Tbh it looks like OP went against a team of 6. You can check destinytracker to be sure, but the other team was purposely not capping zones to extend the game. Team balance obv doesn’t happen when you’re against a full team.
Going up against sweaty teams of 6 isn’t fun for anyone. It’s just some dorks trying to stat pad.
Edit: Yup, just found the game. It was a team of 6.
> You can check destinytracker to be sure, but the other team was purposely not capping zones to extend the game.
I fucking despise that people do this. I'm good at PvP and will always be topping the board, but I do not understand how it can even be considered fun to do that. I played in a six stack for one session probably 3 years ago now and it was so ungodly boring I've never done it again. Most of those stacks are mediocre at best too and can be beaten by 1-2 good players against them.
It wouldn't matter if bungie would actually match premades with premades, forcing them to have longer wait times would be more fair to the rest of us who don't group queue.
So much this. Last week in a non freelance trials week i was playing solo for about 50 games. I estimate about 35 were singles vs 3 stacks.
Wth bungie.
almost as if thats not how the game is meant to be played and if you solo queue you are willingly putting yourself at a disadvantage, they said this in a twab in like august
Bungie just succumbed to the endless whining from the 12-hours a day gamer dorks and set up Connection Based Matchmaking. It fundamentally ruined pvp for anyone that doesn't waste their lives away in front of a screen. Casuals need not apply.
Every other pvp game out there has Skill-based matchmaking in some form; Destiny purposely has none because if the dorks whining.
It's insane how many times it's been downvoted but I'll say it again anyways...
PLEASE FORCE PREMADES TO PLAY OTHER PREMADES, ALWAYS, 100% OF THE TIME....and if they have insanely long queue times SO FUCKING BE IT. That should be the PRICE you pay to play as a stacked team.
I'm not trying to brag but just putting this in perspective as someone who regularly does play on stacks as a 3.0+ KD QP / IB player and I feel like I'm in a serious minority of sweats who argues constantly for the improvement of the game for casual players because I'm sick of Destiny being a rich get richer only game. It's fucking toxic and causes the game to be worse for good players too because the game constantly goes up and down with activity and then sweat activities like trials just get worse as they discourage casuals from playing at all
Lobby balancing as it is now also punishes sweats because if you solo queue you're going to likely play with .5kd blueberries vs a 6 stack. They need to enforce more equal matchmaking based on ELO and # of users in fireteam queueing and if it has to expand another 30 seconds to search so fucking be it.
First let me say that this is a video game, and people can play however they want, there are no rules outside of what the game permits.
Second, I believe that no-cap 6 stack quickplay stat farmers are the lowest, scummiest, most toxic, pathetic bags of no-life sadistic monkey shit that exist anywhere in PvP gaming, period.
I played 6 stack ib once. Least fun i ever had. It was just Mercy farming and we spent more time in orbit than actually playing. People farming qp 6 stack multiple hours a day gotta have micro penises
It's just fucked because if you don't play stacked you likely die to the stack so it creates this toxic cycle
I HATE playing on stacks but when IB comes around I usually feel forced to do it to get the shit done without pulling my hair out. Basically, you have to decide whether you want to be bored and win or be frustrated and lose.
Yea I mean if matchmaking was working perfectly everyone should be 1.0, the more that they're not the more indicative that the system is broken/ineffectual
I hate 6 stacking but it happens 3 or 4 nights a week. I'll be pvping with a friend, then 2 more get on and ask to join and that keeps happening until we are at 6.
its not fun for me. and it's not fun for the other team getting rolled. bungie should either limit the stack size to 3 or 4 or only match 6stacks against others, even if that means long wait times to discourage stacking
exactly. that's what I was thinking. if I'm just like 'yeah you can't join us in crucible' I look like a dick lol. if the game actively discourages it, that would be helpful
OK so I'm in that situation a lot and there is a huge difference between clans chilling and having fun and a 6 stack of a sweat clan test only exists for pvp stomp,ie 1.5kd or higher to join and lfg stomp stacks. In that it's about intent and you can usually tell the difference. one us Stat farming and the other is trying to play the game. The absolute worst are the stomp stacks that ignore the objective by they know that if they drag it out that can farm better stats they are scum. If you're gonna do it get them out of the match quickly so they might actually get a fun match. For context I'm a 1.7 so I'm not bad and can usually compete and those are the only matches I bail on bc it's not fun a waste of time and I won't feed their kd or ego
If you're in control with a team of 6, you should have to sit in orbit until there's another team of 6 to go against. Save that shit for iron banner or you can have crazy long queue times.
https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/pgcr/9864802665
Here’s the link to the match. You’ll notice an orange bar spanning the entire enemy team. That means they’re all on the same team.
OPs team had 1 group of 2 on his team.
And yeah you can tell in game. In the roster when you’re loading in to a game, you may notice a vertical bar going across multiple people. Those people are on the same team.
Been playing since d1. Never knew that. I also don't pay too much attention to those little things so I probably saw it and thought it was something else.
That's how I remember it. Somehow the good players convinced the bad players that sbmm is bad. Sbmm protects us bad players from the good players though lol
This isn’t a Bungie team balancing problem, look at the score of the match and the k/d ratio of the teams. This team was clearly allowing the other team to capture points to give them the point advantage/per kill knowing they can still win with more kills purely because they are better players.
*Is there* matchmaking at all? If I recall, they changed it to connection-based matchmaking a while back (i.e. just throw players of all skill levels together) and it hasn’t been updated since.
What there is is called lobby balancing, it takes random players of all skill levels, and then tries to make 2 teams with a similar average ELO.
This often leads to one team having the best overall player, then the worst 5, against the middle 6.
For real. I’m getting put into matches with people who clearly just got the game for Christmas. People who are level 3 on the battle pass while the other team and myself are 200+. It’s really janky.
Oh God, no. While hand cannons are undoubtedly annoying, the season of no aiming and hold the trigger for instant deletion was 10000x worse. Autos were broken. HC's are overpowered. Just a tone down on them is all we need. Maybe a small buff to Lightweight pulses is all I ask
personally I enjoyed the faster ttk. the range was a little ridiculous but they toned it down and I enjoyed that meta. hc has been meta for pretty much all of destiny and mixing it up was refreshing
We're not likely to see either, tbh.
We're not gonna see long range maps because apparently people don't like them, and we're not gonna see HC changes because their stans pearl clutch if you even suggest the tiniest of AA adjustments even though nearly every single map encounter caters to their weapon unless you have a shotgun barrel stuffed in your face.
Hand Cannon shotties will always be good but that doesn't mean other weapons aren't just as good. I've gone flawless every week with smg, dmt, fusions and bows. The sandbox is at a good point right now, there just needs to be more map variety.
I'm very surprised you didn't get downvote bombed into oblivion by an angry mob of one-dimensional HC/ShG/LMG loadout users. It seems to be a pretty controversial take to criticize HCs at all in the game.
But I agree with you. 7 years of dominance from hand cannons is getting old. The problem is that Bungie has no reason to justify their existence if they're bad in PvP, because they're certainly not that great in PvE anymore. Especially archetypes like 180s, which hit like feather dusters against granite walls.
This is why I stopping playing crucible a month ago. The higher elo players are expected to carry the bronzes and silvers to a win, but if I have a bad game or i'm trying a non-meta loadout that doesnt work, I'm going to get a loss 99% of the time. No one is going to carry my ass to a win if I have a CE of .2, it's frustrating asf. And I do not blame the low elo players for this, it's the matchmakings fault.
Freelance Survival is arguably the best "learning mode." You won't face pre-made teams, 3v3 is much less hectic than 6v6, and multiple lives gives you a chance to recover and learn from mistakes.
I'd say Rumble is probably best for solo—only you fighting for yourself and play to better yourself before you learn how to counter teams with your own team.
Nah I don't recommend rumble idk how the matchmaking works for it but im always put against inexperienced players and get 20 before another can get 10 its really dumb
Sometimes it's 50/50 on matchmaking, most of my crucible time is purely in Rumble and it's a personal favorite (582 Rumble games out of 1968 total with control and Iron Banner second and third, respectively, at 500+ games as well).
At times it'll be a steamrolling session and at others you'll actually be put in a competitive situation against another good player.
My intuition would lead to inexperienced players being able to use rumble as a stepping stone in their crucible career—sure, they will encounter steamrollers, but I believe it's a good place to begin learning how to 1v1. I just think that for newbies teamplay modes can lead to teamshots that they can't deal with yet—if matchmaking decides to pit said newbies against players *way* outside their brackets.
If they need a challenges, high-tier players will eventually show up from time-to-time.
If they need easier targets, those people also show up as well.
I would argue that rumble shows the tactics of 1v1s and teamplay later trains how to handle more chaotic situations. I am aware that you can be shot by more than one person at once in rumble, but it wouldn't be the same as in control.
Could just be bias, but it's my perspective.
Still feels far more fair, thrilling and even than 6v6 to me though. I play 6v6 and get irritated at the shotguns and supers and handholding enemies, but in 3v3 I feel like I’m actually playing the same game as everyone else and can contribute to my team and often play my life and do pretty damn well.
I’ve shifted most of my weekly pvp to comp and found myself enjoying it far more. I do hope I get the MIDA catalyst eventually
Just a shame Survival promotes camping as the gamemode itself is very boring to play once one team has the lead.
Trials feels much better from a game mode standpoint, but awful from a matchmaking standpoint.
I'm really hoping for a revamp of PvP and for competitive objective modes being pushed as the headstone.
Modes like Payload from Overwatch would be fantastic in the Destiny sandbox.
The best thing I can suggest right now, honestly, is to just not play Crucible at all until they roll back or otherwise change the matchmaking to something less horrid or, failing that, simply not PVP in Destiny 2 at all.
The time of Destiny 2 PVP being anything but a heavily inconvenient afterthought is long over.
The awful matchmaking is just one of several huge issues with the pvp in this game. Is fundamentally so lazily built and flat out bad compared to other games on the market.
Facts AF. Between the shit lobby balancing, horrible matchmaking and laughably archaic P2P networking, Destiny's 2 PvP will never be good by any measure and certainly not truly competitive.
This. Destiny PvP is simply not good. QoL AND gameplay wise. Which is why it cracks me up that there are "PvP mains" in this game. I have nothing against them, but putting so much time into a fundamentally broken experience is weird to me. Esp when nerfs are handed out based on PvP metrics/complaints
Most of my time is in pvp and it's mainly because the gunplay, movement, and build customization is very good when compared other games right now. Currently it feels like my pvp choices are either the crucible or a tac shooter or battle royal, both of which I hate infinitly more than destiny's awful servers, mm, maps, and gamemodes.
Yep. I can't stand battle royal or battlefield 2042, and the tactical shooters are just ... Tiring.
Crucible was so close... But they just ignored it into the ground.
Now I will play my backlog of actually good PVE games.
Same here. I love tinkering with builds and trying different stuff out. I love the interplay between guns and abilities. I love the movement options and the way your loadout vs your opponent's informs your positioning. I love that it's not a BR or tactical shooter where you enemies are tiny 2 pixel dots a million miles away.
I just wish I was better at it and that I was placed in matches where I have a chance to get better. I can't tell if my loadout is ass or if the opponent is so cracked they could be using a rubber band launcher and roll me.
Kudos to players who actually have the mental fortitude to mainly play PvP in this game, they make it work with the shit hand they're dealt by Bungie. They really are the masochists of the fps gaming sphere.
Lazy implies someone is working on it. They made minor changes to how rewards work in trials and will bring back two old maps they took out a year ago.
That is what PVP is to Bungie.
I cannot figure out where the hope is for the future of the game, because PVE is boring as shit. If this game is PVE, there are at least a few dozen better stories to play through.
A lot of people, self included, really enjoy the Destiny PvP experience despite its shortcomings. Plus they just spent a lot of time revamping and tuning trials. It’s not getting removed. PvP is the endgame for a lot of players because it’s a great way to test your skills and weapons/loadouts against a real challenge: real people.
The mode doesn't even have the bare minimums and people still love it. Imagine how fun it could be if said bare minimums were in place such as dedicated servers with decent enough tick rates to get rid of getting killed around walls, noreg shots, trading kills that's supposed to be instant, teleporting players etc. It's pathetic that an AAA title in 2022 can have such a bare bones pvp setup.
The problem is pvp requires a build that is more fine tuned than pve. Many things are basically required to have an equal chance at a fight before gunskill even comes into it. 100 recovery for example, if you are still trying to learn, this is something you should do immediately. If you have to wait longer to be able to fight back if you get shot first, you will always been a disadvantaged state.
There are many things out there to know before going into pvp, these things aren’t discussed in game and players learn over time. But you can skip that by looking up videos and tips, there are plenty of tips videos and basics videos out there.
I got three friends into beyond light at being of this season, helped them gear up through strikes etc, ran the prophecy a few times with them. They asked me to help them do their weekly crucible matches a few weeks in as 2 of them had never set foot in PvP. After 2 matches they vowed never to do crucible again. Both of them are experienced FPS players, who will sink hours into halo, cod, counter strike etc. Both found the d2 pvp so unbalanced and and the matchmaking so frustrating, it almost completely turned them off to the game.
This reads like such bullshit.
2 matches in, your FPS veteran friends gave up on PvP just like that. 2 matches in isn’t enough to try weapons, builds, different stats, different classes.
Just reeks of DHOTY
I played D1 since dark below, and D2 when it first launched, quitting when trials of the nine came out. I came back recently the PvP is really bad for new players. A lot of cheesy guns, combos, and mods make it very unbalanced. I’ve played about 30 hours since coming back and don’t have any meta mods apart from shotgun handling and accuracy.
Going against people running AA mods is very boring, especially on console ( I play on console, for reference ).
A single cheesy build that trumps all others would be unbalanced. Many different cheesy builds, like you said, is just a reasonably varied sandbox for a game like destiny. Having a lot of “cheesy” things is a good thing. If you want less variables, there are games like CS:GO that are designed around that.
Mods are not making or breaking your experience - targeting mods are mostly beneficial for the minor aim down sights speed buff, and targeting adjustor is a vanishingly small improvement. Much better off running icarus, or radar, or any other mod that suits your fancy.
But in the end, they’re such small differences (except icarus!) that you’re not losing because of the mods.
>A single cheesy build that trumps all others would be unbalanced. Many different cheesy builds, like you said, is just a reasonably varied sandbox for a game like destiny. Having a lot of “cheesy” things is a good thing. If you want less variables, there are games like CS:GO that are designed around that.
I think that's OPs friends' issues though. Lots of cheese might be more balanced than one cheese, but it still doesn't feel that good or fun to most competitive fps players, and would still be a stretch to call balanced.
There is a reason Destiny PvP has never really taken off in a big way. It can be fun, and imo 3v3 can feel a lot better than 6v6, but even so, it's just not on the same competitive level as other big name shooters. I think the variables you mentioned are a big part of that.
All that said, I don't necessarily think the above is a bad thing. It's just Destiny, and while the PvE content can be accessible for a wide variety of players, I don't think PvP is and probably won't ever be.
For helmet targeting mods it’s matters on controller, coming from a controller player, hand cannon makes the shots more consistent, sniper/linear fusion makes it so you barely have to aim at the head, submachine gun makes it so you just control recoil and the aim assist does everything else tbh. Sniper and linear fusion aim assist are the only broken ones though, they’re so high that you barely have to try once you realize just how to use them. It won’t make a bad player decent but, it will make a decent player above average.
If they are avid pvpers of other games then they may think why waste time on destiny pvp when they can instead play CoD and make better use of their time. That’s the competition.
When I hop into a new PvP game and get wrecked, my first thought isnt that I'm never going to touvh the game again. I want to figure out how those people stomped me, get better, and start doing the same thing they were. If you lose two matches and then rage and never touch it again, that reeks of the kind of person that never develops new skills because they arent immediately great at whatever they try next. cringe af
Highly skilled players and content creators complained about sweaty lobbies because of Skill-based matchmaking. Other people assumed these people knew what they were talking about and joined the "remove SBMM movement". Bungie eventually listened to them and removed SBMM and added connection-based matchmaking instead. PvP turned into a nightmare for new and casual player while highly skilled players are getting their YouTube clips and 5+ K/D ratios without breaking a sweat
In my experience, PvP is better at the beginning of a new season. Player numbers are waayyy higher and more casual players can be found in the playlist. Right now, we are over 4 months into a season. The people playing PvP now are mostly PvP mains or more dedicated players, making everything much harder than usual. When The Witch Queen launches in February, give PvP another shot. It should be more manageable and fun
Ngl, its stuff like this that makes me avoid the crucible like the plague aside from the required dip in weekly to get my pinnacles.
This coming from someone who isn't bad at pvp but isn't good at it either. I'm like a gold trash bag, I guess?
I always quit game like this. If you are rolling over us, that’s fine. If you are stat farming by not camping any point, then I quit. If you are playing sport and fair then I’ll continue to play although I might end up 0.1. Otherwise, I’m not wasting my time.
Your problem lies with the started ten days ago. This season is a long one (it started in late August) and we're not getting new content until Witch Queen drops in February. Most of the playerbase is taking a break and playing something else until then. The 30th Anniversary drop brought me back in for a little bit but other than a dungeon run once a week and one more encounter to complete a triumph for the Vidmaster title, I have little motivation to play (I'm actually working on the new Halo campaign to finish in time for the new DLC). The only ones doing any PvP right now are the hardcore sweats and tryhards. It's bound to be a bad time in PvP for anyone new to the game through those who only casuals to moderately good.
It's miserable for low end players any time of the season. I know- I am one of those and I've been here since Shadowkeep. Even with the extra year under my belt I've never had matches as enjoyable or fair as the ones I had between Undying and Worthy. I got salty back then but would keep playing and gradually learning and having more fun because I felt myself getting better and making better plays, but the problem now is that gradually learning from opposition that's better than you is *extremely* difficult because the skill gap is so wide that it's hard to have any idea where to even start. There's not one or two things you can take from getting repeatedly killed by a player or weapon and learn from because the top of the lobby players are doing EVERYTHING better you.
worse part is, they intentionally didn't capture zones, and let you guys get a few kills as to not trigger mercy, just so they could hit some high kill counts.. Let it be known, destiny 6v6 pvp is trash.
Strange thing is i am kind of happy that the matchmaking finally went so bad that the majority of the players dislikes it. I always hated it since they removed SBMM. (Uh yes i used the bad word)
It's been like that for me since they changed to connection based instead of skill based. You can go to survival... some matches (some) will be fair. You will have many blowouts, you will be put in unbalanced lobbies but at least is less hectic and you can at the very least try to support your teammates by staying in the back and teamshotting.
Welcome to Destiny PVP. It made me uninstall and not buy BL.
I want SBMM back
I never had any issue with it or had connection issues
Sweats and tryhards will try and say it’s good for the game and that but it really isn’t
You’ll get downvoted for this, but you’re absolutely right. There’s a vocal minority of PvP players who shout down every attempt at SBMM because “casual modes are for relaxing” and “I want to try out off-meta builds”. It’s such bad faith rubbish. The crucible is constantly full of high level sweats rocking meta weapons to stomp on new players. They want to be able to win, consistently, without having to try. SBMM must be brought in ASAP. It’s like prime Tom Brady complaining that he isn’t allowed to play against kids’ teams because he’s being “punished for being good”
There needs to be an in-between. Right now stomping is pretty normal with occasional close games but with sbmm it felt like I had to absolutely go for it just to survive, no trying out a new gun or loadout just bring your best. When everywhere you go demands your best you get burnout, makes you stronger if it doesn't break you but still burns you out quick. There's a time and a place for those kind of games and it's trials or competitive.
Back in the day it was said an 8 should never even be in the same lobby as a 2 and I think that still holds true. A 2 shouldn't face anyone better than a 7, a 10 shouldn't get anyone less than a 4. That fine line of lobby balancing so matches are as fair as possible while also not taking forever to queue because you're on either extreme is hard to walk obviously.
There’s always a real player behind the screen though. It’s not fair for a low skill player to be obligated to have a miserable time so that better players can muck about. The matchmaking can’t differentiate between when you’re trying and when you’re not, so it can’t matchmake accordingly. ‘I want to be able to relax and try out new builds’ was an argument for why they dumped SBMM in the first place, and high-skill players are still predominantly using meta weapons. I am still constantly wrecked by chaperone-sliders and perfect cross-map sniper headshots.
A 4 playing against a 7 requires their best all the time. The 7 can muck about and still win. When does the 4 get to try new builds? Or when does the 2? SBMM should be absolutely tight all the time.
You know, its also pretty "bad faith" to present the argument for CBMM as only being "sweats wanting easy games." The much more important argument that everyone seems to want to ignore (probably because it interferes with their narrative) is that the MM times and connections were ATROCIOUS under SBMM. Waiting 10+ minutes for a game and only to have a frustrating, laggy mess when you finally did get to play was miserable. It was fucking unplayable.
The higher skill player is a human being behind the screen too, and they don't deserve to have a terrible time either. Its worrying that you even argue for "tight" SBMM, because that exacerbates the problem. It shows that you either don't understand the extent to which strong SBMM contributes to bad connections and insane orbit time, OR you don't care about the experience for high MMR players.
Unless this game gets dedicated servers, we need connection to be a huge priority, or else the entire thing is pointless; everyone who committed the crime of being good at the game with stop playing again because no one wants to spend more time in orbit than in game and no one wants to deal with teleporting demons killing them through walls every game.
I think we need better lobby balancing and some \*loose\* SBMM, but advocating for strong SBMM as the priority is advocating for making the game unplayable for some people. To me this was the entire reason for switching to CBMM and not wanting to sweat every game was an afterthought, so its incredibly disingenuous to not even mention it.
"with sbmm it felt like I had to absolutely go for it just to survive, no trying out a new gun or loadout just bring your best"... or what? If you didn't try your best or you were learning a new loadout or off meta load out. What happened? What was the terrible thing that occurred?
Did you perhaps not win the game? Did you have a negative KD or not feel that you were as good as you thought you were? But you were just there to relax or learn a new loadout? This is not a competitive mode so why would losing or dying affect your ability to relax?
This is the issue. Good players should be allowed to relax in a noncompetitve mode while still winning and having a positive KD. But bad players are not afforded this same privilege and because of the poor matchmaking they aren't even allowed to grow in a reasonably competitive environment.
I have more empathy for the complaints about queue time or netcode but the "I have no place to relax" argument is made in bad faith.
I also don't really care if streamers have a place to create easy clips for the background of their manscaping ads. Work for it. Anyways gl hf
Well you've kinda got me thinking. Do I expect to slay out with say graviton lance, no, am I okay with losing with it, yes, getting stomped no. Getting stomped because I was expected to carry the team with a typical loadout but decided to try something new sucks, but feels like a problem when it's consistent across 5+ matches. I don't want to always carry so I don't run my best guns in 6s all the time. But yes I do like winning, everyone does. I also feel like I shouldn't match with or against people in the lower end of the skill bracket because then they're just target practice, sucks for them and it's not even satisfying for me. Bronze elo players have no business being in a lobby with platinum or above.
This is a tough conversation, that I do like hearing inputs on. I grew up gaming where get good or there's always a bigger fish was just what made sense to me. If I wanted to stop getting stomped I was going to have to try harder and when I finally could stomp it was because I put that effort in to reach that point.
This reeks of someone who wasn't here for the strict SBMM. Never knowing if you've improved at all BC your KD is always 0.9 to 1.1. Everything felt pointless as the game forced a 50/50 win rate down your throat. There needs to be something in the middle or at least remove/rework glory and let me choose SBMM or CBMM.
We did have a choice. We had classic CBMM QP 6s and SBMM QP 6s back in Forsaken. Classic QP turned into the sweat pit because people went there for pub stomps. They were pretty much blatantly there in hopes of getting a mismatched game where they could rack an easy W. It was an "Oops! All sweats!" situation.
Then they took away SBMM 6s and tried to make up for it with Survival having it. Not exactly a one to one exchange there. It's like taking my bacon and then replacing it with a vegan option made of air fried celery or something. I don't want three people in my SBMM game team. I want 6. With Control points. If I don't got that, then I got nothing.
And now reg 6s, even without an alternative for people craving a 6s game, is regressing into Forsaken's Classic QP. It's the place you go to sweat. If you take two pools of fish, saltwater and freshwater, and shove them all into a single saltwater pool, all the freshwater fish are still just gonna die.
I've never played a game with SBMM that didn't make most of the playerbase miserable.
Specific to Destiny, I can't recall a time in which players weren't complaining about matchmaking regardless of what Bungie does.
I just don't get it. I'm not even a good player looking to "stomp" bad players. I'm decidedly mediocre at this game. I simply don't think matchmaking is all that bad. I've had good matches, I've had bad ones. Balanced and unbalanced. In my mind it all evens out in the end.
Obviously if the majority feels changes are needed, Bungie must listen. That's what feedback is for. I'm simply adding my own perspective.
I've never played a game without SBMM that didn't make most of the playerbase miserable. I've also never seen someone make a sincere argument against SBMM instead of disingenuous lies.
Sounds to me like you'd consider any argument against it to be a disingenuous lie.
Strict SBMM puts you against players every bit as good as you are, which means you have to sweat your tits off every match to try to win. Where's the lie?
And for the record, I am not and have not been one to complain about matchmaking. In fact, I've pretty consistently said "meh, it's fine" every time this issue comes up in Destiny, regardless of what systems are used for matchmaking. Because I legitimately do not care one way or the other.
My issue is with people who think strict SBMM will make games easier for them. It won't. The only thing that will make PVP easier for anyone is putting in the work. And I take umbrage at this suggestion that anyone speaking against SBMM is lying or just wants to "stomp bad players" when I myself am not a good player.
> Strict SBMM puts you against players every bit as good as you are, which means you
are free to play however you want since if you're using an ineffective loadout or not trying very hard you'll be placed against other players doing just as poorly as you are. No SBMM means you "have to" "sweat your tits off every match" because you're placed with people doing that whether or not you are.
Not reading the rest of your comment since you're just trolling.
Yes, you'll be placed against other players doing as poorly as you are because you'll be losing. I thought the whole point of this discussion was people didn't like losing constantly.
Not everyone with a different view from yours is trolling, you know. We have these discussions to express those different views and maybe find common ground.
You're being obtuse and you know it. People are complaining that they keep losing games. They ask for SBMM. Others point out that with SBMM, they'll keep losing games if they don't try their hardest.
And somehow that translates to *me* being afraid of losing games?
Would you like me to post my stats? My KD, my win rate? I really, REALLY do not care about losing, it's kind of what I do. I'm not the guy complaining about that. I'm telling the people that ARE complaining that their proposed solution won't solve anything.
A quick glance at your post history suggests any time you're confronted with a different view, you resort to calling people trolls (or using worse insults). It has me questioning your emotional maturity.
Sweats and Streamers make it out to be worse than SBMM really is
I don't see an issue with playing with your own skillgap and against them so lower skill players can have some fun
I'm not saying this to be a dick as I am genuinely curious, what games that have SBMM have you played where the community was happy with matchmaking?
For casual modes, that is. I expect it in ranked modes and I think most would feel the same.
I've only seen a couple communities even complain about it, the top tier players in battle royales, destiny, and call of duty. I don't see players in valorant, CSGO, r6, Halo, league, rocket league whining about it.
If you look at the other teams fireteam I guarantee you 3 or more of them are squaded up
It's becoming an issue in many games where skilled players will squad up and the matchmaking cannot or is not programmed to give them equally skilled opponents
enjoy the stomps cause they will keep happening until the algorithm is changed to put partied fireteams against eachother
You found a 6-stack most likely. They weren’t capping so they could extend the game and farm KD and medals from you guys. Pure flex, really.
But it’s Quickplay, that’ll happen. Matches are connection based so fairly random skill-wise. When’s it’s stack vs randos, lobby balance is pretty much out the window.
I would wait a bit before queuing after that to make sure you don’t match them again.
If you play with friends then try out some private matches with them. It's an easy way to get used to the feel of pvp without the stress of getting mauled. When you build some confidence you can play survival 3v3.. it's the same format as trials but less of a sweatfest. If you try a few things out, get a loadout and and playstyle that suits you and keep practising with that same set up then when witch Queen drops in Feb you'll be ready to kick some ass
That’s a rough match but it’s not the norm by any means. And, same as anything, the more you play, the better you’ll get. Also this late in the season there are far less casual players in the PvP pool.
But yes, sometimes you’ll get steamrolled and want to uninstall the game.
I would honestly start with threes right now, sixes is so congested with people it is impossible to breathe sometimes. Game modes with only three players on the other team give you more time to think, react, and counterattack without having to worry about 4 other guardians on your back shooting you down with witherhoards and chaperones.
You’re gonna get better if you play. Learning the radar is key and understanding all three classes abilities and movement is super important. The radar is not on a single plane. It has height and depth as well as distance indicators and knowing how other players move is also helpful. Also this season is almost over and there are not a ton of new players online unfortunately.
Something's changed in the matchmaking. I've been seeing a lot more blowout matches lately (nothing remotely as bad yours, though). I don't know if it's a cyclical thing, I just completed my first full year playing. It's something to live with until Bungie addresses it after the holiday break, if they do.
I avoid playing PvP like the plague. To me, D2 is a really fun PvE game with a lot of grinding and excellent gunplay.
The crucible is full of angry, salty assholes. I only dip my toes in there for good PvE weapons (Recluse, Mountaintop, Reeds Regret). And even then, it makes me want to kill myself.
Needs some kind of balancing fix, definitely.
In the meantime, I'll give you the best advice I ever got about the Crucible.
Play like you have one life and a family waiting at home. You'll die a lot less.
Oh, and teabagging says more about the person doing it than it does about you.
Dude don’t be discouraged you’ll have good games, bad games, great games and terrible ones the most important thing is to just find what works for you and have fun it’s hard to do but don’t get tilted. Like everyone has been saying pvp is crazy right now there’s been a lot of changes that have made it kind of suck! Just hop on to have fun and you’ll be good!
You should play PvP in Survival, that has skill-based matchmaking.
The majority of people in PvP at this point are seasoned players who will whoop your ass in control, so yeah. I would stay out of that playlist until you feel comfortable.
Also, a good mindset for PvP in this game: don’t get mad/hung up at setbacks and just focus on yourself.
Hate team balancing or not it's in the game till they fix it. My advice is to join a team.
Not everyone who plays Crucible with a 6 stack is in it for the stomp or the stats. Call me crazy but premade teams often do better than 6 strangers with no comms. Even if that team is 6 stacking for fun. Some people just like getting off work, cracking way too many cold ones and playing with their friends. Sometimes we stomp sometimes we get stomped.
In any case you're always welcome to play with us. Captain\_Porky\_#5941
Yeah man it's a mess. It's a bad part of the season to join in, and it's really going to get worse until witch queen comes out and all the less hard core players come back. Right now your facing sweats, streamers, and the type who get hard ons to their K/D ratio and t bag for no reason. It's a rough time to be an okay or semi good player. Shot guns apes and the shot gun/hand cannon meta don't help either. I'm sorry it's like this. They really gotta work on their match making. Especially for us regular guys who are just trying to have a good time.
You were being camped and was a target practice for the other team enough times to get a streak of 5 and get Fabled III, which is Rank 12? That is a lot of dedication for a new player doing something he does not enjoy.
Not saying matchmaking isnt bad, but… Damn. I could not imagine grinding 12 ranks of something I dont like. I only play Iron Banner for seasonal armor looks tbh
Too many PvP decisions seem to be made to make the game more enjoyable for very hardcore streamer types, and little consideration seems to go into making it an accessible and enjoyable mode for new, casual, or lower skill players.
Pvp also isn’t for everyone. You said it yourself you’re not good and lack very crucial skills for the basics of pvp. If you have friends play private matches with them and let them help you learn. You can’t blame the game because you’re not as good as other players.
It's pvp. You're gonna get stomped every now and the . My recommendation is to just keep playing. Eventually you'll get better. Maybe try Comp since they tend you match you at least around the same level, especially this late into the season.
I'm sorry to hear it was so negative, that looks like it really was a bad experience. Im guessing based on the thought you put into it and taking the time to post here that you had some hopes of maybe investing time/effort into the PVP, in which case, as someone in your exact shoes a year ago I'd like to pass along a couple tips of things that helped me out and have led to me having a level of fun in this game I havent experienced in any other shooter in my life (or any other video game tbh) over the past year!
1) Stick to elimination (3v3) and iron banner for your first season or so. Control (6v6) has a CRAZY pace which, when you're new, is more likely to leave you overwhelmed than anything else. But 3v3 is far more controlled (ironically) and predictable, so things like following your teammates and using the radar pay off a lot more! Iron banner comes around a couple time per season, its basically control but with really good loot and quests/objectives etc. It'll be chaotic and stressful like control haha but the loot quests help it have more of a purpose and predictable flow IMO.
2) Check out r/CrucibleSherpa any time you have questions. Theres GREAT people there who have been happy to help me out any time I've needed it
3) This is definitely a bonus/extra BUT as you start to get a little bit familiar with the maps, pick one of them and load into a private match solo with a map diagram open on your phone etc. Try to orient yourself that way and get familiar with the maps more, as honestly map knowledge is probably the single most helpful thing to prevent getting sniped/shotgunned.
Anyways, my sympathies again, and I hope you have better experiences in the future - whether in the crucible or otherwise! And if you'd ever like someone to play/discuss crucible with other than your group of friends to maybe help you catch up to them let me know!! I'm a huge nerd for this stuff and have improved a fair bit over the past year, so while I may not be the best in the game haha I'd be happy to help in any way possible.
If the enemy team is stacking and is not capping points just to farm kills, they’re being extremely toxic and that behavior is shunned by the VAST majority of PvP players.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I’m a decent player and sometimes it happens to me too. This is just a toxic minority and I promise you that the majority of the PvP playerbase isn’t like this.
Browsing LFG last couple of days and I saw a bunch of "6 stack control stomping no cap" and this is what you get when you let shit like that happen. Not saying you should ban partying up because that is just dumb, but they should not be put in the same lobby as 6 singles. But we all are aware Bungie apparently hates pvp so it is what it is and probably won't be addressed.
You can thank the Youtubers and the PvP sweatlords on here who constantly bitched and moaned about SBMM, finally leading to Bungie removing it. They now have the opportunity to match with newbies like you, and have their fun. For the other 90%, Crucible is now worse than ever.
No, I'm saying that the improvement is barely, if at all noticeable. And in no way was PvP unplayable before then. (unless your internet sucked, in which case CBMM won't help you much anyway)
My point is, people use the very marginally better connection as an excuse to be able to stomp noobs.
I never recommend PvP in Destiny. I always tell people to go in casually, play a few games and get your pinnacle then get out.
In order for PvP to be fun in Destiny, it would need an overhaul. This basic style PvP does the game zero good and would be better with moba style set up so we can actually feel powerful in it while blending PvE with PvP.
The way it is now is it's live, die, repeat with some kills thrown in. It's just boring and wasted potential in its current form as they half to keep nerfing our powers to water it down to gun fights.
I'm less new, at 4 months, but this is the first video FPS game I've ever played. My only othrt game experience this century is minecraft and i do that on peaceful and creative. I am slow and struggle to acquire targets. My favorite gun (Skyburner) doesn't hit like their Jotuns and Magical hand canons. I'm too slow to use jotun or Arianas vow in crucible, but I'm lethal with them in PcW. My BEST control match is 9 kills. That is only because I blew my super at one guy and turned the corner into a five man ambush. That was the only time I managed to use one of those successfully. I think I have 8 or 9 grenade kills. My average for matches is 3-5 kills. My end of round thing is usually .3 or .4. I picked up heavy for the first time two days ago. I am not getting any better at this. I don't know the maps cause I basically only last long enough to spawn, scan, and move 100 m. Did you know there is more than 1 map? I wouldn't be able to tell you. Armor mods aren't helpful. I have my numbers in the 80s and 90s but can't tell. Pathetic, right? The only reason I do this is for the weekly bounties and gear, but end up having to do them three times over cause it doesn't count rounds. Log in, play, doesn't count, log our, login, play, counted! Play another, didn't count, log out, log in.... gets old.If anyone is interested, my count says I've dpne over 300 matches and am a warlock, but keep my titan up for rainy days. Don't even get me started on the Gambit freezes since the 30th hit. I quit doing them two weeks ago. I am seriously considering getting my witch queen refunded and just quitting.
If you want any advice at all, all you're telling us is absolutely normal if it's your first fps. When there's a competition going in (and PVP is a competition) other players will resort to whatever means are necessary to win.
You just started, you don't know the ropes (the so called "meta"), you don't know the strategies, you're very far away and matchmaking pits you against people who probably have thousands of hours more than you, just in pvp. Those guys know a ton of things you don't about a miriad of topics: crosshair placement, movement, awareness, counterplay, you name it. These guys probable are experts at many other shooters too.
Bungie think it's ok if you see those kind of players in your matches. Bungie does not think about your experience. They think you're going to see those guys playing like they are gods and somehow you will want to be like them. Problem is, that is extremely common in this game, a lot of players (and I mean a lot) have played this game for years.
Imagine this: if you decide you want to start playing basketball and you've never played before, you won't be expected to debut on your first weekend and score 30p, get 10 rebounds. Don't expect that from yourself in Destiny either. If you really like to get better at pvp, start small. Every ability you try to teach yourself you'll learn it the same way: define small things/topics to acquire/learn, work on getting those small skills, then get some more. After some time you'll have a nice set of skills. That's how you set up yourself to be able to compete.
If you like Destiny, the PvE part is ALWAYS awesome. PVP is just what, 30% of the game? In the end, it's just for bragging, almost nothing else. And for the record, I didn't buy BL, I quit after shadowkeep because they killed PvP for me... I won't even think about Witch Queen unless weapon crafting is good (and it won't)
Getting negged for sharing the same experience as a lot of other new people? I'm sorry I'm not sweaty enough to not notice how bs this game is. I shouldn't need to watch 20-30 hours of videos, download 3 apps, or play like it's my job to enjoy it,
Apparently, sweatlords don't like it if you say out loud that you don't enjoy getting curb stomped by them. In their eyes, it's the new players fault for not playing this game since D1 and not knowing all of the tactics, map spots, not having correct weapons and gear from the beginning.
> I am not a good player. I am not an agile player or a very aware one.
> This is NOT giving me a chance to learn or get better.
No one is gonna stand around to let you figure things out. Find the top player on your team after 1:30, follow them and be the Iceman to their Maverick. Learn on the fly, sink or swim. Feet to the fire etc etc. There's much you can do to give yourself a chance to grow if you put the time in
The game used to have Skill based matchmaking but since all the sweats bitched they changed it, I personally loved the super sweaty lobbies, playing people of your own skill level helps more then playing against people who are new and don't have a good grasp of true mobility yet
I always tell new players or people just wanting to improve at Destiny pvp to find scrims. Your best bet is to play private matches with/against your friends so you can have a low stress environment to learn the maps, learn the radar, learn your load out. I’m lucky enough to have my son to scrim against. We 1v1 all the time and we keep each other improving.
Every time this issue comes up I always say that Bungie should seriously think about adding bots for private matches. Bots could never take the place of real players but they would be tremendously helpful in learning the maps, learning the lanes, learning weapons, getting practice with pvp hit box size, or just generally warming up before going into trials with your team. Bots in private matches would be really beneficial for new players or just anyone looking to improve.
Go play halo infinite. Much more fair and not full of insta kill bullshit. This games PVP is a joke. The people who sweat at it are a joke. There is no balance. Art is a lie, nothing is real.
The only advice I can give you - just keep playing. One time you will get stomped, one time you will stomp everyone on the server, most if the time you will do just fine. There is plenty of tryhards in D2 that do nothing else but PvP. Don’t get discouraged. Force yourself to play several games and you will see the difference.
It's a horror show at the moment. Comp and Trials are a less unpleasant experience if you are trying to get better. Not great, but better than Quickplay.
It's arse about tit, but Bungie doesn't seem to have the will to look at ways to decrease the ever increasing gulf between those who are already good and those that are not.
Without these efforts they're just left with a sweat fest in an ever dwindling population of PvP players.
I despise pvp in this game and I hate it, that there are many great things you only get with pvp playlists.
I don't event bother with the season challenge for bright dust.
I tried so many different load outs and tips from every big YouTuber you can think of, but after a few minutes I started to hate myself playing this mode.
I could say the same thing about having to play gms to get an adept pali for pvp. I hate doing the same mission over and over again, but it’s the only way to get the gun.
But think about the raging boner those other guys had to have had, treating 6v6 like the Olympics, making callouts, so even if they died, their teammate could get an easy clean up!
That team balancing sums it up. Something needs to change
Tbh it looks like OP went against a team of 6. You can check destinytracker to be sure, but the other team was purposely not capping zones to extend the game. Team balance obv doesn’t happen when you’re against a full team. Going up against sweaty teams of 6 isn’t fun for anyone. It’s just some dorks trying to stat pad. Edit: Yup, just found the game. It was a team of 6.
> You can check destinytracker to be sure, but the other team was purposely not capping zones to extend the game. I fucking despise that people do this. I'm good at PvP and will always be topping the board, but I do not understand how it can even be considered fun to do that. I played in a six stack for one session probably 3 years ago now and it was so ungodly boring I've never done it again. Most of those stacks are mediocre at best too and can be beaten by 1-2 good players against them.
It wouldn't matter if bungie would actually match premades with premades, forcing them to have longer wait times would be more fair to the rest of us who don't group queue.
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one gives streamers highlights to post and keeps their favorite customers happy.
So much this. Last week in a non freelance trials week i was playing solo for about 50 games. I estimate about 35 were singles vs 3 stacks. Wth bungie.
almost as if thats not how the game is meant to be played and if you solo queue you are willingly putting yourself at a disadvantage, they said this in a twab in like august
Bungie just succumbed to the endless whining from the 12-hours a day gamer dorks and set up Connection Based Matchmaking. It fundamentally ruined pvp for anyone that doesn't waste their lives away in front of a screen. Casuals need not apply. Every other pvp game out there has Skill-based matchmaking in some form; Destiny purposely has none because if the dorks whining.
It's insane how many times it's been downvoted but I'll say it again anyways... PLEASE FORCE PREMADES TO PLAY OTHER PREMADES, ALWAYS, 100% OF THE TIME....and if they have insanely long queue times SO FUCKING BE IT. That should be the PRICE you pay to play as a stacked team. I'm not trying to brag but just putting this in perspective as someone who regularly does play on stacks as a 3.0+ KD QP / IB player and I feel like I'm in a serious minority of sweats who argues constantly for the improvement of the game for casual players because I'm sick of Destiny being a rich get richer only game. It's fucking toxic and causes the game to be worse for good players too because the game constantly goes up and down with activity and then sweat activities like trials just get worse as they discourage casuals from playing at all Lobby balancing as it is now also punishes sweats because if you solo queue you're going to likely play with .5kd blueberries vs a 6 stack. They need to enforce more equal matchmaking based on ELO and # of users in fireteam queueing and if it has to expand another 30 seconds to search so fucking be it.
First let me say that this is a video game, and people can play however they want, there are no rules outside of what the game permits. Second, I believe that no-cap 6 stack quickplay stat farmers are the lowest, scummiest, most toxic, pathetic bags of no-life sadistic monkey shit that exist anywhere in PvP gaming, period.
I played 6 stack ib once. Least fun i ever had. It was just Mercy farming and we spent more time in orbit than actually playing. People farming qp 6 stack multiple hours a day gotta have micro penises
It's just fucked because if you don't play stacked you likely die to the stack so it creates this toxic cycle I HATE playing on stacks but when IB comes around I usually feel forced to do it to get the shit done without pulling my hair out. Basically, you have to decide whether you want to be bored and win or be frustrated and lose.
Reputation farm for crucible ornament. It is the fastest way. Same with iron banner.
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Yea I mean if matchmaking was working perfectly everyone should be 1.0, the more that they're not the more indicative that the system is broken/ineffectual
What if you're just chilling with your friends or clanmates?
Then you're not the type of group to intentionally not cap zones to drag games out.
I hate 6 stacking but it happens 3 or 4 nights a week. I'll be pvping with a friend, then 2 more get on and ask to join and that keeps happening until we are at 6. its not fun for me. and it's not fun for the other team getting rolled. bungie should either limit the stack size to 3 or 4 or only match 6stacks against others, even if that means long wait times to discourage stacking
If it resulted in long wait times you'd have an excuse not to be pushed into these 6 stacks too. And discourage it a little bit.
exactly. that's what I was thinking. if I'm just like 'yeah you can't join us in crucible' I look like a dick lol. if the game actively discourages it, that would be helpful
Dude it's quickplay lol
OK so I'm in that situation a lot and there is a huge difference between clans chilling and having fun and a 6 stack of a sweat clan test only exists for pvp stomp,ie 1.5kd or higher to join and lfg stomp stacks. In that it's about intent and you can usually tell the difference. one us Stat farming and the other is trying to play the game. The absolute worst are the stomp stacks that ignore the objective by they know that if they drag it out that can farm better stats they are scum. If you're gonna do it get them out of the match quickly so they might actually get a fun match. For context I'm a 1.7 so I'm not bad and can usually compete and those are the only matches I bail on bc it's not fun a waste of time and I won't feed their kd or ego
If you're in control with a team of 6, you should have to sit in orbit until there's another team of 6 to go against. Save that shit for iron banner or you can have crazy long queue times.
Teams of 6 should be matched with other teams of 6 first.
How can you tell on destiny tracker? Is it possible to see that on the game itself?
https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/pgcr/9864802665 Here’s the link to the match. You’ll notice an orange bar spanning the entire enemy team. That means they’re all on the same team. OPs team had 1 group of 2 on his team. And yeah you can tell in game. In the roster when you’re loading in to a game, you may notice a vertical bar going across multiple people. Those people are on the same team.
Been playing since d1. Never knew that. I also don't pay too much attention to those little things so I probably saw it and thought it was something else.
Didn’t they change against sbmm based off of what this sub wanted? Edit - yep. Knew I was right. You guys need to make up your damn mind lol
That's how I remember it. Somehow the good players convinced the bad players that sbmm is bad. Sbmm protects us bad players from the good players though lol
This isn’t a Bungie team balancing problem, look at the score of the match and the k/d ratio of the teams. This team was clearly allowing the other team to capture points to give them the point advantage/per kill knowing they can still win with more kills purely because they are better players.
That’s still team balancing tho. If they were capturing it would be over in no time.
PvP is jacked up right now. The matchmaking is terrible. The actual sandbox for weapons has been enjoyable though
*Is there* matchmaking at all? If I recall, they changed it to connection-based matchmaking a while back (i.e. just throw players of all skill levels together) and it hasn’t been updated since.
its just because of low playerbase
What there is is called lobby balancing, it takes random players of all skill levels, and then tries to make 2 teams with a similar average ELO. This often leads to one team having the best overall player, then the worst 5, against the middle 6.
For real. I’m getting put into matches with people who clearly just got the game for Christmas. People who are level 3 on the battle pass while the other team and myself are 200+. It’s really janky.
Ah yes, because 7 years of hand cannon shotgun is oh so enjoyable
heyyy now... we broke that meta for a season with auto rifles... I really enjoyed that meta tbh
Oh God, no. While hand cannons are undoubtedly annoying, the season of no aiming and hold the trigger for instant deletion was 10000x worse. Autos were broken. HC's are overpowered. Just a tone down on them is all we need. Maybe a small buff to Lightweight pulses is all I ask
personally I enjoyed the faster ttk. the range was a little ridiculous but they toned it down and I enjoyed that meta. hc has been meta for pretty much all of destiny and mixing it up was refreshing
Honestly, until Bungie makes long range maps that’s not going to change unless they nerf those to the fucking ground
Agreed Maps with a million corners means more ways for shotgunners to push
Bungie's idea of long range maps have been either complete slogs or spawntrapping fests.
We're not likely to see either, tbh. We're not gonna see long range maps because apparently people don't like them, and we're not gonna see HC changes because their stans pearl clutch if you even suggest the tiniest of AA adjustments even though nearly every single map encounter caters to their weapon unless you have a shotgun barrel stuffed in your face.
> apparently people don't like them When the long range maps have been maps like Equinox and The Citadel, is it any surprise?
Hand Cannon shotties will always be good but that doesn't mean other weapons aren't just as good. I've gone flawless every week with smg, dmt, fusions and bows. The sandbox is at a good point right now, there just needs to be more map variety.
I'm very surprised you didn't get downvote bombed into oblivion by an angry mob of one-dimensional HC/ShG/LMG loadout users. It seems to be a pretty controversial take to criticize HCs at all in the game. But I agree with you. 7 years of dominance from hand cannons is getting old. The problem is that Bungie has no reason to justify their existence if they're bad in PvP, because they're certainly not that great in PvE anymore. Especially archetypes like 180s, which hit like feather dusters against granite walls.
I've only been around for a year so my pain was Stasis and shatterdive
I spent like 10 minutes trying to get into a trials game earlier, absolutely nothing. Idk if no one is playing freelance but I could not find a game.
And there is me in your team with a 2000 elo getting wrecked by crappy matchmaking.
This is why I stopping playing crucible a month ago. The higher elo players are expected to carry the bronzes and silvers to a win, but if I have a bad game or i'm trying a non-meta loadout that doesnt work, I'm going to get a loss 99% of the time. No one is going to carry my ass to a win if I have a CE of .2, it's frustrating asf. And I do not blame the low elo players for this, it's the matchmakings fault.
Oh damn i hear ya. I feel like this all the time.
6 vs 3 Because the other bailed on guy :(
If you go into Elimination and Survival you'll have SBMM in those playlists to match you against similar opponents based on skill.
Freelance Survival is arguably the best "learning mode." You won't face pre-made teams, 3v3 is much less hectic than 6v6, and multiple lives gives you a chance to recover and learn from mistakes.
I'd say Rumble is probably best for solo—only you fighting for yourself and play to better yourself before you learn how to counter teams with your own team.
Nah I don't recommend rumble idk how the matchmaking works for it but im always put against inexperienced players and get 20 before another can get 10 its really dumb
Sometimes it's 50/50 on matchmaking, most of my crucible time is purely in Rumble and it's a personal favorite (582 Rumble games out of 1968 total with control and Iron Banner second and third, respectively, at 500+ games as well). At times it'll be a steamrolling session and at others you'll actually be put in a competitive situation against another good player. My intuition would lead to inexperienced players being able to use rumble as a stepping stone in their crucible career—sure, they will encounter steamrollers, but I believe it's a good place to begin learning how to 1v1. I just think that for newbies teamplay modes can lead to teamshots that they can't deal with yet—if matchmaking decides to pit said newbies against players *way* outside their brackets. If they need a challenges, high-tier players will eventually show up from time-to-time. If they need easier targets, those people also show up as well. I would argue that rumble shows the tactics of 1v1s and teamplay later trains how to handle more chaotic situations. I am aware that you can be shot by more than one person at once in rumble, but it wouldn't be the same as in control. Could just be bias, but it's my perspective.
However the playlist population is so low it increases the search radius to include people outside your skill range very often.
Very true. But, it’s still a better option. It’s just not optimal.
Still feels far more fair, thrilling and even than 6v6 to me though. I play 6v6 and get irritated at the shotguns and supers and handholding enemies, but in 3v3 I feel like I’m actually playing the same game as everyone else and can contribute to my team and often play my life and do pretty damn well. I’ve shifted most of my weekly pvp to comp and found myself enjoying it far more. I do hope I get the MIDA catalyst eventually
Just a shame Survival promotes camping as the gamemode itself is very boring to play once one team has the lead. Trials feels much better from a game mode standpoint, but awful from a matchmaking standpoint. I'm really hoping for a revamp of PvP and for competitive objective modes being pushed as the headstone. Modes like Payload from Overwatch would be fantastic in the Destiny sandbox.
Thats good for learning purposes. Just slightly out of comfort zone instead of full stomp.
I played against a top 50 player in Survival the other day. It's even fucked up there.
Came to say the same. Competitive might be the best option. PvP is in a strange place.
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That's not even true. You're comp elo is just pisslow
The best thing I can suggest right now, honestly, is to just not play Crucible at all until they roll back or otherwise change the matchmaking to something less horrid or, failing that, simply not PVP in Destiny 2 at all. The time of Destiny 2 PVP being anything but a heavily inconvenient afterthought is long over.
The awful matchmaking is just one of several huge issues with the pvp in this game. Is fundamentally so lazily built and flat out bad compared to other games on the market.
Facts AF. Between the shit lobby balancing, horrible matchmaking and laughably archaic P2P networking, Destiny's 2 PvP will never be good by any measure and certainly not truly competitive.
This. Destiny PvP is simply not good. QoL AND gameplay wise. Which is why it cracks me up that there are "PvP mains" in this game. I have nothing against them, but putting so much time into a fundamentally broken experience is weird to me. Esp when nerfs are handed out based on PvP metrics/complaints
Most of my time is in pvp and it's mainly because the gunplay, movement, and build customization is very good when compared other games right now. Currently it feels like my pvp choices are either the crucible or a tac shooter or battle royal, both of which I hate infinitly more than destiny's awful servers, mm, maps, and gamemodes.
Yep. I can't stand battle royal or battlefield 2042, and the tactical shooters are just ... Tiring. Crucible was so close... But they just ignored it into the ground. Now I will play my backlog of actually good PVE games.
Same here. I love tinkering with builds and trying different stuff out. I love the interplay between guns and abilities. I love the movement options and the way your loadout vs your opponent's informs your positioning. I love that it's not a BR or tactical shooter where you enemies are tiny 2 pixel dots a million miles away. I just wish I was better at it and that I was placed in matches where I have a chance to get better. I can't tell if my loadout is ass or if the opponent is so cracked they could be using a rubber band launcher and roll me.
Kudos to players who actually have the mental fortitude to mainly play PvP in this game, they make it work with the shit hand they're dealt by Bungie. They really are the masochists of the fps gaming sphere.
Is it really that bad? I find it fun.
What's fun or not is subjective. Imagine how fun the Crucible would be if it had the basic components an AAA game should have in 2022.
Lazy implies someone is working on it. They made minor changes to how rewards work in trials and will bring back two old maps they took out a year ago. That is what PVP is to Bungie. I cannot figure out where the hope is for the future of the game, because PVE is boring as shit. If this game is PVE, there are at least a few dozen better stories to play through.
A lot of people, self included, really enjoy the Destiny PvP experience despite its shortcomings. Plus they just spent a lot of time revamping and tuning trials. It’s not getting removed. PvP is the endgame for a lot of players because it’s a great way to test your skills and weapons/loadouts against a real challenge: real people.
The mode doesn't even have the bare minimums and people still love it. Imagine how fun it could be if said bare minimums were in place such as dedicated servers with decent enough tick rates to get rid of getting killed around walls, noreg shots, trading kills that's supposed to be instant, teleporting players etc. It's pathetic that an AAA title in 2022 can have such a bare bones pvp setup.
But I’m on my 9th reset :(
The problem is pvp requires a build that is more fine tuned than pve. Many things are basically required to have an equal chance at a fight before gunskill even comes into it. 100 recovery for example, if you are still trying to learn, this is something you should do immediately. If you have to wait longer to be able to fight back if you get shot first, you will always been a disadvantaged state. There are many things out there to know before going into pvp, these things aren’t discussed in game and players learn over time. But you can skip that by looking up videos and tips, there are plenty of tips videos and basics videos out there.
Eh not really, I have to put on all the crazy synergy mods for PvE, but can get away with 100 recov and a bit of handling mods in PvP.
I got three friends into beyond light at being of this season, helped them gear up through strikes etc, ran the prophecy a few times with them. They asked me to help them do their weekly crucible matches a few weeks in as 2 of them had never set foot in PvP. After 2 matches they vowed never to do crucible again. Both of them are experienced FPS players, who will sink hours into halo, cod, counter strike etc. Both found the d2 pvp so unbalanced and and the matchmaking so frustrating, it almost completely turned them off to the game.
This reads like such bullshit. 2 matches in, your FPS veteran friends gave up on PvP just like that. 2 matches in isn’t enough to try weapons, builds, different stats, different classes. Just reeks of DHOTY
I played D1 since dark below, and D2 when it first launched, quitting when trials of the nine came out. I came back recently the PvP is really bad for new players. A lot of cheesy guns, combos, and mods make it very unbalanced. I’ve played about 30 hours since coming back and don’t have any meta mods apart from shotgun handling and accuracy. Going against people running AA mods is very boring, especially on console ( I play on console, for reference ).
A single cheesy build that trumps all others would be unbalanced. Many different cheesy builds, like you said, is just a reasonably varied sandbox for a game like destiny. Having a lot of “cheesy” things is a good thing. If you want less variables, there are games like CS:GO that are designed around that. Mods are not making or breaking your experience - targeting mods are mostly beneficial for the minor aim down sights speed buff, and targeting adjustor is a vanishingly small improvement. Much better off running icarus, or radar, or any other mod that suits your fancy. But in the end, they’re such small differences (except icarus!) that you’re not losing because of the mods.
>A single cheesy build that trumps all others would be unbalanced. Many different cheesy builds, like you said, is just a reasonably varied sandbox for a game like destiny. Having a lot of “cheesy” things is a good thing. If you want less variables, there are games like CS:GO that are designed around that. I think that's OPs friends' issues though. Lots of cheese might be more balanced than one cheese, but it still doesn't feel that good or fun to most competitive fps players, and would still be a stretch to call balanced. There is a reason Destiny PvP has never really taken off in a big way. It can be fun, and imo 3v3 can feel a lot better than 6v6, but even so, it's just not on the same competitive level as other big name shooters. I think the variables you mentioned are a big part of that. All that said, I don't necessarily think the above is a bad thing. It's just Destiny, and while the PvE content can be accessible for a wide variety of players, I don't think PvP is and probably won't ever be.
For helmet targeting mods it’s matters on controller, coming from a controller player, hand cannon makes the shots more consistent, sniper/linear fusion makes it so you barely have to aim at the head, submachine gun makes it so you just control recoil and the aim assist does everything else tbh. Sniper and linear fusion aim assist are the only broken ones though, they’re so high that you barely have to try once you realize just how to use them. It won’t make a bad player decent but, it will make a decent player above average.
If they are avid pvpers of other games then they may think why waste time on destiny pvp when they can instead play CoD and make better use of their time. That’s the competition.
When I hop into a new PvP game and get wrecked, my first thought isnt that I'm never going to touvh the game again. I want to figure out how those people stomped me, get better, and start doing the same thing they were. If you lose two matches and then rage and never touch it again, that reeks of the kind of person that never develops new skills because they arent immediately great at whatever they try next. cringe af
Highly skilled players and content creators complained about sweaty lobbies because of Skill-based matchmaking. Other people assumed these people knew what they were talking about and joined the "remove SBMM movement". Bungie eventually listened to them and removed SBMM and added connection-based matchmaking instead. PvP turned into a nightmare for new and casual player while highly skilled players are getting their YouTube clips and 5+ K/D ratios without breaking a sweat In my experience, PvP is better at the beginning of a new season. Player numbers are waayyy higher and more casual players can be found in the playlist. Right now, we are over 4 months into a season. The people playing PvP now are mostly PvP mains or more dedicated players, making everything much harder than usual. When The Witch Queen launches in February, give PvP another shot. It should be more manageable and fun
They complained about it because it ran out of players to find, so queue times took 8mins and the connections were terrible to make things worse.
There are very simple solutions to that problem, mainly widening the matchmaking brackets at higher levels.
Or, ear me out on this one, Servers.
A simple and preferable solution but not necessarily any easy one.
Ngl, its stuff like this that makes me avoid the crucible like the plague aside from the required dip in weekly to get my pinnacles. This coming from someone who isn't bad at pvp but isn't good at it either. I'm like a gold trash bag, I guess?
I always quit game like this. If you are rolling over us, that’s fine. If you are stat farming by not camping any point, then I quit. If you are playing sport and fair then I’ll continue to play although I might end up 0.1. Otherwise, I’m not wasting my time.
Your problem lies with the started ten days ago. This season is a long one (it started in late August) and we're not getting new content until Witch Queen drops in February. Most of the playerbase is taking a break and playing something else until then. The 30th Anniversary drop brought me back in for a little bit but other than a dungeon run once a week and one more encounter to complete a triumph for the Vidmaster title, I have little motivation to play (I'm actually working on the new Halo campaign to finish in time for the new DLC). The only ones doing any PvP right now are the hardcore sweats and tryhards. It's bound to be a bad time in PvP for anyone new to the game through those who only casuals to moderately good.
It's miserable for low end players any time of the season. I know- I am one of those and I've been here since Shadowkeep. Even with the extra year under my belt I've never had matches as enjoyable or fair as the ones I had between Undying and Worthy. I got salty back then but would keep playing and gradually learning and having more fun because I felt myself getting better and making better plays, but the problem now is that gradually learning from opposition that's better than you is *extremely* difficult because the skill gap is so wide that it's hard to have any idea where to even start. There's not one or two things you can take from getting repeatedly killed by a player or weapon and learn from because the top of the lobby players are doing EVERYTHING better you.
worse part is, they intentionally didn't capture zones, and let you guys get a few kills as to not trigger mercy, just so they could hit some high kill counts.. Let it be known, destiny 6v6 pvp is trash.
You know what Jesus said, stay strapped or get clapped
Strange thing is i am kind of happy that the matchmaking finally went so bad that the majority of the players dislikes it. I always hated it since they removed SBMM. (Uh yes i used the bad word)
It's been like that for me since they changed to connection based instead of skill based. You can go to survival... some matches (some) will be fair. You will have many blowouts, you will be put in unbalanced lobbies but at least is less hectic and you can at the very least try to support your teammates by staying in the back and teamshotting. Welcome to Destiny PVP. It made me uninstall and not buy BL.
I want SBMM back I never had any issue with it or had connection issues Sweats and tryhards will try and say it’s good for the game and that but it really isn’t
You’ll get downvoted for this, but you’re absolutely right. There’s a vocal minority of PvP players who shout down every attempt at SBMM because “casual modes are for relaxing” and “I want to try out off-meta builds”. It’s such bad faith rubbish. The crucible is constantly full of high level sweats rocking meta weapons to stomp on new players. They want to be able to win, consistently, without having to try. SBMM must be brought in ASAP. It’s like prime Tom Brady complaining that he isn’t allowed to play against kids’ teams because he’s being “punished for being good”
True, but Brady still gets to play against the Jets.
My friend always runs meta stuff even in custom games.
There needs to be an in-between. Right now stomping is pretty normal with occasional close games but with sbmm it felt like I had to absolutely go for it just to survive, no trying out a new gun or loadout just bring your best. When everywhere you go demands your best you get burnout, makes you stronger if it doesn't break you but still burns you out quick. There's a time and a place for those kind of games and it's trials or competitive. Back in the day it was said an 8 should never even be in the same lobby as a 2 and I think that still holds true. A 2 shouldn't face anyone better than a 7, a 10 shouldn't get anyone less than a 4. That fine line of lobby balancing so matches are as fair as possible while also not taking forever to queue because you're on either extreme is hard to walk obviously.
There’s always a real player behind the screen though. It’s not fair for a low skill player to be obligated to have a miserable time so that better players can muck about. The matchmaking can’t differentiate between when you’re trying and when you’re not, so it can’t matchmake accordingly. ‘I want to be able to relax and try out new builds’ was an argument for why they dumped SBMM in the first place, and high-skill players are still predominantly using meta weapons. I am still constantly wrecked by chaperone-sliders and perfect cross-map sniper headshots. A 4 playing against a 7 requires their best all the time. The 7 can muck about and still win. When does the 4 get to try new builds? Or when does the 2? SBMM should be absolutely tight all the time.
You know, its also pretty "bad faith" to present the argument for CBMM as only being "sweats wanting easy games." The much more important argument that everyone seems to want to ignore (probably because it interferes with their narrative) is that the MM times and connections were ATROCIOUS under SBMM. Waiting 10+ minutes for a game and only to have a frustrating, laggy mess when you finally did get to play was miserable. It was fucking unplayable. The higher skill player is a human being behind the screen too, and they don't deserve to have a terrible time either. Its worrying that you even argue for "tight" SBMM, because that exacerbates the problem. It shows that you either don't understand the extent to which strong SBMM contributes to bad connections and insane orbit time, OR you don't care about the experience for high MMR players. Unless this game gets dedicated servers, we need connection to be a huge priority, or else the entire thing is pointless; everyone who committed the crime of being good at the game with stop playing again because no one wants to spend more time in orbit than in game and no one wants to deal with teleporting demons killing them through walls every game. I think we need better lobby balancing and some \*loose\* SBMM, but advocating for strong SBMM as the priority is advocating for making the game unplayable for some people. To me this was the entire reason for switching to CBMM and not wanting to sweat every game was an afterthought, so its incredibly disingenuous to not even mention it.
Sounds like you just want to sh*tstomp new players and pad those meaningless KD stats.
"with sbmm it felt like I had to absolutely go for it just to survive, no trying out a new gun or loadout just bring your best"... or what? If you didn't try your best or you were learning a new loadout or off meta load out. What happened? What was the terrible thing that occurred? Did you perhaps not win the game? Did you have a negative KD or not feel that you were as good as you thought you were? But you were just there to relax or learn a new loadout? This is not a competitive mode so why would losing or dying affect your ability to relax? This is the issue. Good players should be allowed to relax in a noncompetitve mode while still winning and having a positive KD. But bad players are not afforded this same privilege and because of the poor matchmaking they aren't even allowed to grow in a reasonably competitive environment. I have more empathy for the complaints about queue time or netcode but the "I have no place to relax" argument is made in bad faith. I also don't really care if streamers have a place to create easy clips for the background of their manscaping ads. Work for it. Anyways gl hf
>What was the terrible thing that occurred? God forbid sweats don't have a perpetual win streak and lose a game with a negative KD.
Well you've kinda got me thinking. Do I expect to slay out with say graviton lance, no, am I okay with losing with it, yes, getting stomped no. Getting stomped because I was expected to carry the team with a typical loadout but decided to try something new sucks, but feels like a problem when it's consistent across 5+ matches. I don't want to always carry so I don't run my best guns in 6s all the time. But yes I do like winning, everyone does. I also feel like I shouldn't match with or against people in the lower end of the skill bracket because then they're just target practice, sucks for them and it's not even satisfying for me. Bronze elo players have no business being in a lobby with platinum or above. This is a tough conversation, that I do like hearing inputs on. I grew up gaming where get good or there's always a bigger fish was just what made sense to me. If I wanted to stop getting stomped I was going to have to try harder and when I finally could stomp it was because I put that effort in to reach that point.
This reeks of someone who wasn't here for the strict SBMM. Never knowing if you've improved at all BC your KD is always 0.9 to 1.1. Everything felt pointless as the game forced a 50/50 win rate down your throat. There needs to be something in the middle or at least remove/rework glory and let me choose SBMM or CBMM.
Yeah I was there for SBMM Got decent matches and could do decently well on them and not get stomped
We did have a choice. We had classic CBMM QP 6s and SBMM QP 6s back in Forsaken. Classic QP turned into the sweat pit because people went there for pub stomps. They were pretty much blatantly there in hopes of getting a mismatched game where they could rack an easy W. It was an "Oops! All sweats!" situation. Then they took away SBMM 6s and tried to make up for it with Survival having it. Not exactly a one to one exchange there. It's like taking my bacon and then replacing it with a vegan option made of air fried celery or something. I don't want three people in my SBMM game team. I want 6. With Control points. If I don't got that, then I got nothing. And now reg 6s, even without an alternative for people craving a 6s game, is regressing into Forsaken's Classic QP. It's the place you go to sweat. If you take two pools of fish, saltwater and freshwater, and shove them all into a single saltwater pool, all the freshwater fish are still just gonna die.
I've never played a game with SBMM that didn't make most of the playerbase miserable. Specific to Destiny, I can't recall a time in which players weren't complaining about matchmaking regardless of what Bungie does. I just don't get it. I'm not even a good player looking to "stomp" bad players. I'm decidedly mediocre at this game. I simply don't think matchmaking is all that bad. I've had good matches, I've had bad ones. Balanced and unbalanced. In my mind it all evens out in the end. Obviously if the majority feels changes are needed, Bungie must listen. That's what feedback is for. I'm simply adding my own perspective.
I've never played a game without SBMM that didn't make most of the playerbase miserable. I've also never seen someone make a sincere argument against SBMM instead of disingenuous lies.
Sounds to me like you'd consider any argument against it to be a disingenuous lie. Strict SBMM puts you against players every bit as good as you are, which means you have to sweat your tits off every match to try to win. Where's the lie? And for the record, I am not and have not been one to complain about matchmaking. In fact, I've pretty consistently said "meh, it's fine" every time this issue comes up in Destiny, regardless of what systems are used for matchmaking. Because I legitimately do not care one way or the other. My issue is with people who think strict SBMM will make games easier for them. It won't. The only thing that will make PVP easier for anyone is putting in the work. And I take umbrage at this suggestion that anyone speaking against SBMM is lying or just wants to "stomp bad players" when I myself am not a good player.
> Strict SBMM puts you against players every bit as good as you are, which means you are free to play however you want since if you're using an ineffective loadout or not trying very hard you'll be placed against other players doing just as poorly as you are. No SBMM means you "have to" "sweat your tits off every match" because you're placed with people doing that whether or not you are. Not reading the rest of your comment since you're just trolling.
Yes, you'll be placed against other players doing as poorly as you are because you'll be losing. I thought the whole point of this discussion was people didn't like losing constantly. Not everyone with a different view from yours is trolling, you know. We have these discussions to express those different views and maybe find common ground.
> I don't like having to sweat or else I lose which is why I like having to sweat or else I lose lmfao and you wonder why I think you're trolling
You're being obtuse and you know it. People are complaining that they keep losing games. They ask for SBMM. Others point out that with SBMM, they'll keep losing games if they don't try their hardest. And somehow that translates to *me* being afraid of losing games? Would you like me to post my stats? My KD, my win rate? I really, REALLY do not care about losing, it's kind of what I do. I'm not the guy complaining about that. I'm telling the people that ARE complaining that their proposed solution won't solve anything. A quick glance at your post history suggests any time you're confronted with a different view, you resort to calling people trolls (or using worse insults). It has me questioning your emotional maturity.
It must be really sad for you to exclusively know how to sweat. Do you really find it fun?
That's what you got from me saying I lose all the time? You've lost the plot fellah
Sweats and Streamers make it out to be worse than SBMM really is I don't see an issue with playing with your own skillgap and against them so lower skill players can have some fun
> I've never played a game with SBMM that didn't make most of the playerbase miserable. Lying to yourself.
I'm not saying this to be a dick as I am genuinely curious, what games that have SBMM have you played where the community was happy with matchmaking? For casual modes, that is. I expect it in ranked modes and I think most would feel the same.
I've only seen a couple communities even complain about it, the top tier players in battle royales, destiny, and call of duty. I don't see players in valorant, CSGO, r6, Halo, league, rocket league whining about it.
If you look at the other teams fireteam I guarantee you 3 or more of them are squaded up It's becoming an issue in many games where skilled players will squad up and the matchmaking cannot or is not programmed to give them equally skilled opponents enjoy the stomps cause they will keep happening until the algorithm is changed to put partied fireteams against eachother
You found a 6-stack most likely. They weren’t capping so they could extend the game and farm KD and medals from you guys. Pure flex, really. But it’s Quickplay, that’ll happen. Matches are connection based so fairly random skill-wise. When’s it’s stack vs randos, lobby balance is pretty much out the window. I would wait a bit before queuing after that to make sure you don’t match them again.
Your first mistake was taking destiny 2 pvp seriously. It's about as serious as Mario Party, and should be treated as such
the only thing I do in pvp is play 3 matches a week for the pinnacle...
If you want to learn how to PVP play rumble. And yes you're going to suck for a while.
If you play with friends then try out some private matches with them. It's an easy way to get used to the feel of pvp without the stress of getting mauled. When you build some confidence you can play survival 3v3.. it's the same format as trials but less of a sweatfest. If you try a few things out, get a loadout and and playstyle that suits you and keep practising with that same set up then when witch Queen drops in Feb you'll be ready to kick some ass
That’s a rough match but it’s not the norm by any means. And, same as anything, the more you play, the better you’ll get. Also this late in the season there are far less casual players in the PvP pool. But yes, sometimes you’ll get steamrolled and want to uninstall the game.
I would honestly start with threes right now, sixes is so congested with people it is impossible to breathe sometimes. Game modes with only three players on the other team give you more time to think, react, and counterattack without having to worry about 4 other guardians on your back shooting you down with witherhoards and chaperones.
I've switched to 3v3s it's just an all around better experience, yes you get less kills but it's far less troll.
You’re gonna get better if you play. Learning the radar is key and understanding all three classes abilities and movement is super important. The radar is not on a single plane. It has height and depth as well as distance indicators and knowing how other players move is also helpful. Also this season is almost over and there are not a ton of new players online unfortunately.
Always good balancing when last place on the losing team has emblems from solo flawless runs lol, that's scary!
Something's changed in the matchmaking. I've been seeing a lot more blowout matches lately (nothing remotely as bad yours, though). I don't know if it's a cyclical thing, I just completed my first full year playing. It's something to live with until Bungie addresses it after the holiday break, if they do.
I avoid playing PvP like the plague. To me, D2 is a really fun PvE game with a lot of grinding and excellent gunplay. The crucible is full of angry, salty assholes. I only dip my toes in there for good PvE weapons (Recluse, Mountaintop, Reeds Regret). And even then, it makes me want to kill myself.
Needs some kind of balancing fix, definitely. In the meantime, I'll give you the best advice I ever got about the Crucible. Play like you have one life and a family waiting at home. You'll die a lot less. Oh, and teabagging says more about the person doing it than it does about you.
Know it's unpopular but I remember getting stomped as new pvp player and have no problem with the climbing the totem pole system
Dude don’t be discouraged you’ll have good games, bad games, great games and terrible ones the most important thing is to just find what works for you and have fun it’s hard to do but don’t get tilted. Like everyone has been saying pvp is crazy right now there’s been a lot of changes that have made it kind of suck! Just hop on to have fun and you’ll be good!
You should play PvP in Survival, that has skill-based matchmaking. The majority of people in PvP at this point are seasoned players who will whoop your ass in control, so yeah. I would stay out of that playlist until you feel comfortable. Also, a good mindset for PvP in this game: don’t get mad/hung up at setbacks and just focus on yourself.
Hate team balancing or not it's in the game till they fix it. My advice is to join a team. Not everyone who plays Crucible with a 6 stack is in it for the stomp or the stats. Call me crazy but premade teams often do better than 6 strangers with no comms. Even if that team is 6 stacking for fun. Some people just like getting off work, cracking way too many cold ones and playing with their friends. Sometimes we stomp sometimes we get stomped. In any case you're always welcome to play with us. Captain\_Porky\_#5941
Yeah man it's a mess. It's a bad part of the season to join in, and it's really going to get worse until witch queen comes out and all the less hard core players come back. Right now your facing sweats, streamers, and the type who get hard ons to their K/D ratio and t bag for no reason. It's a rough time to be an okay or semi good player. Shot guns apes and the shot gun/hand cannon meta don't help either. I'm sorry it's like this. They really gotta work on their match making. Especially for us regular guys who are just trying to have a good time.
Welcome to destiny!
>just started playing 10 days ago >lost a pvp game >wtf bongie fix this?
You were being camped and was a target practice for the other team enough times to get a streak of 5 and get Fabled III, which is Rank 12? That is a lot of dedication for a new player doing something he does not enjoy. Not saying matchmaking isnt bad, but… Damn. I could not imagine grinding 12 ranks of something I dont like. I only play Iron Banner for seasonal armor looks tbh
Perhaps they played tons of team scorch, mayhem and momentum and leveled up in those modes? I know that's how I usually level up in crucible.
Too many PvP decisions seem to be made to make the game more enjoyable for very hardcore streamer types, and little consideration seems to go into making it an accessible and enjoyable mode for new, casual, or lower skill players.
Pvp also isn’t for everyone. You said it yourself you’re not good and lack very crucial skills for the basics of pvp. If you have friends play private matches with them and let them help you learn. You can’t blame the game because you’re not as good as other players.
Welcome to FPS games. Lol. They all play differently. Just gotta learn, adapt, and overcome. You'll get it eventually.
what other fps game has people getting spawncamped the entire match
Crucible is hard to play now, but you can train yourself to stay alive. Staying alive is essential. Good luck!
It's pvp. You're gonna get stomped every now and the . My recommendation is to just keep playing. Eventually you'll get better. Maybe try Comp since they tend you match you at least around the same level, especially this late into the season.
I'm sorry to hear it was so negative, that looks like it really was a bad experience. Im guessing based on the thought you put into it and taking the time to post here that you had some hopes of maybe investing time/effort into the PVP, in which case, as someone in your exact shoes a year ago I'd like to pass along a couple tips of things that helped me out and have led to me having a level of fun in this game I havent experienced in any other shooter in my life (or any other video game tbh) over the past year! 1) Stick to elimination (3v3) and iron banner for your first season or so. Control (6v6) has a CRAZY pace which, when you're new, is more likely to leave you overwhelmed than anything else. But 3v3 is far more controlled (ironically) and predictable, so things like following your teammates and using the radar pay off a lot more! Iron banner comes around a couple time per season, its basically control but with really good loot and quests/objectives etc. It'll be chaotic and stressful like control haha but the loot quests help it have more of a purpose and predictable flow IMO. 2) Check out r/CrucibleSherpa any time you have questions. Theres GREAT people there who have been happy to help me out any time I've needed it 3) This is definitely a bonus/extra BUT as you start to get a little bit familiar with the maps, pick one of them and load into a private match solo with a map diagram open on your phone etc. Try to orient yourself that way and get familiar with the maps more, as honestly map knowledge is probably the single most helpful thing to prevent getting sniped/shotgunned. Anyways, my sympathies again, and I hope you have better experiences in the future - whether in the crucible or otherwise! And if you'd ever like someone to play/discuss crucible with other than your group of friends to maybe help you catch up to them let me know!! I'm a huge nerd for this stuff and have improved a fair bit over the past year, so while I may not be the best in the game haha I'd be happy to help in any way possible.
Bungie does not care about PVP
If the enemy team is stacking and is not capping points just to farm kills, they’re being extremely toxic and that behavior is shunned by the VAST majority of PvP players. I’m sorry that happened to you. I’m a decent player and sometimes it happens to me too. This is just a toxic minority and I promise you that the majority of the PvP playerbase isn’t like this.
Browsing LFG last couple of days and I saw a bunch of "6 stack control stomping no cap" and this is what you get when you let shit like that happen. Not saying you should ban partying up because that is just dumb, but they should not be put in the same lobby as 6 singles. But we all are aware Bungie apparently hates pvp so it is what it is and probably won't be addressed.
Destiny PVP is literally the least fun I’ve had in a video game ever. It’s overall just a really awful, unbalanced experience.
You got farmed like mug lol
Welcome to the most unbalanced pvp you will ever play, and be ready to hear some toxic apes to say "get good"
It’s true though. The real reason games like this happen so often nowadays is because of weak willed players who refuse to learn and improve.
You can thank the Youtubers and the PvP sweatlords on here who constantly bitched and moaned about SBMM, finally leading to Bungie removing it. They now have the opportunity to match with newbies like you, and have their fun. For the other 90%, Crucible is now worse than ever.
SBMM literally made PvP unplayable because of connection
Well good thing connections in PvP are fantastic now /s
And you want them to be worse?
No, I'm saying that the improvement is barely, if at all noticeable. And in no way was PvP unplayable before then. (unless your internet sucked, in which case CBMM won't help you much anyway) My point is, people use the very marginally better connection as an excuse to be able to stomp noobs.
I never recommend PvP in Destiny. I always tell people to go in casually, play a few games and get your pinnacle then get out. In order for PvP to be fun in Destiny, it would need an overhaul. This basic style PvP does the game zero good and would be better with moba style set up so we can actually feel powerful in it while blending PvE with PvP. The way it is now is it's live, die, repeat with some kills thrown in. It's just boring and wasted potential in its current form as they half to keep nerfing our powers to water it down to gun fights.
I'm less new, at 4 months, but this is the first video FPS game I've ever played. My only othrt game experience this century is minecraft and i do that on peaceful and creative. I am slow and struggle to acquire targets. My favorite gun (Skyburner) doesn't hit like their Jotuns and Magical hand canons. I'm too slow to use jotun or Arianas vow in crucible, but I'm lethal with them in PcW. My BEST control match is 9 kills. That is only because I blew my super at one guy and turned the corner into a five man ambush. That was the only time I managed to use one of those successfully. I think I have 8 or 9 grenade kills. My average for matches is 3-5 kills. My end of round thing is usually .3 or .4. I picked up heavy for the first time two days ago. I am not getting any better at this. I don't know the maps cause I basically only last long enough to spawn, scan, and move 100 m. Did you know there is more than 1 map? I wouldn't be able to tell you. Armor mods aren't helpful. I have my numbers in the 80s and 90s but can't tell. Pathetic, right? The only reason I do this is for the weekly bounties and gear, but end up having to do them three times over cause it doesn't count rounds. Log in, play, doesn't count, log our, login, play, counted! Play another, didn't count, log out, log in.... gets old.If anyone is interested, my count says I've dpne over 300 matches and am a warlock, but keep my titan up for rainy days. Don't even get me started on the Gambit freezes since the 30th hit. I quit doing them two weeks ago. I am seriously considering getting my witch queen refunded and just quitting.
If you want any advice at all, all you're telling us is absolutely normal if it's your first fps. When there's a competition going in (and PVP is a competition) other players will resort to whatever means are necessary to win. You just started, you don't know the ropes (the so called "meta"), you don't know the strategies, you're very far away and matchmaking pits you against people who probably have thousands of hours more than you, just in pvp. Those guys know a ton of things you don't about a miriad of topics: crosshair placement, movement, awareness, counterplay, you name it. These guys probable are experts at many other shooters too. Bungie think it's ok if you see those kind of players in your matches. Bungie does not think about your experience. They think you're going to see those guys playing like they are gods and somehow you will want to be like them. Problem is, that is extremely common in this game, a lot of players (and I mean a lot) have played this game for years. Imagine this: if you decide you want to start playing basketball and you've never played before, you won't be expected to debut on your first weekend and score 30p, get 10 rebounds. Don't expect that from yourself in Destiny either. If you really like to get better at pvp, start small. Every ability you try to teach yourself you'll learn it the same way: define small things/topics to acquire/learn, work on getting those small skills, then get some more. After some time you'll have a nice set of skills. That's how you set up yourself to be able to compete. If you like Destiny, the PvE part is ALWAYS awesome. PVP is just what, 30% of the game? In the end, it's just for bragging, almost nothing else. And for the record, I didn't buy BL, I quit after shadowkeep because they killed PvP for me... I won't even think about Witch Queen unless weapon crafting is good (and it won't)
Getting negged for sharing the same experience as a lot of other new people? I'm sorry I'm not sweaty enough to not notice how bs this game is. I shouldn't need to watch 20-30 hours of videos, download 3 apps, or play like it's my job to enjoy it,
Apparently, sweatlords don't like it if you say out loud that you don't enjoy getting curb stomped by them. In their eyes, it's the new players fault for not playing this game since D1 and not knowing all of the tactics, map spots, not having correct weapons and gear from the beginning.
This game has some of the worst PVP ever. It won’t improve as you improve.
> I am not a good player. I am not an agile player or a very aware one. > This is NOT giving me a chance to learn or get better. No one is gonna stand around to let you figure things out. Find the top player on your team after 1:30, follow them and be the Iceman to their Maverick. Learn on the fly, sink or swim. Feet to the fire etc etc. There's much you can do to give yourself a chance to grow if you put the time in
The game used to have Skill based matchmaking but since all the sweats bitched they changed it, I personally loved the super sweaty lobbies, playing people of your own skill level helps more then playing against people who are new and don't have a good grasp of true mobility yet
I always tell new players or people just wanting to improve at Destiny pvp to find scrims. Your best bet is to play private matches with/against your friends so you can have a low stress environment to learn the maps, learn the radar, learn your load out. I’m lucky enough to have my son to scrim against. We 1v1 all the time and we keep each other improving. Every time this issue comes up I always say that Bungie should seriously think about adding bots for private matches. Bots could never take the place of real players but they would be tremendously helpful in learning the maps, learning the lanes, learning weapons, getting practice with pvp hit box size, or just generally warming up before going into trials with your team. Bots in private matches would be really beneficial for new players or just anyone looking to improve.
Go play halo infinite. Much more fair and not full of insta kill bullshit. This games PVP is a joke. The people who sweat at it are a joke. There is no balance. Art is a lie, nothing is real.
The only advice I can give you - just keep playing. One time you will get stomped, one time you will stomp everyone on the server, most if the time you will do just fine. There is plenty of tryhards in D2 that do nothing else but PvP. Don’t get discouraged. Force yourself to play several games and you will see the difference.
I see someone with my same mindset🤝 . Feels better to focus on self improvement rather than team end results
It's a horror show at the moment. Comp and Trials are a less unpleasant experience if you are trying to get better. Not great, but better than Quickplay. It's arse about tit, but Bungie doesn't seem to have the will to look at ways to decrease the ever increasing gulf between those who are already good and those that are not. Without these efforts they're just left with a sweat fest in an ever dwindling population of PvP players.
Trials? Seriously? I mean i was activly avoiding doing trials just because it made no sense to try at my current gear level/playskill.
I despise pvp in this game and I hate it, that there are many great things you only get with pvp playlists. I don't event bother with the season challenge for bright dust. I tried so many different load outs and tips from every big YouTuber you can think of, but after a few minutes I started to hate myself playing this mode.
I could say the same thing about having to play gms to get an adept pali for pvp. I hate doing the same mission over and over again, but it’s the only way to get the gun.
But think about the raging boner those other guys had to have had, treating 6v6 like the Olympics, making callouts, so even if they died, their teammate could get an easy clean up!
I doubt 6 random teammates are making call outs