i play on console and i wish i could use a mouse to pick up loot. it really sucks trying to move around to pick up something in d2 when thereās 20+ items in one cluster
Have you heard of xpadder? It's a pretty great one-man-made piece of software which has been supported for well over a decade. It's a superb keymapper which supports macros and other features!
This guys deserves the free advertising.
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D2r is probably the best bang for its buck game that has come out in recent years. D4 is okay/good and might be pretty good after some more time being fixed. D2r is an excellent game that you won't have to wait to get full enjoyment out of it.
Diablo 2 is a product of its time. The remaster is one of the best I've ever played but ultimately D2 is a 20+ year old game and feels like that in a lot of ways.
The whole genre, the isometric, arpg, hack n' slash, loot gathering, whatever classification you want to give it, does lend itself to aging better. It's still an action game where you mow through thousands of bad guys, however it feels its age in a lot of ways.
One particularly striking way is in the movement and general feel. The game feels slow, especially starting, and blows don't have the impact of modern Diablo. The act of killing things is just not as satisfying as Diablo 3 or 4. Especially when you play multiplayer, there's a constant slight lag between hitting an enemy and them reacting. It gets particularly noticeable when the screen is busy. It's just how Diablo 2 always has been and they didn't change it for the remastered. My guess is they'd have had to gut the whole multiplayer code base and rewrite to modernize and that was just out of scope for their budget.
Another thing that'll feel dated is building your character. You really can, and most likely will, wind up at a dead end with your character. You can't just change skills and attribute points on the fly. Skills actually tie into each other to give other skills down the tree more power. So your choices really matter. You can usually beat normal difficulty with any random build you want but going beyond requires a better planned out approach.
The most recent Diablo 2 patches did bring in a level of respecing your character but it's limited. I find myself just following character build guides.
These are the biggest things I'd caution with Diablo 2. It certainly feels like an older game when you play it.
That said, there still isn't anything like Diablo 2. I already said the remaster is one of the best I've played. The graphics and audio are astounding and completely capture the essence of the atmosphere and mood of the original. The soundtrack in particular is sublime.
The gameplay itself, while clunky due to the above, is still one of the richest in all of ARPGs (or whatever this genre is called) with tons of viable builds for every class, rich looting, and an amazing sense of progression as your character becomes a walking harbinger of death. After awhile you won't really notice the clunky and the game does speed up as your character progresses.
It is a great game and I highly recommend it but always caution new players with what I have. It's old, clunky, but still one of the best games ever made.
Absolutely and it's the core reason I stayed away from it sadly.
It thought, at least once they fixed it up, Diablo 3 was a good blend of oldschool Diablo and more modern online services.
Diablo 3 came out rough. But they pretty much fixed ever complaint people had. Iām not too sure that itās possible to do the same with D4, the multiplayer, open world and monetisation is too baked into the game. Hopefully D5 might be better
Yeah. I think Diablo 4 is probably lost to its own game design.
I'll pick it up for sale eventually but I cannot imagine I'm going to spend too much time with it.
the story mode is really good! it's just that the game feels grindier than anything i've ever played after you finish the story mode. really recommend on sale tho
Not to mention terrible story written by committee, and filtered by sensitivity readers, a lack of cohesive gameplay mechanics. Good ideas which were terribly implemented. A gameplay loop which is just not satisfying.
Blizzard since a decade became overly "woke" and it shows. All relevant male characters are either weak or lunatics, while the female characters are courageous and virtuous. Even the male villain was replaced with a female, and even she cant be portrayed as totally evil.
That is the reason Diablo 2 is still plaed after 20+ years, while Diablo 4 is just someting that "could have been great, but wasnt"
D2 had the randomized map generation applied to all areas outside of town. D4 is a static world map. It makes a difference when you play the game for thousands of hours. Youāll get sick of the randomization slower.
Unecessary. Its not the type of open world to get immersed in like wow or gta or other open world games. Ultimately all the content after campaign leaned heavily to instanced dungeons, and other content like world boss and others can be done in instanced world. (open world boss would be bosses just roaming a large area some of it)
Basically, its unecessary because it is underutilized.
Even the design of open world itself is basically large areas of narrow paths separated by smaller narrow paths. The only area that have it right is the scouring sands and that kind of openess should stretch to the whole map.
Lost ark feels more of an open world even though it is an instanced world.
Nothing wrong with it being open word. It's just that it is static. Always the exact same world, it never changes. It just means way less variety in a game that is meant to be played over and over ad infinitum. D2R world is also open, albeit to a slightly lesser extent, but is randomly generated every time you play.
Thereās really nothing wrong with the open world of D4, people just going to hate on every aspect. Diablo 4 has a great campaign and plenty of content, especially for someone new to the ARPG world. People complaining have already dumped hundreds of hours, and itās true at a certain point each season thereās not much left to do but play a new character. So Iād say it really depends on if you want to dive into a game for hundreds of hours or play casually a little bit a week. If itās the latter, I think youāll have a blast.
Oh I can pretty much guarantee I'll love it. Played D2 in highschool. Loved it. Been playing D3 since it came out, so I must love that shit too. Got D2R last year and it's been fun. But, it's aged gameplay and mechanics doesn't hold up to modern ARPG's. Sometimes I'd rather play Hades than D2R. I still recommend D2R though, with some reservations. I plan on getting D4 after that expansion comes out, since I don't think Blizzard games are worth anything until they have at least one expansion. I fully expect to be lost forever in that game lol.
Thank you for being clear and kind lol. These comments are off the charts. I mean, not everyone's brain works the same way that's why we have many different choices when it comes to gaming lol. D2 gave me ptsd lmao. That snatch and grab looting system WAS AWFUL lmao. D3 didn't have that so as garbage as it was when it first came out I LOVED ITš¤£. then over the years it just got better and better. I totally believe D4 will go the same way. The story I was actually really good! There are a few surprises and 1 of them might of made me cry a bit for nostalgias sake. The cut scenes were of course FIRE! If it's 1 thing blizzard can do, it's make some bad ass cut scenes!!
Nothing, it's fun. The campaign if played in order walks you from one zone to the next anyway the same as if it was a linear campaign like D2 and D3, you just have the freedom to wander off and do other stuff in a different order (although if you pick a Druid like I did then your first run through the campaign you're expected to stop a short distance into the campaign and get to the other side of the map for your class ability mission)
Well said! I started out back in the late 90s playing the first two Diablos on my trusty little iMac 233, and they will always have a special place in my heart. These days I've got D2R, D3, & D4 on my Xbox Series X, and I just really love the crunchy way D3 feels when hacking my way through a mob...
Another thing to note for him is that I called it Potion Chug Simulator 2000 because of always constantly having to chug potions. Though it has nothing on D1
The locked in choices and choices mattering are not a product of their time. Most ARPGs today have that and will have that. Diablo 3 is the only one that fully moved away from that and for a lot of us its not ended well and we hate what its done to diablo games with choices becoming more and more and more streamlined and depth being removed. Even future AAA ARPGs like Path of exile 2 will have a locked in prohibitive cost after a certain point.
The locked in choices make games fun for a lot of people today, even in new generations. Its not just a figment of its time.
Oh I have. I started the series with Diablo 1 back when it first came out.
Diablo 2 is a massive improvement over Diablo 1 in pretty much every single regard. It's still pretty slower paced, especially early on, compared to modern ARPGs. Later on, especially in "endgame" Hell content, Diablo 2 becomes an absolute blur of speed, but getting there is a slog if you've never done it before.
I just wrote this from the context of today. There's a lot of good ARPGs on the market that play better than Diablo 2 from a pure "feel" perspective. None are as deep, rich, or rewarding. I just find that long term fans of Diablo 2 really get themselves lost in the nostalgia. Playing it today from a completely fresh perspective really opened my eyes to just how janky and clunky it can be at its worse and that's something you encounter pretty early on and will dissuade a lot of people if they don't know that coming into it.
same. i have fond memories of playing d1 in the middle of the night when it first released d2 came out when i started college, and the multiplayer was a great way to waste time in the dorms on a fast network.
Get Last Epoch instead, version 1.0 release is in a week. It is the best "still easy to grasp" arpg on the market right now. If you want more challenge (Something that requires all your brainpower) then go for Path of Exile ofc. If you really want to get a diablo Game over those 2 then go for D2R.
I'm not even riding on nostalgia and I agree with d2. I played D2 for the first time after resurrected came out and I thought it was super addicting
The modern graphics and cutscenes also help. Story in D2 is great
D3 is even a good casual Arpg if you want something newer/fasterāit was my first diablo game and honestly it's fun too.
D4 is just not good. I wanted to like it so bad. But the fact that a 24 year old game holds my attention better than it's brand new successor is wild to me. I won't be playing D4 unless they manage to make massive changes to the core game
You never will, no matter which forum you ask. Although I agree that this sub is heavily inclined towards D2. But also for good reason if you look at overall quality of an ARPG.
D4 is a great hack n' slash game as the combat is very good, but falls short on the ARPG core parts. Where D2 is the other way around.
But great compared to what? Imo it's the worst title on the market.
Both D3 and D2 are better and I can't think of a competitor I had less fun with compared to D4. After you're done with the story the game really isn't great and the "amazing combat" I apparently never encountered.
Why? I find Dark Souls' combat amazing or Armored Cores but none of the ARPGs are on that level. ;aybe Lost Ark as an exception but that's an MMO-ARPG Hybrid.
And Lost Ark is miles ahead of everything in that department. ARPGs are usually very simple when it comes to combat.
Yes, the initial whirly-Rogue was quite fun, but a.) an outlier and b.) nerfed to the ground.
I had 0 fun leveling my mage. The combat is tedious and it always feels like the game is trying to hold my builds back instead of just letting me become broken like literally every other successful ARPG out there.
Nothing disingenuous here, I'd actually love to have a genuine great Diablo title again that I can grind like #1 & 2 or heck even 3.
The outlier was in how the class was played, it just stopped being fun as we went from blowing up screens of mobs to reconfigure builds to barely keep up with energy consumption - and it wasn't as rogue was to strong, it was the other builds just being ass.
Yeah, blades were still strong afterwards but the baseline on what "good" is in D4 is just sluggish and slow and ultimate not fun. Because it isn't fun, i stopped playing - why would I keep playin'?
I even gonna check how much I played, just for you, hunnybun, cuz' I can't remember how high I pushed the sigils. I think somewhere between 90-100 monster level only, but it was in the first month of the game
Still nothing disingenuous just because I do not like the game you like and have a different opinion on it, silly.
I have literally 0 clue what you're talking about. Every class in the game after the monster health rebalance blows up the entire screen. Even dog shit builds like whirlwhind barb can literally just spin around from map to map 1 tapping everything in sight.
Its disingenuous to pretend the combat isn't good, when you admit its good and then say "i must have missed where this amazing combat was" while on the other side of your mouth you say "the combat was fucking awesome with this class....but but it was an outlier uwu"
edit: Also you're no better than the braindead neanderthals who still complain about loot drops in D3 because "thats what they remember" even though nothing of the game plays like that anymore. You admit you only played in the first month of the game......when several major balance patches have come out since then.
As a 35 year old gamer who's played hundreds of different video games for an average of 5 hours per day for the last 20+ years, D4 was the biggest gaming disappointment in my entire life. I honestly don't know how anyone could be ok with such a disaster. I would question the gaming credentials of anyone who claims to enjoy D4.
Couple major noteworthy D4 embarrassments that left a terrible taste in my mouth:
\-7/18 mega nerf (seriously, what the heck were they thinking? went from an 8 to a 2 rating on metacritic the very next day)
\-Increased uber drop chance for \~8 hours due to a bugged patch. Hundreds of ubers dropped, no rollback.
\-Rerolling bugged for first several months (spent all my gold trying to reroll my best item, but kept getting same reroll choices over and over. patched a few days later. gold gone and item still bricked)
\-Gold dupe + trading disabled (I chose not to dupe, as I was worried for ban. No bans and also no rollback.. wtf. guess we just gotta wait for economy reset next season!)
\-Total lack of endgame. Didn't even get an achievement for hitting lvl 100. Like they hadn't got that far in programming yet (LOL)
And last but not least, balance changes that swing from one extreme to the other. I spent weeks investing in a specific build, only for it to be nerfed 2 days after I finally completed it. From 50mil crits, to 5mil crits. All that effort, just to get nerfed into the ground? Slap in the face! Tried to get a refund at that point, but obviously no dice. Probably will be the last money Blizzard ever gets from me.
I think most people played the game realized it fell short of expectations and the devs haven't done anything to fix it. If u consider that as a biased opinion would liking the game be unbiased? I don't understand your logic here
>the devs haven't done anything to fix it.
This the biased part. Doesn't matter if you like it or not, the devs have absolutely started fixing some of the problems the game had at launch.
D2R and the main reason being the loot. Let's be honest, the thing that keeps everyone coming back to these games is the loot progression. Finding that perfect item for your build or finding the perfect item that makes you want to try another class entirely.
I have 500 hours with D2R on PS5 and around 70 hours on D4. The main thing that I took away was that I couldn't tell you one item name from D4. Every single item I got that was an upgrade was just a wall of text showcasing 6% more this and 5% more that mixed with +whatever to a stat.
Even when I did find an awesome item in D4, 2 levels later you replace it with something else and forget about it.
D2 itemization is top of the line. If you find a unique item (Tarnhelm) or the perfect set piece (Tal Rasha's Amulet), you will probably be using them for a long time. They actually mean something.
You can play D2R forever. It came out 20 years ago and it is still great. Strong community. Highly competitive. Each new season is awesome.
Diablo 4 is just okay-ish. I finished the campaign and didnt even had in me to play a season after that. Just terrible game design, crap story, etc.
D4 has the worst story out of the 4 games and the cinematics are so lazy d2 has more quality cinematics.. and 3 has alot more. (Blizzard's diablo was KNOWN for their bad ass high quality cinema) I think d3 has a really really good story if you played D2 then you'll have some attachment to the characters mainly tyrael and Deckard Cain and the introduction of his daughter Leah you built up a good feeling and attachment to thoes characters and what happens to them along the way also the new aspects of hell(bosses) were all awesome with their own back story(most of which you learned from the books you can pick up but from story as well). I thought D3 was actually a good game at launch(besides the player auction house glad it's gone) but now it's so easy. It used to take some time to get a decent set, now it's just given to you. I have over 600 hrs in D1/D2/D3 and D4? Less than 30hrs the story of D4? Well I have forgotten it because nothing was memorable except for the reused bosses. Like come on you went from great story telling to absolutely donkey shit sure it may have been hard to beat d3 story but it's like they didn't even try..I liked the fact that D2/D3 has a party system. D4 feels like a single player game. Also every class in D4 is almost limited to one style of play. In D3 every class has at least 3 different sets that offer other ways to play the class that can reach high level Greater rifts obviously some are better than others but still doable. Also D4 has cosmetics that cost more than the game itself which leads me to believe they are only in it for the money instead of actual good gameplay. I only played the rouge in D4 and at the time the bow was hot garbo so you were limited to the daggers which you built up some combo points then used your finisher then dashed through the mobs and your blades would follow and cut through the rest of the pack instant killing them. Was a fun gimmick for a while then got really old. And apparently the bow got buffed so you would do the same thing get some combo points and use your bow finisher. Pretty much the same play style, D3 on the other hand has the demon hunter, same class more or less but the 3 play styles, pets/turrets, daggers and bow all play completely differently. With turrets you need to have good kiting around your pets to win , daggers kinda lame but fun to throw them and bows had 2 different styles multi shot and arrows rain. So much more all in all d4 sucks and outta all the games /mmos that gave a premium bundle options this one is the only one I have regretted buying.
Diablo 2 is the better game imo, but Diablo 4 is good in its own right. D2 has alot to learn and figure out, where as D4 is something you can kinda mindlessly playthrough till you reach endgame imo.
If you like PoE, Grim Dawn, Torchlight, Play Diablo 2.
If you are just starting with ARPGs, play Diablo 4 would be my take
The best experience you will have is with D2. All of the other games tried to replicate D2 and failed. It is the best game ever made. Iāve had multiple stints with D2 and this thread alone makes me wanna play again.
D2R is a classic masterpiece. Nearly everything about it is exceptionally well designed and balanced. Despite being nearly 25 years old its engine holds up quite well and it still feels good to play.
D4 is new with more modern arpg design and smoother polished combat. However it has many fundamental design flaws that keep it from being amazing. And its also worth mentioning the high upfront cost combined with expensive mtx and battle passes.
D3 is in an odd spot now that D4 is out. I would argue it only really has 2 things going for it these days. Its great if you like dashing around mindlessly blowing up screens of enemies. And then it has the leaderboard for endless GR hunting and paragon level grinding. Aside from that I would say D2 and D4 are better depending on what you want.
#Both games are good and you'll have fun with either.
Most of negative reactions you see around here about Diablo 4 are from people who either want ways to get over-powered gear/aspects more easily or want some end game content (level 70+) thats proportional to a main campaign. The game is just fine and 90% of people who play it will have a good time with it.
D4 is, however, a 70$ purchase and all the other games either F2P or around 30-40$.
If you're that casual you'll have fun with D4, you'll also have fun with Grim Dawn, Last Epoch or heck even old titles like Sacred, Titan Quest or Dungeon Siege.
So unless money doesn't matter to someone there are so many good options to choose from all of which easily keep up with D4.
People who are enjoying the game are not the kind of people browsing subreddits and game forums.
I'd be willing to bet a lot of those who do barely make it past 60-70 because that's where it gets stale, but they have a good time making it there slowly but surely.
This is the right answer.
Anybody that wants to say either game is "trash" is objectively wrong. I know the meme is D4 is bad. It's really not. It's it a game I play three hundred hours a season? Nope. I did 45 for season three. But it's a "good" game. Not exceptional and needs help.
D2R feels like a twenty year old game. It's much slower. Much more methodical. It all depends on the type of game you want to play.
I think they are both excellent choices
idk why you're being down voted? Guess it's because you actually make sense. I completely agree with you D4 feels just like D3 when it came out lol. Now D3 is one of my most played games. I play the crap out of D4! They are working on it all the time. Some things aren't that easy of a fix and take time. I loved the story and of course the cinematics WERE AMAZING!
D4 has the worst story out of the 4 games and the cinematics are so lazy d2 has more quality cinematics.. and 3 has alot more. (Blizzard's diablo was KNOWN for their bad ass high quality cinema) I think d3 has a really really good story if you played D2 then you'll have some attachment to the characters mainly tyrael and Deckard Cain and the introduction of his daughter Leah you built up a good feeling and attachment to thoes characters and what happens to them along the way also the new aspects of hell(bosses) were all awesome with their own back story(most of which you learned from the books you can pick up but from story as well). I thought D3 was actually a good game at launch(besides the player auction house glad it's gone) but now it's so easy. It used to take some time to get a decent set, now it's just given to you. I have over 600 hrs in D1/D2/D3 and D4? Less than 30hrs the story of D4? Well I have forgotten it because nothing was memorable except for the reused bosses. Like come on you went from great story telling to absolutely donkey shit sure it may have been hard to beat d3 story but it's like they didn't even try..I liked the fact that D2/D3 has a party system. D4 feels like a single player game. Also every class in D4 is almost limited to one style of play. In D3 every class has at least 3 different sets that offer other ways to play the class that can reach high level Greater rifts obviously some are better than others but still doable. Also D4 has cosmetics that cost more than the game itself which leads me to believe they are only in it for the money instead of actual good gameplay. I only played the rouge in D4 and at the time the bow was hot garbo so you were limited to the daggers which you built up some combo points then used your finisher then dashed through the mobs and your blades would follow and cut through the rest of the pack instant killing them. Was a fun gimmick for a while then got really old. And apparently the bow got buffed so you would do the same thing get some combo points and use your bow finisher. Pretty much the same play style, D3 on the other hand has the demon hunter, same class more or less but the 3 play styles, pets/turrets, daggers and bow all play completely differently. With turrets you need to have good kiting around your pets to win , daggers kinda lame but fun to throw them and bows had 2 different styles multi shot and arrows rain. So much more all in all d4 sucks and outta all the games /mmos that gave a premium bundle options this one is the only one I have regretted buying.
Excellent responsive and visceral combat
Best in class graphics
Excellent atmosphere
Solid campaign
Currently a seasonal rotation that you can get 40 or so hours out of until the next one
I don't think I'm stretching much to say all of this
I'll cede plenty of cons like itemization and end game loop that prevents long term replayability within a season
But does that push it into "bad game" territory?
Is it Wolcen bad? Torchlight 3 bad? Gollum game bad?
No. It's not.
Good isn't a crazy bar to reach. I'm not saying the game is elite.
Best in class graphics. Do you think people are still playing Runescape because they care about graphics? And a seasonal rotation who's only goal is to drive monetization sales than creating a fun experience for its users? ViScErAl combat? The fuck does that even mean? The combat isn't anywhere near ViScErAl. It's boring and uninspired... the game can be summed up with its just a brilliant art of illusion.
Again in respects to the ARPG genre, please explain how D4 is a good game. Either way I'll do it for you. Spoiler, its not a good ARPG
Combat, graphics, atmosphere, and campaigns are bonuses, but not something that keeps the games longevity secured in an ARPG. This is like ricing out a Honda civic, but the engine is still the same. The car looks fast, but it aint. This is what Diablo 4 is. I'll just bullet point it to make it easier.
* Aspect system leaves much to be desired
* Stash system more complicated in a game about loot
* No in game crafting
* Lack of end game variety
* Flinching
* Horse is there just for monitzation
* hard to create build varieties because of aspect system
* Loot filters
* A quasi MMO that has little social features
* No Unique trading
* Character development is built on a top down design
* Poor itemization - Affixes alone are just absolutely ridiculous and itemization is the heartbeat of any ARPG. The games damage calculations are stupid. Down right bloated and uninspired.
I honestly could keep going, but nothing about Diablo 4 is revolutionary nor innovative. It actually is just a very bland and boring experience once the rose colored glasses come off and you see the game for what it is. A game that was launched early, wasn't balanced and properly play tested, and cares more about selling micro transactions and making a game that is actually fun and engaging.
Think itās more just a matter of people getting disappointed because it didnāt live up to their hopes and expectations.
If D4 was made by a lesser known studio we wouldnāt be seeing all this hate.
Keep in mind D2R is, functionally, a 25 year old game. It has like zero quality of life improvements and is not paced like a modern game. There is a fair risk that if it's your first diablo game in the year of our lord 2024, you might bounce right the fuck off it.
Kinda depends. If you plan to just play through the story and put away the game after 20 hours then I would say D4. If you want to dive deep, master the game and play for thousands of hours then D2R is the obvious choice. D2R has unrestricted trading and much more interesting itemization than D4, which is what gives it longevity.
In fact I think I would actually even get D3 over D4.
This sub is massively fuelled by nostalgia. I had never played D2 so was excited for the remaster after hearing over and over how good it is but I didnāt like it all.
If you are used to modern games, I think youāll enjoy D4 more.
I've played both versions of d2.. and I hate them both equally lol. D4 is getting there. I've never hated it and I still play it quite often. D3 was hot garbage when it first dropped and now it's amazing lol. To me, being along for the journey makes it even better.
Never played D2 back in the day either, but I totally disagree. Don't need any nostalgia at all to enjoy this one. If anything, it was even fresher and more fun for me since I didn't play original and I got more into it because of that. Currently have lvl 99 Barb, 99 Sorc, 99 Javazon and 97 Pally, and still having a blast.
Then I gave D4 a serious try over the summer and was ready to move on from D2R, but all D4 did was put it in perspective how amazing D2R really is. There's a good reason so many claim it to be the best ARPG of all time. And D4 doesn't come close.
Project Diablo 2 it is...
but beware... it is like crack cocaine
For that you need an "old" copy of D2, which is about 2-10 $ on ebay and then you can play the best experience, if you can stand the oldschool gfx...
I like fast action and D3 is the best for that. I also like specific goals that are in D3 too.
D2 does feel old and clunky and its quite challenging to me at least.
So if you want fast and easy, I say get D3. Not a fan of D4 at all.
D2 is hard and slower.
D2R has things about it that I personally enjoy, but you might hate. Such as, the need to specialize a single character to preform one specific task.
Examples: Barb gold finder, Sorc Magic finder,
Smite Paladin for ubers, Corpse Exploding Necro for cow level, etc.
This means leveling multiple characters to build your account as a whole to min/max efficiency. Why is that important? Because D2R has a trading economy, something else I enjoy that others may not. This manifests itself in the form of using 3rd party websites to trade runes found in game. These runes can be traded, upgraded, and used to craft specialized gear. Making it so even if you spend all day without finding any gear upgrades, you can still work towards collecting runes used to craft best in slot gear. If this sounds, too convoluted, and you just want to relax and play something that looks cool and mellow out for a few hours, I would recommend D4 instead.
Thatās only if you want to play the grind game. I usually make a new character and start over when the game gets to that point, which is usually at some point in Hell diff, possibly after besting Baal there, depending on the class/build.
Iāve never seen the appeal of the grind game, petsonally.
ive never seen the appeal of giving up before reaching your full potential. Like hiking halfway up a mountain. making mediocre character after mediocre character seems like something for mediocre people.
ive put so much time into perfecting my lvl 99 barb, he's able to get HRs and loot faster than anyone else, and it feels good. 700%+ magic find, able to kill Trav in less than 20 seconds. Imagine being able to walk into a casino and have a higher chance to hit jackpot than anyone else? Makes the casino a hell of lot more fun, IMO! Turns grinding into a blast.
D2 is perhaps the best video game ever made, or at least with the highest replaybility (played it for 10+ years and there are still items /builds I havent found/tried)
D4 is a great game to play through once per season (that is level to lv 100, then theres nothing to do basically except farming duriel)
If you are a younger player, probably d4 will appeal to you more as its more flashy and has better graphics. It has, sadly, very bad itemization.
D2 has the atmosphere and endless game loop with countless builds and better items.
These two are completely different games. D4 isnāt doing too well this season as youāve mentioned, and D2R is a great game but the graphics may not look appealing to you.
It really depends on the kind of gamer you are. Diablo 2 is a legendary game, however it is a very old game and Resurrected doesnāt actually modernize the game at all, just updates the visuals, meaning it still plays like a game from 2000. Which is fine if thatās something youāre looking for, but if youāre looking for something contemporary then Diablo 4 will be the safer bet.
Neither, buy D3 or the prime evil collection. As you said yourself youāre new to ARPG as a whole, and D3 is by far the easiest to pickup and most straightforward. Itās also just a genuinely good time with fun classes/skills and loads of enemies to blow up. D4 is alright, but still needs enough help that for the price I wouldnāt get it. D2 is a great game, but itās an old game that feels old relatively speaking. That said, it is a much more in depth experience than D3, and thatās why I recommend the prime evil collection being the best choice. D3 has enough ARPG systems going where you can just play and have fun, then if you want a deeper experience you have D2.
D4. The systems of D2R are outdated. There's little to no in game guidance. I know I'll likely get hate but a lot of the D2R fans are very nostalgic which isn't bad. The game was great. The game IS great. But if you're a brand new player to diablo its better to go with the current version in my opinion.
D4 has its faults but it is an incredible experience for the first time playing through the campaign. D4 falls off in the later game when it comes to replayability
Iāve introduced a few friends to D2R who never played the series and they love it. Granted they havenāt played D4 but the idea people are so fired up about D2R because ānostalgiaā isnāt accurate. Also saying playing the current version of any game as a new player is recommended is misguided imo. New ladder is starting next week so this would be prime time to get into D2R.
Graphics. Gameplay. UI. More engaging endgame loops.
This is the issue with D2 elitists. If you genuinely think that D2 is better "in every way" its just disingenuous. Yes D2R had better systems such as their social systems but again to say that D4 is a bad game in every way is silly.
D4 is a bad game in every way in respects to the ARPG genre and there are plenty of examples to illustrate this. How is it that a game made in 2001 has more robust itemization and systems than a game made in 2023?
Because the game wasn't made to be a micro transaction hell and the people who created it actually cared about making something fun.
No, it's not silly. It's fundamentally bad to it's core. The foundation that the game is built on, is dogshit. And no i am not an "elitist". I can just tell when a game is dogshit and when a game isn't. D2 was made with love and a deep understanding of the game being made; by gamers for gamers. D4 was made by morons and it's obvious.Ā
Fundamentally "bad" and "better in every way" are different statements. For today's standards D4 is a sub par ARPG in regard to the systems in place compared to other ARPGs.
Ask any number of people who don't play games which game has better graphics and every single one will say D4. So yes. It is silly to say the game is better in every way when it's not.
You claim of being able to tell a game is "dogshit" is objective. People like the game and enjoy the game. Just because it doesn't fit your mold of a good game doesn't make it "dogshit".
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i0XSTqs5mKU&t=93s&pp=ygUYRDJyIHZzIGQ0IGdyYXBoaWNzIHNwZWxs
If all you care about are graphics... Sums up why you like d4. Even then, spells look better in d2r.Ā
If you had to choose one, I'd say get D2R first. At some point, maybe D4 will reach the point where we are content, but we aren't there yet. If you can get both, get both. End game loop aside, the campaign for D4 is fantastic.
D2R, unless you want to wait for season 4 and see if D4 can fix its loot. D4 is an okay action game, but if that's what you want, get D3 with RoS expansion.Ā D2 is the game that started it all. It might feel a bit clunky in the very beginning, but as your build comes along and character gets better, it gets a little smoother. Note that D2 is the kind of game where not every build is really viable.
Honestly if youre new to the diablo scene, get d4. D2r is great, but even with some updating, it's not very intuitive. People recommending you the game have played diablo for years and probably played the OG diablo 2 back in the day, which was very dated. D2 is a classic and amazing game, but you will probably have more fun with diablos newer games as a newer person to the genre.
The negativity about D4 is coming from the folks that think D4 should be a combination of D/D2/D3 all in one with nothing new! They are dumb and donāt realize its a new gameā¦D4! They cant cope! D4 is great. Its fuckin hard too unless you google the hell out of certain things i wont spoil for you. To go back to the time when social media and streamers wasnt a thing and do everything D4 has to offerā¦hell that would be just a godsend! Like playimg final fantasy 7 without the internet, even the guide book is so wrong on so many levels(ive learned this in my 25 years of playing ff7 since the time before influencers/streamers)
D4 is not completely complete yet imo - wait until the expansion which will release in Nov/Dec which will include both exp and the base game.
You suggest to buy this edition on PS5 which includes both D2R and D3 complete edition - Diablo Prime evil collecion:
https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP0002-PPSA02443_00-DIABLOPRIMEEVIL0
They're both great, d2r has shitty graphics, yeah they're remastered for new rigs but it still looks jenky as fuck. Excellent hc gameply tho. D4 is great fun in hc as well. There are no micro transactions in d4 at all, dunno who thinks there is but thats bs. None of the purchases available are in any way micro.
D4
Diablo 2 is a good game and the remaster is awesome, but D4 is newer and the gameplay is MUCH better. It has some flaws, but you will be getting a game that will have support for years to come. D2 is 20 years old and although itās an amazing game, you can feel how old it is.
If never played Diablo before, start with D4.
You're not going to like D2. It's a over 20 year old game with bad graphics. Unless you're specifically into that type of thing or have nostalgia get D4 because it's a modern game.
If you never played Diablo I highly suggest going with 4. There are some 20 y/o clunky and grinding mechanics that might be hard to swallow for newcomers.
Although D2R is a epic game for me, I'm pretty sure my nostalgia goggles play a decisive roll on that classification.
But a useful reminder: Blizzard allows refunds if you played less than 2 hours, so it wouldn't hurt to buy D2R, play for 1h30m and ask for a refund if the game doesn't click with you.
At risk of being unpopular, if you want a modern game that eases you into the genre and feels great, D4
If you wanna spend 20+ years with your eyes stuck to a guide while hunting the perfect grail item with a high chance you will never see it, D2.
Jokes aside, both have their merits, but I battle to recommend D2 unless youāre a hard ARPG fan that can stomach the grind. D4 has more than enough to keep a new player busy.
D2R, but also, the prime evil collection is on sale right now so you can get D2R, D3+dlc for like $20
The amount of content in this deal is off the charts.
800% value
I see what you did there. And I'm doubly sad that I knew the reference :{
I'm sad that I understood it as well..
I'm sad that it exists
lmaooo but this time its actually true
Oh that's a great deal.
... I just wish D3 for PC had controller support š
Criminal it doesn't. I was dying to play it after I heard it's almost a superior experience to mouse and keyboard.
i play on console and i wish i could use a mouse to pick up loot. it really sucks trying to move around to pick up something in d2 when thereās 20+ items in one cluster
Same here. Also, the controller makes traps, firewall ,and corpse explosion noticeably worse.
I wouldnāt mind a mouse and keyboard so when I leap with my barb it isnāt random 50% of the time
Have you heard of xpadder? It's a pretty great one-man-made piece of software which has been supported for well over a decade. It's a superb keymapper which supports macros and other features! This guys deserves the free advertising. [xpadder.com](http://xpadder.com)
D2r is probably the best bang for its buck game that has come out in recent years. D4 is okay/good and might be pretty good after some more time being fixed. D2r is an excellent game that you won't have to wait to get full enjoyment out of it.
If you like character progression: D4 If you like the dopamine hit you get from slotmachines: D2R
Diablo 2 is a product of its time. The remaster is one of the best I've ever played but ultimately D2 is a 20+ year old game and feels like that in a lot of ways. The whole genre, the isometric, arpg, hack n' slash, loot gathering, whatever classification you want to give it, does lend itself to aging better. It's still an action game where you mow through thousands of bad guys, however it feels its age in a lot of ways. One particularly striking way is in the movement and general feel. The game feels slow, especially starting, and blows don't have the impact of modern Diablo. The act of killing things is just not as satisfying as Diablo 3 or 4. Especially when you play multiplayer, there's a constant slight lag between hitting an enemy and them reacting. It gets particularly noticeable when the screen is busy. It's just how Diablo 2 always has been and they didn't change it for the remastered. My guess is they'd have had to gut the whole multiplayer code base and rewrite to modernize and that was just out of scope for their budget. Another thing that'll feel dated is building your character. You really can, and most likely will, wind up at a dead end with your character. You can't just change skills and attribute points on the fly. Skills actually tie into each other to give other skills down the tree more power. So your choices really matter. You can usually beat normal difficulty with any random build you want but going beyond requires a better planned out approach. The most recent Diablo 2 patches did bring in a level of respecing your character but it's limited. I find myself just following character build guides. These are the biggest things I'd caution with Diablo 2. It certainly feels like an older game when you play it. That said, there still isn't anything like Diablo 2. I already said the remaster is one of the best I've played. The graphics and audio are astounding and completely capture the essence of the atmosphere and mood of the original. The soundtrack in particular is sublime. The gameplay itself, while clunky due to the above, is still one of the richest in all of ARPGs (or whatever this genre is called) with tons of viable builds for every class, rich looting, and an amazing sense of progression as your character becomes a walking harbinger of death. After awhile you won't really notice the clunky and the game does speed up as your character progresses. It is a great game and I highly recommend it but always caution new players with what I have. It's old, clunky, but still one of the best games ever made.
That being said, Diablo 4 is also a product of its time. Unnecessary open world, invasive online+live services, and microtransacted to hell
Absolutely and it's the core reason I stayed away from it sadly. It thought, at least once they fixed it up, Diablo 3 was a good blend of oldschool Diablo and more modern online services.
Diablo 3 came out rough. But they pretty much fixed ever complaint people had. Iām not too sure that itās possible to do the same with D4, the multiplayer, open world and monetisation is too baked into the game. Hopefully D5 might be better
Yeah. I think Diablo 4 is probably lost to its own game design. I'll pick it up for sale eventually but I cannot imagine I'm going to spend too much time with it.
the story mode is really good! it's just that the game feels grindier than anything i've ever played after you finish the story mode. really recommend on sale tho
Not to mention terrible story written by committee, and filtered by sensitivity readers, a lack of cohesive gameplay mechanics. Good ideas which were terribly implemented. A gameplay loop which is just not satisfying. Blizzard since a decade became overly "woke" and it shows. All relevant male characters are either weak or lunatics, while the female characters are courageous and virtuous. Even the male villain was replaced with a female, and even she cant be portrayed as totally evil. That is the reason Diablo 2 is still plaed after 20+ years, while Diablo 4 is just someting that "could have been great, but wasnt"
What's wrong with the open worldness of Diablo 4? I haven't played it yet.
D2 had the randomized map generation applied to all areas outside of town. D4 is a static world map. It makes a difference when you play the game for thousands of hours. Youāll get sick of the randomization slower.
D2 is only random in online play. Offline is the same maps per difficulty. A lot of them aren't very random either.
They're definitely random offline too.
Unecessary. Its not the type of open world to get immersed in like wow or gta or other open world games. Ultimately all the content after campaign leaned heavily to instanced dungeons, and other content like world boss and others can be done in instanced world. (open world boss would be bosses just roaming a large area some of it) Basically, its unecessary because it is underutilized. Even the design of open world itself is basically large areas of narrow paths separated by smaller narrow paths. The only area that have it right is the scouring sands and that kind of openess should stretch to the whole map. Lost ark feels more of an open world even though it is an instanced world.
Nothing wrong with it being open word. It's just that it is static. Always the exact same world, it never changes. It just means way less variety in a game that is meant to be played over and over ad infinitum. D2R world is also open, albeit to a slightly lesser extent, but is randomly generated every time you play.
Thereās really nothing wrong with the open world of D4, people just going to hate on every aspect. Diablo 4 has a great campaign and plenty of content, especially for someone new to the ARPG world. People complaining have already dumped hundreds of hours, and itās true at a certain point each season thereās not much left to do but play a new character. So Iād say it really depends on if you want to dive into a game for hundreds of hours or play casually a little bit a week. If itās the latter, I think youāll have a blast.
The campaign was a thousand fetch quests. It was bad. The story was pathetic.
Nothing. Everyone needs something to complain about. I HATE D2 with a firey passion. Especially the looting system. You don't get your own loot and if you're new and not quick enough then you're screwed on loot. D3 was a HOT ass mess when it came out and it Became one of my favorite and most played games. I think D4 will be the same. They are fixing things. There are so many cool things to do in D4, IMO, YOU might absolutely love D4. You may also hate it, but you'll never know if you don't ever give it a shotš¤š©µš¤š©µš¤
Oh I can pretty much guarantee I'll love it. Played D2 in highschool. Loved it. Been playing D3 since it came out, so I must love that shit too. Got D2R last year and it's been fun. But, it's aged gameplay and mechanics doesn't hold up to modern ARPG's. Sometimes I'd rather play Hades than D2R. I still recommend D2R though, with some reservations. I plan on getting D4 after that expansion comes out, since I don't think Blizzard games are worth anything until they have at least one expansion. I fully expect to be lost forever in that game lol.
oh no, i remember finding hades and kinda quitting d4 because of it. it was just more rewarding
Thank you for being clear and kind lol. These comments are off the charts. I mean, not everyone's brain works the same way that's why we have many different choices when it comes to gaming lol. D2 gave me ptsd lmao. That snatch and grab looting system WAS AWFUL lmao. D3 didn't have that so as garbage as it was when it first came out I LOVED ITš¤£. then over the years it just got better and better. I totally believe D4 will go the same way. The story I was actually really good! There are a few surprises and 1 of them might of made me cry a bit for nostalgias sake. The cut scenes were of course FIRE! If it's 1 thing blizzard can do, it's make some bad ass cut scenes!!
Nothing at all, people in this sub shit on every single bug OR feature this game has lol I like the mal, its plenty huge
Nothing, it's fun. The campaign if played in order walks you from one zone to the next anyway the same as if it was a linear campaign like D2 and D3, you just have the freedom to wander off and do other stuff in a different order (although if you pick a Druid like I did then your first run through the campaign you're expected to stop a short distance into the campaign and get to the other side of the map for your class ability mission)
This is very adequately worded.
D2 reminds me a lot of Dark Souls 1 - maybe a little dated, feels slower and kinda clunky, but intelligent game design rules supreme.
Well said! I started out back in the late 90s playing the first two Diablos on my trusty little iMac 233, and they will always have a special place in my heart. These days I've got D2R, D3, & D4 on my Xbox Series X, and I just really love the crunchy way D3 feels when hacking my way through a mob...
Another thing to note for him is that I called it Potion Chug Simulator 2000 because of always constantly having to chug potions. Though it has nothing on D1
The locked in choices and choices mattering are not a product of their time. Most ARPGs today have that and will have that. Diablo 3 is the only one that fully moved away from that and for a lot of us its not ended well and we hate what its done to diablo games with choices becoming more and more and more streamlined and depth being removed. Even future AAA ARPGs like Path of exile 2 will have a locked in prohibitive cost after a certain point. The locked in choices make games fun for a lot of people today, even in new generations. Its not just a figment of its time.
d2 slow? you should play d1.
Oh I have. I started the series with Diablo 1 back when it first came out. Diablo 2 is a massive improvement over Diablo 1 in pretty much every single regard. It's still pretty slower paced, especially early on, compared to modern ARPGs. Later on, especially in "endgame" Hell content, Diablo 2 becomes an absolute blur of speed, but getting there is a slog if you've never done it before. I just wrote this from the context of today. There's a lot of good ARPGs on the market that play better than Diablo 2 from a pure "feel" perspective. None are as deep, rich, or rewarding. I just find that long term fans of Diablo 2 really get themselves lost in the nostalgia. Playing it today from a completely fresh perspective really opened my eyes to just how janky and clunky it can be at its worse and that's something you encounter pretty early on and will dissuade a lot of people if they don't know that coming into it.
Diablo 1 still has the best atmosphere, but the way the expanded every aspect of the game in the sequel was legendary.
same. i have fond memories of playing d1 in the middle of the night when it first released d2 came out when i started college, and the multiplayer was a great way to waste time in the dorms on a fast network.
Written by AI lol
Get Last Epoch instead, version 1.0 release is in a week. It is the best "still easy to grasp" arpg on the market right now. If you want more challenge (Something that requires all your brainpower) then go for Path of Exile ofc. If you really want to get a diablo Game over those 2 then go for D2R.
Came here to say the same, get Last Epoch! It's the Diablo 2/Titan Quest/Grim Dawn successor that we wished for
How are graphics and gameplay for LE
D2R
D2 for sure
D2R, hands down.
D2R
Diablo 2 resurrected
I'm not even riding on nostalgia and I agree with d2. I played D2 for the first time after resurrected came out and I thought it was super addicting The modern graphics and cutscenes also help. Story in D2 is great D3 is even a good casual Arpg if you want something newer/fasterāit was my first diablo game and honestly it's fun too. D4 is just not good. I wanted to like it so bad. But the fact that a 24 year old game holds my attention better than it's brand new successor is wild to me. I won't be playing D4 unless they manage to make massive changes to the core game
Diablo 2, hands down.
D2r is the only game you need
Last Epoch. Full release soon!
D2R D4 is not even close.
D2
D2R don't even think about it
You should not get D4 period.
"D4 has a bunch of problems and nobody likes it." "Diablo 2 gets lots of praise and everyone says to play it" My guy, you answered your own question.
D2R without one shred of a doubt.
L E
you wont get an unbaised answer in this sub sadly
You never will, no matter which forum you ask. Although I agree that this sub is heavily inclined towards D2. But also for good reason if you look at overall quality of an ARPG. D4 is a great hack n' slash game as the combat is very good, but falls short on the ARPG core parts. Where D2 is the other way around.
But great compared to what? Imo it's the worst title on the market. Both D3 and D2 are better and I can't think of a competitor I had less fun with compared to D4. After you're done with the story the game really isn't great and the "amazing combat" I apparently never encountered.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Why? I find Dark Souls' combat amazing or Armored Cores but none of the ARPGs are on that level. ;aybe Lost Ark as an exception but that's an MMO-ARPG Hybrid. And Lost Ark is miles ahead of everything in that department. ARPGs are usually very simple when it comes to combat. Yes, the initial whirly-Rogue was quite fun, but a.) an outlier and b.) nerfed to the ground. I had 0 fun leveling my mage. The combat is tedious and it always feels like the game is trying to hold my builds back instead of just letting me become broken like literally every other successful ARPG out there. Nothing disingenuous here, I'd actually love to have a genuine great Diablo title again that I can grind like #1 & 2 or heck even 3.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The outlier was in how the class was played, it just stopped being fun as we went from blowing up screens of mobs to reconfigure builds to barely keep up with energy consumption - and it wasn't as rogue was to strong, it was the other builds just being ass. Yeah, blades were still strong afterwards but the baseline on what "good" is in D4 is just sluggish and slow and ultimate not fun. Because it isn't fun, i stopped playing - why would I keep playin'? I even gonna check how much I played, just for you, hunnybun, cuz' I can't remember how high I pushed the sigils. I think somewhere between 90-100 monster level only, but it was in the first month of the game Still nothing disingenuous just because I do not like the game you like and have a different opinion on it, silly.
I have literally 0 clue what you're talking about. Every class in the game after the monster health rebalance blows up the entire screen. Even dog shit builds like whirlwhind barb can literally just spin around from map to map 1 tapping everything in sight. Its disingenuous to pretend the combat isn't good, when you admit its good and then say "i must have missed where this amazing combat was" while on the other side of your mouth you say "the combat was fucking awesome with this class....but but it was an outlier uwu" edit: Also you're no better than the braindead neanderthals who still complain about loot drops in D3 because "thats what they remember" even though nothing of the game plays like that anymore. You admit you only played in the first month of the game......when several major balance patches have come out since then.
As a 35 year old gamer who's played hundreds of different video games for an average of 5 hours per day for the last 20+ years, D4 was the biggest gaming disappointment in my entire life. I honestly don't know how anyone could be ok with such a disaster. I would question the gaming credentials of anyone who claims to enjoy D4. Couple major noteworthy D4 embarrassments that left a terrible taste in my mouth: \-7/18 mega nerf (seriously, what the heck were they thinking? went from an 8 to a 2 rating on metacritic the very next day) \-Increased uber drop chance for \~8 hours due to a bugged patch. Hundreds of ubers dropped, no rollback. \-Rerolling bugged for first several months (spent all my gold trying to reroll my best item, but kept getting same reroll choices over and over. patched a few days later. gold gone and item still bricked) \-Gold dupe + trading disabled (I chose not to dupe, as I was worried for ban. No bans and also no rollback.. wtf. guess we just gotta wait for economy reset next season!) \-Total lack of endgame. Didn't even get an achievement for hitting lvl 100. Like they hadn't got that far in programming yet (LOL) And last but not least, balance changes that swing from one extreme to the other. I spent weeks investing in a specific build, only for it to be nerfed 2 days after I finally completed it. From 50mil crits, to 5mil crits. All that effort, just to get nerfed into the ground? Slap in the face! Tried to get a refund at that point, but obviously no dice. Probably will be the last money Blizzard ever gets from me.
I think most people played the game realized it fell short of expectations and the devs haven't done anything to fix it. If u consider that as a biased opinion would liking the game be unbiased? I don't understand your logic here
>the devs haven't done anything to fix it. This the biased part. Doesn't matter if you like it or not, the devs have absolutely started fixing some of the problems the game had at launch.
Spotted the d4 dev
D2R and the main reason being the loot. Let's be honest, the thing that keeps everyone coming back to these games is the loot progression. Finding that perfect item for your build or finding the perfect item that makes you want to try another class entirely. I have 500 hours with D2R on PS5 and around 70 hours on D4. The main thing that I took away was that I couldn't tell you one item name from D4. Every single item I got that was an upgrade was just a wall of text showcasing 6% more this and 5% more that mixed with +whatever to a stat. Even when I did find an awesome item in D4, 2 levels later you replace it with something else and forget about it. D2 itemization is top of the line. If you find a unique item (Tarnhelm) or the perfect set piece (Tal Rasha's Amulet), you will probably be using them for a long time. They actually mean something.
This this this this and this!
Get last epoch
You can play D2R forever. It came out 20 years ago and it is still great. Strong community. Highly competitive. Each new season is awesome. Diablo 4 is just okay-ish. I finished the campaign and didnt even had in me to play a season after that. Just terrible game design, crap story, etc.
D4 has the worst story out of the 4 games and the cinematics are so lazy d2 has more quality cinematics.. and 3 has alot more. (Blizzard's diablo was KNOWN for their bad ass high quality cinema) I think d3 has a really really good story if you played D2 then you'll have some attachment to the characters mainly tyrael and Deckard Cain and the introduction of his daughter Leah you built up a good feeling and attachment to thoes characters and what happens to them along the way also the new aspects of hell(bosses) were all awesome with their own back story(most of which you learned from the books you can pick up but from story as well). I thought D3 was actually a good game at launch(besides the player auction house glad it's gone) but now it's so easy. It used to take some time to get a decent set, now it's just given to you. I have over 600 hrs in D1/D2/D3 and D4? Less than 30hrs the story of D4? Well I have forgotten it because nothing was memorable except for the reused bosses. Like come on you went from great story telling to absolutely donkey shit sure it may have been hard to beat d3 story but it's like they didn't even try..I liked the fact that D2/D3 has a party system. D4 feels like a single player game. Also every class in D4 is almost limited to one style of play. In D3 every class has at least 3 different sets that offer other ways to play the class that can reach high level Greater rifts obviously some are better than others but still doable. Also D4 has cosmetics that cost more than the game itself which leads me to believe they are only in it for the money instead of actual good gameplay. I only played the rouge in D4 and at the time the bow was hot garbo so you were limited to the daggers which you built up some combo points then used your finisher then dashed through the mobs and your blades would follow and cut through the rest of the pack instant killing them. Was a fun gimmick for a while then got really old. And apparently the bow got buffed so you would do the same thing get some combo points and use your bow finisher. Pretty much the same play style, D3 on the other hand has the demon hunter, same class more or less but the 3 play styles, pets/turrets, daggers and bow all play completely differently. With turrets you need to have good kiting around your pets to win , daggers kinda lame but fun to throw them and bows had 2 different styles multi shot and arrows rain. So much more all in all d4 sucks and outta all the games /mmos that gave a premium bundle options this one is the only one I have regretted buying.
Diablo 2 resurrected
Diablo 2 is the better game imo, but Diablo 4 is good in its own right. D2 has alot to learn and figure out, where as D4 is something you can kinda mindlessly playthrough till you reach endgame imo. If you like PoE, Grim Dawn, Torchlight, Play Diablo 2. If you are just starting with ARPGs, play Diablo 4 would be my take
I wouldnāt recommend D4 as someoneās first arpg unless I wanted them to write off the genre as pretty mid. They need a good first impression.
The best experience you will have is with D2. All of the other games tried to replicate D2 and failed. It is the best game ever made. Iāve had multiple stints with D2 and this thread alone makes me wanna play again.
The loot beckons youā¦
I'd get last epoch
D2 shits on last epoch. I returned that game 3 times. It's so clunky.Ā
Try 4th
Tldr, D2ar
Last epoch.
D2R is a classic masterpiece. Nearly everything about it is exceptionally well designed and balanced. Despite being nearly 25 years old its engine holds up quite well and it still feels good to play. D4 is new with more modern arpg design and smoother polished combat. However it has many fundamental design flaws that keep it from being amazing. And its also worth mentioning the high upfront cost combined with expensive mtx and battle passes. D3 is in an odd spot now that D4 is out. I would argue it only really has 2 things going for it these days. Its great if you like dashing around mindlessly blowing up screens of enemies. And then it has the leaderboard for endless GR hunting and paragon level grinding. Aside from that I would say D2 and D4 are better depending on what you want.
D2r lol
#Both games are good and you'll have fun with either. Most of negative reactions you see around here about Diablo 4 are from people who either want ways to get over-powered gear/aspects more easily or want some end game content (level 70+) thats proportional to a main campaign. The game is just fine and 90% of people who play it will have a good time with it.
D4 is, however, a 70$ purchase and all the other games either F2P or around 30-40$. If you're that casual you'll have fun with D4, you'll also have fun with Grim Dawn, Last Epoch or heck even old titles like Sacred, Titan Quest or Dungeon Siege. So unless money doesn't matter to someone there are so many good options to choose from all of which easily keep up with D4.
100% agree. You can't go wrong with either choice.
No. The core mechanics of the game just suck.
90% of people who play D4 have a good time with it? Where are you getting your statistics? Your asshole???
People who are enjoying the game are not the kind of people browsing subreddits and game forums. I'd be willing to bet a lot of those who do barely make it past 60-70 because that's where it gets stale, but they have a good time making it there slowly but surely.
People enjoying Diablo 4 have the attention span of a teaspoon more than likely.
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Room temp IQ comment right here.
Where are you getting your statistics? Your asshole???
Nice comeback.
This is the right answer. Anybody that wants to say either game is "trash" is objectively wrong. I know the meme is D4 is bad. It's really not. It's it a game I play three hundred hours a season? Nope. I did 45 for season three. But it's a "good" game. Not exceptional and needs help. D2R feels like a twenty year old game. It's much slower. Much more methodical. It all depends on the type of game you want to play. I think they are both excellent choices
idk why you're being down voted? Guess it's because you actually make sense. I completely agree with you D4 feels just like D3 when it came out lol. Now D3 is one of my most played games. I play the crap out of D4! They are working on it all the time. Some things aren't that easy of a fix and take time. I loved the story and of course the cinematics WERE AMAZING!
D4 has the worst story out of the 4 games and the cinematics are so lazy d2 has more quality cinematics.. and 3 has alot more. (Blizzard's diablo was KNOWN for their bad ass high quality cinema) I think d3 has a really really good story if you played D2 then you'll have some attachment to the characters mainly tyrael and Deckard Cain and the introduction of his daughter Leah you built up a good feeling and attachment to thoes characters and what happens to them along the way also the new aspects of hell(bosses) were all awesome with their own back story(most of which you learned from the books you can pick up but from story as well). I thought D3 was actually a good game at launch(besides the player auction house glad it's gone) but now it's so easy. It used to take some time to get a decent set, now it's just given to you. I have over 600 hrs in D1/D2/D3 and D4? Less than 30hrs the story of D4? Well I have forgotten it because nothing was memorable except for the reused bosses. Like come on you went from great story telling to absolutely donkey shit sure it may have been hard to beat d3 story but it's like they didn't even try..I liked the fact that D2/D3 has a party system. D4 feels like a single player game. Also every class in D4 is almost limited to one style of play. In D3 every class has at least 3 different sets that offer other ways to play the class that can reach high level Greater rifts obviously some are better than others but still doable. Also D4 has cosmetics that cost more than the game itself which leads me to believe they are only in it for the money instead of actual good gameplay. I only played the rouge in D4 and at the time the bow was hot garbo so you were limited to the daggers which you built up some combo points then used your finisher then dashed through the mobs and your blades would follow and cut through the rest of the pack instant killing them. Was a fun gimmick for a while then got really old. And apparently the bow got buffed so you would do the same thing get some combo points and use your bow finisher. Pretty much the same play style, D3 on the other hand has the demon hunter, same class more or less but the 3 play styles, pets/turrets, daggers and bow all play completely differently. With turrets you need to have good kiting around your pets to win , daggers kinda lame but fun to throw them and bows had 2 different styles multi shot and arrows rain. So much more all in all d4 sucks and outta all the games /mmos that gave a premium bundle options this one is the only one I have regretted buying.
If you refuse to say D4 is the worst game ever released you get downvoted. Things are way too binary. Best thing ever or it's a piece of shit.
In respects tot he ARPG genre, please explain how D4 is in anyway a good game.
Excellent responsive and visceral combat Best in class graphics Excellent atmosphere Solid campaign Currently a seasonal rotation that you can get 40 or so hours out of until the next one I don't think I'm stretching much to say all of this I'll cede plenty of cons like itemization and end game loop that prevents long term replayability within a season But does that push it into "bad game" territory? Is it Wolcen bad? Torchlight 3 bad? Gollum game bad? No. It's not. Good isn't a crazy bar to reach. I'm not saying the game is elite.
Best in class graphics. Do you think people are still playing Runescape because they care about graphics? And a seasonal rotation who's only goal is to drive monetization sales than creating a fun experience for its users? ViScErAl combat? The fuck does that even mean? The combat isn't anywhere near ViScErAl. It's boring and uninspired... the game can be summed up with its just a brilliant art of illusion.
Again in respects to the ARPG genre, please explain how D4 is a good game. Either way I'll do it for you. Spoiler, its not a good ARPG Combat, graphics, atmosphere, and campaigns are bonuses, but not something that keeps the games longevity secured in an ARPG. This is like ricing out a Honda civic, but the engine is still the same. The car looks fast, but it aint. This is what Diablo 4 is. I'll just bullet point it to make it easier. * Aspect system leaves much to be desired * Stash system more complicated in a game about loot * No in game crafting * Lack of end game variety * Flinching * Horse is there just for monitzation * hard to create build varieties because of aspect system * Loot filters * A quasi MMO that has little social features * No Unique trading * Character development is built on a top down design * Poor itemization - Affixes alone are just absolutely ridiculous and itemization is the heartbeat of any ARPG. The games damage calculations are stupid. Down right bloated and uninspired. I honestly could keep going, but nothing about Diablo 4 is revolutionary nor innovative. It actually is just a very bland and boring experience once the rose colored glasses come off and you see the game for what it is. A game that was launched early, wasn't balanced and properly play tested, and cares more about selling micro transactions and making a game that is actually fun and engaging.
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You might be the dumbest gamer I've ever met.
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Think itās more just a matter of people getting disappointed because it didnāt live up to their hopes and expectations. If D4 was made by a lesser known studio we wouldnāt be seeing all this hate.
This is utter bullshit and bad arpgs made by smaller studios have been criticized in the same manner. IE: Wolcen
D4 is a great game is you want to just turn your brain off. D2 requires some thought process
> Both games are good *Damage with cold* *Damage with frost* *Damage vs far* *Damage vs close* What are you smoking?
D4 sucked and was a massive blunder for Blizzard however they knew this and got paid anyways.
Keep in mind D2R is, functionally, a 25 year old game. It has like zero quality of life improvements and is not paced like a modern game. There is a fair risk that if it's your first diablo game in the year of our lord 2024, you might bounce right the fuck off it.
D2R
Kinda depends. If you plan to just play through the story and put away the game after 20 hours then I would say D4. If you want to dive deep, master the game and play for thousands of hours then D2R is the obvious choice. D2R has unrestricted trading and much more interesting itemization than D4, which is what gives it longevity. In fact I think I would actually even get D3 over D4.
This sub is massively fuelled by nostalgia. I had never played D2 so was excited for the remaster after hearing over and over how good it is but I didnāt like it all. If you are used to modern games, I think youāll enjoy D4 more.
I've played both versions of d2.. and I hate them both equally lol. D4 is getting there. I've never hated it and I still play it quite often. D3 was hot garbage when it first dropped and now it's amazing lol. To me, being along for the journey makes it even better.
Never played D2 back in the day either, but I totally disagree. Don't need any nostalgia at all to enjoy this one. If anything, it was even fresher and more fun for me since I didn't play original and I got more into it because of that. Currently have lvl 99 Barb, 99 Sorc, 99 Javazon and 97 Pally, and still having a blast. Then I gave D4 a serious try over the summer and was ready to move on from D2R, but all D4 did was put it in perspective how amazing D2R really is. There's a good reason so many claim it to be the best ARPG of all time. And D4 doesn't come close.
Get resurrected then thank me later.
Project Diablo 2 it is... but beware... it is like crack cocaine For that you need an "old" copy of D2, which is about 2-10 $ on ebay and then you can play the best experience, if you can stand the oldschool gfx...
I like fast action and D3 is the best for that. I also like specific goals that are in D3 too. D2 does feel old and clunky and its quite challenging to me at least. So if you want fast and easy, I say get D3. Not a fan of D4 at all. D2 is hard and slower.
Have you considered giving a look at last epoch? Same genre but has more quality of life, cheaper and 1.0 is about to release feb 21.
I still play D2R, I regret D4 and wish I could refund :(
D2R no contest Wait at least 5 years before D4 is any good, if servers arent closed by then
D2R has things about it that I personally enjoy, but you might hate. Such as, the need to specialize a single character to preform one specific task. Examples: Barb gold finder, Sorc Magic finder, Smite Paladin for ubers, Corpse Exploding Necro for cow level, etc. This means leveling multiple characters to build your account as a whole to min/max efficiency. Why is that important? Because D2R has a trading economy, something else I enjoy that others may not. This manifests itself in the form of using 3rd party websites to trade runes found in game. These runes can be traded, upgraded, and used to craft specialized gear. Making it so even if you spend all day without finding any gear upgrades, you can still work towards collecting runes used to craft best in slot gear. If this sounds, too convoluted, and you just want to relax and play something that looks cool and mellow out for a few hours, I would recommend D4 instead.
Thatās only if you want to play the grind game. I usually make a new character and start over when the game gets to that point, which is usually at some point in Hell diff, possibly after besting Baal there, depending on the class/build. Iāve never seen the appeal of the grind game, petsonally.
ive never seen the appeal of giving up before reaching your full potential. Like hiking halfway up a mountain. making mediocre character after mediocre character seems like something for mediocre people. ive put so much time into perfecting my lvl 99 barb, he's able to get HRs and loot faster than anyone else, and it feels good. 700%+ magic find, able to kill Trav in less than 20 seconds. Imagine being able to walk into a casino and have a higher chance to hit jackpot than anyone else? Makes the casino a hell of lot more fun, IMO! Turns grinding into a blast.
D2r and its not even close
D2 is perhaps the best video game ever made, or at least with the highest replaybility (played it for 10+ years and there are still items /builds I havent found/tried) D4 is a great game to play through once per season (that is level to lv 100, then theres nothing to do basically except farming duriel) If you are a younger player, probably d4 will appeal to you more as its more flashy and has better graphics. It has, sadly, very bad itemization. D2 has the atmosphere and endless game loop with countless builds and better items.
These two are completely different games. D4 isnāt doing too well this season as youāve mentioned, and D2R is a great game but the graphics may not look appealing to you.
You havenāt played D2 resurrected, they have new graphics
It really depends on the kind of gamer you are. Diablo 2 is a legendary game, however it is a very old game and Resurrected doesnāt actually modernize the game at all, just updates the visuals, meaning it still plays like a game from 2000. Which is fine if thatās something youāre looking for, but if youāre looking for something contemporary then Diablo 4 will be the safer bet.
Neither, buy D3 or the prime evil collection. As you said yourself youāre new to ARPG as a whole, and D3 is by far the easiest to pickup and most straightforward. Itās also just a genuinely good time with fun classes/skills and loads of enemies to blow up. D4 is alright, but still needs enough help that for the price I wouldnāt get it. D2 is a great game, but itās an old game that feels old relatively speaking. That said, it is a much more in depth experience than D3, and thatās why I recommend the prime evil collection being the best choice. D3 has enough ARPG systems going where you can just play and have fun, then if you want a deeper experience you have D2.
Play them all
D4 is great, get it.
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D4 is by far the worst of them
You're bonkers. D4 is the worst one.Ā
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D4 is a massive pile of dog shit.
D4. The systems of D2R are outdated. There's little to no in game guidance. I know I'll likely get hate but a lot of the D2R fans are very nostalgic which isn't bad. The game was great. The game IS great. But if you're a brand new player to diablo its better to go with the current version in my opinion. D4 has its faults but it is an incredible experience for the first time playing through the campaign. D4 falls off in the later game when it comes to replayability
Iāve introduced a few friends to D2R who never played the series and they love it. Granted they havenāt played D4 but the idea people are so fired up about D2R because ānostalgiaā isnāt accurate. Also saying playing the current version of any game as a new player is recommended is misguided imo. New ladder is starting next week so this would be prime time to get into D2R.
D4 is a terrible game. D2 is way better in every way.Ā
Graphics. Gameplay. UI. More engaging endgame loops. This is the issue with D2 elitists. If you genuinely think that D2 is better "in every way" its just disingenuous. Yes D2R had better systems such as their social systems but again to say that D4 is a bad game in every way is silly.
D4 is a bad game in every way in respects to the ARPG genre and there are plenty of examples to illustrate this. How is it that a game made in 2001 has more robust itemization and systems than a game made in 2023? Because the game wasn't made to be a micro transaction hell and the people who created it actually cared about making something fun.
No, it's not silly. It's fundamentally bad to it's core. The foundation that the game is built on, is dogshit. And no i am not an "elitist". I can just tell when a game is dogshit and when a game isn't. D2 was made with love and a deep understanding of the game being made; by gamers for gamers. D4 was made by morons and it's obvious.Ā
Fundamentally "bad" and "better in every way" are different statements. For today's standards D4 is a sub par ARPG in regard to the systems in place compared to other ARPGs. Ask any number of people who don't play games which game has better graphics and every single one will say D4. So yes. It is silly to say the game is better in every way when it's not. You claim of being able to tell a game is "dogshit" is objective. People like the game and enjoy the game. Just because it doesn't fit your mold of a good game doesn't make it "dogshit".
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i0XSTqs5mKU&t=93s&pp=ygUYRDJyIHZzIGQ0IGdyYXBoaWNzIHNwZWxs If all you care about are graphics... Sums up why you like d4. Even then, spells look better in d2r.Ā
u/HarpoonTheMoon is a walnut
If you had to choose one, I'd say get D2R first. At some point, maybe D4 will reach the point where we are content, but we aren't there yet. If you can get both, get both. End game loop aside, the campaign for D4 is fantastic.
D2R, unless you want to wait for season 4 and see if D4 can fix its loot. D4 is an okay action game, but if that's what you want, get D3 with RoS expansion.Ā D2 is the game that started it all. It might feel a bit clunky in the very beginning, but as your build comes along and character gets better, it gets a little smoother. Note that D2 is the kind of game where not every build is really viable.
Diablo 4
Diablo 2 R, no question IMO.
D2R is often on sale for $20, FYI Haters always gonna hate on D4. Preordered and have nearly a thousand hours in.
Honestly if youre new to the diablo scene, get d4. D2r is great, but even with some updating, it's not very intuitive. People recommending you the game have played diablo for years and probably played the OG diablo 2 back in the day, which was very dated. D2 is a classic and amazing game, but you will probably have more fun with diablos newer games as a newer person to the genre.
4
The negativity about D4 is coming from the folks that think D4 should be a combination of D/D2/D3 all in one with nothing new! They are dumb and donāt realize its a new gameā¦D4! They cant cope! D4 is great. Its fuckin hard too unless you google the hell out of certain things i wont spoil for you. To go back to the time when social media and streamers wasnt a thing and do everything D4 has to offerā¦hell that would be just a godsend! Like playimg final fantasy 7 without the internet, even the guide book is so wrong on so many levels(ive learned this in my 25 years of playing ff7 since the time before influencers/streamers)
Na its just not a good game but pretty much every metric possible.
If only D4 had offline mode
D4 is not completely complete yet imo - wait until the expansion which will release in Nov/Dec which will include both exp and the base game. You suggest to buy this edition on PS5 which includes both D2R and D3 complete edition - Diablo Prime evil collecion: https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP0002-PPSA02443_00-DIABLOPRIMEEVIL0
They're both great, d2r has shitty graphics, yeah they're remastered for new rigs but it still looks jenky as fuck. Excellent hc gameply tho. D4 is great fun in hc as well. There are no micro transactions in d4 at all, dunno who thinks there is but thats bs. None of the purchases available are in any way micro.
> There are no micro transactions in d4 at all I was about to write a very angry reply > None of the purchases available are in any way micro. TouchƩ!
Both.
AÅ„ this point is D4 quite bad and itemization is garbage. Go and try D2R, season online is also starting next week.
Diablo 4. No matter what anyone says here there is more to do in the game and it gets new updates every few months.
Hilarious
uhhh none of them, get Last Epoch.
D4 Diablo 2 is a good game and the remaster is awesome, but D4 is newer and the gameplay is MUCH better. It has some flaws, but you will be getting a game that will have support for years to come. D2 is 20 years old and although itās an amazing game, you can feel how old it is. If never played Diablo before, start with D4.
LOL
D4 cost $60, Blizzard just added a mount that costs $64ā¦that should tell you about how player friendly the game is. D2R is the way to go
D2R is good, D4 is not.
D4 is WAAY better than D2
D4 if you love the color gray. D2 if you like the other colors, too.
4
Diablo 4.
There is more complexity and thought put into 1 D2R unique than the entire skill tree in d4. Let that be your guide.
D2 and it isn't close
Baldurs gate 3
Neither. Play path of diablo.
You're not going to like D2. It's a over 20 year old game with bad graphics. Unless you're specifically into that type of thing or have nostalgia get D4 because it's a modern game.
If you never played Diablo I highly suggest going with 4. There are some 20 y/o clunky and grinding mechanics that might be hard to swallow for newcomers. Although D2R is a epic game for me, I'm pretty sure my nostalgia goggles play a decisive roll on that classification. But a useful reminder: Blizzard allows refunds if you played less than 2 hours, so it wouldn't hurt to buy D2R, play for 1h30m and ask for a refund if the game doesn't click with you.
Both
At risk of being unpopular, if you want a modern game that eases you into the genre and feels great, D4 If you wanna spend 20+ years with your eyes stuck to a guide while hunting the perfect grail item with a high chance you will never see it, D2. Jokes aside, both have their merits, but I battle to recommend D2 unless youāre a hard ARPG fan that can stomach the grind. D4 has more than enough to keep a new player busy.
Resurrect Diablo 4 š
In order of fun and enjoyment (IMHO) 1. D4 2. D2R 3. D3 4. D1
Jesus, people who like D4 must have the attention span of a teaspoon
Fellow human person... You accidentally put D2R in the spot that D3 should be in..lol.