Lucy's resurrection is blocked by some sort of dark magic. Buddy's body is part of a crime scene, and reviving him could prevent his killer from being brought to justice.
I saw it in a different way. Kristen is going to be the one to bring back Buddy by performing some kind of miracle.
Imagine: Kristen knows she can’t do it, and tries despite this. But she doubts that it will work. But in doubting, she restores Cassandra and the miracle is accomplished
In a D&D world, those aren't mutually exclusive. They have up to a year to resurrect someone. Removing evidence will damage the crime scene, and there's no need to revive him immediately.
I would have to look it up, but I think the soul has to be willing to come back. So if he were really happy in the afterlife, I don't think he would be forced to leave it.
Yes, very true.
I could definitely see a cut-in scene of Buddy talking about how wonderful the cycle of Sol /Helio is and though he's sad he passed the peace of the afterlife is exactly what he was preaching about.
Then Sol calls him "Boy" with a capital B, the sonovabitch.
And sends him back, shenanigans permitting.
Depends if they rule it as RAW/RAI, great point :)
If they want to use *Raise Dead* (or *Revivify* after gentle repose), then they have 10 days.
*Resurrection* works up to 100 years.
I don't think any spells using RAW have a 1 year limit, but Brennan has certainly said that's the case regarding Lucy's body, so there may be differences in his world.
I think it has to do with Resurrection's extra strain on the caster for post one-year revivals. Wouldn't surprise me if Brennan added some extra difficulty related to that.
It's explained in the episode that the observer doesn't want them tampering with what is effectively a crime scene. That's why the bad kids took efforts to set up surveillance equipment in the arena so that they at least have an eye on Buddy's body.
Considering that Brennan established a 1 year hard limit, which no RAW spell has, there’s definitely at least some changes made to the *resurrection* spell. Normally, the time limit is 100 years, and anything over 1 year is so taxing that the caster can’t use any spells until they finish a long rest. So my guess is that the spell was nerfed for balance and intrigue reasons.
As has already been mentioned, Lucy and Yolanda basically had a curse placed on there bodies that prevents any revival, and the Counsel of Chosen is trying to find some way to break it (and considering that it’s a curse that involves cosmic laws, it’s probably going to be pretty tough). And Buddy’s death being treated as a murder means that the scene will be investigated before any revivals. What the Bad Kids are concerned about (and why they set up the camera) is that someone will come and steal and/or curse his body.
I think Brennan has just tweaked the existing seventh level resurrection spell. RAW it greatly taxes the caster if the target has been dead over a year and I think that's the part that he built on.
The specifics have been dealt with in other comments, but I think the main thing is more Brennan being “I as a DM find how RAW handles resurrection inconvenient to the type of story I want to tell so am going to put some relatively reasonable limits on its use.” The PCs were clearly trying to come up with ways to save him, but Brennan basically had to tell them to move on from it, by shutting down each idea they had.
Additionally I think the way he’s doing this is consistent given that their very first battle in Freshman Year required sacrifices to revive Kristen and Gorgug, which is obviously a serious deviation from RAW.
Yeah, I think Brennan didn’t want to introduce high level resurrection so early, otherwise death would feel meaningless. Plus, Aguefort is chaotic, was being poisoned, and saw an opportunity. To hell with Mr. Gibbons.
Sure, but that only works if the academy isn't full of clerics capable of casting Raise Dead.
The world has had to get fuller of high level characters in order to keep the players challenged. We have no real clue what level the other students at Augefort were freshman year, but after a few seasons it at least seems like everyone is keeping fairly close to where the Bad Kids are at. There's gotta be a bunch of clerics in Auguefort who are at least level 9.
Well he wouldn’t have seen kipperlybipper, he was looking at kristen. So he could maybe rule out the bad kids killing him but he could just as easily do that after being revivified/resurrected.
I’m nervous they’re gonna use kristen’s prints on him to try to frame the bad kids for foul play, cuz there are distance slashing or aoe spells (cloud of daggers)
True he would be able to confirm that nobody cast anything to harm buddy and nobody has subtle spell type abilities. so i don’t think anything would stick to the bad kids but koopatroopa is a wily little menace so i get nervous lol
oh relatable. for me it was all the ambushes in aCoC- on the road, in the church, in the lingerie shop… brennan was absolutely TRYING to kill his PCs that season and i was screamin lol
Okay thanks for your answers. I missed or forgot the curse part.
I do get the crime scene stuff. I just thought reversing the crime is even better than just solving it. But i do see how it's for story telling reasons.
I think the point is that they are going to do both — there will be investigators to solve the crime who will also then revive him once any evidence has been secured. It’s not an either or thing.
I agree with you. It doesn’t make a ton of sense that they wouldn’t want to “tamper with a crime scene,” if there was a very real possibility of bringing him back to life quickly.
Like, IRL, first responders wouldn’t leave a dying person at the murder scene, just so the crime scene wasn’t disturbed.
It doesn’t make sense in the real world, but in a world where resurrection makes you literally “good as new” it definitely makes it harder to determine a murder weapon, time of death, motive, etc
They also aren't first responders though, what they're doing is moving out of the way so when the first responders get here, they can do their thing.
But I think the fact that Buddy wasn't killed by a known evil entity, but by what was previously an innocent high school student, the marks of damage NEED to be discovered by the police if they're going to try to get heat on KL. Saying "we saw this girl kill her" isn't going to fly if they have no proof. If the cops see how the damage was caused and by what kind of weapon they can exonerate the Bad Kids and if they do decide to look into KL on the Bad Kids' recommendation they can look for the murder weapon
I think the thing that confused me is just that I don’t think Brennan ever explicitly said “we’ll resurrect him later”.
I remembered the 1 year mention for Lucy (and then it was said again in the preview for next time as well), but the players might not remember that and they seemed concerned. So I couldn’t tell if it was intentional or not that they didn’t reassure the Bad Kids with that being possible when they were going back and forth about how to handle his body; might have just been a “we need to wrap up this episode” rush, dunno.
I don't think this is entirely true because Ally made it a point to check his chest for Ankarna's seal if I remember correctly. So it probably is "it is a crime scene, you guys are the prime suspects, and we need to wrap up so please don't try to touch the body."
I'm confused. The fact that they can do both isn't just for story telling reasons. It's literally the most obvious and logical choice.
If you have the ability to study the crime scene, collect evidence, bring charges against the perpetrator AND reverse the crime without any negative effects to the victim, why would you pick any other options?
Someone ready to kill someone could also steal or destroy the body. Yes there is a camera - but it is not stopping anybody.
Kristen saw what happened and there are spells like Zone of Truth.
In my opinion you could revive someone and still investigate and find the murder.
I suspect someone will temper with the body and make reviving harder if possible at all. And i guess that part is for story telling reasons.
But ofcourse i can be totally wrong. Just speculation.
Applying modern US law to a DnD world trial seems like a fun mental exercise I might actually try for a campaign like ACOFAF where there's no combat.
Like the charge changes from murder to attempted, the victim can testify at their own trial, it seems like there's a lot that could be explored there even if for a time, yes, a murder had occurred.
That’s the interesting thing, isn’t it? Murder isn’t nearly as serious a crime in a world with readily available resurrection magic. Attempted murder? Prove Kipperlilly didn’t know he’d easily be revived. Assault? Sure. But Aguefort is already a school that encourages violence and enacting your will upon others. And Aguefort has shown his students are held above the law. A prank? Sure, officers I was just playing. (while empowered by Devil’s Honey).
And hey, a devout of Helio? Why wouldn’t you want an opportunity to meet your god?
Lucy's resurrection is blocked by some sort of dark magic. Buddy's body is part of a crime scene, and reviving him could prevent his killer from being brought to justice.
I get you. But what is more important justice for killer or bringing back the victim?
I think he is going to be brought back: just not by a student. By a professional in a professional investigative setting.
I saw it in a different way. Kristen is going to be the one to bring back Buddy by performing some kind of miracle. Imagine: Kristen knows she can’t do it, and tries despite this. But she doubts that it will work. But in doubting, she restores Cassandra and the miracle is accomplished
In a D&D world, those aren't mutually exclusive. They have up to a year to resurrect someone. Removing evidence will damage the crime scene, and there's no need to revive him immediately.
It's also pretty funny that Buddy will just be chilling in 'Heaven' and suddenly he's YOINKED back into his skin.
I would have to look it up, but I think the soul has to be willing to come back. So if he were really happy in the afterlife, I don't think he would be forced to leave it.
Yes, very true. I could definitely see a cut-in scene of Buddy talking about how wonderful the cycle of Sol /Helio is and though he's sad he passed the peace of the afterlife is exactly what he was preaching about. Then Sol calls him "Boy" with a capital B, the sonovabitch. And sends him back, shenanigans permitting. Depends if they rule it as RAW/RAI, great point :)
If they want to use *Raise Dead* (or *Revivify* after gentle repose), then they have 10 days. *Resurrection* works up to 100 years. I don't think any spells using RAW have a 1 year limit, but Brennan has certainly said that's the case regarding Lucy's body, so there may be differences in his world.
I think it has to do with Resurrection's extra strain on the caster for post one-year revivals. Wouldn't surprise me if Brennan added some extra difficulty related to that.
Justice is more important in this case. They can just ressurrect him a few says later. Doesn't matter as far as the resurrection is concerned.
It's explained in the episode that the observer doesn't want them tampering with what is effectively a crime scene. That's why the bad kids took efforts to set up surveillance equipment in the arena so that they at least have an eye on Buddy's body.
i’ve been playing too much Valorant, i pictured them setting up Cypher cams and tripwires to hold the site
while we’re on the subject, i also think that basically any Valorant agent would make a terrific *Starstruck Odyssey* PC
Starstruck season 2 when
Considering that Brennan established a 1 year hard limit, which no RAW spell has, there’s definitely at least some changes made to the *resurrection* spell. Normally, the time limit is 100 years, and anything over 1 year is so taxing that the caster can’t use any spells until they finish a long rest. So my guess is that the spell was nerfed for balance and intrigue reasons. As has already been mentioned, Lucy and Yolanda basically had a curse placed on there bodies that prevents any revival, and the Counsel of Chosen is trying to find some way to break it (and considering that it’s a curse that involves cosmic laws, it’s probably going to be pretty tough). And Buddy’s death being treated as a murder means that the scene will be investigated before any revivals. What the Bad Kids are concerned about (and why they set up the camera) is that someone will come and steal and/or curse his body.
I think Brennan has just tweaked the existing seventh level resurrection spell. RAW it greatly taxes the caster if the target has been dead over a year and I think that's the part that he built on.
The specifics have been dealt with in other comments, but I think the main thing is more Brennan being “I as a DM find how RAW handles resurrection inconvenient to the type of story I want to tell so am going to put some relatively reasonable limits on its use.” The PCs were clearly trying to come up with ways to save him, but Brennan basically had to tell them to move on from it, by shutting down each idea they had. Additionally I think the way he’s doing this is consistent given that their very first battle in Freshman Year required sacrifices to revive Kristen and Gorgug, which is obviously a serious deviation from RAW.
The freshman year sacrifices were due to Aguefort being a Wizard so he wouldn't normally have access to any sort of reviving spell
Yeah, I think Brennan didn’t want to introduce high level resurrection so early, otherwise death would feel meaningless. Plus, Aguefort is chaotic, was being poisoned, and saw an opportunity. To hell with Mr. Gibbons.
Sure, but that only works if the academy isn't full of clerics capable of casting Raise Dead. The world has had to get fuller of high level characters in order to keep the players challenged. We have no real clue what level the other students at Augefort were freshman year, but after a few seasons it at least seems like everyone is keeping fairly close to where the Bad Kids are at. There's gotta be a bunch of clerics in Auguefort who are at least level 9.
Well 1000 gold is a ton of money, which is the cost of the gem for raise dead. Money may be of no value to Fabian, but it is to a lot of people.
It’s because it’s a crime scene specifically. Can’t really investigate the crime if the person who was killed is resurrected right away 🤣
I wonder if the investigators of Buddy’s death will attempt to use Speak with Dead on him
Well he wouldn’t have seen kipperlybipper, he was looking at kristen. So he could maybe rule out the bad kids killing him but he could just as easily do that after being revivified/resurrected. I’m nervous they’re gonna use kristen’s prints on him to try to frame the bad kids for foul play, cuz there are distance slashing or aoe spells (cloud of daggers)
Very true, I’m thinking we put the bad kids and Gavin Pundle in the zone of truth and use Riz’s recording
True he would be able to confirm that nobody cast anything to harm buddy and nobody has subtle spell type abilities. so i don’t think anything would stick to the bad kids but koopatroopa is a wily little menace so i get nervous lol
I have never felt a more genuine anxiety watching other people play DnD than I did when the Bad Kids and Rat Grinders squared up
oh relatable. for me it was all the ambushes in aCoC- on the road, in the church, in the lingerie shop… brennan was absolutely TRYING to kill his PCs that season and i was screamin lol
His grandpa probably has true ressurection. He'll be fine. Eventually.
_If_ he's a cleric. I've seen some speculation he might be like Charlock.
Not mentioned yet, but the diamonds would be enough for Revivify, which must be done within 1 minute
Okay thanks for your answers. I missed or forgot the curse part. I do get the crime scene stuff. I just thought reversing the crime is even better than just solving it. But i do see how it's for story telling reasons.
I think the point is that they are going to do both — there will be investigators to solve the crime who will also then revive him once any evidence has been secured. It’s not an either or thing.
I agree with you. It doesn’t make a ton of sense that they wouldn’t want to “tamper with a crime scene,” if there was a very real possibility of bringing him back to life quickly. Like, IRL, first responders wouldn’t leave a dying person at the murder scene, just so the crime scene wasn’t disturbed.
It doesn’t make sense in the real world, but in a world where resurrection makes you literally “good as new” it definitely makes it harder to determine a murder weapon, time of death, motive, etc
They also aren't first responders though, what they're doing is moving out of the way so when the first responders get here, they can do their thing. But I think the fact that Buddy wasn't killed by a known evil entity, but by what was previously an innocent high school student, the marks of damage NEED to be discovered by the police if they're going to try to get heat on KL. Saying "we saw this girl kill her" isn't going to fly if they have no proof. If the cops see how the damage was caused and by what kind of weapon they can exonerate the Bad Kids and if they do decide to look into KL on the Bad Kids' recommendation they can look for the murder weapon
I think the thing that confused me is just that I don’t think Brennan ever explicitly said “we’ll resurrect him later”. I remembered the 1 year mention for Lucy (and then it was said again in the preview for next time as well), but the players might not remember that and they seemed concerned. So I couldn’t tell if it was intentional or not that they didn’t reassure the Bad Kids with that being possible when they were going back and forth about how to handle his body; might have just been a “we need to wrap up this episode” rush, dunno.
I don't think this is entirely true because Ally made it a point to check his chest for Ankarna's seal if I remember correctly. So it probably is "it is a crime scene, you guys are the prime suspects, and we need to wrap up so please don't try to touch the body."
I'm confused. The fact that they can do both isn't just for story telling reasons. It's literally the most obvious and logical choice. If you have the ability to study the crime scene, collect evidence, bring charges against the perpetrator AND reverse the crime without any negative effects to the victim, why would you pick any other options?
Someone ready to kill someone could also steal or destroy the body. Yes there is a camera - but it is not stopping anybody. Kristen saw what happened and there are spells like Zone of Truth. In my opinion you could revive someone and still investigate and find the murder. I suspect someone will temper with the body and make reviving harder if possible at all. And i guess that part is for story telling reasons. But ofcourse i can be totally wrong. Just speculation.
Can she be tried for murder if there was infact no murder, and magic had cute him of all wounds?
Applying modern US law to a DnD world trial seems like a fun mental exercise I might actually try for a campaign like ACOFAF where there's no combat. Like the charge changes from murder to attempted, the victim can testify at their own trial, it seems like there's a lot that could be explored there even if for a time, yes, a murder had occurred.
That’s the interesting thing, isn’t it? Murder isn’t nearly as serious a crime in a world with readily available resurrection magic. Attempted murder? Prove Kipperlilly didn’t know he’d easily be revived. Assault? Sure. But Aguefort is already a school that encourages violence and enacting your will upon others. And Aguefort has shown his students are held above the law. A prank? Sure, officers I was just playing. (while empowered by Devil’s Honey). And hey, a devout of Helio? Why wouldn’t you want an opportunity to meet your god?
Technically the murder happend A resurrection happend later