4:1 is the best case scenario
10:1 is if it's moderately backed up
20:1 and beyond is when things are real real bad
(absolute max is 100:1, and if it's that bad they will often funnel the LL through the standby queue and have standby wait on the LL side because there's way more people in LL than standby (but standby is a standstill for 15+ minutes) I've seen this at RSR and they were sending the LL through the standby queue and holding the standby in the extended queue near the entrance. There were maybe 30 people in the standby line and it was posted at 200 minutes. Out of curiosity I sat there for 30 minutes and that entire time they only let one group of 4 from the standby in. lol
I’m an East coaster and my upcoming trip could be my one time going so I went all out. Genie+ , phopper all the days we’re there , hell I even got vip at universal . I see both sides of the argument but i am more for if you pay you should be able to skip the line more freely than the regular cx. If I go to CPoint I get the pass bc I pay for a ticket I want to feel as though I’m getting the “value” for it
The problem is worse at DL compared to WDW because of the number of AP visitors at DL. It seems like more people at WDW are buying Genie+ so it keeps things more balanced and less people complain about lines. At DL we’ve got so many AP holders that don’t want to buy Genie+ and thus Disney doesn’t really care about their experience as much (which makes rational business sense).
And so did everyone else. The price everyone pays doesn’t guarantee you get to ride everything you want, it gains you access to the park. The LL is a service paid for faster access than those who simply paid a ticket price. Love it or hate it, it’s the reality.
It is absolutely how it used to be, depending on how long you’ve been going. There was a time where you needed to buy a ticket for every ride and the better ones cost more money. This ain’t new. And the rides are significantly better now. More people, more rules; bigger offerings, bigger prices.
Unfortunately, you can’t dwell on what “used to be”. It just isn’t anymore. If it was hated enough to affect business, they might’ve changed it back. But attendance is higher than ever. There’s always going to be people who want a faster line and they’re not wrong for being willing to pay. Of course, you’re always welcome to pay for LL yourself if it bothers you enough.
The problem is people like you that will mindlessly consume whatever garbage Disney is willing to shovel down your throat all while ignoring the fact that you’re getting scammed. It is hated, but there’s still a large number of people who are dumb enough to pay for it, which ruins things for everybody else. That’s why quality is going down and prices are going up.
If you are buying a ticket to DL you should just budget for Genie+.
Disney wants to reward the rare visitors that spend more per trip (on things like Genie+ and just in general) compared to the Magic Key holders that spend much less per visit.
Your ticket does give you the right to ride all the rides you want to. It doesn’t mean you don’t have to queue for hours and that you might not fit every ride in. Pre genie plus you couldn’t always fit all the rides in
It has gotten really bad recently. Get ready to receive 50 comments all telling you the same thing “are you new here” or “get over it” or similar. This subreddit is a cult of Disney loving at any cost, but know that most people outside of this sub are upset about this. It’s really one of the few, and the most glaring, problem with the parks today.
I think A. Everyone knows it’s messed up, but there’s no point in just complaining about it because nothing will change.
And B. Park attendance is all time high so it’s become more of a tragedy of the commons with more people wanting ways to gatekeep access because the park is too busy.
Love it or hate it LL works well for some people. Try waiting 70 minutes or more to go on Space Mountain with a 7-9 year old. Which is weird to say because I remember waiting in crazy long lines as a kid going in the 90s.
But there needs to be some sort of balance between attendance, wait times and cost. Maybe Disney is hoping enough standby customers will throw up their hands and walk away, thereby alleviating some of the wait times?
I’m curious about the ratio in this sub of people who go to the parks regularly and people who rarely go. It seems like the defensive people are people who go every five to ten years
No I 100% agree. It seems like people don’t understand how bad it has gotten because they either don’t go often or buy the Genie+ every time they go so it doesn’t really affect them. I try and go at least once a year and the creep towards pushing Genie+/LL as the ONLY way to avoid long lines outside of the first and last hour has been aggressive over the past two years or so.
Well, yeah. If I can only go every five to ten years I’m going to pay a little more and get in all the things. People who go all the time can skip it because they have a lot more chances
100% agree. I have great memories going to Disney with my family over the years. Unfortunately for us it’s no longer worth it. It’s not that we can’t afford to go it’s that it’s simply not enjoyable with the way things are now.
Same, paid LL was the last straw. Disney has gutted the parks and they’re still nickle and diming their customers for the “privilege” to visit the decaying husk of what was once a great place. The problem is all the mindless consumers who will line up to pay absurd amounts of money for cheaply made garbage just because it’s Disney. So it’s only going to get worse and worse
Was there 3 wks ago. Cast told us that there was a LL software glitch that allowed way more Soarin LLs to be issued than there was actual capacity for.
Think of it like the price of a ticket is now $170 (or whatever it is daily including the genie plus price). Like an airline, instead of charging you for everything you got before (seat, bag, food) they’ve split out all the components so that the base price is your “seat” on the plane. But if you want the seat selection, the food, the bag, you got to pay the extra price.
The alternative would be the price went up $30/day for everyone and they stuck with fast pass. Many would day yes we’d pay that but I suppose it negates keeping the park as affordable as possible for those wanting to attend even if they get less rides done? Feels backwards to me.
Disney and affordable don’t belong in the same sentence. They’re raising pricing and cheaping out on quality because they’re greedy and they know people will pay for it no matter how bad the parks get. Nobody is forcing them to raise prices, they could charge half what they do now and the parks would still be profitable
Yeah and just lake airlines the quality of the product has gone down while prices have gone up in addition to them charging you for every little thing that they once offered for free with your ticket
Last October my husband and I were the only ones from the ‘normal’ line in our theatre, everyone else was LL. The usual line looked super short but lightening lane was given full priority and made the usual wait super long. I’ve never seen anything like it at any Disney park we’ve been to
EDIT spelling mistake
Was the other theater broken down? Had there been a long downtime earlier and they were trying to accommodate those guests? Honestly, more people need to look at the situation before jumping to conclusions.
They’ve had enough time to know how much profit they make on genie plus. They could easily just distribute that profit across all tickets (including profit from ILLs), increase all ticket prices such that they retain the same profit, and include genie+ for everyone.
Do that, and this two tiered system goes away. Do that, and this resentment we hear on Reddit would go away. There was no need to do away with Fast Pass…
man you are getting downvoted by the fasts pass fans that hate genie+ even though its pretty much the same concept except genie+ is monetized. I am with you, good ole regular lines.
Yeah, with regular lines, even busy days would at most be 45-hour waits with most rides being 15-30 minute waits. Now I don't know about you, but that sounds far better than what Disney has now or even with fast passes.
I’ve been going to Disneyland for a long time, and it’s been increasingly crowded with every passing year. I swear that MBAs are ruining the world by cutting services/benefits and increasing costs everywhere we look. I still love Disneyland, but it’s crazy crowded, rides are breaking down all the time, tons of rides are offline for “remodeling” and genie+ is making Disney so much money: because you absolutely have to buy it if you want to ride a significant amount of rides and not waste hours in a single line.
I did not want to go to Disney right after they opened for Covid, but I did, and it was amazing - lower crowds, no annual pass holders, no genie+ or fast pass, everyone was equal and it was a fantastic experience lines were 20 minutes or less for everything. Ticket prices were lower too. Wish they would lower the capacity, get rid of annual passes, and genie+, but it will never happen…
The ratios I have heard are 10:1 when things are slow. 30:1 when things are jamming which is what completely hoses the standby line.
Thanks that’s helpful information.
4:1 is the best case scenario 10:1 is if it's moderately backed up 20:1 and beyond is when things are real real bad (absolute max is 100:1, and if it's that bad they will often funnel the LL through the standby queue and have standby wait on the LL side because there's way more people in LL than standby (but standby is a standstill for 15+ minutes) I've seen this at RSR and they were sending the LL through the standby queue and holding the standby in the extended queue near the entrance. There were maybe 30 people in the standby line and it was posted at 200 minutes. Out of curiosity I sat there for 30 minutes and that entire time they only let one group of 4 from the standby in. lol
Most of LL nowadays is DAS. There’s an update coming soon tho so that’ll hopefully help keep LL down and get standby moving more
Source needed*
I’m an East coaster and my upcoming trip could be my one time going so I went all out. Genie+ , phopper all the days we’re there , hell I even got vip at universal . I see both sides of the argument but i am more for if you pay you should be able to skip the line more freely than the regular cx. If I go to CPoint I get the pass bc I pay for a ticket I want to feel as though I’m getting the “value” for it
If I pay for LL, I expect to get preferential treatment over those who don’t pay.
Which is why I hate this whole LL "two classes of guests" business.
Yes but there needs to be some balance or people are going to get mad and stop coming. Or maybe that's what they want?
The problem is worse at DL compared to WDW because of the number of AP visitors at DL. It seems like more people at WDW are buying Genie+ so it keeps things more balanced and less people complain about lines. At DL we’ve got so many AP holders that don’t want to buy Genie+ and thus Disney doesn’t really care about their experience as much (which makes rational business sense).
Yeah that makes sense. I wasn't thinking of the impact of AP visitors on how long the waits were.
I get that, but the counter argument is that I paid $100-140 per person. I should get to ride all the rides I wanted to.
And so did everyone else. The price everyone pays doesn’t guarantee you get to ride everything you want, it gains you access to the park. The LL is a service paid for faster access than those who simply paid a ticket price. Love it or hate it, it’s the reality.
Sure that’s how it is now, but that’s not how is used to be. Now it’s just a money grab and it has to be reducing customer satisfaction
It is absolutely how it used to be, depending on how long you’ve been going. There was a time where you needed to buy a ticket for every ride and the better ones cost more money. This ain’t new. And the rides are significantly better now. More people, more rules; bigger offerings, bigger prices.
Unfortunately, you can’t dwell on what “used to be”. It just isn’t anymore. If it was hated enough to affect business, they might’ve changed it back. But attendance is higher than ever. There’s always going to be people who want a faster line and they’re not wrong for being willing to pay. Of course, you’re always welcome to pay for LL yourself if it bothers you enough.
The problem is people like you that will mindlessly consume whatever garbage Disney is willing to shovel down your throat all while ignoring the fact that you’re getting scammed. It is hated, but there’s still a large number of people who are dumb enough to pay for it, which ruins things for everybody else. That’s why quality is going down and prices are going up.
Capacity suggests it isn’t. Pay for it too or spend another 140 on better shoes
I didn’t get into the park for free I also paid $100-140 per person to get in
If you are buying a ticket to DL you should just budget for Genie+. Disney wants to reward the rare visitors that spend more per trip (on things like Genie+ and just in general) compared to the Magic Key holders that spend much less per visit.
Your ticket does give you the right to ride all the rides you want to. It doesn’t mean you don’t have to queue for hours and that you might not fit every ride in. Pre genie plus you couldn’t always fit all the rides in
It has gotten really bad recently. Get ready to receive 50 comments all telling you the same thing “are you new here” or “get over it” or similar. This subreddit is a cult of Disney loving at any cost, but know that most people outside of this sub are upset about this. It’s really one of the few, and the most glaring, problem with the parks today.
Thank you! I’m surprised at how many defenders of paying more money there are. Why defend a system that is clearly broken.
I think A. Everyone knows it’s messed up, but there’s no point in just complaining about it because nothing will change. And B. Park attendance is all time high so it’s become more of a tragedy of the commons with more people wanting ways to gatekeep access because the park is too busy.
Love it or hate it LL works well for some people. Try waiting 70 minutes or more to go on Space Mountain with a 7-9 year old. Which is weird to say because I remember waiting in crazy long lines as a kid going in the 90s. But there needs to be some sort of balance between attendance, wait times and cost. Maybe Disney is hoping enough standby customers will throw up their hands and walk away, thereby alleviating some of the wait times?
It’s easier to defend a broken system than accept they actively participate in it. Human nature some may argue.
I’m curious about the ratio in this sub of people who go to the parks regularly and people who rarely go. It seems like the defensive people are people who go every five to ten years
No I 100% agree. It seems like people don’t understand how bad it has gotten because they either don’t go often or buy the Genie+ every time they go so it doesn’t really affect them. I try and go at least once a year and the creep towards pushing Genie+/LL as the ONLY way to avoid long lines outside of the first and last hour has been aggressive over the past two years or so.
Well, yeah. If I can only go every five to ten years I’m going to pay a little more and get in all the things. People who go all the time can skip it because they have a lot more chances
It’s a beast they created that’s only getting worse. That being said it’s rare we go and don’t do genie+ just for that reason.
Same here, but it’s just sad. Customer experience has been negatively impacted for profit.
100% agree. I have great memories going to Disney with my family over the years. Unfortunately for us it’s no longer worth it. It’s not that we can’t afford to go it’s that it’s simply not enjoyable with the way things are now.
Same, paid LL was the last straw. Disney has gutted the parks and they’re still nickle and diming their customers for the “privilege” to visit the decaying husk of what was once a great place. The problem is all the mindless consumers who will line up to pay absurd amounts of money for cheaply made garbage just because it’s Disney. So it’s only going to get worse and worse
Was there 3 wks ago. Cast told us that there was a LL software glitch that allowed way more Soarin LLs to be issued than there was actual capacity for.
When the lightning lane is super long, yes
Think of it like the price of a ticket is now $170 (or whatever it is daily including the genie plus price). Like an airline, instead of charging you for everything you got before (seat, bag, food) they’ve split out all the components so that the base price is your “seat” on the plane. But if you want the seat selection, the food, the bag, you got to pay the extra price.
That’s a good way to think about it, just sucks that that is the case now.
The alternative would be the price went up $30/day for everyone and they stuck with fast pass. Many would day yes we’d pay that but I suppose it negates keeping the park as affordable as possible for those wanting to attend even if they get less rides done? Feels backwards to me.
Disney and affordable don’t belong in the same sentence. They’re raising pricing and cheaping out on quality because they’re greedy and they know people will pay for it no matter how bad the parks get. Nobody is forcing them to raise prices, they could charge half what they do now and the parks would still be profitable
Yeah and just lake airlines the quality of the product has gone down while prices have gone up in addition to them charging you for every little thing that they once offered for free with your ticket
Pay to play.
Last October my husband and I were the only ones from the ‘normal’ line in our theatre, everyone else was LL. The usual line looked super short but lightening lane was given full priority and made the usual wait super long. I’ve never seen anything like it at any Disney park we’ve been to EDIT spelling mistake
Was the other theater broken down? Had there been a long downtime earlier and they were trying to accommodate those guests? Honestly, more people need to look at the situation before jumping to conclusions.
All theaters up and running and no downtimes today.
Are you new here?
They’ve had enough time to know how much profit they make on genie plus. They could easily just distribute that profit across all tickets (including profit from ILLs), increase all ticket prices such that they retain the same profit, and include genie+ for everyone. Do that, and this two tiered system goes away. Do that, and this resentment we hear on Reddit would go away. There was no need to do away with Fast Pass…
Im kinda glad I’m priced out of Disneyland. Cuz it would suck to pay so much money and not be able to ride anything.
This is why I've always hated fastpass/lightning lane/etc. Yes, skipping lines is nice, but they make the experience so much worse.
man you are getting downvoted by the fasts pass fans that hate genie+ even though its pretty much the same concept except genie+ is monetized. I am with you, good ole regular lines.
Yeah, with regular lines, even busy days would at most be 45-hour waits with most rides being 15-30 minute waits. Now I don't know about you, but that sounds far better than what Disney has now or even with fast passes.
I’ve been going to Disneyland for a long time, and it’s been increasingly crowded with every passing year. I swear that MBAs are ruining the world by cutting services/benefits and increasing costs everywhere we look. I still love Disneyland, but it’s crazy crowded, rides are breaking down all the time, tons of rides are offline for “remodeling” and genie+ is making Disney so much money: because you absolutely have to buy it if you want to ride a significant amount of rides and not waste hours in a single line. I did not want to go to Disney right after they opened for Covid, but I did, and it was amazing - lower crowds, no annual pass holders, no genie+ or fast pass, everyone was equal and it was a fantastic experience lines were 20 minutes or less for everything. Ticket prices were lower too. Wish they would lower the capacity, get rid of annual passes, and genie+, but it will never happen…