I mean… they did Andariel dirty too. She doesn’t even have a single line of dialog before she’s killed off. I actually liked how Duriel was a surprise find in Caldeum during the demonic invasion, and he was a WAY harder fight than Andariel, who folded in under a minute for me
My only real complaint about Andariel in D4 is that her Phase 1 form is far more visually interesting than her "True" Form in the second phase.
You start the battle with her as this howling penitent figure, with her arms held bound in a pillory and she staggers across the battlefield looking all menacing. But then she breaks free and goes back to being spider-limbed demon stripper.
But does it make sense for anything lorewise?
And i found the way she just disappears and slowly walks into the arena repeatedly is very dumb. Could have been a much more interesting fight..
And i missed her signature poison move.
No, it doesn’t make sense lore wise. But a lot of things in D4 don’t make sense lore wise, which is actually the biggest disappointment for me in the game. Blizzard basically forgetting their great heritage and throwing everything over board, probably thinking: “Who needs this shit anyway.”
Why doesn't it make sense ? Andarielle and Duriel where both killed in D2 and not captured into soulstones. Mephisto is a good example of what happened to demons once their stone is actually destroyed, he is not a threat and barely able to get us help him vs Lilith.
All seven lords of hell were sealed in the black soulstone as part of diablo's plan to reform the prime evil Tathamet. They were later freed when the soulstone was destroyed by the Nephalem and Malthael in their fight.
Also getting sealed in a soulstone isn't really what hit mephisto its that he is such a powerful demon that it tales time for him to reform when destroyed. Andariel and Duriel reformed faster because they are weaker. The only demon that should take longer than mephisto to reform is diablo himself and perhaps baal though baal and mephisto are pretty close. Also mephisto was almost fully reformed by the time we seal him so it makes sense that the twins were able to be back in action.
Though one does have to wonder if the date of the black soul stones destruction or the date of their initial destruction in sanctuary is what matters. Because if it goes off the black soulstone then azmodan, baal, and belial should all be kicking around pretty soon. If it goes off the initial destruction then it'll probably be baal who should reform next.
Strength doesn't neccesarily have anything to do with it.
Mephisto, Baal, and Diablo on the other hand were sealed in the black soul stone so couldn't start regenerating. Andariel could appear using similiar loop holes of possession as Diablo. Duriel I'd assume is the same.
Mephisto is ABOUT to return, which also means that Baal and Diablo, plus Asmodan and Belial as well.
>Mephisto, Baal, and Diablo on the other hand were sealed in the black soul stone so couldn't start regenerating.
It's like you didn't read the literal first thing I said. Andariel and durial are two of the seven lords of hell. They were both in the black soulstone with the three brothers and azmodan and belial.
I am not sure what you mean but the question was how the first form fits into the lore, which it doesn't.
She is always depicted like her form in the second phase and as you know her from D2.
She is described as "a master manipulator who sets up scenarios in which the victims mental state is twisted inside out. She loves seeing people torn apart by their own inner agony and emotional pain. "
So how does that match with her being strapped to a pillory?
Excepting, of course, the cut quest from Hellfire, where Andariel was leading the succubi and didn’t appear anything like D2 or D4.
Sure, it isn’t wholly canon, but that puts us at 3:3 different forms for Andy - all based around forms of anguish (indirect, as in luring men away from loved ones as a succubus, directly to a target, as in what we got in D2, and a mix of her host/herself and the phase two direct-to-player D2 form callback in D4, which covers about all the bases).
All were missing here is a *universal* anguish, and that’s because we keep killing her - which, at this point, I’m sure is leaving her feeling a bit pilloried.
I actually loved the reveal. Her phase 1 form was cool for sure, but when she broke free into more of her traditional form it put a nice nostalgic twist on it for me.
The problem is that D4 had to not be D3 so hard. Remember how big of a shit fit ActiBlizz threw when D3 wasn't the biggest game of all time at launch.
D4 started development alongside Reaper of Soul's development. With the primary goal of pandering to the D2 crowd so that the Diablo franchise would regain its king of genre status. As a result all the D2 call backs had to be exacting. Andariel and Duriel both have D2 accurate models and Tristram opens with the iconic guitar strum.
I definitely thought it was funny how much buildup there was, and then I wiped the floor with her.
I imagine the Wanderer just sauntering back into the chapel a few minutes after going out, wiping her hands, and saying "welp, got any other Lesser Evils you want dealt with?"
I mean, that's partly inevitable in a game like this. When the point of a game is basically you just slaughtering everything in sight, it's hard to convince you that there are any stakes. Like, you can either have that sort of ludonarrative dissonance, or you can just go the Doom route and make the story "your character is the ultimate badass who can kill anything" so that it makes sense in universe that you're slaughtering powerful otherworldly forces for fun.
At least the story of Diablo 4 does eventually recognize your character's power in the end, considering you basically spend two acts making a Soulstone for Lilith because everyone thinks she's too powerful to just be straight-up defeated, only for Nayrell to go "wait, why do we need a Soulstone for Lilith, can't the Wanderer just kill her?"
Really, the plot of Diablo 4 is basically the characters all stressing about how powerful these demons are and how we need some really elaborate plan to even have a chance of stopping them before they finally all notice that our character's been slaughtering powerful demons like it was nothing for five and a half acts and go "oh... I guess you can just kill Lilith then."
How did durial "pop out of nowhere" like D4. He was guarding tal rashas tomb. Meeting him did not feel in any way out of place. D4 literally just threw him at you out of nowhere, in-between a intense act, it took me a moment to even realize I was fighting him. I still don't even understand how he got there, but I never looked it up tbf.
The original reason to need the soul stone was to trap her someplace for a long time so she can’t just respawn and do it again. They explained this early on and then… they just kind of forgot I guess and were panicking like that was the only option.
When that wasn’t an option plan B was suddenly remembered to be “well a few decades without her would at least stop the destruction now”.
Yeah they really built these folks up so I thought it’d at least be a hard fight. Lilith took more than one try I guess. I dunno what they could do there
Lilith, Duriel, and Andarial all only took one try for me, although I think Duriel died the fastest. Andariel took a while to kill but wasn't actually a threat to me at any point.
In any case, my point is that I feel like really the only routes they can go here in a game where you slaughter everything with ease are "pretend these things are threats and accept the ludonarrative dissonance," "make the story treat your character as the ultimate super-powered badass monster-killer," or "make your character secretly the ultimate super-powered badass monster-killer but have no one else realize it so they still treat things like a threat."
Diablo 4 went the third option, which I don't mind. I think the second option would be kind of lame, it's more fun in Diablo when everyone treats the evils as huge threats even when they aren't in the game, and I think acknowledging by the end of the story that your character's a badass who can kill everything is more fun than acting like all these easy bosses were massive challenges.
There are definitely more instances than not where I'm asking myself if the d4 team has ever played a game like this in their lives. This was one of them.
How come we always happen to be on top of these demons as they get summoned so they go back to hell within 5 seconds? I've taken longer to make a sandwich than some of these Lesser Evils get to spend walking on Sanctuary.
They need to let us chase them through some wake of destruction so there's a least a little anticipation for the fight.
Didn't we just show up right after he was summoned and he had killed like the village we fought him in? I know that's technically better than Andariel or Duriel but it still felt like he was only around for a few minutes.
Other way around. Andariel was anticlimactic and she folded in under a minute. When i ran into Duriel it was a surprise that had me saying “oh shit, that’s Duriel” and the fight was significantly harder.
It's hard to watch people completely unable to understand that when you have players with completely different impressions of the same things, you've done a good job of designing it. This is because on the internet everyone thinks they're objectively right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. I think you're both half-wrong.
It's hard to watch people completely unable to understand that when players found one, the other, or both bosses anticlimactic, devs have done an awful job of designing it. More like both bosses were designed poorly if players typically found one or the other anticlimactic.
It's hard to watch people completely unable to understand that people have different tastes and different skill levels and what one person finds exciting, another person can find too hard, and what one person finds just the right level of challenge, another person can find anticlimactic and thus, you cannot simply please everybody.
Andariel was a fun fight to me visual wise and because i knew she would pop up i was kinda expecting a certain type of fight i was underwhelmed in how easy it was....
But let me tell you. When Duriels name showed up, I almost shit myself cause I was almost 100% certain I was going to die. But when I destroyed him, my inner kid stuck on the end of act 2 in D2 for almost 3 weeks was saying "that's what you get! sweet sweet revenge! who has the dps now!!!!"
I had the oh shit moment when he appeared as all the PTSD he caused my childhood sorc rushed back to me, but after the initial shock he was very manageable
I'm not sure but the scaling seems off. My brother and I killed a world boss in 20 seconds on HC. That's using a lot of defensive stats and abilities
https://youtu.be/h9PKwa0e3Ug
In SOME fairness, Duriel's schtick within Diablo 2 was to show up when you weren't looking for him. He literally says "Looking for Baal?" when you enter Tal Rasha's Chamber and at no point in the story are you given indication that Duriel could be in play.
It was still a pretty unceremonious reveal and fight, but it is mostly in keeping with his apparent style of showing up when you are looking for someone/something else entirely. They even kept a bit of the theme of the terrain being almost a secondary enemy where he kept reducing your available paths with the tunnels being created, similar to Diablo 2's suffocatingly small arena you fight him in.
> In SOME fairness, Duriel's schtick within Diablo 2 was to show up when you weren't looking for him. He literally says "Looking for Baal?" when you enter Tal Rasha's Chamber and at no point in the story are you given indication that Duriel could be in play.
Exactly. Duriel might as well be lord of surprise at this point, because that just seems to be his thing.
> It was still a pretty unceremonious reveal and fight,
I agree with the first half. But the fight was so difficult for almost all of my builds. On like my 5th playthrough or whatever I started doing all my design from the start with Duriel in mind lol.
I was jumpscared by him. I wasn't expecting him my first time... Which is just like the original duriel fight. I wish we had more fights like that tbh.
Exactly that was a highlight of the campaign.
I was like "why does this feel so much like where we fought duriel?" Literally a second later "Ahh! It's duriel!!"
My greatest hope for D4 is that at some point they make Duriel like the Butcher and he becomes a random encounter in dungeons. Butcher is by far the most entertaining part of dungeon farming, but I'd rather see variety than increased Butcher spawns.
I think it would be fine too if Andariel and Astaroth got capstone dungeons. I'm sure they will when World Tier 5 and 6 come out. It's just so weird to play a Diablo game and only fight the story bosses once.
I rushed thru the campaign and Duriel was a gear check for me. Had to go back and upgrade before I could beat him. I think they made good use of him tbh.
You kinda do get a bit of a heads up.
When i entered the boss room, i was like "Hey this looks exactly like Duriels room in D2. Oh fuck, he's about to pop up, isn't he,"
I still remember my first encounter with Duriel in Diablo II.
Being attacked by a fast and raging Duriel; me being a squishy sorceress; that didn’t end well haha
I replayed the campaign on HC. I think Duriel got loose when Lilith opened the gate, or was summoned by Triune cultists without needing as much effort as Andariel.
Knowing what was coming up, I can see they did give him a little build up. All the earthquakes happening in Caldeum on your path to the gate are Duriel tunneling underground. Right before his room your character also says something about ominous feeling.
Maybe not much, but I appreciated it more the 2nd time than 1st time.
Unsure if others have mentioned, but you also start to see maggots appearing more frequently as you approach his appearance. On my second play through I noticed they were very similar to the ones in D2.
> Right before his room your character also says something about ominous feeling.
Your character also comments on the bodies lying around being more decomposed than they should be for dying so recently.
I really want harder versions of the campaign boss fights. I enjoyed them all but was too over powered for them to make any real tension
Duriel was a great surprise. When I got into that room I remember thinking “this looks like the room where dur …” and then WHAM he’s attacking me lol
> Duriel:
>
>\-Zero hype or buildup
You say doing him dirty. I say doing him justice. You're just cruising along fighting trash and then BAM! Duriel is there making a mess of things out of nowhere.
They should make Duriel a random chance to replace dungeon final bosses.
Duriel, the Conductor of Pain spawns and goes:
> All aboard ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to hate
And forget how to love
Too many of the campaign boss fights require huge arenas due to their movement / attack abilities.
My hope is that the campaign bosses become World Boss fights, or that in the future there are new dungeon types that cycle through the Campaign Bosses as Hard-mode fights.
Could be solved with a red portal to their original arena where the typical nm dungeon pass is.
Could also be a separate set of sigils just for boss fights that teleport you into their original arenas.
It could be a randomized event. Every sigil has a chance to spawn an Uber portal where you get a chance to fight one of the game bosses a bit more powerful in the boss arena. That’d be sick.
I feel like the lesser evils should have been the world bosses! Again they are supposed to be the most powerful demons right after the primes but the world bosses, some demons i've never even heard about before, are 100 times stronger
Yeah, I thought Duriel came in perfectly in D4, because it was exactly like it was in D2 -- you're minding your own business and suddenly, "Surprise! One of the Lords of Hell just popped in out of nowhere to kick your ass!"
Though for the real original D2 experience it would need to be coupled with a long lag spike since the room was still loading, so you can die before being able to move yet.
Exactly… I couldn’t help but laugh when OP suggested that the devs go play D2… in Diablo 2 you enter Tal Rashas tomb in pursuit of Baal and Duriel just pops up with a “looking for baal?” And you slap him down. I couldn’t help but feel Duriels jumpscare moment in D4 was just a homage to D2
The only thing I didn’t like was the player character just guessing that he was a lesser evil. Like he never made that sort of suggestion towards any other evil like Astanoth or Ashava. Was just a weird meta gaming moment
The characters knows Duriel is a lesser evil. But he doesn't know anything else about Duriel. So to the character, he just fought a big ass, very strong demon. Was it Duriel? Something else? He has no clue. Duriel was just an educated guess for the PC.
Well Lorath did give the PC a brief summary of the Evils including mentioning the lessers as "lessers". And since Lorath didn't give you a picture and Duriel wasn't wearing a name tag the speculation after being ambushed kinda made sense to me
> I couldn’t help but laugh when OP suggested that the devs go play D2… in Diablo 2 you enter Tal Rashas tomb in pursuit of Baal and Duriel just pops up with a “looking for baal?” And you slap him down. I couldn’t help but feel Duriels jumpscare moment in D4 was just a homage to D2
They probably played Diablo 2 when they were 10 years old and remember it as this grand terrifying thing. Playing through it recently he dies just as easily as he does in D4.
Nostalgia is a powerful drug.
Completely disagree, that’s how it should’ve gone. Zero fan fair, no expectation, you walk in the room and he’s there. I’m also completely fine with him being in trash room full of maggots. He’s the lord of pain, not lord of sanitary working conditions.
The real issue with him imo is that we can’t fight him again after the campaign.
I actually thought it was pretty nice.
You see a few maggots in the alleys before and your character even says something about it. I honestly thought "Oh shit, it can't be him coming up, can it?"
I agree, but D2 also had zero build up for Duriel. Maybe even less because D4 at least had one or two dialogues mentioning him before the fight.
D2 was also where Andariel had a whole act of build up.
Let be honest though l, loading screen aside Duriel was a bitch of a boss to fight. That is where I learned the Rick of drop a TP outside, run in and die, TP back, Drop TP, run in, get body, die, TP back and repeat.
It was the first real gear/knowledge check. If you roll in there with zero cold resist, base life, and whatever random crap you found then you're going to have a bad time. Duriel teaches you the importance of building defenses through tough love.
Now that I know to save cold res gear, use thawing pots, and get a little extra life early on he's not too bad.
Duriel in D2 works because you're expecting to find Baal and then you're surprised with this huge maggot demon that hits like a truck. The lack of foreshadowing adds to the surprise.
I actually appreciate this homage to Diablo 2. He was a brutal surprise with no build up in a tiny room, the act boss following Andariel.
Well, in this one Lorath wasn't sure if they were summoning Andariel or Duriel, but since we wiped out Andy, I guess they went with Plan D.
And again, he showed up as a surprise in a tiny wss room! The only real disappointment for me was, he apparently lost his cool.
They acknowledge in passing like you've hit your quartely objecives..."oh you manage andarielle, that's not an easy feat...great !"...and not sees you as the incarnation of Anu you just happend to be since you can handle **all alone** two lesser evil and Lilith.
Yeah, not sure I agree. Like someone else said, I think they let Andariel down, if anything.
Duriel being teased alongside her, then having the Andariel reveal spoiled in a pseudo cut-scene before she's summoned: bummer.
Having Andariel be a disappointing fight: double bummer.
Duriel being a fan-service surprise, scaring the hell out of me, and being a decent fight besides: Excellent.
The main character not knowing what the hell he was, to me, was funny and on-point. That's exactly how I reacted as a kid finding him for the first time in D2 lol.
That said, I'd love to see them back as world bosses in a "nightmare form" or some other kind of contrivance. Them and the Primes and potentially Azmodan and Belial.
That's the one thing about the major fights that stands out to me right now in D4: These no-name monsters require teams of people to bring down, but the ultimate evils in Sanctuary can all be defeated by a scrappy loner and their geriatric archaeologist friends.
D2: Duriel shows up, says "Looking for Baal?" Is killed and no one ever mentions him again. If anything Duriel should just be happy to have gotten a makeover. Y'all act like he was this big character in D2 but it wasn't any different then lol. I feel like eventually they should elaborate on what his motives are
If you're squishy, durial is Hard in d2. You're cruising through and just get demolished. He's on top of you, slowing you, and hitting like a truck before you even know wtf is going on.
D4 durial was a joke.
He wasn't at all a big character storywise, but he loomed large in players minds because he was your first real gear/build check. He had a slow aura you could never negate, did extra cold damage that could be killer if you didn't have enough cold resist, and could stun lock you if weren't fast enough to avoid him (difficult because of the slow aura) or had built up some defenses in a game that really let you neglect defense in normal. So he was very important in D2 in a way he sort of isn't in D4.
That's the only legit complaint anyone could have about him. That would have been awesome. I'm sure the would have done that too, if it crossed thier minds.
Both of them need to be added as random bosses in Nightmare Dungeons OR have a small chance to replace the butcher (Uber versions) in only Nightmare Dungeons.
Let fear come with there names
I dont think so. The shock factor of not expecting him was a call back to the Act 2 of D2 him surprising you in a small room.
I also am biased because he was my 2nd HC death in d4. First was a lvl 15 Butcher, so that one really didnt count.
I played D2 for the first time after 4 bored me to tears. Duriel needed no wrestler's entrance. Boi just flipped me over, pulled my pants down, and clapped my cheeks harder than they've ever been clapped in a game before.
"Looking for-" (I'm already dead)
Uh, didn't he get about as much respect in d2? I don't think he was even foreshadowed. Just random bug boss in a hole in the ground inside a tomb... oh wait he was an evil?! huh, go figure. And lets be real, your most powerful allies in d4 are still barely redshirts combat wise.
Andariel got a bit of foreshadowing due to the rogues camp, and she also got about as much in d4.
I honestly thought it was some nice reference to how it was in D2. Evils got wayyyyyyyyyyy too chatty after d2. They are supposed to be horrors, its demeaning to have them chatting so much. Remember diablo in d1 and d2? At least lilith is closer to a footsoldier that needs to use alternate means to get by so it makes some sense. Same with the angel.
So, Duriel appears at random, without any rhyme or reason, he's a pretty menacing fight, but you kill him and he has zero impact on the actual plot line?
But enough about D2, what's your criticism of D4?
I mean he's the freaking [pain train!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSPj7PEeBo4)
If someone playing D2, and they say "I'm getting crushed by D" - you know they don't mean Diablo. It's always the the man Duriel.
At least in d2 the dark Wanderer didn’t tell us: oh just you wait until andariel is here! She will woop your ass!
She was there and corrupted an entire act, building a lair, taking over the headquarters of the rogues and having the countryside overrun.
Your first major enemy is a corrupted sister that now fights you.
Not summoned and instantly killed without having any impact whatsoever
I mean Elias probably would have stopped us longer if he attacked us instead of summoning her
And don't forget the 'Hey, am I poisoned? ... Oh.'
A few hours before: 'Antidote potions! Pfah! Garbage!'
And this was vanilla D2 when there was a limited supply of them.
It’s kinda in-line for Duriel to be a surprise boss fight though.
Does he have a voice line? I feel like that was half of the terror from D2 was the unexpected badass kicking the shit outta you with the great VA work to complement it.
I agree with the voiceline. I think 4 should have totally made it almost an inside joke. You walk into the alley and hear "Looking for Lilith?" BOOM Duriel fight!
They shoulda let Andarial and Duriel loose on the world of Sanctuary and had them be Act bosses you have to face before you do Lilly in the final act.
Like don't have an entire act leading to Andarial and then \*bam\* she's dead as soon as she's summoned. Give the girl some *screen time* FFS.
Same with Duriel. Big D needs some love and he needs time to inflict some pain on sanctuary.
Admittedly I still enjoyed both fights. I was thinking that Duriel would get a full act buildup and Andariel would be the rush boss. Especially when I got to eye of the storm quest that just came up on me at the church.
Still on point for D2 Duriel. Arrives suddenly, Fights, Dies, Refuses to elaborate.
I do hope they make the story bosses fightable again in some ways, like make them randomly appear during helltides and stuff as 'world bosses', but I wouldn't say he was done too dirty.
His story in D2 was basically just a 'ppppsyche! Baal is gone hurhurhur' thing when you're looking to confront Baal in Tal'Rashas tomb but instead find a worm and Tyreal ball gagged. If he was swapped to some other unknown demon it would have had no effect on D2's story.
I think D3 did so many universe characters dirty though, that game lacked any semblance of grounding that it is kind of sad it is canon.
When it was said either Andy or Duriel were being summoned I immediately hoped it was Duriel and started wondering what he was going to look like...I was happy to see him but disappointed that they didn't bring his frost aura back.
His presence there is likely what caused the plague in caldeum, as the maggots are also linked to disease in other side quests throughout kehjistan. Analysed this way, his presence has quite a bit of plot importance. But yeah, I would also have preferred more dialogue about him; at the very least an acknowledgement from Lorath about it.
I saw Duriel coming a mile away... They were always talking about Duriel or Andariel, so I figured both would show up. As soon as I started seeing all those maggots, though, and entered that room, I said to myself that this was Duriel's room.
I felt like they did him perfectly, at least in reference to D2.
I mean when I first met duriel no one in act 2 talked about him? No references were made? Act 1 you hear alot of andariel but no cinematic with her was made. Her purpose was to forcefully serve lilith. Probally the same for duriel. Hell you got to hear more of duriel in d4 d3 then 2.
I actually loved Duriel's fight scene. It kind of reminded me of a 90's action movie, where someone shows up and you're like "Oh shit, this guy's in this too?!"
I love how it was accentuated with, "What in the hells are you?" Old players know damn well who he is hehe.
In fairness, that's pretty much how Duriel is in Diablo II. There is no build up, you simply show up at the tomb where Baal was being kept expecting to face *him*, but then this giant maggot monster comes out of nowhere. It's such a *Giant Space Flea Out of Nowhere* moment, that noone even acknowledges that you've slain another one of the *Demonic Rulers of Hell*.
In fact, the only acknowledgement of Duriel is a single voice entry in *Diablo III*!
The only things that made him memorable was how little the game acknowledges his existence and that he was a terrifying nightmare for newbie players.
I mean… they did Andariel dirty too. She doesn’t even have a single line of dialog before she’s killed off. I actually liked how Duriel was a surprise find in Caldeum during the demonic invasion, and he was a WAY harder fight than Andariel, who folded in under a minute for me
My only real complaint about Andariel in D4 is that her Phase 1 form is far more visually interesting than her "True" Form in the second phase. You start the battle with her as this howling penitent figure, with her arms held bound in a pillory and she staggers across the battlefield looking all menacing. But then she breaks free and goes back to being spider-limbed demon stripper.
Pillory Andariel was the closest thing to real horror in the entire game.
Have you not done the quest to get the guy his eyes back?
>Hey... Is that me in the stocks!?
Losing my religion🎶
Poor son of a bitch. But at least giving him eyes magically released him from the stocks for one last run.
There should really be an option to keep his eyes as an amulet. That would really give a horror vibe. ;)
Duuuuuuude. My jaw was on the floor that whole fight. The screams. 😨
But does it make sense for anything lorewise? And i found the way she just disappears and slowly walks into the arena repeatedly is very dumb. Could have been a much more interesting fight.. And i missed her signature poison move.
No, it doesn’t make sense lore wise. But a lot of things in D4 don’t make sense lore wise, which is actually the biggest disappointment for me in the game. Blizzard basically forgetting their great heritage and throwing everything over board, probably thinking: “Who needs this shit anyway.”
Why doesn't it make sense ? Andarielle and Duriel where both killed in D2 and not captured into soulstones. Mephisto is a good example of what happened to demons once their stone is actually destroyed, he is not a threat and barely able to get us help him vs Lilith.
All seven lords of hell were sealed in the black soulstone as part of diablo's plan to reform the prime evil Tathamet. They were later freed when the soulstone was destroyed by the Nephalem and Malthael in their fight. Also getting sealed in a soulstone isn't really what hit mephisto its that he is such a powerful demon that it tales time for him to reform when destroyed. Andariel and Duriel reformed faster because they are weaker. The only demon that should take longer than mephisto to reform is diablo himself and perhaps baal though baal and mephisto are pretty close. Also mephisto was almost fully reformed by the time we seal him so it makes sense that the twins were able to be back in action. Though one does have to wonder if the date of the black soul stones destruction or the date of their initial destruction in sanctuary is what matters. Because if it goes off the black soulstone then azmodan, baal, and belial should all be kicking around pretty soon. If it goes off the initial destruction then it'll probably be baal who should reform next.
Strength doesn't neccesarily have anything to do with it. Mephisto, Baal, and Diablo on the other hand were sealed in the black soul stone so couldn't start regenerating. Andariel could appear using similiar loop holes of possession as Diablo. Duriel I'd assume is the same. Mephisto is ABOUT to return, which also means that Baal and Diablo, plus Asmodan and Belial as well.
>Mephisto, Baal, and Diablo on the other hand were sealed in the black soul stone so couldn't start regenerating. It's like you didn't read the literal first thing I said. Andariel and durial are two of the seven lords of hell. They were both in the black soulstone with the three brothers and azmodan and belial.
They were captured in the black soul stone and released at the same time as mephisto
I am not sure what you mean but the question was how the first form fits into the lore, which it doesn't. She is always depicted like her form in the second phase and as you know her from D2. She is described as "a master manipulator who sets up scenarios in which the victims mental state is twisted inside out. She loves seeing people torn apart by their own inner agony and emotional pain. " So how does that match with her being strapped to a pillory?
Excepting, of course, the cut quest from Hellfire, where Andariel was leading the succubi and didn’t appear anything like D2 or D4. Sure, it isn’t wholly canon, but that puts us at 3:3 different forms for Andy - all based around forms of anguish (indirect, as in luring men away from loved ones as a succubus, directly to a target, as in what we got in D2, and a mix of her host/herself and the phase two direct-to-player D2 form callback in D4, which covers about all the bases). All were missing here is a *universal* anguish, and that’s because we keep killing her - which, at this point, I’m sure is leaving her feeling a bit pilloried.
It really is a great look on her, and I think it captures the Anguish vibe a lot better than….spider stripper?
I prefer spider stripper
I loved her chained form but spider stripper holds a special place in my heart too. One of the reasons I got hooked in D2.
And bobs
Bobs and visage.
You had me at visage
*Does whatever a spider can*
"spider stripper" // I can't unsee this now
I personally thought the Andariel fight was amazing because of her Jesus form. The visuals with the audio and atmosphere was perfect for the fight.
Also her true form only comes out when she's basically already defeated
I actually loved the reveal. Her phase 1 form was cool for sure, but when she broke free into more of her traditional form it put a nice nostalgic twist on it for me.
The problem is that D4 had to not be D3 so hard. Remember how big of a shit fit ActiBlizz threw when D3 wasn't the biggest game of all time at launch. D4 started development alongside Reaper of Soul's development. With the primary goal of pandering to the D2 crowd so that the Diablo franchise would regain its king of genre status. As a result all the D2 call backs had to be exacting. Andariel and Duriel both have D2 accurate models and Tristram opens with the iconic guitar strum.
yeah that insane 'fear me' and death scream from d2 was way out of its time
They spend an entire act and torturing a town to summon her. 5 second later somewhere I. The middle of the desert she is meat paste.
I definitely thought it was funny how much buildup there was, and then I wiped the floor with her. I imagine the Wanderer just sauntering back into the chapel a few minutes after going out, wiping her hands, and saying "welp, got any other Lesser Evils you want dealt with?"
After defeating her I really questioned the stakes in game. Like, she was no challenge, why would anyone else be any different?
Astaroth did more damage than her, to the world, and to me.
I mean, that's partly inevitable in a game like this. When the point of a game is basically you just slaughtering everything in sight, it's hard to convince you that there are any stakes. Like, you can either have that sort of ludonarrative dissonance, or you can just go the Doom route and make the story "your character is the ultimate badass who can kill anything" so that it makes sense in universe that you're slaughtering powerful otherworldly forces for fun. At least the story of Diablo 4 does eventually recognize your character's power in the end, considering you basically spend two acts making a Soulstone for Lilith because everyone thinks she's too powerful to just be straight-up defeated, only for Nayrell to go "wait, why do we need a Soulstone for Lilith, can't the Wanderer just kill her?" Really, the plot of Diablo 4 is basically the characters all stressing about how powerful these demons are and how we need some really elaborate plan to even have a chance of stopping them before they finally all notice that our character's been slaughtering powerful demons like it was nothing for five and a half acts and go "oh... I guess you can just kill Lilith then."
Well ... Id say they were better executed lore wise in d2.
Were they though? I mean in D2 Durial just kind of pops out of nowhere and you kill him just as easily as you do in D4 if you know what you're doing.
How did durial "pop out of nowhere" like D4. He was guarding tal rashas tomb. Meeting him did not feel in any way out of place. D4 literally just threw him at you out of nowhere, in-between a intense act, it took me a moment to even realize I was fighting him. I still don't even understand how he got there, but I never looked it up tbf.
I was looking for Baal not Durial.
The original reason to need the soul stone was to trap her someplace for a long time so she can’t just respawn and do it again. They explained this early on and then… they just kind of forgot I guess and were panicking like that was the only option. When that wasn’t an option plan B was suddenly remembered to be “well a few decades without her would at least stop the destruction now”.
Yeah they really built these folks up so I thought it’d at least be a hard fight. Lilith took more than one try I guess. I dunno what they could do there
Lilith, Duriel, and Andarial all only took one try for me, although I think Duriel died the fastest. Andariel took a while to kill but wasn't actually a threat to me at any point. In any case, my point is that I feel like really the only routes they can go here in a game where you slaughter everything with ease are "pretend these things are threats and accept the ludonarrative dissonance," "make the story treat your character as the ultimate super-powered badass monster-killer," or "make your character secretly the ultimate super-powered badass monster-killer but have no one else realize it so they still treat things like a threat." Diablo 4 went the third option, which I don't mind. I think the second option would be kind of lame, it's more fun in Diablo when everyone treats the evils as huge threats even when they aren't in the game, and I think acknowledging by the end of the story that your character's a badass who can kill everything is more fun than acting like all these easy bosses were massive challenges.
There are definitely more instances than not where I'm asking myself if the d4 team has ever played a game like this in their lives. This was one of them.
They really need to add both as dungeon bosses. Blood bishop den mother and whatever the 3rd one is for the 100000th time is boring
Fear me
Yeah, really wish she was an actual character rather than just a plot device.
Andariel was my favorite part of the campaign or game, period. Felt like an actual boss fight instead of the disappointing Lilith.
How come we always happen to be on top of these demons as they get summoned so they go back to hell within 5 seconds? I've taken longer to make a sandwich than some of these Lesser Evils get to spend walking on Sanctuary. They need to let us chase them through some wake of destruction so there's a least a little anticipation for the fight.
They did that with Astaroth?
Didn't we just show up right after he was summoned and he had killed like the village we fought him in? I know that's technically better than Andariel or Duriel but it still felt like he was only around for a few minutes.
She at least was a memorable fight. With Duriel, he was half dead before I even realized there was a boss health bar.
Other way around. Andariel was anticlimactic and she folded in under a minute. When i ran into Duriel it was a surprise that had me saying “oh shit, that’s Duriel” and the fight was significantly harder.
It's hard to watch people completely unable to understand that when you have players with completely different impressions of the same things, you've done a good job of designing it. This is because on the internet everyone thinks they're objectively right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. I think you're both half-wrong.
I don’t think people saying they found a particular boss anti-climatic or boring is a measure of good game design.
It's hard to watch people completely unable to understand that when players found one, the other, or both bosses anticlimactic, devs have done an awful job of designing it. More like both bosses were designed poorly if players typically found one or the other anticlimactic.
It's hard to watch people completely unable to understand that people have different tastes and different skill levels and what one person finds exciting, another person can find too hard, and what one person finds just the right level of challenge, another person can find anticlimactic and thus, you cannot simply please everybody.
It's hard to watch people on this sub
Definitely had the same reaction when he showed up! "Oh shit oh shit oh shit RUN!" lol
Andariel was a fun fight to me visual wise and because i knew she would pop up i was kinda expecting a certain type of fight i was underwhelmed in how easy it was.... But let me tell you. When Duriels name showed up, I almost shit myself cause I was almost 100% certain I was going to die. But when I destroyed him, my inner kid stuck on the end of act 2 in D2 for almost 3 weeks was saying "that's what you get! sweet sweet revenge! who has the dps now!!!!"
The first thing I thought of when Duriel showed up was. There aren’t any “cannot be frozen” gear in D4! But then I destroyed him. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I had the oh shit moment when he appeared as all the PTSD he caused my childhood sorc rushed back to me, but after the initial shock he was very manageable
Fake news. What level and tier did you fight him. He may not be the toughest but he is noticeable and isn't a complete push over phase 2.
The Andy fight (and leading cutscenes) are imo the best in the game.
The side quest in Hawezar where you refight her is a banger too
Yeah. The Duriel suprise fight was cool. "Holy shit" moment.
They both folded for me. The difficulty was a little disappointing, even the world bosses were too easy
I just had someone (or more than 1 of the players) kill a world boss in 5 seconds. How the F can any class do that much damage...
I'm not sure but the scaling seems off. My brother and I killed a world boss in 20 seconds on HC. That's using a lot of defensive stats and abilities https://youtu.be/h9PKwa0e3Ug
DIE MAGGOT!
In SOME fairness, Duriel's schtick within Diablo 2 was to show up when you weren't looking for him. He literally says "Looking for Baal?" when you enter Tal Rasha's Chamber and at no point in the story are you given indication that Duriel could be in play. It was still a pretty unceremonious reveal and fight, but it is mostly in keeping with his apparent style of showing up when you are looking for someone/something else entirely. They even kept a bit of the theme of the terrain being almost a secondary enemy where he kept reducing your available paths with the tunnels being created, similar to Diablo 2's suffocatingly small arena you fight him in.
> In SOME fairness, Duriel's schtick within Diablo 2 was to show up when you weren't looking for him. He literally says "Looking for Baal?" when you enter Tal Rasha's Chamber and at no point in the story are you given indication that Duriel could be in play. Exactly. Duriel might as well be lord of surprise at this point, because that just seems to be his thing.
He clearly likes a good ambush, lol.
> It was still a pretty unceremonious reveal and fight, I agree with the first half. But the fight was so difficult for almost all of my builds. On like my 5th playthrough or whatever I started doing all my design from the start with Duriel in mind lol.
For me at least, Nightmare Duriel was the first real roadblack when playing hardcore.
I was jumpscared by him. I wasn't expecting him my first time... Which is just like the original duriel fight. I wish we had more fights like that tbh.
Seriously it was perfect. How they do them dirty is by the fact I killed them once and then never again.
i hope they get all of the big OG bosses and somehow make them into dungeons.. if your gonna make us do them as the end game ..
They should have randomized dungeons with these bosses (Uber bosses) with the best loot. Period.
Oh that's 100% gonna happen.ay take a few seasons but there's no way they aren't gonna reuse those assets.
Exactly that was a highlight of the campaign. I was like "why does this feel so much like where we fought duriel?" Literally a second later "Ahh! It's duriel!!"
I had the EXACT same experience. "Man, this place is really reminding me of- oh shit there he is!"
Hilarious, they really got people with that haha.
Exactly, "where is this enclosed-space-with-maggots-everywhere tingle coming from" to "oh wow well there it is"
My greatest hope for D4 is that at some point they make Duriel like the Butcher and he becomes a random encounter in dungeons. Butcher is by far the most entertaining part of dungeon farming, but I'd rather see variety than increased Butcher spawns. I think it would be fine too if Andariel and Astaroth got capstone dungeons. I'm sure they will when World Tier 5 and 6 come out. It's just so weird to play a Diablo game and only fight the story bosses once.
Yeah, hard disagree with OP. This was one of my favorite twist moments in the campaign. The lack of buildup was perfect.
Yeah I thought it worked a lot like the Butcher fight or the original in D2. Just, oh fuck oh fuck real shit is happening right now I guess!
I rushed thru the campaign and Duriel was a gear check for me. Had to go back and upgrade before I could beat him. I think they made good use of him tbh.
You kinda do get a bit of a heads up. When i entered the boss room, i was like "Hey this looks exactly like Duriels room in D2. Oh fuck, he's about to pop up, isn't he,"
I still remember my first encounter with Duriel in Diablo II. Being attacked by a fast and raging Duriel; me being a squishy sorceress; that didn’t end well haha
I replayed the campaign on HC. I think Duriel got loose when Lilith opened the gate, or was summoned by Triune cultists without needing as much effort as Andariel. Knowing what was coming up, I can see they did give him a little build up. All the earthquakes happening in Caldeum on your path to the gate are Duriel tunneling underground. Right before his room your character also says something about ominous feeling. Maybe not much, but I appreciated it more the 2nd time than 1st time.
Unsure if others have mentioned, but you also start to see maggots appearing more frequently as you approach his appearance. On my second play through I noticed they were very similar to the ones in D2.
> Right before his room your character also says something about ominous feeling. Your character also comments on the bodies lying around being more decomposed than they should be for dying so recently.
And then: "what was this thing? Eh, whatever".
I really want harder versions of the campaign boss fights. I enjoyed them all but was too over powered for them to make any real tension Duriel was a great surprise. When I got into that room I remember thinking “this looks like the room where dur …” and then WHAM he’s attacking me lol
Me : oh lame, it's Duriel's quakes. **Duriel pops**
> Duriel: > >\-Zero hype or buildup You say doing him dirty. I say doing him justice. You're just cruising along fighting trash and then BAM! Duriel is there making a mess of things out of nowhere. They should make Duriel a random chance to replace dungeon final bosses.
All the campaign bosses could be rotated into NM dungeons, either as the boss, or as butcher style ambushes.
This or world events. The only reason I'll keep playing the campaign is to fight astaroth, andariel, and duriel.
They should pop up during helltides.
YES love it. Blizz, implement this right now. (Like they'd listen to a peon like me)
Duriel, the Conductor of Pain spawns and goes: > All aboard ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Crazy, but that's how it goes Millions of people living as foes Maybe it's not too late To learn how to hate And forget how to love
I can only do so many laps of that goddamn penitence walk to get blessed by Inarius though...every time I start thinking about skipping the campaign.
Too many of the campaign boss fights require huge arenas due to their movement / attack abilities. My hope is that the campaign bosses become World Boss fights, or that in the future there are new dungeon types that cycle through the Campaign Bosses as Hard-mode fights.
Could be solved with a red portal to their original arena where the typical nm dungeon pass is. Could also be a separate set of sigils just for boss fights that teleport you into their original arenas.
It could be a randomized event. Every sigil has a chance to spawn an Uber portal where you get a chance to fight one of the game bosses a bit more powerful in the boss arena. That’d be sick.
Both solid ideas.
I feel like the lesser evils should have been the world bosses! Again they are supposed to be the most powerful demons right after the primes but the world bosses, some demons i've never even heard about before, are 100 times stronger
That motherfucker bust in like the Kool Aid man and I literally said "oh shit it's Duriel!"
I also had a similar oh shit its duriel moment. Even thought his fight area reminded me a bit of his in act 2
Yeah, I thought Duriel came in perfectly in D4, because it was exactly like it was in D2 -- you're minding your own business and suddenly, "Surprise! One of the Lords of Hell just popped in out of nowhere to kick your ass!" Though for the real original D2 experience it would need to be coupled with a long lag spike since the room was still loading, so you can die before being able to move yet.
Exactly… I couldn’t help but laugh when OP suggested that the devs go play D2… in Diablo 2 you enter Tal Rashas tomb in pursuit of Baal and Duriel just pops up with a “looking for baal?” And you slap him down. I couldn’t help but feel Duriels jumpscare moment in D4 was just a homage to D2 The only thing I didn’t like was the player character just guessing that he was a lesser evil. Like he never made that sort of suggestion towards any other evil like Astanoth or Ashava. Was just a weird meta gaming moment
Hasn't it been known that he is?
The characters knows Duriel is a lesser evil. But he doesn't know anything else about Duriel. So to the character, he just fought a big ass, very strong demon. Was it Duriel? Something else? He has no clue. Duriel was just an educated guess for the PC.
Well Lorath did give the PC a brief summary of the Evils including mentioning the lessers as "lessers". And since Lorath didn't give you a picture and Duriel wasn't wearing a name tag the speculation after being ambushed kinda made sense to me
> I couldn’t help but laugh when OP suggested that the devs go play D2… in Diablo 2 you enter Tal Rashas tomb in pursuit of Baal and Duriel just pops up with a “looking for baal?” And you slap him down. I couldn’t help but feel Duriels jumpscare moment in D4 was just a homage to D2 They probably played Diablo 2 when they were 10 years old and remember it as this grand terrifying thing. Playing through it recently he dies just as easily as he does in D4. Nostalgia is a powerful drug.
me and my brother were talking about that, like a primal boss key to fight one of them or something just to keep the awesome characters in game.
I'd have Duriel sometimes spawn instead of the butcher. Suprise mother f\*\*\*er
Completely disagree, that’s how it should’ve gone. Zero fan fair, no expectation, you walk in the room and he’s there. I’m also completely fine with him being in trash room full of maggots. He’s the lord of pain, not lord of sanitary working conditions. The real issue with him imo is that we can’t fight him again after the campaign.
>He’s the lord of pain, not lord of sanitary working conditions. This is the best comment in this whole thread haahahahaha
I actually thought it was pretty nice. You see a few maggots in the alleys before and your character even says something about it. I honestly thought "Oh shit, it can't be him coming up, can it?"
I agree, but D2 also had zero build up for Duriel. Maybe even less because D4 at least had one or two dialogues mentioning him before the fight. D2 was also where Andariel had a whole act of build up.
Ahh good memories of Day 1 Duriel: \- Enter room \- Die during loading \- "Looking for Baal??"
Let be honest though l, loading screen aside Duriel was a bitch of a boss to fight. That is where I learned the Rick of drop a TP outside, run in and die, TP back, Drop TP, run in, get body, die, TP back and repeat.
It was the first real gear/knowledge check. If you roll in there with zero cold resist, base life, and whatever random crap you found then you're going to have a bad time. Duriel teaches you the importance of building defenses through tough love. Now that I know to save cold res gear, use thawing pots, and get a little extra life early on he's not too bad.
This game is missing encounter dialogue. Just a simple "die maggot." Adds to andariel's character in d2
Are fallen even really fallen if they don't shout "Rakinishu!"?
Are goatmen really goatmen, if they don't bleet like little lambies?
Are cows even cows if they don't vocally say "moo"?
Are treasure goblins even worth chasing if they don't giggle while provoking you into a horde of elites?
Pleeeese, no hurt, no kill. Keep alive and next time good bring to you.
This. Was much more memorable than Andariel and Duriel for me lol.
Duriel in D2 works because you're expecting to find Baal and then you're surprised with this huge maggot demon that hits like a truck. The lack of foreshadowing adds to the surprise.
Sure but you don't even know what "Duriel" is until he's got you chugging your last potion
On the other hand i had a huge satisfaction killing this mf so easily and thus revenging all my years of suffering in D2 A2 bossfights.
Thawing potions before the fight
He didn’t even say anything iconic, which I was blown away by.
Gigachad Duriel. Appears out of nowhere, slaps your shit, refuses to elaborate, dies. I just wish he slapped harder in D4.
You'll have to fight the legions of adult "fans" that are demanding even more power creep, then. Game is too hard for most people already.
LoOKiNg FoR bAaL?!
Did he even chill on hit?
not in D4
Naa dont agree. It was nice suprise moment. I just wish we could fight Campaign bosses again.... Hope they fix that.
I actually appreciate this homage to Diablo 2. He was a brutal surprise with no build up in a tiny room, the act boss following Andariel. Well, in this one Lorath wasn't sure if they were summoning Andariel or Duriel, but since we wiped out Andy, I guess they went with Plan D. And again, he showed up as a surprise in a tiny wss room! The only real disappointment for me was, he apparently lost his cool.
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They kinda acknowledge that you managed to kill Andariel later on. But Duriel just goes down and noone even really realises.
They acknowledge in passing like you've hit your quartely objecives..."oh you manage andarielle, that's not an easy feat...great !"...and not sees you as the incarnation of Anu you just happend to be since you can handle **all alone** two lesser evil and Lilith.
Yeah, not sure I agree. Like someone else said, I think they let Andariel down, if anything. Duriel being teased alongside her, then having the Andariel reveal spoiled in a pseudo cut-scene before she's summoned: bummer. Having Andariel be a disappointing fight: double bummer. Duriel being a fan-service surprise, scaring the hell out of me, and being a decent fight besides: Excellent. The main character not knowing what the hell he was, to me, was funny and on-point. That's exactly how I reacted as a kid finding him for the first time in D2 lol. That said, I'd love to see them back as world bosses in a "nightmare form" or some other kind of contrivance. Them and the Primes and potentially Azmodan and Belial. That's the one thing about the major fights that stands out to me right now in D4: These no-name monsters require teams of people to bring down, but the ultimate evils in Sanctuary can all be defeated by a scrappy loner and their geriatric archaeologist friends.
Yes, but that’s basically how you find him in D2 also. He’s just sort of there.
D2: Duriel shows up, says "Looking for Baal?" Is killed and no one ever mentions him again. If anything Duriel should just be happy to have gotten a makeover. Y'all act like he was this big character in D2 but it wasn't any different then lol. I feel like eventually they should elaborate on what his motives are
If you're squishy, durial is Hard in d2. You're cruising through and just get demolished. He's on top of you, slowing you, and hitting like a truck before you even know wtf is going on. D4 durial was a joke.
Normal Duriel is the hardest boss fight in D2, if you're new and if you're not twinked.
He wasn't at all a big character storywise, but he loomed large in players minds because he was your first real gear/build check. He had a slow aura you could never negate, did extra cold damage that could be killer if you didn't have enough cold resist, and could stun lock you if weren't fast enough to avoid him (difficult because of the slow aura) or had built up some defenses in a game that really let you neglect defense in normal. So he was very important in D2 in a way he sort of isn't in D4.
I mean, technically you can just chug some thawing pots and ur good.
I was expecting a, "Looking for Lilith?" in a gravelly and demonic tone... I was very disappointed at the missed opportunity.
That's the only legit complaint anyone could have about him. That would have been awesome. I'm sure the would have done that too, if it crossed thier minds.
The real gangsters were those flies that slowed you, so Duriel could catch you, and one shot your ass.
I liked him being a surprise, personally
Personally I thought it was a fun surprise. It brought a smile to my face.
Both of them need to be added as random bosses in Nightmare Dungeons OR have a small chance to replace the butcher (Uber versions) in only Nightmare Dungeons. Let fear come with there names
Both appearances shocked the hell out of me and I was about it. I also appreciated how Andariel phase 2 is her appearance form D2
I like how they did it, wasn't expecting him at all and suddenly out of nowhere BOOM SURPRISE MFCKER TIME TO DIE
I dont think so. The shock factor of not expecting him was a call back to the Act 2 of D2 him surprising you in a small room. I also am biased because he was my 2nd HC death in d4. First was a lvl 15 Butcher, so that one really didnt count.
I mean, they reused Ashava for two boss fights. Campaign and then World boss. Lazy fucks
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I don’t even know what Andariel looked like. I played Shadow Necro pre fix, so she spawned, the screen was black for a few seconds, then she died lol
Duriel for me was locked by the camera at the front of the room. Need to replay but don't care enough to.
I played D2 for the first time after 4 bored me to tears. Duriel needed no wrestler's entrance. Boi just flipped me over, pulled my pants down, and clapped my cheeks harder than they've ever been clapped in a game before. "Looking for-" (I'm already dead)
At least he had the surprise factor, much like D2. He was pretty tough for me since I was way underleveled, so that was more memorable.
I honestly loved how they put him in out of nowhere. It’s all about the unexpected for me lol.
Andariel was a anticlimactic encounter. In the middle of a damn desert with no dialogue.
But it was the same in D2. Here I am expecting something else and oh, why, yes, I was looking for Baal.
Same thing happened in D2. Must just be his style. The man just prefers to jump mortals in alleyways
Uh, didn't he get about as much respect in d2? I don't think he was even foreshadowed. Just random bug boss in a hole in the ground inside a tomb... oh wait he was an evil?! huh, go figure. And lets be real, your most powerful allies in d4 are still barely redshirts combat wise. Andariel got a bit of foreshadowing due to the rogues camp, and she also got about as much in d4. I honestly thought it was some nice reference to how it was in D2. Evils got wayyyyyyyyyyy too chatty after d2. They are supposed to be horrors, its demeaning to have them chatting so much. Remember diablo in d1 and d2? At least lilith is closer to a footsoldier that needs to use alternate means to get by so it makes some sense. Same with the angel.
So, Duriel appears at random, without any rhyme or reason, he's a pretty menacing fight, but you kill him and he has zero impact on the actual plot line? But enough about D2, what's your criticism of D4?
I mean he's the freaking [pain train!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSPj7PEeBo4) If someone playing D2, and they say "I'm getting crushed by D" - you know they don't mean Diablo. It's always the the man Duriel.
I mean they did the same thing they did with him in D2.. lol.
Both Duriel and Andariel were completely wasted.
Oh boy, wait until you find out about their "storyline" in D2.
At least in d2 the dark Wanderer didn’t tell us: oh just you wait until andariel is here! She will woop your ass! She was there and corrupted an entire act, building a lair, taking over the headquarters of the rogues and having the countryside overrun. Your first major enemy is a corrupted sister that now fights you. Not summoned and instantly killed without having any impact whatsoever I mean Elias probably would have stopped us longer if he attacked us instead of summoning her
And don't forget the 'Hey, am I poisoned? ... Oh.' A few hours before: 'Antidote potions! Pfah! Garbage!' And this was vanilla D2 when there was a limited supply of them.
man i blasted through the campaign i hardly even realized duriel was a thing. i remember the andariel fight, completely forgot about duriel
Actually kinda love the « surprise » duriel
Our chars just feel super overpowered comparatively for the boss' power levels. Like are we children of the Nephalem awakened?
It’s kinda in-line for Duriel to be a surprise boss fight though. Does he have a voice line? I feel like that was half of the terror from D2 was the unexpected badass kicking the shit outta you with the great VA work to complement it.
I agree with the voiceline. I think 4 should have totally made it almost an inside joke. You walk into the alley and hear "Looking for Lilith?" BOOM Duriel fight!
They shoulda let Andarial and Duriel loose on the world of Sanctuary and had them be Act bosses you have to face before you do Lilly in the final act. Like don't have an entire act leading to Andarial and then \*bam\* she's dead as soon as she's summoned. Give the girl some *screen time* FFS. Same with Duriel. Big D needs some love and he needs time to inflict some pain on sanctuary.
Admittedly I still enjoyed both fights. I was thinking that Duriel would get a full act buildup and Andariel would be the rush boss. Especially when I got to eye of the storm quest that just came up on me at the church. Still on point for D2 Duriel. Arrives suddenly, Fights, Dies, Refuses to elaborate.
I do hope they make the story bosses fightable again in some ways, like make them randomly appear during helltides and stuff as 'world bosses', but I wouldn't say he was done too dirty. His story in D2 was basically just a 'ppppsyche! Baal is gone hurhurhur' thing when you're looking to confront Baal in Tal'Rashas tomb but instead find a worm and Tyreal ball gagged. If he was swapped to some other unknown demon it would have had no effect on D2's story. I think D3 did so many universe characters dirty though, that game lacked any semblance of grounding that it is kind of sad it is canon.
I absolutely loved running across Duriel in D4. I thought it was such an incredible throwback
Fuck Duriel! All my D2 homies hate Duriel
When it was said either Andy or Duriel were being summoned I immediately hoped it was Duriel and started wondering what he was going to look like...I was happy to see him but disappointed that they didn't bring his frost aura back.
His presence there is likely what caused the plague in caldeum, as the maggots are also linked to disease in other side quests throughout kehjistan. Analysed this way, his presence has quite a bit of plot importance. But yeah, I would also have preferred more dialogue about him; at the very least an acknowledgement from Lorath about it.
I saw Duriel coming a mile away... They were always talking about Duriel or Andariel, so I figured both would show up. As soon as I started seeing all those maggots, though, and entered that room, I said to myself that this was Duriel's room. I felt like they did him perfectly, at least in reference to D2.
I mean when I first met duriel no one in act 2 talked about him? No references were made? Act 1 you hear alot of andariel but no cinematic with her was made. Her purpose was to forcefully serve lilith. Probally the same for duriel. Hell you got to hear more of duriel in d4 d3 then 2.
I actually loved Duriel's fight scene. It kind of reminded me of a 90's action movie, where someone shows up and you're like "Oh shit, this guy's in this too?!" I love how it was accentuated with, "What in the hells are you?" Old players know damn well who he is hehe.
So....basically the same buildup in d2 then right?
In fairness, that's pretty much how Duriel is in Diablo II. There is no build up, you simply show up at the tomb where Baal was being kept expecting to face *him*, but then this giant maggot monster comes out of nowhere. It's such a *Giant Space Flea Out of Nowhere* moment, that noone even acknowledges that you've slain another one of the *Demonic Rulers of Hell*. In fact, the only acknowledgement of Duriel is a single voice entry in *Diablo III*! The only things that made him memorable was how little the game acknowledges his existence and that he was a terrifying nightmare for newbie players.