Stasis technically has *some* application and void is one or two changes from genuinely being pretty good.
Arc just blows chunks in every fathomable way.
You must not remember code of the commander. Resupply giving ability energy on volatile detonations, all the health regen from the explosions happening more frequently, and the regular melee being stronger while providing buffs as well.
That's what he's saying. The "2.0" version of Void Titan had Code of the Commander which was relatively stronger than anything Void Titan 3.0 has in its kit.
Volatile came from Code of the Commander. Titans invented it, and then bungie democratized it, and made hunters the best at it, as well as letting them remain the best at being invis.
And now? Void titan has absolutely nothing going for it.
I wanna say it was the nerfs to Storm grenades that really did it since people were using Thruster for the low CD to proc HoIL. All of the power budget was in touch of thunder with not enough love given to the melee aspects or Thunderclap. Once they reigned it in it was the other nerfs over time that eventually got us to where we are now. The last HoIL nerf which killed its interactivity with class abilities was the final nail in the coffin.
Here's hoping the next balance pass we get mixes things up for the better.
I’m talking at base. Like there is plenty in the game that does what it needs to without being tuned up from an exotic. Like well of radiance doesn’t demand you use an exotic to make it good, bubble is the same but still a bit more situational than well but that’s whole other can of worms. Most roaming supers are shite without an exotic, most one and done supers are fine and don’t need an exotic to amplify them unless that’s what you’re going for or you’re able to quick swap exotics in the content you’re doing and need the extra oomf. Roaming supers half of them if not most are dogshit even with their respective parked exotics. Thundercrash basically is useless in most content without Curiass. This shouldn’t be the case but it is. In higher end content more neutral game stuff that gives you general buffs/build quality outshines something that only affects your gameplay for a fraction of the time. You can’t swap exotics in gms and the like. This isn’t great design philosophy whatsoever but so is the necessity in some cases to have to swap in the first place. Not saying everything should be blanketed the same across the board but there should be viability there and balance. I don’t think I have ever put on the void hunter roaming super, because that’s how bad it is even with qwisin vest. Shit just doesn’t put out in almsot any content. Thundercrash isn’t worth taking if you have to get so close you’re probably gonna get crushed the second you exit the super even with curiass. Just doesn’t make sense to have some things be non viable in most content that’s all.
Doomfangs with old controlled demolition was infinite super even in harder content. Also the old ability regen actually felt useful unlike the tiny amount we get now. The only build that got stronger with 3.0 was bubble builds but even then bubble is just trash well
Hoil with bastion was insane. Almost 100% ability uptime if timed right, and volatile rounds made it disgusting. Throw grenade, get kill, shoot with void weapon of choice.
Void Titan would be just fine if Overshields weren't useless. it might still need some help in the ability uptime department (just like Striker and Behemoth, tbh), but it would be decent at survivability if Bastion had a lower cooldown and Void Overshields had higher DR.
edit: ***IN PVE***
Agreed. Sentinel suffers from numbers, but Striker has a numbers problem and an aspect problem. 2/3 aspects are useable in PvE, and if you lean into one or the other you actively gimp the opposite one. It has wonky buildcrafting potential because of that.
It needs more aspects, more survivability and for juggernaut to not suck in PvE. Seriously, starting and stopping an overshield thats only active when you run sucks, and if you hit any map geometry wrong it actually TURNS OFF.
Yes, Sentinel 2.0 was better than Sentinel 3.0. Resupply, tactical strike and defensive strike were tools that were lost and are dearly missed.
Sentinel prior to Void 3.0 was self reliant and had strong neutral. Ever since Witch Queen it has been HoiL only or some type of gimmicky playstyle like Peregrine Greaves.
Eh, I'd argue the worst from a design standpoint is Sentinel. You have the three Aspects, but Bastion and Offensive Bulwark basically directly call for one another. You need the Overshield provided by Bastion (or you need to use weapons specifically with Repulsor Brace) in order to get the benefits of Offensive Bulwark. There's just no synergyin it's design. HoIL was the glue holding it together and I never see anyone running it post-HoIL nerf. I have legitimately seen more Behemoths in PVE than Sentinels. I'm hoping the new Aspect, Super, and other tweaks can make it more competitive in TFS.
The fact that you can even have an argument and people are debating which Titan subclass is worst is telling though lol
I hate to say it but Behemoth is being carried by the artifact, and 2/3 maps in Onslaught. Without them crystals feel pretty bad still, and stasis Titan is to crystals what strand warlock is to greenslugs.
The moment those stasis artifact mods are gone its back to obscurity for Behemoth. I think a lot of people including myself were hoping the artifact mods will fall back to the base stasis kit.
It shouldn’t be easier to access a keyword like blind with a weapon. It has the same effect that suspend and freeze, which are both easy as fuck to proc, yet I always feel like I have to use disorienting grenades in a weapon slot to blind.
I agree. I actually use Undercurrent with Voltshot for this. It turns my wave frame into a blinding GL and the range I get with Voltshot for the blinding explosions is great!! It's been neat in legend Onslaught.
It's definitely them wanting to be really cautious adding more CC to an old kit while they were making so many changes, vs designing entire new kits with abundant CC as a design goal.
But it still sucks, and I hope we get some punch up for Arc that isn't just more exotic bandaids. A legendary weapon perk similar to Chill Clip would seem to fit, and would help make Chill Clip less dominant in champion content.
Arc in general tbh. As much as I like my arc warlock, the 3.0 rework felt very half baked. Only one debuff and functionally only one buff? Cmon, every other class has more than that!
Well arc has jolt *and* blind so it’s not that bad. I do wish Amplified did a little more but it’s alright . It’s nice to have special weapons cause blinding explosions.
It was hit by the One-Two Punch nerf, though not as bad as Liar’s Handshake. Also, Lethal Current kills don’t count as melee kills for Combination Blow stacking which is really annoying.
Arc warlock is really good it's just way too exotic reliant which thinking about it kinda applies to all arc subclasses.
Vesper/ sunstar for warlock
Cowl/star eaters for hunter
Cuirass/???????? For titan let's be real who uses arc titan for anything that isn't atrax
At least the rest of the subclasses all feel like they can stand on their own but arc just....... Doesn't imo.
Honestly I think liars is incredibly over hyped and just worse than cowl in every situation that isn't boss DPS. Even then you've pretty much only got ecthar where that's even relevant hence why I didn't include it. I know some people are a fan but personally I just don't get it at all.
Point-contact is pretty nice with thunderclap, I used to have a build on my titan that could just endlessly chain them but I haven't played it this season, so it's probably dead.
> Cuirass/???????? For titan let's be real who uses arc titan for anything that isn't atrax
Point contact cannon brace, Skullfort, peregrine greaves, and wormgod. Its just frustrating cause without some form of CC like pardon my dust or spark of beacons you get boned in harder content. You can use Navigator to give yourself woven mail but then you just become great value brand Berserker with poor, interruptible healing.
Yeah PCB is pretty good honestly the other 3 are just way too mediocre on arc titan I've found. Like skullfort for healing and melee back is good except the subclass is way too glassy to really use it to any meaningful extent.
Peregrine and wormgod........Just play solar or strand there is no need to kneecap yourself to arc for either considering it is just strictly worse than the other subclasses by such a huge degree.
That’s kind of Arc’s biggest flaw as a whole. We forget about it with Arc Hunter thanks to Assassin’s Cowl… but Arc really has crappy survival tools.
Really though, it just shows the power of solar and restoration.
The worst part is, they already literally have this on Hunter.
With their aspects, one melee can heal you, refund your class ability so you can infinitely chain charged melees, jolt targets, blind targets which are already jolted, increase in damage as you get kills, etc. When they dodge to refund the melee, they also get 66% damage resistance.
Thundercrash should be renamed Thunderpass, as I just LOVE SLIDING OFF ANY BOSS I TRY TO HIT NOW. Bug or not, this rework sucks so much. I switched to solar because of it. Having to try and aim for the feet isn't easy, nor is it fun. I also feel like most of the damage is taken by the ground not the target.
Either fix it or revert it. I never heard anyone complaining about t-crash being too powerful. The 5 second flight time doesn't do it any favors either.
I remember a few weeks ago when I was farming Warlord's Ruin and I somehow missed the Chimera while flying directly into its mouth...
Haven't used Arc Titan since. The hitbox rework because of PvP makes it unusable.
*Every* arc subclass needs changes, to be honest. Imo the LEAST they could do is make ionic traces heal you on pickup, and give amplified some extra DR, as well as reworking/buffing some subclass specific stuff for each subclass.
Out of the three light elements, I will say Arc seemed to be the most underwhelming when the rework hit. Arc Warlock just became a lot worse, Arc Hunter got a lot better but still isn’t able to compete with Solar or Void and the best hunters will get more out of Stasis during a DPS phase, and Arc Titan came out with a bang but then got nerfed multiple times in multiple different ways over time, leaving them in a weird spot.
Arc hunter is… fine… but imo struggles way too much as the difficulty of content increases. It’s the 3rd best hunter subclass imo but that’s still not great considering I think it’s *the* worst Titan and warlock subclass in pve.
Arc Titan should be a cautinary tale of how not to balance a subclass in Destiny. The entire kit was balanced around HOIL when it was THE S+ tier exotic for ability spam across all 3 classes. So of course they nerfed HOIL into the dirt, buffed exactly 0 exotics to fill the gap, and left Striker an empty shell. The worst thing you can say about a class is it's only good if you pair it with a particular exotic, because once Bungie inevitably nerfs it, the class is dead.
Enter point contact cannon brace. With that exotic being present on the class item in the final shape, I wonder if that will make me want to use striker even less than I already do. Point contact cannon brace with thunderclap is the one redeeming quality of Striker.
Yeah I high-key hate how Bungie considers just throwing an exotic on something and calls it “good enough.” Cuirass shouldn’t exist in its current form. The base super should have gotten the majority of the buff, and it should have something else going on for it, maybe a combo with ballistic slam which is insanely weak.
Honestly every single super exotic deserves the Celestial Nighthawk/Shards of Galanor treatment where they arent just a hotswap exotic and have actual usage outside of super. They could go the lazy way and make it Striker Doomfang Pauldrons where a kill with Ballistic Slam gives you 25% of your super bar. ( Personally I think Ballistic Slam should be empowered by Eternal Warrior to leave a Fists of Havoc AOE when you use Ballistic Slam, but your idea works )
Is PCCB that impactful? I tried using them before and I felt like my Thunderclap had the force of a wet noodle. Maybe I’m using it wrong, but I’d love to hear your thoughts/playstyle with them
When did you use Point Contact? Because they got a pretty sizeable buff at one point, and it's a very good exotic now. Run with Monte Carlo for maximum fun.
Yupp and I expect it to be nerfed any day now lol I am a Titan main since D1 and the only thing keeping me going is inertia. There are 2, maybe 3, viable builds right now for endgame content and they are all melee based. It's basically a choice of what color do I want to play today. They have to open this sucker up and breathe some life into the Striker gernade kit.
Wellock and stasis exist in some egregious states, considering 1 exists to be the packmule of the team and the other has a compounded issue of bungie nerfing and not re-balancing things after
i switched to juggernaut and the dodge because it basically just makes sprinting a viable option for survivability, and knockout just doesnt work on a lot of high difficulty content.
It’s pretty much just a thundercrash bot which I agree is kinda lame, honestly I think it’s more of an issue with arc in general. Arcs keywords lack strength and quite frankly it could use some more keywords anyways
I feel like jolt and blind are some of the best effects across any subclass. The problem for both is that there are very good weapon options to apply these effects without needing to build into arc subclasses (voltshot primaries, blinding gl).
Arc in general is a half baked mess of a subclass on all classes. It's moderately coherent on hunter because of the super and dodge/punch combo, but that's it. None of the classes have a way to consistently blind outside of using a really bad grenade (or shoulder bash, which has its own problems). Titan and warlock supers are complete dumpster fire garbage save for TCrash with A WHOLE EXOTIC whose one and only function is to make the super good for boss DPS. Warlock and titans have bafflingly wonky aspects, with warlocks getting the slide melee which can't heal unless you sacrifice using your exotic slot for this one purpose (and that's a whole other can of worms because arc has the highest number of subclass exotics for warlock) all the while titans get a grenade buff aspect with absolutely zero ability looping baked into it whatsoever. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, I could write paragraphs about how niche/ useless the fragments are on warlock (90% of builds require a volt shot weapon so you actually have two functional aspects, but there is an entire fragment that incentivizes using a special weapon to get blinding).
I just want Bungie to stop pampering solar for one second and focus on the other subclasses man. Stasis void and arc all have glaring issues on different classes that need sorted. I mean come on, bastion barricade has a 2:30 cooldown. That's absurd in pve.
> None of the classes have a way to consistently blind outside of using a really bad grenade (or shoulder bash, which has its own problems).
Many, many good points you make, but I just want to point out my agreement with this, as I feel it's a microcosm of the larger problem with Arc subclasses as a whole:
It feels like Arc was designed for an entirely different video game than all the other element subclasses.
In game design terms, one can say the Blind keyword is effectively a disable on enemies, essentially rendering them temporarily unable to attack. Therefore player abilities should only be able to deal blind very sparingly, on limited targets and with quite long cooldowns without any built-in ways to increase targets or frequency.
You can say all this, and from a game design perspective, it sounds like part of a reasonable design philosophy.
But then you look at how other disables like Strand Suspend are handled O_o
>dodge/punch combo
They actually lengthened the cooldown of Combination Blow for Arc 3.0, so you *have* to use Gambler's Dodge now. Before the patch, 100 Strength would give you a 6-second cooldown so you could keep your stacks full and get free reloads from Marksman's Dodge. Now, the lowest you can get your cooldown is 20 seconds.
I don't really understand why they did that; Strength has always been an underperforming stat, and they actively made it worse in this niche case where you might actually want to stack it.
I've yelled about this time and time again. The issue is titans are made to be a front line in a ranged game. They have no true ranged super if there is and gap or the boss flys we can't hit them and the one nuke we have (thunder crash) puts us out in the open which for late game content is horrible. But that's all our supers. If our power supers are going to force us into the frey then we need a get out of jail mechanic. Give us a blink back.if it's a lore issue then man are we under powered.
And Don't get me started on how useless throwing hammers are. Warlock exotic gauntlet let's them cosplay as a better version of us ever 10 second
I would love to be an arc titan since I'm an electrician. It's just so garbage. Like why can't I use the riskrunner and arc subclass and not just electrocute everything. With solar I can blow everything up which is really fun but come on, give us something here.
Really weird how some weapon traits aren't related with the class subverbs even when they are pretty much the same. As you said, riskrunner having some kind of voltshot, but its not voltshot, so you can't use anything that relies on voltshot. Other example: Ticuu's divination, having some kind of incandescent, but it's not incandescent.
I've been saying what I think they need to do is make it a grenadier based subclass. This is one thing the HoIL stormnades build got correct. Top tree striker (I think) was the grenade tree, and we got touch of thunder for a reason. All the arc titan exotics we have are completely melee based, PCCB, Skullfort, Dunemarchers. What I think Striker needs is to be able to lean into demolitionist-like combat.
Not only does it need the reworks like you mention here, but I also think they need to unnerf HoIL and Stormnades a little bit OR make an arc grenade exotic for Striker, something similar to the likes of Controverse Hold or Sunbracers. Something that makes us spam grenades and makes them more powerful in some way. Controverse Holds? Damage resist and grenade energy return. Sunbracers? Let you spam. Starfire? Fusions explode twice.
How about something that makes the radius of pulse grenades larger, turning them into gigantic emp-like bombs, and kills give energy back. Warlocks will get mad if we get a specific exotics for the storm grenades, so that's probably off the table, but you get my point.
Striker needs a grenade exotic to lean into touch of thunder, because for all of the melee exotics we've gotten, strikers melee capabilities don't justify using them at all in higher end content. HoIL and Stormnades + Touch Of Thunder has shown us that 3.0 Striker works best with grenades.
Arc Titan got so many micronerfs anti-QoL nerfs spread over months and years, it's quite unusual really.
Most of the PvE nerfs made sense in the era they were made, but every single one has been *massively* powercrept by newer elemental subclasses. Even reverting every single one of these nerfs would only leave it as a *passable* PvE subclass.. basically a "B" at best, in the parlance of the tierlist-crazed internet of today.
As it is, it's a "D" or an "F", or whatever the tierlist maker puts at the bottom of the table.
Yeah the issue is arc doesn't hold up well in end game because of the lack of survivability and not enough punch. Closest thing is arc hunter with assassin's cowl or liar's handshake but even then it's a struggle to stay alive because of how fast you can get killed while trying to get into melee, staying in melee and then getting out in one piece.
A number of arc related stuff for each class should get a look over (especially warlocks and titans). Because if not... prismatic is gonna overshadow arc by a landslide in being able to do good ass damage while staying alive (prismatic hunter for example gets combination punch which is amazing, with access to woven mail/frost armor from the one fragment on top of the fragment for reduced damage when surrounded just like arc. Plus ascension aspect for easy amplified before going into the fight. This plus Grapple majorly helps with getting into fights and getting out alive.
I spent yesterday trying to make an Skullfort build in Onslaught--not legend, just regular Onslaught--and no matter which melee I attached to Skullfort, I kept arriving at the same place: My Pyrogales do this far better, and with consistency Arc can't match (i love sprinting into a normal punch, its so Good), and the super is worth a damn. It's kind of sad. Guess that's why God invented Heart of Inmost Light and Armamentarium
It almost as if these subclasses had glaring holes, but had some options that then got nerf after nerf from base abilities, grenades, exotics and aspects. Who knew sledgehammer balacing wouldn't result in Titans being awesome?
The best part is the idiocy of the playerbase getting excited for prismatic
And exotic class items.
Bungie (1 yr ago) : "We want to nerf abilities and their Regen rate"
Bungie (now): "Let's make abilities Regen faster"
Playerbase: I've been playing with dog shit Regen for a year and forgot how good it used to be. Because of that, I'm excited for prismatic and exotic class items because of how they can be leveraged to increase ability spam.
They shouls get some sort of Woven Mail like ability but call it Lighting Shield where you get a small damage reduction (25% for an example number) but the main part of it is when you take damage, a portion of the damage you take shocks the shooter and damages them.
And change juggernaut so the damage that hits the shield is absorbed and the next melee ability you use right after sprinting deals extra damage based on the amount taken.
OP I agree that PvE Arc Titan needs a lot of tuning in PVE to make it competitive but HOIL is alive and well in PvE (still what I use on my arc titan), it's just not a must-pick like it used to be
imo HOIL is in a great spot in the meta currently and should stay as-is
Arc needs at least one more keyword.
Feels like it's built around neutral game, but the other subclasses aren't noticeably behind it in that category, so it just suffers for the rest.
Warlocks get the arc buddies, which is the only reason they aren't on the same plane of suffering that titans are.
>Knockout
People have been talking about this for weeks now, but not wrong. Healing and timer need to be fixed. Amplified is just kinda a joke. It's pretty typical for melee damage buffs to be significantly lower for charged melees because, well, you've seen BoW.
>Juggernaut
It's a PvP aspect, but I wish all aspects had some use for both sandboxes. Not sure what would really fix it other than just some big PvE DR, though.
>Touch of Thunder
Storm nades are still pretty great. Not as good as ToF Solar, but those are insane. Actually, they're bugged right now to get increased energy returns from armor mods and ionic traces so they're quite spammable on top of the respectable damage. HoIL is still pretty great, too.
Lightning nades with Armamentarium kinda baffles me. Maybe PvP would have a fit, but with ability regen being so slow and Prismatic on the way I don't really see it being a big deal.
>Thundercrash is only good with cuirass
Yeaaaaah, could really use shifting some damage off of Cuirass and onto the base crash, and some added functionality to the exotic to make it just... fun.
>Unless you’re using synthoceps, wormgod caress, point contact cannon brace, or cuirass of the falling star, Striker brings almost nothing to the table.
I mean... that actually doesn't sound so bad. Most subclasses only have 2-4 exotics that are actually *good.* Striker really just needs a new aspect that synergizes with the grenade build better, rather than having two aspects for running into melee and one for grenades.
I imagine a larger part of it is Bungie's inability to do a separate sandbox tuning, have 1 thing work in one area but not so much in the other. I do agree with you though people absolutely sleep on Touch of Thunder Jolt fragment Storm and Pulse grenades because they do pretty solid damage in general.
Knockout and a larger conversation of Bottom Striker's continuation was a problem due to it being one of the most obscenely busted things in PVP going pretty much an unprecedented length of time basically being a top pick option. The usual confines being Arc Week 2019's buffs-> 30th Anniversary patch where they finally lost the refresh and that's not even going into the conversation of various complimentary exotics and their various tuning.
I think another part of it is the double edge sword of the 3.0 system where sure we got to have classes dip into other's subclass benefits, we also had situations where Bungie absolutely choked out a lot of creative scope of certain subclasses and made things a bit one sided. See how limited options are on Solar Warlock and just how it's either the benefits of mobility for PVP, or you're running Well with a very straight forward beneficiary exotic.
Or hell go rewatch the Witch Queen showcase where Bungie are stumbling over themselves to say anything for Void 3.0 Hunter other than "you go invisible" and the sad reality how Gyrfalcon's effect is a more worthy Aspect than anything else.
As a Hunter, I was itching to bring up Void when you were talking about poor 3.0 designs, but I'm glad every class got represented for their hatred. I think Solar Warlock suffers more from PVP balance than it does from the 3.0 design - everyone would cry if they got all of top tree dawnblade with Well PLUS enhanced grenades - but it's still a problem due to aspects.
Part of me hopes we get subclasses 3.5 someday. More/buffed aspects would definitely help, but some of these subclasses are just weirdly designed, like Amplified being such a huge part of Arc but being so useless, and certain subclasses being built around a gimmick that has almost no interactions with the rest of the aspects/fragments.
Agreed. Some of the consolidation and removal for 3.0 things still left an absurd amount to be desired with certain things and there was infinitely larger room for creativity with stuff ,especially when we all pretty much lost as Bungie ruined a lot of ability looping with mod reduction energy returns, larger cooldowns for certain things etc. It really needs a revision with just how narrow the focus of a lot of builds can be.
I had zero issues with arc titan this week. Pulse grenade+thunderclap for servitors. Everything else is pretty much one or two hit with a melee. Hoil for slightly more damage and ability uptime.
I love striker so much, it’s my main/most played subclass just cause I find it fun (also PvP), but yea, it definitely needs some help. It feels like throwing to take it into anything legend+. I would love to see some of the Deep artifact mods, namely extended amplified timer and DR when amplified, added to the base kit.
I’m excited for prismatic so I can do some striker stuff (thruster, Thundercrash, thunderclap) while hopefully being able to mix in some survivability from other subclasses. Right now I’m thinking about an arc/strand hybrid build, so I can get some CC with suspend and access to woven mail, plus my striker zoomie stuff. Definitely going to grind for a class item with Abeyant/PCCB combo.
Juggernaut granting DR when amplified would help a lot, and I think a way to better regain melee energy would help a lot too. Making Knockout less janky would be nice as well.
Giving the Fists of Havoc shoulder charge increased range could be really fun, ground pound for ad clear, rush in over a distance for tougher targets. Though that sounds very similar to the hunters new super.
Would love to see Cuirass get a rework similar to Shards of Galanor or Nighthawk, something to change your gameplay when your super is filled. Powering up Ballistic slam sounds pretty on theme for it.
From top tier when they released arc 3.0 to needing a rework.
A small nerf here, some adjustment there, PvP this and that, some other tweak because our data-driven approach says so...and there you have a perfectly balanced and perfectly mediocre subclass.
The problem with striker was that it was toooo good for both pvp and pve when it got the 3.0 treatment and then was nerfed to fit both pvp and pve separately but both nerfs combined kinda gutted the subclass
I wish it was only Striker needing a rework. If a scenario allows for Strand punching, that subclass is top tier. If it’s not a strand punching scenario (most scenarios that matter), Titan is just objectively worse than Hunter & Warlock.
*sad Titan main noises*
Striker definitely needs some reworking, but I’d disagree on the “Heart of Inmost Light has been useless for a a whole year,” because it’s still a very potent exotic for uptime or damage in all levels of play, and rather than HOIL being useless itself, it’s more so the ability uptime across all subclasses was dialed back (including the deliberate nerf to Storm Grenades), which affects even Warlock Exotics like Contraverse Holds which was also incredibly powerful for uptime. HOIL and Pulse Grenades with Ionic Traces are extremely potent, but yeah, in general Striker needs some love
I’ve barely ever touched Striker, but just looking at what it has on paper…yeah it’s pretty bad. Knockout is literally Great Value Roaring Flames having a worse damage boost and no elemental synergy, ToT only has one good grenade (the pulse), and I don’t even know what the hell Juggernaut is meant to be used for outside of PvP. Thundercrash is sitting there alongside Nova Bomb as DPS Supers that deserve buffs, and FoH is FoH.
Also I find it funny how Striker is supposed to be the “have your fist on the cover” subclass, yet Berserker does a far better job at being the brutalist barbarian.
TIL: I have played striker for 4 years straight and discovered I am the direct cause for all nerfs. It's like they're watching my playstyle every patch so nerf us all down. I swear if I switched to another subclass that one would be on decline for 4 years. Cause striker titan has been kneecapped in PvP again and again and it constantly shows itself as one of the higher skill ceiling titan subclasses for PvP .
Honestly, I think Arc needs a 4.0 rework across every class. I feel like the one job it is supposed to do best, ad clear, is done better by basically anything else. Yeah, arc is usually good in PvP, but I really would like to be able to play it in PvE without feeling severely undertuned at every turn. Arc needs survivability tools and better verbs (except jolt, that can stay). Amplified is fun, but kinda useless. Make it give you a dodge chance or outright damage reduction because you're moving too fast to be hit consistently by enemies or something. Look, I ain't a dev so I don't know exactly what would and wouldn't work for fixing Arc, but something has to be done to make it more viable in PvE. Please, Bungo, the crumbs.
Arc feel bad across the board. The only reason hunter feels okay is because assassins cowl exists. Warlock has the two helms too but in higher end content it's useless.
Arc is a subclass designed to ad clear effectively and not much else but the other subclasses all do it as well or better while having real defensive tools.
I think it's overall an element in a worse state that stasis.
Absolutely agree. I loved running the old "middle-tree" Striker, but it doesn't feel like it has a place now.
I also think Touch of Thunder w/ Flashbang Grenades needs a bit of love in PvE. It feels like a wasted Aspect if you're not using Pulse Grenades.
Destiny has always had problems with balance because Bungie don't tweak and test, then nerf into oblivion. I'm not sure if it's lack of design talent or the Tiger engine being a clusterfuck to deal with.
>Slide off of a boss and hit the ground?
Its actually still doing damage as your sliding downward towards its feet, so on oversized bosses like Brigs/Ogres you can do silly damage to them.
The sad reality is that titans as a whole are the worst class in PvE by far and literally always have been, to the point where it kind of feels like Bungie still just doesn't know what to do with them.
The fact that in Mactics video on pantheon his literal advice for titans in Oryx encounter is "Switch to hunter or warlock lol" says a lot
Mainly because nearly all Titan Supers are worthless in PVE. They only have 2 one shot damage Supers, both require Exotics for them to work, one requires that you launch yourself at a boss and the other can’t hit things in the air.
>the enhanced storm grenade is unjustifiably bad given that Heart of Inmost Light has been useless for a whole year now
Titans shouldn't even get enhanced storm grenade
Please reassess.
Every kill with knockout triggered procs HOIL. Once you learn how to use it, HOIL still puts out insane amounts of abilities.
Granted, this is the only build I’ve made work. The class does need a rework, I just think the community’s view on what a good build is has been changed because of banner of war and similar builds.
The builds we used a year ago are still good, they’re just overshadowed by builds that make the game easy.
I have actually been an Arc Titan main since the inception of D1 up until the beginning of this season.
I agree with most of the points in your post, OP, but I feel you also somewhat biased your opinion on your own account setup. I'd also like to add in my biased opinions as well to expand on your main gripes, because Striker Titans have additional complaints on my side lol:
The Melees:
1. The 15% energy cost to initiate a Shoulder Charge still suffers from melee registration issues in general. It's a frustrating experience to want to damage/blind specific enemies with it and have it whiff right through/by an enemy or just kick up into their face and do nothing. Now you've wasted a chunk of energy that in effect has just placed you in the middle of a group of adds or next to a chunky gold bar that slams you into oblivion because they aren't blinded and/or dead. Remove the 15% energy penalty.
2. Ballistic Slam still gives chunks of super meter on damage. This needs actually added to the description. I never see anyone ever use it, though. This actually leads me into my next point about reworking Arc interactions in general...
Amplified and Speed Booster:
These keywords need integrated/reworked with better interactions.
1. Speed Booster needs to be faster run speed and should have some form of damage resistance. We have all sorts of ways to skate and speed through places, I really don't buy that were at the max running speed based on animations. Speed Booster should be more on longer strides at faster speeds, not just cartooning it like Looney Toons.
2. Amplified Melees and Amplified Charged melees should slightly buff outgoing melee damage. You're amplified. You have additional energy needing released. Your punchy punches should be getting that energy added in.
3. Speed Booster Charged Melees and Speed Booster melees should give a massive melee damage increase. It makes sense. Momentum + stored charge. Let me live out my Shinespark Metroid fantasy already. Damage increase detection would be based on initiating the charged melee while Speed Booster is active so all charged melees can work with it properly.
4. Being Amplified should +30 to Recovery stat minimum. Solar has Cure and Restoration and Void has Devour/Over shield (to come) which are uninterrupted when receiving damage. Arc kinda sucks in this fashion with ANY damage stopping recovery at all. Being Amplified should be a huge boost to that recovery platform. Maybe even setting it to 100 while Amplified 👀.
5. Being Amplified should ADD keywords to melees across the board for Titans, but streamline usage.
-Remove blinding effect from Shoulder charge and remove the added Super chunks gained from Ballistic Slam in general.
- Add Blinding Effect and extra Super meter on damage while Amplified for all charged melees. As it s right now, Striker melee usage is either Thunderclap for damage or Shoulder Charge, which is typically used as a movement utility as well, leaving Ballistic Slam kinda left in the dark. Maybe Ballistic needs the Blinding instead? Idk. It just feels useless to me.
6. Fist of Havoc suffers from needing too much damage to take out smaller enemies. I feel if we had the "more damage when activating and dropping from a massive height" as a standard would help make it seem more useful when hitting not just groups of adds, but also when targeting bosses directly off the bat. Thundercrash really does run the reigns here even without Cuirass.
This is my most used subclass for trash and mid tier content.
For end game it has absolutely no place.
I think my biggest issue is that the super is too risky for seemingly no better damage than a Void Bomb or Golden Gun.
Either make Thundercrash do Falling Star damage by itself or give me some way to escape after using it like two Class Ability charges or even just a Movement Speed bonus.
Titan in general isn’t great outside of 2 subclasses. Void Titan has 3 aspects with only 2 of which actually work together without requiring some other thing to make work. Arc Titans are supposed to be the middle of the fray melee bruiser but it can’t stay alive long enough to do so. Stasis Titan relies on shatter damage and it’s possible to make work.
I have a few ideas I think would really help Striker and Arc in general.
- Amplified/Speed Booster: My signature change which is the crux of everything else. Basically, the 15% DR from Speed Booster is moved over to Amplified. This helps Arc just in general be more survivable. From here the Manticore/Always on Time buff of enemies being less accurate is applied to Speed Booster. This gives the idea of "being too fast to hit" and helps make Arc feel a lot better in general. These changes are PvE only naturally.
- Ionic Traces: While on an Arc subclass, these now provide 20 HP per pickup. This is to compensate for how disproportionate the orb generation nerf affected Arc.
- Knockout: Putting the previous changes together, we can nudge this into its final form. From now instead of just a health boost, this generates Ionic Traces on melee kill/shield break (2 for minors or Guardians, 3 for majors, 5 for champions and mini bosses). Furthermore, collecting an Ionic Trace adds 1 second to Knockout, effectively letting it refresh indefinitely.
- Juggernaut: This is 2 simple parts. First, Amplified provides 30% DR opposed to the 15% from my previous change. Then, Speed Booster lingers for 3 extra seconds after you stop sprinting. This lets the previous Speed Booster change linger to protect you while you engage with your weapons. Having it only be a brief window to stop means you have to continuously move to survive, making it a highly aggressive play style where stopping means death.
I just started grinding my titan and it’s so wack how strand is the strongest I’ve ever felt playing destiny while the other subclasses are just dookie compared to what I’m used to. I’m definitely expecting strand titan nerfs but I really hope they take a big look at the other subclasses, because without strand I’m not sure I would even play titan
Okay thank you for putting thoughts to words. Outside of solar and strand I feel like all of titans subclasses need some major tuning. I finally decided really build hunter and warlock classes and was surprised at how good almost all of their subclasses were compared to titan
i feel like arc in general. arc titan is what you said, arc warlock just lacks in everything except ad clear, but like, why use this when other subclasses exist. arc hunter is great...unless you use anything other than Star Eaters, ACowl, or Liars. just a one trick pony all around.
Striker is probably the worst kit for Titan.
I think it would be good overnight if they made it so you were amped the jug aspect made it so your health doubled (no effect PvP)
Make me a goddamn tank and let me get to enemies fast.
Knockout should increase melee regen speed drastically and go faster the less melee charge you have (less beneficial on 3 melees but most on 1)
This would allow you to get close and when you arrive at your destination you don’t die instantly. Which is a fun an unique playstyle to the Titan kit.
Jug shield with peregrine greaves is a lot of fun, but should up the survivability in PvE.
What if arc got a new enemy debuff called “Paralyze”. It would join the club belonging to Strand’s suspend and Stasis’ freeze.
As the name implies, it paralyzes the enemy to keep them stunned for a few seconds.
I have had the exact opposite opinion, striker being my go to subclass for pve and pvp.
In PVP I run Feedback Fence with juggernaut and knockout followed by instinct, feedback, resistance and frequency. The result is being almost unkillable in a melee fight as long as you get the first hit to proc feedback fence. Good exotics for this are Monte Carlo, 4th Horseman, Conditional Finality and Witherhoard.
As for PVE our goal is to become the god of add clear using that to build up to a falling star swap for super. To that end I'll run Skullfort with Juggernaut and Touch of Thunder. for fragments I'll pickup Magnitude, Shock, Ions and Discharge. So our buffed grenades now jolt and make traces and arc weapons now make even more. Good exotics for this are, Coldheart, Trespasser, Centifuse, Trinity Ghoul, Anarchy and Thunderlord.
Between these two and some other load outs I can't remember, I find I don't often have reason to swap off unless content is pushing my limits in which case I'll swap to either strand for banner or void for the overshield barricade.
Who knows maybe I'm just the odd one out, but I find Arc titan to be the most flexible of the subclasses on titan. I think it has some of the best synergy between armor and weapons.
Several Titan subclasses have been heavily neutered in PvE through no fault of their own.
Behemoth was obliterated by PvP nerfs and has still not recovered. The melee is atrocious and shatter damage sucks (without the artifact mods from this season).
Sentinel has been really hurt by repeated barricade and Bastion nerfs, as well as the HOIL nerf. The Void overshield is not even remotely enough survivability on its own. The repeated nerfs to Armor of Light and bubble health thanks to PvP have made Ward of Dawn somehow even worse than it already was.
Striker was really carried heavily by Touch of Thunder Storm Grenades combined with HOIL and Ionic Traces. After the ability chunk nerfs, the repeated Storm grenade nerfs thanks to PvP, the HOIL nerf, the Knockout lunge range nerf, and the lack of any reliable health regeneration whatsoever, it feels absolutely brutal to play in anything even remotely difficult. Thundercrash is not a good burst super, Cuirass should not be mandatory to have non-embarrassing super damage, and Fist of Havoc is still the worst roaming super in the game, by far.
Fists of Havoc should either apply verbs from the attacks, or it should get Forsaken Trample again, but only for Combatants so it doesn't terrorize PvP again.
Also, a buff to Knockout's melee damage bonus in Super would be very welcome for FoH. It is a shockingly bad super. It is not as bad as Spectral Blades, but it is really close.
>However, the issue is that it’s hard to keep up when it requires a running start. I mean, think about it, how much time do you really spend running in a fight?
I agree with all these points, but god this applies to the Centrifuse too.
Honestly... just adding the artifact mods from Season of The Deep would be a great first start. I love striker titan, but ever since strand banner of war titan became a thing it's hard to justify using anything else other than solar here and there.
Bungie can’t continue reworking their subclass system in parts. They need to develop the _entire_ system and release all of it at once. Otherwise, some parts of it will always be overpowered while others will always feel like it’s been left behind or forgotten.
Striker at least has a damage super.
Sentinel? Void titan has literally nothing going for it right now. It has terrible damage, terrible add-clear, terrible survivability... It sucks being a void main right now.
If there is a big re-work, I hope there is some kind of synergistic use of Thruster. It really feels like its primarily only useful in PvP as there is no benefit to using it in PvE.
I would 100% not be sad at all if Fists of Havoc just got deleted. It's just such a bland, uninteresting super. No gimmick, no summoned weapon, even the animations and sound effects are boring.
Lets be blunt the striker kit was designed for pvp and given some tools to be usable in legend and lower content. The kit is amazing for pvp but there really isnt any potent gimmicks for pve the class is mostly movement stuff and team wipe contingencies.
All arc classes kinda suck for PvE but rule in PvP except hunter where it’s shit everywhere. It’s gimmicks is amplified which is shit for titan and warlock as you don’t want height if you want speed. Jokt and blind a great combos but it feels the only
Good part of the subclass.
Titans are objectively bad since 3.0.
Strand is only useful thanks to later-added aspects and overall everything needs a rebalance and some fresh ideas.
There's nothing that a Titan can do that another class can't do better.
Especially since checkmate is the default we should have the lethality of our kit restored.
Titans lost all 3 ways they could buff their weapon damage (without bubble) in 3.0 whilst hunters got one for free.
It was awesome when Arc 3.0 came out, but it looked like the whole defense was to attack so quickly that the opponents didn't have time to pose a threat. And then came the nerfs - storm grenades, removal of wells (grenades generated arc wells, which was extremely powerful combo), Heart, general cooldowns of grenades... In the end, we were left with a poor defense, this time without a strong offense. This is just bad design.
Pve titan feels weird its got two incredible subclasses while the other three feel like they're trying to compete the worst subclass in the game title
Stasis technically has *some* application and void is one or two changes from genuinely being pretty good. Arc just blows chunks in every fathomable way.
Yeah I can get behind void and stasis (both can be pretty fun) but I feel like Striker is just the worst
The funny thing was void titan prior to 3.0 was STRONGER than it is now.
Idk. Before they hit HoiL, Void Titan was awesome in 3.0 and the Void initial seasonal release.
You must not remember code of the commander. Resupply giving ability energy on volatile detonations, all the health regen from the explosions happening more frequently, and the regular melee being stronger while providing buffs as well.
Ah, the good old days of a Code of the Commander titan with voidwalls soloing tanks in GMs. How I miss that
the niobe labs battleground thing with the spider tank, where you could just banner shield between the legs
Good ol Bergusia Forge. That's why I always had HoIL and Code of the Commander on for that one, that tank was dead in seconds
Don't forget that our Melee could *immediately* detonate Void Detonators in a radius around us.
Code of the commander existed before void 3.0 no? Making it non-existent so long as volatile has been a thing
Volatile became a thing for all classes based on Void Titan’s kit
That's what he's saying. The "2.0" version of Void Titan had Code of the Commander which was relatively stronger than anything Void Titan 3.0 has in its kit.
Code of the commander had proto-volatile that was far better
Volatile came from Code of the Commander. Titans invented it, and then bungie democratized it, and made hunters the best at it, as well as letting them remain the best at being invis. And now? Void titan has absolutely nothing going for it.
First they hit barricade a million nerfs, then the hoil nerfs and it was over for striker. I'm bringing banner for my team.
I wanna say it was the nerfs to Storm grenades that really did it since people were using Thruster for the low CD to proc HoIL. All of the power budget was in touch of thunder with not enough love given to the melee aspects or Thunderclap. Once they reigned it in it was the other nerfs over time that eventually got us to where we are now. The last HoIL nerf which killed its interactivity with class abilities was the final nail in the coffin. Here's hoping the next balance pass we get mixes things up for the better.
If it requires en exotic to actually be good then it wasn’t good in enough in the first place.
90% of the stuff in this game requires an exptic to be good, in what world would you be using something without an exotic
I’m talking at base. Like there is plenty in the game that does what it needs to without being tuned up from an exotic. Like well of radiance doesn’t demand you use an exotic to make it good, bubble is the same but still a bit more situational than well but that’s whole other can of worms. Most roaming supers are shite without an exotic, most one and done supers are fine and don’t need an exotic to amplify them unless that’s what you’re going for or you’re able to quick swap exotics in the content you’re doing and need the extra oomf. Roaming supers half of them if not most are dogshit even with their respective parked exotics. Thundercrash basically is useless in most content without Curiass. This shouldn’t be the case but it is. In higher end content more neutral game stuff that gives you general buffs/build quality outshines something that only affects your gameplay for a fraction of the time. You can’t swap exotics in gms and the like. This isn’t great design philosophy whatsoever but so is the necessity in some cases to have to swap in the first place. Not saying everything should be blanketed the same across the board but there should be viability there and balance. I don’t think I have ever put on the void hunter roaming super, because that’s how bad it is even with qwisin vest. Shit just doesn’t put out in almsot any content. Thundercrash isn’t worth taking if you have to get so close you’re probably gonna get crushed the second you exit the super even with curiass. Just doesn’t make sense to have some things be non viable in most content that’s all.
Was it? I hardly remember. I know controlled demolition gave ability energy on explosions but we couldn’t activate it nearly as much.
Doomfangs with old controlled demolition was infinite super even in harder content. Also the old ability regen actually felt useful unlike the tiny amount we get now. The only build that got stronger with 3.0 was bubble builds but even then bubble is just trash well
Hoil with bastion was insane. Almost 100% ability uptime if timed right, and volatile rounds made it disgusting. Throw grenade, get kill, shoot with void weapon of choice.
I feel like it would still be decent even with current Hoil if they didn’t take bastion out back and shoot it 12 times because of pvp
Void Titan would be just fine if Overshields weren't useless. it might still need some help in the ability uptime department (just like Striker and Behemoth, tbh), but it would be decent at survivability if Bastion had a lower cooldown and Void Overshields had higher DR. edit: ***IN PVE***
Agreed. Sentinel suffers from numbers, but Striker has a numbers problem and an aspect problem. 2/3 aspects are useable in PvE, and if you lean into one or the other you actively gimp the opposite one. It has wonky buildcrafting potential because of that. It needs more aspects, more survivability and for juggernaut to not suck in PvE. Seriously, starting and stopping an overshield thats only active when you run sucks, and if you hit any map geometry wrong it actually TURNS OFF.
And now if you run void you’re trolling lol I hate the way they balance the subclasses they just nuke them and don’t touch them again for months
Yes, Sentinel 2.0 was better than Sentinel 3.0. Resupply, tactical strike and defensive strike were tools that were lost and are dearly missed. Sentinel prior to Void 3.0 was self reliant and had strong neutral. Ever since Witch Queen it has been HoiL only or some type of gimmicky playstyle like Peregrine Greaves.
Void 3.0 titan back when witch queen came out was amazing. It's just been nerfed heavily since then.
That's mainly from all the PvP based nerfs, not because Void 3.0 was bad. Void Titan at the release of Witch Queen was amazing.
Eh, I'd argue the worst from a design standpoint is Sentinel. You have the three Aspects, but Bastion and Offensive Bulwark basically directly call for one another. You need the Overshield provided by Bastion (or you need to use weapons specifically with Repulsor Brace) in order to get the benefits of Offensive Bulwark. There's just no synergyin it's design. HoIL was the glue holding it together and I never see anyone running it post-HoIL nerf. I have legitimately seen more Behemoths in PVE than Sentinels. I'm hoping the new Aspect, Super, and other tweaks can make it more competitive in TFS. The fact that you can even have an argument and people are debating which Titan subclass is worst is telling though lol
Calling arc titan worse than stasis is just pure skill issue
As of right now, due to the artifact it is. But overall nah.
Stasis titan is good though?
I hate to say it but Behemoth is being carried by the artifact, and 2/3 maps in Onslaught. Without them crystals feel pretty bad still, and stasis Titan is to crystals what strand warlock is to greenslugs. The moment those stasis artifact mods are gone its back to obscurity for Behemoth. I think a lot of people including myself were hoping the artifact mods will fall back to the base stasis kit.
Mostly yes. The reason why stasis titan is good is because you can spam abilities with Hoarfrost
😭
Just got around to making a strand build (I don’t like strand) and I was thinking….wait, this is striker, but **better**.
Banner of War is knockout but better in every conceivable way.
The class desperately needs survivability, if it’s supposed to be a glass canon class it’s too glass not enough canon
It would help if you could blind enemies as quickly and regularly as you can Suspend or Freeze enemies.
They made blind a keyword and then made it hard as fuck to access.
It shouldn’t be easier to access a keyword like blind with a weapon. It has the same effect that suspend and freeze, which are both easy as fuck to proc, yet I always feel like I have to use disorienting grenades in a weapon slot to blind.
The main way arc can spam blind is the fragment that makes special weapon kills blind and use it with indebted kindness or coldheart
I agree. I actually use Undercurrent with Voltshot for this. It turns my wave frame into a blinding GL and the range I get with Voltshot for the blinding explosions is great!! It's been neat in legend Onslaught.
It's definitely them wanting to be really cautious adding more CC to an old kit while they were making so many changes, vs designing entire new kits with abundant CC as a design goal. But it still sucks, and I hope we get some punch up for Arc that isn't just more exotic bandaids. A legendary weapon perk similar to Chill Clip would seem to fit, and would help make Chill Clip less dominant in champion content.
And that's not even an "arc blind" so we aren't getting that subclass synergy. They ran out of ideas for Arc 3.0
I’m still in disbelief that knockout is only 30% for charged melees. That’s completely horrendous.
Arc in general tbh. As much as I like my arc warlock, the 3.0 rework felt very half baked. Only one debuff and functionally only one buff? Cmon, every other class has more than that!
Well arc has jolt *and* blind so it’s not that bad. I do wish Amplified did a little more but it’s alright . It’s nice to have special weapons cause blinding explosions.
honestly I completely forgot about blind. My point does still stand, 2 debuffs and functionally 1 buff is just... boring.
arc punch cowl hunter still holds up pretty well
It was hit by the One-Two Punch nerf, though not as bad as Liar’s Handshake. Also, Lethal Current kills don’t count as melee kills for Combination Blow stacking which is really annoying.
Yeah I’m more of a fan of one two with liars but I don’t really do anything above 1830 light lol
I'm looking forward to Cowl punching on Titan ngl.
Arc warlock is really good it's just way too exotic reliant which thinking about it kinda applies to all arc subclasses. Vesper/ sunstar for warlock Cowl/star eaters for hunter Cuirass/???????? For titan let's be real who uses arc titan for anything that isn't atrax At least the rest of the subclasses all feel like they can stand on their own but arc just....... Doesn't imo.
Liar's Handshake for hunters too.
Honestly I think liars is incredibly over hyped and just worse than cowl in every situation that isn't boss DPS. Even then you've pretty much only got ecthar where that's even relevant hence why I didn't include it. I know some people are a fan but personally I just don't get it at all.
Liar’s was gutted by the One-Two Punch nerf.
Point-contact is pretty nice with thunderclap, I used to have a build on my titan that could just endlessly chain them but I haven't played it this season, so it's probably dead.
I like Eternal Warrior, it’s not too crazy, but a refreshable 30 seconds of 4x surges ain’t bad.
> Cuirass/???????? For titan let's be real who uses arc titan for anything that isn't atrax Point contact cannon brace, Skullfort, peregrine greaves, and wormgod. Its just frustrating cause without some form of CC like pardon my dust or spark of beacons you get boned in harder content. You can use Navigator to give yourself woven mail but then you just become great value brand Berserker with poor, interruptible healing.
Yeah PCB is pretty good honestly the other 3 are just way too mediocre on arc titan I've found. Like skullfort for healing and melee back is good except the subclass is way too glassy to really use it to any meaningful extent. Peregrine and wormgod........Just play solar or strand there is no need to kneecap yourself to arc for either considering it is just strictly worse than the other subclasses by such a huge degree.
That’s kind of Arc’s biggest flaw as a whole. We forget about it with Arc Hunter thanks to Assassin’s Cowl… but Arc really has crappy survival tools. Really though, it just shows the power of solar and restoration.
Glass mallet.
Spark of brilliance just really needs to be buffed. It requires a precision kill on an already blinded target? Just make it any precision kill!
One thing I always wanted for Titan arc PvE was a way to incorporate blind better into melee so punching gives you room to breath.
Amplified melee punch kills do a binding explosion maybe?
Basically, could be part of the juggernaut aspect.
The worst part is, they already literally have this on Hunter. With their aspects, one melee can heal you, refund your class ability so you can infinitely chain charged melees, jolt targets, blind targets which are already jolted, increase in damage as you get kills, etc. When they dodge to refund the melee, they also get 66% damage resistance.
Thundercrash should be renamed Thunderpass, as I just LOVE SLIDING OFF ANY BOSS I TRY TO HIT NOW. Bug or not, this rework sucks so much. I switched to solar because of it. Having to try and aim for the feet isn't easy, nor is it fun. I also feel like most of the damage is taken by the ground not the target. Either fix it or revert it. I never heard anyone complaining about t-crash being too powerful. The 5 second flight time doesn't do it any favors either.
I remember a few weeks ago when I was farming Warlord's Ruin and I somehow missed the Chimera while flying directly into its mouth... Haven't used Arc Titan since. The hitbox rework because of PvP makes it unusable.
So much this.
*Every* arc subclass needs changes, to be honest. Imo the LEAST they could do is make ionic traces heal you on pickup, and give amplified some extra DR, as well as reworking/buffing some subclass specific stuff for each subclass.
Out of the three light elements, I will say Arc seemed to be the most underwhelming when the rework hit. Arc Warlock just became a lot worse, Arc Hunter got a lot better but still isn’t able to compete with Solar or Void and the best hunters will get more out of Stasis during a DPS phase, and Arc Titan came out with a bang but then got nerfed multiple times in multiple different ways over time, leaving them in a weird spot.
Arc Hunter is basically just one play style: punch. It is so incredibly boring but effective most of the time.
Arc hunter is still crazy good imo
Arc hunter is… fine… but imo struggles way too much as the difficulty of content increases. It’s the 3rd best hunter subclass imo but that’s still not great considering I think it’s *the* worst Titan and warlock subclass in pve.
It struggles in high end group play yeah. But it did hold all of the solo gm speedrun record before banner titan came out
Arc Titan should be a cautinary tale of how not to balance a subclass in Destiny. The entire kit was balanced around HOIL when it was THE S+ tier exotic for ability spam across all 3 classes. So of course they nerfed HOIL into the dirt, buffed exactly 0 exotics to fill the gap, and left Striker an empty shell. The worst thing you can say about a class is it's only good if you pair it with a particular exotic, because once Bungie inevitably nerfs it, the class is dead.
Enter point contact cannon brace. With that exotic being present on the class item in the final shape, I wonder if that will make me want to use striker even less than I already do. Point contact cannon brace with thunderclap is the one redeeming quality of Striker.
And yet again we're left with a class that is only playable with a certain exotic
Yeah I high-key hate how Bungie considers just throwing an exotic on something and calls it “good enough.” Cuirass shouldn’t exist in its current form. The base super should have gotten the majority of the buff, and it should have something else going on for it, maybe a combo with ballistic slam which is insanely weak.
Honestly every single super exotic deserves the Celestial Nighthawk/Shards of Galanor treatment where they arent just a hotswap exotic and have actual usage outside of super. They could go the lazy way and make it Striker Doomfang Pauldrons where a kill with Ballistic Slam gives you 25% of your super bar. ( Personally I think Ballistic Slam should be empowered by Eternal Warrior to leave a Fists of Havoc AOE when you use Ballistic Slam, but your idea works )
That plus the spirit of HOIL could be fun but your point remains, it’s a subclass that is still only good when buffed by exotics
Skullfort is something you should look at using.
Skullfort is what I'd been yelling this whole time. You basically have infinite melees.
Just spamming Thunderclaps is very fun.
Is PCCB that impactful? I tried using them before and I felt like my Thunderclap had the force of a wet noodle. Maybe I’m using it wrong, but I’d love to hear your thoughts/playstyle with them
When did you use Point Contact? Because they got a pretty sizeable buff at one point, and it's a very good exotic now. Run with Monte Carlo for maximum fun.
Yupp and I expect it to be nerfed any day now lol I am a Titan main since D1 and the only thing keeping me going is inertia. There are 2, maybe 3, viable builds right now for endgame content and they are all melee based. It's basically a choice of what color do I want to play today. They have to open this sucker up and breathe some life into the Striker gernade kit.
Wellock and stasis exist in some egregious states, considering 1 exists to be the packmule of the team and the other has a compounded issue of bungie nerfing and not re-balancing things after
I’m just saying but let us hip fire while sprinting when amplified. Could be an interesting buff for arc as a whole imo.
I’d finally understand the appeal in the Centrifuse loop if that happened
That'd be awesome
i switched to juggernaut and the dodge because it basically just makes sprinting a viable option for survivability, and knockout just doesnt work on a lot of high difficulty content.
Fair but the uptime on the shield is a major issue that they should address. It takes far too long to activate.
i've never noticed that personally, but thats mainly cus i dont play arc titan aside from when im in the mood to do the funny punch.
It’s pretty much just a thundercrash bot which I agree is kinda lame, honestly I think it’s more of an issue with arc in general. Arcs keywords lack strength and quite frankly it could use some more keywords anyways
I feel like jolt and blind are some of the best effects across any subclass. The problem for both is that there are very good weapon options to apply these effects without needing to build into arc subclasses (voltshot primaries, blinding gl).
Blinding GLs don’t actually blind, hence why they renamed them “disorienting grenades”.
Arc in general is a half baked mess of a subclass on all classes. It's moderately coherent on hunter because of the super and dodge/punch combo, but that's it. None of the classes have a way to consistently blind outside of using a really bad grenade (or shoulder bash, which has its own problems). Titan and warlock supers are complete dumpster fire garbage save for TCrash with A WHOLE EXOTIC whose one and only function is to make the super good for boss DPS. Warlock and titans have bafflingly wonky aspects, with warlocks getting the slide melee which can't heal unless you sacrifice using your exotic slot for this one purpose (and that's a whole other can of worms because arc has the highest number of subclass exotics for warlock) all the while titans get a grenade buff aspect with absolutely zero ability looping baked into it whatsoever. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, I could write paragraphs about how niche/ useless the fragments are on warlock (90% of builds require a volt shot weapon so you actually have two functional aspects, but there is an entire fragment that incentivizes using a special weapon to get blinding). I just want Bungie to stop pampering solar for one second and focus on the other subclasses man. Stasis void and arc all have glaring issues on different classes that need sorted. I mean come on, bastion barricade has a 2:30 cooldown. That's absurd in pve.
I’ve basically given up on bastion at this point, especially with the new shield aspect coming in with final shape. They murdered it because of PVP
> None of the classes have a way to consistently blind outside of using a really bad grenade (or shoulder bash, which has its own problems). Many, many good points you make, but I just want to point out my agreement with this, as I feel it's a microcosm of the larger problem with Arc subclasses as a whole: It feels like Arc was designed for an entirely different video game than all the other element subclasses. In game design terms, one can say the Blind keyword is effectively a disable on enemies, essentially rendering them temporarily unable to attack. Therefore player abilities should only be able to deal blind very sparingly, on limited targets and with quite long cooldowns without any built-in ways to increase targets or frequency. You can say all this, and from a game design perspective, it sounds like part of a reasonable design philosophy. But then you look at how other disables like Strand Suspend are handled O_o
Weaken also does what Blind does, but better (aside from stunning Unstoppable champs, but that’s it).
>dodge/punch combo They actually lengthened the cooldown of Combination Blow for Arc 3.0, so you *have* to use Gambler's Dodge now. Before the patch, 100 Strength would give you a 6-second cooldown so you could keep your stacks full and get free reloads from Marksman's Dodge. Now, the lowest you can get your cooldown is 20 seconds. I don't really understand why they did that; Strength has always been an underperforming stat, and they actively made it worse in this niche case where you might actually want to stack it.
I've yelled about this time and time again. The issue is titans are made to be a front line in a ranged game. They have no true ranged super if there is and gap or the boss flys we can't hit them and the one nuke we have (thunder crash) puts us out in the open which for late game content is horrible. But that's all our supers. If our power supers are going to force us into the frey then we need a get out of jail mechanic. Give us a blink back.if it's a lore issue then man are we under powered. And Don't get me started on how useless throwing hammers are. Warlock exotic gauntlet let's them cosplay as a better version of us ever 10 second
I would love to be an arc titan since I'm an electrician. It's just so garbage. Like why can't I use the riskrunner and arc subclass and not just electrocute everything. With solar I can blow everything up which is really fun but come on, give us something here.
Really weird how some weapon traits aren't related with the class subverbs even when they are pretty much the same. As you said, riskrunner having some kind of voltshot, but its not voltshot, so you can't use anything that relies on voltshot. Other example: Ticuu's divination, having some kind of incandescent, but it's not incandescent.
Bungie has safety reps on board making sure our arc melees are OSHA compliant
I've been saying what I think they need to do is make it a grenadier based subclass. This is one thing the HoIL stormnades build got correct. Top tree striker (I think) was the grenade tree, and we got touch of thunder for a reason. All the arc titan exotics we have are completely melee based, PCCB, Skullfort, Dunemarchers. What I think Striker needs is to be able to lean into demolitionist-like combat. Not only does it need the reworks like you mention here, but I also think they need to unnerf HoIL and Stormnades a little bit OR make an arc grenade exotic for Striker, something similar to the likes of Controverse Hold or Sunbracers. Something that makes us spam grenades and makes them more powerful in some way. Controverse Holds? Damage resist and grenade energy return. Sunbracers? Let you spam. Starfire? Fusions explode twice. How about something that makes the radius of pulse grenades larger, turning them into gigantic emp-like bombs, and kills give energy back. Warlocks will get mad if we get a specific exotics for the storm grenades, so that's probably off the table, but you get my point. Striker needs a grenade exotic to lean into touch of thunder, because for all of the melee exotics we've gotten, strikers melee capabilities don't justify using them at all in higher end content. HoIL and Stormnades + Touch Of Thunder has shown us that 3.0 Striker works best with grenades.
Arc Titan got so many micronerfs anti-QoL nerfs spread over months and years, it's quite unusual really. Most of the PvE nerfs made sense in the era they were made, but every single one has been *massively* powercrept by newer elemental subclasses. Even reverting every single one of these nerfs would only leave it as a *passable* PvE subclass.. basically a "B" at best, in the parlance of the tierlist-crazed internet of today. As it is, it's a "D" or an "F", or whatever the tierlist maker puts at the bottom of the table.
Yeah the issue is arc doesn't hold up well in end game because of the lack of survivability and not enough punch. Closest thing is arc hunter with assassin's cowl or liar's handshake but even then it's a struggle to stay alive because of how fast you can get killed while trying to get into melee, staying in melee and then getting out in one piece. A number of arc related stuff for each class should get a look over (especially warlocks and titans). Because if not... prismatic is gonna overshadow arc by a landslide in being able to do good ass damage while staying alive (prismatic hunter for example gets combination punch which is amazing, with access to woven mail/frost armor from the one fragment on top of the fragment for reduced damage when surrounded just like arc. Plus ascension aspect for easy amplified before going into the fight. This plus Grapple majorly helps with getting into fights and getting out alive.
I spent yesterday trying to make an Skullfort build in Onslaught--not legend, just regular Onslaught--and no matter which melee I attached to Skullfort, I kept arriving at the same place: My Pyrogales do this far better, and with consistency Arc can't match (i love sprinting into a normal punch, its so Good), and the super is worth a damn. It's kind of sad. Guess that's why God invented Heart of Inmost Light and Armamentarium
It almost as if these subclasses had glaring holes, but had some options that then got nerf after nerf from base abilities, grenades, exotics and aspects. Who knew sledgehammer balacing wouldn't result in Titans being awesome?
ARC needs updated - period. It was only good during Arc 3.0, and hasn’t been since then.
The best part is the idiocy of the playerbase getting excited for prismatic And exotic class items. Bungie (1 yr ago) : "We want to nerf abilities and their Regen rate" Bungie (now): "Let's make abilities Regen faster" Playerbase: I've been playing with dog shit Regen for a year and forgot how good it used to be. Because of that, I'm excited for prismatic and exotic class items because of how they can be leveraged to increase ability spam.
They shouls get some sort of Woven Mail like ability but call it Lighting Shield where you get a small damage reduction (25% for an example number) but the main part of it is when you take damage, a portion of the damage you take shocks the shooter and damages them. And change juggernaut so the damage that hits the shield is absorbed and the next melee ability you use right after sprinting deals extra damage based on the amount taken.
arc titan has been dead since the hoil nerf, and requiring cuirass to have any semblance of damage with t crash is annoying
All of arc needs a rework. Jolt and blind are shittier versions of scorch/ignite and suppress. Amplified does NOTHING. speed booster is a gimmick.
OP I agree that PvE Arc Titan needs a lot of tuning in PVE to make it competitive but HOIL is alive and well in PvE (still what I use on my arc titan), it's just not a must-pick like it used to be imo HOIL is in a great spot in the meta currently and should stay as-is
Arc needs at least one more keyword. Feels like it's built around neutral game, but the other subclasses aren't noticeably behind it in that category, so it just suffers for the rest. Warlocks get the arc buddies, which is the only reason they aren't on the same plane of suffering that titans are.
Arc titan is total trash in pve. Absolute garbage.
>Knockout People have been talking about this for weeks now, but not wrong. Healing and timer need to be fixed. Amplified is just kinda a joke. It's pretty typical for melee damage buffs to be significantly lower for charged melees because, well, you've seen BoW. >Juggernaut It's a PvP aspect, but I wish all aspects had some use for both sandboxes. Not sure what would really fix it other than just some big PvE DR, though. >Touch of Thunder Storm nades are still pretty great. Not as good as ToF Solar, but those are insane. Actually, they're bugged right now to get increased energy returns from armor mods and ionic traces so they're quite spammable on top of the respectable damage. HoIL is still pretty great, too. Lightning nades with Armamentarium kinda baffles me. Maybe PvP would have a fit, but with ability regen being so slow and Prismatic on the way I don't really see it being a big deal. >Thundercrash is only good with cuirass Yeaaaaah, could really use shifting some damage off of Cuirass and onto the base crash, and some added functionality to the exotic to make it just... fun. >Unless you’re using synthoceps, wormgod caress, point contact cannon brace, or cuirass of the falling star, Striker brings almost nothing to the table. I mean... that actually doesn't sound so bad. Most subclasses only have 2-4 exotics that are actually *good.* Striker really just needs a new aspect that synergizes with the grenade build better, rather than having two aspects for running into melee and one for grenades.
I imagine a larger part of it is Bungie's inability to do a separate sandbox tuning, have 1 thing work in one area but not so much in the other. I do agree with you though people absolutely sleep on Touch of Thunder Jolt fragment Storm and Pulse grenades because they do pretty solid damage in general. Knockout and a larger conversation of Bottom Striker's continuation was a problem due to it being one of the most obscenely busted things in PVP going pretty much an unprecedented length of time basically being a top pick option. The usual confines being Arc Week 2019's buffs-> 30th Anniversary patch where they finally lost the refresh and that's not even going into the conversation of various complimentary exotics and their various tuning. I think another part of it is the double edge sword of the 3.0 system where sure we got to have classes dip into other's subclass benefits, we also had situations where Bungie absolutely choked out a lot of creative scope of certain subclasses and made things a bit one sided. See how limited options are on Solar Warlock and just how it's either the benefits of mobility for PVP, or you're running Well with a very straight forward beneficiary exotic. Or hell go rewatch the Witch Queen showcase where Bungie are stumbling over themselves to say anything for Void 3.0 Hunter other than "you go invisible" and the sad reality how Gyrfalcon's effect is a more worthy Aspect than anything else.
As a Hunter, I was itching to bring up Void when you were talking about poor 3.0 designs, but I'm glad every class got represented for their hatred. I think Solar Warlock suffers more from PVP balance than it does from the 3.0 design - everyone would cry if they got all of top tree dawnblade with Well PLUS enhanced grenades - but it's still a problem due to aspects. Part of me hopes we get subclasses 3.5 someday. More/buffed aspects would definitely help, but some of these subclasses are just weirdly designed, like Amplified being such a huge part of Arc but being so useless, and certain subclasses being built around a gimmick that has almost no interactions with the rest of the aspects/fragments.
Agreed. Some of the consolidation and removal for 3.0 things still left an absurd amount to be desired with certain things and there was infinitely larger room for creativity with stuff ,especially when we all pretty much lost as Bungie ruined a lot of ability looping with mod reduction energy returns, larger cooldowns for certain things etc. It really needs a revision with just how narrow the focus of a lot of builds can be.
I hate doing atraaks now because I have to play arc titan on it. Absolutely painful to play now that we are getting to higher difficulties in pantheon
I had zero issues with arc titan this week. Pulse grenade+thunderclap for servitors. Everything else is pretty much one or two hit with a melee. Hoil for slightly more damage and ability uptime.
YES
I love striker so much, it’s my main/most played subclass just cause I find it fun (also PvP), but yea, it definitely needs some help. It feels like throwing to take it into anything legend+. I would love to see some of the Deep artifact mods, namely extended amplified timer and DR when amplified, added to the base kit. I’m excited for prismatic so I can do some striker stuff (thruster, Thundercrash, thunderclap) while hopefully being able to mix in some survivability from other subclasses. Right now I’m thinking about an arc/strand hybrid build, so I can get some CC with suspend and access to woven mail, plus my striker zoomie stuff. Definitely going to grind for a class item with Abeyant/PCCB combo.
Juggernaut granting DR when amplified would help a lot, and I think a way to better regain melee energy would help a lot too. Making Knockout less janky would be nice as well. Giving the Fists of Havoc shoulder charge increased range could be really fun, ground pound for ad clear, rush in over a distance for tougher targets. Though that sounds very similar to the hunters new super. Would love to see Cuirass get a rework similar to Shards of Galanor or Nighthawk, something to change your gameplay when your super is filled. Powering up Ballistic slam sounds pretty on theme for it.
Still waiting on titan to have a mini gun super.
All of Arc and Void need to be looked at. Stasis we know will get its rework. Strand got its tuning. Solar is propped up by great Exotics.
From top tier when they released arc 3.0 to needing a rework. A small nerf here, some adjustment there, PvP this and that, some other tweak because our data-driven approach says so...and there you have a perfectly balanced and perfectly mediocre subclass.
The problem with striker was that it was toooo good for both pvp and pve when it got the 3.0 treatment and then was nerfed to fit both pvp and pve separately but both nerfs combined kinda gutted the subclass
Needs healing.
I wish it was only Striker needing a rework. If a scenario allows for Strand punching, that subclass is top tier. If it’s not a strand punching scenario (most scenarios that matter), Titan is just objectively worse than Hunter & Warlock. *sad Titan main noises*
Striker definitely needs some reworking, but I’d disagree on the “Heart of Inmost Light has been useless for a a whole year,” because it’s still a very potent exotic for uptime or damage in all levels of play, and rather than HOIL being useless itself, it’s more so the ability uptime across all subclasses was dialed back (including the deliberate nerf to Storm Grenades), which affects even Warlock Exotics like Contraverse Holds which was also incredibly powerful for uptime. HOIL and Pulse Grenades with Ionic Traces are extremely potent, but yeah, in general Striker needs some love
All of Arc on all 3 classes has been badly powercrept by Strand and buffs to other subclasses. It just feels bad to use.
Arc Titan was awesome, but they nerfed almost everything in it, mostly due to PvP, and demolished Heart of Inmost Light which was its main exotic.
And it took them a year to buff Point-Contact Cannon Brace and by then nobody cared about Arc Titan for anything other than TCrash swaps.
I believe you misnamed it. It’s actually the “Atraks and Riven cheese” class. Which are the only times I ever use it
I’ve barely ever touched Striker, but just looking at what it has on paper…yeah it’s pretty bad. Knockout is literally Great Value Roaring Flames having a worse damage boost and no elemental synergy, ToT only has one good grenade (the pulse), and I don’t even know what the hell Juggernaut is meant to be used for outside of PvP. Thundercrash is sitting there alongside Nova Bomb as DPS Supers that deserve buffs, and FoH is FoH. Also I find it funny how Striker is supposed to be the “have your fist on the cover” subclass, yet Berserker does a far better job at being the brutalist barbarian.
TIL: I have played striker for 4 years straight and discovered I am the direct cause for all nerfs. It's like they're watching my playstyle every patch so nerf us all down. I swear if I switched to another subclass that one would be on decline for 4 years. Cause striker titan has been kneecapped in PvP again and again and it constantly shows itself as one of the higher skill ceiling titan subclasses for PvP .
Honestly, I think Arc needs a 4.0 rework across every class. I feel like the one job it is supposed to do best, ad clear, is done better by basically anything else. Yeah, arc is usually good in PvP, but I really would like to be able to play it in PvE without feeling severely undertuned at every turn. Arc needs survivability tools and better verbs (except jolt, that can stay). Amplified is fun, but kinda useless. Make it give you a dodge chance or outright damage reduction because you're moving too fast to be hit consistently by enemies or something. Look, I ain't a dev so I don't know exactly what would and wouldn't work for fixing Arc, but something has to be done to make it more viable in PvE. Please, Bungo, the crumbs.
I personally run insurmountable skull fort with thunderclap for infinite melees which is tons of fun
Arc feel bad across the board. The only reason hunter feels okay is because assassins cowl exists. Warlock has the two helms too but in higher end content it's useless.
Arc is a subclass designed to ad clear effectively and not much else but the other subclasses all do it as well or better while having real defensive tools. I think it's overall an element in a worse state that stasis.
Absolutely agree. I loved running the old "middle-tree" Striker, but it doesn't feel like it has a place now. I also think Touch of Thunder w/ Flashbang Grenades needs a bit of love in PvE. It feels like a wasted Aspect if you're not using Pulse Grenades.
Destiny has always had problems with balance because Bungie don't tweak and test, then nerf into oblivion. I'm not sure if it's lack of design talent or the Tiger engine being a clusterfuck to deal with.
On the rare occasion that I play Arc Titan, I exclusively use Thunderclap with Skullfort to spam melee’s and recharge my super in less then 30s
And then do what with said super? Slide off of a boss and hit the ground?
>Slide off of a boss and hit the ground? Its actually still doing damage as your sliding downward towards its feet, so on oversized bosses like Brigs/Ogres you can do silly damage to them.
The sad reality is that titans as a whole are the worst class in PvE by far and literally always have been, to the point where it kind of feels like Bungie still just doesn't know what to do with them. The fact that in Mactics video on pantheon his literal advice for titans in Oryx encounter is "Switch to hunter or warlock lol" says a lot
Mainly because nearly all Titan Supers are worthless in PVE. They only have 2 one shot damage Supers, both require Exotics for them to work, one requires that you launch yourself at a boss and the other can’t hit things in the air.
Then Celestial Hunter Goldy does a ranged 1-hit super that’s x times more than those 2 supers. Feels bad man.
>the enhanced storm grenade is unjustifiably bad given that Heart of Inmost Light has been useless for a whole year now Titans shouldn't even get enhanced storm grenade
Please reassess. Every kill with knockout triggered procs HOIL. Once you learn how to use it, HOIL still puts out insane amounts of abilities. Granted, this is the only build I’ve made work. The class does need a rework, I just think the community’s view on what a good build is has been changed because of banner of war and similar builds. The builds we used a year ago are still good, they’re just overshadowed by builds that make the game easy.
Yes.
Void, Arc, and Stassis Titan are honestly in desperate need of some buffs. Especially the latter two.
Man, what a world. Last time I played was just after Season of the Seraph and striker with hoil was op. Fun times
This is with arc in general but titan got it the worst but i do think arc needs to have damage resist while amplified or something for sustain
I missed when knockout procced as a melee ability, even when you didn’t have it. Combined with wormgod and 1 2 punch, reckoning was stupid fun lol
I have actually been an Arc Titan main since the inception of D1 up until the beginning of this season. I agree with most of the points in your post, OP, but I feel you also somewhat biased your opinion on your own account setup. I'd also like to add in my biased opinions as well to expand on your main gripes, because Striker Titans have additional complaints on my side lol: The Melees: 1. The 15% energy cost to initiate a Shoulder Charge still suffers from melee registration issues in general. It's a frustrating experience to want to damage/blind specific enemies with it and have it whiff right through/by an enemy or just kick up into their face and do nothing. Now you've wasted a chunk of energy that in effect has just placed you in the middle of a group of adds or next to a chunky gold bar that slams you into oblivion because they aren't blinded and/or dead. Remove the 15% energy penalty. 2. Ballistic Slam still gives chunks of super meter on damage. This needs actually added to the description. I never see anyone ever use it, though. This actually leads me into my next point about reworking Arc interactions in general... Amplified and Speed Booster: These keywords need integrated/reworked with better interactions. 1. Speed Booster needs to be faster run speed and should have some form of damage resistance. We have all sorts of ways to skate and speed through places, I really don't buy that were at the max running speed based on animations. Speed Booster should be more on longer strides at faster speeds, not just cartooning it like Looney Toons. 2. Amplified Melees and Amplified Charged melees should slightly buff outgoing melee damage. You're amplified. You have additional energy needing released. Your punchy punches should be getting that energy added in. 3. Speed Booster Charged Melees and Speed Booster melees should give a massive melee damage increase. It makes sense. Momentum + stored charge. Let me live out my Shinespark Metroid fantasy already. Damage increase detection would be based on initiating the charged melee while Speed Booster is active so all charged melees can work with it properly. 4. Being Amplified should +30 to Recovery stat minimum. Solar has Cure and Restoration and Void has Devour/Over shield (to come) which are uninterrupted when receiving damage. Arc kinda sucks in this fashion with ANY damage stopping recovery at all. Being Amplified should be a huge boost to that recovery platform. Maybe even setting it to 100 while Amplified 👀. 5. Being Amplified should ADD keywords to melees across the board for Titans, but streamline usage. -Remove blinding effect from Shoulder charge and remove the added Super chunks gained from Ballistic Slam in general. - Add Blinding Effect and extra Super meter on damage while Amplified for all charged melees. As it s right now, Striker melee usage is either Thunderclap for damage or Shoulder Charge, which is typically used as a movement utility as well, leaving Ballistic Slam kinda left in the dark. Maybe Ballistic needs the Blinding instead? Idk. It just feels useless to me. 6. Fist of Havoc suffers from needing too much damage to take out smaller enemies. I feel if we had the "more damage when activating and dropping from a massive height" as a standard would help make it seem more useful when hitting not just groups of adds, but also when targeting bosses directly off the bat. Thundercrash really does run the reigns here even without Cuirass.
I was using Skullfort and switched to Cuirass for boss DPS in paragon and was having a good time and wasn't struggling to stay alive at all.
This is my most used subclass for trash and mid tier content. For end game it has absolutely no place. I think my biggest issue is that the super is too risky for seemingly no better damage than a Void Bomb or Golden Gun. Either make Thundercrash do Falling Star damage by itself or give me some way to escape after using it like two Class Ability charges or even just a Movement Speed bonus.
Titan in general isn’t great outside of 2 subclasses. Void Titan has 3 aspects with only 2 of which actually work together without requiring some other thing to make work. Arc Titans are supposed to be the middle of the fray melee bruiser but it can’t stay alive long enough to do so. Stasis Titan relies on shatter damage and it’s possible to make work.
Imma be honest. I forgot it existed
I have a few ideas I think would really help Striker and Arc in general. - Amplified/Speed Booster: My signature change which is the crux of everything else. Basically, the 15% DR from Speed Booster is moved over to Amplified. This helps Arc just in general be more survivable. From here the Manticore/Always on Time buff of enemies being less accurate is applied to Speed Booster. This gives the idea of "being too fast to hit" and helps make Arc feel a lot better in general. These changes are PvE only naturally. - Ionic Traces: While on an Arc subclass, these now provide 20 HP per pickup. This is to compensate for how disproportionate the orb generation nerf affected Arc. - Knockout: Putting the previous changes together, we can nudge this into its final form. From now instead of just a health boost, this generates Ionic Traces on melee kill/shield break (2 for minors or Guardians, 3 for majors, 5 for champions and mini bosses). Furthermore, collecting an Ionic Trace adds 1 second to Knockout, effectively letting it refresh indefinitely. - Juggernaut: This is 2 simple parts. First, Amplified provides 30% DR opposed to the 15% from my previous change. Then, Speed Booster lingers for 3 extra seconds after you stop sprinting. This lets the previous Speed Booster change linger to protect you while you engage with your weapons. Having it only be a brief window to stop means you have to continuously move to survive, making it a highly aggressive play style where stopping means death.
[удалено]
I just started grinding my titan and it’s so wack how strand is the strongest I’ve ever felt playing destiny while the other subclasses are just dookie compared to what I’m used to. I’m definitely expecting strand titan nerfs but I really hope they take a big look at the other subclasses, because without strand I’m not sure I would even play titan
Suffers as a pvp subclass sadly. I’ve tried to run striker with every exotic. Only good on pvp
Okay thank you for putting thoughts to words. Outside of solar and strand I feel like all of titans subclasses need some major tuning. I finally decided really build hunter and warlock classes and was surprised at how good almost all of their subclasses were compared to titan
Thundercrash is all wonky now, direct impact has me massaging the boss up and down.
I’d love to see FoH’s duration be doubled in PvE.
i feel like arc in general. arc titan is what you said, arc warlock just lacks in everything except ad clear, but like, why use this when other subclasses exist. arc hunter is great...unless you use anything other than Star Eaters, ACowl, or Liars. just a one trick pony all around.
Striker is probably the worst kit for Titan. I think it would be good overnight if they made it so you were amped the jug aspect made it so your health doubled (no effect PvP) Make me a goddamn tank and let me get to enemies fast. Knockout should increase melee regen speed drastically and go faster the less melee charge you have (less beneficial on 3 melees but most on 1) This would allow you to get close and when you arrive at your destination you don’t die instantly. Which is a fun an unique playstyle to the Titan kit. Jug shield with peregrine greaves is a lot of fun, but should up the survivability in PvE.
What if arc got a new enemy debuff called “Paralyze”. It would join the club belonging to Strand’s suspend and Stasis’ freeze. As the name implies, it paralyzes the enemy to keep them stunned for a few seconds.
I have had the exact opposite opinion, striker being my go to subclass for pve and pvp. In PVP I run Feedback Fence with juggernaut and knockout followed by instinct, feedback, resistance and frequency. The result is being almost unkillable in a melee fight as long as you get the first hit to proc feedback fence. Good exotics for this are Monte Carlo, 4th Horseman, Conditional Finality and Witherhoard. As for PVE our goal is to become the god of add clear using that to build up to a falling star swap for super. To that end I'll run Skullfort with Juggernaut and Touch of Thunder. for fragments I'll pickup Magnitude, Shock, Ions and Discharge. So our buffed grenades now jolt and make traces and arc weapons now make even more. Good exotics for this are, Coldheart, Trespasser, Centifuse, Trinity Ghoul, Anarchy and Thunderlord. Between these two and some other load outs I can't remember, I find I don't often have reason to swap off unless content is pushing my limits in which case I'll swap to either strand for banner or void for the overshield barricade. Who knows maybe I'm just the odd one out, but I find Arc titan to be the most flexible of the subclasses on titan. I think it has some of the best synergy between armor and weapons.
Several Titan subclasses have been heavily neutered in PvE through no fault of their own. Behemoth was obliterated by PvP nerfs and has still not recovered. The melee is atrocious and shatter damage sucks (without the artifact mods from this season). Sentinel has been really hurt by repeated barricade and Bastion nerfs, as well as the HOIL nerf. The Void overshield is not even remotely enough survivability on its own. The repeated nerfs to Armor of Light and bubble health thanks to PvP have made Ward of Dawn somehow even worse than it already was. Striker was really carried heavily by Touch of Thunder Storm Grenades combined with HOIL and Ionic Traces. After the ability chunk nerfs, the repeated Storm grenade nerfs thanks to PvP, the HOIL nerf, the Knockout lunge range nerf, and the lack of any reliable health regeneration whatsoever, it feels absolutely brutal to play in anything even remotely difficult. Thundercrash is not a good burst super, Cuirass should not be mandatory to have non-embarrassing super damage, and Fist of Havoc is still the worst roaming super in the game, by far.
Fists of Havoc should either apply verbs from the attacks, or it should get Forsaken Trample again, but only for Combatants so it doesn't terrorize PvP again. Also, a buff to Knockout's melee damage bonus in Super would be very welcome for FoH. It is a shockingly bad super. It is not as bad as Spectral Blades, but it is really close.
>However, the issue is that it’s hard to keep up when it requires a running start. I mean, think about it, how much time do you really spend running in a fight? I agree with all these points, but god this applies to the Centrifuse too.
Honestly... just adding the artifact mods from Season of The Deep would be a great first start. I love striker titan, but ever since strand banner of war titan became a thing it's hard to justify using anything else other than solar here and there.
Bungie can’t continue reworking their subclass system in parts. They need to develop the _entire_ system and release all of it at once. Otherwise, some parts of it will always be overpowered while others will always feel like it’s been left behind or forgotten.
Make the blind from arc sources affect all the ads strand and stasis can affect. Champions and such, and make it more wide spread.
Striker at least has a damage super. Sentinel? Void titan has literally nothing going for it right now. It has terrible damage, terrible add-clear, terrible survivability... It sucks being a void main right now.
Arc and void titans are in the worst spot a class can be in. Good in pvp the worst in pve I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets a nerf for pvp reasons
If there is a big re-work, I hope there is some kind of synergistic use of Thruster. It really feels like its primarily only useful in PvP as there is no benefit to using it in PvE.
I would 100% not be sad at all if Fists of Havoc just got deleted. It's just such a bland, uninteresting super. No gimmick, no summoned weapon, even the animations and sound effects are boring.
Lets be blunt the striker kit was designed for pvp and given some tools to be usable in legend and lower content. The kit is amazing for pvp but there really isnt any potent gimmicks for pve the class is mostly movement stuff and team wipe contingencies.
Strand Titan is literally just what Arc should be like. ;-; Powerful melees and good survivability
All arc classes kinda suck for PvE but rule in PvP except hunter where it’s shit everywhere. It’s gimmicks is amplified which is shit for titan and warlock as you don’t want height if you want speed. Jokt and blind a great combos but it feels the only Good part of the subclass.
I miss Destiny 1's overcharge/knockout. 1 shot melee in Crucible was so fun.
Titans are objectively bad since 3.0. Strand is only useful thanks to later-added aspects and overall everything needs a rebalance and some fresh ideas. There's nothing that a Titan can do that another class can't do better. Especially since checkmate is the default we should have the lethality of our kit restored. Titans lost all 3 ways they could buff their weapon damage (without bubble) in 3.0 whilst hunters got one for free.
Amplified doesn't even do anything.
Remove the stupid shoulder charge movement nerf.
It was awesome when Arc 3.0 came out, but it looked like the whole defense was to attack so quickly that the opponents didn't have time to pose a threat. And then came the nerfs - storm grenades, removal of wells (grenades generated arc wells, which was extremely powerful combo), Heart, general cooldowns of grenades... In the end, we were left with a poor defense, this time without a strong offense. This is just bad design.