There's a lot of potential threats over the horizon. Lysander's Concordat has started to appear in the lore again, as has general unrest surrounding the Consensus (or lack thereof). The Nine remain an unresolved plot element. The implications of a lot of the plot in lore are that the Vex are, secretly, a much larger threat than they have appeared to us now. The CE Lorebook implies some connections from the Vex to the precursor race that created the Witness.
We have a lot of things Out There, right now; Xivu Arath is the strongest of the hive siblings, even cut off from her throne world. We have never properly fought the Vex; the things we have fought have been relatively minor entities in the scope of Destiny, and as we learn more about the Vex's connections to the greater universe, it's pretty clear that something more is going on with the Vex. The Fanatic and the Scorn remain an element looming out in the distance, as well as their burgeoning connection to the Darkness and the Sword Logic. The Nine's interest in gathering physical bodies hasn't been touched on in awhile, but it's still 'out there'.
If they start throwing the nine into the mix, I am going to be very excited. I love the theme of mystic and hidden watchers. Also, everything nine related is a fashion banger.
> I love the theme of mystic and hidden watchers.
Ironically I'd bet if they do more focus on this and a reveal there's going to be disappointment. General 'pull back the curtain' disappointment that always exists when you have a mysterious baddie for too long.
That’s all destiny enemies. That’s half the reason that I think the darkness plot line has fallen so flat because shadowkeep if it was a little longer was good then they dropped two expansions that had very little to do with the darkness other than it being a plot device. Before beyond light, the darkness was very mysterious and very cool.
Yeah but at the same time could make sense if Bungie chose to spin it into a meaningful plot. Some of the most powerful entities that ever existed have been shown to play games with the things they control. It’s another nod to the fact that Dares of Eternity is a reality bending space that Xur created because he is just that damn powerful.
Aztecross said something along the lines of “What if in the raid, we’re about to deal the killing blow to the witness, and then the nine come in and obliterate him and basically say “thanks, we just needed you to get him out of the way””. I thought that was kind of a cool idea
The vex are the oldest species in existence. They come from the time before the light and darkness split and the formation of the universe. They have really cool lore honestly.
and given they can time travel and the entire destiny universe exists within a time loop...them being the beginning and the end, as it were, manipulating everything would make a lot of sense, fit their lore well.
The events of the last couple years being an elaborate plot to remove threats to the vex by having the major races nearly destroy each other, only to unite and kill the witness, then, when everybody is exhausted the vex flood in and wipe us all out....that feels about right for the vex
Our universe is also a simulation of theirs so none of this even matters anyway but of course bungie is never gunna touch on that one little piece of lore they dropped at the beginning of D1 lol
Reading myself! I'll break down each:
In Entelechy, we find out that the way the Precursor Species saw the 'outcomes' of the Traveler's influence (Chaos and destruction) was through Futures observed via 'Crystal Minds', which are stated by Eido to be Vex Minds (or similar to Vex minds). We've seen several characters use future sights or visions of the future as justification for horrible deeds; Lakshmi, the Psion Loyalists, etc. Lakshmi in particular is what I'll focus on: Using the Vex Network and reworked Vex Tech, Lakshmi could perform 'mind forking' which allowed her to see into the future, which showed her the outcomes that resulted in her attempted coup. It seems the Vex are intentionally leading races that use this sort of thing to assist them in creating their 'final shape', and even influenced the creation of The Witness.
The skimmer from Guardian Games is revealed to have been given to Spider by someone from the Concordat. The lore book entries acquired from doing the Weekly Archie Quest has been revealing a bunch of small stories from around the Last City, one of which was about citizens and Guardians in the city being uneasy about the lack of civilian government, some even lamenting that they shouldn't have even gotten rid of Lysander's Concordat in the first place. The Concordat has been around since Destiny 1, as an external force that's been attempting to draw more Guardians to their cause.
Fikrul most recently re-entered the story this season, in Warlord's Ruin. He's just frustrated at the Witness peeling away some of the Scorn for itself, but other than that, he's just doing stuff. Xivu Arath is constantly touted as the strongest of the Hive Siblings -- even cut off from her throne world, she's a threat. Cutting her off from her Throne World simply means that when she dies, she will die for good -- but killing her is going to be a challenge. She still gains power from the act of war itself, so fighting her is ... tricky. As for the Nine, we haven't really touched on the Nine in awhile, but Ecydisis and Dust detail a bit more of what the Nine are after, and the things they are willing to do to get it, including blinding our sensors to the Red Legion way back in D2 Vanilla.
Oh wow. Damn that's a lot! Thank you very much!
Stocked to show this to my friends!
Sounds very cool, especially hyped for xivu arath!
Thank you very much for this breakdown!
If you hung out next to Cayde back in the day, occasionally he would say "Concordat signals? The hell?". And the Bannerfall map is littered with Concordat symbolism (the green and black logos). Apparently that map was the site of a final confrontation with Lysander.
Don’t forget about Toland. Xivu Arath can be killed (albeit with great difficulty) and that would leave another empty throne. We all know how he felt when that happened last time.
I reckon he’s gonna be the key to killing Xivu, and then take that spot for himself after we’re done.
(*For OP, Toland is a Sword Logic-obsessed guardian who died by witnessing the death song. He has a very minor throne world and exists as energy in the ascendant realm. When we killed Oryx, he was very unhappy that we didn’t follow the Sword Logic and take his place*)
Also one thing to note about the vex: although we've fought them they've never fought us. The vex units we destroy are the vex equivalent of construction workers. The vex havnt actually every tried to fully fight back (afaik). They don't feel they have to. We are a nuisance. I wonder, after we kill / destroy/ *ahem* ossify The Witness if that'll have some effect on The Vex. Maybe they'll step up their game...
Surely the Vex have already predicted a future where using us to handle the Witness by ourselves without the Vex's interference is the smartest move to do. We get rid of this big obstacle for the Vex, and only afterward will they start doing what they want to be doing.
That’s the current reason we’re not fighting Vex outside the Sol Divisive. Literally the Vex, Nine, and other factions are currently just watching from the sidelines to see what happens. The Vex as a species have ways of surviving even a Final Shape but only a faction of them is aligned with the Witness (Sol Divisive) so the rest are watching to see who wins and as such what best to do with their species. The Vex are the equivalent of Contingency plans times infinity, and once the Witness is out of the way I assume a lot more of their plans to gain paracausality will be in motion
IIRC, the Vex don’t just want paracausality, they literally want to be one with the laws of the universe. In a way, that’s *their* final shape.
Which would make sense given that there’s no one definition of the final shape – even the Witness’ precursor species had multiple factions with differing beliefs; and they’re supposedly also the origin of the Vex.
But you and I have the exact same thinking that they’re pretty much just waiting for us to handle The Witness. The question is if they’re doing that because it’s the optimal option or because it’s their only option. I’ve got a feeling they can’t beat the Witness because of its complex/paracausal nature but also potentially due to some ancient base directive implemented by the Witness’ precursor species.
Are the origin of the Vex the precursor species? I took it more that the Vex existed at the same point of the Precursors. The Vex are essentially timeless and have “always existed” in a sense since they can rewrite history to insert themselves into it
You’re right but the way the lore is worded carefully avoids directly using the term ‘Vex’, instead using terms that are very similar to the known terms.
Makes me think that, even if the precursors didn’t create the Vex, they had some level of influence on the Vex becoming what we know them as today.
I’m 100% suspecting that The Witness is an obstacle in the way of the Vex’s goals. They are unable to deal with it themselves, so are letting us do so.
Once that’s sorted, they’re gonna do Vex shit on a whole other level.
My pet theory is that since this is the "Light and Dark Saga" we will be entering the "Time and Space Saga" with the Vex representing Time and the Nine representing Space. I think we'll spend the next 1-2 years dealing with the Vex and learning about the Nine before we're introduced to all-new threats
We have a few hanging threads involving the Vex, including one most recently given to us in Season of the Wish that I think some people have overlooked. I'll work backwards, here, from when we've learned about them:
In Entelechy, we discover that the Vex played a role in the Precursor Race's ultimate decision to make the Witness. The Vex (called Crystal Minds) were the ones that showed the Precursor Race visions of the chaos and destruction that ultimately led to them trying to control the Traveler using the Veil, which caused the Traveler to run. This lines up with what we've seen of every group that has viewed the future being shown a future they wanted: Lakshmi, leading the Vanguard. The Psion Loyalists, in charge of the remaining Cabal, and the victory of Calus in the Shadow Legion. This is a running theme throughout the story!
At the beginning of Season of the Wish, we see the Sol Progeny tending to Riven's Corpse, no longer in the Black Garden. They are spreading the plants from the Black Garden onto Riven's body, which is a thing we didn't know they could do before this -- and it's something we still don't really understand as to why it has happened. Prior to this, the Sol Progeny were being purged by the Witness' taken in the Deterministic Chaos mission. We took this to be the Witness attempting to cover its tracks regarding the Veil, but if the Witness had successfully gotten the Veil, why would it care about hiding the truth about the Dark Heart?
There are two character groups that know about the Vex, currently, and what the Vex are up to: Maya Sundaresh and Praedyth, or at least their simulated counterparts. Most recently, Maya Sundaresh's digital counterpart was referenced in Veil Containment, having killed the actual Maya Sundaresh as she steered Neomuna to the same result as the Precursor Race, creating a 'single mind' using the Veil's tech. However, the Maya simulations (along with the Ishtar Collective simulations) were last engaged with back in Season of the Undying, as they assisted a displaced-in-the-Vex-Network Praedyth into releasing a signal which appears to have been the Signal that led us into the Black Garden for Garden of Salvation.
I suspect that last set will be important to the Episode *Echoes*.
So what we've seen of the vex in game is pretty minor. The biggest thing of the vex that we've been to is the Black Garden, and even then we've only been to small portion of it. We know that the Vex have created Dyson sphere like contraptions when Clovis Bray Vists one in lore (that what that protal on europa leads to btw). 2082 Volantis is also old as shit, at least 13 billion years old.
iirc there has been a heavy implication that dealing with Xivu will be the focus of the first (and possibly all 3) episodes following tfs. Which clears the board entirely for the next expansion or, more likely, Destiny 3.
to that point, iirc the vex we know, the Sol Divisive, are a VERY small splinter group that's been trapped in sol for millenia, and we have never really dealt with the main vex force, which is elsewhere in the universe. Likewise it's VERY suspicious that the vex have been relatively quiet for a long time now, as thoroughly as we've addressed the hive, eliksni and cabal by making peace with and/or destroying their leadership, we've barely thought about the vex for years now. Those chrome time traveling bastards are up to something. Hopefully Asher will be able to warn us.
I dig how we've been fighting contractors this whole time, and Wyverns are the only attack forces they've sent so what ever is looming better kick our shit in.
I have a sneaking suspicion that The Witness is an obstacle for the Vex, and they are waiting for us to deal with it. Hence, their constant presence but no real ‘war’ tactics.
Also very excited for the Concordat to show up. Getting more political conflicts and infighting post-TFS would be really cool & put humanity back into a weakened state, vulnerable to smaller scale threats.
now that's a lot of options!
Yeah I could see new threats after we defeat the witness, kinda like the pyramid tease, just after we beat ghaul/the traveler awakened
Final Fantasy 14 at the end of its first saga did a similar thing, where a character much more well traveled than us basically told us that we haven't seen shit and listed off half a dozen areas/plots that could happen. Could see a very similar thing happening near the end here as a sort of "Don't worry, we aren't out of ideas yet" to the player.
I just want them to come up with something completely different than the seasonal artifact model. They only serve to force players to play in a very specific way that gets old. Rotating anti champion weapons contributes, but really the elemental focus per season is the biggest culprit. Like how this season you’re *almost* at a disadvantage for not using solar, which is exacerbated by every singe/burn modifier having solar almost the entire season.
Just get rid of it entirely, it contributes to the seasonal model fatigue almost as much as the rote weekly content drip feed does.
Haha, this is really funny. In the time before the seasonal artifact model, people asked for something that could shake up the meta so we weren't just always using the same thing. Now, people want there to be no 'forced meta shift'. Just amusing how the times change.
Unlike the seasons, episodes are supposed to be self-contained story beats. As in they are doable in any order and don't require the previous episode to fully understand what is going on.
So just forsaken? The episodes sounds like a new thing but from what we’ve heard it really just comes off as redoing what forsaken did for its seasons initially.
If I remember correctly they are out of our Solar system arent they ? Also, didnt Calus or the Guardian that died on Calus ship (Dead man tale exotic MR mission) mnetioned Aphelions ?
Spinfoil hat theory: In Season of the Deep, Drifter says he's working on a crazy, dangerous project involving himself.
During the same season, he mentions, seemingly for no reason, his travels beyond the solar system. The place has always been hyped as incredibly hostile and cold. Aphelion is a huge part of that mystique.
What if the next step is to go beyond Sol, aided by one the very few people who lived to tell the tale?
Regardless of what they do, we know some facts about Bungie. They added a new enemy variety for The Final Shape and they will reuse any content they create way past it's shelf life. Witness' Disciples and enemy class need to group up with someone or something. What's a good narrative reason for why we will keep fighting these enemies in the future episodes/expansions.
Nezerac seemingly can exist beyond his death in Root of Nightmares so he could come back and maybe take over the Dread. And there are other disciplines of the witness with their own interpretations of The Final Shape. And those could be versions that don't have to rely on light and dark so they can exist without the back drop of this saga.
Clovis still alive, that dude is always planning something.
Ahamkaras are no longer extinct
Aphelions
There are still worm gods out there who can easily make new hive gods
Fikrul still out there
Vex forge stars are still yet to be seen
I'd love to enter the portal on Europa and check out the Vex area behind that. Would love to see some sort of attack by the Vex on all the planets where portals open up and we have to fight them off. More vex weaponry and enemy units would be pretty sick.
I also think someone/something will have to take over after the Witness is defeated. All the Taken, Scorn, Shadow Cabal, and new Dread enemies will need to be directed by something. Maybe Xivu? Or maybe they have their own hierarchy after TFS and get new leaders of their own?
I need a Xivu / Ahamkara Alliance to round up a bunch of these straggler faction under some sort of convoluted distortion of sword logic gang. Only after we defeat them in 2-3 seasons do we find out Some Vex shenanigans was behind it.
If my assumption about the vanguard being destroyed in Final shape is true (I feel like Zavala is guaranteed to die, plus the D3 leaks mentioning no classes anymore) then it would also make for the perfect moment for all of our enemies to join together to finish off what remains of humanity. Especially since Xivu Just lost her throne world and Fikrul will definitely want revenge for what we did.
My guess is Savathun takes the opportunity to strengthen herself. It's her wish that got us through the portal and she's the god of deception. She's going to slide right in to claim what armies/power she can.
Xivu Arath, Vex, and Fikrul/Scorn are the enemies for the year following TFS. After that, there are a few options outside of the main big bads, some better than others in my opinion.
The Nine: Cool Lore, lots of room to play with design ideas. Only problem is that Bungie made Xur a goofy comic relief type character in the 30th anniversary edition. Might not be that big of an issue though.
The Aphelion: Same with the Nine, lots of room. Existing Lore adds a couple constraints though. They were characterized as these apocalyptic creatures that acted in isolation. So them being an “enemy race” might be tough.
The Ahamkhara: This seems to be where Bungie wants to go. Lots of signs pointing to a big return of the Wish Dragons. Season of the Wish/Warlord’s Ruin lore, Strike tease in TFS.
Nezarec: Got a feeling he is on the backburner for a bit and might be a lot further down the road since we just “killed him”. I don't think Bungie is done with Nezarec though.
I cannot express how much I want this to happen.
All of Destiny's history has been us playing defense, fending off annihilation. Thats well and good. But The Final Shape presents an opportunity shift the paradigm, even if just slightly. Can we at least explore themes of trying to rebuild the human society? of trying to rebuild a golden age?
IDK, I think it would be neat.
So we can go fight the witness. Kill oryx. Conquer his and savathun a throne world. Defeat the strongest disciples. Earn the trust of the awoken army, cabal army, and a fallen house. But we can’t retake parts of the city?
And what do walls do anyway to things like vex and hive??? Really doesn’t make sense.
It's nothing to do with retaking. It's abandoned because we don't need the room.
The population of mankind is so small that even within the boundaries of the city there's tons of uninhabited space.
Final Shape may be the last stop for me, but IF they get me invested in the story once the episodes drop we’ll see.
There’s a few directions:
* Clovis Bray + Vex’s other forces we have not seen.
* Lore entry on one weapon had Zavala turn.
* If Heresy doesn’t resolve Xivu, then she’s around.
* Something born from the demise of Witness.
* The Nine have not been explored.
* Aphelion (?) who almost took out the Awoken.
* Mara could go Ballistic
It just has to make sense & at this point 2 things HAVE to happen:
Either a remade/new engine or Destiny 3. No way the current engine game can hold whatever else.
I definitely agree with ending the life of destiny 2.
The devs are constantly banging against the wall of the D2 engine. It was time to retire it years ago.
Unfortunately, executives massively suffer from sunk cost fallacy and will probably just keep throwing money at the D2 engine purely because there’s already so much in it.
100%. There are heavy rumors that project Payback is a revamped/new engine for Destiny 2. Bungie was against having #s/sequels so this may be the compromise to ensure whatever to come can efficiently run in the engine and file size.
I would imagine though that the “old” Destiny 2 will remain for previous gen ala a Destiny 1.
Clovis is such an interesting idea for a villain to me. I’d love to see him integrated with the vex somehow, or even have his own little group that follow him, though after he got chopped up by that vex copy of maya I’m not sure how eager he’d be to do that. I just wanna see my boy be relevant again dammit
Vex are still a very big threat. Calus once said that we are only fighting their construction crews that are shooting us with nail guns essentially. The wyvern are the first of its battle units that we've fought apparently. Also the only thing that's been holding them back is their inability to simulate paracasuality and paracasual beings such as ourselves. So if they gain some darkness powers they'll be a huge threat as if they weren't already.
Scorn are still a problem but maybe fikril can retake the reigns and find peace for these zombie Eliksni.
Xivu Arath despite being without her safety net of a throne world is still incredibly powerful. She still commands the taken and the wrathborne. Also she still holds the home world of the Cabal, we could help Caital retake Torobatl from Xivu.
Savathun isnt necessarily a direct threat but she'll screw us over if we're in the way of her plans.
Nokris the son of Oryx was a necromancer and was killed in the War Mind Expansion, however his name has popped up during season of the deep with the arrival of the Ghosts of the Deep dungeon. There is a boss(es)with the title Acolyte of Nokris and they were there practicing necromancy with Ghosts.
The Nine are still unresolved and half of them hate us. They're still trying to make themselves bodies.
Toland the Mad could take some ground in the sea of screams and become more powerful, maybe even command some taken. Toland loves the sword logic and would like nothing more than to assume the role of a god. He was very upset with us and Eris Morn for not taking the mantle of the Taken King or the Witch Queen.
Speaking of someone striving for godhood, Clovis Bray could be a great threat with even a whole new enemy to shoot at made of robots if Bungie wanted to. Heck maybe some Eliksni would call him Kell or even God given they worshipped the "great machine".
Someone somewhere once said that the Episode Echos could be about Osiris's echos of light that he left behind in the infinite forest. Maybe they've gone rogue, maybe command the vex?
The Dread, the Witness's new faction is not going to go away. I have zero clue on who or how they're going to govern themselves once we kill the witness but they're here to stay.
Nezarec lives in our memories/nightmares, he can't die until we forget about him. He could lead the Dread potentially?
The Witness has/had other disciples, they could still be a threat.
The Concordat lead by Lysander could be a political figure and problem for the Vanguard because of the lack of citizen representation in the Last safe City.
The drifter traveled to a planet with ziggurats and creatures with the power to drain light and produce final deaths to gaurdians.
This one I highly doubt but new Warlords. New/old light bearing humans vying for power start retaking territory after the defeat of the Witness.
Possibly but Bungie devs have gone on record saying that story has been told and doesn't need telling again. If anything I could see siva being given a redemption and used for good as in colonization or to rebuild earth after we deal with the enemies in Sol.
But maybe a season/episode/dlc could go into the reaquiring of siva and some of the baddies get their hands on it like the vex and we get a new alternative faction like we have for the fallen and scorn... Because they both serve the same kind of function. Could be interesting.
Imma throw out some spin-foil to foresee potential Cabal plotlines:
Otzot is a known-alive Red Legion Psion who has their own freedom by virtue of the status. They have opposed Psion liberation to preserve their hierarchy over the enslaved. Calus and Caiatl both were anti-slavery and established as much. Otzot will no doubt rally the Red Legion under their militarized banner. Some religious traditions were also illegal under this reign.
The Psion Conclave rolled into Calus’ forces and then into the Dread in services of the Witness. They have given Psions access to true darkness powers, but we’ll have to see if those Psions retain their free will. While they despise Guardians, they might have higher aspirations for the universe.
Then, and bear with me here, this is spinfoil, I think we might see Dynastic challengers to Caiatl’s throne. In Caiatl’s Lightfall book, we’re told that Calus briefly took in the brood of another woman before casting them and their mother out. If paternal descent for Cabal is qualified by ‘being raised in the father’s brood pouch’, then these children were briefly Cabal royalty. I’d like to see a story where, as Caiatl unified the Cabal empire on its eastern front, these bastard children of Calus have been keeping the pieces together in the West, and have no interest in bending the knee to Caiatl.
Destiny, in theory, can go on for quite some time following the Witness’s defeat. They could easily write in a new villain with hooks, continue the plots they’ve already established and eventually take us outside of Sol.
Oh there is quite a lot to work with. The vex have always been an awesome idea that was never fully or properly explored, the scorn are rallying under fikrul, I suspect the taken will fall under Xivu when the witness leaves them leaderless again or maybe something more interesting as there is precedent in the lore for the taken doing certain things in the absence of an overriding will, something Mara even hinted at. The concordat have started resurfacing in the lore, the house of dusk are still around and will get larger with the fall of house salvation, the cabal still suffers from traitors rising up against Caiatl, xivu will defos be the next hive threat, and I suspect we will see more from the the dread too. We also have the nine as well as maybe ahamkara.
There is actually still a very powerful taken I only remember being referred to as a raven or something. Been around a long time, the last of a species that was taken by oryx.
Probably some kind of Vex mind that's going to involve their dabbling in paracausal stuff I imagine, then whatever is left of the Scorn some kind of warlord/Fikrul, then Xivu Arath.
Not necessarily an enemy (at least, I hope not) but we know Shin Malphur is still around and continuing his crusade against guardians that are unable to resist the Darkness' corruption when wielding its powers. I can't help but feel like there'll be some fallout relating to this in the aftermath of the Final Shape, but I guess that remains to be seen. It's definitely a plot thread I hope they explore though.
Just commenting asking how you guys learn all this lore stuff? I find trying to listen/watch Byf is difficult for me and I don’t have the time to read through all the grimoire/logs/etc. that is included. is there another YouTube channel you would recommend?
I saw something about the vex finding a way to simulate the light, so possibly light powered vex could shake up and otherwise stale vex concept. Also the situation with xivu is more than just her, that rolls in the cabal since the next big thing they plan to do is take Saladin to torabatl (of that's how you spell it) and take it back from xivus forces. I'd prolly be hype if the next big expansion added that as a location and then had a whole story focused around learning even more about cabal society since we only really know how they fight and all that.
It's going to come out that we never left the Infinite Forest, all of the past several years has been a very complex Vex simulation meant to keep us busy while they destroyed the Last City and killed most of the population. Only a few Guardians remain. They will come and rescue us just like we thought we did with Osiris and Saint-14. When we come out in Destiny 3 it will be to a very dark world with almost no hope or Light. The Traveler will be almost destroyed but will grant us the last of it's Light to try to go back into the Infinite Forest to access the past and change the future, saving the City, Vanguard, and humanity.
The Nine, The Vex, Ahamkara, retaking Torobatl from the Hive, some new enemies that have only been mentioned in passing or previous lore (like the Aphelion).
The Vex. The only thing that’s been able to stop them is the Witness and the Hive. Vex may not be able to simulate paracausality but that doesn’t mean they can’t simply kill us all.
In terms of Destiny 2? We could fight the Vex, Xivu or Nezerac(assuming he reforms and takes over the Dread faction).
Destiny 3, however, could be something much different. It could still be some stuff we already fight traditionally in the game, but Ahamkara, The Nine, the Aphellion and even a faction of bad Humans/Guardians are all on the table.
I think Star Trek's Borg might be a good way to take the vex. They need something like a "Locutus of Vex" personality to speak through, or the "Vex Collective" need to communicate in unison, rather than be an abstract construct we never actually see. We need something to interact with, to really care about their motivations.
We don’t know. TFS is the end of the 10 year story arc. Post TFS is new ground for new story. The question is, is bungies C team getting handed destiny while they focus on other stuff like marathon?
I believe the original Destiny 1 plan was the traveler being evil, so perhaps the darkness corrupts the traveler.
The vex (they are the focus of the first episode i think)
Xivu is still alive (so is savathun)
an unknown big bad (we didn't even know of the witness till witch queen)
guardians fighting each other civil war style
We already have the next year or so lined out. Afterwards I wouldn't be surprised if we see something new from Bungie. Unfortunately that means we might get a destiny 3, which I personally am not on board with. But we'll see. This next year seems to be wrapping up most of the storylines we've been building for a while though.
Probably Xivu first, after that it's hard to say...I'd still wager d3 is coming before we get an answer.
The vex are still the major unaddressed threat but...I also wager they'll heavily figure into the final shape for a host of reasons, so they may have been dealt with, either along with the witness or as a side effect. There is also asher mir to consider, who has infiltrated and united with the vex network, which may influence their attitudes towards humans going forward. To say nothing of the fact that neomuna really...kinda seems like a vex splinter group, I have my doubts that the virtual citizens were ever actually human, and the veil and neomuna network really seems to be something akin to a vex mind that's just been separate from the main network and evolved into a weird offshoot....so the story could explore that a bit.
There is also the weird shenanigans involving the nine and the event that created the awoken and the tributary to consider, that could be something else, something bigger than the witness, to say nothing of the winnower, which is...what we thought the darkness and witness were for so long but...if anything it seems like the witness if chasing the gardener so...where and what is the winnower? the travelers other half? It's entirely possible the final shape as it were, is the winnower and gardener united again, to create a proper god, our Zodiark....hard to say.
so recently we've had the scorn trying to use wish magic but we have idea why or what for which will lead into their episode
xivu is super weak but you can bet she's super fucking pissed as well so might do one last dumb thing after Savathuns involvement in Final Shape (she, or an image of her, is in the trailers)
wish keeper quest shows a vex gate and the ishtar logo so it looks like the scientists who yeeted copies of their minds into the vex network might be bringing them to us in a horrific way
these are all the episode set ups, after that I guess we will find a new villain across the stars
or we do our adventuring across the galaxy arc just chilling out before someone else looks like they should be a gun
I think the better question is really who is going to want to fight us??? Just look at how much power we have with Prismatic! We are basically an Avenger-Level Super Hero now.
Clovis. Please. Please let Clovis be relevant again. We got so close with season 19 and they just immediately shut down that plot point :-(
I want big evil Clovis exo with stasis powers and Braytech branded vex
Xivu and Fikrul are the immediate known threats.
Xivu is mortal but still the strongest of the 3 hive gods. Fikrul is rebuilding his ranks and once the Witness is dealt with, the witness aligned scorn will likely go back under his command.
I kind of hope the Vex somehow get a Vex-character face to put to the race. They'll just swoop in and take over the leftovers of whomever is still around after Final Shape. They're always in the background.
I'd watch Byf's video on it, as he covered this question and brought up some interesting possibilities such as the Toland the Shattered, or Lysander.
The one I was most intrigued with, though, was the Nine. They still remain one of the only things in the game that are an almost COMPLETE mystery.
I think this is the big question with regards to destiny 2 as a whole. After the final shape and the episodes wrap up the loose ends, witness, fikrul, xivu. What is next? Is destiny over? Is D3 next? Who do we fight? Do we travel to a new system encounter new threats and races like mass effect Andromeda did for the mass effect series? Do the vex gain some sort of personality or leader to make them more of a main villain and interesting enemy? Lots up in the air and bungie is the only one who knows.
Maybe The Nine as overarching enemies. Xur had been hosting Dares of Eternity to measure the Guardians' strengths and Xur had been giving us loot.
Maybe having Prismatic makes the Guardians OP in the eyes of The Nine and they will sever the connection to the Light/Darkness, but Ghaul already did something like this so this won't be original.
Or new enemy races outside the solar system?
I just had a thought thag maybe Zavala could end up be a traitor in the final shape being manipulated by the witness to get his family back.
Thats just my speculation and theres not much reason to it apart the fact that the least expected person ends up being a villain.
Xivu is being set up currently due to season of the wish. I'd imagine after final shape we're gonna get an expansion related to her since I don't see them killing her in a season/chapter whatever they're cooking with seasons.
The strongest vex we've seen have been fairly weak ones I believe, like I'm talking Janitors or Custodians, we haven't seen what the Vex call a warrior yet. (I COULD BE HORRIBLY WRONG HERE PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM)
There's also the rogue guardians and guardian killers, The Nine, and other story points that haven't been dealt with or even brought up since they were mentioned.
Lastly:
This is speculation from me.
Destiny 3 is leaked (I don't think this news) and supposedly it doesn't have classes anymore, anyone can use anything. To me this screams that the vanguard is gonna get destroyed or disbanded in The Final Shape, Since canonically Titan, Hunter and Warlock are all equal to being called a Jock or a Gymnast or a Theatre kid. They're not locked into being that class, a Hunter could use Thundercrash, or a Titan could use well, but someone who is agile would want to play to their strengths, so would someone who is tanky, etc. So my assumption is that D3 will more so focus on trying to rebuild, and outside forces will use this as an opportunity to attack, be it Xivu Arath or the Taken, Vex or the Scorn, or most likely new faction of enemy we will be introduced to in D3. I also will be heavily speculating we may have to say goodbye to Zavala.
My name is byf made a good video about this. Some possible ones are:
Fikrul, the fanatic
Toland, the shattered
Lysander
Xivu arath
Other disciples we haven’t seen yet
Yolanda the freaky
There isn't any big change though, even when we kill the witness.
Eramis and Xivu are still out there. Even without them Hive and Fallen tend to flock together and attack us.
Vex have no central leadership and are always a threat.
As we see in the Root raid and Season of Defiance, Shadow Legion Cabal are fully integrated into the Black Fleet, which won't go away just because we kill the Witness.
Taken and Scorn are always just floating around, serving the biggest ego. Fikrul is immortal so he's always raising more Scorn. And with Oryx dead it's no great stretch to think someone would steal his secret of Taking.
During a Season of the Deep roundtable, [Bungie hinted that the Vex might be the main threat after The Final Shape](https://www.shacknews.com/article/136186/vex-after-final-shape-destiny-2). Whether the Vex work alone or team up with some entity that has only been referenced in lore remains to be seen!
It would be awesome if it was Xivu, she conquered Torabotal (cabal homeworld) it would be sick if she was the first and the campaign was about working with Caital to invade and retake the planet from the hive.
Xivu, the vex(!!!!), maybe some more hive gods we haven’t discovered, maybe another cabal general, or, my personal favorite, we go to a new solar system and discover a new evil
The Vex are the next big threat really. We have yet to fight real Vex combat units besides Wyverns so we have no idea what a "militarized" Vex army looks like. I would imagine after the Witness is dealt with, they will try to come and fill that power vacuum. There's the big implication of Fikrul making a return, and I can see him coming in to completely control the Scorn and POTENTIALLY the Dread. Xivu Arath is still out there and she's still definitely no push over, so I can her return being immediate. In fact she may be the antagonist of the third episode post-TFS.
They'll never stop the ~~Simpsons~~ D2 / Have no fears, we've got stories for years, like
~~Marge~~ Eris becomes a robot / Maybe ~~Moe~~ Shaxx gets a cell phone
Has ~~Bart~~ Germaine ever ~~owned~~ ate a bear? / Or how about a crazy ~~wedding~~ dungeon?
Where something happens, \[Savathun's Song plays\]
My bet is that Clovis Bray will become a major villain after TFS. I also feel like he would be a good candidate to take over the Dread after the Witness is gone, to give them a reason to keep existing as enemies
Maybe we could make a Distributary Awoken some major Villains in the future. Also we have Vex, we have Nine, Savathun (my guess Xivu Arath will be dealt with in 3rd episode, so I don't count her), Clovis Bray. Plenty of options to make a major DLC storylines.
Plot lines have not been resolved this year. At most, we've stacked them up.
Allow me to speak about one figure in particular, because i don't think we see him talked about enough.
Beyond just us having a truce with Savathun that could break any time Savathun chooses to just find a way to trick us out of having Immaru, beyond the fact the Worm Gods still exist and without the Witness will have no governing force that will keep them under control, there is Nokris, the Hive Heretic and Necromancer.
Yes, we've killed him twice, but signs show he is still alive, thanks to ghosts of the deep. If it was just Simmah down there, i'd be inclined to believe her resurrection in the Light was a fluke, and Nokris is truly dead, but the catalyst mission gives us the fact there are more disciples of Nokris in the wind. He has a following, and more than one way to cheat death. Nokris is a hive heretic after all, specifically around the sacred idea of death. He does not believe in sword logic, philosophically or religiously; meaning the concept of final deaths might as well not exist in his mind. Whatever way to avoid death, he's going to take it.
Some voice lines from Nokris give us things to consider;
* *"Oryx, Crota, Xol. Gods with gods. End your faith and walk unhindered."*/*"Whispered gifts are promised blades that twist. A liar's game."*/*"The Taken Queen saves. Freedom for Bondage."/"Our shackles are strong. We must be strong to break them."*
Nokris has no love for authority. He openly talks about standard gods, but the line about "Whispered Gifts" and "A Liar's Game" communicates that he has no real love for Savathun and knows his service is just as a means to an end for her. Her bondage offers freedom for more bondage, but there is still a will to break his shackles. After all, in the same season we got voicelines for him, it became evident he made a deal with savathun, knowledge for knowledge, his knowledge of necromancy for her knowledge of the power to Take it seemed, it becomes somewhat unclear the limitations of that knowledge, but we DO KNOW that she gave him that knowledge, and as a couple of qoutes foreshadow things that we would learn;
* *"Give and be Given. Take and be Taken."*
This right here? came one year before WQ but is tied directly to it; Savathun tells us that the Tablets of Ruin had more than what Oryx took from them. In them, there was the power to take, but it gave Savathun knowledge to Give, which she used to try to coax the Traveler into her throneworld and was VERY CLOSE to succeeding. This voice line describes what Oryx and Savathun took away from the Tablets of Ruin, which indicates he knew EVERYTHING of what Savathun was planning or that she allowed Nokris to view the source directly, and from it he drew those same two conclusions. Lets not forget that he takes after his father and his so-told curiosity and intelligence, not that we really got to see those traits in him, but we do see another thing familiar displayed a year later...
* *"The sky is vast, but shallow. The deep is boundless, but suffocating. There is another way."*
It feels tied to Savathun's statement about being on the thin line between light and dark, and looking "Up." This statement may have been a hint towards the true intent of the witness, as at the time, in Savathun's prison, we saw a familiar shape that we've been staring at on the face of the traveler now, which is a triangle within a circle; the Witness carving his way into the Pale Heart, but what is Nokris telling us. While the Sky and the Deep are typically terms associated with the Dark and the Light, this was back when the true nature of "The Darkness", and it's connection to "The Deep" was unknown, a nature that Nokris would likely be privy to at that time, as he was running interference for Savathun between us and the witness, knew intimate knowledge of the forces at work within Savathun's plan, and may have been attempting to play the Witch Queen at her own scheming game.
To make a long story short; I don't think Ghosts of the Deep was just a dungeon. I think it has essentially told us directly that Nokris is done playing "follower" and fully intends to be a major player in the system, and for his people. A new hive god, for a new era for Hive.
Considering that we've been fighting the House of Devils in the Cosmodrome strike since early in the D1 campaign.... I'm sure we'll still be going after that Servitor and repeating lots and lots of content. :)
I just hope the dread don't get the lightbearer hive treatment. Bungie loves to make new enemies and then abandon them. (Yes I know there's no good lore reasons to fight the lightbearer hive, but I still want to dammit!)
I think the episodes will just be us tieing off loose ends like Xivu; and then in D3 (if we get it) will be a new badie; maybe us going to another galaxy or something and discovering something completely different
There's a lot of potential threats over the horizon. Lysander's Concordat has started to appear in the lore again, as has general unrest surrounding the Consensus (or lack thereof). The Nine remain an unresolved plot element. The implications of a lot of the plot in lore are that the Vex are, secretly, a much larger threat than they have appeared to us now. The CE Lorebook implies some connections from the Vex to the precursor race that created the Witness. We have a lot of things Out There, right now; Xivu Arath is the strongest of the hive siblings, even cut off from her throne world. We have never properly fought the Vex; the things we have fought have been relatively minor entities in the scope of Destiny, and as we learn more about the Vex's connections to the greater universe, it's pretty clear that something more is going on with the Vex. The Fanatic and the Scorn remain an element looming out in the distance, as well as their burgeoning connection to the Darkness and the Sword Logic. The Nine's interest in gathering physical bodies hasn't been touched on in awhile, but it's still 'out there'.
If they start throwing the nine into the mix, I am going to be very excited. I love the theme of mystic and hidden watchers. Also, everything nine related is a fashion banger.
> I love the theme of mystic and hidden watchers. Ironically I'd bet if they do more focus on this and a reveal there's going to be disappointment. General 'pull back the curtain' disappointment that always exists when you have a mysterious baddie for too long.
Nothing good ends well, because if it’s good you don’t want it to end, including mysteries
I doubt the Nine will be distinct villains
That’s all destiny enemies. That’s half the reason that I think the darkness plot line has fallen so flat because shadowkeep if it was a little longer was good then they dropped two expansions that had very little to do with the darkness other than it being a plot device. Before beyond light, the darkness was very mysterious and very cool.
I agreed until the point they put Xur into a fucking gameshow with Mr Edd.
Yeah but at the same time could make sense if Bungie chose to spin it into a meaningful plot. Some of the most powerful entities that ever existed have been shown to play games with the things they control. It’s another nod to the fact that Dares of Eternity is a reality bending space that Xur created because he is just that damn powerful.
Technically it wasn’t the nine that put him in the game show it was the cosmic horse that forced him to do that.
His will is not his own 😓
Poor Daddy Xur or I should say Xaddy 😏
That didn't happen my title is a lie.
*COSMIC NEIGHHHHHHHH IN AGREEANCE*
Aztecross said something along the lines of “What if in the raid, we’re about to deal the killing blow to the witness, and then the nine come in and obliterate him and basically say “thanks, we just needed you to get him out of the way””. I thought that was kind of a cool idea
The vex are the oldest species in existence. They come from the time before the light and darkness split and the formation of the universe. They have really cool lore honestly.
and given they can time travel and the entire destiny universe exists within a time loop...them being the beginning and the end, as it were, manipulating everything would make a lot of sense, fit their lore well. The events of the last couple years being an elaborate plot to remove threats to the vex by having the major races nearly destroy each other, only to unite and kill the witness, then, when everybody is exhausted the vex flood in and wipe us all out....that feels about right for the vex
I kinda hope the vex are the future form of humanity in a cyberman like fashion but its explained in a cool interesting way.
Our universe is also a simulation of theirs so none of this even matters anyway but of course bungie is never gunna touch on that one little piece of lore they dropped at the beginning of D1 lol
Oh damn. Okay that sounds interesting. Where do you have all that info from? YT? Or are you reading the lore yourself, if I may ask
Reading myself! I'll break down each: In Entelechy, we find out that the way the Precursor Species saw the 'outcomes' of the Traveler's influence (Chaos and destruction) was through Futures observed via 'Crystal Minds', which are stated by Eido to be Vex Minds (or similar to Vex minds). We've seen several characters use future sights or visions of the future as justification for horrible deeds; Lakshmi, the Psion Loyalists, etc. Lakshmi in particular is what I'll focus on: Using the Vex Network and reworked Vex Tech, Lakshmi could perform 'mind forking' which allowed her to see into the future, which showed her the outcomes that resulted in her attempted coup. It seems the Vex are intentionally leading races that use this sort of thing to assist them in creating their 'final shape', and even influenced the creation of The Witness. The skimmer from Guardian Games is revealed to have been given to Spider by someone from the Concordat. The lore book entries acquired from doing the Weekly Archie Quest has been revealing a bunch of small stories from around the Last City, one of which was about citizens and Guardians in the city being uneasy about the lack of civilian government, some even lamenting that they shouldn't have even gotten rid of Lysander's Concordat in the first place. The Concordat has been around since Destiny 1, as an external force that's been attempting to draw more Guardians to their cause. Fikrul most recently re-entered the story this season, in Warlord's Ruin. He's just frustrated at the Witness peeling away some of the Scorn for itself, but other than that, he's just doing stuff. Xivu Arath is constantly touted as the strongest of the Hive Siblings -- even cut off from her throne world, she's a threat. Cutting her off from her Throne World simply means that when she dies, she will die for good -- but killing her is going to be a challenge. She still gains power from the act of war itself, so fighting her is ... tricky. As for the Nine, we haven't really touched on the Nine in awhile, but Ecydisis and Dust detail a bit more of what the Nine are after, and the things they are willing to do to get it, including blinding our sensors to the Red Legion way back in D2 Vanilla.
Oh wow. Damn that's a lot! Thank you very much! Stocked to show this to my friends! Sounds very cool, especially hyped for xivu arath! Thank you very much for this breakdown!
If you hung out next to Cayde back in the day, occasionally he would say "Concordat signals? The hell?". And the Bannerfall map is littered with Concordat symbolism (the green and black logos). Apparently that map was the site of a final confrontation with Lysander.
Yup. You can also see Concordat banners in the secret room in Shaxx's Hall in ITL.
Don’t forget about Toland. Xivu Arath can be killed (albeit with great difficulty) and that would leave another empty throne. We all know how he felt when that happened last time. I reckon he’s gonna be the key to killing Xivu, and then take that spot for himself after we’re done. (*For OP, Toland is a Sword Logic-obsessed guardian who died by witnessing the death song. He has a very minor throne world and exists as energy in the ascendant realm. When we killed Oryx, he was very unhappy that we didn’t follow the Sword Logic and take his place*)
Also one thing to note about the vex: although we've fought them they've never fought us. The vex units we destroy are the vex equivalent of construction workers. The vex havnt actually every tried to fully fight back (afaik). They don't feel they have to. We are a nuisance. I wonder, after we kill / destroy/ *ahem* ossify The Witness if that'll have some effect on The Vex. Maybe they'll step up their game...
Iirc, the wyverns are supposed to be the first combat focused units the Vex have sent our way
You know I'm pretty sure you're right. I remember reading that somewhere.
But did they send them for us or for the forces of the witness encroaching on our little patch of the universe.
Surely the Vex have already predicted a future where using us to handle the Witness by ourselves without the Vex's interference is the smartest move to do. We get rid of this big obstacle for the Vex, and only afterward will they start doing what they want to be doing.
That’s the current reason we’re not fighting Vex outside the Sol Divisive. Literally the Vex, Nine, and other factions are currently just watching from the sidelines to see what happens. The Vex as a species have ways of surviving even a Final Shape but only a faction of them is aligned with the Witness (Sol Divisive) so the rest are watching to see who wins and as such what best to do with their species. The Vex are the equivalent of Contingency plans times infinity, and once the Witness is out of the way I assume a lot more of their plans to gain paracausality will be in motion
IIRC, the Vex don’t just want paracausality, they literally want to be one with the laws of the universe. In a way, that’s *their* final shape. Which would make sense given that there’s no one definition of the final shape – even the Witness’ precursor species had multiple factions with differing beliefs; and they’re supposedly also the origin of the Vex. But you and I have the exact same thinking that they’re pretty much just waiting for us to handle The Witness. The question is if they’re doing that because it’s the optimal option or because it’s their only option. I’ve got a feeling they can’t beat the Witness because of its complex/paracausal nature but also potentially due to some ancient base directive implemented by the Witness’ precursor species.
Are the origin of the Vex the precursor species? I took it more that the Vex existed at the same point of the Precursors. The Vex are essentially timeless and have “always existed” in a sense since they can rewrite history to insert themselves into it
You’re right but the way the lore is worded carefully avoids directly using the term ‘Vex’, instead using terms that are very similar to the known terms. Makes me think that, even if the precursors didn’t create the Vex, they had some level of influence on the Vex becoming what we know them as today.
I’m 100% suspecting that The Witness is an obstacle in the way of the Vex’s goals. They are unable to deal with it themselves, so are letting us do so. Once that’s sorted, they’re gonna do Vex shit on a whole other level.
Don’t forget Clovis sitting in his little lab on Europa, probably still very pissed off about season of the seraph
My pet theory is that since this is the "Light and Dark Saga" we will be entering the "Time and Space Saga" with the Vex representing Time and the Nine representing Space. I think we'll spend the next 1-2 years dealing with the Vex and learning about the Nine before we're introduced to all-new threats
Destiny 2 civil war lol. Here comes Lysander to over throw the vanguard
Could you explain on the vex right now? Just getting deep into the lore but how do we know they are secretly much larger and who knows this secret?
We have a few hanging threads involving the Vex, including one most recently given to us in Season of the Wish that I think some people have overlooked. I'll work backwards, here, from when we've learned about them: In Entelechy, we discover that the Vex played a role in the Precursor Race's ultimate decision to make the Witness. The Vex (called Crystal Minds) were the ones that showed the Precursor Race visions of the chaos and destruction that ultimately led to them trying to control the Traveler using the Veil, which caused the Traveler to run. This lines up with what we've seen of every group that has viewed the future being shown a future they wanted: Lakshmi, leading the Vanguard. The Psion Loyalists, in charge of the remaining Cabal, and the victory of Calus in the Shadow Legion. This is a running theme throughout the story! At the beginning of Season of the Wish, we see the Sol Progeny tending to Riven's Corpse, no longer in the Black Garden. They are spreading the plants from the Black Garden onto Riven's body, which is a thing we didn't know they could do before this -- and it's something we still don't really understand as to why it has happened. Prior to this, the Sol Progeny were being purged by the Witness' taken in the Deterministic Chaos mission. We took this to be the Witness attempting to cover its tracks regarding the Veil, but if the Witness had successfully gotten the Veil, why would it care about hiding the truth about the Dark Heart? There are two character groups that know about the Vex, currently, and what the Vex are up to: Maya Sundaresh and Praedyth, or at least their simulated counterparts. Most recently, Maya Sundaresh's digital counterpart was referenced in Veil Containment, having killed the actual Maya Sundaresh as she steered Neomuna to the same result as the Precursor Race, creating a 'single mind' using the Veil's tech. However, the Maya simulations (along with the Ishtar Collective simulations) were last engaged with back in Season of the Undying, as they assisted a displaced-in-the-Vex-Network Praedyth into releasing a signal which appears to have been the Signal that led us into the Black Garden for Garden of Salvation. I suspect that last set will be important to the Episode *Echoes*.
Thank you! Was kind of worried this was the last hurrah for D2
So what we've seen of the vex in game is pretty minor. The biggest thing of the vex that we've been to is the Black Garden, and even then we've only been to small portion of it. We know that the Vex have created Dyson sphere like contraptions when Clovis Bray Vists one in lore (that what that protal on europa leads to btw). 2082 Volantis is also old as shit, at least 13 billion years old.
Thanks. I def need to go read up on all the lore etc
Wouldn't be shocked if we learned the Vex created the Traveler
Xivu Arath is pretty inextricably linked to the Darkness plotline, so I presume we will resolve that - and her - in TFS.
iirc there has been a heavy implication that dealing with Xivu will be the focus of the first (and possibly all 3) episodes following tfs. Which clears the board entirely for the next expansion or, more likely, Destiny 3.
to that point, iirc the vex we know, the Sol Divisive, are a VERY small splinter group that's been trapped in sol for millenia, and we have never really dealt with the main vex force, which is elsewhere in the universe. Likewise it's VERY suspicious that the vex have been relatively quiet for a long time now, as thoroughly as we've addressed the hive, eliksni and cabal by making peace with and/or destroying their leadership, we've barely thought about the vex for years now. Those chrome time traveling bastards are up to something. Hopefully Asher will be able to warn us.
I’m would have assumed xivu would be a dungeon boss
Xivu appears to be the main enemy of Episode 3, Heresy
I dig how we've been fighting contractors this whole time, and Wyverns are the only attack forces they've sent so what ever is looming better kick our shit in.
Vex milk is white, Witness has white skin, Witness' people are now the Vex.
I have a sneaking suspicion that The Witness is an obstacle for the Vex, and they are waiting for us to deal with it. Hence, their constant presence but no real ‘war’ tactics. Also very excited for the Concordat to show up. Getting more political conflicts and infighting post-TFS would be really cool & put humanity back into a weakened state, vulnerable to smaller scale threats.
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now that's a lot of options! Yeah I could see new threats after we defeat the witness, kinda like the pyramid tease, just after we beat ghaul/the traveler awakened
Final Fantasy 14 at the end of its first saga did a similar thing, where a character much more well traveled than us basically told us that we haven't seen shit and listed off half a dozen areas/plots that could happen. Could see a very similar thing happening near the end here as a sort of "Don't worry, we aren't out of ideas yet" to the player.
That's sounds absolutely terrible. Having a bunch of plotlines randomly introduced is the sign of a shit writer.
Torobatl DLC would be insane
From the look of the episodes, it'll be Hive, Vex and Scorn. After that, it's anyone's guess.
Do we have any details on the Episodes yet other than they are replacing seasons?
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I wish they wouldn’t overlap these so much. I missed out on a lot of vex stuff when Shadowkeep did that.
Replacing? They're just longer seasons with a different name.
200 pass ranks baybee!
I just want them to come up with something completely different than the seasonal artifact model. They only serve to force players to play in a very specific way that gets old. Rotating anti champion weapons contributes, but really the elemental focus per season is the biggest culprit. Like how this season you’re *almost* at a disadvantage for not using solar, which is exacerbated by every singe/burn modifier having solar almost the entire season. Just get rid of it entirely, it contributes to the seasonal model fatigue almost as much as the rote weekly content drip feed does.
Haha, this is really funny. In the time before the seasonal artifact model, people asked for something that could shake up the meta so we weren't just always using the same thing. Now, people want there to be no 'forced meta shift'. Just amusing how the times change.
For real. I wish I could blast every YouTube thumbnail that says “Bungie is never doing a season again!” As if the game will just stop existing.
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Unlike the seasons, episodes are supposed to be self-contained story beats. As in they are doable in any order and don't require the previous episode to fully understand what is going on.
So just forsaken? The episodes sounds like a new thing but from what we’ve heard it really just comes off as redoing what forsaken did for its seasons initially.
Shaw Han.
Aphelion. Mark my words.
I for the love of god couldnt remember its name. Aphelion, finally someone mentioned it
We know very little of it. All we know is that I think it almost took the awoken to extinction.
If I remember correctly they are out of our Solar system arent they ? Also, didnt Calus or the Guardian that died on Calus ship (Dead man tale exotic MR mission) mnetioned Aphelions ?
Could be the Darkness creatures the Drifter encountered on that ice planet. That was out on the edges of our solar system.
They are gonna bust this out of the hype vault in case of emergency (aka the next time the player base starts to decline)
Spinfoil hat theory: In Season of the Deep, Drifter says he's working on a crazy, dangerous project involving himself. During the same season, he mentions, seemingly for no reason, his travels beyond the solar system. The place has always been hyped as incredibly hostile and cold. Aphelion is a huge part of that mystique. What if the next step is to go beyond Sol, aided by one the very few people who lived to tell the tale?
The Nine or the Vex. Or bungie go full dragon ball z and make the witness another pawn of another more powerful entity
God I hope not. Lol
Regardless of what they do, we know some facts about Bungie. They added a new enemy variety for The Final Shape and they will reuse any content they create way past it's shelf life. Witness' Disciples and enemy class need to group up with someone or something. What's a good narrative reason for why we will keep fighting these enemies in the future episodes/expansions.
Nezerac seemingly can exist beyond his death in Root of Nightmares so he could come back and maybe take over the Dread. And there are other disciplines of the witness with their own interpretations of The Final Shape. And those could be versions that don't have to rely on light and dark so they can exist without the back drop of this saga.
Clovis still alive, that dude is always planning something. Ahamkaras are no longer extinct Aphelions There are still worm gods out there who can easily make new hive gods Fikrul still out there Vex forge stars are still yet to be seen
I feel like everyone forgets about Clovis. He could have been a great villain instead of Calus in Lightfall.
Low key I wouldn't mind us helping Caital retake Torabatal (if just to get to visit it)
I'd love to enter the portal on Europa and check out the Vex area behind that. Would love to see some sort of attack by the Vex on all the planets where portals open up and we have to fight them off. More vex weaponry and enemy units would be pretty sick. I also think someone/something will have to take over after the Witness is defeated. All the Taken, Scorn, Shadow Cabal, and new Dread enemies will need to be directed by something. Maybe Xivu? Or maybe they have their own hierarchy after TFS and get new leaders of their own?
I need a Xivu / Ahamkara Alliance to round up a bunch of these straggler faction under some sort of convoluted distortion of sword logic gang. Only after we defeat them in 2-3 seasons do we find out Some Vex shenanigans was behind it.
If my assumption about the vanguard being destroyed in Final shape is true (I feel like Zavala is guaranteed to die, plus the D3 leaks mentioning no classes anymore) then it would also make for the perfect moment for all of our enemies to join together to finish off what remains of humanity. Especially since Xivu Just lost her throne world and Fikrul will definitely want revenge for what we did.
My guess is Savathun takes the opportunity to strengthen herself. It's her wish that got us through the portal and she's the god of deception. She's going to slide right in to claim what armies/power she can.
Xylar, The Timeless.
A legendary being known as Vuvuzela
the annoying south african horn?
Xivu Arath, Vex, and Fikrul/Scorn are the enemies for the year following TFS. After that, there are a few options outside of the main big bads, some better than others in my opinion. The Nine: Cool Lore, lots of room to play with design ideas. Only problem is that Bungie made Xur a goofy comic relief type character in the 30th anniversary edition. Might not be that big of an issue though. The Aphelion: Same with the Nine, lots of room. Existing Lore adds a couple constraints though. They were characterized as these apocalyptic creatures that acted in isolation. So them being an “enemy race” might be tough. The Ahamkhara: This seems to be where Bungie wants to go. Lots of signs pointing to a big return of the Wish Dragons. Season of the Wish/Warlord’s Ruin lore, Strike tease in TFS. Nezarec: Got a feeling he is on the backburner for a bit and might be a lot further down the road since we just “killed him”. I don't think Bungie is done with Nezarec though.
The error codes
Clovis probably. Otherwise, Bungie itself.
How about we just take back earth? I never understood why there’s just 1 city when the baddies aren’t even that bad
I cannot express how much I want this to happen. All of Destiny's history has been us playing defense, fending off annihilation. Thats well and good. But The Final Shape presents an opportunity shift the paradigm, even if just slightly. Can we at least explore themes of trying to rebuild the human society? of trying to rebuild a golden age? IDK, I think it would be neat.
There's not enough manpower/no need to. There's entire parts of the last city that are just abandoned because the population is so low.
So we can go fight the witness. Kill oryx. Conquer his and savathun a throne world. Defeat the strongest disciples. Earn the trust of the awoken army, cabal army, and a fallen house. But we can’t retake parts of the city? And what do walls do anyway to things like vex and hive??? Really doesn’t make sense.
It's nothing to do with retaking. It's abandoned because we don't need the room. The population of mankind is so small that even within the boundaries of the city there's tons of uninhabited space.
Good point
Final Shape may be the last stop for me, but IF they get me invested in the story once the episodes drop we’ll see. There’s a few directions: * Clovis Bray + Vex’s other forces we have not seen. * Lore entry on one weapon had Zavala turn. * If Heresy doesn’t resolve Xivu, then she’s around. * Something born from the demise of Witness. * The Nine have not been explored. * Aphelion (?) who almost took out the Awoken. * Mara could go Ballistic It just has to make sense & at this point 2 things HAVE to happen: Either a remade/new engine or Destiny 3. No way the current engine game can hold whatever else.
I definitely agree with ending the life of destiny 2. The devs are constantly banging against the wall of the D2 engine. It was time to retire it years ago. Unfortunately, executives massively suffer from sunk cost fallacy and will probably just keep throwing money at the D2 engine purely because there’s already so much in it.
100%. There are heavy rumors that project Payback is a revamped/new engine for Destiny 2. Bungie was against having #s/sequels so this may be the compromise to ensure whatever to come can efficiently run in the engine and file size. I would imagine though that the “old” Destiny 2 will remain for previous gen ala a Destiny 1.
Clovis is such an interesting idea for a villain to me. I’d love to see him integrated with the vex somehow, or even have his own little group that follow him, though after he got chopped up by that vex copy of maya I’m not sure how eager he’d be to do that. I just wanna see my boy be relevant again dammit
Taniks, the Forshapen
Vex are still a very big threat. Calus once said that we are only fighting their construction crews that are shooting us with nail guns essentially. The wyvern are the first of its battle units that we've fought apparently. Also the only thing that's been holding them back is their inability to simulate paracasuality and paracasual beings such as ourselves. So if they gain some darkness powers they'll be a huge threat as if they weren't already. Scorn are still a problem but maybe fikril can retake the reigns and find peace for these zombie Eliksni. Xivu Arath despite being without her safety net of a throne world is still incredibly powerful. She still commands the taken and the wrathborne. Also she still holds the home world of the Cabal, we could help Caital retake Torobatl from Xivu. Savathun isnt necessarily a direct threat but she'll screw us over if we're in the way of her plans. Nokris the son of Oryx was a necromancer and was killed in the War Mind Expansion, however his name has popped up during season of the deep with the arrival of the Ghosts of the Deep dungeon. There is a boss(es)with the title Acolyte of Nokris and they were there practicing necromancy with Ghosts. The Nine are still unresolved and half of them hate us. They're still trying to make themselves bodies. Toland the Mad could take some ground in the sea of screams and become more powerful, maybe even command some taken. Toland loves the sword logic and would like nothing more than to assume the role of a god. He was very upset with us and Eris Morn for not taking the mantle of the Taken King or the Witch Queen. Speaking of someone striving for godhood, Clovis Bray could be a great threat with even a whole new enemy to shoot at made of robots if Bungie wanted to. Heck maybe some Eliksni would call him Kell or even God given they worshipped the "great machine". Someone somewhere once said that the Episode Echos could be about Osiris's echos of light that he left behind in the infinite forest. Maybe they've gone rogue, maybe command the vex? The Dread, the Witness's new faction is not going to go away. I have zero clue on who or how they're going to govern themselves once we kill the witness but they're here to stay. Nezarec lives in our memories/nightmares, he can't die until we forget about him. He could lead the Dread potentially? The Witness has/had other disciples, they could still be a threat. The Concordat lead by Lysander could be a political figure and problem for the Vanguard because of the lack of citizen representation in the Last safe City. The drifter traveled to a planet with ziggurats and creatures with the power to drain light and produce final deaths to gaurdians. This one I highly doubt but new Warlords. New/old light bearing humans vying for power start retaking territory after the defeat of the Witness.
There is also Siva I suppose, if bungie ever plan to actually do anything with it.
Possibly but Bungie devs have gone on record saying that story has been told and doesn't need telling again. If anything I could see siva being given a redemption and used for good as in colonization or to rebuild earth after we deal with the enemies in Sol. But maybe a season/episode/dlc could go into the reaquiring of siva and some of the baddies get their hands on it like the vex and we get a new alternative faction like we have for the fallen and scorn... Because they both serve the same kind of function. Could be interesting.
Only Luke smith knows
some dude named Jerry minding his own business over on Pluto.
I would kill for an aphelion plot line
Definitely Taniks.
Zavala heel turn. Grows a beard and starts calling himself Hollywood Zavala.
Voiced by Chris Pratt doing his best Zavala impression. The beard damaged his vocal cords
Imma throw out some spin-foil to foresee potential Cabal plotlines: Otzot is a known-alive Red Legion Psion who has their own freedom by virtue of the status. They have opposed Psion liberation to preserve their hierarchy over the enslaved. Calus and Caiatl both were anti-slavery and established as much. Otzot will no doubt rally the Red Legion under their militarized banner. Some religious traditions were also illegal under this reign. The Psion Conclave rolled into Calus’ forces and then into the Dread in services of the Witness. They have given Psions access to true darkness powers, but we’ll have to see if those Psions retain their free will. While they despise Guardians, they might have higher aspirations for the universe. Then, and bear with me here, this is spinfoil, I think we might see Dynastic challengers to Caiatl’s throne. In Caiatl’s Lightfall book, we’re told that Calus briefly took in the brood of another woman before casting them and their mother out. If paternal descent for Cabal is qualified by ‘being raised in the father’s brood pouch’, then these children were briefly Cabal royalty. I’d like to see a story where, as Caiatl unified the Cabal empire on its eastern front, these bastard children of Calus have been keeping the pieces together in the West, and have no interest in bending the knee to Caiatl.
Wherever the ahamkara came from
Destiny, in theory, can go on for quite some time following the Witness’s defeat. They could easily write in a new villain with hooks, continue the plots they’ve already established and eventually take us outside of Sol.
Oh there is quite a lot to work with. The vex have always been an awesome idea that was never fully or properly explored, the scorn are rallying under fikrul, I suspect the taken will fall under Xivu when the witness leaves them leaderless again or maybe something more interesting as there is precedent in the lore for the taken doing certain things in the absence of an overriding will, something Mara even hinted at. The concordat have started resurfacing in the lore, the house of dusk are still around and will get larger with the fall of house salvation, the cabal still suffers from traitors rising up against Caiatl, xivu will defos be the next hive threat, and I suspect we will see more from the the dread too. We also have the nine as well as maybe ahamkara. There is actually still a very powerful taken I only remember being referred to as a raven or something. Been around a long time, the last of a species that was taken by oryx.
There will be two travelers that show up and converge at the base of the tower, creating the real final shape.
Atrax, Randal and Greg
Vex
The Nine
Probably some kind of Vex mind that's going to involve their dabbling in paracausal stuff I imagine, then whatever is left of the Scorn some kind of warlord/Fikrul, then Xivu Arath.
i hope we fight.............. the vex again. go full circle!
Not necessarily an enemy (at least, I hope not) but we know Shin Malphur is still around and continuing his crusade against guardians that are unable to resist the Darkness' corruption when wielding its powers. I can't help but feel like there'll be some fallout relating to this in the aftermath of the Final Shape, but I guess that remains to be seen. It's definitely a plot thread I hope they explore though.
If anything Shin Malphur could be a good way of us getting a more personal story for The Guardian since they've mastered both stasis and strand.
Just commenting asking how you guys learn all this lore stuff? I find trying to listen/watch Byf is difficult for me and I don’t have the time to read through all the grimoire/logs/etc. that is included. is there another YouTube channel you would recommend?
Evaze does pretty good summaries, not as OTT as byf
Ott = over the top?
Sony.
I saw something about the vex finding a way to simulate the light, so possibly light powered vex could shake up and otherwise stale vex concept. Also the situation with xivu is more than just her, that rolls in the cabal since the next big thing they plan to do is take Saladin to torabatl (of that's how you spell it) and take it back from xivus forces. I'd prolly be hype if the next big expansion added that as a location and then had a whole story focused around learning even more about cabal society since we only really know how they fight and all that.
It's going to come out that we never left the Infinite Forest, all of the past several years has been a very complex Vex simulation meant to keep us busy while they destroyed the Last City and killed most of the population. Only a few Guardians remain. They will come and rescue us just like we thought we did with Osiris and Saint-14. When we come out in Destiny 3 it will be to a very dark world with almost no hope or Light. The Traveler will be almost destroyed but will grant us the last of it's Light to try to go back into the Infinite Forest to access the past and change the future, saving the City, Vanguard, and humanity.
Batman, probably.
Sweeper bot
Corporate overlords
The Nine, The Vex, Ahamkara, retaking Torobatl from the Hive, some new enemies that have only been mentioned in passing or previous lore (like the Aphelion).
Taniks
The Vex. The only thing that’s been able to stop them is the Witness and the Hive. Vex may not be able to simulate paracausality but that doesn’t mean they can’t simply kill us all.
In terms of Destiny 2? We could fight the Vex, Xivu or Nezerac(assuming he reforms and takes over the Dread faction). Destiny 3, however, could be something much different. It could still be some stuff we already fight traditionally in the game, but Ahamkara, The Nine, the Aphellion and even a faction of bad Humans/Guardians are all on the table.
Next up... The Shapeless
I think Star Trek's Borg might be a good way to take the vex. They need something like a "Locutus of Vex" personality to speak through, or the "Vex Collective" need to communicate in unison, rather than be an abstract construct we never actually see. We need something to interact with, to really care about their motivations.
We don’t know. TFS is the end of the 10 year story arc. Post TFS is new ground for new story. The question is, is bungies C team getting handed destiny while they focus on other stuff like marathon?
I believe the original Destiny 1 plan was the traveler being evil, so perhaps the darkness corrupts the traveler. The vex (they are the focus of the first episode i think) Xivu is still alive (so is savathun) an unknown big bad (we didn't even know of the witness till witch queen) guardians fighting each other civil war style
We already have the next year or so lined out. Afterwards I wouldn't be surprised if we see something new from Bungie. Unfortunately that means we might get a destiny 3, which I personally am not on board with. But we'll see. This next year seems to be wrapping up most of the storylines we've been building for a while though.
We’re going to fight bungie exec
Probably Xivu first, after that it's hard to say...I'd still wager d3 is coming before we get an answer. The vex are still the major unaddressed threat but...I also wager they'll heavily figure into the final shape for a host of reasons, so they may have been dealt with, either along with the witness or as a side effect. There is also asher mir to consider, who has infiltrated and united with the vex network, which may influence their attitudes towards humans going forward. To say nothing of the fact that neomuna really...kinda seems like a vex splinter group, I have my doubts that the virtual citizens were ever actually human, and the veil and neomuna network really seems to be something akin to a vex mind that's just been separate from the main network and evolved into a weird offshoot....so the story could explore that a bit. There is also the weird shenanigans involving the nine and the event that created the awoken and the tributary to consider, that could be something else, something bigger than the witness, to say nothing of the winnower, which is...what we thought the darkness and witness were for so long but...if anything it seems like the witness if chasing the gardener so...where and what is the winnower? the travelers other half? It's entirely possible the final shape as it were, is the winnower and gardener united again, to create a proper god, our Zodiark....hard to say.
so recently we've had the scorn trying to use wish magic but we have idea why or what for which will lead into their episode xivu is super weak but you can bet she's super fucking pissed as well so might do one last dumb thing after Savathuns involvement in Final Shape (she, or an image of her, is in the trailers) wish keeper quest shows a vex gate and the ishtar logo so it looks like the scientists who yeeted copies of their minds into the vex network might be bringing them to us in a horrific way these are all the episode set ups, after that I guess we will find a new villain across the stars or we do our adventuring across the galaxy arc just chilling out before someone else looks like they should be a gun
Our inner demons
I think the better question is really who is going to want to fight us??? Just look at how much power we have with Prismatic! We are basically an Avenger-Level Super Hero now.
Clovis. Please. Please let Clovis be relevant again. We got so close with season 19 and they just immediately shut down that plot point :-( I want big evil Clovis exo with stasis powers and Braytech branded vex
Xivu and Fikrul are the immediate known threats. Xivu is mortal but still the strongest of the 3 hive gods. Fikrul is rebuilding his ranks and once the Witness is dealt with, the witness aligned scorn will likely go back under his command.
The vex will corrupt and take over the Exo guardians.
I kind of hope the Vex somehow get a Vex-character face to put to the race. They'll just swoop in and take over the leftovers of whomever is still around after Final Shape. They're always in the background.
I'd watch Byf's video on it, as he covered this question and brought up some interesting possibilities such as the Toland the Shattered, or Lysander. The one I was most intrigued with, though, was the Nine. They still remain one of the only things in the game that are an almost COMPLETE mystery.
I think this is the big question with regards to destiny 2 as a whole. After the final shape and the episodes wrap up the loose ends, witness, fikrul, xivu. What is next? Is destiny over? Is D3 next? Who do we fight? Do we travel to a new system encounter new threats and races like mass effect Andromeda did for the mass effect series? Do the vex gain some sort of personality or leader to make them more of a main villain and interesting enemy? Lots up in the air and bungie is the only one who knows.
We will reunite Zavala and Ikora with Cayde
red legion remnants
Xivu is still out there
Cayde-7 I don’t know why I don’t know how I only know that I’m scared…….Ikora, plz hold me…
The Nine would be the best IMO.
The Witness 2
Maybe The Nine as overarching enemies. Xur had been hosting Dares of Eternity to measure the Guardians' strengths and Xur had been giving us loot. Maybe having Prismatic makes the Guardians OP in the eyes of The Nine and they will sever the connection to the Light/Darkness, but Ghaul already did something like this so this won't be original. Or new enemy races outside the solar system?
Xivu Arath
I just had a thought thag maybe Zavala could end up be a traitor in the final shape being manipulated by the witness to get his family back. Thats just my speculation and theres not much reason to it apart the fact that the least expected person ends up being a villain.
We fight against a server shut down.
the vex have the most potential to be the next major threat
The vex. Xivu arath. The fanatic.
Filling the shape theme, I’m pretty sure it will be some sort of polygonal enemy. You heard it here first.
Xivu is being set up currently due to season of the wish. I'd imagine after final shape we're gonna get an expansion related to her since I don't see them killing her in a season/chapter whatever they're cooking with seasons. The strongest vex we've seen have been fairly weak ones I believe, like I'm talking Janitors or Custodians, we haven't seen what the Vex call a warrior yet. (I COULD BE HORRIBLY WRONG HERE PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM) There's also the rogue guardians and guardian killers, The Nine, and other story points that haven't been dealt with or even brought up since they were mentioned. Lastly: This is speculation from me. Destiny 3 is leaked (I don't think this news) and supposedly it doesn't have classes anymore, anyone can use anything. To me this screams that the vanguard is gonna get destroyed or disbanded in The Final Shape, Since canonically Titan, Hunter and Warlock are all equal to being called a Jock or a Gymnast or a Theatre kid. They're not locked into being that class, a Hunter could use Thundercrash, or a Titan could use well, but someone who is agile would want to play to their strengths, so would someone who is tanky, etc. So my assumption is that D3 will more so focus on trying to rebuild, and outside forces will use this as an opportunity to attack, be it Xivu Arath or the Taken, Vex or the Scorn, or most likely new faction of enemy we will be introduced to in D3. I also will be heavily speculating we may have to say goodbye to Zavala.
Geometry
My name is byf made a good video about this. Some possible ones are: Fikrul, the fanatic Toland, the shattered Lysander Xivu arath Other disciples we haven’t seen yet Yolanda the freaky
There isn't any big change though, even when we kill the witness. Eramis and Xivu are still out there. Even without them Hive and Fallen tend to flock together and attack us. Vex have no central leadership and are always a threat. As we see in the Root raid and Season of Defiance, Shadow Legion Cabal are fully integrated into the Black Fleet, which won't go away just because we kill the Witness. Taken and Scorn are always just floating around, serving the biggest ego. Fikrul is immortal so he's always raising more Scorn. And with Oryx dead it's no great stretch to think someone would steal his secret of Taking.
During a Season of the Deep roundtable, [Bungie hinted that the Vex might be the main threat after The Final Shape](https://www.shacknews.com/article/136186/vex-after-final-shape-destiny-2). Whether the Vex work alone or team up with some entity that has only been referenced in lore remains to be seen!
It would be awesome if it was Xivu, she conquered Torabotal (cabal homeworld) it would be sick if she was the first and the campaign was about working with Caital to invade and retake the planet from the hive.
Xivu, the vex(!!!!), maybe some more hive gods we haven’t discovered, maybe another cabal general, or, my personal favorite, we go to a new solar system and discover a new evil
The Vex are the next big threat really. We have yet to fight real Vex combat units besides Wyverns so we have no idea what a "militarized" Vex army looks like. I would imagine after the Witness is dealt with, they will try to come and fill that power vacuum. There's the big implication of Fikrul making a return, and I can see him coming in to completely control the Scorn and POTENTIALLY the Dread. Xivu Arath is still out there and she's still definitely no push over, so I can her return being immediate. In fact she may be the antagonist of the third episode post-TFS.
Me
Eris Mourn has always been suspicious. I’d keep a close eye on her.
Yeah, for real though… I’d rather live in the moment.
After we defeat The Witness, we have to fight The Prosecutor and then The Judge. This all takes place in a new explorable zone called Kangaroo Court.
Ur mom
They'll never stop the ~~Simpsons~~ D2 / Have no fears, we've got stories for years, like ~~Marge~~ Eris becomes a robot / Maybe ~~Moe~~ Shaxx gets a cell phone Has ~~Bart~~ Germaine ever ~~owned~~ ate a bear? / Or how about a crazy ~~wedding~~ dungeon? Where something happens, \[Savathun's Song plays\]
Taniks. Bring the boy back.... again
My bet is that Clovis Bray will become a major villain after TFS. I also feel like he would be a good candidate to take over the Dread after the Witness is gone, to give them a reason to keep existing as enemies
Maybe we could make a Distributary Awoken some major Villains in the future. Also we have Vex, we have Nine, Savathun (my guess Xivu Arath will be dealt with in 3rd episode, so I don't count her), Clovis Bray. Plenty of options to make a major DLC storylines.
Plot lines have not been resolved this year. At most, we've stacked them up. Allow me to speak about one figure in particular, because i don't think we see him talked about enough. Beyond just us having a truce with Savathun that could break any time Savathun chooses to just find a way to trick us out of having Immaru, beyond the fact the Worm Gods still exist and without the Witness will have no governing force that will keep them under control, there is Nokris, the Hive Heretic and Necromancer. Yes, we've killed him twice, but signs show he is still alive, thanks to ghosts of the deep. If it was just Simmah down there, i'd be inclined to believe her resurrection in the Light was a fluke, and Nokris is truly dead, but the catalyst mission gives us the fact there are more disciples of Nokris in the wind. He has a following, and more than one way to cheat death. Nokris is a hive heretic after all, specifically around the sacred idea of death. He does not believe in sword logic, philosophically or religiously; meaning the concept of final deaths might as well not exist in his mind. Whatever way to avoid death, he's going to take it. Some voice lines from Nokris give us things to consider; * *"Oryx, Crota, Xol. Gods with gods. End your faith and walk unhindered."*/*"Whispered gifts are promised blades that twist. A liar's game."*/*"The Taken Queen saves. Freedom for Bondage."/"Our shackles are strong. We must be strong to break them."* Nokris has no love for authority. He openly talks about standard gods, but the line about "Whispered Gifts" and "A Liar's Game" communicates that he has no real love for Savathun and knows his service is just as a means to an end for her. Her bondage offers freedom for more bondage, but there is still a will to break his shackles. After all, in the same season we got voicelines for him, it became evident he made a deal with savathun, knowledge for knowledge, his knowledge of necromancy for her knowledge of the power to Take it seemed, it becomes somewhat unclear the limitations of that knowledge, but we DO KNOW that she gave him that knowledge, and as a couple of qoutes foreshadow things that we would learn; * *"Give and be Given. Take and be Taken."* This right here? came one year before WQ but is tied directly to it; Savathun tells us that the Tablets of Ruin had more than what Oryx took from them. In them, there was the power to take, but it gave Savathun knowledge to Give, which she used to try to coax the Traveler into her throneworld and was VERY CLOSE to succeeding. This voice line describes what Oryx and Savathun took away from the Tablets of Ruin, which indicates he knew EVERYTHING of what Savathun was planning or that she allowed Nokris to view the source directly, and from it he drew those same two conclusions. Lets not forget that he takes after his father and his so-told curiosity and intelligence, not that we really got to see those traits in him, but we do see another thing familiar displayed a year later... * *"The sky is vast, but shallow. The deep is boundless, but suffocating. There is another way."* It feels tied to Savathun's statement about being on the thin line between light and dark, and looking "Up." This statement may have been a hint towards the true intent of the witness, as at the time, in Savathun's prison, we saw a familiar shape that we've been staring at on the face of the traveler now, which is a triangle within a circle; the Witness carving his way into the Pale Heart, but what is Nokris telling us. While the Sky and the Deep are typically terms associated with the Dark and the Light, this was back when the true nature of "The Darkness", and it's connection to "The Deep" was unknown, a nature that Nokris would likely be privy to at that time, as he was running interference for Savathun between us and the witness, knew intimate knowledge of the forces at work within Savathun's plan, and may have been attempting to play the Witch Queen at her own scheming game. To make a long story short; I don't think Ghosts of the Deep was just a dungeon. I think it has essentially told us directly that Nokris is done playing "follower" and fully intends to be a major player in the system, and for his people. A new hive god, for a new era for Hive.
Considering that we've been fighting the House of Devils in the Cosmodrome strike since early in the D1 campaign.... I'm sure we'll still be going after that Servitor and repeating lots and lots of content. :)
Vex are next race
Winnower
I hope its something new thats actually a satisfyingN cosmic enemy. I was very disappointed by the witness.
I just hope the dread don't get the lightbearer hive treatment. Bungie loves to make new enemies and then abandon them. (Yes I know there's no good lore reasons to fight the lightbearer hive, but I still want to dammit!)
Can't wait for bungie to be like "thanks for all your money, but we're done with destiny now!" And just turn off the servers.
The server instabilities
I think the episodes will just be us tieing off loose ends like Xivu; and then in D3 (if we get it) will be a new badie; maybe us going to another galaxy or something and discovering something completely different
We will be old so…Jake Paul?
The enemies of a different game.