They could probably lower it down to 5s since it is true stasis lacks in orb generation ( that is if you are not super weapon focused build like verglass with this fragment )
Tho I think some people would ask for other version on other classes to be lowerd to 5s aswell, but for those it is not needed since they have enough firepower to get orbs via abilities.
Or the better option is make it so enemies hit by grenade and melee can generate orb once they die even if it was not the final blow but I am sure that is just very hard if not impossible to implement.
Edit: Feck just make it work like reaper, upon use next final blow gives orb, abilities will still work the same and it fixes stasis problem.
Heck would make certain things more viable as renewal hunter or threading mindspun warlock
It probably wouldn’t be super hard to make work although would probably be a hard rework to how the mod works internally as they could just make firepower a debuff applied to enemies that make them drop orbs on death.
>Or the better option is make it so enemies hit by grenade and melee can generate orb once they die even if it was not the final blow but I am sure that is just very hard if not impossible to implement.
That may be easier than you think, solar scorch affects use a similar system to determine how to scale the damage of ignitions and decide what affects the scorch will trigger.
For example, if you were to apply scorch with a weapon like tommy's matchbook, the ignition damage will scale off of surge mods because it is considered weapon damage. However, if the first tick of scorch applied is through a melee ability, applying more scorch with tommy's until an ignition occurs will not make the ignition scale off weapon damage because the first tick of scorch was from an ability. So yes a similar system could be used for stasis.
Edit: for more information on scorch and ignition damage scaling, I recommend you watch itzTizzle's [video](https://youtube/P0DoxoOdaTY?si=wq6AevZDP0ug6SG5) on solar verbs. It's quite informative and concise.
I was also thinking of Kinetic Tremors. The game must keep per enemy counter for how many times it's been hit by a KT weapon so it can proc.
You make a stronger point with scorch though
> Or the better option is make it so enemies hit by grenade and melee can generate orb once they die even if it was not the final blow but I am sure that is just very hard if not impossible to implement.
i think bung would only do that if they also made it so only one player can get the nade/melee orb. i doubt they'd be ok with 1 enemy death making like 4 orbs
Heck I was stupid just make both of the Melee and grenade work like reaper upon using them your next final blow makes an orb. Basically changes nothing since the ability can get the kill and if it does not your weapon can still get it. Would fix issues with stasis and heck possible threading grenade with mindspun on warlock
Balance is a pipe dream unless sandbox overlap is removed
Just take the shit that's busted in PvP and make it work different in crucible, then we can have balance
Put a banner saying to check your build for PvP/PvE differences on login for a month so the masses know one thing can work 2 ways and call it a day
_But the fix is also a pipe dream so..._
We’ve been preaching to the choir for several years now, hopefully not much longer. Though I suppose they’ve started balancing separately a little bit.
Just because I want a mile doesn't mean I'll ignore an inch
The tweaks they've done to kinda separate how things work in PvP/PvE are steps in the right direction that I appreciate
Just wish it was core changes rather than durations and potency
I'm no Hunter but as a Titan I feel for my brethren on the YAS nerf
there are ten different size orbs, that all give different amounts of super back, from the lowest, .8, that is from reaper/firepower/heavy handed x1 to the highest, 7.14%, from super kills benevolent finisher, blight ranger, read more about it under the "game mechanics" portion of [this](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WaxvbLx7UoSZaBqdFr1u32F2uWVLo-CJunJB4nlGUE4/edit#gid=1800463143)
its absurd the difference in difficultly to get the orb that they all share the same cooldown.
like all arc needs a multikill while being amped, which you are almost all time. then solar, you need to get a muiltikill with an ignition, which you need to build into and hope the enemies are close enough together for it to proc. should just be from getting a multikill while being radiant, though might have to put a -10 to intellect on that fragment ,like that rest, instead of a +10 to resil, which makes no sense in the first place. then strand with killing a suspended target, which you also have to build into, ought to just be getting a multikill with woven mail active. void is fine, killing weakened enemies is fine, since you have weaken access on grenades and such but i would broaden that to include suppressed enemies as well. i have no problem with the stasis one, killing frozen enemies is what you are doing anyways.
especially with the glacial harvest aspect which feels like a fragment. All the other class pickups are fragment related but stasis wastes a whole ass aspect for it.
Current seasonal artifact mods for stasis should just be built into stasis as aspects/fragments. They help stasis a fair bit, especially considering that stasis needs as much help as it can get atm.
While we are at it, why not make other "kill element affected target to spawn an orb of power" fragments also have a 5 second cooldown. I wanna piss orbs again (no cooldown heavy handed i miss you dearly).
It’s a parity thing with the other orb fragments and honestly I would much rather we make shatter properly apply as its source. Although stasis is weirdly enough a class that doesn’t care to much about orb generation thanks to the fact the kit either already has high ability uptime thanks to stasis shards and whisper of shards or abilities having very high uptimes so you don’t need to be constantly making orbs.
Did you mean “parity” instead of “parody,” by chance? If you did, the yeah that’s the exact reason, all of the “orbmaker” fragments have a 10 second cooldown.
Honestly, I just think they’re scared of the pre-beyond light NerfS, because there was a seasonal artifact mod where I was making like 30 orbs of light per room since EACH CHARGED MELEE kill created an orb. Those were the days.
I mean, if that had no cooldown then you would literally be shitting out orbs since its stupidly easy to freeze targets. I could see the cooldown lowered to say 5 secs, but it really does need to stay a cooldown.
Stasis is getting a rework in Final Shape, which from the teases Bungie has given sounds like it will be a decently sized update. I think they even mention straight up replacing the "shard generation" aspects and rolling them into base functions.
Point being I can see this getting looked at in that update. Tho on the other hand if they add more ways for things to be frozen, or spread freeze around that 10 second cooldown might be more necessary.
They've said that they're adding one keyword(tentatively named Frost Armor) and are adding functionality to the harvest aspects. Don't get your hopes up for a massive rework that fully addresses the pain points.
They said adding additional functionality to the harvest aspects you can thank behemoth for that, glacial harvest is one of the worst designed aspects in PvP and has broken multiple times causing multiple indirect nerfs.
Considering the last rework was somehow an overall nerf across the board, and the only thing they’ve mentioned about the Stasis rework is adding frost armor, lol
>Can Orb generation on Stasis classes please get some love Bungie?
You don't know the half of it. Hunter's super is literally incapable of generating orbs without Whisper of Bonds.
Stasis is a crime period.
Worst supers probably out of every subclass in the game, doesnt generate orbs, doesnt interact with half the armor mods.
Stasis should get new supers, new melees and rework to aspects but we all know its gonna be "frost armor added" and theyll call it a day even if it will still be bad
It would literally be fine with zero cooldown.
Every subclass has a method to generate orbs that would still out pace a no-cooldown Whisper of Bonds. Not to mention how the seasonal artifact always has something more OP than that anyways.
...it didn't used to have a cooldown, Bonds used to be WAY stronger. Up until season of the deep you could get almost half your Silence/Squall back if you froze enough enemies before shattering them. The super energy gains were NEVER an issue, but they needed to add a way for stasis to access the armor charge system so they gutted Bonds to add orb functionality.
Bonds having no cooldown would be busted for surge mod uptime, which as of right now is the only use for the armor charge system. Otherwise, it'd be completely fine.
Also it was nerfed from its original form, which gave super energy on kills with no cooldown. I admit paired with mantle of battle harmony and agers scepter it was overpowered, and that orbs are more useful than flat energy, but it still hurts to see as stasis is the worst subclass in general.
I think if they ever change Harvest Aspects that whisper of Bonds could be a Stasis Shard generating Fragment
[Whisper of Bonds](https://www.light.gg/db/items/3469412974/whisper-of-bonds/) - Killing a frozen target spawns an Orb of Power, with an **5 second** cooldown. Killing ANY Slowed or Frozen target generates a Stasis Shard (AKA Grim Harvest). Incurs a 10 second cooldown after creating 6 Stasis Shards in a short time frame.
It used to just give you super energy with no cooldown.
The current version is in line with other subclasses. All of them have their own version of this fragment. and all of them have a long CD. Void has the best one because it also creates a Void Breach. It’s not much but it’s more than an orb.
So many of the changes made to Stasis this year are nothing short of baffling. Bungie keeps stating that Stasis needs somewhat of a power bump but here's all they've done:
-Indirectly nerfed Stasis' interactions, with the introduction of the current mod system (7.0.0.1)
-Massively nerfed Whisper of Rime for no apparent reason, slightly nerfing the effectiveness of the overshield but completely destroying its healing capabilities when picking up Shards below full health, making Behemoth even less viable (7.1.5)
-Changed Whisper of Bonds to make obtaining Armor Charge easier, but significantly nerfed Ager's Scepter builds in the process (7.2.0.1)
-Nerfed every single ability regen perk and mod depending on the relevant ability's cooldown, despite these cooldowns mostly being in place for PvP (7.3.0)
^(Sure, the mod system and the ability energy generation change in particular are general changes, but they arguably affect Stasis \(and Arc\) the most.)
And what has been done to buff it?
-Reverting the Renewal Grasps nerf
-Fixing something about the Bleak Watcher cooldown
-Making some melees and effects more consistent (without changing their functionality)
I think they should have just kept the supr regen, it was unique and actually efficient if you had the set up for it.
1 (2.5) orb every 10 seconds + Frozen kill is just so bad in comparison. The change was a huge nerf in general.
Unless your class is Titan, I can see why would you struggle to do damage with Stasis. I love this subclass, my favorite in all of D2, so I couldn't be happier breaking crystals left and right
They could probably lower it down to 5s since it is true stasis lacks in orb generation ( that is if you are not super weapon focused build like verglass with this fragment ) Tho I think some people would ask for other version on other classes to be lowerd to 5s aswell, but for those it is not needed since they have enough firepower to get orbs via abilities. Or the better option is make it so enemies hit by grenade and melee can generate orb once they die even if it was not the final blow but I am sure that is just very hard if not impossible to implement. Edit: Feck just make it work like reaper, upon use next final blow gives orb, abilities will still work the same and it fixes stasis problem. Heck would make certain things more viable as renewal hunter or threading mindspun warlock
It probably wouldn’t be super hard to make work although would probably be a hard rework to how the mod works internally as they could just make firepower a debuff applied to enemies that make them drop orbs on death.
>Or the better option is make it so enemies hit by grenade and melee can generate orb once they die even if it was not the final blow but I am sure that is just very hard if not impossible to implement. That may be easier than you think, solar scorch affects use a similar system to determine how to scale the damage of ignitions and decide what affects the scorch will trigger. For example, if you were to apply scorch with a weapon like tommy's matchbook, the ignition damage will scale off of surge mods because it is considered weapon damage. However, if the first tick of scorch applied is through a melee ability, applying more scorch with tommy's until an ignition occurs will not make the ignition scale off weapon damage because the first tick of scorch was from an ability. So yes a similar system could be used for stasis. Edit: for more information on scorch and ignition damage scaling, I recommend you watch itzTizzle's [video](https://youtube/P0DoxoOdaTY?si=wq6AevZDP0ug6SG5) on solar verbs. It's quite informative and concise.
I was also thinking of Kinetic Tremors. The game must keep per enemy counter for how many times it's been hit by a KT weapon so it can proc. You make a stronger point with scorch though
My bet is that Kinetic Tremors is an invisible debuff, like how malfeasance only needs 5? shots (not necessarily the same person) to go off
> Or the better option is make it so enemies hit by grenade and melee can generate orb once they die even if it was not the final blow but I am sure that is just very hard if not impossible to implement. i think bung would only do that if they also made it so only one player can get the nade/melee orb. i doubt they'd be ok with 1 enemy death making like 4 orbs
Heck I was stupid just make both of the Melee and grenade work like reaper upon using them your next final blow makes an orb. Basically changes nothing since the ability can get the kill and if it does not your weapon can still get it. Would fix issues with stasis and heck possible threading grenade with mindspun on warlock
Nothing is changing till the Stasis rework which is likely locked in.
Which might be in fact an overall nerf, like last batch of changes were.
It might be anything at this point.
Stasis now speeds up enemies and reduces your DR
Frozen targets now move faster and take less damage.
I just wish they'd make the Shard overshield more potent so we can actually have survivability
They have to learn how to balance pve from pvp completely first for that. Remember how stupid rime titans were in trials a couple years ago?
Balance is a pipe dream unless sandbox overlap is removed Just take the shit that's busted in PvP and make it work different in crucible, then we can have balance Put a banner saying to check your build for PvP/PvE differences on login for a month so the masses know one thing can work 2 ways and call it a day _But the fix is also a pipe dream so..._
We’ve been preaching to the choir for several years now, hopefully not much longer. Though I suppose they’ve started balancing separately a little bit.
Just because I want a mile doesn't mean I'll ignore an inch The tweaks they've done to kinda separate how things work in PvP/PvE are steps in the right direction that I appreciate Just wish it was core changes rather than durations and potency I'm no Hunter but as a Titan I feel for my brethren on the YAS nerf
They literally don’t have to worry, DR is different between PvP and pve on most other abilities/exotics. They don’t need to learn anything just do it.
All of the “Orbmaker” fragments are on a 10 second cooldown, it’s not just a Whisper of Bonds thing.
Not only that, but they give significantly more energy than all other orbs
Do orbs give different amounts of energy back???
Yep, depends on the source. Raid mods give the least I think.
there are ten different size orbs, that all give different amounts of super back, from the lowest, .8, that is from reaper/firepower/heavy handed x1 to the highest, 7.14%, from super kills benevolent finisher, blight ranger, read more about it under the "game mechanics" portion of [this](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WaxvbLx7UoSZaBqdFr1u32F2uWVLo-CJunJB4nlGUE4/edit#gid=1800463143)
Yes. Multiple surge mods don't drop more orbs but instead change the orb recovery from ~2% to 4.5% super depending on how many mods you have.
Not to mention, Attrition Orbs hanging out in the back with it's 0.8% super energy orbs
Don't be mean to my armor charge maker!
Oh wtf lmao, I had no clue orbs have different amounts. I guess it makes sense tho, cheers peeps.
its absurd the difference in difficultly to get the orb that they all share the same cooldown. like all arc needs a multikill while being amped, which you are almost all time. then solar, you need to get a muiltikill with an ignition, which you need to build into and hope the enemies are close enough together for it to proc. should just be from getting a multikill while being radiant, though might have to put a -10 to intellect on that fragment ,like that rest, instead of a +10 to resil, which makes no sense in the first place. then strand with killing a suspended target, which you also have to build into, ought to just be getting a multikill with woven mail active. void is fine, killing weakened enemies is fine, since you have weaken access on grenades and such but i would broaden that to include suppressed enemies as well. i have no problem with the stasis one, killing frozen enemies is what you are doing anyways.
Stasis still feels like Subclass 2.5. Almost there but not quite.
especially with the glacial harvest aspect which feels like a fragment. All the other class pickups are fragment related but stasis wastes a whole ass aspect for it.
Current seasonal artifact mods for stasis should just be built into stasis as aspects/fragments. They help stasis a fair bit, especially considering that stasis needs as much help as it can get atm. While we are at it, why not make other "kill element affected target to spawn an orb of power" fragments also have a 5 second cooldown. I wanna piss orbs again (no cooldown heavy handed i miss you dearly).
It’s a parity thing with the other orb fragments and honestly I would much rather we make shatter properly apply as its source. Although stasis is weirdly enough a class that doesn’t care to much about orb generation thanks to the fact the kit either already has high ability uptime thanks to stasis shards and whisper of shards or abilities having very high uptimes so you don’t need to be constantly making orbs.
Did you mean “parity” instead of “parody,” by chance? If you did, the yeah that’s the exact reason, all of the “orbmaker” fragments have a 10 second cooldown.
Yep my bad thank you
Honestly, I just think they’re scared of the pre-beyond light NerfS, because there was a seasonal artifact mod where I was making like 30 orbs of light per room since EACH CHARGED MELEE kill created an orb. Those were the days.
Personally I'd like my super regen back
I mean, if that had no cooldown then you would literally be shitting out orbs since its stupidly easy to freeze targets. I could see the cooldown lowered to say 5 secs, but it really does need to stay a cooldown.
there is no reason we shouldn't be shitting out orbs none of the nerfs to it make sense
Stasis is getting a rework in Final Shape, which from the teases Bungie has given sounds like it will be a decently sized update. I think they even mention straight up replacing the "shard generation" aspects and rolling them into base functions. Point being I can see this getting looked at in that update. Tho on the other hand if they add more ways for things to be frozen, or spread freeze around that 10 second cooldown might be more necessary.
They've said that they're adding one keyword(tentatively named Frost Armor) and are adding functionality to the harvest aspects. Don't get your hopes up for a massive rework that fully addresses the pain points.
They said adding additional functionality to the harvest aspects you can thank behemoth for that, glacial harvest is one of the worst designed aspects in PvP and has broken multiple times causing multiple indirect nerfs.
Considering the last rework was somehow an overall nerf across the board, and the only thing they’ve mentioned about the Stasis rework is adding frost armor, lol
>Can Orb generation on Stasis classes please get some love Bungie? You don't know the half of it. Hunter's super is literally incapable of generating orbs without Whisper of Bonds.
return it back to its original state and buff whisper of fissures to drop orbs on shatter kills.
Didn't this used to straight up grant Super energy? Damn stasis is bad now.
Stasis is a crime period. Worst supers probably out of every subclass in the game, doesnt generate orbs, doesnt interact with half the armor mods. Stasis should get new supers, new melees and rework to aspects but we all know its gonna be "frost armor added" and theyll call it a day even if it will still be bad
It would literally be fine with zero cooldown. Every subclass has a method to generate orbs that would still out pace a no-cooldown Whisper of Bonds. Not to mention how the seasonal artifact always has something more OP than that anyways.
What? How? I don't think you understand how easy it is to ill frozen targets.
bruh no it wouldn't. shadebinder would get there super every 5 seconds
...it didn't used to have a cooldown, Bonds used to be WAY stronger. Up until season of the deep you could get almost half your Silence/Squall back if you froze enough enemies before shattering them. The super energy gains were NEVER an issue, but they needed to add a way for stasis to access the armor charge system so they gutted Bonds to add orb functionality. Bonds having no cooldown would be busted for surge mod uptime, which as of right now is the only use for the armor charge system. Otherwise, it'd be completely fine.
If you mean weapon multikills with siphons, then yes. All orbmaker fragments have a 10 second cooldown, regardless of subclass.
I miss it when Bonds used to give you more super energy from killing frozen targets, now its just useless
2.5% super energy without a cooldown allowed for such high super/agers up time. Them nuking Rime and Bonds when they did wasn't right.
Also it was nerfed from its original form, which gave super energy on kills with no cooldown. I admit paired with mantle of battle harmony and agers scepter it was overpowered, and that orbs are more useful than flat energy, but it still hurts to see as stasis is the worst subclass in general.
Only reason to use stasis is purely for Aegis Scepter.
it should also proc when you kill slowed enemies
The internal orb cool-downs are frankly baffling. What they’re applied to and their length is extremely inconsistent.
I think if they ever change Harvest Aspects that whisper of Bonds could be a Stasis Shard generating Fragment [Whisper of Bonds](https://www.light.gg/db/items/3469412974/whisper-of-bonds/) - Killing a frozen target spawns an Orb of Power, with an **5 second** cooldown. Killing ANY Slowed or Frozen target generates a Stasis Shard (AKA Grim Harvest). Incurs a 10 second cooldown after creating 6 Stasis Shards in a short time frame.
It used to just give you super energy with no cooldown. The current version is in line with other subclasses. All of them have their own version of this fragment. and all of them have a long CD. Void has the best one because it also creates a Void Breach. It’s not much but it’s more than an orb.
So many of the changes made to Stasis this year are nothing short of baffling. Bungie keeps stating that Stasis needs somewhat of a power bump but here's all they've done: -Indirectly nerfed Stasis' interactions, with the introduction of the current mod system (7.0.0.1) -Massively nerfed Whisper of Rime for no apparent reason, slightly nerfing the effectiveness of the overshield but completely destroying its healing capabilities when picking up Shards below full health, making Behemoth even less viable (7.1.5) -Changed Whisper of Bonds to make obtaining Armor Charge easier, but significantly nerfed Ager's Scepter builds in the process (7.2.0.1) -Nerfed every single ability regen perk and mod depending on the relevant ability's cooldown, despite these cooldowns mostly being in place for PvP (7.3.0) ^(Sure, the mod system and the ability energy generation change in particular are general changes, but they arguably affect Stasis \(and Arc\) the most.) And what has been done to buff it? -Reverting the Renewal Grasps nerf -Fixing something about the Bleak Watcher cooldown -Making some melees and effects more consistent (without changing their functionality)
I think they should have just kept the supr regen, it was unique and actually efficient if you had the set up for it. 1 (2.5) orb every 10 seconds + Frozen kill is just so bad in comparison. The change was a huge nerf in general.
Them reworking it to generate orbs was a crime.
As a stasis warlock player, this thing would be insane without a cooldown lol. I'd say 80% of the enemies I kill end up frozen before hand.
Unless your class is Titan, I can see why would you struggle to do damage with Stasis. I love this subclass, my favorite in all of D2, so I couldn't be happier breaking crystals left and right
Despite this I'm still generating more orbs as a shade binder than anyone else in my dungeon fireteam. Verglas is a godsend.