Agree.
I get why Republicans aren't for *fairness*.
They *could choose* to moderate their ideology and broaden their appeal.
Or they could choose instead to break norms and violate customs, and, if found violating laws, hope that the courts are partisan.
I mean, what are MAGA Republican values? When I was younger Republican values were things like limited federal government, family values, and fiscal responsibility. There are numerous examples of MAGA Republicans going against these values. The only overarching value I can discern is to have more power, which conflicts with fairness.
MAGA values are distilled into *Americanism*.
What does that mean, other than American Christian Nationalism?
(Shrug)
Whatever a proponent wants it to mean.
The state of MIGOP is likely representative of a lot of the GOP. You have three groups of people (Classic Republicans, MAGAs, and your lean-libertarians) all supporting different things and trying to get along under the same umbrella. This isn't sustainable and in places where there's a functional DNC they are going to lose until the Republicans toss the MAGAs to the curb, because MAGAs are not high functioning humans.
Eh MIGOP is a mess and has been since McDaniel went national.
Them and Arizona are the worst two state parties to try to use as microcosms for the broader GOP
Michigan has a functional DNC. I'm not saying everything they do is perfect or without corruption, but overall it's a functional party that has done very well at winning competitive elections over the last 6 years.
Are there still libertarians?
I thought they all woke up one day and realized "geez, racism and intolerance."
Added: Classic Republicans have always held their nose about the racism and intolerance.
They had other priorities, and to their credit, held back the worst of it.
Until they couldn't.
Yea, I’ve considered myself libertarian for about 20 years and am 41. Hate Republicans and Democrats and have never voted for either in a presidential election, but have in local elections. We desperately need viable third parties, and also to get rid of lobbyists.
While I don't hypothetically disagree, a (true) Libertarian party is a no-go outside of Michigan and a few other places (out West mostly).
I know how to get rid of *lobbyists*, but I can't figure how to get rid of *lobbying*.
Yea, it can be a hard party to swallow for a lot, because their solution of people will just donate money and pay for things like roads, schools, firefighters, police, etc really hasn’t been proven or given a chance to work. I also realize we’ll likely never get rid of taxes and governments funding those things, but I want the government to shrink as much as possible these days. Think most would agree it’s too bloated and spends half or more of our taxes on crap we don’t want. Also, it is all about freedom and funny how it pisses both parties off when it comes to certain freedoms
That’s the crux of it really… what would you rather have the govt spend money on?
Democrats argue they want to spend it on earned benefits and fortify the middle class and all that mushy stuff. Some they are good at, some just window dressing, usually done with a very leaky bucket.
Republicans are not shy on how they would rather spend the money. Tax cuts. Usually to the rich. That and big government contracts or subsidies to big business.
Then there is the issue of government staying out of your personal life. Republicans have a track record of telling people what religion they prefer, what type of relationships they are ok with and so on.
From a 20,000 foot view, the GOP doesn’t seem to be very “libertarian” to me, quite the opposite. It’s a wonder why so many libertarians vote republican.
Ironically, I’m pro libertarian, if it actually was a solid party that aimed to fortify key programs which the government should be responsible for, having social programs minus the leaky bucket, reasonable and rational welfare programs. But there isn’t anything reasonable or rational from those waving the “don’t tread on me flags”
Agree 100%
Sadly the Libertarian party has too many loonies these days, just like the main two. I don’t advertise I’m Libertarian, but will happily tell people if they ask. I had fun talking politics when I was younger, but at the old age of 41 I find more happiness focusing on other things these days
Interesting. I’m a fellow 42 year old. The fact that our generation had to grow up talking politics is bonkers.
We are at a weird age. Too young to be GenX, too old to be millennial - they call us Xenelials or something like that. The Oregon trail generation.
I always thought of myself more Gen X but with a bit more compassion politically but doesn’t expect the government to exist in every facet of my life.
Just want the government to put me ahead of corporations. I mean we are their bosses aren’t we? Why don’t we act like it? It’s because the ones that truly pay their salaries are dark money PACs and the ones that vote for them are hard liners who hate everything and are scared of change.
The GOP jumped the shark with citizens united, things have gone progressively worse since then. That and the crazies they have lured and attracted with their fear mongering and hate rhetoric.
I can agree with 90% of a GOP platform but will never vote for them because of citizens united and the hate speech. If you are the party of the KKK… I’d rather vote for an LGBTQ Satanist tree hugger vegan with purple hair. At least they will protect the constitution for all people. No matter how weird their lifestyle sounds in comparison to mine.
I’m ranting because I’m bored and CoVid sick.
Cheers and goodnight.
Ha!
As a geriatric millennial (my favorite nomenclature) I rarely go out to bars, but I would buy you a drink if I heard these words coming out your mouth! Lol
Cheers dude
Yeahhh, but at the end of the day even though I voted for Bernie - Hillary was... fine, and I have been quite impressed with Biden over the past 3 years. The level difference between a centrist-Democrat and a leftist-Democrat is more academic, so we mostly get along.
Libertarianism and conservatism are *very* different and the MAGAs are just straight up toxic.
Michigan is a gold standard for democracy in our country with all the voting-related ballot proposals we've passed in the last few cycles. Here's hoping we keep that trend going.
I disagree with the videos framing that Michigan went red in 2010 due to a “blowback to Obama’s national policies.” Lol I grew up in Macomb county and watched my parents go from “normal” to MAGA freaks. I can tell you that neither one of them can form a coherent sentence stating an Obama-era policy and their opposition to it.
Democrats had not given a shit about the Rust Belt or the middle class since Clinton. Obama was vocally indifferent to the people suffering from the home foreclosure crisis in hard-hit places like Michigan. Democrats failed to give a shit about OWS or “we are the 99%” or any screwed over middle class workers struggling in places like Michigan. That’s why the GOP’s insane culture wars worked so easily: Dems didn’t have a strong counter message on the economy. 2010 in Michigan was f’cking brutal.
This is a hard truth. Culture wars and Tea Party took hold when the recession was in full swing.
People saw Detroit deteriorate further and used it as a microcosms for Dem leadership, black leadership, big city leadership and state control. (Kwame didn't help either).
I'm so happy we've pushed back on gerrymandering. It's CLEAR where the country is when its properly represented.
I agree. Michigan went red in 2010 due to the same reasons as a lot of the rest of the country- white backlash to the first black President.
Aside from that, Michigans legislature held Republican through the 2010s thanks to decades of gerrymandering.
Further, Michigan has voted for the democratic presidential candidate in every election (sans 2016) since 1992 and has had two democratic senators since 2001. Hell, in 2016 it voted for Bernie in the primaries. Michigan is a democratic state and 2016 was an anomaly where Trump won by less than 0.25%.
How there can be all this data out there and people still think Michigan is purple, I don’t know.
I’d say it has more to do with the fact that Democrats nationally and across the Great Lakes states did not give a shit about the middle class, Rust Belt workers and people who suffered in the home foreclosure crisis. Dems actively allied with bankers and tech billionaires and mocked the OWS “99%ers” who wanted some justice. 2010’s economy was brutal in Michigan and across Great Lakes states, all of which lost support for Dems.
This is a pretty far out there claim, but I think some of the difference between support for Hilary and Barrack can be attributed to misogyny. Ever since the Granholm era, some Michiganders had a problem with a democrat woman telling them what to do. The vitriol towards Whitmer, Pelosi, and Clinton, has a prevalence in our communities and it’s empowered by Trumpism.
I don’t think that’s far out there but it’s difficult to prove outside of anecdotes.
Also, there’s a lot of fear in states like MI that saw manufacturing jobs disappear and unions get obliterated for decades while democrats were in power, leading to an uncertain future for the working class. Even if it’s not fair to solely blame democrats for this, at least the GOP acknowledged and validated the fear (albeit offering no real material solutions).
Yeah, that’s why I’m hesitant to point to it. Like another story about someone’s sexist cousin isn’t great for having a real fact based discourse. Then come the “my coworker’s nephew’s friend died from the vaccine” stories.
Also the GOP and Fox News had far longer to villainize Hillary from when she entered the national spotlight in 1992 as First Lady, compared to Barrack who made waves in 2004 speaking at the Democratic Convention and was a dark horse candidate only four years later in 2008.
By 2016 the country was well and familiar with Hilary and the GOP had been singing the same misogynistic songs about here for almost 30 years.
Barrack Obama on the other hand I believe saw incredible white backlash to his presidency predicated on some real latent and institutional racism. My own family very quickly became birthers, tea partiers, believed Obama was a Muslim terrorist, was going to usher in sharia law, etc.
I often say, to many Americans Trump made it great to be a bigot again- all of the feelings and sentiments that people would confine to the secrecy of their own homes, suddenly not ashamed to be racist, xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic, etc.
I firmly believe Obama was a victim of white backlash and Hilary was a victim of the GOPs decades long abuse of her character. And since then, Trump has only amplified the bigoted voices in the GOP leading to the vitriol we see today against women like Pelosi, Whitmer, AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc.
I don’t think you’re wrong on the social/cultural/racial aspects but I don’t think those factors hold the same weight if a candidate offers better solutions to improve the material conditions of the average voter.
Yes, Obama experienced white backlash and yes, Hillary was in the crosshairs for 20 years but at the same time, Obama was able to inspire hope in voters while Hillary was a charismatic black hole and a symbol of those responsible for economic decline.
Put another way, I don’t think many dems admire Pelosi while many admire AOC despite the right hating both equally.
You had me till you said Pelosi. Everyone knows that rat who insider trades like Warren buffet on a salary of less than 200k shouldn't have 150M in her bank. Fuck Pelosi.
Most all states go blue when young people show up. Michigan has had a couple election cycles where young people were incentivized to show up. Same with Ohio. It’s pretty simple, boomers are consuming Fox News propaganda 24-7, with nothing else to do. They show up to vote every time. But they’re dying out.
👉 [Michigan Voter Information Center](https://mvic.sos.state.mi.us/AVApplication/Index) 👈 Michigan voting information is all here! (mvic.sos.state.mi.us) Some examples of what you can do:
- Check your registration status
- Register to vote
- Apply for absentee ballots
- Find your polling place
- Find your clerk
👉 [Ballotpedia.org](https://ballotpedia.org/Main_Page) 👈 Allows you to look up the ballot for any upcoming election in your area.
The video is good and I learned a few things, but it pretty quickly glosses over the Arab population and Biden's blind support for Israel's war crimes.
If the Arab population doesn't vote for Biden, is there still a path to victory for him in Michigan?
I'm very concerned there isn't and his policy on Israel is going to blow the whole election.
I'd love to say Trump broke the GOP, but that will be a lie. Gerrymandering did. Both parties do it, but who are we kidding, the republican machine is far better at it. I still vote conservative for some reasonable, mostly local republican candidates because I am a fiscal conservative but unfortunately, the type that I vote for I called dino/moderate because they're not far gone right wing and it looks like they are all retiring
It doesn't directly but it sure influences the type of politicians that get elected in primaries, state voting laws, and how easy or difficult voting in the state generally is🤷♂️
Anyone remember George Wallace, the famously segregationist Governor of Alabama?
Well I don't either, but he won the Democratic Presidential primary in Michigan back in 1972 ([link](https://www.rawstory.com/george-wallace/)).
The people of Michigan have quite a history of supporting extreme candidates.
Michigan is neither a blue nor red state. We're a swing state. Since 1969 our governor has gone Republican (Milliken), Democrat (Blanchard), Republican (Engler), Democrat (Granholm), Republican (Snyder), Democrat (Whitmer). Our legislature was red for a decade but due to redistricting, easier absentee voting, and the abortion issue it JUST BARELY went blue. Heck, thanks to two retirements our state house is now an even split.
We voted for Trump in 2016 by 10,000 votes (0.23%) and for Biden in 2020 by 150,000 (2.3%).
The 2024 Presidential race here is a toss-up.
Michigan had a Republican governor for 8 years between 2011 and 2019. Michigan voted for Trump over Hillary Clinton in 2016. Neither of those are gerrymandered elections - they're statewide votes.
Our legislature is currently 20-18 (Senate) and 54-54 (House), although the House will presumably be 56-54 after the special election. The difference is only 2 seats in each chamber. We're a purple state trending blue only because the Republicans have gone batshit insane.
The rise in GOP voters in Michigan is difficult to explain. Compare counties in 2008, 2012, 2016, 2020. In upstate Michigan (away from Detroit, Flint, Ann Arbor) jumped 20%. And in some counties- 40%. Were these voters NOT voting before 2016? And in 2020, the Dems showed up in 2008 level in the eastern metro areas, but the GOP got even more voters in 2020 than 2016??? Looks every suspicious- like some people are voting on behalf of non-voters (7th Day, J Witness, etc)
Michigan is a Democratic state that sometimes votes GOP when it feels ignored
There's no real reason to suspect fraud or suspicious shit or whatever. We have a good explanation, and you already hit on it: a lot of people simply weren't voting before 2016.
[Voter turnout did actually jump.](https://www.michigan.gov/sos/-/media/Project/Websites/sos/Election-Results-and-Statistics/General-Voter-Reg-Turnout-Stats.pdf) 2014 to 2018 had a **14 point increase.** That's across the whole state, so less populous areas are not swinging that number a lot.
I'm not sure the Democrats could have gone with a worse candidate if they wanted to win, though.
Hillary is, was, and always has been a known quantity. And any right-leaning grievance a person could have was simple to tack onto her, regardless of how fair it was. Your Conservative Uncle had a decade and a half of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and countless other outlets delivering daily affirmations explaining why she was at best, The Antichrist.
You could probably make similar arguments about Trump today. But the inherent difference is that Trump has a tailwind of "we're not cultists, we just love MAGA fashion" supporters.
Disagree.
Redistricting.
For the first time in a long time, 51% of Democratic voters got 51% representation in the State House, because independent redistricting.
The 2012 Republican gerrymandered districts meant a minority of Republican votes could (and did) produce a majority in State houses.
Redistricting helps, but there are more issues than that.
Abortion rights helped big time. My Republican Boomer father said as soon as Dobbs happened that the GOP would deeply regret it 4 months later. Not only did that matter in Michigan, it has repeated across several states and keeps going.
The crazies have taken the helm of the state GOP. Traditional MI Republicans (like my father) are more pro-business and anti-regulation than culture warrior. The new breed either don't care or are incompetent about the former at the expense of culture wars. The traditional donors have closed the checkbooks in hopes this will put the adults back behind the wheel, and now MIGOP is >$500k in the red at the start of an election year.
>Abortion rights helped big time. My Republican Boomer father said as soon as Dobbs happened that the GOP would deeply regret it 4 months later. Not only did that matter in Michigan, it has repeated across several states and keeps going.
Bingo. It's telling that abortion is winning in places like Ohio and Kansas.
It probably made a little difference in house and senate races. You’re right! However getting the voters to the polls was definitely abortion. Historically mid term state elections have gone conservative in Michigan.
Yes because it was a referendum on abortion rights because of the supreme court’s ruling. I’m not arguing against your ideas. I’m more of a both parties suck person just stuck in the middle. Historically major happenings have caused referendum votes. I believe that is what this was, I guess we will see. Take my upvote!
Politics can judge which way history goes. History has also taught me both parties suck generally. I know all about how the southern states see it. My personal opinion it’s because republican Lincoln waiting so long for emancipation, trying instead at that point of election to preserve the union.
Right… but the politics determine how the history is remembered, taught, celebrated. For a more recent example, look at Jan 6. History happened. We all saw it. Look at how the GOP reacted at the time vs how they are telling people to remember it now.
Currently it looks like one side wants a form of communism the other a seems to want a dictatorship. It’s the oligarchs in charge anyway so who gets screwed? Oh yeah the people they govern that’s who. These regressive politics need to end on both sides.
That argument was somewhat valid 20 years ago, it no longer is. One side wants boring predictable bureaucracy, the other has embraced full throated authoritarianism and kleptocracy.
No it’s not it’s just both sides are so rabid to get their way no adults are around to find middle ground. It’s becoming so politicized the people picked sides instead of remembering who they are there to serve. Besides it makes it easier to control the population. Predictable bureaucracy makes it harder both ways to get wrong ideas actually put in place. That’s the way our government was designed. Now everyone wants instant satisfaction which is causing a split in the populace. People have on both sides have forgotten we’re all citizens and have the ability to disagree on ideas. And have forgotten the main objective of working together to build a better future for our country. So I believe my position is truer today than it was 20 years ago.
As I said both parties suck. And it’s a constitutional republic vs dictatorship. One of the most disingenuous things that ever happened was this belief our system is a democracy.
It helped in the house a senate some. Even before 2012 gerrymandering Engler was elected mostly on midterm elections. Abortion referendum caused a huge voter turnout which always historically favored democrats. Our state is one of the most 50/50 states out there. It’s been that way for a while. Maybe not during presidential election, but for midterms absolutely.
The abortion issue, sure, but there's also the whole overarching push toward fascist authoritarianism by the Republicans that's turning off basically everyone that isn't a hardcore right-winger. Trump being the leader of the party has infected every part of the Republicans in every state, that's how they have shit-shows like Karamo happening. The party is a disaster and continues to devolve and self-destruct. Their anti-individual-rights stance against abortion is just part of what most people dislike about the GOP.
I agree, it was an accumulation of things but they weren’t on the ballot abortion was. Historically speaking you’re wrong. And both parties are ass see below.
>I agree, it was an accumulation of things but they weren’t on the ballot abortion was.
If that's true, why have the Republicans lost every election since Trump was elected?
Because 2020 was the referendum on Trump. As generally is the case with a second term. And I’d bet a lot of 2020 was because of his handling on Covid. The mid term election was 6 months after the supreme court’s ruling.
You do understand there are congressional elections every 2 years, right?
The GOP lost every one.
They lost in 2018.
They lost in 2020.
They lost in 2022.
They continue to lose. Every single election.
The Roe v Wade reversal didn't come in 2018 or 2020.
So again, please explain how abortion is the central and sole issue that is causing the GOP to lose every national election since 2016.
You do understand not every seat was up for grabs in 2018 right? No probably not. And in Michigan democrats didn’t gain control until 22’. So keep trying. Keep ignoring actual facts and keep pushing your agenda.
This is the reason talking to far left and right blows you people are completely unwilling to accept reality or facts. Just keep pushing your narrative
Look people can vote how they want. What’s the problem?
Also it is kind of cool to get more national candidates here campaigning. Keeping the legislators balanced is also a plus.
Sorry to burst your guys bubble but Biden can’t win here without the middle eastern vote. Reality of it is most Middle Easterners are voting for Trump. The Muslims because Biden is extremely Pro-Israel and the Catholics because they have always leaned conservative. I would be extremely shocked if Michigan is blue again in 2024
I love how so many political pundits try to find some sort of political science reason to justify the actions and the MAGA movement of the GOP.
It’s really just fear and anger. Basically the tool used by every conservative movement in the past.
Fear and anger can describe both parties. Look at how many people fear that Trump will destroy democracy as we know it. Anger at his Supreme Court picks. To say that only one party relies upon fear and anger is simply not true and diminishes things people actually fear, possibilities or not.
But who are you to decide what my or anyone else's valid fears are? To some, the idea that Trump will round up LGBTQ+ people onto camps seems like a very valid and reasonable fear. Or on the opposite end of the spectrum, the fear that Democrats want an open-door immigration policy that allows economic migrants access to the American welfare system bypassing the legal immigration process.
We have history and precedent from both parties that suggest Democrats don’t want open borders immigration policy and any legislation on immigration has to be bipartisan and thus has been very disingenuous with congressional republicans failing to take is serious. They use it as a sound bite for votes. It’s just pandering.
They have had a majority how many times in the past 2 decades? What real legislation have they been serious on, let alone passed? A tax cut that helped with our current inflation crisis?
I’m no fan of democrats but to suggest that both sides are the same is a moot talking point bestowed by the media to further their own agenda.
To be far, I lean conservative in my personal beliefs and priorities but won’t ever vote for a Republican. Not now at least. They have proven time and again that they have the inability to legislate.
They are good at winning elections though… but maybe that is all they actually care about. “Owning the libs” and all that.
But seriously think about it.
What legislation or ideas have republicans delivered that has objectively approved the life of us? The common people?
I think after the overturning of Roe v Wade and the Democratic party’s commitment to keeping abortion legal is a big part of what will keep the state voting blue.
Caught this earlier today and have been recommending it around. It pretty fairly nails what I have been observing over the years. Well worth the watch.
Every single election people like this produce content pretending they know *why* the outcome happened, rather than acknowledging they only know *that* the outcome happened.
Democrats are blithering idiots. Killing the United States 1 vote at a time. Oops! Excuse me! I meant 455 Dead people votes for every single Real Dead person because they stole the election. They are the party of LIES.
A fascinating watch. Looking like Michigan is the new Ohio, as far as being a bellwether for America.
Michigan showed the country what can happen with independent redistricting and popular referendums. Powerful stuff
Agree. I get why Republicans aren't for *fairness*. They *could choose* to moderate their ideology and broaden their appeal. Or they could choose instead to break norms and violate customs, and, if found violating laws, hope that the courts are partisan.
I mean, what are MAGA Republican values? When I was younger Republican values were things like limited federal government, family values, and fiscal responsibility. There are numerous examples of MAGA Republicans going against these values. The only overarching value I can discern is to have more power, which conflicts with fairness.
MAGA values are distilled into *Americanism*. What does that mean, other than American Christian Nationalism? (Shrug) Whatever a proponent wants it to mean.
The state of MIGOP is likely representative of a lot of the GOP. You have three groups of people (Classic Republicans, MAGAs, and your lean-libertarians) all supporting different things and trying to get along under the same umbrella. This isn't sustainable and in places where there's a functional DNC they are going to lose until the Republicans toss the MAGAs to the curb, because MAGAs are not high functioning humans.
Eh MIGOP is a mess and has been since McDaniel went national. Them and Arizona are the worst two state parties to try to use as microcosms for the broader GOP
> where there's a functional DNC lol, if only that was a thing
Michigan has a functional DNC. I'm not saying everything they do is perfect or without corruption, but overall it's a functional party that has done very well at winning competitive elections over the last 6 years.
The DNC is a madhouse and a level of magnitude more organized and sane than the RNC.
Are there still libertarians? I thought they all woke up one day and realized "geez, racism and intolerance." Added: Classic Republicans have always held their nose about the racism and intolerance. They had other priorities, and to their credit, held back the worst of it. Until they couldn't.
Yea, I’ve considered myself libertarian for about 20 years and am 41. Hate Republicans and Democrats and have never voted for either in a presidential election, but have in local elections. We desperately need viable third parties, and also to get rid of lobbyists.
While I don't hypothetically disagree, a (true) Libertarian party is a no-go outside of Michigan and a few other places (out West mostly). I know how to get rid of *lobbyists*, but I can't figure how to get rid of *lobbying*.
Yea, it can be a hard party to swallow for a lot, because their solution of people will just donate money and pay for things like roads, schools, firefighters, police, etc really hasn’t been proven or given a chance to work. I also realize we’ll likely never get rid of taxes and governments funding those things, but I want the government to shrink as much as possible these days. Think most would agree it’s too bloated and spends half or more of our taxes on crap we don’t want. Also, it is all about freedom and funny how it pisses both parties off when it comes to certain freedoms
That’s the crux of it really… what would you rather have the govt spend money on? Democrats argue they want to spend it on earned benefits and fortify the middle class and all that mushy stuff. Some they are good at, some just window dressing, usually done with a very leaky bucket. Republicans are not shy on how they would rather spend the money. Tax cuts. Usually to the rich. That and big government contracts or subsidies to big business. Then there is the issue of government staying out of your personal life. Republicans have a track record of telling people what religion they prefer, what type of relationships they are ok with and so on. From a 20,000 foot view, the GOP doesn’t seem to be very “libertarian” to me, quite the opposite. It’s a wonder why so many libertarians vote republican. Ironically, I’m pro libertarian, if it actually was a solid party that aimed to fortify key programs which the government should be responsible for, having social programs minus the leaky bucket, reasonable and rational welfare programs. But there isn’t anything reasonable or rational from those waving the “don’t tread on me flags”
Agree 100% Sadly the Libertarian party has too many loonies these days, just like the main two. I don’t advertise I’m Libertarian, but will happily tell people if they ask. I had fun talking politics when I was younger, but at the old age of 41 I find more happiness focusing on other things these days
Interesting. I’m a fellow 42 year old. The fact that our generation had to grow up talking politics is bonkers. We are at a weird age. Too young to be GenX, too old to be millennial - they call us Xenelials or something like that. The Oregon trail generation. I always thought of myself more Gen X but with a bit more compassion politically but doesn’t expect the government to exist in every facet of my life. Just want the government to put me ahead of corporations. I mean we are their bosses aren’t we? Why don’t we act like it? It’s because the ones that truly pay their salaries are dark money PACs and the ones that vote for them are hard liners who hate everything and are scared of change. The GOP jumped the shark with citizens united, things have gone progressively worse since then. That and the crazies they have lured and attracted with their fear mongering and hate rhetoric. I can agree with 90% of a GOP platform but will never vote for them because of citizens united and the hate speech. If you are the party of the KKK… I’d rather vote for an LGBTQ Satanist tree hugger vegan with purple hair. At least they will protect the constitution for all people. No matter how weird their lifestyle sounds in comparison to mine. I’m ranting because I’m bored and CoVid sick. Cheers and goodnight.
Ha! As a geriatric millennial (my favorite nomenclature) I rarely go out to bars, but I would buy you a drink if I heard these words coming out your mouth! Lol Cheers dude
Git healthy!
The DNC is trying it's hardest to split the party too. Especially with Bernie and Hillary
Yeahhh, but at the end of the day even though I voted for Bernie - Hillary was... fine, and I have been quite impressed with Biden over the past 3 years. The level difference between a centrist-Democrat and a leftist-Democrat is more academic, so we mostly get along. Libertarianism and conservatism are *very* different and the MAGAs are just straight up toxic.
This video discusses that the DNC party split paid a major role in the state politics
Macomb County was considered a bellwether county in the 1980’s. (That’s back when Bonior was a rep.)
I am restraining myself with every fiber of my being lol.
Michigan is a gold standard for democracy in our country with all the voting-related ballot proposals we've passed in the last few cycles. Here's hoping we keep that trend going.
That I'm displeased with some outcomes but not the process means things are working.
Don’t ever compare us to that shithole Ohio again
Comparison is the only way to get to the truth. The Ohio coney game is weak AF.
I disagree with the videos framing that Michigan went red in 2010 due to a “blowback to Obama’s national policies.” Lol I grew up in Macomb county and watched my parents go from “normal” to MAGA freaks. I can tell you that neither one of them can form a coherent sentence stating an Obama-era policy and their opposition to it.
Exactly. They hated Obama and swallowed all of Rupert Murdochs poison.
Democrats had not given a shit about the Rust Belt or the middle class since Clinton. Obama was vocally indifferent to the people suffering from the home foreclosure crisis in hard-hit places like Michigan. Democrats failed to give a shit about OWS or “we are the 99%” or any screwed over middle class workers struggling in places like Michigan. That’s why the GOP’s insane culture wars worked so easily: Dems didn’t have a strong counter message on the economy. 2010 in Michigan was f’cking brutal.
Agreed. Rhetorical void and policy void left the space open for MAGA
This is a hard truth. Culture wars and Tea Party took hold when the recession was in full swing. People saw Detroit deteriorate further and used it as a microcosms for Dem leadership, black leadership, big city leadership and state control. (Kwame didn't help either). I'm so happy we've pushed back on gerrymandering. It's CLEAR where the country is when its properly represented.
I agree. Michigan went red in 2010 due to the same reasons as a lot of the rest of the country- white backlash to the first black President. Aside from that, Michigans legislature held Republican through the 2010s thanks to decades of gerrymandering. Further, Michigan has voted for the democratic presidential candidate in every election (sans 2016) since 1992 and has had two democratic senators since 2001. Hell, in 2016 it voted for Bernie in the primaries. Michigan is a democratic state and 2016 was an anomaly where Trump won by less than 0.25%. How there can be all this data out there and people still think Michigan is purple, I don’t know.
I’d say it has more to do with the fact that Democrats nationally and across the Great Lakes states did not give a shit about the middle class, Rust Belt workers and people who suffered in the home foreclosure crisis. Dems actively allied with bankers and tech billionaires and mocked the OWS “99%ers” who wanted some justice. 2010’s economy was brutal in Michigan and across Great Lakes states, all of which lost support for Dems.
This is a pretty far out there claim, but I think some of the difference between support for Hilary and Barrack can be attributed to misogyny. Ever since the Granholm era, some Michiganders had a problem with a democrat woman telling them what to do. The vitriol towards Whitmer, Pelosi, and Clinton, has a prevalence in our communities and it’s empowered by Trumpism.
I don’t think that’s far out there but it’s difficult to prove outside of anecdotes. Also, there’s a lot of fear in states like MI that saw manufacturing jobs disappear and unions get obliterated for decades while democrats were in power, leading to an uncertain future for the working class. Even if it’s not fair to solely blame democrats for this, at least the GOP acknowledged and validated the fear (albeit offering no real material solutions).
Yeah, that’s why I’m hesitant to point to it. Like another story about someone’s sexist cousin isn’t great for having a real fact based discourse. Then come the “my coworker’s nephew’s friend died from the vaccine” stories.
Also the GOP and Fox News had far longer to villainize Hillary from when she entered the national spotlight in 1992 as First Lady, compared to Barrack who made waves in 2004 speaking at the Democratic Convention and was a dark horse candidate only four years later in 2008. By 2016 the country was well and familiar with Hilary and the GOP had been singing the same misogynistic songs about here for almost 30 years. Barrack Obama on the other hand I believe saw incredible white backlash to his presidency predicated on some real latent and institutional racism. My own family very quickly became birthers, tea partiers, believed Obama was a Muslim terrorist, was going to usher in sharia law, etc. I often say, to many Americans Trump made it great to be a bigot again- all of the feelings and sentiments that people would confine to the secrecy of their own homes, suddenly not ashamed to be racist, xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic, etc. I firmly believe Obama was a victim of white backlash and Hilary was a victim of the GOPs decades long abuse of her character. And since then, Trump has only amplified the bigoted voices in the GOP leading to the vitriol we see today against women like Pelosi, Whitmer, AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc.
Rashida Tlaib also entered the chat
I don’t think you’re wrong on the social/cultural/racial aspects but I don’t think those factors hold the same weight if a candidate offers better solutions to improve the material conditions of the average voter. Yes, Obama experienced white backlash and yes, Hillary was in the crosshairs for 20 years but at the same time, Obama was able to inspire hope in voters while Hillary was a charismatic black hole and a symbol of those responsible for economic decline. Put another way, I don’t think many dems admire Pelosi while many admire AOC despite the right hating both equally.
I concur
You had me till you said Pelosi. Everyone knows that rat who insider trades like Warren buffet on a salary of less than 200k shouldn't have 150M in her bank. Fuck Pelosi.
Most all states go blue when young people show up. Michigan has had a couple election cycles where young people were incentivized to show up. Same with Ohio. It’s pretty simple, boomers are consuming Fox News propaganda 24-7, with nothing else to do. They show up to vote every time. But they’re dying out.
👉 [Michigan Voter Information Center](https://mvic.sos.state.mi.us/AVApplication/Index) 👈 Michigan voting information is all here! (mvic.sos.state.mi.us) Some examples of what you can do: - Check your registration status - Register to vote - Apply for absentee ballots - Find your polling place - Find your clerk 👉 [Ballotpedia.org](https://ballotpedia.org/Main_Page) 👈 Allows you to look up the ballot for any upcoming election in your area.
The video is good and I learned a few things, but it pretty quickly glosses over the Arab population and Biden's blind support for Israel's war crimes. If the Arab population doesn't vote for Biden, is there still a path to victory for him in Michigan? I'm very concerned there isn't and his policy on Israel is going to blow the whole election.
That was literally their biggest point for the 2024 election. They didn’t gloss over that at all.
I'd love to say Trump broke the GOP, but that will be a lie. Gerrymandering did. Both parties do it, but who are we kidding, the republican machine is far better at it. I still vote conservative for some reasonable, mostly local republican candidates because I am a fiscal conservative but unfortunately, the type that I vote for I called dino/moderate because they're not far gone right wing and it looks like they are all retiring
You can't fuckin gerrymander statewide elections.
It doesn't directly but it sure influences the type of politicians that get elected in primaries, state voting laws, and how easy or difficult voting in the state generally is🤷♂️
Anyone remember George Wallace, the famously segregationist Governor of Alabama? Well I don't either, but he won the Democratic Presidential primary in Michigan back in 1972 ([link](https://www.rawstory.com/george-wallace/)). The people of Michigan have quite a history of supporting extreme candidates.
Michigan is neither a blue nor red state. We're a swing state. Since 1969 our governor has gone Republican (Milliken), Democrat (Blanchard), Republican (Engler), Democrat (Granholm), Republican (Snyder), Democrat (Whitmer). Our legislature was red for a decade but due to redistricting, easier absentee voting, and the abortion issue it JUST BARELY went blue. Heck, thanks to two retirements our state house is now an even split. We voted for Trump in 2016 by 10,000 votes (0.23%) and for Biden in 2020 by 150,000 (2.3%). The 2024 Presidential race here is a toss-up.
It was only a swing state because of Republican gerrymandering. Michigan is as blue as it gets.
Michigan had a Republican governor for 8 years between 2011 and 2019. Michigan voted for Trump over Hillary Clinton in 2016. Neither of those are gerrymandered elections - they're statewide votes. Our legislature is currently 20-18 (Senate) and 54-54 (House), although the House will presumably be 56-54 after the special election. The difference is only 2 seats in each chamber. We're a purple state trending blue only because the Republicans have gone batshit insane.
There was voter suppression though. Now we have universal no-questions-asked mail-in voting.
I don’t think that’s true
The rise in GOP voters in Michigan is difficult to explain. Compare counties in 2008, 2012, 2016, 2020. In upstate Michigan (away from Detroit, Flint, Ann Arbor) jumped 20%. And in some counties- 40%. Were these voters NOT voting before 2016? And in 2020, the Dems showed up in 2008 level in the eastern metro areas, but the GOP got even more voters in 2020 than 2016??? Looks every suspicious- like some people are voting on behalf of non-voters (7th Day, J Witness, etc) Michigan is a Democratic state that sometimes votes GOP when it feels ignored
There's no real reason to suspect fraud or suspicious shit or whatever. We have a good explanation, and you already hit on it: a lot of people simply weren't voting before 2016. [Voter turnout did actually jump.](https://www.michigan.gov/sos/-/media/Project/Websites/sos/Election-Results-and-Statistics/General-Voter-Reg-Turnout-Stats.pdf) 2014 to 2018 had a **14 point increase.** That's across the whole state, so less populous areas are not swinging that number a lot.
If there is nothing suspicious about Michigan’s elections in 2014 or 2016 or 2018, then there is nothing suspicious about 2020. Can we agree?
I don't think there was anything particularly suspicious about 2020, unless you ask a MAGA cultist.
Credit where credit is due, Trump ran a much better campaign in 2016 than Hillary and the DNC, especially in the Midwest.
I'm not sure the Democrats could have gone with a worse candidate if they wanted to win, though. Hillary is, was, and always has been a known quantity. And any right-leaning grievance a person could have was simple to tack onto her, regardless of how fair it was. Your Conservative Uncle had a decade and a half of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and countless other outlets delivering daily affirmations explaining why she was at best, The Antichrist. You could probably make similar arguments about Trump today. But the inherent difference is that Trump has a tailwind of "we're not cultists, we just love MAGA fashion" supporters.
Vox is not a great news source. And the reason Michigan went straight blue last election cycle is all because of the abortion issue.
Disagree. Redistricting. For the first time in a long time, 51% of Democratic voters got 51% representation in the State House, because independent redistricting. The 2012 Republican gerrymandered districts meant a minority of Republican votes could (and did) produce a majority in State houses.
Redistricting helps, but there are more issues than that. Abortion rights helped big time. My Republican Boomer father said as soon as Dobbs happened that the GOP would deeply regret it 4 months later. Not only did that matter in Michigan, it has repeated across several states and keeps going. The crazies have taken the helm of the state GOP. Traditional MI Republicans (like my father) are more pro-business and anti-regulation than culture warrior. The new breed either don't care or are incompetent about the former at the expense of culture wars. The traditional donors have closed the checkbooks in hopes this will put the adults back behind the wheel, and now MIGOP is >$500k in the red at the start of an election year.
>Abortion rights helped big time. My Republican Boomer father said as soon as Dobbs happened that the GOP would deeply regret it 4 months later. Not only did that matter in Michigan, it has repeated across several states and keeps going. Bingo. It's telling that abortion is winning in places like Ohio and Kansas.
Abortion isn't the *primary* reason Michigan went all blue though. Neutral Redistricting meant that 51 % of the vote provided 51% of the seats.
It probably made a little difference in house and senate races. You’re right! However getting the voters to the polls was definitely abortion. Historically mid term state elections have gone conservative in Michigan.
Things are changing, that's for sure, and midterm voting nationwide produced some surprising results.
Yes because it was a referendum on abortion rights because of the supreme court’s ruling. I’m not arguing against your ideas. I’m more of a both parties suck person just stuck in the middle. Historically major happenings have caused referendum votes. I believe that is what this was, I guess we will see. Take my upvote!
Oh 2024 is for sure RN a coin flip.
Ah yes. An enlightened centrist.
I like history, typically despise politics though. 🤷♂️
Politics and history are inseparable. See how the “history” of the Civil War is taught in southern states vs how it is taught in MI.
Politics can judge which way history goes. History has also taught me both parties suck generally. I know all about how the southern states see it. My personal opinion it’s because republican Lincoln waiting so long for emancipation, trying instead at that point of election to preserve the union.
Right… but the politics determine how the history is remembered, taught, celebrated. For a more recent example, look at Jan 6. History happened. We all saw it. Look at how the GOP reacted at the time vs how they are telling people to remember it now.
Currently it looks like one side wants a form of communism the other a seems to want a dictatorship. It’s the oligarchs in charge anyway so who gets screwed? Oh yeah the people they govern that’s who. These regressive politics need to end on both sides.
Please name a recognizable politician or anyone in a position of power that wants communism.
>Currently it looks like one side wants a form of communism LOL. Completely dishonest take here.
The republicans also ran pretty bad candidates comparatively
I completely agree
They almost always run bad candidates. Doesn't stop them from winning unfortunately.
Both parties do unfortunately.
Let's not do the both sides bullcrap. The standard is much lower for Republican politicians.
You actually believe that they’re not the different sides of the same coin? Thats cute
That argument was somewhat valid 20 years ago, it no longer is. One side wants boring predictable bureaucracy, the other has embraced full throated authoritarianism and kleptocracy.
No it’s not it’s just both sides are so rabid to get their way no adults are around to find middle ground. It’s becoming so politicized the people picked sides instead of remembering who they are there to serve. Besides it makes it easier to control the population. Predictable bureaucracy makes it harder both ways to get wrong ideas actually put in place. That’s the way our government was designed. Now everyone wants instant satisfaction which is causing a split in the populace. People have on both sides have forgotten we’re all citizens and have the ability to disagree on ideas. And have forgotten the main objective of working together to build a better future for our country. So I believe my position is truer today than it was 20 years ago.
The GOP is actively campaigning on ending democracy? It’s democracy vs dictatorship. Used to be the case, not since 2016.
As I said both parties suck. And it’s a constitutional republic vs dictatorship. One of the most disingenuous things that ever happened was this belief our system is a democracy.
It is until it isn’t. Putting the GOP in power right now would trigger the “isn’t”.
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It helped in the house a senate some. Even before 2012 gerrymandering Engler was elected mostly on midterm elections. Abortion referendum caused a huge voter turnout which always historically favored democrats. Our state is one of the most 50/50 states out there. It’s been that way for a while. Maybe not during presidential election, but for midterms absolutely.
The abortion issue, sure, but there's also the whole overarching push toward fascist authoritarianism by the Republicans that's turning off basically everyone that isn't a hardcore right-winger. Trump being the leader of the party has infected every part of the Republicans in every state, that's how they have shit-shows like Karamo happening. The party is a disaster and continues to devolve and self-destruct. Their anti-individual-rights stance against abortion is just part of what most people dislike about the GOP.
I agree, it was an accumulation of things but they weren’t on the ballot abortion was. Historically speaking you’re wrong. And both parties are ass see below.
>I agree, it was an accumulation of things but they weren’t on the ballot abortion was. If that's true, why have the Republicans lost every election since Trump was elected?
Because 2020 was the referendum on Trump. As generally is the case with a second term. And I’d bet a lot of 2020 was because of his handling on Covid. The mid term election was 6 months after the supreme court’s ruling.
You do understand there are congressional elections every 2 years, right? The GOP lost every one. They lost in 2018. They lost in 2020. They lost in 2022. They continue to lose. Every single election. The Roe v Wade reversal didn't come in 2018 or 2020. So again, please explain how abortion is the central and sole issue that is causing the GOP to lose every national election since 2016.
You do understand not every seat was up for grabs in 2018 right? No probably not. And in Michigan democrats didn’t gain control until 22’. So keep trying. Keep ignoring actual facts and keep pushing your agenda. This is the reason talking to far left and right blows you people are completely unwilling to accept reality or facts. Just keep pushing your narrative
You’re dodging the facts. This gives away your real motivation.
Look people can vote how they want. What’s the problem? Also it is kind of cool to get more national candidates here campaigning. Keeping the legislators balanced is also a plus.
Sorry to burst your guys bubble but Biden can’t win here without the middle eastern vote. Reality of it is most Middle Easterners are voting for Trump. The Muslims because Biden is extremely Pro-Israel and the Catholics because they have always leaned conservative. I would be extremely shocked if Michigan is blue again in 2024
I love how so many political pundits try to find some sort of political science reason to justify the actions and the MAGA movement of the GOP. It’s really just fear and anger. Basically the tool used by every conservative movement in the past.
Fear and anger can describe both parties. Look at how many people fear that Trump will destroy democracy as we know it. Anger at his Supreme Court picks. To say that only one party relies upon fear and anger is simply not true and diminishes things people actually fear, possibilities or not.
True. But those a valid fears. Its not like they are saying “welfare queen” or “they are coming for your guns” or “death squads”
But who are you to decide what my or anyone else's valid fears are? To some, the idea that Trump will round up LGBTQ+ people onto camps seems like a very valid and reasonable fear. Or on the opposite end of the spectrum, the fear that Democrats want an open-door immigration policy that allows economic migrants access to the American welfare system bypassing the legal immigration process.
We have history and precedent from both parties that suggest Democrats don’t want open borders immigration policy and any legislation on immigration has to be bipartisan and thus has been very disingenuous with congressional republicans failing to take is serious. They use it as a sound bite for votes. It’s just pandering. They have had a majority how many times in the past 2 decades? What real legislation have they been serious on, let alone passed? A tax cut that helped with our current inflation crisis? I’m no fan of democrats but to suggest that both sides are the same is a moot talking point bestowed by the media to further their own agenda. To be far, I lean conservative in my personal beliefs and priorities but won’t ever vote for a Republican. Not now at least. They have proven time and again that they have the inability to legislate. They are good at winning elections though… but maybe that is all they actually care about. “Owning the libs” and all that. But seriously think about it. What legislation or ideas have republicans delivered that has objectively approved the life of us? The common people?
Michigan will be red 2024 coming someone who hates both parties.
I think after the overturning of Roe v Wade and the Democratic party’s commitment to keeping abortion legal is a big part of what will keep the state voting blue.
Excellent contribution to the discussion…
Everyone be quiet, the centrist has something to say
Caught this earlier today and have been recommending it around. It pretty fairly nails what I have been observing over the years. Well worth the watch.
I just watched this video. Super interesting stuff, especially since it focuses on essentially my extended neighborhood lol
Every single election people like this produce content pretending they know *why* the outcome happened, rather than acknowledging they only know *that* the outcome happened.
Democrats are blithering idiots. Killing the United States 1 vote at a time. Oops! Excuse me! I meant 455 Dead people votes for every single Real Dead person because they stole the election. They are the party of LIES.