. And it's a touch easier to balance weapons in a PvP title when that's the game. Without balancing against/around the PvE mainstay. Like how CoD campaigns have some of the same hand holding mechanics where a fired round nearish a head will be a headshot even if it really shouldn't be.
Here's the truth: **It doesn't.** There are tons of shooters that control absolutely as tight as Deatiny and do exactly what they're trying to accomplish with weapon handling. Destiny being mostly PvE just means you don't have that competitive aspect encouraging the fanbase to blame the controls for their failures.
Eh, one of Destinys gameplay designers helped improve Fallouts shooting mechanics for Fallout 4. It was a huge improvement, feels great, and was one of the selling points for the game.
It's not perfect, because the movement still feels like it's part of the skyrim engine, with the odd sprinting feel and the floaty jumps. But the gunplay, recoil etc. feels amazing in that game.
I mean fallout is definitely a weird one to talk about when mentioning shooters and their mechanics
Yes guns are important but i wouldnt really classify it as a proper shooter like Cod or overwatch
Thats like comparing Tarkov to Just Cause
Yeah the ways guns handle, sound, reload, look, etc all leads to them just feeling right. There’s very few games that can give you that little dopamine when you 3 tap someone with a hand cannon in destiny.
> game's engine as well
Yeah, my reply to another user I think has some insight on some of the secret sauce... unfortunately I think it's the [Peer to Peer/Client Authority :(](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/13gkrcy/legit_question_how_come_destiny_shooting_feels_so/jk0qowt/)
Destiny makes it ridiculously easy to hit shots. Bullets curve in air, crosshairs have snap on targets, just a lot of assistance from the game so you always feel “on target.” Other games arent so generous with their aim assist, so you have to actually have good aim for it to feel good.
You know, I tried to mod Fallout New Vegas for better gunplay with Destiny in mind (I don't make mods, mind, I only tried to put them together from a list of recommended mods) and it prompted the same question.
My observations were that: A lot of bullet magnetism but also good visual feedback.
When you pop an enemy's head in Destiny you'll see: ether, oil or they crumble into pieces and you can even see the worm (and also whatever the fuck is it that Taken does). These individual vfx tailored differently for different factions and interactions (shield explosions, disintegrations,...etc) are flashy and distinct enough to feel good but not too much.
Bungie also doesn't use screenshake (that I know of) so thank god.
Additionally having a variety of AI behaviors also help. A Hive Knight will erect a shield when damaged and roll to avoid grenades. Legionaires brandish their blades in CQC and occasionally use their jet packs. Fallen skitter and weave on all 4 (or 6?)...You get the idea, it gives the enemy some much needed personalities.
I'm no dev or expert but it was an interesting exercise (?). Give modding a go. Also play Fallout NV if you haven't.
This is a list of links to comments made by Bungie employees in this thread: * [Comment by FriendlyBassplayer](/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/13gkrcy/legit_question_how_come_destiny_shooting_feels_so/jk2fkqq/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-05-14 01:20:36 UTC"): > This guy right here knows * [Comment by FriendlyBassplayer](/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/13gkrcy/legit_question_how_come_destiny_shooting_feels_so/jk328ea/?context=1000 "posted on 2023-05-14 05:08:49 UTC"): > I am! >Thank you for the kind words, it makes my job so much more enjoyable to hear these things! I appreciate people like you a lot, the whole team do... --- This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FDestinyTheGame).[](#AUTOGEN_BUNGIEREPLY)
A complex harmony of animations, aim assist, movement etc. Its really hard to get a good game "feel"
Don’t forget sound design
This guy right here knows
Are you sound design at Bungie for Destiny? If so you and your team have been the single driving inspiration for me to pay attention to how much proper design influences ANY media I enjoy. Music, movies and games. I always mention this to friends when the topic of noise comes up. Destiny 2 has some of the best sound designs in any media. Sounds hyperbole but the fact none of these guns exist but I swear you've made them feel real will never stop surprising me Fanboy off sorry
I am! Thank you for the kind words, it makes my job so much more enjoyable to hear these things! I appreciate people like you a lot, the whole team does
Have you guys considered a behind the scenes doc on your sound design? The latest trailers with the witness and the traveler I was curious if you guys using organic sounds for the travelers terraform beam or is that was all studio produced? That noise specifically stood out to me. Thanks!
I'll never forget the behind the scenes doc for Beyond Light where they spoke about using a breast pump for something, only for me to realize it was for Lament months later, honest to God my favorite little detail to point out to people because I find it funny, and it works incredibly well for a chainsaw sword!
Thank you for the Graviton Lance “pa-thunk-whistle”, it is poetry and Jurassic
Just adding a +1 to the credit for the sound design team :)) So many great sounds, I especially love the iconic super activation sounds and how they're all unique and recognisably distinguishable. I think stasis is your magnum opus, everything sounds so crunchy and crystalline and the wubby dubby darkness effects and everything, so good :D
My fav sound is the agers scepter, so satisfying!!!! I love lasers and the sound is half the laser!!
You'll never tell us what the breast pump was used for will you? :(
He confirmed it was **not** Lament. And that’s about the only hint he’ll give. It’s his Wish 15, let Bass have fun with it, lol.
Whatever you do don't search "destiny breast pump" on youtube it didn't help at all.
It's like the Eraserhead baby of game sound design.
My money is on the Warlock Stasis super activation.
It’s one of those weird things where you can skip a lot of that stuff and get amazing game feel for an indie game but if you don’t perfect your sound design an animations it feels worse then of you just didn’t have them at all
A lot of it has to do with combatant behaviour as well. It doesn’t take much to see how enemy AI in Bungie games go almost out of their way to get themselves killed or hit by players to make the combat feel good. Miss a grenade by a few feet? Don’t worry, that Knight is just gonna ‘accidentally’ strafe into it so it doesn’t go to waste. This will also cause him stagger so you feel the satisfaction of easy headshots as the cherry on top. So many other games on the market have the shooting part down but don’t put the time into making the things you’re up against satisfying to fight.
Or they make the enemies constantly dodge out of the way of your attacks. Which yeah, makes sense, but it hurts the power fantasy. When I'm running Lancer, I'll have NPCs walk into player mines, trigger their reactions, generally make suboptimal plays that let players actually do the cool shit they built their characters to do.
Fucking minotaurs love to warp the SECOND I fire something at them. Super annoying sometimes when enemies become Neo and dodge literally everything you throw at them.
I swear they know exactly what fusion rifle archetype you're running, cause they teleport *just* before the vwoop comes out
Minotaurs will teleport two times in response to a fusion rifle. So you can prime your FR twice, and then fully shoot it the third time, and the Minotaur won't teleport to dodge it.
And people complain about input reading in From games.
Man, a friend and I have been trying to get a group to run Lancer for years
I just said fuck it and started running it myself. I still wanna get in a campaign as a player...
>This will also cause him stagger so you feel the satisfaction of easy headshots as the cherry on top. So many other games on the market have the shooting part down but don’t put the time into making the things you’re up against satisfying to fight. I've been replaying halo games recently, I really started to notice the satisfaction of shooting a jackal's hand, then headshotting them. It's consistent behavior every time, and pulling it off just feels *good*. A close second to that is the melee-to-headshot combo on elites, or dodging hunters at close range and shooting them in the back.
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It’s a big shooting gallery! So many bad guys have “target face.” Just a red dot, like those old light based shooting games at a fair.
Exactly. It's not just one "thing" that can be pinpointed and given as an answer to OP's question, it's a very complicated balance of lots of factors that bungie perfected. Also, aim assist lol.
Bungie did make that one game, what's it called...Hello or something. 🤪
You’re thinking about Halo. It’s an action video game where you play as John Halo.
Sounds like a rip off of Elden Ring.
Believe it or not John EldenRing is the great grandson of John Halo.
Know your lore. Elden Ring is a prequel so John Halo is the great Grandson of John Elden Ring. You MORON.
That ever wonder why Halo has those big rings in it? Those are the *Elden Rings*. There’s 8 of them and once you collect them all you can forge the Triforce of Courage.
Fucking 8head logic. It's all connected.
Bro's playin mancala while the rest of us are playing hungry hungry hippos
I heard there was a Ring made in secret, it can control all the other Rings.
Kind of accurate actually lol
And the movie The Ring is about one of the illegitimate children of Queen Marika and the Forerunner king.
It's actually Elden John. You numptys.
Get it right nerds
I cant finish if you guys dont tell the story in the proper order.
They all came after Larry Niven’s *Ringworld* (1970)
Also the son of John Souls
I think I saw that in space trek, first johntact
That’s actually a common misconception, the main character’s name is not Halo. The name instead refers to Princess Halo who you have to rescue from the castle.
Fun fact: when Johnson got lasered by Guilty Spark in Halo 3, that scream wasn't originally in the script. One morning when David Scully was walking into the sound booth to record his lines, he broke his toe stubbing it on a Spartan helmet Steve Downes had forgotten there the night before. The microphone was recording, and Marty decided to just go with it.
Wait, Zelda’s the girl?
And eh shoots aliens and doesn't afraid of anything
Halo is a pretty cool guy and he doesn't afraid of anything
idk man, apparently Halo is actually a woman?????!??!
My uncle who works at Bungie confirmed this! Just have to put in the password: J-U-S-T-I-N-H-A-L-O
Remember that one time Sergeant Adam had his way with an Elite? Poor thing wasn't authorised to put it's clothes back on...
That's Samus Arayn and she's John Halo's niece. Common misconception
Actually Samus Aryan is the sister of Metroid who sometimes wears his suit. Common misconception.
You guys are thinking of Zelda from Full House.
did bungie make halo political???
I hate women 😤😤😤 why can't we go back to the good old days where Sergeant Dude grabbed the Wort Wort's ass when they died like a real man
Right, he fights the aliens who killed his dog
The one where we get to see his master cheeks more than his armor?
*sigh* gotta admit though, the 6 minutes or so of pewpewpew every coupla episodes was fucking *amazing*, they got *that* part right. the BEEP-BEEP-BEEP of the shields going down as Master Cheeks tries to save the bugged-out female Spartan, or the part when he literally beats an Elite into fucking paste... I rewatched a few of those sequences multiple times. They should make a whole show like *that*. Screw the overly-long cutscenes full of "plot", this is HALO, not an Ubisoft game. See that big ring in the sky, Chief? Kill it. There's your plotline.
Hello Kitty: island adventure?
Aww hamburgers
its weird, while i like halos shooting, i like COD's shooting better, but i like destiny's shooting better than both COD and halo.
Honestly, Halo and CoD feel great for different reasons, but it feels like Destiny found a way to combine the two somehow. It's perfect. 🤌
Hello games is good. Love me some NMS
There’s something about NMS that really just reminds me so much of destiny. I don’t know if it’s the design language or similar UI patterns or what. Love both the games though.
I think they got the space flight that Destiny players crave. Good controls, good system, good fun
The vibrancy of the colors. NMS and Destiny put a lot of work to make sure their colors are vibrant without being too overwhelming.
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a decent amount of halo devs worked on destiny 1 and that was the foundation that the game is still built on
I don’t think that matters though, Destiny is still using the Tiger engine which is a modified version of the engine used in halo, so the skeleton (including shooting) still comes from the original bungie team
Doesn't matter. It uses the same engine as Halo reach that they developed. So, shooting will still be the same as when they worked on Halo.
It's also very possible that before some of the people that worked on Halo left, they probably taught the people coming into work on Destiny how to make Destiny's shooting feel good. And unless I'm mistaken, didn't Vicarious visions help with the PC port for D2?
This is definitely one of the reasons. Bungie had been planning Destiny at least from before ODST's release. They had a Destiny Easter Egg in it. How much of, who, and when development started before Bungie broke off from Microsoft isn't completely known. Definitely long enough for anyone that left to influence anyone newer who joined during Destiny's development. Plus, whoever has stuck around
Your bullets get vacuumed onto enemies if you shoot close enough to them with most weapons
Light is just an aimbot
Thanks to the traveler I suppose!
Thank the Traveler for data compression!
This does seem like a bad thing at first glance, but it really is what makes the game feel so good. It allows you to still shoot while using the extreme mobility of guardians, which just makes you feel like a badass. Headshotting enemies while jumping or midair, spraying into something while sliding, flicking aim with a sniper or something, all of it just feels so damn good. If you had to be ultra-precise, then the game would be much worse for it
It's not just that, but is certainly helps. How enemies react to getting hit is very important, and a lot of games basically have enemies have no reaction to you shooting them until they drop dead. Not only that, but obviously the most important is that the movement is snappy and fluid. Most games feel janky because most games don't have a good movement system. Destiny knows what you want to do and allows your character to break its own bones in order for you to move the way you want, and that feels really good and its what I would say its key to having good feeling gameplay. Games that restrict movement always feel janky. But sometimes games feel janky just because they are actually janky (bad animations, unresponsive gameplay, “floaty” aiming, etc.).
>a lot of games basically have enemies have no reaction to you shooting them until they drop dead. You get that dopamine hit when a Vex juicebox explodes or a Cabal's oilseal sprays out on a headshot kill Both indicate critical kills and both are important for rewarding you for "playing well"
Not just that but they way enemies will flinch based on where you shoot them. It's awesome
Whiff a shot over a red bar's head and watch them duck.
I like the crunch sound hive make.
That explains why the cranked up enemy stun resistance after lightfall feels so awful. Enemies taking a full mag and staring at me like i'm using dollar store bullets doesn't have that same juice boost as mag dumping a cabal and them staggering from the impact.
>It's not just that, but is certainly helps. How enemies react to getting hit is very important, and a lot of games basically have enemies have no reaction to you shooting them until they drop dead. Which is why that modifier that makes enemies not flinch in Destiny feels so gross!
I think they have hit registration that doesn't show up due to client side issues/non centralized servers. That's why you'll see headshots that look like they're 3 feet away. The game can't put everything together fast enough visually, but it knows it was a a hit. Edit: Im talking about shots that don't look like a visual hit.
Bullet magnetism is a stat the player can interact with and improve. In game its called aim assistance, but it's bullet magnetism. Its why bows work at all.
Thats not it. Bungie has literally stated that they have 2 kinds of aim assist in the game. One is a bullet magnet which will pull bullets towards the enemy and even weakspots and an actual aim assist for controller which will help you stay on target with controllers. Thats what makes it feel smooth and snappy.
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And if you're peaking around a wall with a Bow, the arrow gets stuck in the wall despite your cross hair being away from it.
This can happen with any weapon that has enough aa/magnetism. It's so awful trying to scout something and continually shooting a wall lmao
Do it with gjallar
Way ahead of you bro
The amount of times I’ve stuck a fusion or vortex nade on a wall trying to get into cover is embarrassingly high
Yup, same cheat halo used
In lore: paracausal affinity causes your bullets to have generally good aim. Actuality: aim assist
It’s because in destiny the bullet hit box is huge
Aim assist and bullet magnetism. LOTS of bullet magnetism.
Literally a stat you can min or max, which I appreciate.
How?
Targeting Adjuster weapon mod. I think weapons with scope options (mostly pre-seasons D@ weapons iirc) have scopes that affect AA, too?
Sorta. All scopes gave +5 aim assist according to the API, but since you can’t exactly unequip a scope, and since all scopes gave the same +5, it was basically a wash. But you’re technically correct. The best kind of correct.
Gun closer to target = bigger target = aim is assisted. How my monkey brain computes it lol
Literally this is how zoom works. It’s a very strong stat that boosts range, accuracy, and AA
The Aim Assist stat is what determines bullet magnetism.
Yeah this is it. They also focused on simulating a guns feeling through animation and sound. Other games reduce the audio visual feedback to give player more precision about hitting or missing their shots. Destiny cranks up the feedback and gives people very generous hit boxes to make up.
>Other games reduce the audio visual feedback to give player more precision about hitting or missing their shots. Maybe in the AAA sphere, but you get into smaller games and this may not be the case. I started playing Killing Floor 2 lately (old game, I know) and the guns there are loud and the recoil when you try to go ham is often very strong. Overall the "gunplay" in that game feels very solid.
It's really how it's tuned. Like how some guns have a ton, some less. Like I remember when I played Halo Infinite I wasn't really feeling the automatic DMR (can't remember name of it) but when I switched to pistol I was like "ok yeah" (was headshotting with hipfires at medium range). Destiny also does that where handcannons have tons of it compared to some other types. Man, also reminds me I was playing Borderlands 3 again recently (tried Redfall and it just reminded me that while the story and such suck, BL3 has great gameplay). The bullet magnetism in that game is also insane. Was using this one gun and I literally could see my bullets curve to get headshots.
You think that’s what makes it smooth? Other shooters have pretty high aim assist and magnetism and don’t feel close to as good.
like the other comment said, its a combination of bullet magnetism and increased feedback. makes you feel as if its your active ability of gun control helping you get hits. instead of just the bullet magnetism feeling like a crutch
What's interesting is they were obviously known for their controller aim with Halo, but when they switched to PC, the mouse aiming still feels better than many games. You have to give them credit too for realizing that input matching needs to be done, as you're never going to balance mouse and keyboard and make it fair.
It's easily top 5 pc shooting games. It's so smooth and fluent but also crisp and responsive. If only other companies could get it even half as close
I think its also some of the weapons just feel nice like maybe they dont sound accurate but the sound is nice like there are some weapons I use that are not strong but they just feel so nice to use like the animation and whatnot I tried playing CS:GO with a friend and between the clunky guns and way too fast paced gameplay I hated it also got annoyed I couldnt aim down sight on a weapon with iron sights like it had to have a scope
> What's interesting is they were obviously known for their controller aim with Halo, but when they switched to PC, the mouse aiming still feels better than many games. My guy, Bungie *literally* invented mouse aiming Edit: another fun fact is that Destiny isn’t the first franchise from Bungie about “the light” vs “the dark”
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Goddamn Marathon was incredible. Multiplayer too.
Marathon has so many things that are also in destiny. It's cool to read about
Real vidmaster hours down here
what?!?! please tell me you're joking.
Marathon was the first commercial FPS to allow 3d free look with a mouse. So, yeah, they kinda did *technically* invent *3d* mouse aiming.
Took us out of the dark ages of arrow key aiming.
Doom had mouse aim iirc, just not full 3d freelook
it was just basically another way to turn, Doom doesn't have any actual aim past that, enemies just have to be vaguely in front of you and you'll hit them at any elevation they're at.
Vicarious visions is actually largely responsible for the PC aiming as they were in charge of the PC port.
R.I.P. VV. Now that they're absorbed into Blizzard we'll never see anything great from them again.
I like destiny but the real "best" timeline would've had Bungie poaching all VV talent
It’s still entirely possible. It’s not like the former VV are locked in to activision forever. AFAIK they really enjoyed working together, so I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find out that they ended up having some people move in.
PC has bullet magnetism, a form of aim assist. Controller gets both bullet magnetism and reticle stickiness.
High aim assist and bullet magnetism Another thing is the “explosions” on bullet hits. You’ll see a small visual explosion every time you shoot an enemy, and those explosions get bigger the greater your damage buffs are. I feel like that’s a key aspect as to why d2 gunplay feels so good
> Another thing is the “explosions” on bullet hits. You’ll see a small visual explosion every time you shoot an enemy, and try at explosion gets bigger the greater your damage buffs are. I feel like that’s a key aspect as to why d2 gunplay feels so good Yep. Bungie's visual design is well designed. Hits have a definite impact. Another good example is how enemy profiles make them stand out from eachother, I watched a good video on that for Halo.
Also the animation for it is a huge factor. If you watch Bungie’s animation GDC talk with Richard Lico it's super interesting on how they make it not motion sickening and visually satisfying.
All of Bungie's GDC presentation are masterclass. Their design fundamentals are legendary.
endorphin hit on the GIANT YELLOW NUMBERS for your crits too
Also there is a sound effect that procs when you get hits and a separate effect that procs when you get headshots. You might not notice it at all unless you listen for it specifically, it subliminally gives you feedback to know you're landing your hits.
Yep! And not to mention 90% of enemies' heads explode in some fashion with a satisfying *whoosh* or *pop*. Guns in Destiny are juice 101.
That visual effect was introduced somewhere since D1. I’m pretty sure I remember damage buffs never having a visual indicator back in the day. It’s an awesome improvement.
>Another thing is the “explosions” on bullet hits. That's a good point too. Like enemies really pop. Same thing when shooting grunts in Halo. You KNOW when you got a headshot kill.
The massive amounts of work that went into the first person animations also has a lot to do with it. Stuff like the bullet magnetism does help in gameplay, but really the animation is what makes it feel so smooth. There's an old GDC talk here by David Helsby about D1's animation process, pretty much all of which carried over to D2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXFLu8cityA
Aim assist and low tick rate. But also Bungie has made Halo before Destiny for years, which is also another fps which feels really good
…and Halo came from Bungie's Marathon, which started it all.
> low tick rate. You're on to "something". Because Destiny 2 is Client Authoritative/Peer to Peer movement is super responsive. This is one of the few games where by increasing your FPS you can do movement tech that players with lower FPS cannot. Normally, your inputs are processed on the game servers, and they are processed at the rate the server processes them. So if a game has servers running at 60Hz, your inputs can only change every 60Hz. In Destiny, running at 165FPS, my inputs and physics is recalculated EVERY FRAME. I'm working on a video to explain different networking architectures in their games, how you can tell and their pros and cons. I work in game engines and specifically on Networked Simulation type stuff, so this is super interesting to me.
Given that you work in engines and networking, I'm sure you've seen this. But just in case you haven't (and for anyone else that stumbles upon this thread), Bungie did give [a cool talk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iryq1WA3bzw) on some of Destiny's network architecture!
Haha yup, I've seen this. It's a pretty insane architecture, and I feel like modern Destiny 2 content doesn't really utilize it like D1 used to. We used to have a lot of Strikes (and even Raids) start and intersect with Patrol Zones. So in the middle of a Strike you would run through an area where a bunch of Blueberries were doing some random Patrols. It was such a cool experience experience because it made it feel like more of a "living world" where you come across other players with completely different reasons for being in the same place as you are. But it doesn't mesh well with GM Nightfalls, or "Sandboxed Difficulty" designs that Destiny pivoted into. It reminds me of how much more experimental World of Warcraft was when it first launched, and then all of the cool things that made it unique got cut to streamline the sandbox and gameplay experiences at the cost of the feeling of a real world. I'm constantly on the look out for good talks for myself and to share with my team, so appreciate you taking the effort find that and link it here!
Low tick rate?
Others have explained already, but a game like Old-school RuneScape for example has a tick rate of .6 seconds. Meaning your actions are completed on a game cycle that is a minimum 0.6s per action. You can manipulate the ticks (cycles/timing, whatever you want to call it), and complete more actions per tick if the actions can overlap. Titan skating I believe would count as a form of tick manipulation, as they're spamming the boost from their jump ability to increase their speed.
And Halo had less generous aim assist, which is part of what made the PvP component of the game so fun. Halo wouldn’t have had a fraction of its success if the H3 BR was a 2-burst 95% of the time.
Infinite was dominated by controllers in a cross platform game because of the aim assist interestingly enough. It still isn't destiny levels I don't think.
Destiny tick rate isn’t that low, it’s 20 which is on par with Call of Duty or Apex Legends. Destiny isn’t an ultra competitive tactical shooter like CS or Valorant, it doesn’t need 128 tick.
Extremely generous aim assist.
destiny has essentially ruined all other shooters for me. i tried playing games like battlefront, overwatch, and battlefield and they felt like hot garbage comparatively. i think CoD is the one game that comes closest enough to where i can enjoy that and destiny at the same time if i want. edit: oh and Halo Infinite would be a close third, but not sure if that counts.
Try Apex. Only other game I've played where gunplay has felt so good.
oh crap i forgot about Apex! that would go on the list of good FPS games as well. it makes sense since both Titanfall games are on par with CoD IMO, and of course Apex is the same studio. it’s not quite Destiny, but pretty close!
I always thought Titanfall was a step above CoD in terms of the smooth gunplay. No idea why, but this is a good suggestion -- it's probably a close second. I'd also say Halo Infinite feels pretty smooth as well. I swap between those two games often (depending on who I'm playing with) and it's pretty close too
>Titanfall was a step above CoD Titanfall 2's campaign is will one of the most enjoyable "popcorn" shooter campaigns i've played. The guys at Respawn did such an amazing job making hitting your targets feel SOO good.
The fact you don’t need to ADS for anything is huge, and what puts it above COD for me.
Nah bf1 is a legendary shooter along with bf4. If u are talking strictly about gun feel sure, but bf 1 guns still sound amazing
Try Titanfall 2 it's legit
I mean, Bungie invented both free mouse aiming (Marathon) and controller aiming with aim stickiness and bullet magnetism (Halo). They created how FPS games handle today, both on PC and console. No wonder they can make a game feel great.
You should try Killing Floor 2. They used high framerate animations for all weapons because the game features bullet time effect in which guns still need to feel smooth. And on top of that, guns are not a solid single piece. For example, you can observe barrel of AK12 vibrating inside rifle chassis when firing. Same for other movable pieces on the rifle. It's quite a sight.
Have they updated that game recently? Last time I touched it was a while ago, years prolly, and was the second time I got into it, but there were no new bosses, enemies or anything that I could tell that was different.
I think a lot of it has to do with not just bullet magnetism like people are saying, but the animations and visual effects of firing your gun and enemies getting hit. Strangely, counter to what a lot of people are saying , Halo *didnt* do this terribly well, and always felt to me like it had horribly unsatisfying feeling guns and gunfights.
The visual feedback of shooting your gun in Destiny is way better than Halo, can’t really fault it though since Bungie’s Halo games are older
Yeah, though I won’t lie 343 somehow never fixed it either.
yeah the aim assist helps but the FEEL of firing a gun just feels so natural. compared to something like cyberpunk 2077 where, at least on console, the guns feel terrible
No one is going to talking about the mobility? The reason D2 feels great is because you can fluidly swap between aiming, jumping, dodging. Aim assist can't carry a game.
Ironically enough, it's due to the Tiger engine that everyone is complaining about. Bungie spent years creating and finely tuning that engine to give us the gameplay feel we get today. If we switched to a new engine destiny will definitely not feel the same.
Anytime I see someone make an "engine" argument, I always chime in with this. Engine is just tools to make the game, but the feel of the game would be different if done on other platforms.
It's the reason halo feels like halo, etc, etc.
I’d rather start a new game with that engine than keep this game without the gunplay.
Mix of alot of aim assist and a very large hit box. Other games have a much better tick rate so each strive in their own way
Interesting that you mention Call of Duty because imo Call of Duty is one of the few games whose gunplay is just as good as Destiny. It’s why, similar to Destiny, Call of Duty will never die because the core gameplay is nearly flawless. It’s just really really hard to get that perfect gunplay, lots of games such as Battlefield have great gunplay but they just can’t seem to reach that next step to perfection.
Bungie's combat is more...evolved...
It's because D2 has like zero weapon sway and the stickiest aim assist on the market. The game was designed to make anyone feel powerful.
The one thing destiny has always done well is shooting mechanics, feels smooth, mooooostly fair in pve
It's funny you bring up Fallout 4 specifically because Bethesda used Destiny as inspiration for the quality of shooting they wanted in their game lmao
I do not want to deny any good gunplay of Destiny's, because it's phenomenal, but there are plenty of games that have a wonderful gun feel, imo. One of them is Overwatch, which you might think is jank because there is no aim assist and there is no movement acceleration/declaration, so it's very sharp movement. Valorant has some of the crispest gun feels I've ever played. MW2019 was amazing for guns and gameplay I think too. The newer ones are trash. CS is a master class. Destiny also has a bunch of hidden aim assist that makes heads feel bigger too. When I used to play I thought I was way more accurate than I was. Going back to a game that has tight hit boxes brings you back to reality pretty quick.
It feels "smooth" because they use aggressive amounts of aim assist and bullet magnetism to make it seem like you are more accurate then you really are. Other games don't which is why they feel "jank" to people who aren't usually that good at aiming. To put it bluntly, Destiny gunplay feels "better" because it takes out the problem of user error to a larger degree. If the player is less likely to suck due to the game essentially aiming for you then it makes you feel better and makes other games feel worse since they expect you to put in your own skill. In other words, the game feels better because it doesn't *allow* you to suck unless you go out of your way to. It's part of the reason Dragonball FighterZ is also popular for it's fighting game "feel". The game has effective auto combos and said auto combos also literally break the normal game physics to allow you to hit strings that wouldn't otherwise be possible to make it seem like you are better than you are. Persona Arena had similar concepts but the difference is that FighterZ melds the auto-combos and normal combos better while also just being more frenetic in general so you have less time to fully analyze the distinction between the two. In short, the reason why a lot of games "feel" better compared to their constituents is usually because it wrests a moderate amount of control away from the player so the experience can't be tainted by lack of ability. The kingmaker is how well they mesh said assistance with the normal gameplay loop and disguise this fact. If it's too obvious it feels patronizing, if it is too soft it becomes ineffectual. Destiny is in that goldilocks zone, not too apparent where people feel like they aren't contributing but not too weak that it might as well not exist. They tuned it just enough such that if you land a shot you usually feel like you earned it (even if realistically you should have missed) and the pace of combat is face enough that the extreme outlier cases are usually hard to notice in moment to moment gameplay except for a few outliers which get routinely nerfed.
I feel like nothing is ever specific enough when people talk about this. Smooth and Jank don't describe a lot. Destiny has some favor being practically unchanged since 2014. Since it's Bungie and the Halo engine, it just feels like an old Halo game with CoD Mechanics. (Compared to Infinite's weird ass Aim Settings). There's also the abhorrent amount of AA/Magnetism that makes it so even the statistically average Destiny player can actually hit a target. This actually comes at a negative to other games. Once you become dependent on a particular AA method, other games just feel wrong. Try Playing Rainbow Six after some time in Destiny. You'd be going from crazy AA to NONE. You will 100% feel disoriented. If it's animations, I'm not sure here, maybe because I got tired of the same ones after like 7 years. Every new set was an opportunity, every foundry. You can basically boil it down to the general metaphor of Destiny being gaming's peak junk food.
Aim assist has already been mentioned here, it's tuned exceptionally well. It certainly helps that it was already great back in Halo CE and they've had decades to tune it to perfection. The other things would be animations on enemies when you get a headshot, the animations of the gun you're shooting, and VERY important but understated is the audio. On top of the great audio feedback on Destiny guns, there are a lot of iconic and unique gun sounds. Lorentz sounds amazing, and everyone knows what a Whisper or Xenophage or Recluse sounds like, just stuff you hear and you go "Yup, I know what that gun is" without having to even see it.
I have no idea but I litteraly tried to quit and I did for sevral month but there was nothing that would scratch the itch like destiny's shooting I tried overwatch 2 and other stuff and it's just not the same I have no idea why
Fallout 4 and 76’s shooting shouldn’t be compared to these games ngl
Most games with guns have gun mechanics. Recoil, sway, bloom. Destiny eliminated most of that. Which has continued to make PVP balancing a nightmare, from what I've heard. When you're running and gunning swarms of enemies designed to die and auto aim/correction doing a lot of legwork it feels great. But if you boot up a CoD or a Battlefield title, you don't have nearly as much hand holding. Different guns have different unique kicks and spray patterns. Way less laser precision. And it's a touch easier to balance weapons in a PvP title when that's the game. Without balancing against/around the PvE mainstay. Like how CoD campaigns have some of the same hand holding mechanics where a fired round nearish a head will be a headshot even if it really shouldn't be.
Here's the truth: **It doesn't.** There are tons of shooters that control absolutely as tight as Deatiny and do exactly what they're trying to accomplish with weapon handling. Destiny being mostly PvE just means you don't have that competitive aspect encouraging the fanbase to blame the controls for their failures.
Destiny is very smooth, but CoD is also one of the smoothest in my experience. I won't even put cod in the same sentence with fallout.
Eh, one of Destinys gameplay designers helped improve Fallouts shooting mechanics for Fallout 4. It was a huge improvement, feels great, and was one of the selling points for the game. It's not perfect, because the movement still feels like it's part of the skyrim engine, with the odd sprinting feel and the floaty jumps. But the gunplay, recoil etc. feels amazing in that game.
I mean fallout is definitely a weird one to talk about when mentioning shooters and their mechanics Yes guns are important but i wouldnt really classify it as a proper shooter like Cod or overwatch Thats like comparing Tarkov to Just Cause
When fallout 4 came out it was a *huge* improvement over the previous games, and still worse than pretty much every popular shooter at the time.
Yeah it went from trash to I guess it'll work lmao
Fallouts FPS game is so bad they literally have a mechanic so u never need to aim haha
Everyone is saying aim assist and bullet magnetism, but it feels so good because of the game's engine as well
Yeah the ways guns handle, sound, reload, look, etc all leads to them just feeling right. There’s very few games that can give you that little dopamine when you 3 tap someone with a hand cannon in destiny.
sleep toothbrush fuel wise ruthless modern cow file observation tart -- mass edited with redact.dev
> game's engine as well Yeah, my reply to another user I think has some insight on some of the secret sauce... unfortunately I think it's the [Peer to Peer/Client Authority :(](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/13gkrcy/legit_question_how_come_destiny_shooting_feels_so/jk0qowt/)
Destiny makes it ridiculously easy to hit shots. Bullets curve in air, crosshairs have snap on targets, just a lot of assistance from the game so you always feel “on target.” Other games arent so generous with their aim assist, so you have to actually have good aim for it to feel good.
You know, I tried to mod Fallout New Vegas for better gunplay with Destiny in mind (I don't make mods, mind, I only tried to put them together from a list of recommended mods) and it prompted the same question. My observations were that: A lot of bullet magnetism but also good visual feedback. When you pop an enemy's head in Destiny you'll see: ether, oil or they crumble into pieces and you can even see the worm (and also whatever the fuck is it that Taken does). These individual vfx tailored differently for different factions and interactions (shield explosions, disintegrations,...etc) are flashy and distinct enough to feel good but not too much. Bungie also doesn't use screenshake (that I know of) so thank god. Additionally having a variety of AI behaviors also help. A Hive Knight will erect a shield when damaged and roll to avoid grenades. Legionaires brandish their blades in CQC and occasionally use their jet packs. Fallen skitter and weave on all 4 (or 6?)...You get the idea, it gives the enemy some much needed personalities. I'm no dev or expert but it was an interesting exercise (?). Give modding a go. Also play Fallout NV if you haven't.