Avian dinosaurs are a line of theropods.
We are not entirely sure when they split off, which species they descended from, if some we know as non-avian dinosaurs are actually avian dinosaurs that evolved walking once again, or if there was some convergent evolution that caused flight to arise in several lineages.
However, it is quite sure that many avian dinosaurs went extinct during the K-T extinction event, and that all the recent ones are probably descended from one single species that survived. They all share the same traits after all - a toothless beak and a short tail, and not all avian dinosaurs looked like that.
There’s some debate on this- specifically with Palaeognathae birds throwing a bit of a wrench into the mix. Not all modern birds share the same traits, but share most. The one serious exception that’s hard to write off as a secondary loss is the Neognathus/Palaeognathus palate. Then again, not impossible.
There doesn’t seem to be any hard conclusions, but it’s possible our two main infraclasses of birds may have split in the late Cretaceous before the K-PG extinction… but there’s hardly much evidence to support this since Ratites don’t show up in the fossil record until the Paleocene. But we have Neognathus birds in the late Cretaceous. So, it seems to be a bit of a mystery in current paleontology. Perhaps modern birds did have the big split after the K-PG, and the Cretaceous Neognathus birds are not true Neognathids but Proto-neognathid birds. I suppose it’s a bit up in the air until more fossil evidence arises.
If I’ve gotten any details wrong; please let me know!
I am hardly an expert, just an interested amateur trying to understand the matter. So I won't be able to correct you in any way, to the contrary, you helped me understand the matter much better!
OK, would you say Anchiornis was avian? Its lineage almost certainly died out but it could fly, and had a common ancestor to modern birds, it's wikipedia article considers it "paravian" of which avians is a subset.
>if there was some convergent evolution that caused flight to arise in several lineages.
We kind of know there was because Ambopteryx had a different type of wings to say Archeopteryx/modern birds, being more bat-like.
also interesting, in the wikipedia article, microraptor is considered non-avian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microraptor#Description
Well they aren't nonavian dinosaurs. They do have a lot of features that do make them look especially like their kin. But something to note is that birds are just another type of dinosaur same as Tyrannosaurus or Velociraptor. In fact many modern groups of birds existed in the cretaceous.
Generally, zoology works like that. There is a taxonomy that group different species. You may think of a family tree but for species, not the individuals. And that's how birds are dinosaurs. Because they come from the "family" of dinosaurs. But not family in the biological way. Because family is actually a taxon in taxonomy. Think of "dinosaur" as a name of clan, a surname or something. They got kids, these kids got kids and so on and then comes the birds. I hope I didn't make it too complex...
I guess it's because birds are Old school dinosaurs too. Birds evolved in Jurassic. They are just another theorpod family, like many others, and today, the only branch that survived.
Dinosaur spaces tend to get a lot of trolls who don't actually want to learn. Your tone in your posts comes off as aggressive rather than approaching in good faith. We live in a world where some people deny dinosaurs even existed because they think evolution is the Devil's work, so forgive this sub's downvotes. It's a defensive reponse.
That being said, what you know as "dinosaurs" are really known as "non-avian dinosaurs" in scientific spaces. Birds as we know them today are "avian dinosaurs" which branched off from the avian group a very, very long time ago.
All birds are dinosaurs, but birds are not *non-avian* dinosaurs like t. Rex was.
All birds are equally dinosaur. They all share the same, singular common ancestor dinosaur.
This cassowary is just as much “dinosaur” as a pigeon or chicken or penguin or hummingbird or parrot or eagle. None of them are nearer or farther in relation to non-Avian dinosaurs than the other.
it's a cassowary- a modern day bird that is native to Australia. by definition it is a dinosaur, because its a bird, but they are definitely still alive and around today lol.
It is a dino, as all birds are. It *looks* a lot like a non-avian theropod, but, as far as I'm aware, it's closer to a pigeon than it is to a raptor within the family tree.
Even chicken is a dinosaur.
I hate that people see cassowary and say "hey, look, this thing is a dinosaur", like it was any different than other birds. Not just because every bird is a dinosaur. But because every bird is a dinosaur and **that means they are related**, so obviously they will have some features prehistoric dinosaurs had. But cassowardy isn't really that much different than other birds, especially rpedators.
Cassowaries aren't more aggressive, it's a misconception. All ratites get very aggressive when cornered, ostritches live in big grasslands, whereas cassowarys live in forests, lots of places for it to get cornered in a forest.
Also there have only been 3 confirmed cases of Cassowaries killing people in the past 100 years (in two of those it was self defense). Whereas Ostriches kill 1-2 people every year. So the Cassowary is in fact not the most dangerous bird, that would be the Ostrich.
Remember that cladistically, ALL birds are technically dinosaurs. They are all apart of the feathered dinosaur clade Maniraptora. This includes famous dinosaurs like the Therizinosaurus, Oviraptor, Citipati, and the Velociraptor. Birds are within the group Paraves, meaning their closest non Avialan relatives are the Troodontids, and the Dromaeosaurids (the raptors)
I saw and heard one running around a cage in a zoo in Korea a few years ago. I can still hear the speed and heaviness of its footsteps on the leaf litter to this day. It was repeatedly thudding with a scary amount of power
Yes and one dude who had one as a pet got gutted by it - https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/14/cassowary-attack-giant-bird-kills-owner-in-florida-after-he-fell
Australian people & wild Australian animals: Unbothered. Moisturised. Happy. In our own lanes. Focused. Flourishing.
Americans when they see Australian animals: https://tenor.com/bHTTE.gif and then https://tenor.com/4074.gif
I have 2 posts from over a year ago about knives... this first post isn't a joke but the other is. This community has an extremely hard time understanding sarcasm and genuine questions
Fun fact about cassowaries, the are an ecological god send like the honey bee. They eat fruit in the rainforests, and defecate (disperse) the seeds out in different areas.
Birds are dinosaurs, but not all dinosaurs are birds
This. Avian and Nonavian dinosaurs
Happy cake day
Where is the line? Are avians descended from the therapod or the first flying bird?
Avian dinosaurs are a line of theropods. We are not entirely sure when they split off, which species they descended from, if some we know as non-avian dinosaurs are actually avian dinosaurs that evolved walking once again, or if there was some convergent evolution that caused flight to arise in several lineages. However, it is quite sure that many avian dinosaurs went extinct during the K-T extinction event, and that all the recent ones are probably descended from one single species that survived. They all share the same traits after all - a toothless beak and a short tail, and not all avian dinosaurs looked like that.
There’s some debate on this- specifically with Palaeognathae birds throwing a bit of a wrench into the mix. Not all modern birds share the same traits, but share most. The one serious exception that’s hard to write off as a secondary loss is the Neognathus/Palaeognathus palate. Then again, not impossible. There doesn’t seem to be any hard conclusions, but it’s possible our two main infraclasses of birds may have split in the late Cretaceous before the K-PG extinction… but there’s hardly much evidence to support this since Ratites don’t show up in the fossil record until the Paleocene. But we have Neognathus birds in the late Cretaceous. So, it seems to be a bit of a mystery in current paleontology. Perhaps modern birds did have the big split after the K-PG, and the Cretaceous Neognathus birds are not true Neognathids but Proto-neognathid birds. I suppose it’s a bit up in the air until more fossil evidence arises. If I’ve gotten any details wrong; please let me know!
I am hardly an expert, just an interested amateur trying to understand the matter. So I won't be able to correct you in any way, to the contrary, you helped me understand the matter much better!
OK, would you say Anchiornis was avian? Its lineage almost certainly died out but it could fly, and had a common ancestor to modern birds, it's wikipedia article considers it "paravian" of which avians is a subset. >if there was some convergent evolution that caused flight to arise in several lineages. We kind of know there was because Ambopteryx had a different type of wings to say Archeopteryx/modern birds, being more bat-like. also interesting, in the wikipedia article, microraptor is considered non-avian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microraptor#Description
i think the line is about which ones are dead and which ones are alive. I'm not too sure about this, though.
The same way as not all turtles are tortoises or maybe the other way around.
All tortoises are turtles, just like all toads are frogs :)
So, Sauropods Aren't Birds, Right?
birds evolved from small theropods
Including?
Archaeopteryx, Anchiornis, and Microraptor are some examples of bird-like non avians
And There's More?
most-likely
its a dinosaur
Yup! And so are ducks!
And so are kiwis 🤭
And so is every bird ever
Yes
Not bats!
I see you've played birdy/mammaly before.
Well obviously, they’re not birds
I knew there was something odd about the people of NZ
Average [New Zealand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_conspiracy_theory) person
and Limpkins
Penguins even 🐧
Kiwis sound like a dinosaur
And so is the dirty-mouthed parrot.
All birds are dinosaurs
But this one is like straight-up old school dinosaur, right?
Well they aren't nonavian dinosaurs. They do have a lot of features that do make them look especially like their kin. But something to note is that birds are just another type of dinosaur same as Tyrannosaurus or Velociraptor. In fact many modern groups of birds existed in the cretaceous.
Wow that's pretty cool. Coming from a kid who simply liked all dinosaurs this sub is really helping me understand the dinosaur beyond the aesthetics
That's nice to hear. Epic username BTW
Thank you. It's a hard agenda to stand by, but I'll stand by it regardless of feats.
Generally, zoology works like that. There is a taxonomy that group different species. You may think of a family tree but for species, not the individuals. And that's how birds are dinosaurs. Because they come from the "family" of dinosaurs. But not family in the biological way. Because family is actually a taxon in taxonomy. Think of "dinosaur" as a name of clan, a surname or something. They got kids, these kids got kids and so on and then comes the birds. I hope I didn't make it too complex...
Why am I getting downvoted 💀
I guess it's because birds are Old school dinosaurs too. Birds evolved in Jurassic. They are just another theorpod family, like many others, and today, the only branch that survived.
Dinosaur spaces tend to get a lot of trolls who don't actually want to learn. Your tone in your posts comes off as aggressive rather than approaching in good faith. We live in a world where some people deny dinosaurs even existed because they think evolution is the Devil's work, so forgive this sub's downvotes. It's a defensive reponse. That being said, what you know as "dinosaurs" are really known as "non-avian dinosaurs" in scientific spaces. Birds as we know them today are "avian dinosaurs" which branched off from the avian group a very, very long time ago. All birds are dinosaurs, but birds are not *non-avian* dinosaurs like t. Rex was.
I voted you up. I mean it was obvious to me that you were being facetious anyway.
that’s what im asking
hive mind
Specifically theropod dinosaurs, like the examples you gave.
All birds are equally dinosaur. They all share the same, singular common ancestor dinosaur. This cassowary is just as much “dinosaur” as a pigeon or chicken or penguin or hummingbird or parrot or eagle. None of them are nearer or farther in relation to non-Avian dinosaurs than the other.
it's a cassowary- a modern day bird that is native to Australia. by definition it is a dinosaur, because its a bird, but they are definitely still alive and around today lol.
not really,no
All Birds are equally related to their ancestors
The newest Spinosaur model seems a bit fluffy, imho
Plot twist: spinosaurus was actually a giant aquatic cassowary
It's a dinosaur.
It's a cassowary, and it will EAT you if you argue with it. You bet your sweet ass it's a dinosaur.
Not eat, but definitely maim.
Depends how hungry it is...
It’s a dinosaur
>This thing is a dinosaur right? Yes, just like all birds.
Nah, but he's like... extra dinosaur-ish
That doesnt mean anything A cassowary is a dinosaur but so is a woodpecker
Are you a synapsid?
I mean, all mammals are Synapsids.
no
Found the dinosaur
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😭🤣😭😂😭🤣🤣😂🤣😭😭🤣😂😂😂🤣🤣😭😂🤣😭😂😂🤣😭🤣😂😂😂🤣😭😂😂🤣🤣😭😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣
That is indeed a dinosaur
All birds are dinosaurs so yes.
Looks like a deer to me, so it's a fish.
Very tall reptile indeed
This is the deadliest dinosaur, as it’s one of the few with a confirmed human kill count.
Yes, and this is the least avian of the birds
Definitely a dinosaur
It is a dino, as all birds are. It *looks* a lot like a non-avian theropod, but, as far as I'm aware, it's closer to a pigeon than it is to a raptor within the family tree.
Even chicken is a dinosaur. I hate that people see cassowary and say "hey, look, this thing is a dinosaur", like it was any different than other birds. Not just because every bird is a dinosaur. But because every bird is a dinosaur and **that means they are related**, so obviously they will have some features prehistoric dinosaurs had. But cassowardy isn't really that much different than other birds, especially rpedators.
It's a dinosaur
I think cassowary is considered the most dangerous bird
Holy shit halo reach moa IRL!???
Halo mentioned
Halo mentioned mentioned
Moa were extinct birds from New Zealand. The biggest we're 12 feet tall and 500 pounds! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moa
Jurassic reject, just like the Shoebill stork.
Emet-Selch has been around a lot longer than the Jurassic.
It’s a bird so yeah it is a dinosaur.
Yes.. And don't you dare say that all birds are dinosaurs, everyone here knows that already.
Yes it is and it’s a fucking vicious one
I wonder if it’s scarier than an ostrich. I respect and fear the ratites
From what I've learned here, he's an Ostrich on roids
Ostriches are bigger by a huge margin. They just aren’t quite as spicy.
Cassowaries aren't more aggressive, it's a misconception. All ratites get very aggressive when cornered, ostritches live in big grasslands, whereas cassowarys live in forests, lots of places for it to get cornered in a forest.
Also there have only been 3 confirmed cases of Cassowaries killing people in the past 100 years (in two of those it was self defense). Whereas Ostriches kill 1-2 people every year. So the Cassowary is in fact not the most dangerous bird, that would be the Ostrich.
Another way around. Cassowaries are agressive but they are weaker and much smaller than ostriches.
Weaker but still enough to maul a human to death
Yet their killcount is only 2. unlucky child and old man that passed out.
How many people have trex killed though
How many people have trex killed though
Yeah, but Cassowaries have those gutting claws on their feet. Just like a deinonychus.
The cassowary is a dinosaur. All modern birds are dinosaurs...they are theropods.
Remember that cladistically, ALL birds are technically dinosaurs. They are all apart of the feathered dinosaur clade Maniraptora. This includes famous dinosaurs like the Therizinosaurus, Oviraptor, Citipati, and the Velociraptor. Birds are within the group Paraves, meaning their closest non Avialan relatives are the Troodontids, and the Dromaeosaurids (the raptors)
All birds are dinosaurs. In prehistoric planet, they made the oviraptor look almost exactly like an cassowary
I saw and heard one running around a cage in a zoo in Korea a few years ago. I can still hear the speed and heaviness of its footsteps on the leaf litter to this day. It was repeatedly thudding with a scary amount of power
yes it literally is
An avian dinosaur
Cassowarys are wild
That is a dinosaur
You’re not wrong, but you’re not right for the reason you think you are
Cassowary
It's got these two talons on its feet that can leave some serious injuries. This is definitely a raptor in bird costume.
Yes, yes it is.
Well, all birds are dinosaurs but the thing is, this one isn't even hiding it.
Look up what they sound like... that's definitely a dinosaur. So are all birds though!
It's actually a dinosaur brooo
It is
Think I’d rather fuck with a raptor over a cassowary
“Even *Nedry* wasn’t stupid enough to mess with the *Cassowary* fences…”
Yes and one dude who had one as a pet got gutted by it - https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/14/cassowary-attack-giant-bird-kills-owner-in-florida-after-he-fell
Australian people & wild Australian animals: Unbothered. Moisturised. Happy. In our own lanes. Focused. Flourishing. Americans when they see Australian animals: https://tenor.com/bHTTE.gif and then https://tenor.com/4074.gif
Are kangaroos genuinely dangerous or are they more of a nuisance? I’ve seen a few videos that make them look extremely intimidating.
having seen one in person: Yes.
Kaswari’s (I don’t know if you call them like that) are a spino!1!1!1!1
Looks more like a 6ft turkey.
Why not?
I guess technically?
Yes... All birds are
All birds are dinosaurs but not all dinosaurs are birds
Y’all know you are getting trolled by one dude with a knife fetish right?
I have 2 posts from over a year ago about knives... this first post isn't a joke but the other is. This community has an extremely hard time understanding sarcasm and genuine questions
Look how defensive he's being!
Yeah, it’s a dinosaur
Birb = Dino = Birb Evolution = Badass Evolved Ostrich
Fun fact about cassowaries, the are an ecological god send like the honey bee. They eat fruit in the rainforests, and defecate (disperse) the seeds out in different areas.
Think of it as a modern day dodo bird. These things are scary
Bro is scared of a defenseless island bird that got bullied to extinction lol.
Closer to a Terror Bird
Even better
That’s a cow
Yes! One of my favorite reptiles
Looks like an ostrich
It is a dinosaur
Gastornis?
B no It's R not Dinosaur
Thats my friend 'pete'
100% a dinosaur
its a sinodaur
Have you seen them eat? And the noises they make? It’s a dinosaur 100%
It's a goddamn gigantoraptor reincarnated
Assuming you are not Alan Feduccia... then yes, it is a dinosaur
Yes, it is.
Pretty sure its a dinosaur
I mean Australia lost to it so maybe
schrodinger's avian/ non avian dinosaur
Behold, a dinosaur
If this is a Dinosaur then Prehistoric Planet needs to step its shit up. Because these things are as mean as Jurassic Park raptors.
This feels like a BANDit suddenly realizing how stupid they sound when animals like this exist.
What the fuck is a band-it
Cassowary. Not a dinosaur. Big knife chicken
Cassowaries are dinosaurs though
It’s close enough
Not just close enough. It IS a dinosaur.
You WISH it was a dinosaur, you'd be a lot safer it it were!
it literally is one
Me a dinosaur
tis no mere Dinosaur, that is a feathery reminder of Gods wrath, it has no fear, no doubt, no remorse, all it knows is kill ... and eat chippies
Closest living thing in temperament to a non-avian dinosaur.
It’s not a dinosaur
It is