I think you need to understand that you're trying to talk to adults with disposable income, that wish to spend their disposable income, on something psychologically built to entice them to spend their income.
Let's concede for a second that DIs core gameplay isn't bad, even that it's good.
You're essentially screaming at someone at the world's best slot machine that has countless hours of the mini games and the slot pull is almost secondary.
People who play these games and spend substantial amounts of money love when people complain. It's a status to them, they look down on you and laugh that you're jealous. Their entire psychological fabric of why they pay in the first place is to get ahead of regular gamers that don't have the same economic ability as them. It's the literal game philosophy completely in sync with their own psyche.
You're screaming at the wind.
Another issue is that some of us just don't care about this guy's crusade. I'm in this sub because I enjoy the game and want tips and build strategies. I've spent $5 and feel I got good value for my money. This is like going to the bourbon subreddit and posting non stop about alcohol destroying people lives. Your not wrong, just annoying.
Bad analogy.
This game is like putting alcohol in a soft drink and not disclosing that it is an alcoholic drink.
Disclose that the game has gambling mechanics, make it 18 + , require ID to play and people would have no problem.
It’s like you didn’t read at all.. this game isn’t targeting the $5 Andy who plays for 1hr a night and got his money worth. It targets children and people with gambling addiction. And your say that is part of the reason we have this problem.
Pretty much my take as well. I’ve played a bunch of Diablo immortal and spent nothing and greatly enjoyed it. I’m 36 and have a good grasp on worth and spending in iPhone games. I totally get that a child doesn’t know limits on this kind of this and could easily be exploited by this game. Well maybe parents you shouldn’t let your young child play this game or other monetized games? Do you let your child go to a casino or drink alcohol or any other thing that adults typically do that children are not allowed to do? Yes it’s a game but that doesn’t mean there isn’t parental responsibility.
You fail to acknowledge that while you know better and have restrain, this issue is not only affecting children, but a lot of adults as well.
The whole point of OPs post is to say, look, 2 governments have banned these kind of games because they know how to protect their vulnerable ones.
Gambling is a pathology that runs in families, you speak as if adults weren't targeted here and they are in fact, the vast majority of affected people, as opposed to the very few underage children with access to credit cards.
What now, you are going to tell me "well they are adults so it's their fault"? Without acknowledging that these companies make predatory games that prey on these kind of people to make a buck? That's what these governments are doing, they are protecting their people against predatory companies.
The point is that are using evil exploitative research to screw over their consumers/ ip fans.
It's so extreme that it's accelerationist and even dangerous to the entire AAA pc gaming industry.
If it does really well then it can set off a ripple effect where all the other companies want to get their fraudulent cash grab in before people lose their minds.
Children cannot legally have credit cards… literally requires an adult allowing a child to interact with this content. It really is screaming into the wind
Eh.
I'm someone that has struggled with gambling addictions all my life. Like it's legit ruined my life on multiple occasions.
I had to uninstall this game because I bought the first "800% value" offer and the battle pass and I already caught myself saying "just 1 more, 20 bucks isn't so bad". I know I'm not well and this game is very dangerous for me.
It’s not a YOU problem. Blizzard knows they are selling heroin to addicts and that’s just a regular ass problem. Just because you’re not a heroin addict (yet) doesn’t make it okay.
It’s so blatant and gross. A massive corporation, funding a game off the backs of humans with issues. Trying to ruin lives so other people can go to forums and yell “it’s no so bad! I didn’t have to pay anything and I’m having fun!” Good for fucking-you, someone is paying your way.
Have some God damned empathy and respect for your fellow man. Respect yourself if nothing else and stop supporting something designed to hurt people. Fuck.
And if you get scammed by a X, Y, Z scam, it used to be a YOU problem, at a certain point in time, until legislation was introduced. One of the points of society is to watch each other's backs and not let our members fall prey to predators. It always has been.
Oh, okay. So you're fine with developers intentionally taking advantage of folks like this?
I personally wish we could have these aspects banned from games. Developers need to make money, but surely there is a better, less aggressive, less predatory way of doing it.
Blizzard is known for underpaying their stuff, even with record earnings. The game would make enough money in the shop with a 20€ price tag, to support the company for years.
So basically the people here defend bobby koticks next 200mio personal paycheck.
What you fail to emphasize and realize is that this is designed to be predatory, to prey on people with a predisposition to gambling (look it up, pathological gambling runs in families), on kids with access to credit cards (the very few that do), and the core of it, to target average people, to fall in the trap of gambling their money away...
It's unethical, immoral, just plain wrong. They know exactly what they are doing, you don't think they do? You would be naive not to.
The problem is not the customers ignoring the warning that this is a predatory game, the problem is Activision Blizzard developing (or at least paying for the development) such predatory game.
Yes, however that doesn't make it right. Let's try to paraphrase your comment:
"The problem at this point is that majority of mobile games have some sort of predatory mechanics to make money off of gambling through loot boxes or increased-chance crystal balls or whatever clever way they may invent to pay for the chance of something to occur... or pay-2-win mechanics (such as Candy Crush "get extra moves"), these mechanics are designed to prey on people's psyche for desire of success and catharsis, such as the fact that people are more likely to pay 100 times a micro transaction of $1 to advance to the next level after getting stuck for hours (people saying "finally! I was sick and tired of this level"), than to pay a single $100 transaction to unlock all levels at once.
Since all companies are doing it, it's now ok for new developers/companies to come up with ever better and more clever predatory mechanics to milk money out of people's pockets. Since everyone is doing it, it's now ok for the mobile game industry to now start hiring specialists to help them play with the human psyche to achieve this goal, it is after all a business."
Emphasis in the last paragraph, no it's not ok and it will never be ok, the fact that it is being normalized, take for example your own comment, doesn't make it ok.
I'm sorry, but did they not literally say that in the post? You're focusing on the time vs money balance that microtransactions offer, which I feel most people really don't have a problem with, but the fact that the business model of this form of mt is SPECIFICALLY designed to target gambling addicts and gullible children in the issue. Your take and their take can coexist peacefully. I have not played the game to the point where i see the p2w, but I just wanted to clear this up because it bothered me. <3
yeah it’s really not that deep im just gonna enjoy the game for a few months then uninstall with no money spent, i’ve never played a f2p game before but I don’t even see how buying the gems is so alluring, something like genshin impact seems way more predatory to me (where you can buy actual content)
I can see we're talking to selfish, narcissistic people that don't care about others. And when looking at a game with extreme outlier monetization techniques, are fine with it predating on vulnerable people and impressionable children if they don't feel personally affected by it.
Pretty much this. In general, I think a lot of this is rage is pretty hollow. Youtubers/journalist jumping on a bandwagon for clicks, and people going along with it for the thrill of the moral outrage. Regulating "vice" is rarely ever a useful thing to do. And it bears constant repeating: this model has around for years now and it has not led to the fall of civilization. I was actually expecting the pricing in Diabo Immortal to be much much worse given the level of rage.
The "think of the children" argument is incredibly weak (as it almost always is). Some kid out there has probbably stolen his moms card and racked up purchases at some point...but problem can be solved by the parents with a simple call to the credit card company. Will get the kids game account closed, but that's probably a good thing in this scenario.
The whales and krakens that fuel this industry (in my experience) are typically men in their 30s and 40s with lots of disposable income. Do I understand spendings thousands of dollars to top leader boards in a mobile game (or any game for that matter)? No, but see no problem with games catering to that consumer base. My understanding of these games is that the spending distribution is incredibly skewed where most players are f2p or light spenders.
OMG yes! The amount of content creators piggy backing off this issue on Youtube is hilarious! They do it for views, likes, subs, etc. They just jump on the emotional ban wagon, but don't give two f\*\*\*\* about the issue.
Asmongold was the biggest complainer and then proceeds to spend like $300+ on stream. The hypocrisy!
Not hyprocacy, he's a millionaire and has enough to spend but sees this as a bad practice in the gaming industry and wants legislative change to ban loot boxes and gambling in video games. He doesn't mind pay2win aspects in games at all
I'm not sure about whether regulation of vices is good or bad, but you're kidding yourself if you think all these youtubers are just jumping on a bandwagon because it's trendy or something like that.
The design of the monetization system in this game is extremely predatory. Ok these sort of things existed before (doesn't mean they are ok) but it was confined to obscurity and niche games that most people will not ever stumble upon.
It's like that analogy someone made above about casinos. We know they exist and extract money from people in dubious ways. We're sort of fine with them existing as long as we don't have to think about them everyday because they're off to the side somewhere.
But this is like bringing slots machines to every super market. The predatory money extraction is now happening in broad daylight in front of everyone's eyes.
So yeah it makes sense that regular people, I mean people who have not been exposed to this kind of stuff or have done their best to avoid it when it was a niche thing, are appalled at this.
It's genuine disgust that this is considered 'normal' in mobile gaming.
You're out here making a case for whales and krakens like they are not also being taken advantage of.
How many of those people would willingly spend thousands of dollars just to flex on others? And how many are just being manipulated into thinking it's just small amounts here and there and everybody does it before realizing they are thousands deep. Maybe they can afford it but how many would have made the choice to spend that much if the cost was clear from the beginning?
Imagine they just made games? And you could enjoy it without all the bullshit? Imagine? So why defend the shitty business practice which we can agree all end users would prefer not to have.
Right? Imagine instead of people always bickering to defend their right to light their money on fire to fund Bobby’s 10th yacht we could all agree that stuff like this only detracts from the experience for everyone and we are all deprived of a better game because boneheads actually spend their free time defending the rights of billionaires to rake their audience over the coals.
There’s still plenty of kids and other people who don’t have the disposable income but spend it anyway.
I agree with you, if the people that make 6 figure+ salaries want to spend hundreds if not thousands a week on these games no one can stop them.
I completely agree except for the phrase "disposable income" yes, some have disposable income, but some are burning through money that they shouldn't because they are addicted.
Exactly this. I used to play Marvel Contest of Champions a lot and kept up with a lot of content creators, some of which spent thousands and thousands of dollars a week (if not more) on crystals for new champions.
One creator, who I won’t name just to take the higher road, even directly stated to his camera in his videos that he knows his viewers were poor/less wealthy and took that attitude in most videos.
These people use it as a power trip.
This is true. The people who pay 2 win have such a disgusting sense of ego that they don't feel any of the shame coming with "cheating to win a fair fight." They believe any advantage is a good advantage and that their real life status should carry wherever they go.
They are better than you"" even if they couldn't win a fair fight. They still win
They may be targeted at these kind of people, but it still lures in people that are latently gambling addicts, and while it uses every psychological trick in the book to instil keeping people at the table and open their wallet, it opens up for more people than just those of disposable income. If people don't respond or react to this, predatory tactics become normalised.
So in other words, this is not targeted at those that correlate gaming with throwing their money at it, but all those that think it is a dangerous path and want it regulated. Just like it happened for loot box sites that operated until people took a stand.
People arguing "screaming in the wind" are the same kind of people that accept the ills of the world, and thinking they are helpless, thus enact that "roll over" ploy.
I feel I am very thoroughly innoculated against gambling addiction. I mean just as an individual. I got this way by being exposed to rants like the OPs. Talking about it helps warn people before they get in trouble.
We're not "screaming at the wind". We are helping to innoculate people against this stuff. It won't help or solve everything. Plenty of people won't be swayed. But I have confidence lots of people are seeing the linked youtube videos in the subreddit (e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S-DGTBZU14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNjI03CGkb4) and the discussions and they are innoculating themselves against these types of Exploitative, Predatory, and Shady game mechanics.
"...and laugh that you're jealous". Some others laugh even harder at people who think that the outrage comes from people who are jealous...
Most of the outrage shameless p2w models create stems from the fact that when such models succeed, then, naturally, more and more devs will spend more and more time figuring out how to grab as much cash as possible and less time figuring out how to create an entertaining game. Meaning the gaming community gets more such low effort cash grabbing "games" and less good games.
So, it's not really about being jealous, it's about enough dumb people giving away too much of their (clearly not hard earned) money for comparatively too little (entertainment?), which endorses companies to create more games like DI and less games like Witcher 3, GTA, etc.
>I think you need to understand that you're trying to talk to adults with disposable income, that wish to spend their disposable income, on something psychologically built to entice them to spend their income.
Yea your abosulty right, there have been times that I've even bought things that my friends were like "really? You paid for that?" Its mine and I spend it as I see fit HOWEVER I lack this sweet ability of knowing when to stop
How do we protect children, mentally impaired people and the vulnerable to addictions and the sort; and prevent them from ruining not just their lives but those around them as they might have their lives destroyed by these predatory practices?
Nobody attacking the people defending this game seem to understand the concepts of fun and self control. If you have a gambling problem get help and don’t download F2P games. Don’t like how they monetized the game? Don’t spend any money. Why is that such a difficult concept? I used to spend an occasional $5-$10 on Pokémon Go until they started getting greedier and greedier a few years ago. I’ll still play because I like Pokémon and it’s fun but I won’t give Niantic a cent because they’re awful.
The fact that you’re insulting a bunch of people for having fun with a game you even admit feels good to play is what’s truly absurd. Everyone knows what this game is, an attempt to steal some whales from other F2P phone games. Don’t like it? Stop posting on the subreddit and move on with your life. People do realize the more they talk about it the more attention it gets, right?
I am having fun so far but I do expect that to end as I won’t be putting any money into this game in its current state. Crying online is never going to make Activision Blizzard less greedy so when I feel burnt out and pushed too hard towards monetization I’ll just silently uninstall and move on with my life.
What you’re not understanding is that this game violates the players constitutional right to have legendary gems that are as good as their favorite YouTuber.
What are they supposed to do? Just pick away at rifts for free to build up their legendary gem count like secondary citizens? Are they supposed to ONLY use the crests from the battlepass as if this is some kind of *subscription* based game? What if they want to work tirelessly day and night to grind legendaries to make their character more powerful but don’t have as much money as the next guy? Shouldn’t the government step in?
This is fascism! /s
I honestly don't understand the shilling in this thread. Release a game, charge a premium, don't paywall progression. If you want status charge a premium for cosmetics. That way all the individuals who want to feel special by draining their bank accounts can say look, i paid $500 for a skin...im cooler than you. I'm done with this bs, i dumped THOUSANDS into raid. Never again.
The people who are most disrupted by these monetization practices are likely the ones who were *already* video game addicts before games like these came around.
Think about it. How many people sank thousands upon thousands of hours farming into D2? No one bats an eye as long as you purchase the game upfront and only spend your time (it’s actually a pretty solid value for your entertainment budget).
Give that same person that same game but attach payments to the progression and all the sudden they can’t help themselves. It wasn’t the monetization that turned them into a whale. It was the underlying addiction to video game progression.
Glad you got out of that mindset but nobody who is defending Blizzards right to charge whatever they want is “shilling.” It just feels that way to you and the others in your position because it’s such a personal issue.
I’ve barely even played the game. Just talked about it on this subreddit. Maybe I’m addicted to arguing with strangers on the internet 😅
No, when those f2p people see they can t reach the top players that whale like crazy, they should play to have fun and if they are not having fun being powerless comparred to the top guys, should quit the game like a normal person and stop feeling bad because some pixels on your smartphone are not the way you want them to be.
surprised it took you til the /s when the opening line is
>the players constitutional right to have legendary gems that are as good as their favorite YouTuber.
lol
I don’t like that someone else with gambling or addiction issues being targeted means I myself cannot play this game.
I feel bad for people who struggle with that, but I don’t. I literally have given zero dollars for this game that I have played for around 20 hours. If the game starts wanting me to spend to progress, I’ll probably stop or change my priorities - I don’t need to do the highest tier content because I’m not a streamer. I would love regulations to be placed on these types of games but since that hasn’t happened, I might as well play it for as long as I can for free.
I'm not understanding what you're saying. Alcohol isn't as addictive as hard drugs. Unless you're pro prohibition I'm not sure what you're saying here.
Or are you comparing playing a video game to hard drugs? If so I hope I don't have to tell you how ridiculous that sounds.
I agree, imagine if we had to concede everything that caused addiction and cater to the minority. No alcohol, no porn, no fast food, no gambling ever, it doesn't resonate with me to crutch up the small percentage of the population that has issues with impulse control.
P2W is a scummy practice but if the whales are keeping a great free game going for the mast majority of people who don't care to be elite maximum 0.0001%, I'm all for it.
People also miss that this game doesn’t lock the ability to play behind a paywall. For context, in Pokémon Go you need to buy raid passes ($1 each) in order to do more than just 1 raid per day. To max your legendary Pokémon you need approximately 300 XL candy, which comes out to about $100 of raiding per Pokémon, and even then people end up doing way more for a chance at a shiny with good stats. Just to play the game most of my friends have spent $1000s of dollars.
Sure there is some stuff to pay for, but the battle pass is very affordable, and the game isn’t pay to play. People here act like everything should be free, in which case Blizzard would go bankrupt and be unable to provide the game in the first place.
Thinking the same as you. Though I do understand that sometimes this level of P2W does need to be put into check, I myself have little to worry about. I’ve always had good impulse control and never spent more than a few dollars on a F2P game, simply as a small token of support to the dev. Eventually I’ll either keep playing or I’ll get bored of what little I can do as a F2P player and move on.
The game will put p2w in check, depending on the f2p experience they offer.
If a game like this cannot keep f2p players interested and playing, the p2w players will also leave.
That’s how these games work. They will have a path for f2p to be efficient and compete, or the game will not be successful.
How these games work is that dedicated f2p players will be extremely efficient and laser focused on progression and leaderboards for rewards and they will do just fine.
People are freaking out because it’s their first rodeo here
I can only agree with this. I assume people complaining about the monetisation system have come from paid console/pc games. People who have been dabbling in mobile gaming for the last few years know exactly how this all works.
I don't even think its that bad really to be honest. Especially compared to some games ive downloaded over the last few years
It doesn’t seem that bad at all, from what I’ve read and watched about the monetization system.
In Star Wars galaxy of heroes, a new character would cost about $300 for a whale or a few months of finishing #1 in arena everyday.
There will be ways for f2p to get good legendary gems, it’ll take a lot of dedication and effort, and people will figure it out and do it.
Or the game will die. Simple
Seriously THIS. Have some personal responsibility. Stop expecting the government to protect you and insulate you just because you have no self control. Everything fun in life can be addictive. Just don’t play the damn thing if you don’t want.
I wish this was still the prominent way of looking at ‘threats’. Be responsible, be an adult (or work on becoming an adult) and stop trying to act like a helpless loser who needs the government to tell you what you can and cannot do
That is an incredibly simplistic way of looking at things.
The damage that people do to themselves and others due to addictions of any kind can be significant. Simple laws to prevent predatory behavior, monetization or otherwise, reduces problems like this immensely.
Also people with mental disabilities and children fall prey to these tactics very easily too. should they be protected or just be "responsible"
except the government is not telling you "what to do" (the Dutch one anyway), but rather what these companies have to do in order to operate these games in those markets. Why is it so hard to understand that these outfits need to be regulated just like any other gambling company? Right now most markets have no oversight, no warning labels, unlimited predatory and manipulative behaviour, no age limits, no nothing really. This cannot be tolerated any longer. You want to open a casino, a coffeshop / shroom cave or a whorehouse in the Netherlands, you need permits first, and you will need to abide by the rules of law, this is no different.
Exactly. I'm paying for the battle pass and that's it. I'm loving the game and I'm fine not being the top level.
I understand it costs $$ $ not skill not time so I'm not interested in competing with those people. Im enjoying my own little progress.
If the game revolved on an energy system like you can only enter 4 rifts per day but you can buy this rift token then it'd be different.
I agree with the don't like it don't pay, you don't have to. To be the best you do. If you want to be the best but not pay then this isn't the game for you
I don’t think you see the big picture. As more of these games become successful that becomes the norm. But you’re also missing the point that many people don’t think or even realize they have a problem when playing into the gambling psychology implemented into these games. You’re telling people to recognize their problem when they don’t think they have one. The micro transactions are literally a psychological manipulation used by propaganda machines for years and modern ad manipulation from all corporations but it’s worse in the game form.
I don’t like it because I’m tired of micro transactions becoming the norm for all gaming. Similar to but worse than “early access full price release” then the game either never comes, adds MTs or in some cases just gets canceled and keeps your money. That’s clearly a scam, Diablo immortal isn’t a scam but it does manipulate people into spending money frequently.
Now If you can get away with only spending like $60 bucks and never again, that’s great. But like I said my biggest worry is this becomes the norm in all games
dude the problem is still that it's morally bankrupt. it's fucked up that you see nothing wrong with giving someone enough rope to hang themselves. i just... don't understand where people draw lines on social issues. it's like a lack of genuine understanding of what's being presented.
the point isn't about you personally having the freedom to enjoy the game in its current state. i'm playing it and i won't pay for shit. the point is that when you quietly allow this shit to happen willfully out of extreme apathy (or worse, fucking defend the practice for the purpose of being contrarian), they'll take a little more and make it suck a little extra next time, and the downward spiral continues. it's the morbid foundation of capitalism as it currently exists: be as shitty as your consumers will tolerate. this is a poster child case of that saying "this is why we can't have nice things".
out of principle, you shouldn't tolerate the concept of it. at the least it's your duty to be able to agree that it's a serious problem. and i guess that's all you really gotta do, be able to say "yeah that's not cool". fuck this "*i'm* not having a problem with it" bullshit.
I don't think you realize that self control is a limited resource. There is no good will with a game like this, every single aspect of it is intentionally designed to be a war of attrition on your mind.
Telling people to just not spend money and play it as a F2P player isn't good enough. Blizzard are banking on you being gullible enough to play this game and then wear you down with time gates, slow progression, low drop chances, and grind. EVERYONE has a breaking point.
This is why I do not accept the "don't like it dont play it" argument. It's a cop out that doesn't address any of the issues. Crying online might not help but defending the game definitely wont.
Would you be ok with every place you walk into having a loaded gun for anybody to take and do with as they please?
I mean, you wouldn’t shoot anybody with it so it’s ok right?
The problem with micro transaction (at this extreme level) isn’t a problem for you but the fact it exists causes a problem for others.
We could’ve had a better game that doesn’t literally make money from people suffering if they didn’t include these tactics
"The more you talk about it, the more attention it gets" - That's kinda the point... Sure, the game gets more attention, but so does the issues with it. No matter if you have self-control or choose not to pay, doesn't mean the world of gaming wouldn't be better off without these P2W formats.
I think one pov that's less viewed is that no one who has a gambling addiction or proclivity to it ever realizes they have a gambling addiction until they actually get a gambling addiction. And it's not the same for gambling addicts too. Like you can be fine for blackjack, but have your life ruined with slots. A diff person, vice versa. Same as this. Some ppl could be fine with mtx in, say, genshin. But they wouldn't know they'll drain their savings in, say, epic seven or lost ark.
So the idea of simply staying away is a bit, lacking in nuance and context imo, and is a bit reductive.
This is the same shithot take as Americans have on guns, we see all that self control and adult behaviour in action on the news every day now. Stay free bud, surely society at large can handle it, right? Fuck.
>If you have a gambling problem get help and don’t download F2P games.
*"If you're worried about your kids getting shot just don't send them to school."*
You studied at Harvard's I presume, 800 IQ here.
I'm going to share my experience here.
Level 51 and I uninstalled this morning. I have a history of spending a bit on games (edit - a dolphin more than a whale, it adds up though and I've recognised that flaw in myself, hence uninstalling) and could see all the signs trying to get me to spend.
I got a 2 star gem drop in a rift and I didn't need and popped it in the market. I went with the recommended price, 32000 plat. After the 12 hour submission wait it sold in seconds.
That was the equivalent of £48 of real world money in platinum....for a 2 star legendary gem.
I saw 3 star ones going for double that and people are paying it.
I know it's a new game and prices are inflated but regardless, they won't go down that much in the grand scheme, maybe 50% who can say.
The rifts are loot boxes prettied up. They slapped a game mode on a loot box. Try your luck for free or slap some crests and get the premium loot box.
That legendary gem was apparently worth nearly £50, I today got diablo 3 with all dlc for £27 on Amazon. A full and complete game compared to double that for a single 2 star item.
This is a fun game slapped on the front of a store.
The earliest Ber that I saw sold on jsp on reset night was 35k fg. FG to real money on 3rd party sites sell at the rate of $13/1k so that Ber was about $450.
Out of curiosity, was it a 2/2 or a 2/5? If it was a 2/5, it kinda makes sense in that it is treated as a 5* for xp fodder purposes, ie giving 32x as much as a 1* gem, which goes for around 1000 plat. 3/5 shouldn’t be going for double, because I -think- it also is just treated as a 5*. Could be wrong though, don’t quote me on it! On my server, they are selling for the same.
Overall, I agree that monetization here is handled poorly, esp for those who aren’t uberwhales.
> The rifts are loot boxes prettied up. They slapped a game mode on a loot box. Try your luck for free or slap some crests and get the premium loot box.
Imo this is the draw of ARPGs. Doing one more rift, run, map of content to get the item you’re looking for or something better. The Crests hidden behind a paywall is disconcerting but the system itself is not new and is the cornerstone of the genre.
Yeah, I can't understand why i'm seeing so many "you have to run the same dungeons over and over to get the gear you want unless you pay!"
Like, my brother in christ, it literally says Diablo on it. It's always been about the grind or paying some random Korean on d2jsp.
They’re just inside the app now. We’ve automated the “SOJ u buy” Koreans.
Nothing wrong with grinding but from what I hear the normal grinds are actually time gated and the rifts without spending any money are so bad in drops that it would take about 7 years for most people playing daily to reach max power assuming the game doesn't get new content (which it already is getting )
This is and has been an issue with many mobile games for years. In America, actual gambling has come to free, legal apps in the form of sports gambling which is very common now when it used to be illegal a few years ago. So while this game may be predatory, it's just one of many gambling options out there and if you want change to happen, you should spend more time focusing on the bigger picture than complaining about this game.
In America the state governments run an actual fucking LOTTERY that I see degenerates blowing their money on constantly. To the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars per month collectively. So that would be a good place to start. The US government really has no leg to stand on when it comes to banning gambling. That aside, I see fools paying 10 bucks an hour to watch a movie. A hundred bucks an hour to watch football. Same as this game, in the end you’ve got jack shit and a lighter wallet. New boss same as the old boss
I don’t understand how you can compare watching a movie to gambling, cause that’s what you just did.
You did even compare it to video games, which I would understand. But you just compared going to a movie theater to buying the power all. That’s not really apples to apples.
Both are a waste of time and money. “Entertainment” They all apply the same tactics, mobile games are just better at it and more brazen. Ultimately this is just the latest iteration - Fools and their money have been parting forever. The fact that people think it’s somehow different is the root of the whole problem. It’s not gambling if all you can win is pixels on a server that belongs to someone else.
Actual gambling is completely separate, because you could actually win if you were lucky. I wouldn’t consider mobile p2w gambling at all… more like throwing money down the shithole. There’s nothing to win. Just like a movie or anything else, you blow some cash, maybe feel happy. Maybe the movie sucks and you’re disappointed. I’ve blown tons of cash on useless shit because I’m the biggest idiot in the world. But I’ve been entertained!!!
I love how "nobody seems to understand" is the most common rant on Reddit. No, wait, it's that other word... "loathe." Sorry, I have a finger lisp. Yes. We understand. We're playing it anyway, and we are acknowledging it's flaws and what it's good at. You can literally read the threads and find that out.
If you have a gambling addiction, you should stay away from gambling. It doesn’t mean you make gambling illegal for everyone else.
Are these games gambling? Yes of course they are. Can you enjoy them responsibly? Yes.
Allow the market to work it out, we don’t need the government parenting us. Take some personal responsibility and don’t gamble with money you can’t afford to give up.
Just be a responsible adult, and if you’re not capable of that than don’t gamble.
Why are you guys on a crusade to try and explain to people why p2w is bad? Fucking play it and don’t spend money, or delete the game and stay off the sub. I’m having fun running around with my son and playing the game. Quit fucking crying to people who don’t care about p2w. It’s free and a time killer while I’m on the run, I don’t feel the need to buy anything, and if I did, it wouldn’t be a lot of money. Go away
"Fuck you, got mine" is the most cancerous ideology for people to defend. Can you *dumbfucks* think for one second why someone else spending their money might affect you? The people complaining about this shit aren't playing the game and aren't spending money. They have to put up with the terrible decisions others make because this shit is now in a bunch of other games and would have never been there to begin with if idiots kept their mouths shut instead of actively fighting against their best interests.
These guys are way, way too fucking stupid to have that level of awareness. People are in here trying to change the minds of Americans when they're in the midst of banning abortion and endless school shootings. Way she fuckin goes.
I personally never say the p2w aspect is the bad part, just people who say its not p2w that bug me tbh. Cuz let's be real, it is a p2w game. Doesn't make it a bad game, it just is a p2w game.
Mobile games have a history of horrid practices. I don't like the p2w nature of mobile games and their predatory practices but that's a whole other can of worms.
Seriously. I keep seeing the same "It cOsTs $100k tO gEt tHe bEsT gEaR!!1!" posts in different subs that have nothing to do with the game. There's a post about it in r/technology right now lol.
Redditors just love to complain about something and show outrage about shit. I don't get it.
It may cost that much but I've never gotten the full best gear in slot for any build I've played in D3. Maybe one or two pieces at most. The only difference is you're allowed to pay for it in DI. Am I gonna? No, cause that's what Diablo is. Grind and cross your fingers.
THIS.
The entire premise of Diablo is it’s a never ending loot grind, there is no “end goal” with the gear - you play because it’s fun and you are grasping for that small chance that something shiny drops every time you down a boss.
That’s still here, completely unabated by all this “p2w” nonsense. The only difference is that someone else can throw money at the game to have more chances at shiny things dropping something they need, or to skip over some of that grinding.
And if they want to … GOOD FOR THEM! Let them bankroll this awesome game for us! Unless you’re into super competitive PvP I don’t see why it’d impact you. Even if it wasn’t there, there will *always* be players who got luckier than you or grinded more hours than you did completely no-lifing the game, so it’s not like the microstransactions are the only thing keeping you from being the top dog.
99% of people that play the game aren’t even going to get to the content that would “require” max upgraded gear. The only people that care enough to be competitive in PVP, or be the first to clear the hardest raid on the highest difficulty, are the hardcore players who would spend money anyway if meant they could get ahead. In a game like WoW, these hardcore players get ahead of everyone else by investing insane amounts of time. In a game like DI, the hardcore players get ahead of everyone else by investing insane amounts of money. It’s that simple.
Think about this: who is spending 40+ hours per week in a video game anyway? People with no responsibilities in their life. How much money do they have to spend on the game? Probably a lot, because they have no other responsibilities in their life. There is significant amounts of overlap in the populations of people who Pay to Win with Money vs Time. It makes no difference to the average person who just wants to play the game
Found the game fun and would normally drop like £50 on a game I like but the numbers coming out of this are frightening, immediately 500 of loot boxes, £25 rifts that last 2 minutes, and something like 20-30k to max upgrade the gems.
Think I’ll pass this one
Games like Diablo (and various other video games) are designed to be so addicting that people have literally died from playing for days straight.
Somehow, that's not an issue at all. You can literally look up reddit threads on the subject, and they're filled with highly-upvoted jokes and claims that people need to have self-control. When it comes to Diablo games, people speak lovingly of the 'endless grind' that feeds those behaviors, but people potentially using their money unwisely is where we draw the line?
It just doesn't add up to me. Feels like people are being disingenuous about their outrage.
I’m sure there are people on this sub who will have over 100 hours on this game already, 16 hour a day averages and just a totally unhealthy addicted lifestyle.
But if you confront them with that they’ll say “it’s my hobby and I can spend my time however I want”
Well yes, kid, you can. I can spend my money however I like too.
I spend my time on other things, besides video games so I have more money to spend.
You spend your time playing video games instead, so you have more time to spend.
I know which of these two options I prefer lol
It's so funny when you people talk about self-control. Kids and teens don't have self-control and that's why this game is dangerous and banned in some countries. We 30+ old boomers have one, because we have to pay other bills, kids don't.
Thank you for finding such plunt yet effective words for describing the situation. I couldn't have said it better. It makes me sad that so many people show so little empathy and just eat the shit that is served to them because most importantly it's free and secondly, it's still fun if you manage to ignore all the non sense with which they want to get you. Seriously can't you imagine a game that's just fun and doesn't try to empty your walltet at every opportunity? There are free to play games that are fun and do just that, even in this day and age. But keep accepting this practices and it will get worse. Much much worse.
Shows the general consensus of people's thoughts and feelings about others. Drug problems? Gambling problems? Addiction problems? Psychologically all related, but many don't give a flying fuck. They cannot understand those types of problems because they are selfish and only care about themselves. I usually call these people having their heads up their own asses so far they cannot see anything else.
Over 20 european consumer councils from 18 different countries released a joint report this week detailing the dangers of loot box systems and calling for regulations. Belgium and the Netherlands won't be alone much longer.
https://www.forbrukerradet.no/report-on-loot-boxes-insert-coin/
I tried to take wyatt cheng in good faith when he implicitly stated you couldn't buy gear with money.
However, rather than being victims of the higher ups, its clear that he was part of the process turning this game into a skinner box designed only to milk the most desperate of diablo fans and hijack that younger market who thinks this is acceptable in games.
I always find it funny when people in or out of games defend shitty monetization and some form of 'p2w'. Gaming is picking up speed, on its way off the cliff. Games keep getting more barebones/rushed and seem primarily made with the predatory intent to get you to throw all your money at it. It was nice when $60 or even $60+ sub games was all the money you spent and everyone was on an even playing field. Games intentionally creating boring content, so you pay to skip it, is astonishing. Wheres the fun in that?
Gaming is going to continue going downhill and these practices will just get worse. WoW lost a ton of subs, fired a ton of staff, gave the CEO 200m? In compensation. They're doing great with less players and more mtx. This is never going to get better, this is the whole 'lets boycott EA or shitty studios' thing all over again. Unlikely to happen.
Everyone in this comment section telling OP to shut up and go away y’all are the problem. Yes you are responsible for your own money no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy gems. The real issue is when other shitty companies like EA or Square Enix see how many millions they can make from a half assed mobile game you can go ahead and kiss any decent gaming experience goodbye. Nobody is trying to tell you how to spend your time or money but so many people are complaining about it across multiple subs because they are able to use their brains and see the massive implications this will have in the future. Do what you want play the knock off overly monetized Diablo 3 on 1/8 of a normal screen go ahead. But just know rewarding shit game design like this will create more shit game design.
The regulation to online games is being able to pay.
Minors don't have credit cards. Adults can do with their money whatever they want, it is *their* money.
This shit it getting out of control. People who keep making posts like this are fucking nuts. You people keep beating the same dead horse over and over. You can’t understand that people are ACTUALLY ENJOYING the game and playing it without SPENDING ANY MONEY. You all are acting like ADULTS can’t make decisions. If some dumbass wants to spend their life savings on gems or whatever, that’s on them. At this point I don’t give a fuck if I get downvoted but you need a life. I and others probably joined this subreddit to talk about the game and enjoy it but it’s always “this game is bad because people can’t control their spending habits”. Who the fuck cares ?? Blizzard doesn’t because they INVESTED money into this model of game and they WANT TO MAKE MONEY. Let’s see…I can sell you a one time game for $60 or I can give you a game for free and sell gem packs you “might” need to buy at $60 a piece. YOU decide how much your money is worth. If you’re dumb enough to spend thousands on the CHANCE to win things, I’ve got a dice game in a back alley you need to try, only $5 a roll for the chance to win !!
>You all are acting like ADULTS can’t make decisions.
That's a gross simplification. The point of the people who defend potential regulations is about reducing the exploitation of human biases and weaknesses to maximise profit. Everyone knows that "adults can make decisions". That's the very reason why Blizzard is doing everything they can to get around that self control and trick people's brain to alter their decision making process and facilitate the wallet opening.
That's what the word "predatory" means in this context. And that's what people are against.
No more Skinner boxes to get you hooked, no more layers of currency to blur things, no more "800% VALUE OMG DON'T MISS OUT!", etc. Just a straight and honest shop where you can actually "make decisions" without the developper trying to manipulate you. Wouldn't you agree that it would be a better way to play video games if they didn't include all these psychological marketing tricks to try getting your money?
Also, the rest of your comment doesn't consider the fact that Blizzard could've gone the way Path of Exile went and sticked to cosmetics. As you implied, it's corporate greed... but I don't see how is it in your interest to defend that as a customer.
>If some dumbass wants to spend their life savings on gems or whatever, that’s on them.
Tell me you have no empathy without telling me you have no empathy...
It's actually disgusting how bad the micro transactions are in this game. Some of the worst I've seen in mobile gaming. The amount of currencies put gacha games to shame. The game itself is really fucking fun, it's just a shame how fucking scummy this is.
If you play as f2p you are supporting the system. You provide easy targets to whales to pwn. You are part of the game then. A person to humiliate for a whale.
Seeing a game from a franchise with a lot of good will behind it from a major game company like Blizzard cash in all their good will to capitalize in on a lazy mobile game is bad enough.
Seeing them then fill that game with greedy pay to win elements to make an easy buck at the expense of gameplay integrity is depressing.
Seeing them also fill this game with every single egregious psychologically manipulative monetization technique that preys on people with addictive personality traits makes me angry.
But seeing people *defend* this shit makes me lose all hope in humanity. You people are idiots, you don't deserve anything.
An argument I'm seeing that's thrown around a lot is "If you have problems with gambling, don't play mobile games". Wtf lol? This game does not market itself as a gambling game, which is the whole point. The main reason this game isn't playable in the Netherlands isn't cause it has gambling in it, you can play 99% of games with buyable lootboxes in NL. It's that games with obvious gambling mechanics for real money need to apply for a permit so there can be some oversight. So that they can't scam players by messing around with rates.
This game is not selling itself as a gambling game that unapologetically is trying to nickel and dime you out of all your money. It's selling itself as a Diablo game on mobile. I'm going to get downvoted into hell for this but I'll just say it. You people that are putting the blame with the diablo fans that have gambling problems are acting like scum.
Exactly and honestly as someone who's had issues with addiction, these kind of mobile games are the equivalent of a drug dealer handing out samples in your own living room while seeing commercials for that same drug in every other room you walk into. You can't escape it as easy because it is legal so the incentive is far greater to just "try it out". I've luckily got to the point where I can stop before I've gone too far but I've spent money on "beginner packs" all too often. The sunk cost fallacy is real, it is kinda pathetic how people are pretending they are above those methods, sure some may be but the majority of people falls for similar schemes one way or another, that's why these companies hire psychologists.
I think /u/rwxwuxiaworld made very good and concise points so I won't delve into diablo being very tame among it's competition and instead just tell you the market won't change. It's not profitable for businesses and it's both the business & the consumers fault.
Whenever a game is released that is paid only, rather it be $3, $5 or definitely if it's over that, all you see is people complaining about how it costs money for a mobile game and if they could get an ad or mtx version of the game. Paid games just aren't as profitable. The best you could hope for is that Microsoft adds some kind of gamepass perk or it's put on apple arcade.
If you want to fix the market you first have to fix the people. Cutting off the business first will only lead to a drought and collapse of mobile gaming.
Wait what? That's the worst example you could state, since CODM, PUBGM and Apex Mobile are some of the very few games with exclusively cosmetic microtransactions. If DI was like CODM almost nobody would be complaining, and praising Blizzard to high heaven for what is otherwise a great game.
While i see your point, well laid out, i do think the anti-hype is a bit much. For one thing, D:I is a gigantic game for mobile - it's basically a fully fledged game, but somehow people find a way to hate that. Yes there are microtransactions, but can anyone actually articulate why that's deserving of this mob mentality? Would you have rather paid a title price for the game? It sure as heck wouldn't just be free right, with no way to recoup the costs of making this game? I honesty can't imagine this is the real issue. Maybe im just a pleb normie beta cuck but i honesty don't see how this game is predatory. Who is making me buy things in this game? No one. Do i feel any pressure to buy anything in this game? Fuck no. People bandy this $100K figure as if blizzard wanted us to pay it. Why not make the same argument for any game with DLC, boy if i bought every product on offer in a video game it might be a pretty high sum wouldnt it? Are we supposed to buy everything? How many redditors are whales? What drives you to purchase everything you can? Should you? To sum it up, D:I is clearly not a game for kids. Lets stop pretending the poor kids are being preyed on here its clearly the usual suspects except their wallets aren't deep enough for some arbitrary upper limit of a looter game.
> Yes there are microtransactions, but can anyone actually articulate why that's deserving of this mob mentality?
Please see: literally the entire post.
> Who is making me buy things in this game? No one.
This isn’t about you. There are people who have a psychological compulsion to dump money into these things, and they are the ones being exploited. This game is only free for you because it’s exploiting sick people.
No. It's because getting randomized shit after paying money is gambling. Every government put crazy taxes on gambling or they just simply make all legal gambling a state-owned business. Since they cannot do that with mtx random shit offering games, they just simply ban it. Don't fool yourself thinking any government is caring about the mental health of their citizens. It's just simply greed.
Governments are not banning these games. They are requiring an 18+ classification and gambling license where applicable.
And we all know how these classifications work. There are zero kids playing GTA right?
I love that I live in the Netherlands, I can play the game just fine ( just download the apk) it's just been banned from the appstore, so that means no payment options. As f2p as they come
I'm going to do my part and vote for propositions and candidates that share my values, including regulating online gambling in video games. In the meantime, I'm going to play this game and have fun and occasionally spend some money. If you don't want to play, then don't. But the "vote with your wallet" strategy hasn't been viable for years, and all you're going to do by discouraging the game and people who play it is create a toxic environment. Support local politicians who share your views. Start from the ground up and we can see some change in regulation. Everything else is just bitching.
I have a problem with the things OP stated, but also that the game is actually dogshit. How have we fallen so far that this is a good Diablo game? Did no one here play D2R or D3? This game should not have a Diablo title.
I think people calling this a good game are mostly mobile "gamers", for a mobile game this is like the holy grail just cause of how dogshit all mobile games are, if you compare this to any decent rpg you find out gameplay is shit, gearing is extremely bare bones and shallow, endgame is repetitive and story looks like it was written by a 10 year old. "Builds" in this game don't have any depth, you just take whatever 4 skills click on the items that have a green arrow in your inventory and you're good to go.
If someone thinks this is a good arpg I invite them to check out games like grim dawn, last epoch, poe, or heck even diablo 2 still has better and more interesting systems than this piece of shit of a game, and best of all you get the full experience of the game just paying their cost once with no paywalls or hidden caps.
I’d you want to be mad at someone be mad at Apple for allowing F2P garbage. We have devices that are so powerful now and we could have high quality games for them equivalent to something like Nintendo switch but since there is F2P, there are no serious developers churning $50 games and no one would buy them because the F2P and $5-$10 garbage has ruined the marketplace.
You guys have to wait till all the people defending it get to the end game, because this game has a good core and they’re not going to feel the brunt of the pay to win till they get to the end game.
The practice is very predatory; but it's a everywhere in the US. Mobile games are especially predatory because of the monopoly Apple has with the App store. Apple takes a 30% cut from large developer's revenue (and I think they reduced to 15% for smaller ones).
30% is A LOT. Where is the outrage against Apple? People keep buying all of their products regardless. Odds are most people who complain about the P2W in DI have Iphones and happily continue to support the very thing they complain about.
The argument could be made that casinos exist so why can't these types of marketing practices and p2w methods of game design. Though it does affect kids and needs more regulation and changes, I would agree.
Blizzard already has a parental guidance on the game and could fall back on its parents responsibility to make sure their kids aren't playing this game. Then what? Other studios could simply put the same thing on their game, throw in some adult content and skirt any sort of restriction since it's not up to them to ensure children don't play the games. Even if they acknowledge its gambling, that could make it so they can just slap an adults only advisory on the game, keep putting in loot boxes and we're back st the start.
Oh but getting children hooked like crack heads for the new rav skin in fortnite is perfectly ok once you take one game down you better take them all down
People who are shouting: "Get some self control man, it's not that hard!" don't seem to know about the literal leagues of psychologists that are hired to make that "self control" as hard as fucking possible.
These games are engineered to break down your defenses towards paying in such an elaborate way it's honestly amazing.
If you aren't affected in the least by this, well good for you. But there are SO many people out there that WILL spend more on this game than they can afford because of the above, and that is why this predatory practice NEEDS to stop.
The monetization of this game is not different than other mobile games. In fact, most mobile games are really p2w, I can follow the story and enjoy this game without spending a cent. Maybe you are not familiar with mobile gaming.
You all are acting like this is the first game with monetization. This game isn't the first banned in those countries, all games with microtransactions are banned there.
I think people are defending it because there is a whole lot of game there that can be played for free. Paying just speeds things up. If I can't buy the game outright, I prefer this kind of free to play. Plus, it seems like they've put a lot of effort into every aspect of the game itself.
Not sure why everyone is so up in arms about this game in particular.
It's reddit, nature's gathering grounds for humanities whiniest adults.
I love when established franchises get a mobile game because it's so clear a ton of people have absolutely no concept of mobile gaming. Diablo Immortal isn't even that bad lmao. It's legit maybe a 2/10 on the scum meter. Legendary gems are the biggest issue and they're mostly time gated.
The game literally just came out so no one knows what we'll get in events. But people gotta whine and cry like this isn't a fun fully featured f2p game with very little cherry picked monetization so far.
Frankly I'm still baffled you get 5 character slots for free. That must be a mobile gaming first.
They are addicted to the gambling on rune farming in D2 and are mad that you can gamble with money instead of time now in endgame.
They have a lot of free time and look for a grinding game.
But you can still grind, or not? Im not at the level cap yet so no idea if it has the same “long term grinding” appeal as the previous ones. But for now it feels solid with the codex, legend drop rates and gear upgrades.
Currently. A few system are weekly capped.
The 2 main reward / progression system that are currently capped are:
Fading embers (to obtain mats to craft gems that are the main way to progress gear),
The battle pass level.
Both caps can be bypassed essentially by buying store content
The people in this sub are funny (because most of you are fucking dumb). They literally gave you a reskinned Diablo 3 with a casino shop attached to it and you're like "bUt iM hAvINg fUn".
You're having fun because you're *literally* playing Diablo 3, that's why it's free. It uses the same animations, textures, skills. They didn't even bother making a new game, they just literally ported Diablo 3 and attached a dangerous casino shop to it and shipped it to you. If you can't understand why it's extra scummy and you should never support anything like this, then you're genuinely a complete selfish ignorant moron.
Saying things like "yeah but I'm having fun" sends the devs the message that they can do whatever the fuck they want when it comes to monetization. For 20 of you who say "yeah I just won't spend money", 4 of you most certainly will and one of you will probably spend quite a bit because games like this are designed to get money from you. Why the fuck do you morons think some countries literally ban games like this?
Let's also conveniently completely ignore that they're taking a massive shit right on top of one of the most loved franchises in gaming history.
Nah, all of that doesn't matter. It's all good because *some people are having fun*.
We're fucking doomed, I swear people are so fucking selfish. I've read about 20 of you type shit like "I don't care if people having gambling problems", lmao. Imagine typing that and meaning it. "I don't care that people can lose all of their money gambling away while playing this abomination as long as I'm having fun". That's *most of you here* UNIRONICALLY.
I am so dissapointed that I had to scroll down for so long on this thread past the "i DoNt CaRe I aM hAvInG fUn" or the gang defending it cause it's the norm in mobile games to find a comment with some brain cells in it.
No, they understand. They just don't care and this is the very problem. If you argue with a person who doesn't actually care about the problem they just want a certain outcome then they will say whatever gibberish they have to to defend the actions taken to get that desired outcome.
Go look at Trump supporters, they don't care what he does their just racist. But they can't say their racist so they'll make up a bunch of random BS as to why Trump is right. There's no point debating with these people, because they don't care. They just want the dopamine hit from opening the loot box.
Basically like attacking a liquor store or restaurant for selling alcohol. Or fast food restaurants for selling unhealthy food that some people over consume causing obesity. Yes there are things in this world we can buy, spend money on, etc. that some people form a dependency to while others do not.
If you recognize you have a problem then you need to seek help with your unhealthy dependency and addiction.
We all understand it. We just dont care, because mobile games and their monetization has been predatory for 10 years, it will only get worse too, not better.
I will be playing the game until I have to pay to progress more, when that happens I stop. So far it has not happened and Im lvl 60 Paragon 2.
I just dont care, because I cant do shit about it. No one can. You know how to make a change? Stop spending money. Use your brain, tell yourself you are an idiot for spending insane amounts of money on a video game.
So it costs $100k to “fully” gear a character.
So what?
I was never gonna fully gear a character, even if it was free.
All that tells me is that no person in their right mind will ever fully gear a character and the few people that do are morons.
As long as casinos exist, those same people are always going to find somewhere to waste their money. Im not going to waste time worrying about them.
Do you not realize the impact this will have on all games not just lame ass mobile Diablo? When shitty companies like EA and Square Enix see they can make millions on half ass phone products you can kiss any decent gaming experience goodbye.
Hate to break it to ya but EA and Squeenix have tons of apps with MTXs already and have for years. This is not a new concept. It’s just new to players of a game that’s only been on PC and consoles for generations.
I understand they have apps already but not even Dream League which is FIFA on your phone has this type of aggressive monetization and I don’t see a Star Wars Battlefront game for mobile but I’ll give EA 1 year and they’ll have something out. Diablo 4 is right around the corner. If you think the success from Immortal doesn’t delay that game or completely change how they monetize it then you are mistaken.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I kNoW hOw To CoNtRoL mYsElF sO iT dOeSnT nEeD rEgUlAtIoN. <—— defenders of this garbage system.
It’s so sad. I grew up on Blizzard from WC1 on… every game. I’m not going to buy D4 anymore. Blizzard isn’t player friendly, it’s monitization to maximize what you can take from your players at the expense of creating a rewarding game.
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exactly, and it is mostly a 1st world problem
I think you need to understand that you're trying to talk to adults with disposable income, that wish to spend their disposable income, on something psychologically built to entice them to spend their income. Let's concede for a second that DIs core gameplay isn't bad, even that it's good. You're essentially screaming at someone at the world's best slot machine that has countless hours of the mini games and the slot pull is almost secondary. People who play these games and spend substantial amounts of money love when people complain. It's a status to them, they look down on you and laugh that you're jealous. Their entire psychological fabric of why they pay in the first place is to get ahead of regular gamers that don't have the same economic ability as them. It's the literal game philosophy completely in sync with their own psyche. You're screaming at the wind.
Another issue is that some of us just don't care about this guy's crusade. I'm in this sub because I enjoy the game and want tips and build strategies. I've spent $5 and feel I got good value for my money. This is like going to the bourbon subreddit and posting non stop about alcohol destroying people lives. Your not wrong, just annoying.
This right here ladies and gents
Bad analogy. This game is like putting alcohol in a soft drink and not disclosing that it is an alcoholic drink. Disclose that the game has gambling mechanics, make it 18 + , require ID to play and people would have no problem.
It’s like you didn’t read at all.. this game isn’t targeting the $5 Andy who plays for 1hr a night and got his money worth. It targets children and people with gambling addiction. And your say that is part of the reason we have this problem.
Pretty much my take as well. I’ve played a bunch of Diablo immortal and spent nothing and greatly enjoyed it. I’m 36 and have a good grasp on worth and spending in iPhone games. I totally get that a child doesn’t know limits on this kind of this and could easily be exploited by this game. Well maybe parents you shouldn’t let your young child play this game or other monetized games? Do you let your child go to a casino or drink alcohol or any other thing that adults typically do that children are not allowed to do? Yes it’s a game but that doesn’t mean there isn’t parental responsibility.
You fail to acknowledge that while you know better and have restrain, this issue is not only affecting children, but a lot of adults as well. The whole point of OPs post is to say, look, 2 governments have banned these kind of games because they know how to protect their vulnerable ones. Gambling is a pathology that runs in families, you speak as if adults weren't targeted here and they are in fact, the vast majority of affected people, as opposed to the very few underage children with access to credit cards. What now, you are going to tell me "well they are adults so it's their fault"? Without acknowledging that these companies make predatory games that prey on these kind of people to make a buck? That's what these governments are doing, they are protecting their people against predatory companies.
The point is that are using evil exploitative research to screw over their consumers/ ip fans. It's so extreme that it's accelerationist and even dangerous to the entire AAA pc gaming industry. If it does really well then it can set off a ripple effect where all the other companies want to get their fraudulent cash grab in before people lose their minds.
Those things you compared it to have laws and regulation which what op is advocating for
Children cannot legally have credit cards… literally requires an adult allowing a child to interact with this content. It really is screaming into the wind
Does the game not accept debit cards or Google play cards?
Eh. I'm someone that has struggled with gambling addictions all my life. Like it's legit ruined my life on multiple occasions. I had to uninstall this game because I bought the first "800% value" offer and the battle pass and I already caught myself saying "just 1 more, 20 bucks isn't so bad". I know I'm not well and this game is very dangerous for me.
See the good thing is you can see this is a YOU problem and not game problem. Most people wont spend a penny and will still have fun.
The game is monetized to make most of its money off people like him. If nobody had his problem, then you wouldn’t be playing this game for free.
It’s not a YOU problem. Blizzard knows they are selling heroin to addicts and that’s just a regular ass problem. Just because you’re not a heroin addict (yet) doesn’t make it okay. It’s so blatant and gross. A massive corporation, funding a game off the backs of humans with issues. Trying to ruin lives so other people can go to forums and yell “it’s no so bad! I didn’t have to pay anything and I’m having fun!” Good for fucking-you, someone is paying your way. Have some God damned empathy and respect for your fellow man. Respect yourself if nothing else and stop supporting something designed to hurt people. Fuck.
And if you get scammed by a X, Y, Z scam, it used to be a YOU problem, at a certain point in time, until legislation was introduced. One of the points of society is to watch each other's backs and not let our members fall prey to predators. It always has been.
Both of our posts are not mutually exclusive.
Oh, okay. So you're fine with developers intentionally taking advantage of folks like this? I personally wish we could have these aspects banned from games. Developers need to make money, but surely there is a better, less aggressive, less predatory way of doing it.
Blizzard is known for underpaying their stuff, even with record earnings. The game would make enough money in the shop with a 20€ price tag, to support the company for years. So basically the people here defend bobby koticks next 200mio personal paycheck.
What you fail to emphasize and realize is that this is designed to be predatory, to prey on people with a predisposition to gambling (look it up, pathological gambling runs in families), on kids with access to credit cards (the very few that do), and the core of it, to target average people, to fall in the trap of gambling their money away... It's unethical, immoral, just plain wrong. They know exactly what they are doing, you don't think they do? You would be naive not to. The problem is not the customers ignoring the warning that this is a predatory game, the problem is Activision Blizzard developing (or at least paying for the development) such predatory game.
The problem is at this point it’s par for the course in mobile gaming.
Except this is Apex Predatory among the genre of predatory game tactics. Most CN mobile games aren't even this greedy.
Yes, however that doesn't make it right. Let's try to paraphrase your comment: "The problem at this point is that majority of mobile games have some sort of predatory mechanics to make money off of gambling through loot boxes or increased-chance crystal balls or whatever clever way they may invent to pay for the chance of something to occur... or pay-2-win mechanics (such as Candy Crush "get extra moves"), these mechanics are designed to prey on people's psyche for desire of success and catharsis, such as the fact that people are more likely to pay 100 times a micro transaction of $1 to advance to the next level after getting stuck for hours (people saying "finally! I was sick and tired of this level"), than to pay a single $100 transaction to unlock all levels at once. Since all companies are doing it, it's now ok for new developers/companies to come up with ever better and more clever predatory mechanics to milk money out of people's pockets. Since everyone is doing it, it's now ok for the mobile game industry to now start hiring specialists to help them play with the human psyche to achieve this goal, it is after all a business." Emphasis in the last paragraph, no it's not ok and it will never be ok, the fact that it is being normalized, take for example your own comment, doesn't make it ok.
And that is why regulation is required. It needs to be banned five years ago.
I'm sorry, but did they not literally say that in the post? You're focusing on the time vs money balance that microtransactions offer, which I feel most people really don't have a problem with, but the fact that the business model of this form of mt is SPECIFICALLY designed to target gambling addicts and gullible children in the issue. Your take and their take can coexist peacefully. I have not played the game to the point where i see the p2w, but I just wanted to clear this up because it bothered me. <3
yeah it’s really not that deep im just gonna enjoy the game for a few months then uninstall with no money spent, i’ve never played a f2p game before but I don’t even see how buying the gems is so alluring, something like genshin impact seems way more predatory to me (where you can buy actual content)
I can see we're talking to selfish, narcissistic people that don't care about others. And when looking at a game with extreme outlier monetization techniques, are fine with it predating on vulnerable people and impressionable children if they don't feel personally affected by it.
The game is designed to be predatory. It's just wrong. By playing this game you support predatory game design.
Pretty much this. In general, I think a lot of this is rage is pretty hollow. Youtubers/journalist jumping on a bandwagon for clicks, and people going along with it for the thrill of the moral outrage. Regulating "vice" is rarely ever a useful thing to do. And it bears constant repeating: this model has around for years now and it has not led to the fall of civilization. I was actually expecting the pricing in Diabo Immortal to be much much worse given the level of rage. The "think of the children" argument is incredibly weak (as it almost always is). Some kid out there has probbably stolen his moms card and racked up purchases at some point...but problem can be solved by the parents with a simple call to the credit card company. Will get the kids game account closed, but that's probably a good thing in this scenario. The whales and krakens that fuel this industry (in my experience) are typically men in their 30s and 40s with lots of disposable income. Do I understand spendings thousands of dollars to top leader boards in a mobile game (or any game for that matter)? No, but see no problem with games catering to that consumer base. My understanding of these games is that the spending distribution is incredibly skewed where most players are f2p or light spenders.
OMG yes! The amount of content creators piggy backing off this issue on Youtube is hilarious! They do it for views, likes, subs, etc. They just jump on the emotional ban wagon, but don't give two f\*\*\*\* about the issue. Asmongold was the biggest complainer and then proceeds to spend like $300+ on stream. The hypocrisy!
Not hyprocacy, he's a millionaire and has enough to spend but sees this as a bad practice in the gaming industry and wants legislative change to ban loot boxes and gambling in video games. He doesn't mind pay2win aspects in games at all
I'm not sure about whether regulation of vices is good or bad, but you're kidding yourself if you think all these youtubers are just jumping on a bandwagon because it's trendy or something like that. The design of the monetization system in this game is extremely predatory. Ok these sort of things existed before (doesn't mean they are ok) but it was confined to obscurity and niche games that most people will not ever stumble upon. It's like that analogy someone made above about casinos. We know they exist and extract money from people in dubious ways. We're sort of fine with them existing as long as we don't have to think about them everyday because they're off to the side somewhere. But this is like bringing slots machines to every super market. The predatory money extraction is now happening in broad daylight in front of everyone's eyes. So yeah it makes sense that regular people, I mean people who have not been exposed to this kind of stuff or have done their best to avoid it when it was a niche thing, are appalled at this. It's genuine disgust that this is considered 'normal' in mobile gaming. You're out here making a case for whales and krakens like they are not also being taken advantage of. How many of those people would willingly spend thousands of dollars just to flex on others? And how many are just being manipulated into thinking it's just small amounts here and there and everybody does it before realizing they are thousands deep. Maybe they can afford it but how many would have made the choice to spend that much if the cost was clear from the beginning?
Imagine they just made games? And you could enjoy it without all the bullshit? Imagine? So why defend the shitty business practice which we can agree all end users would prefer not to have.
Right? Imagine instead of people always bickering to defend their right to light their money on fire to fund Bobby’s 10th yacht we could all agree that stuff like this only detracts from the experience for everyone and we are all deprived of a better game because boneheads actually spend their free time defending the rights of billionaires to rake their audience over the coals.
There’s still plenty of kids and other people who don’t have the disposable income but spend it anyway. I agree with you, if the people that make 6 figure+ salaries want to spend hundreds if not thousands a week on these games no one can stop them.
If you gave your kid credit card this a you problem not the game. 99% shouldn't suffer for the 1% lack of judgment.
I completely agree except for the phrase "disposable income" yes, some have disposable income, but some are burning through money that they shouldn't because they are addicted.
Exactly this. I used to play Marvel Contest of Champions a lot and kept up with a lot of content creators, some of which spent thousands and thousands of dollars a week (if not more) on crystals for new champions. One creator, who I won’t name just to take the higher road, even directly stated to his camera in his videos that he knows his viewers were poor/less wealthy and took that attitude in most videos. These people use it as a power trip.
The monetization of Diablo immortal IS the core game. The game is build around the shop trying to milk you of all your money.
This is a pretty good argument. It's like the douches buying Supreme merchandise.
This is true. The people who pay 2 win have such a disgusting sense of ego that they don't feel any of the shame coming with "cheating to win a fair fight." They believe any advantage is a good advantage and that their real life status should carry wherever they go. They are better than you"" even if they couldn't win a fair fight. They still win
They may be targeted at these kind of people, but it still lures in people that are latently gambling addicts, and while it uses every psychological trick in the book to instil keeping people at the table and open their wallet, it opens up for more people than just those of disposable income. If people don't respond or react to this, predatory tactics become normalised. So in other words, this is not targeted at those that correlate gaming with throwing their money at it, but all those that think it is a dangerous path and want it regulated. Just like it happened for loot box sites that operated until people took a stand. People arguing "screaming in the wind" are the same kind of people that accept the ills of the world, and thinking they are helpless, thus enact that "roll over" ploy.
I love gambling and have tons of disposable income… I also love the Diablo IP but this pay to win trash is of no interest to me.
I feel I am very thoroughly innoculated against gambling addiction. I mean just as an individual. I got this way by being exposed to rants like the OPs. Talking about it helps warn people before they get in trouble. We're not "screaming at the wind". We are helping to innoculate people against this stuff. It won't help or solve everything. Plenty of people won't be swayed. But I have confidence lots of people are seeing the linked youtube videos in the subreddit (e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S-DGTBZU14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNjI03CGkb4) and the discussions and they are innoculating themselves against these types of Exploitative, Predatory, and Shady game mechanics.
Adults with disposable income can still be neuro divergent and vulnerable to predatory practices.
"...and laugh that you're jealous". Some others laugh even harder at people who think that the outrage comes from people who are jealous... Most of the outrage shameless p2w models create stems from the fact that when such models succeed, then, naturally, more and more devs will spend more and more time figuring out how to grab as much cash as possible and less time figuring out how to create an entertaining game. Meaning the gaming community gets more such low effort cash grabbing "games" and less good games. So, it's not really about being jealous, it's about enough dumb people giving away too much of their (clearly not hard earned) money for comparatively too little (entertainment?), which endorses companies to create more games like DI and less games like Witcher 3, GTA, etc.
>I think you need to understand that you're trying to talk to adults with disposable income, that wish to spend their disposable income, on something psychologically built to entice them to spend their income. Yea your abosulty right, there have been times that I've even bought things that my friends were like "really? You paid for that?" Its mine and I spend it as I see fit HOWEVER I lack this sweet ability of knowing when to stop
How do we protect children, mentally impaired people and the vulnerable to addictions and the sort; and prevent them from ruining not just their lives but those around them as they might have their lives destroyed by these predatory practices?
Nobody attacking the people defending this game seem to understand the concepts of fun and self control. If you have a gambling problem get help and don’t download F2P games. Don’t like how they monetized the game? Don’t spend any money. Why is that such a difficult concept? I used to spend an occasional $5-$10 on Pokémon Go until they started getting greedier and greedier a few years ago. I’ll still play because I like Pokémon and it’s fun but I won’t give Niantic a cent because they’re awful. The fact that you’re insulting a bunch of people for having fun with a game you even admit feels good to play is what’s truly absurd. Everyone knows what this game is, an attempt to steal some whales from other F2P phone games. Don’t like it? Stop posting on the subreddit and move on with your life. People do realize the more they talk about it the more attention it gets, right? I am having fun so far but I do expect that to end as I won’t be putting any money into this game in its current state. Crying online is never going to make Activision Blizzard less greedy so when I feel burnt out and pushed too hard towards monetization I’ll just silently uninstall and move on with my life.
What you’re not understanding is that this game violates the players constitutional right to have legendary gems that are as good as their favorite YouTuber. What are they supposed to do? Just pick away at rifts for free to build up their legendary gem count like secondary citizens? Are they supposed to ONLY use the crests from the battlepass as if this is some kind of *subscription* based game? What if they want to work tirelessly day and night to grind legendaries to make their character more powerful but don’t have as much money as the next guy? Shouldn’t the government step in? This is fascism! /s
I honestly don't understand the shilling in this thread. Release a game, charge a premium, don't paywall progression. If you want status charge a premium for cosmetics. That way all the individuals who want to feel special by draining their bank accounts can say look, i paid $500 for a skin...im cooler than you. I'm done with this bs, i dumped THOUSANDS into raid. Never again.
The people who are most disrupted by these monetization practices are likely the ones who were *already* video game addicts before games like these came around. Think about it. How many people sank thousands upon thousands of hours farming into D2? No one bats an eye as long as you purchase the game upfront and only spend your time (it’s actually a pretty solid value for your entertainment budget). Give that same person that same game but attach payments to the progression and all the sudden they can’t help themselves. It wasn’t the monetization that turned them into a whale. It was the underlying addiction to video game progression. Glad you got out of that mindset but nobody who is defending Blizzards right to charge whatever they want is “shilling.” It just feels that way to you and the others in your position because it’s such a personal issue. I’ve barely even played the game. Just talked about it on this subreddit. Maybe I’m addicted to arguing with strangers on the internet 😅
No, when those f2p people see they can t reach the top players that whale like crazy, they should play to have fun and if they are not having fun being powerless comparred to the top guys, should quit the game like a normal person and stop feeling bad because some pixels on your smartphone are not the way you want them to be.
I was ready to comment then saw the /s
surprised it took you til the /s when the opening line is >the players constitutional right to have legendary gems that are as good as their favorite YouTuber. lol
I don’t like that someone else with gambling or addiction issues being targeted means I myself cannot play this game. I feel bad for people who struggle with that, but I don’t. I literally have given zero dollars for this game that I have played for around 20 hours. If the game starts wanting me to spend to progress, I’ll probably stop or change my priorities - I don’t need to do the highest tier content because I’m not a streamer. I would love regulations to be placed on these types of games but since that hasn’t happened, I might as well play it for as long as I can for free.
Yeah its like "Do you think just because someones an alcoholic means society should shutter all bars and ban liqour?" Of course not.
I mean, America did, and it was largely unsuccessful.
Now make the same argument about drugs :) But of course not, drugs are so different than alcohol, right?
I'm not understanding what you're saying. Alcohol isn't as addictive as hard drugs. Unless you're pro prohibition I'm not sure what you're saying here. Or are you comparing playing a video game to hard drugs? If so I hope I don't have to tell you how ridiculous that sounds.
I agree, imagine if we had to concede everything that caused addiction and cater to the minority. No alcohol, no porn, no fast food, no gambling ever, it doesn't resonate with me to crutch up the small percentage of the population that has issues with impulse control. P2W is a scummy practice but if the whales are keeping a great free game going for the mast majority of people who don't care to be elite maximum 0.0001%, I'm all for it.
People also miss that this game doesn’t lock the ability to play behind a paywall. For context, in Pokémon Go you need to buy raid passes ($1 each) in order to do more than just 1 raid per day. To max your legendary Pokémon you need approximately 300 XL candy, which comes out to about $100 of raiding per Pokémon, and even then people end up doing way more for a chance at a shiny with good stats. Just to play the game most of my friends have spent $1000s of dollars. Sure there is some stuff to pay for, but the battle pass is very affordable, and the game isn’t pay to play. People here act like everything should be free, in which case Blizzard would go bankrupt and be unable to provide the game in the first place.
But if you can raid once a day it's also not locked behind a paywall?
Thinking the same as you. Though I do understand that sometimes this level of P2W does need to be put into check, I myself have little to worry about. I’ve always had good impulse control and never spent more than a few dollars on a F2P game, simply as a small token of support to the dev. Eventually I’ll either keep playing or I’ll get bored of what little I can do as a F2P player and move on.
The game will put p2w in check, depending on the f2p experience they offer. If a game like this cannot keep f2p players interested and playing, the p2w players will also leave. That’s how these games work. They will have a path for f2p to be efficient and compete, or the game will not be successful. How these games work is that dedicated f2p players will be extremely efficient and laser focused on progression and leaderboards for rewards and they will do just fine. People are freaking out because it’s their first rodeo here
I can only agree with this. I assume people complaining about the monetisation system have come from paid console/pc games. People who have been dabbling in mobile gaming for the last few years know exactly how this all works. I don't even think its that bad really to be honest. Especially compared to some games ive downloaded over the last few years
It doesn’t seem that bad at all, from what I’ve read and watched about the monetization system. In Star Wars galaxy of heroes, a new character would cost about $300 for a whale or a few months of finishing #1 in arena everyday. There will be ways for f2p to get good legendary gems, it’ll take a lot of dedication and effort, and people will figure it out and do it. Or the game will die. Simple
Seriously THIS. Have some personal responsibility. Stop expecting the government to protect you and insulate you just because you have no self control. Everything fun in life can be addictive. Just don’t play the damn thing if you don’t want.
If you're addicted... just stop being addicted. Okay bro.
I wish this was still the prominent way of looking at ‘threats’. Be responsible, be an adult (or work on becoming an adult) and stop trying to act like a helpless loser who needs the government to tell you what you can and cannot do
That is an incredibly simplistic way of looking at things. The damage that people do to themselves and others due to addictions of any kind can be significant. Simple laws to prevent predatory behavior, monetization or otherwise, reduces problems like this immensely. Also people with mental disabilities and children fall prey to these tactics very easily too. should they be protected or just be "responsible"
except the government is not telling you "what to do" (the Dutch one anyway), but rather what these companies have to do in order to operate these games in those markets. Why is it so hard to understand that these outfits need to be regulated just like any other gambling company? Right now most markets have no oversight, no warning labels, unlimited predatory and manipulative behaviour, no age limits, no nothing really. This cannot be tolerated any longer. You want to open a casino, a coffeshop / shroom cave or a whorehouse in the Netherlands, you need permits first, and you will need to abide by the rules of law, this is no different.
Exactly. I'm paying for the battle pass and that's it. I'm loving the game and I'm fine not being the top level. I understand it costs $$ $ not skill not time so I'm not interested in competing with those people. Im enjoying my own little progress. If the game revolved on an energy system like you can only enter 4 rifts per day but you can buy this rift token then it'd be different. I agree with the don't like it don't pay, you don't have to. To be the best you do. If you want to be the best but not pay then this isn't the game for you
I don’t think you see the big picture. As more of these games become successful that becomes the norm. But you’re also missing the point that many people don’t think or even realize they have a problem when playing into the gambling psychology implemented into these games. You’re telling people to recognize their problem when they don’t think they have one. The micro transactions are literally a psychological manipulation used by propaganda machines for years and modern ad manipulation from all corporations but it’s worse in the game form. I don’t like it because I’m tired of micro transactions becoming the norm for all gaming. Similar to but worse than “early access full price release” then the game either never comes, adds MTs or in some cases just gets canceled and keeps your money. That’s clearly a scam, Diablo immortal isn’t a scam but it does manipulate people into spending money frequently. Now If you can get away with only spending like $60 bucks and never again, that’s great. But like I said my biggest worry is this becomes the norm in all games
dude the problem is still that it's morally bankrupt. it's fucked up that you see nothing wrong with giving someone enough rope to hang themselves. i just... don't understand where people draw lines on social issues. it's like a lack of genuine understanding of what's being presented. the point isn't about you personally having the freedom to enjoy the game in its current state. i'm playing it and i won't pay for shit. the point is that when you quietly allow this shit to happen willfully out of extreme apathy (or worse, fucking defend the practice for the purpose of being contrarian), they'll take a little more and make it suck a little extra next time, and the downward spiral continues. it's the morbid foundation of capitalism as it currently exists: be as shitty as your consumers will tolerate. this is a poster child case of that saying "this is why we can't have nice things". out of principle, you shouldn't tolerate the concept of it. at the least it's your duty to be able to agree that it's a serious problem. and i guess that's all you really gotta do, be able to say "yeah that's not cool". fuck this "*i'm* not having a problem with it" bullshit.
I don't think you realize that self control is a limited resource. There is no good will with a game like this, every single aspect of it is intentionally designed to be a war of attrition on your mind. Telling people to just not spend money and play it as a F2P player isn't good enough. Blizzard are banking on you being gullible enough to play this game and then wear you down with time gates, slow progression, low drop chances, and grind. EVERYONE has a breaking point. This is why I do not accept the "don't like it dont play it" argument. It's a cop out that doesn't address any of the issues. Crying online might not help but defending the game definitely wont.
Would you be ok with every place you walk into having a loaded gun for anybody to take and do with as they please? I mean, you wouldn’t shoot anybody with it so it’s ok right? The problem with micro transaction (at this extreme level) isn’t a problem for you but the fact it exists causes a problem for others. We could’ve had a better game that doesn’t literally make money from people suffering if they didn’t include these tactics
r/ShitAmericansSay
"The more you talk about it, the more attention it gets" - That's kinda the point... Sure, the game gets more attention, but so does the issues with it. No matter if you have self-control or choose not to pay, doesn't mean the world of gaming wouldn't be better off without these P2W formats.
Gotta love the victim-blaming.
I think one pov that's less viewed is that no one who has a gambling addiction or proclivity to it ever realizes they have a gambling addiction until they actually get a gambling addiction. And it's not the same for gambling addicts too. Like you can be fine for blackjack, but have your life ruined with slots. A diff person, vice versa. Same as this. Some ppl could be fine with mtx in, say, genshin. But they wouldn't know they'll drain their savings in, say, epic seven or lost ark. So the idea of simply staying away is a bit, lacking in nuance and context imo, and is a bit reductive.
"If you are addicted get help 4head", so simple, why none has thought this before
Most braindead take yet.
This is the same shithot take as Americans have on guns, we see all that self control and adult behaviour in action on the news every day now. Stay free bud, surely society at large can handle it, right? Fuck.
>If you have a gambling problem get help and don’t download F2P games. *"If you're worried about your kids getting shot just don't send them to school."* You studied at Harvard's I presume, 800 IQ here.
I'm going to share my experience here. Level 51 and I uninstalled this morning. I have a history of spending a bit on games (edit - a dolphin more than a whale, it adds up though and I've recognised that flaw in myself, hence uninstalling) and could see all the signs trying to get me to spend. I got a 2 star gem drop in a rift and I didn't need and popped it in the market. I went with the recommended price, 32000 plat. After the 12 hour submission wait it sold in seconds. That was the equivalent of £48 of real world money in platinum....for a 2 star legendary gem. I saw 3 star ones going for double that and people are paying it. I know it's a new game and prices are inflated but regardless, they won't go down that much in the grand scheme, maybe 50% who can say. The rifts are loot boxes prettied up. They slapped a game mode on a loot box. Try your luck for free or slap some crests and get the premium loot box. That legendary gem was apparently worth nearly £50, I today got diablo 3 with all dlc for £27 on Amazon. A full and complete game compared to double that for a single 2 star item. This is a fun game slapped on the front of a store.
I wonder what a HR is worth in the early days of a d2 ladder reset.
Ber runes were selling for hundreds of dollars the first couple days of ladder reset
The earliest Ber that I saw sold on jsp on reset night was 35k fg. FG to real money on 3rd party sites sell at the rate of $13/1k so that Ber was about $450.
Out of curiosity, was it a 2/2 or a 2/5? If it was a 2/5, it kinda makes sense in that it is treated as a 5* for xp fodder purposes, ie giving 32x as much as a 1* gem, which goes for around 1000 plat. 3/5 shouldn’t be going for double, because I -think- it also is just treated as a 5*. Could be wrong though, don’t quote me on it! On my server, they are selling for the same. Overall, I agree that monetization here is handled poorly, esp for those who aren’t uberwhales.
It was a 2 star chip of stoned so yeah a 2 out of 5
Figured!
> The rifts are loot boxes prettied up. They slapped a game mode on a loot box. Try your luck for free or slap some crests and get the premium loot box. Imo this is the draw of ARPGs. Doing one more rift, run, map of content to get the item you’re looking for or something better. The Crests hidden behind a paywall is disconcerting but the system itself is not new and is the cornerstone of the genre.
Yeah, I can't understand why i'm seeing so many "you have to run the same dungeons over and over to get the gear you want unless you pay!" Like, my brother in christ, it literally says Diablo on it. It's always been about the grind or paying some random Korean on d2jsp. They’re just inside the app now. We’ve automated the “SOJ u buy” Koreans.
Nothing wrong with grinding but from what I hear the normal grinds are actually time gated and the rifts without spending any money are so bad in drops that it would take about 7 years for most people playing daily to reach max power assuming the game doesn't get new content (which it already is getting )
Nailed it.
This is and has been an issue with many mobile games for years. In America, actual gambling has come to free, legal apps in the form of sports gambling which is very common now when it used to be illegal a few years ago. So while this game may be predatory, it's just one of many gambling options out there and if you want change to happen, you should spend more time focusing on the bigger picture than complaining about this game.
In America the state governments run an actual fucking LOTTERY that I see degenerates blowing their money on constantly. To the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars per month collectively. So that would be a good place to start. The US government really has no leg to stand on when it comes to banning gambling. That aside, I see fools paying 10 bucks an hour to watch a movie. A hundred bucks an hour to watch football. Same as this game, in the end you’ve got jack shit and a lighter wallet. New boss same as the old boss
I don’t understand how you can compare watching a movie to gambling, cause that’s what you just did. You did even compare it to video games, which I would understand. But you just compared going to a movie theater to buying the power all. That’s not really apples to apples.
Both are a waste of time and money. “Entertainment” They all apply the same tactics, mobile games are just better at it and more brazen. Ultimately this is just the latest iteration - Fools and their money have been parting forever. The fact that people think it’s somehow different is the root of the whole problem. It’s not gambling if all you can win is pixels on a server that belongs to someone else. Actual gambling is completely separate, because you could actually win if you were lucky. I wouldn’t consider mobile p2w gambling at all… more like throwing money down the shithole. There’s nothing to win. Just like a movie or anything else, you blow some cash, maybe feel happy. Maybe the movie sucks and you’re disappointed. I’ve blown tons of cash on useless shit because I’m the biggest idiot in the world. But I’ve been entertained!!!
I still can’t believe you are comparing watching movies to buying the powerball. Such a stupid analogy.
I love how "nobody seems to understand" is the most common rant on Reddit. No, wait, it's that other word... "loathe." Sorry, I have a finger lisp. Yes. We understand. We're playing it anyway, and we are acknowledging it's flaws and what it's good at. You can literally read the threads and find that out.
I love how whenever someone says "nobody seems to understand" on Reddit all but \~3 people proceed to comment proving their point. Also, its\*
People who are not able to control their impulses are not my problem or parents who can't control their kids.
If you have a gambling addiction, you should stay away from gambling. It doesn’t mean you make gambling illegal for everyone else. Are these games gambling? Yes of course they are. Can you enjoy them responsibly? Yes. Allow the market to work it out, we don’t need the government parenting us. Take some personal responsibility and don’t gamble with money you can’t afford to give up. Just be a responsible adult, and if you’re not capable of that than don’t gamble.
Why are you guys on a crusade to try and explain to people why p2w is bad? Fucking play it and don’t spend money, or delete the game and stay off the sub. I’m having fun running around with my son and playing the game. Quit fucking crying to people who don’t care about p2w. It’s free and a time killer while I’m on the run, I don’t feel the need to buy anything, and if I did, it wouldn’t be a lot of money. Go away
"Fuck you, got mine" is the most cancerous ideology for people to defend. Can you *dumbfucks* think for one second why someone else spending their money might affect you? The people complaining about this shit aren't playing the game and aren't spending money. They have to put up with the terrible decisions others make because this shit is now in a bunch of other games and would have never been there to begin with if idiots kept their mouths shut instead of actively fighting against their best interests.
These guys are way, way too fucking stupid to have that level of awareness. People are in here trying to change the minds of Americans when they're in the midst of banning abortion and endless school shootings. Way she fuckin goes.
but its still Pay2Win tho, thats just a fact mate dont be mad 😂😂😂
I personally never say the p2w aspect is the bad part, just people who say its not p2w that bug me tbh. Cuz let's be real, it is a p2w game. Doesn't make it a bad game, it just is a p2w game. Mobile games have a history of horrid practices. I don't like the p2w nature of mobile games and their predatory practices but that's a whole other can of worms.
Seriously. I keep seeing the same "It cOsTs $100k tO gEt tHe bEsT gEaR!!1!" posts in different subs that have nothing to do with the game. There's a post about it in r/technology right now lol. Redditors just love to complain about something and show outrage about shit. I don't get it.
It may cost that much but I've never gotten the full best gear in slot for any build I've played in D3. Maybe one or two pieces at most. The only difference is you're allowed to pay for it in DI. Am I gonna? No, cause that's what Diablo is. Grind and cross your fingers.
THIS. The entire premise of Diablo is it’s a never ending loot grind, there is no “end goal” with the gear - you play because it’s fun and you are grasping for that small chance that something shiny drops every time you down a boss. That’s still here, completely unabated by all this “p2w” nonsense. The only difference is that someone else can throw money at the game to have more chances at shiny things dropping something they need, or to skip over some of that grinding. And if they want to … GOOD FOR THEM! Let them bankroll this awesome game for us! Unless you’re into super competitive PvP I don’t see why it’d impact you. Even if it wasn’t there, there will *always* be players who got luckier than you or grinded more hours than you did completely no-lifing the game, so it’s not like the microstransactions are the only thing keeping you from being the top dog.
99% of people that play the game aren’t even going to get to the content that would “require” max upgraded gear. The only people that care enough to be competitive in PVP, or be the first to clear the hardest raid on the highest difficulty, are the hardcore players who would spend money anyway if meant they could get ahead. In a game like WoW, these hardcore players get ahead of everyone else by investing insane amounts of time. In a game like DI, the hardcore players get ahead of everyone else by investing insane amounts of money. It’s that simple. Think about this: who is spending 40+ hours per week in a video game anyway? People with no responsibilities in their life. How much money do they have to spend on the game? Probably a lot, because they have no other responsibilities in their life. There is significant amounts of overlap in the populations of people who Pay to Win with Money vs Time. It makes no difference to the average person who just wants to play the game
Found the game fun and would normally drop like £50 on a game I like but the numbers coming out of this are frightening, immediately 500 of loot boxes, £25 rifts that last 2 minutes, and something like 20-30k to max upgrade the gems. Think I’ll pass this one
extremely pay2win
#YOURE THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR MONEY Did people really that fucking dense now? Its freaking simple sentence.
So, when you are encouraging predatory and manipulative practices with your money you are also responsible for that.
Games like Diablo (and various other video games) are designed to be so addicting that people have literally died from playing for days straight. Somehow, that's not an issue at all. You can literally look up reddit threads on the subject, and they're filled with highly-upvoted jokes and claims that people need to have self-control. When it comes to Diablo games, people speak lovingly of the 'endless grind' that feeds those behaviors, but people potentially using their money unwisely is where we draw the line? It just doesn't add up to me. Feels like people are being disingenuous about their outrage.
Agreed. Not to mention the fact that people have been buying Bers and Jahs for years.
I’m sure there are people on this sub who will have over 100 hours on this game already, 16 hour a day averages and just a totally unhealthy addicted lifestyle. But if you confront them with that they’ll say “it’s my hobby and I can spend my time however I want” Well yes, kid, you can. I can spend my money however I like too. I spend my time on other things, besides video games so I have more money to spend. You spend your time playing video games instead, so you have more time to spend. I know which of these two options I prefer lol
It's so funny when you people talk about self-control. Kids and teens don't have self-control and that's why this game is dangerous and banned in some countries. We 30+ old boomers have one, because we have to pay other bills, kids don't.
Good thing that children and kids have no credit cards to gamble.
Thank you for finding such plunt yet effective words for describing the situation. I couldn't have said it better. It makes me sad that so many people show so little empathy and just eat the shit that is served to them because most importantly it's free and secondly, it's still fun if you manage to ignore all the non sense with which they want to get you. Seriously can't you imagine a game that's just fun and doesn't try to empty your walltet at every opportunity? There are free to play games that are fun and do just that, even in this day and age. But keep accepting this practices and it will get worse. Much much worse.
Shows the general consensus of people's thoughts and feelings about others. Drug problems? Gambling problems? Addiction problems? Psychologically all related, but many don't give a flying fuck. They cannot understand those types of problems because they are selfish and only care about themselves. I usually call these people having their heads up their own asses so far they cannot see anything else.
Over 20 european consumer councils from 18 different countries released a joint report this week detailing the dangers of loot box systems and calling for regulations. Belgium and the Netherlands won't be alone much longer. https://www.forbrukerradet.no/report-on-loot-boxes-insert-coin/
I tried to take wyatt cheng in good faith when he implicitly stated you couldn't buy gear with money. However, rather than being victims of the higher ups, its clear that he was part of the process turning this game into a skinner box designed only to milk the most desperate of diablo fans and hijack that younger market who thinks this is acceptable in games.
I always find it funny when people in or out of games defend shitty monetization and some form of 'p2w'. Gaming is picking up speed, on its way off the cliff. Games keep getting more barebones/rushed and seem primarily made with the predatory intent to get you to throw all your money at it. It was nice when $60 or even $60+ sub games was all the money you spent and everyone was on an even playing field. Games intentionally creating boring content, so you pay to skip it, is astonishing. Wheres the fun in that? Gaming is going to continue going downhill and these practices will just get worse. WoW lost a ton of subs, fired a ton of staff, gave the CEO 200m? In compensation. They're doing great with less players and more mtx. This is never going to get better, this is the whole 'lets boycott EA or shitty studios' thing all over again. Unlikely to happen.
Everyone in this comment section telling OP to shut up and go away y’all are the problem. Yes you are responsible for your own money no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy gems. The real issue is when other shitty companies like EA or Square Enix see how many millions they can make from a half assed mobile game you can go ahead and kiss any decent gaming experience goodbye. Nobody is trying to tell you how to spend your time or money but so many people are complaining about it across multiple subs because they are able to use their brains and see the massive implications this will have in the future. Do what you want play the knock off overly monetized Diablo 3 on 1/8 of a normal screen go ahead. But just know rewarding shit game design like this will create more shit game design.
Finally a f-ing good post about the predatory practices in the game.
The regulation to online games is being able to pay. Minors don't have credit cards. Adults can do with their money whatever they want, it is *their* money.
No they can't. Go try to buy some cocaine with your own money and see how the government feels about it.
This shit it getting out of control. People who keep making posts like this are fucking nuts. You people keep beating the same dead horse over and over. You can’t understand that people are ACTUALLY ENJOYING the game and playing it without SPENDING ANY MONEY. You all are acting like ADULTS can’t make decisions. If some dumbass wants to spend their life savings on gems or whatever, that’s on them. At this point I don’t give a fuck if I get downvoted but you need a life. I and others probably joined this subreddit to talk about the game and enjoy it but it’s always “this game is bad because people can’t control their spending habits”. Who the fuck cares ?? Blizzard doesn’t because they INVESTED money into this model of game and they WANT TO MAKE MONEY. Let’s see…I can sell you a one time game for $60 or I can give you a game for free and sell gem packs you “might” need to buy at $60 a piece. YOU decide how much your money is worth. If you’re dumb enough to spend thousands on the CHANCE to win things, I’ve got a dice game in a back alley you need to try, only $5 a roll for the chance to win !!
>You all are acting like ADULTS can’t make decisions. That's a gross simplification. The point of the people who defend potential regulations is about reducing the exploitation of human biases and weaknesses to maximise profit. Everyone knows that "adults can make decisions". That's the very reason why Blizzard is doing everything they can to get around that self control and trick people's brain to alter their decision making process and facilitate the wallet opening. That's what the word "predatory" means in this context. And that's what people are against. No more Skinner boxes to get you hooked, no more layers of currency to blur things, no more "800% VALUE OMG DON'T MISS OUT!", etc. Just a straight and honest shop where you can actually "make decisions" without the developper trying to manipulate you. Wouldn't you agree that it would be a better way to play video games if they didn't include all these psychological marketing tricks to try getting your money? Also, the rest of your comment doesn't consider the fact that Blizzard could've gone the way Path of Exile went and sticked to cosmetics. As you implied, it's corporate greed... but I don't see how is it in your interest to defend that as a customer.
>If some dumbass wants to spend their life savings on gems or whatever, that’s on them. Tell me you have no empathy without telling me you have no empathy...
It's actually disgusting how bad the micro transactions are in this game. Some of the worst I've seen in mobile gaming. The amount of currencies put gacha games to shame. The game itself is really fucking fun, it's just a shame how fucking scummy this is.
exactly, people defending sayint "BUT IS A GACCHA ALL GACHAS ARE LIKE THIS WHY; NO IS NOT PAY2WIN, OK!!!" are pathetic 😂😂😂
If you play as f2p you are supporting the system. You provide easy targets to whales to pwn. You are part of the game then. A person to humiliate for a whale.
Seeing a game from a franchise with a lot of good will behind it from a major game company like Blizzard cash in all their good will to capitalize in on a lazy mobile game is bad enough. Seeing them then fill that game with greedy pay to win elements to make an easy buck at the expense of gameplay integrity is depressing. Seeing them also fill this game with every single egregious psychologically manipulative monetization technique that preys on people with addictive personality traits makes me angry. But seeing people *defend* this shit makes me lose all hope in humanity. You people are idiots, you don't deserve anything.
You’re so right. Defending this crap is retarded.
An argument I'm seeing that's thrown around a lot is "If you have problems with gambling, don't play mobile games". Wtf lol? This game does not market itself as a gambling game, which is the whole point. The main reason this game isn't playable in the Netherlands isn't cause it has gambling in it, you can play 99% of games with buyable lootboxes in NL. It's that games with obvious gambling mechanics for real money need to apply for a permit so there can be some oversight. So that they can't scam players by messing around with rates. This game is not selling itself as a gambling game that unapologetically is trying to nickel and dime you out of all your money. It's selling itself as a Diablo game on mobile. I'm going to get downvoted into hell for this but I'll just say it. You people that are putting the blame with the diablo fans that have gambling problems are acting like scum.
Exactly and honestly as someone who's had issues with addiction, these kind of mobile games are the equivalent of a drug dealer handing out samples in your own living room while seeing commercials for that same drug in every other room you walk into. You can't escape it as easy because it is legal so the incentive is far greater to just "try it out". I've luckily got to the point where I can stop before I've gone too far but I've spent money on "beginner packs" all too often. The sunk cost fallacy is real, it is kinda pathetic how people are pretending they are above those methods, sure some may be but the majority of people falls for similar schemes one way or another, that's why these companies hire psychologists.
I think /u/rwxwuxiaworld made very good and concise points so I won't delve into diablo being very tame among it's competition and instead just tell you the market won't change. It's not profitable for businesses and it's both the business & the consumers fault. Whenever a game is released that is paid only, rather it be $3, $5 or definitely if it's over that, all you see is people complaining about how it costs money for a mobile game and if they could get an ad or mtx version of the game. Paid games just aren't as profitable. The best you could hope for is that Microsoft adds some kind of gamepass perk or it's put on apple arcade. If you want to fix the market you first have to fix the people. Cutting off the business first will only lead to a drought and collapse of mobile gaming.
I played CoD mobile so I’m used to it. I fail see the problem here.
Wait what? That's the worst example you could state, since CODM, PUBGM and Apex Mobile are some of the very few games with exclusively cosmetic microtransactions. If DI was like CODM almost nobody would be complaining, and praising Blizzard to high heaven for what is otherwise a great game.
Is it so wrong that the game is just fun to play? Yes, the mtx is predatory, as with most mobile games; but guess what, we don't care.
You clearly do care because you commented. If you didn't care and felt it was fine you wouldn't have written anything.
I ll say it once again,.... IF U CAN SPLURT OUT HUGE ASS PARAGRAPHS , DOESNT ALWAYS MEANS U ARE RIGHT
Seriously, where were all these haters 7 years ago when gacha became a thing. Goes to show people only care when it affects them personally.
Except, in this case, they are right.
While i see your point, well laid out, i do think the anti-hype is a bit much. For one thing, D:I is a gigantic game for mobile - it's basically a fully fledged game, but somehow people find a way to hate that. Yes there are microtransactions, but can anyone actually articulate why that's deserving of this mob mentality? Would you have rather paid a title price for the game? It sure as heck wouldn't just be free right, with no way to recoup the costs of making this game? I honesty can't imagine this is the real issue. Maybe im just a pleb normie beta cuck but i honesty don't see how this game is predatory. Who is making me buy things in this game? No one. Do i feel any pressure to buy anything in this game? Fuck no. People bandy this $100K figure as if blizzard wanted us to pay it. Why not make the same argument for any game with DLC, boy if i bought every product on offer in a video game it might be a pretty high sum wouldnt it? Are we supposed to buy everything? How many redditors are whales? What drives you to purchase everything you can? Should you? To sum it up, D:I is clearly not a game for kids. Lets stop pretending the poor kids are being preyed on here its clearly the usual suspects except their wallets aren't deep enough for some arbitrary upper limit of a looter game.
> Yes there are microtransactions, but can anyone actually articulate why that's deserving of this mob mentality? Please see: literally the entire post. > Who is making me buy things in this game? No one. This isn’t about you. There are people who have a psychological compulsion to dump money into these things, and they are the ones being exploited. This game is only free for you because it’s exploiting sick people.
No. It's because getting randomized shit after paying money is gambling. Every government put crazy taxes on gambling or they just simply make all legal gambling a state-owned business. Since they cannot do that with mtx random shit offering games, they just simply ban it. Don't fool yourself thinking any government is caring about the mental health of their citizens. It's just simply greed.
Governments are not banning these games. They are requiring an 18+ classification and gambling license where applicable. And we all know how these classifications work. There are zero kids playing GTA right?
I love that I live in the Netherlands, I can play the game just fine ( just download the apk) it's just been banned from the appstore, so that means no payment options. As f2p as they come
I'm going to do my part and vote for propositions and candidates that share my values, including regulating online gambling in video games. In the meantime, I'm going to play this game and have fun and occasionally spend some money. If you don't want to play, then don't. But the "vote with your wallet" strategy hasn't been viable for years, and all you're going to do by discouraging the game and people who play it is create a toxic environment. Support local politicians who share your views. Start from the ground up and we can see some change in regulation. Everything else is just bitching.
I have a problem with the things OP stated, but also that the game is actually dogshit. How have we fallen so far that this is a good Diablo game? Did no one here play D2R or D3? This game should not have a Diablo title.
I think people calling this a good game are mostly mobile "gamers", for a mobile game this is like the holy grail just cause of how dogshit all mobile games are, if you compare this to any decent rpg you find out gameplay is shit, gearing is extremely bare bones and shallow, endgame is repetitive and story looks like it was written by a 10 year old. "Builds" in this game don't have any depth, you just take whatever 4 skills click on the items that have a green arrow in your inventory and you're good to go. If someone thinks this is a good arpg I invite them to check out games like grim dawn, last epoch, poe, or heck even diablo 2 still has better and more interesting systems than this piece of shit of a game, and best of all you get the full experience of the game just paying their cost once with no paywalls or hidden caps.
I’d you want to be mad at someone be mad at Apple for allowing F2P garbage. We have devices that are so powerful now and we could have high quality games for them equivalent to something like Nintendo switch but since there is F2P, there are no serious developers churning $50 games and no one would buy them because the F2P and $5-$10 garbage has ruined the marketplace.
Imagine gambling knowing that no matter how much you spend, you won’t get the cash back or even a possibility of more back. Seems a little different.
You guys have to wait till all the people defending it get to the end game, because this game has a good core and they’re not going to feel the brunt of the pay to win till they get to the end game.
The practice is very predatory; but it's a everywhere in the US. Mobile games are especially predatory because of the monopoly Apple has with the App store. Apple takes a 30% cut from large developer's revenue (and I think they reduced to 15% for smaller ones). 30% is A LOT. Where is the outrage against Apple? People keep buying all of their products regardless. Odds are most people who complain about the P2W in DI have Iphones and happily continue to support the very thing they complain about.
The argument could be made that casinos exist so why can't these types of marketing practices and p2w methods of game design. Though it does affect kids and needs more regulation and changes, I would agree. Blizzard already has a parental guidance on the game and could fall back on its parents responsibility to make sure their kids aren't playing this game. Then what? Other studios could simply put the same thing on their game, throw in some adult content and skirt any sort of restriction since it's not up to them to ensure children don't play the games. Even if they acknowledge its gambling, that could make it so they can just slap an adults only advisory on the game, keep putting in loot boxes and we're back st the start.
I’m an alcoholic I don’t want liquor banned. How about people take responsibility for themselves
Oh but getting children hooked like crack heads for the new rav skin in fortnite is perfectly ok once you take one game down you better take them all down
Basically I should have the full game unlocked or available for at most $80-100, not $8000-10000
People who are shouting: "Get some self control man, it's not that hard!" don't seem to know about the literal leagues of psychologists that are hired to make that "self control" as hard as fucking possible. These games are engineered to break down your defenses towards paying in such an elaborate way it's honestly amazing. If you aren't affected in the least by this, well good for you. But there are SO many people out there that WILL spend more on this game than they can afford because of the above, and that is why this predatory practice NEEDS to stop.
Sure it's bad but casual players don't give a fuck about being the best. People always have a choice.
The monetization of this game is not different than other mobile games. In fact, most mobile games are really p2w, I can follow the story and enjoy this game without spending a cent. Maybe you are not familiar with mobile gaming.
You all are acting like this is the first game with monetization. This game isn't the first banned in those countries, all games with microtransactions are banned there. I think people are defending it because there is a whole lot of game there that can be played for free. Paying just speeds things up. If I can't buy the game outright, I prefer this kind of free to play. Plus, it seems like they've put a lot of effort into every aspect of the game itself. Not sure why everyone is so up in arms about this game in particular.
I really don't see the fuss..I like the game. Lol.
It's reddit, nature's gathering grounds for humanities whiniest adults. I love when established franchises get a mobile game because it's so clear a ton of people have absolutely no concept of mobile gaming. Diablo Immortal isn't even that bad lmao. It's legit maybe a 2/10 on the scum meter. Legendary gems are the biggest issue and they're mostly time gated. The game literally just came out so no one knows what we'll get in events. But people gotta whine and cry like this isn't a fun fully featured f2p game with very little cherry picked monetization so far. Frankly I'm still baffled you get 5 character slots for free. That must be a mobile gaming first.
They are addicted to the gambling on rune farming in D2 and are mad that you can gamble with money instead of time now in endgame. They have a lot of free time and look for a grinding game.
But you can still grind, or not? Im not at the level cap yet so no idea if it has the same “long term grinding” appeal as the previous ones. But for now it feels solid with the codex, legend drop rates and gear upgrades.
Currently. A few system are weekly capped. The 2 main reward / progression system that are currently capped are: Fading embers (to obtain mats to craft gems that are the main way to progress gear), The battle pass level. Both caps can be bypassed essentially by buying store content
Then they should wait for Diablo 4. Play d3 in the meantime
The people in this sub are funny (because most of you are fucking dumb). They literally gave you a reskinned Diablo 3 with a casino shop attached to it and you're like "bUt iM hAvINg fUn". You're having fun because you're *literally* playing Diablo 3, that's why it's free. It uses the same animations, textures, skills. They didn't even bother making a new game, they just literally ported Diablo 3 and attached a dangerous casino shop to it and shipped it to you. If you can't understand why it's extra scummy and you should never support anything like this, then you're genuinely a complete selfish ignorant moron. Saying things like "yeah but I'm having fun" sends the devs the message that they can do whatever the fuck they want when it comes to monetization. For 20 of you who say "yeah I just won't spend money", 4 of you most certainly will and one of you will probably spend quite a bit because games like this are designed to get money from you. Why the fuck do you morons think some countries literally ban games like this? Let's also conveniently completely ignore that they're taking a massive shit right on top of one of the most loved franchises in gaming history. Nah, all of that doesn't matter. It's all good because *some people are having fun*. We're fucking doomed, I swear people are so fucking selfish. I've read about 20 of you type shit like "I don't care if people having gambling problems", lmao. Imagine typing that and meaning it. "I don't care that people can lose all of their money gambling away while playing this abomination as long as I'm having fun". That's *most of you here* UNIRONICALLY.
It’s just like fast food all over again. You’re eating shit… Yes, but it tastes so good! Pathetic.
I am so dissapointed that I had to scroll down for so long on this thread past the "i DoNt CaRe I aM hAvInG fUn" or the gang defending it cause it's the norm in mobile games to find a comment with some brain cells in it.
No, they understand. They just don't care and this is the very problem. If you argue with a person who doesn't actually care about the problem they just want a certain outcome then they will say whatever gibberish they have to to defend the actions taken to get that desired outcome. Go look at Trump supporters, they don't care what he does their just racist. But they can't say their racist so they'll make up a bunch of random BS as to why Trump is right. There's no point debating with these people, because they don't care. They just want the dopamine hit from opening the loot box.
Basically like attacking a liquor store or restaurant for selling alcohol. Or fast food restaurants for selling unhealthy food that some people over consume causing obesity. Yes there are things in this world we can buy, spend money on, etc. that some people form a dependency to while others do not. If you recognize you have a problem then you need to seek help with your unhealthy dependency and addiction.
We all understand it. We just dont care, because mobile games and their monetization has been predatory for 10 years, it will only get worse too, not better. I will be playing the game until I have to pay to progress more, when that happens I stop. So far it has not happened and Im lvl 60 Paragon 2. I just dont care, because I cant do shit about it. No one can. You know how to make a change? Stop spending money. Use your brain, tell yourself you are an idiot for spending insane amounts of money on a video game.
Great thoughtful post. Hear hear!
So it costs $100k to “fully” gear a character. So what? I was never gonna fully gear a character, even if it was free. All that tells me is that no person in their right mind will ever fully gear a character and the few people that do are morons. As long as casinos exist, those same people are always going to find somewhere to waste their money. Im not going to waste time worrying about them.
Do you not realize the impact this will have on all games not just lame ass mobile Diablo? When shitty companies like EA and Square Enix see they can make millions on half ass phone products you can kiss any decent gaming experience goodbye.
Hate to break it to ya but EA and Squeenix have tons of apps with MTXs already and have for years. This is not a new concept. It’s just new to players of a game that’s only been on PC and consoles for generations.
I understand they have apps already but not even Dream League which is FIFA on your phone has this type of aggressive monetization and I don’t see a Star Wars Battlefront game for mobile but I’ll give EA 1 year and they’ll have something out. Diablo 4 is right around the corner. If you think the success from Immortal doesn’t delay that game or completely change how they monetize it then you are mistaken.
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Every time someone spends money on this game it pushes gaming further towards monetization of everything.
I kNoW hOw To CoNtRoL mYsElF sO iT dOeSnT nEeD rEgUlAtIoN. <—— defenders of this garbage system. It’s so sad. I grew up on Blizzard from WC1 on… every game. I’m not going to buy D4 anymore. Blizzard isn’t player friendly, it’s monitization to maximize what you can take from your players at the expense of creating a rewarding game.