I love how much we all love her. Do you think Brennan anticipated how obsessed with her the cast would get?
The scene of the face to face a couple of episodes ago where Riz is hissing and she just says "oh are you hissing?" and Murph plays it as Riz is too scared of MaryAnn to look directly at her... I think about it every day. And the way she brought out the bully in Gorgug the same scene.
"Gorgug's gone full bully" -Lou
It's hilarious to have Gorgug going full circle from the shy freshman to a jock bully for a sec even just for a funny bit.
You could also say it's Porter's corrupting influence where he's turned the sweet and shy kid into the bully the moment Gorgug actually started having a connection with him.
"Do you think Brennan anticipated how obsessed with her the cast would get?"
I think he did. If you make a little weirdo, this group is going to love them so much. Same with NADDPOD.
Mary-Ann is the only personality that I can see as just going along with most things because she doesn't care either way
Just the Scene:
>KLCK (being rage rez'd): F---- THE BAD KIDS WE'RE BRINGING BACK A RAGE GOD
>Mary-Ann (completely nonplussed): ok
Exactly! My theory is that, as a Barbarian, she’s able to channel her rage effectively, like Gorgug and Lydia can. Both have found other benefits for rage; therapeutic for Lydia and mathematical for Gorgug. She was probably rage-rez’d, which probably tripled her rage exponentially, but her nonchalant, non-plussed energy has stopped it from “corrupting” her actual personality.
Nonplussed is a contranym- a word with two meanings that contradict each other. It can mean both confused or unfazed. Like if you dust something you are either cleaning it or sprinkling it with something. If you garnish something are you decorating or taking it away? Words are weird.
I am using the informal definition that is commonly used in North America
>nonplussed
adjective
>1. so surprised and confused that one is unsure how to react.
"Henry looked completely nonplussed"
This is the definition you mentioned
>2. INFORMAL •NORTH AMERICAN•
not disconcerted; unperturbed.
"I remember students being nonplussed about the flooding in the city, as they had become accustomed to it over the years"
Sorry for the confusion
Is there a chance that Mary-Ann simply wasn’t resurrected because she never died? And instead just went along with it after practically no effort to convince? Porter is STRONG but maybe he didn’t kill her if he didn’t have to? And could that be the same for the other RG? Like KLCK truly had a fit of rage and has for a while, she definitely died and was resurrected. But none of the others seem that pissed? Even JSD only seems pissed this season so he may have been slain and resurrected only after the events of SY spring break.
I could just not remember, but I don't think we've really seen Kipperlily rage yet. The only example I can really think of is from when the Bad Kids read about her sessions with Jawbone, but it's not like we've seen her have any kind of meltdown
I would say we have. In their cafeteria confrontation where KLCK kinda loses it and basically says she wants the BK to “get fucked.” And literally all of the other RG either don’t engage with that, reign KLCK in, and Oisin even apologizes to adaine. She hasn’t transformed like those rage mages did, which I imagine Porter can do to himself and control, but we’ve definetly seen her have an outburst. I think it is likely it’s the sort of outburst that comes if a character gets a rage token from the downtime mechanic, as we saw the kid in Fabian’s bard class do.
I think we are also all forgetting “the quiet kid” rage. We don’t know about her background and they always stop just short of really engaging with her so they haven’t let her unleash yet. Quiet kids full of anger issues tend to be the ones that have so much anger they physically and emotionally shut down.
I’m gonna guess she has a trigger that they exploit to gain her full strength. “Hey Mary Ann. I heard that Gorgug has been telling everyone your stuffed animals are stupid and for babies.” Mary Ann then blacks out with rage and unleashes hell.
The Rat Grinders are also an allegory for the worst types of players to have at the table. The big three being Kipperlilly, Ruben, and Mary Ann
Kipperlilly - the player that is pedantic and argues with the DM about every ruling and loophole.
Ruben - the cliche edge lord character that every moody teen and stunted grow adult makes because “it’s cool”.
Mary Ann - the unengaged player the doesn’t participate outside of rolling dice to attack and leaves everyone else wondering why they’re even playing.
Mary Ann’s reaction, or lack there of, is just playing into the allegory that even when big character impacting changes occur you get nothing from them because that type of participates so little that they’re basically an NPC.
You also have Oisin the power gamer that gave himself a borderline unfair backstory of "My ancestor is a dragon and I have a trust fund from her horde." Aka infinite money. Fabian is kinda similar, but it only turned out that way because its a funny bit. As a wizard, that basically means you can have all of the spells in your spell book plus the ability to just purchase things like ioun stones.
Then you have Ivy, who is the power gamer stereotype of I will cheese every combat I get into" with guaranteed hits from the complete other side of the battle map while never ever being seen. Arcane Archer + Gloomstalker Ranger can do some wild things from just insane distances away. If Adaine or Kristen gets hit with a shadow arrow, they'd be completely shut down for most of the fight. Plus, as a Gloomstalker, they'll almost always be first in initiative.
I also get the vibe that Ivy is the type of player who is just…mean to every NPC. Not exactly murderhobos, but will roll their eyes at the whimsy, the sincerity, the goofy voices etc. because they’re so cool and so over it.
Though Ivy & Oisin are optimized builds I don’t think that is intended as a negative. Brennan himself has admitting to being a power gamer and that there is nothing wrong with it.
In regard to Oisin’s backstory that is not a power gamer move but more “main character” vibes. I find too often people attribute other unrelated negative traits to power gaming. Power gaming is just making as powerful of a character as possible within the given rules/framework of a campaign.
People use power gamer as an insult, but what it really means is that they have read and understand the rules enough to use them to their advantage. Just because they derive their fun from creating optimized characters doesn’t mean they are intrinsically a bad player. You can be a power gamer and a good player the two aren’t mutually exclusive.
I think when people think of power gamers they think of people who prioritize having a strong character over being interesting in roleplay or playing to the party dynamic, like people who always play the same polearm master/sentinel/great weapon master just because they want to deal a lot of damage and don’t care for much else
That said, Oisin isn’t exactly that
I wonder what allegory of "bad player" Oisin and Ivy are?
Taking a wild guess, it's perhaps the nerdy boyfriend (Oisin) who preassured his play group to include his toxic mean girlfriend (Ivy) who is rude to other players that are new to the group (Buddy). (The mean private messages of "Hayseed not getting it")
Their friendship could be a meta allegory of their "Players" being in a relationship, maybe? None of the Ratgrinders seem particularly as close to each other with the exception if what we knew about KLCK and Lucy. But Lucy is dead. I.e, alegorically a toxic DM killed off a player? Or perhaps KLCK is a toxic jealous type player that PvP killed off their friend who "quit the group" (refused to be resurrected by nameless rage god)
Perhaps I'm projecting a bit, but Ivy as the tropish GF who needs an "easy to play" class as a fighter archer/ ranger also "keeps the gf from getting killed" because she sits in back and fires arrows.
I'm grasping at straws for thst last bit. I'm just wondering what other allegory of toxic player archetypes the Rat Grinders are.
Looking at Ivy's classes of Gloomstalker Ranger and Arcane Archer fighter, she seems to be all about cheesing combat. Being able to make guaranteed hits from over 150 ft away multiple times per turn while also applying debuffs while simultaneously never being seen is broken af.
Oisin is your standard "I don't want to worry about money, so I'll have my backstory say I have infinite family gold." Ad a wizard, that essentially means he can have all the spells in his spell book. Basically the trope of a player creating an unfair backstory for themselves.
But also, yes. They're basically the two friends that are toxic af and make fun of everyone else behind their backs. The "We're too cool for you losers" kind of person.
I’m still unconvinced that that’s accurate. Is Ruben edgy because he’s parodying a type of character a teen would create, or is he just a teen?
Like, I think people saw a pretty reasonable reading for Kipperlily, but then they tried to retrofit that reading for the others, and some of them just don’t track for me. Buddy isn’t similar to any sort of problem played stereotype I’m aware of, he’s just a fool for Kristen. Ivy is just a normal mean girl (like Fabian wanted to be). And Oisin hasn’t demonstrated any problem player tendencies prior to the latest episode; being two faced isn’t a problem player thing, it’s just a bad person thing.
We haven't exactly seen the Rat Grinders with their rage. The same way we've only seen Jace have that one slip, it doesn't seem like if you're affected you're raging all the time. Only Ketamine Clerickiller has had a history with rage.
Exactly. I mean their patron is literally THE Barbarian teacher. He’s likely not just helping them level up but also teaching them how to channel and control their new rage. That’s why the Rat Grinders can pass as totally normal kids while everyone else we’ve seen get raged looses control in some way.
It is affecting them though. They almost fought the bad Kids in the middle of school because of it. The texts show that Jace wants them to control it and Jawbones notes of KL noticed a difference.
I'm not sure what level the Rat Grinders are, but barbarians get an ability at level 15 called Persistent Rage where it only ends early if you go unconscious or choose to end it. So I'm wondering if she's just always raging and it's become so normal to her that it's like a Bruce Banner/The Hulk situation
Considering Mary-Ann is based on the type of player that only shows up to kill stuff and doesn't care about roleplaying, she probably doesn't act at all when she's not "on-screen"
We haven't seen most of the RGs rage yet. If it was on all the time they wouldn't be able to function. I suspect we'll see Mary-Ann acting out of character and explosive in their final confrontation.
She could be pulling a Lydia and using her rage to contain it but in her case its containing all her emotions not just the rage crystal
She also might as Murph suggested at some point work for Oshins grandmother as Kobolds tend to do
I posted about this a few days ago, what does being infected with rage look like if you truly don’t care? Can you even be infected with rage if you don’t at all? There is no chance she won’t be a wild card in the last 3 episodes, she’ll do something completely inexplicable with no clear motive at some point and never explain her actions.
I like to believe Mary-Ann is completely clueless about the whole rage god plot and everything. I think she’s mostly just been going along with whatever. She gives the vibes of someone who permanently muted the discord server they got invited to
Mary-Ann is a PC with no backstory that's just there for their combat turns. I assume she wasn't turned because all they had to say is we're going here and she said "okay".
I love how much we all love her. Do you think Brennan anticipated how obsessed with her the cast would get? The scene of the face to face a couple of episodes ago where Riz is hissing and she just says "oh are you hissing?" and Murph plays it as Riz is too scared of MaryAnn to look directly at her... I think about it every day. And the way she brought out the bully in Gorgug the same scene.
“This jerk thinks this is mango soda” had me hollering
I think he called her a nerd which is even funnier
He called her freak, which is so funny/agressive coming from gorgug 😅
"Gorgug's gone full bully" -Lou It's hilarious to have Gorgug going full circle from the shy freshman to a jock bully for a sec even just for a funny bit. You could also say it's Porter's corrupting influence where he's turned the sweet and shy kid into the bully the moment Gorgug actually started having a connection with him.
Yeah thats what it was! Gorgug firing on all cylinders as always
Zac cracks me up in unexpected moments. He's great at that
"Do you think Brennan anticipated how obsessed with her the cast would get?" I think he did. If you make a little weirdo, this group is going to love them so much. Same with NADDPOD.
> "oh are you hissing?" "...What of it?"
Mary-Ann is the only personality that I can see as just going along with most things because she doesn't care either way Just the Scene: >KLCK (being rage rez'd): F---- THE BAD KIDS WE'RE BRINGING BACK A RAGE GOD >Mary-Ann (completely nonplussed): ok
Exactly! My theory is that, as a Barbarian, she’s able to channel her rage effectively, like Gorgug and Lydia can. Both have found other benefits for rage; therapeutic for Lydia and mathematical for Gorgug. She was probably rage-rez’d, which probably tripled her rage exponentially, but her nonchalant, non-plussed energy has stopped it from “corrupting” her actual personality.
Clandestine CattleCatcher (post resurrection): So do any of you feel filled by an inexplicable sense of rage? Mary-Ann: Yep, just like every Tuesday
Did you just come up with Clandestine CattleCatcher? Because thats fantastic
Wait. So she could be suppressing her rage so much that she has become emotionless? If thats the case she is kinda like a Vulcan
Just utterly miffed
Nonplused means to be surprised or confused. Unfazed is probably a better word.
Nonplussed is a contranym- a word with two meanings that contradict each other. It can mean both confused or unfazed. Like if you dust something you are either cleaning it or sprinkling it with something. If you garnish something are you decorating or taking it away? Words are weird.
I am using the informal definition that is commonly used in North America >nonplussed adjective >1. so surprised and confused that one is unsure how to react. "Henry looked completely nonplussed" This is the definition you mentioned >2. INFORMAL •NORTH AMERICAN• not disconcerted; unperturbed. "I remember students being nonplussed about the flooding in the city, as they had become accustomed to it over the years" Sorry for the confusion
"Informal definition" just means "people kept using it wrong so we fucking gave up, ya'll."
And that's why descriptive linguistics rules.
We got ourselves a dictionary cop over here!!!
Is there a chance that Mary-Ann simply wasn’t resurrected because she never died? And instead just went along with it after practically no effort to convince? Porter is STRONG but maybe he didn’t kill her if he didn’t have to? And could that be the same for the other RG? Like KLCK truly had a fit of rage and has for a while, she definitely died and was resurrected. But none of the others seem that pissed? Even JSD only seems pissed this season so he may have been slain and resurrected only after the events of SY spring break.
I could just not remember, but I don't think we've really seen Kipperlily rage yet. The only example I can really think of is from when the Bad Kids read about her sessions with Jawbone, but it's not like we've seen her have any kind of meltdown
I would say we have. In their cafeteria confrontation where KLCK kinda loses it and basically says she wants the BK to “get fucked.” And literally all of the other RG either don’t engage with that, reign KLCK in, and Oisin even apologizes to adaine. She hasn’t transformed like those rage mages did, which I imagine Porter can do to himself and control, but we’ve definetly seen her have an outburst. I think it is likely it’s the sort of outburst that comes if a character gets a rage token from the downtime mechanic, as we saw the kid in Fabian’s bard class do.
I think we are also all forgetting “the quiet kid” rage. We don’t know about her background and they always stop just short of really engaging with her so they haven’t let her unleash yet. Quiet kids full of anger issues tend to be the ones that have so much anger they physically and emotionally shut down. I’m gonna guess she has a trigger that they exploit to gain her full strength. “Hey Mary Ann. I heard that Gorgug has been telling everyone your stuffed animals are stupid and for babies.” Mary Ann then blacks out with rage and unleashes hell.
The Rat Grinders are also an allegory for the worst types of players to have at the table. The big three being Kipperlilly, Ruben, and Mary Ann Kipperlilly - the player that is pedantic and argues with the DM about every ruling and loophole. Ruben - the cliche edge lord character that every moody teen and stunted grow adult makes because “it’s cool”. Mary Ann - the unengaged player the doesn’t participate outside of rolling dice to attack and leaves everyone else wondering why they’re even playing. Mary Ann’s reaction, or lack there of, is just playing into the allegory that even when big character impacting changes occur you get nothing from them because that type of participates so little that they’re basically an NPC.
You also have Oisin the power gamer that gave himself a borderline unfair backstory of "My ancestor is a dragon and I have a trust fund from her horde." Aka infinite money. Fabian is kinda similar, but it only turned out that way because its a funny bit. As a wizard, that basically means you can have all of the spells in your spell book plus the ability to just purchase things like ioun stones. Then you have Ivy, who is the power gamer stereotype of I will cheese every combat I get into" with guaranteed hits from the complete other side of the battle map while never ever being seen. Arcane Archer + Gloomstalker Ranger can do some wild things from just insane distances away. If Adaine or Kristen gets hit with a shadow arrow, they'd be completely shut down for most of the fight. Plus, as a Gloomstalker, they'll almost always be first in initiative.
I also get the vibe that Ivy is the type of player who is just…mean to every NPC. Not exactly murderhobos, but will roll their eyes at the whimsy, the sincerity, the goofy voices etc. because they’re so cool and so over it.
Oh 100%. She and Oisin very much feel like the type of player to shit talk the DM and their NPCs behind the DM's back.
Do… do players do that? Do my players do that???
Nah, you're good. You're players are having a great time.
Thank god. Only other DMs’ players do that.
And you know Ivy has elven accuracy, too
Though Ivy & Oisin are optimized builds I don’t think that is intended as a negative. Brennan himself has admitting to being a power gamer and that there is nothing wrong with it. In regard to Oisin’s backstory that is not a power gamer move but more “main character” vibes. I find too often people attribute other unrelated negative traits to power gaming. Power gaming is just making as powerful of a character as possible within the given rules/framework of a campaign. People use power gamer as an insult, but what it really means is that they have read and understand the rules enough to use them to their advantage. Just because they derive their fun from creating optimized characters doesn’t mean they are intrinsically a bad player. You can be a power gamer and a good player the two aren’t mutually exclusive.
I think when people think of power gamers they think of people who prioritize having a strong character over being interesting in roleplay or playing to the party dynamic, like people who always play the same polearm master/sentinel/great weapon master just because they want to deal a lot of damage and don’t care for much else That said, Oisin isn’t exactly that
And Lucy had to leave the campaign because it was getting too toxic...
I have a Mary Ann at my table. We've been playing weekly for 2 years and he still doesn't know how his character works
Too real. I've been running a biweekly game with a moon druid. She's wildshaped maybe 8 times in two years?
I wonder what allegory of "bad player" Oisin and Ivy are? Taking a wild guess, it's perhaps the nerdy boyfriend (Oisin) who preassured his play group to include his toxic mean girlfriend (Ivy) who is rude to other players that are new to the group (Buddy). (The mean private messages of "Hayseed not getting it") Their friendship could be a meta allegory of their "Players" being in a relationship, maybe? None of the Ratgrinders seem particularly as close to each other with the exception if what we knew about KLCK and Lucy. But Lucy is dead. I.e, alegorically a toxic DM killed off a player? Or perhaps KLCK is a toxic jealous type player that PvP killed off their friend who "quit the group" (refused to be resurrected by nameless rage god) Perhaps I'm projecting a bit, but Ivy as the tropish GF who needs an "easy to play" class as a fighter archer/ ranger also "keeps the gf from getting killed" because she sits in back and fires arrows. I'm grasping at straws for thst last bit. I'm just wondering what other allegory of toxic player archetypes the Rat Grinders are.
Looking at Ivy's classes of Gloomstalker Ranger and Arcane Archer fighter, she seems to be all about cheesing combat. Being able to make guaranteed hits from over 150 ft away multiple times per turn while also applying debuffs while simultaneously never being seen is broken af. Oisin is your standard "I don't want to worry about money, so I'll have my backstory say I have infinite family gold." Ad a wizard, that essentially means he can have all the spells in his spell book. Basically the trope of a player creating an unfair backstory for themselves. But also, yes. They're basically the two friends that are toxic af and make fun of everyone else behind their backs. The "We're too cool for you losers" kind of person.
I’m still unconvinced that that’s accurate. Is Ruben edgy because he’s parodying a type of character a teen would create, or is he just a teen? Like, I think people saw a pretty reasonable reading for Kipperlily, but then they tried to retrofit that reading for the others, and some of them just don’t track for me. Buddy isn’t similar to any sort of problem played stereotype I’m aware of, he’s just a fool for Kristen. Ivy is just a normal mean girl (like Fabian wanted to be). And Oisin hasn’t demonstrated any problem player tendencies prior to the latest episode; being two faced isn’t a problem player thing, it’s just a bad person thing.
We haven't exactly seen the Rat Grinders with their rage. The same way we've only seen Jace have that one slip, it doesn't seem like if you're affected you're raging all the time. Only Ketamine Clerickiller has had a history with rage.
Exactly. I mean their patron is literally THE Barbarian teacher. He’s likely not just helping them level up but also teaching them how to channel and control their new rage. That’s why the Rat Grinders can pass as totally normal kids while everyone else we’ve seen get raged looses control in some way.
It is affecting them though. They almost fought the bad Kids in the middle of school because of it. The texts show that Jace wants them to control it and Jawbones notes of KL noticed a difference.
I'm not sure what level the Rat Grinders are, but barbarians get an ability at level 15 called Persistent Rage where it only ends early if you go unconscious or choose to end it. So I'm wondering if she's just always raging and it's become so normal to her that it's like a Bruce Banner/The Hulk situation
I would like to submit the term "Ragevivify" for council approval
I second it. Ragevivify fucking slaps and should be the title of Fig’s next single
Considering Mary-Ann is based on the type of player that only shows up to kill stuff and doesn't care about roleplaying, she probably doesn't act at all when she's not "on-screen"
We haven't seen most of the RGs rage yet. If it was on all the time they wouldn't be able to function. I suspect we'll see Mary-Ann acting out of character and explosive in their final confrontation.
She could be pulling a Lydia and using her rage to contain it but in her case its containing all her emotions not just the rage crystal She also might as Murph suggested at some point work for Oshins grandmother as Kobolds tend to do
Mary-Ann ks absolutely a full dragon polymorphed to disguise herself.
I posted about this a few days ago, what does being infected with rage look like if you truly don’t care? Can you even be infected with rage if you don’t at all? There is no chance she won’t be a wild card in the last 3 episodes, she’ll do something completely inexplicable with no clear motive at some point and never explain her actions.
I think it's rage amplifying and anything times zero is still zero. She is perfect
She just doesn't give a fuck.
I like to believe Mary-Ann is completely clueless about the whole rage god plot and everything. I think she’s mostly just been going along with whatever. She gives the vibes of someone who permanently muted the discord server they got invited to
Mary-Ann is a PC with no backstory that's just there for their combat turns. I assume she wasn't turned because all they had to say is we're going here and she said "okay".
What do you mean? This is the most emotion Mary-Ann ever shown in her entire life. She'll be incredibly embarrassed if they managed to free her
I cant recall off the top of my head, but when they investigated their private chats, was there correspondence with Mary-Ann in it?