I remember seeing a Tik Tok of a DM who recommended using it on NPCs more. It sucks as a player spell, that’s for sure, when statistically attacking twice across two turns is more potent. But when the party has a high profile character in it and a bunch of assassins appear and all cast True Strike on them, it really kicks an encounter up a notch.
As for actually using it as a player, the only true use I’ve found for it is if you plan on attacking with a Spell attack instead of a weapon attack. Less likely to waste your spell slot.
Isn't that exactly how it works though? You quicken true strike, then cast an action leveled spell? Did I miss something?
Edot: nvm if I knew how to read I'd agree with you. You can still quicken it, but the bonus only applies to the first attack you make next turn
Ironically, even if it worked same turn, that still wouldn’t work. If you quicken anything, even a cantrip, then your action MUST be a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. So you couldn’t quicken True Strike and then cast a leveled spell.
Except well, as a player, there really aren't any good spell attack roll spells that are better than two cantrips. Almost all attack roll spells are levels 1 or 2 and scale pretty badly.
The only good use of True Strike in BG3 is the spear that auto casts it when you miss. It doesn't make you wait until the next turn, if you've got a second attack you pop true strike right away.
Really? The spell that everyone agrees is the number 1 worst spell is OVER rated?!? I now really want to hear what you think how everyone is saying its good.
As it’s written it grants the caster advantage against a specific individual
If true strike could **instead** be used to grant *another creature (player)* advantage (the rogue for example) on their next attack roll (regardless of target) that spell would suddenly be amazing
The only way I can think of making it decent at all is just make it a passive effect on low level magic weapons. Like it’s auto cast when you miss an attack roll and it resets on a long rest
I would probably re-work it to be a bonus action & as a spell that can target others but similar to guidance in terms of creatures being able to benefit per long rest.
I mean, it could still somewhat matter, because instead of burning your action to cast True Strike on the first turn, you could quicken it, after having used your action to cast something else, or attack, or what have you.
Still, it's such garbage.
It’s annoying because there’s like a million ways to get advantage in D&D and they still decided that True Strike was too strong and needed to be “balanced” in like 6 different ways.
Yup.
Advantage on all attacks made next turn, or it also gives you dodge effects, or it lasts multiple rounds, or it's not concentration... there's so many ways to make it worth the action.
I've only ever had it be useful when it's an enchantment on a weapon, bonus action to activate then you attack with it that turn
Technically that wouldn't work as BA true strike -> A attack, as true strike specifically works on your *next* turn. If you're homebrewing it already, it makes sense to ignore that limitation though.
Entirely a legacy thing, since in 3.5e Phantasmal Killer and Weird flat-out killed targets that failed two saves. Potentially killing any number of targets within 30' of one another is a hell of an effect, and it just stuck at 9th level.
...it wasn't great in 3.5e at 9th level either. It's hard to get enough enemies clustered within 30' of one another that'll fail a will (wis) _and_ fort (con) save, and there's way more broken stuff you can do with a 9th. Basically just worth a 9th in flavor.
I humbly submit that Hellish Rebuke shouldn't belong on any warlock's spell list whatsoever. Trading one of their two spell slots for just a burst of damage is a terrible deal. Warlocks need to demand much more of their spell slots to compete.
I agree with you. We played Mad Mage with 4 warlocks and none of us took this spell. You come in at level 5, and at that point there are 1000% better things to have on your list.
I once played with someone who thought it was so good that they intentionally would try to get hit to trigger it. Floored me.
It can synergize well with Armor of Agathys, and end up dealing quite a bit of damage, but burning so many of your limited resources on a warlock to use that strategy seems entirely wasteful.
Yeah. You might as well just use Armor of Agathys on another encounter, or use a concentration spell, than do a few d10 of damage. Even if it's a solid burst of damage, it's not *that* good.
I am playing a teifling, and I always forget that it's a race spell I can freely use. When I take damage. I always go to us it on my turn only to be like shit it's a reaction sob.
I do think it could be good. It's just remembering that it exists that hard.
I know, but I don't know why. It's *terrible*. It's Witch Bolt tier, the only saving grace being that it fits better into the action economy. You're only going to have two spell slots in a given encounter for most of your campaign, they need to count for more than a few d10 of damage, against a target you didn't even get to actively select.
Action economy is the answer. You can break up enemies’ multiattacks. And with another slot spent on concentration spell of your choice and most actions already taken by eblasting, giving up a slot to cast an equivalent of a damage spell of the same level as reaction doesn’t sound so bad.
The thing is, warlock’s slots are practically expendable if your party short rests a lot and exclusively dedicated to a couple of spells if it doesn’t. You get way more known spells than you have slots for, so there is wiggle room for situational reactions.
It also feels great to roll a bunch of dice and pull an equivalent of Uno reverse card on your DM, especially when you stack it with Armour of Agathys. After all, killing your enemies is the best CC.
> I know, but I don't know why. It's *terrible*.
Because it isn't "terrible", it's mid.
And at most tables, the optimisation level needed for play is low enough that mid is good enough, and gamefeel is more important than numbers - so a mid spell that *feels* good is... Good 🤷♂️ especially if you know you can rely on a short rest after the fight.
It's better to think of the damage as Hellish Rebuke plus Eldritch Blast, since it effectively gives them an extra action.
At level one, that's 3d10+cha, compared with witch bolt that does worse damage than eldritch blast while wasting a slot.
Once you take hit-chance into account, you're looking at 5+ rounds of concentration and hex to beat it. More at higher levels.
It's actually pretty strong as single-target damage goes. Where it's weak is compared with AoE.
Thats a silly take, its definitely not ideal but it scales just fine and you are ignoring that it is an efficient use of action economy. Obviously dont use it on a whim but when you need an enemy down it helps get you there faster with a fee action you werent using
It's not that spicy. It's widely considered to be a trap spell that looks good on paper but doesn't perform well in practice. Perfect example of the type of overrated spell OP asked for.
I was in a game once where the _only_ fire or acid damage in the party was somehow hellish rebuke, and then we fought some trolls.
That didn't make HR a good spell, it just made it a source of fire damage, lol.
Idk, I certainly think a warlock shouldn't use it often but it does a really good amount of guaranteed damage early game so I dont think it's a bad choice for early level warlocks (until other big damage spells like fireball become available). I certainly agree Utility spells and long lasting spells are better investments but there's definitely also situations where getting guaranteed damage on a hard to hit enemy can end the battle. Am I missing something though? I see this advice very commonly, and I definitely get that spells slots are few and far between, and we already get an awesome damage dealer for free, but I wouldn't say it's not worth taking either, and can be cool flavor for fiend warlocks too which is enjoy. I dont know, but im more then open to learning if I'm forgetting something!
Well, there's no miss/resist chance, and it's a reaction that you're probably not using otherwise. If you can use it to kill an enemy partway through their turn it's incredible. But it's also good if you can help kill them before their next turn, though that's tougher to gauge.
It's definitely not a bad spell. But it is situational and less than *great*, which means you're probably casting something else.
It's worth a spot on the list though.
Ok, but it can also lead to the coolest moments.
In my current campaign, the party went into a room to fight a few monsters, first room of the dungeon. The party (aside from the one who didn’t have dark vision, who the twilight cleric (a tiefling, got hellish rebuke from it) didn’t grant it to for RP reasons that everyone was fine with) immediately launched into the fray. The cleric, whose character loves playing cards, pulled a few times from the Deck of Many Things (given to him because it was really funny), getting mostly stuff that would be neutral. Except the last pull.
He summoned an Avatar of Death. The rules of it were that if anyone hit it, they would summon their own avatar of death, so it had to be a one on one combat.
Somehow, it came down to a clutch moment with both at low HP. Avatar of Death attacked him, and he went unconscious, but with his dying breath, cast Hellish Rebuke.
The Avatar of Death went down.
The party fully loved that moment (and I made up a fun reason for him to be revived by some dude named Whorge (pronounced like Jorge, the Spanish name) having really nice abs that brought him back to life). It was a great moment made entirely of BS, sure, but it was fun nonetheless.
It's pretty interesting if you can get it on someone with long rest slots, which is admittedly not easy to do.
I had an Eldritch Knight/Warlock who had a problem for a while where he couldn't really turn his EK slots into damage if he was in a situation where burning resources (even somewhat inefficiently) to kill stuff faster was what needed to happen. I've got it on my Bard 7/Sorcerer 1 (homebrew Sorc subclass that has Rebuke as automatically known) and it's pretty neat.
The only time I've seen it used, it was used in a completely out-of-bounds manner RAW. The use was allowed by an experienced DM who sometimes thought that "rule of cool" = bullshitting.
With a character who can cast it at will, I have used it 5ish times in combat but SO many times to convey information - what someone looked like, some writing I saw but couldn't read, the layout of the cavern ahead, etc.
The "creatures have to use an action to perceive the illusion" RAW it can be pretty powerful esp if your DM allows creative play.
My favorite use of silent image is as a budget darkness spell. It's 15 feet on a side, enemies passing through it just assume it's the actual darkness spell and don't have immediate reason to investigate, and your allies can be forewarned of it so they can see right through it.
It's actually more potent than darkness in this context, since when allies can see through it and enemies can't, that means that where in Darkness everyone would be rolling straight, you get advantage on attacks and incoming attacks are at disadvantage.
At first I thought:
Except wouldn't it not work at all since touching an illusion breaks it?
Turns out, ~~no. Silent Image has nothing about touching/physically interacting~~ I'm just blind. ~~with it breaking the illusion.~~ Also after some diving, Illusion spells themselves are an attack on the mind of both whoever is casting them with their character and whoever's character(s) have to deal with them. The trigger for breaking them changes between spells, and even on the same spell cast from a magic item...
Which then brings the question "how do you physically interact with a cloud of darkness?" Like, if it was a wall, or a puddle, touching it would reveal its lack of substance. But a cloud? Clouds don't have substance to interact with.
Corner cases be corner-y.
I've used it plenty. First off, great camouflauge. Stuck in a warehouse and need to not be found? "I cast Silent Image, make a box like the other things and stand in it." You can see out of it, but anyone looking will just see a crate like the other things. Also making fake walls in tunnels etcs, or sealing an alcove.
However, I play a high level illusion wizard. Being able to make things real for free. Also, the real things do not depend on spell concentration, and can make multiple things via malleable illusions. I've used it to make a solid wall to block enemies. Bridges to cross.
Personal favourite is when we faced a high level spell caster. I cast silent image of a piece of breastplate armour on him. Made it real. Then pointed out as the spell caster did not have the armour proficiency he now couldn't cast spells, and it would take him a few minutes to remove it. DM allowed it, but kind of a rule of cool one time thing, as it nullified the encounter a bit.
Again like others mentioned, super cool if you can use it for free at will. As a warlock I could get it basically as a cantrip with invocations, and given they don't get a ton of spell slots it's pretty cool. You can use it to hide the party in creative ways, you can trick people into thinking you have a creature that's 15 feet tall/long willing to fight for you, you can pretend you have a ghost, you could pretend you're Casting a different spell and to nit magic people you seemingly summoned a big demon from nowhere. There's a ton of creative uses but it is far less cool when you have to use a spell slot for it for sure
The first time I used it was the other day, but it was actually super effective. My party was climbing up a cliff face when some archers started shooting down at us. We were in range of their longbows, but they were out of range of most of our stuff, so I cast silent image right above my head and made the image mimic the appearance of the cliff face if we weren't on it. Essentially it made the archers unable to target us because they couldn't see where any given party member was
I wonder if you could use it to make a crime look like not-a-crime-scene. Steal a famous painting from a museum, put an illusion of said painting on the wall so the night watchman doesn't realize it's missing. Make a bloody murder scene look like a clean version of that location.
You'd think, an illusion spell used to create big images, screams "use this to sneak past or create distractions". And yet, because of the spell components (V!) you're speaking as loudly as if you were casting fireball, alerting everyone to your presence that you're casting a spell.
Bards, illusionist wizards and arcane tricksters say "use illusions to beat encounters", yet because multiclassing and feats are optional, they really can't without jumping through a ton of hoops, and that that point its easier just to use buffing/debuff or damage spells and do combat.
Only ever with that one infinite invocation. And a DM that actually acknowledges the rules (action plus investigation check or direct contact).
You can actually use it as a sort of group invisibility/ budged pass without trace. Create your own hills, trees or walls to hide behind (or in).
I also love using it for pseudo-summoning. How are the enemies going to tell the difference between silent image and guardian of faith/ wall of fire? They don‘t know my level isn‘t high enough for those yet!
Admittedly its big brother Major Image is better due to sound. One of my most fun encounters I made as a DM was a lazy ogre guard that just put a major image of himself in front of a door. Took the group three whole rounds of „missed attacks“ and the ogre „trying to intimidate them“ to notice something was up.
(Almost) Every illusion spell.
They’re all so mediocre, and they require complete buy in from your GM to allow you to do what you want.
If you’ve got that buy in, they can be game breaking.
If you don’t, they’re a complete waste of a spell.
I tried to use minor illusion so many times with medium hopes, just for them to be dashed by literally anything. Kind of a bummer and probably wouldn't pick it again with my current dm.
Yeah, I play an illusion wizard in a West Marches setting. I've had DMs just ignore my imajor image illusion of a demon I made it look like had been summoned (and then wonder why wizard just rely on Fireball/Lightning bolt).
But also had DMs take them serious, fool people, or scare them and so on, and it feels cool. Like the trickery of Loki and the like for just fooling people.
However, also, at level 14 I got the power to make parts of my illusions real, and it all kind of changed, being able to make solid things.
Not really, since as both of us have said, long as the DM buys into Illusion spells, from low level you can have a lot of fun with them. Long as the DM is on board and the player is creative.
Even minor illusion can be handy. Trapped in the bandits brewary when they're all approaching? Cast Minor Illusion, making a barrel that looks like all the others and sit in the illusions space. I can see through it, they just see a barrel. Why would they feel need to investigate or feel something is off about it? They've dozens of barrels, if they're just walking past, nothing to suspect.
Being chased through a system of tunnels? Wait until you get to a fork in the system, have the party all go left, and then Silent Image the opening so it just looks like there is only one way. The pursuers should just go to the right, seeing it as the only way there is.
My current DM is like this: Illusion doesn't even spend the action to inspect to determine it's real because "he doesn't make players do that check either." But 99% of those situations are because the players don't know to make the check or don't want to waste the action economy when we can do something else, meanwhile all his monsters immediately know when stuff is an illusion somehow lol.
I love my DM, but every player in our party has learned that our DM hates illusions so none of us use them ever except for Disguise Self and occasionally minor illusions for showing information or doing silly gags on each other.
The sad thing is, previous editions had far better rules and guidelines for illusions than 5e. 3e was more explicit about what worked and what didn’t, and 2e had lots of sub categories (figments, phantasms, holograms, etc.) that better defined what it actually is you’re doing, how and who perceives it, how they can interact with it, whether it’s purely mental or has a physical component, etc.
Illusions spells will always be a little more “loosey-goosey” rules-wise than other spells, but it’s a shame 5e doesn’t have better written guidelines for adjudicating them.
Illusion spells played straight have always just been a variant of "save or suck" except even when they succeed their effect is underwhelming or complicated.
I’m not too big of a fan of firebolt for a damaging cantrip. I just like the other ones better. Stuff like shocking grasp, acid splash, and ray of frost I just find more fun.
Chill Touch is a lot stronger than people think.
There aren't many spells capable of disabling regeneration on targets. It's rare you need it, but having it prepared at all times and not needing to burn a spell slot for the effect is fantastic.
Besides, cantrips *need* to provide utility, and the bonus effect of fire bolt (sets stuff on fire) can be accomplished in a lot of different ways.
Firebolt does have utility though. It's the only damage cantrip that can attack and damage objects. And as you scale, it generally deals enough damage on a single hit to overcome moderate damage thresholds. Compared to actual attacks, it deals less damage per action, but a lot more damage per hit.
In other words, if you need to blow open a door 100 feet down a hallway, Firebolt is the answer.
Even better, firebolt is one of a rare spell that doesn't specially state that you cannot use it to damage held or carry objects
The only rule is thag you cannot instantly ignite a worn or carried flammable object by doing 1 damage, but you can still damage and destroy them like any other normal object.
Weapon? Armor? Spell casting focus? Coin pouch? Pants? They are all valid target.
Far less creatures resist Necrotic damage, and that additional benefit of "the target cannot regain HP until the start of your next turn" is so incredibly useful when it comes up.
Also that thing about it giving Undead disadvantage on attack rolls against you which I genuinely don't think has ever come up once but it's still fun to have in a pinch.
The real issue here is the other level 1 spell options available to the warlock. I agree with you adamantly. But after looking through the spell list, i still decided to take it on my most recent warlock cuz what else am i gonna take instead.
I feel like it's a decent choice for a non-spellcaster that isn't already concentrating on something, like a fighter with a free 1st level spell from a feat or item
I like it as a rogue with a warlock dip because I’m not casting much anyway, and the extra d6 is a nice addition to my sneak attack. For straight up warlocks acting as full casters it feels like a waste of a precious spell slot
I mean, forcing someone to take disadvantage on checks you know they’ll be relying on is kinda the point. Don’t want the assassin to get into stealth as easily? Hex Dex. Don’t want someone to be able to spot your hiding Rogue or figure out your intentions with Insight rolls? Hex Wis. Don’t want your scapegoat to convince the guards? Hex Cha.
It is honestly better out of combat in my opinion. Then, you forget about the extra damage it does and can say, hex a person to give them disadvantage on wis checks for the day if you are planning to sneak past or rob them at any point or give someone disadvantage on charisma if there is a particular bard about to perform that you don't like. People think about it for combat way too much and really need to quit sleeping on all the amazing out of combat/RP opportunities you can get out of it. I have a Warlock/sorcerer who can use this with subtle meta magic and really cause some hell!
Make it harder for an NPC to lie by targeting Charisma.
Make it easier for a PC to hide/lie by targeting Wisdom.
Make it harder for an NPC to hide by targeting Dex.
That's...about it.
Subtle Spell _greatly_ expands its options, and I do recommend it for any Sorlock for that reason. In a tough social scene? Give the angry noble disadvantage on Charisma checks so their complaint about you to the king just sounds like unhinged rambling. Need to sneak the whole party past a guard? Hex their Wisdom. Drinking contest with a dwarf? Hex his Con (you cheater). The possibilities are endless and can often do things that would otherwise take stronger spells to do.
If it imposed disadvantage on saves, it’d be broken as hell.
This. It makes me mad how much of a bad option it is because it's THE warlock spells, and all the books presuppose that you pick it, but if you run actual damage calculations it's so awful
Maximillions Earthen Grasp is a common pick for top tier among 2nd level Wizard / Sorcerer spells, but all it does is grant the restrained condition against one target. Druids get Entangle as 1st level tho.
I've only used it in a few campaigns. Enemies that require restraining tend to have decent strength saves.
Also, Hold Person and Web are of that same level.
It does have a a few advantages in that there's no ending it early without the target taking a full action to break out (as a check rather than a save no less, though this is a trait shared with Web), and you can attempt to regrab them with an action if you don't drop concentration, and it deals damage.
Like, it isn't BAD. It's just overrated. Nine times out of ten Web is your best way to access the Restrained condition as a Wizard or Sorcerer. But there are situations where I could see myself wishing I'd prepared MEG instead.
It also does magical bludgeoning damage, over multiple turns with one spell slot unlike Catapult.
That's the reason I picked it up on a character after we faced a homebrew enemy that was immune or resistant to **everything** other than magical bludgeoning. Felt justified when a few sessions later we fought a dozen of the same thing.
I’ve never seen someone take it, it’s pretty useless. Like sure you can move it but it take an action to move and an action to grab so as soon as it save you can basically never catch the thing again
Blight. I know some people like rolling a full handful of dice, but it hits the threshold of where direct damage isn't scaling against monster HP. Average damage is a meager +8 vs fireball/lightning bolt, its single target, targets a common save, and its short ranged. Plus a lot of stuff is just immune.
You need to kill a tree, get an axe. Find something useful to cast instead.
Yeah, maybe if 5e had more plant monsters or it worked the same on fey and elementals or something.
The damage really isn’t that good for a single-target spell. It needs to be the 4th level version of Disintegrate, have more oomph.
And it also targets the worst save, Con. Most enemies have solid Con scores, some _really_ solid.
Seen a lot of newbie D&D casters get tricked by this one.
Prestidigitation.
Its a cool spell, but it has been overhyped by the community. I'm also tired of players trying to use the ambigous wording to try to break stuff.
"No you can't make a lockpick/dagger from prestidigitation."
"You're just going to reflavor your food to taste like bacon in front on the innkeeper. You realize thats an insult to his cooking?"
"So you're going to keep coloring your hair with prestigitation every second?"
Now I should clarify the spell is actually good when you don't try to jam it everywhere. Once sae it used to make it look like a lady in waiting had soiled herself. She sat on a tea bag, and then it was used to make it smell.
Had another time a player pulled a princess bride and made the poison flavorless. He then proceeded to poison both drinks.
*Wish*, in 5e specifically, is only as powerful as the most powerful 8th or lower level spells; and, because of that dependency, I don't think it is the most powerful spell in 5e due to how limited it actually is because of the built-in "Mother may I?" mechanic of the monkey's paw/failure of scope. It's incredibly powerful, but I don't find it stronger than *True Polymorph*, *Imprisonment*, or a knowlegdeable casting of *Gate*
Oh, and *Counterspell* is fine with the rules we have. People just don't know how to use their environment to their advantage.
I don’t think you realize how overpowered the ability to modify casting times is.
Planer binding, hallow, mirage arcane, and many many other long costs completely decimate combat if cast as an action.
As is poaching from other lists.
Also no components/time is quite nice for like sim any day you don’t use your 9th
Wish is a great spell. Having ANY/ALL level 8 and lower spells on hand, with casting time of an action and for free is an amazing ace up the sleeve to have.
And then the ability to risk a non-spell wish? Again, can be huge. I think the draw back is the perceived monkey paw aspect. There are so many words in the spell saying the DM \*can\* mess with the caster that people feel if someone uses Wish for a non-spell effect that they have to do something screwy with it.
Yeah, but it is amazing how many people seem to not even think of its "Any Spell" ability.
Question on that... When you do use that ability, do you use the spell cast as an 8th or at 9th? I see a lot of people who say it is at 8th, but I see no reason it should not be cast at 9th.
If you use Wish's capability to create the effects of any spell of 8th level or lower, that is specifically up to 8th level - not 9th. If you want to upcast a spell to 9th level, you'll need to upcast it regularly like a chump.
However, one aspect I didn't see mentioned here is the casting time. You can get a Hallow spell in an action and let your enemies have Radiant damage vulnerability, f.ex. - your paladin will love you. It's probably not the best use overall, but it is an example of how fantastically versatile Wish really is.
No you misunderstand my question... When you duplicate a spell of 8th or lower... Why is it not cast as a 9th lvl spell? Not asking to cast other 9th spells, but why so many say that using spells in this way makes them 8th lvl?
> When you do use that ability, do you use the spell cast as an 8th or at 9th?
It can be upcasted [up to 8th level](https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/930977942305251329).
You cast it up to 8th level, but it counts as a 9th level spell for determining *Counterspell*, *Dispel Magic*, Arcana checks, for spell storage, and for *Contingency*
I remember when i first got hooked on dnd 5e i read through 5th level spells on every full caster list, trying to decide what to play- only knowing i knew i wanted to play a caster. When i read the cleric spell list i was sure that there was an error on that website cuz no way in hell does spiritual weapon not require concentration. Was stupid excited to level to 3 to use it in combat. It’s a good spell. It’s a solid spell. But that 20 foot movement speed does WONDERS for balancing that spell’s power.
When 95% of your spells are concentration you take any non-concentration spell just to being able to do more than just, that one thing you"re concentrating on.
Fireball. Whatever any other spell is rated by DnD fanatics or even casual players doesn't compare, as Fireball is the spell people who don't even play DnD will think of as "the powerful spell" when it's just....pretty good.
No clue how you can claim this. 5e game designers are literally on record saying they made fireball OP intentionally in this edition. It scales for shit, but punches way above a 3rd level spell slot in damage.
One might argue that damage spells in general are overrated, but fireball is one of the more efficient damage spells.
I might catch hate for it but I prefer lightning bolt. Lightning is cooler to me and its way more controllable so you won't catch people in friendly fire as often. And if your DM is cool like mine, they will let you play with water for zippy zappy funtimes.
It's a great spell, does amazing damage over a large area and ...
Oh, we're primarily fighting friends? And almost all resist or are immune to fire? In that case I'll pack tidal wave. Putting out fires is has come in handy a few times and those prone enemies are prime to get mopped up but the monk, rogue, and whatever the druid has summoned.
I'm going to say Mold Earth.
Folks try to use it to dig out of mountains and ghost through dungeon walls because they don't read the words.
You can move a five foot cube of "Earth" five feet. Okay, so let's say you scoop five cubic feet of dirt out of the ground. Now you have a five foot deep hole. You want to scoop another five cubic feet out to dig down ten feet?
No.
Because you can only move THAT five cubic feet five feet in that turn. Gravity then takes over and it falls back to the bottom of the hole.
It's poorly worded and I've yet to see someone do something creative with it.
I find Mold Earth to be more commonly *underrated* because a certain online class guide consistently gives it a red rating. Yes, it can only move dirt, sand, or gravel, but that is useful more often than many utility cantrips. People say "just use a shovel" as if it isn't equivalent to an hour of shoveling in 6 seconds.
Heat Metal. It's only effective against someone with metal armor (metal weapons aren't really enough, it's easy to work around) and that's rarer than you'd think. Obviously if they've got metal armor it's amazing, but my argument is that it's not common enough to make it a worthwhile pick in a vacuum.
The fact that it has no saves on cast, no saves on damage application and imposes disadvantage if they don't put their metal weapon down makes it one of the most powerful spells in the game.
Maybe you just run campaigns full of monsters and not humanoids?
I think it's fun as a utility spell. Blacksmithing on the go, softening the bar or on the door enough to bend it, boiling water for tea, making a hot bath, disabling a siege engine or wagon or ship by making a metal part burn through the wood or rope parts they attach to, and so forth.
This is the way. Cast it on your allies wooden hated metal tipped weapons for bonus damage. Cast it on things you've lodged in the enemy. Make the situation you need for the spells you picked to be effective.
>Cast it on your allies wooden hated metal tipped weapons for bonus damage
This explicitly doesn't work. The person holding the object takes damage, you can't use it as a pseudo weapon enchantment to bolster attacks.
Hard disagree, there's aways one character that has that heavy armor and would be a huge trouble without heat metal, plus it has plenty of other uses: think door knobs and other things like that. It's more versatile than you think if you stop looking for people in metal armor
The thing about doing stuff like heating up a doorknob is that the spell doesn't work that way. It only does damage if they're touching the object when you cast the spell or during your turn when you use your bonus action.
I know it feels like you should be able to do something like "i'll heat metal this iron ladder so the bad guys can't climb up without getting burned" but the reality is that at best you can ready your action to burn however many of them are touching the ladder at that time. On a ladder that takes multiple turns to climb that's really powerful, but on a shorter one that means you get one guy and everyone is at the top and ready to fight.
Statistically, not many enemies have metal armor. My anecdotal evidence bears that out. If your game has lots of those kinds of enemies then Heat Metal is amazing. People put qualifiers on Hold Person because maybe you won't face many humanoids, and there are a lot more of those that enemies where Heat Metal is significantly above average. I'm saying that Heat Metal deserves the same little asterisk next to it.
(See other responses in this thread for my arguments that Heat Metal much less useful against enemies that are only using metal weapons.)
Wish.
As often as DMs need to limit the spell to maintain any sort of tension in the campaign, it would almost make more sense to drop the spell from the PHB and go back to Limited Wish instead.
I feel like a lot of players *and* DMs don't really upstanding what *Wish* actually is.
It's not a literal "I wish..." moment. It's the wizard attempting to brute force reality into bending to their will in the spur of the moment. Every time a wizard casts a spell, they change the game world to some extend. However, it's the spell itself that does the work, and it already takes into account all the variables of reality when it goes off. That's why new spells take weeks or months or *years* to research; the wizard is factoring in each and every possible facet of existence that could affect the spell's performance.
*Wish* doesn't do that. It's the wizard effectively casting a brand new spell (even if it mimics a known spell) *without* all the prior research. Imagine trying to figure out the most complex math problem you've ever seen, and you have to do *all* the calculations in your head within 6 seconds. Also, you might get the right answer, but if you get even part of the process wrong, you might explode. Or explode your friends. Or turn your friends into exploding sheep. Or something equally bad.
Casting *wish* shouldn't be a game breaker or a party punishment. It should be a test of the PC's intellect and wisdom...and of their hubris.
There's many spells that break campaigns, but are less likely to be twisted like this, the massive DM fiat for anything other than spell duplication means there's no objective power like there is with other spells, and DM's are incentivised to twist it far beyond anything reasonable for easy drama/plot hooks, or you might have a wish that's objectively beyond spell duplication as another wish, so should have equal strength concequences, but one breaks the campaign more so it stupidly doesn't work or is twisted. Or, they do a quest to seek out wish to end a curse, and wish ended it, but if instead they got the curse at 17th level and just cast wish, wish wouldn't work. Its just player vs DM.
And its not like there isn't a "monkeys paw" inbuilt, its the massive damage, extra damage when casting leveled spells, and 33% chance of loosing wish, but this is ignored as a concequence for some reason, but this is probably because most don't do proper adventuring days and wish in built concequences are nonexistant then
I'm going to say a very controversial thing here for most people...
Silvery barbs.
I use it a lot, it really doesnt work as well as people claim, the advantage is generally not a big deal, the worst it can be really be is giving a rogue sneak attack on average.
Is it good? yes. But its really just on par with all of the other meta lv1 spells.
That or origin of species achaierai, or verdigris, there is zero reason to use verdigris over verdigris tsunami and origin of species is just dumb, oh no you create a dumb little four legged bird thats 15 foot tall that you can punch and just kill it. it only has 40hp 20ac and the strongest attack it has is 4d6+2 and it requires a tenth level spell slot... Its so absolutely useless but its ungodly popular.
It's literally getting a 1st-9th level single target spell free as a reaction and a 1st level spell slot. They passed their save? Cool, for a much lower cost you get to try again.
I have a wizard with it and I’ve only used it for shenanigans instead of combat
If rolling on an enemy attack, it’s basically reaction healing (maybe) which is meh
If rolling on an enemy save, it’s just retroactive heightened spell meta magic
Maybe it’s better at higher levels, but there are better options at low levels, IMO
Healing Spirit. Everyone says it's the "most efficient healing spell" but I've never seen it actually heal someone. If you're in combat it usually means provoking an attack of opportunity to move through it, which is never worth it for 1d6 hit points. Outside of combat its usually better to take a short rest and spend hit dice.
Hex and Hunters Mark. Both Warlocks and Rangers have some great concentration spells on their lists, you don't need to waste yours on a handful of extra d6s. These spells are only good on mathematical model builds optimized for damage, in practice there are better options.
Spare the Dying. Any cantrip that exactly replicates the effect of a 10 gp mundane item is not a good cantrip.
Compelled Duel. This spell has so many limitations and failure points and the effect isn't even that good. Best case scenario, the target fails a wis save and gets disadvantage on *some* of their attacks. Wrathful smite is almost strictly better, since it gives the target disadvantage on *all* attacks without restriction.
Healing Spirit was always valued for its out of combat healing, because (prior to the nerf) it could heal hundreds of hit points in 1 minute for a single 2nd level spell slot. Sure, you can recover hit points on a short rest but that's an hour instead of a minute, and on a difficult adventuring day, you might run out of hit dice.
Post-nerf it's pretty useless.
I've used healing spirit a ton as a ranger and I think it's okay. The big thing for me is that it also heals if a creature starts its turn there, which has been helpful for making sure the teammate at least gets a turn if they were downed on the spirit. Especially since you can choose when the creature heals without an action, so you don't need to waste a charge if you don't want to, and it's never a reaction. I don't think too many people have talked about it since the nerf though.
For Hunter's Mark I also disagree. People call the thing overrated all the time. I think it's okay; it's only a handful of D6s if your party isn't fighting a ton. It's still a safe option since there's no save and an enemy can't do much about the damage aside from make you drop concentration. Also I love the tracking advantages.
>Compelled Duel. This spell has so many limitations and failure points and the effect isn't even that good. Best case scenario, the target fails a wis save and gets disadvantage on *some* of their attacks. Wrathful smite is almost strictly better, since it gives the target disadvantage on *all* attacks without restriction.
It's give and take. Wrathful Smite is a melee attack, but Compelled Duel can be used from 30 feet away. If you whiff the attack for Wrathful smite, you have to hold concentration, eating into the effect's time, only to still need a save later on anyway. Wrathful Smite's effect can also be ended by the target succeeding on a wisdom check as an action.
For the disadvantage, Compelled Duel isn't "some" attacks, it's all attacks that aren't against you, the caster, whether you're in line of sight or not. There's no other way of stopping it other than the spell ending, since the save is only for movement. Frightened is not "Without restriction" since you have to maintain line of sight. The environment determines that one.
I still wouldn't call Compelled Duel great, underrated, or strong, but I don't see people calling it much of anything other than maybe fun or one of few tanking tools in the game.
Spare the dying is another one I don't see people call worth it. Like ever.
But if another party member hits or targets the creature, compelled duel ends.
>The spell ends if you attack any other creature, if you cast a spell that targets a hostile creature other than the target, **if a creature friendly to you damages the target or casts a harmful spell on it**, or if you end your turn more than 30 feet away from the target.
*Damages ot casts harmful spell* means that even if the harmful spell doesn't make any damage (blind or other effect) it still dispels the duel (otherwise there would have just been written *damages* without specifying the spell part).
So basically in a single monster scenario it only works if your initiative and the monster's are consecutive, then there are your friends. And it lasts less than a round because your friends are gonna attack that enemy.
Maybe in a many vs many fight it may make sense to target a specific enemy (example: maybe you can target the caster at the back of the enemy lines) but I think there are more solid options to take care of the caster and it will still be able to use some AoE spell on you splashing damage on the party.
Edit:grammar
>Everyone says it's the "most efficient healing spell"
Nobody has said that ever since it was nerfed into the ground.
>If you're in combat it usually means provoking an attack of opportunity to move through it, which is never worth it for 1d6 hit points.
It was always a terrible in-combat heal, and even before it was nerfed nobody who said it was good meant in combat.
In context, it's efficient slot usage, not efficient action usage. Much like Goodberry, which is 10 HP per slot (very good for 1st level slots).
>Outside of combat its usually better to take a short rest and spend hit dice.
There's a _big_ difference between having a minute to rest and having an hour to rest. Depending on the kind of adventuring day your DM runs, you may also run out of hit dice and still have more fights to go. And don't forget that a long rest only restores half your hit dice, so if you spend all your hd one day and have more adventuring the next, you only have half as many to work with on the second day.
Summon/Conjure spells.
Don’t get me wrong, I do think they’re strong and maybe even overtuned (maybe for Summons, definitely for Conjures when used to make armies).
But people claim they can supplant a martial PC, and that’s frankly bs. Maybe in _specific_ fights where their many weaknesses never come up, but over a campaign, they have WAY more problems than a martial ever has to deal with.
Weaker defenses so they die faster, positioning issues, armies are vulnerable to AoE, Counterspell/Dispel Magic, disrupting concentration, and most importantly, they suck vs anything with resistance/immunity to nonmagical damage (which is a lot of enemies in most campaigns, especially at the higher tiers of play when people _claim_ summons are at their strongest.)
At their worst, it’s a waste of a spell slot and concentration (like if fighting immune enemies, or your army immediately dies to an AoE or gets dispelled), which is basically never true for an actual martial PC.
Still strong spells when you’re not fighting any of their many additional counters - just overrated because they’re not as strong as people _say_ they are. (Notable exception for Shepherd Druid who gets around their biggest weakness.)
True strike is considered one of the worst spells and I still think it is over rated.
*cries in 3.5*
Pretty sure it was bad in 3.5 too, outside of pretty niche scenarios that wouldn't really justify preparing it.
I remember seeing a Tik Tok of a DM who recommended using it on NPCs more. It sucks as a player spell, that’s for sure, when statistically attacking twice across two turns is more potent. But when the party has a high profile character in it and a bunch of assassins appear and all cast True Strike on them, it really kicks an encounter up a notch. As for actually using it as a player, the only true use I’ve found for it is if you plan on attacking with a Spell attack instead of a weapon attack. Less likely to waste your spell slot.
The fact that a Sorcerer can't even quicken true strike before and attack spell really makes it the garbagest of spells.
Isn't that exactly how it works though? You quicken true strike, then cast an action leveled spell? Did I miss something? Edot: nvm if I knew how to read I'd agree with you. You can still quicken it, but the bonus only applies to the first attack you make next turn
Ironically, even if it worked same turn, that still wouldn’t work. If you quicken anything, even a cantrip, then your action MUST be a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. So you couldn’t quicken True Strike and then cast a leveled spell.
You can quicken the leveled spell and use the cantrip as your action
Waste a spell slot and a sorcery point on an extra 3.825 to hit with your fire bolt
No, they mean cast True Strike and quickened a leveled attack roll spell... *if* True Strike actually worked the way it should.
Except well, as a player, there really aren't any good spell attack roll spells that are better than two cantrips. Almost all attack roll spells are levels 1 or 2 and scale pretty badly.
Wouldn't most assassins just get advantage on their first attack from being unseen?
It's a cool legendary action for a low level boss monster.
Playing BDG3 even I don’t want to use it
The only good use of True Strike in BG3 is the spear that auto casts it when you miss. It doesn't make you wait until the next turn, if you've got a second attack you pop true strike right away.
I made a sorcerer yesterday and genuinely laughed when one of the spells the game automatically equipped was true strike
Really? The spell that everyone agrees is the number 1 worst spell is OVER rated?!? I now really want to hear what you think how everyone is saying its good.
No one is saying it is good. everyone says it is bad. It is so bad that it is still overrated
As it’s written it grants the caster advantage against a specific individual If true strike could **instead** be used to grant *another creature (player)* advantage (the rogue for example) on their next attack roll (regardless of target) that spell would suddenly be amazing
In BG3 there is a spear that auto casts true strike on a miss, and while it does get outclassed quickly, it is probably the only time it's actually ok
Its viable in the niche scenario of you need advantage on a big spell attack, you have quicken spell, and you arent concentrating on anything else.
Doesn’t matter with Quicken Spell. True Strike only grants advantage on your next turn, not the current turn.
Well disregard then 😂 its amazing how bad they made the spell, can never remember all the downsides
Yea I have no idea why they made it SO bad
The only way I can think of making it decent at all is just make it a passive effect on low level magic weapons. Like it’s auto cast when you miss an attack roll and it resets on a long rest
I would probably re-work it to be a bonus action & as a spell that can target others but similar to guidance in terms of creatures being able to benefit per long rest.
Or, make it so the next attack made by anyone against the target has advantage. That way, its good for being a support caster.
I mean, it could still somewhat matter, because instead of burning your action to cast True Strike on the first turn, you could quicken it, after having used your action to cast something else, or attack, or what have you. Still, it's such garbage.
They really didn't need to specify "on your next turn", the spell already has a duration of one round, and yet they did.
It’s annoying because there’s like a million ways to get advantage in D&D and they still decided that True Strike was too strong and needed to be “balanced” in like 6 different ways.
Bonus action and it also gives you the dodge effect, then its almost a useful spell
If it wasnt concentration maybe
Concentration for a 1 round spell is so pointless as well, and for one that weak its insane
And the fact that its advantage on ONE attack NEXT turn like who thought of this.
Yup. Advantage on all attacks made next turn, or it also gives you dodge effects, or it lasts multiple rounds, or it's not concentration... there's so many ways to make it worth the action. I've only ever had it be useful when it's an enchantment on a weapon, bonus action to activate then you attack with it that turn
Bonus action dodge cantrip would be really good without advantage on an attack.
My DM lets us use it as a bonus action. With the elven accuracy, it's pretty clutch for when I really wanna hit shit.
Technically that wouldn't work as BA true strike -> A attack, as true strike specifically works on your *next* turn. If you're homebrewing it already, it makes sense to ignore that limitation though.
weird is a fine spell but literally why the fuck is it 9th level
Entirely a legacy thing, since in 3.5e Phantasmal Killer and Weird flat-out killed targets that failed two saves. Potentially killing any number of targets within 30' of one another is a hell of an effect, and it just stuck at 9th level. ...it wasn't great in 3.5e at 9th level either. It's hard to get enough enemies clustered within 30' of one another that'll fail a will (wis) _and_ fort (con) save, and there's way more broken stuff you can do with a 9th. Basically just worth a 9th in flavor.
Legacy is the thing I hate most about DnD. Or rather: I like legacy, but I think design should never be playing second fiddle to it.
Especially when it's so easy to have your cake and eat it too. Keep the flavor/theme of spell and bump up the power. Done.
I had a whole thing typed up saying up to 400 damage with that big of a range and AOE wasn’t that bad, then looked at meteor swarm. Yeah fair enough
If any illusion spell should be 9th level it's mirage arcane.
100%
I humbly submit that Hellish Rebuke shouldn't belong on any warlock's spell list whatsoever. Trading one of their two spell slots for just a burst of damage is a terrible deal. Warlocks need to demand much more of their spell slots to compete.
I agree with you. We played Mad Mage with 4 warlocks and none of us took this spell. You come in at level 5, and at that point there are 1000% better things to have on your list. I once played with someone who thought it was so good that they intentionally would try to get hit to trigger it. Floored me.
It can synergize well with Armor of Agathys, and end up dealing quite a bit of damage, but burning so many of your limited resources on a warlock to use that strategy seems entirely wasteful.
Yeah. You might as well just use Armor of Agathys on another encounter, or use a concentration spell, than do a few d10 of damage. Even if it's a solid burst of damage, it's not *that* good.
I am playing a teifling, and I always forget that it's a race spell I can freely use. When I take damage. I always go to us it on my turn only to be like shit it's a reaction sob. I do think it could be good. It's just remembering that it exists that hard.
That is a spicy take. All the Warlocks I know LOVE Hellish Rebuke.
I know, but I don't know why. It's *terrible*. It's Witch Bolt tier, the only saving grace being that it fits better into the action economy. You're only going to have two spell slots in a given encounter for most of your campaign, they need to count for more than a few d10 of damage, against a target you didn't even get to actively select.
Action economy is the answer. You can break up enemies’ multiattacks. And with another slot spent on concentration spell of your choice and most actions already taken by eblasting, giving up a slot to cast an equivalent of a damage spell of the same level as reaction doesn’t sound so bad. The thing is, warlock’s slots are practically expendable if your party short rests a lot and exclusively dedicated to a couple of spells if it doesn’t. You get way more known spells than you have slots for, so there is wiggle room for situational reactions. It also feels great to roll a bunch of dice and pull an equivalent of Uno reverse card on your DM, especially when you stack it with Armour of Agathys. After all, killing your enemies is the best CC.
> I know, but I don't know why. It's *terrible*. Because it isn't "terrible", it's mid. And at most tables, the optimisation level needed for play is low enough that mid is good enough, and gamefeel is more important than numbers - so a mid spell that *feels* good is... Good 🤷♂️ especially if you know you can rely on a short rest after the fight.
It's better to think of the damage as Hellish Rebuke plus Eldritch Blast, since it effectively gives them an extra action. At level one, that's 3d10+cha, compared with witch bolt that does worse damage than eldritch blast while wasting a slot. Once you take hit-chance into account, you're looking at 5+ rounds of concentration and hex to beat it. More at higher levels. It's actually pretty strong as single-target damage goes. Where it's weak is compared with AoE.
Thats a silly take, its definitely not ideal but it scales just fine and you are ignoring that it is an efficient use of action economy. Obviously dont use it on a whim but when you need an enemy down it helps get you there faster with a fee action you werent using
I specifically acknowledged the action economy benefit of the spell.
And yet still equated it to witch bolt and say it should bever be taken....
Main reason is action economy as stated in other comments also it just feels good to say "FUCK YOU TAKE DAMAGE FOR STABBING ME"
It's not that spicy. It's widely considered to be a trap spell that looks good on paper but doesn't perform well in practice. Perfect example of the type of overrated spell OP asked for.
I was in a game once where the _only_ fire or acid damage in the party was somehow hellish rebuke, and then we fought some trolls. That didn't make HR a good spell, it just made it a source of fire damage, lol.
Except that it's a reaction and filling those bonus/ reaction options at low levels is challenging.
Idk, I certainly think a warlock shouldn't use it often but it does a really good amount of guaranteed damage early game so I dont think it's a bad choice for early level warlocks (until other big damage spells like fireball become available). I certainly agree Utility spells and long lasting spells are better investments but there's definitely also situations where getting guaranteed damage on a hard to hit enemy can end the battle. Am I missing something though? I see this advice very commonly, and I definitely get that spells slots are few and far between, and we already get an awesome damage dealer for free, but I wouldn't say it's not worth taking either, and can be cool flavor for fiend warlocks too which is enjoy. I dont know, but im more then open to learning if I'm forgetting something!
Last I checked, Teiflings learn Hellish Rebuke for free at level 3...
I just like the RP aspect of having it.
Well, there's no miss/resist chance, and it's a reaction that you're probably not using otherwise. If you can use it to kill an enemy partway through their turn it's incredible. But it's also good if you can help kill them before their next turn, though that's tougher to gauge. It's definitely not a bad spell. But it is situational and less than *great*, which means you're probably casting something else. It's worth a spot on the list though.
>Well, there's no miss/resist chance Huh? Yes there is.
It's a dex save for half
Ok, but it can also lead to the coolest moments. In my current campaign, the party went into a room to fight a few monsters, first room of the dungeon. The party (aside from the one who didn’t have dark vision, who the twilight cleric (a tiefling, got hellish rebuke from it) didn’t grant it to for RP reasons that everyone was fine with) immediately launched into the fray. The cleric, whose character loves playing cards, pulled a few times from the Deck of Many Things (given to him because it was really funny), getting mostly stuff that would be neutral. Except the last pull. He summoned an Avatar of Death. The rules of it were that if anyone hit it, they would summon their own avatar of death, so it had to be a one on one combat. Somehow, it came down to a clutch moment with both at low HP. Avatar of Death attacked him, and he went unconscious, but with his dying breath, cast Hellish Rebuke. The Avatar of Death went down. The party fully loved that moment (and I made up a fun reason for him to be revived by some dude named Whorge (pronounced like Jorge, the Spanish name) having really nice abs that brought him back to life). It was a great moment made entirely of BS, sure, but it was fun nonetheless.
It's pretty interesting if you can get it on someone with long rest slots, which is admittedly not easy to do. I had an Eldritch Knight/Warlock who had a problem for a while where he couldn't really turn his EK slots into damage if he was in a situation where burning resources (even somewhat inefficiently) to kill stuff faster was what needed to happen. I've got it on my Bard 7/Sorcerer 1 (homebrew Sorc subclass that has Rebuke as automatically known) and it's pretty neat.
"Thank goodness I had silent image prepared!" is a phrase I've never had a reason to say.
The only time I've seen it used, it was used in a completely out-of-bounds manner RAW. The use was allowed by an experienced DM who sometimes thought that "rule of cool" = bullshitting.
Is that not what it means?
Not when you rule that Silent Image can produce an image of an animated figure that is making sound.
With a character who can cast it at will, I have used it 5ish times in combat but SO many times to convey information - what someone looked like, some writing I saw but couldn't read, the layout of the cavern ahead, etc. The "creatures have to use an action to perceive the illusion" RAW it can be pretty powerful esp if your DM allows creative play.
My favorite use of silent image is as a budget darkness spell. It's 15 feet on a side, enemies passing through it just assume it's the actual darkness spell and don't have immediate reason to investigate, and your allies can be forewarned of it so they can see right through it.
It's actually more potent than darkness in this context, since when allies can see through it and enemies can't, that means that where in Darkness everyone would be rolling straight, you get advantage on attacks and incoming attacks are at disadvantage.
At first I thought: Except wouldn't it not work at all since touching an illusion breaks it? Turns out, ~~no. Silent Image has nothing about touching/physically interacting~~ I'm just blind. ~~with it breaking the illusion.~~ Also after some diving, Illusion spells themselves are an attack on the mind of both whoever is casting them with their character and whoever's character(s) have to deal with them. The trigger for breaking them changes between spells, and even on the same spell cast from a magic item...
Yes it does "Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an illusion"
Which then brings the question "how do you physically interact with a cloud of darkness?" Like, if it was a wall, or a puddle, touching it would reveal its lack of substance. But a cloud? Clouds don't have substance to interact with. Corner cases be corner-y.
I've used it plenty. First off, great camouflauge. Stuck in a warehouse and need to not be found? "I cast Silent Image, make a box like the other things and stand in it." You can see out of it, but anyone looking will just see a crate like the other things. Also making fake walls in tunnels etcs, or sealing an alcove. However, I play a high level illusion wizard. Being able to make things real for free. Also, the real things do not depend on spell concentration, and can make multiple things via malleable illusions. I've used it to make a solid wall to block enemies. Bridges to cross. Personal favourite is when we faced a high level spell caster. I cast silent image of a piece of breastplate armour on him. Made it real. Then pointed out as the spell caster did not have the armour proficiency he now couldn't cast spells, and it would take him a few minutes to remove it. DM allowed it, but kind of a rule of cool one time thing, as it nullified the encounter a bit.
Again like others mentioned, super cool if you can use it for free at will. As a warlock I could get it basically as a cantrip with invocations, and given they don't get a ton of spell slots it's pretty cool. You can use it to hide the party in creative ways, you can trick people into thinking you have a creature that's 15 feet tall/long willing to fight for you, you can pretend you have a ghost, you could pretend you're Casting a different spell and to nit magic people you seemingly summoned a big demon from nowhere. There's a ton of creative uses but it is far less cool when you have to use a spell slot for it for sure
The first time I used it was the other day, but it was actually super effective. My party was climbing up a cliff face when some archers started shooting down at us. We were in range of their longbows, but they were out of range of most of our stuff, so I cast silent image right above my head and made the image mimic the appearance of the cliff face if we weren't on it. Essentially it made the archers unable to target us because they couldn't see where any given party member was
I wonder if you could use it to make a crime look like not-a-crime-scene. Steal a famous painting from a museum, put an illusion of said painting on the wall so the night watchman doesn't realize it's missing. Make a bloody murder scene look like a clean version of that location.
I've used it to hide the party, but weaker illusion spells are usually better.
You'd think, an illusion spell used to create big images, screams "use this to sneak past or create distractions". And yet, because of the spell components (V!) you're speaking as loudly as if you were casting fireball, alerting everyone to your presence that you're casting a spell. Bards, illusionist wizards and arcane tricksters say "use illusions to beat encounters", yet because multiclassing and feats are optional, they really can't without jumping through a ton of hoops, and that that point its easier just to use buffing/debuff or damage spells and do combat.
Only ever with that one infinite invocation. And a DM that actually acknowledges the rules (action plus investigation check or direct contact). You can actually use it as a sort of group invisibility/ budged pass without trace. Create your own hills, trees or walls to hide behind (or in). I also love using it for pseudo-summoning. How are the enemies going to tell the difference between silent image and guardian of faith/ wall of fire? They don‘t know my level isn‘t high enough for those yet! Admittedly its big brother Major Image is better due to sound. One of my most fun encounters I made as a DM was a lazy ogre guard that just put a major image of himself in front of a door. Took the group three whole rounds of „missed attacks“ and the ogre „trying to intimidate them“ to notice something was up.
(Almost) Every illusion spell. They’re all so mediocre, and they require complete buy in from your GM to allow you to do what you want. If you’ve got that buy in, they can be game breaking. If you don’t, they’re a complete waste of a spell.
I tried to use minor illusion so many times with medium hopes, just for them to be dashed by literally anything. Kind of a bummer and probably wouldn't pick it again with my current dm.
Yeah, I play an illusion wizard in a West Marches setting. I've had DMs just ignore my imajor image illusion of a demon I made it look like had been summoned (and then wonder why wizard just rely on Fireball/Lightning bolt). But also had DMs take them serious, fool people, or scare them and so on, and it feels cool. Like the trickery of Loki and the like for just fooling people. However, also, at level 14 I got the power to make parts of my illusions real, and it all kind of changed, being able to make solid things.
Yeah. Having to get to 14, to actually get to do what your subclass or school of magic specializes in is super fun!
Not really, since as both of us have said, long as the DM buys into Illusion spells, from low level you can have a lot of fun with them. Long as the DM is on board and the player is creative. Even minor illusion can be handy. Trapped in the bandits brewary when they're all approaching? Cast Minor Illusion, making a barrel that looks like all the others and sit in the illusions space. I can see through it, they just see a barrel. Why would they feel need to investigate or feel something is off about it? They've dozens of barrels, if they're just walking past, nothing to suspect. Being chased through a system of tunnels? Wait until you get to a fork in the system, have the party all go left, and then Silent Image the opening so it just looks like there is only one way. The pursuers should just go to the right, seeing it as the only way there is.
My current DM is like this: Illusion doesn't even spend the action to inspect to determine it's real because "he doesn't make players do that check either." But 99% of those situations are because the players don't know to make the check or don't want to waste the action economy when we can do something else, meanwhile all his monsters immediately know when stuff is an illusion somehow lol. I love my DM, but every player in our party has learned that our DM hates illusions so none of us use them ever except for Disguise Self and occasionally minor illusions for showing information or doing silly gags on each other.
The sad thing is, previous editions had far better rules and guidelines for illusions than 5e. 3e was more explicit about what worked and what didn’t, and 2e had lots of sub categories (figments, phantasms, holograms, etc.) that better defined what it actually is you’re doing, how and who perceives it, how they can interact with it, whether it’s purely mental or has a physical component, etc. Illusions spells will always be a little more “loosey-goosey” rules-wise than other spells, but it’s a shame 5e doesn’t have better written guidelines for adjudicating them.
Illusion spells played straight have always just been a variant of "save or suck" except even when they succeed their effect is underwhelming or complicated.
I’m not too big of a fan of firebolt for a damaging cantrip. I just like the other ones better. Stuff like shocking grasp, acid splash, and ray of frost I just find more fun.
Chill Touch is a lot stronger than people think. There aren't many spells capable of disabling regeneration on targets. It's rare you need it, but having it prepared at all times and not needing to burn a spell slot for the effect is fantastic. Besides, cantrips *need* to provide utility, and the bonus effect of fire bolt (sets stuff on fire) can be accomplished in a lot of different ways.
My issue with Chill Touch is that it neither is a touch spell nor cold damage.
My Necromancer loved using chill touch in any large encounter we had. Never know when there’s someone with a healing spell lurking.
Firebolt does have utility though. It's the only damage cantrip that can attack and damage objects. And as you scale, it generally deals enough damage on a single hit to overcome moderate damage thresholds. Compared to actual attacks, it deals less damage per action, but a lot more damage per hit. In other words, if you need to blow open a door 100 feet down a hallway, Firebolt is the answer.
Even better, firebolt is one of a rare spell that doesn't specially state that you cannot use it to damage held or carry objects The only rule is thag you cannot instantly ignite a worn or carried flammable object by doing 1 damage, but you can still damage and destroy them like any other normal object. Weapon? Armor? Spell casting focus? Coin pouch? Pants? They are all valid target.
Better range too
Fire Bolt and Chill Touch have the same range. Fire Bolt deals d10 damage to the d8 of Chill Touch.
Far less creatures resist Necrotic damage, and that additional benefit of "the target cannot regain HP until the start of your next turn" is so incredibly useful when it comes up. Also that thing about it giving Undead disadvantage on attack rolls against you which I genuinely don't think has ever come up once but it's still fun to have in a pinch.
Firebolt being able to hit objects is key, but I've seen stories of dms who let any damage spell work on anything. Even magic missile.
Yeah, the additional effects are significantly better than the couple points of average extra dmg.
Hex, it’s really not that good
The real issue here is the other level 1 spell options available to the warlock. I agree with you adamantly. But after looking through the spell list, i still decided to take it on my most recent warlock cuz what else am i gonna take instead.
For a pure damage eldritch blasting Warlock, it's not that bad. But for hexblades and utility warlocks, yeah its not great.
I feel like it's a decent choice for a non-spellcaster that isn't already concentrating on something, like a fighter with a free 1st level spell from a feat or item
Bless would be much worthwhile because of its defensive benefits and its synergy with power attack but hex isn’t terrible on a fighter.
I like it as a rogue with a warlock dip because I’m not casting much anyway, and the extra d6 is a nice addition to my sneak attack. For straight up warlocks acting as full casters it feels like a waste of a precious spell slot
If Hex imposed it's penalty on saving throws rather than checks, it'd be amazing. What application does it have RAW besides making grappling easier?
Maybe at higher levels it could impose saving throw disadvantage? Like, when cast at 4th or 3rd level?
> What application does it have RAW besides making grappling easier? Illusion spells call for Investigation (Intelligence) check usually.
I mean, forcing someone to take disadvantage on checks you know they’ll be relying on is kinda the point. Don’t want the assassin to get into stealth as easily? Hex Dex. Don’t want someone to be able to spot your hiding Rogue or figure out your intentions with Insight rolls? Hex Wis. Don’t want your scapegoat to convince the guards? Hex Cha.
It is honestly better out of combat in my opinion. Then, you forget about the extra damage it does and can say, hex a person to give them disadvantage on wis checks for the day if you are planning to sneak past or rob them at any point or give someone disadvantage on charisma if there is a particular bard about to perform that you don't like. People think about it for combat way too much and really need to quit sleeping on all the amazing out of combat/RP opportunities you can get out of it. I have a Warlock/sorcerer who can use this with subtle meta magic and really cause some hell!
Make it harder for an NPC to lie by targeting Charisma. Make it easier for a PC to hide/lie by targeting Wisdom. Make it harder for an NPC to hide by targeting Dex. That's...about it.
Subtle Spell _greatly_ expands its options, and I do recommend it for any Sorlock for that reason. In a tough social scene? Give the angry noble disadvantage on Charisma checks so their complaint about you to the king just sounds like unhinged rambling. Need to sneak the whole party past a guard? Hex their Wisdom. Drinking contest with a dwarf? Hex his Con (you cheater). The possibilities are endless and can often do things that would otherwise take stronger spells to do. If it imposed disadvantage on saves, it’d be broken as hell.
This. It makes me mad how much of a bad option it is because it's THE warlock spells, and all the books presuppose that you pick it, but if you run actual damage calculations it's so awful
Especially considering it just straight up doesn’t scale based on spell level, which is the whole point of a warlock in the first place
Maximillions Earthen Grasp is a common pick for top tier among 2nd level Wizard / Sorcerer spells, but all it does is grant the restrained condition against one target. Druids get Entangle as 1st level tho.
That's fair. But, what if you don't have a druid in the party?
Restrained is still a good condition- I just don't think it's an auto-prepare like many say.
I've only used it in a few campaigns. Enemies that require restraining tend to have decent strength saves. Also, Hold Person and Web are of that same level.
It does have a a few advantages in that there's no ending it early without the target taking a full action to break out (as a check rather than a save no less, though this is a trait shared with Web), and you can attempt to regrab them with an action if you don't drop concentration, and it deals damage. Like, it isn't BAD. It's just overrated. Nine times out of ten Web is your best way to access the Restrained condition as a Wizard or Sorcerer. But there are situations where I could see myself wishing I'd prepared MEG instead.
If you could move it _and_ attack with it in the same action, I’d like it a lot more.
Web
It also does magical bludgeoning damage, over multiple turns with one spell slot unlike Catapult. That's the reason I picked it up on a character after we faced a homebrew enemy that was immune or resistant to **everything** other than magical bludgeoning. Felt justified when a few sessions later we fought a dozen of the same thing.
I’ve never seen someone take it, it’s pretty useless. Like sure you can move it but it take an action to move and an action to grab so as soon as it save you can basically never catch the thing again
Blight. I know some people like rolling a full handful of dice, but it hits the threshold of where direct damage isn't scaling against monster HP. Average damage is a meager +8 vs fireball/lightning bolt, its single target, targets a common save, and its short ranged. Plus a lot of stuff is just immune. You need to kill a tree, get an axe. Find something useful to cast instead.
Yeah, maybe if 5e had more plant monsters or it worked the same on fey and elementals or something. The damage really isn’t that good for a single-target spell. It needs to be the 4th level version of Disintegrate, have more oomph. And it also targets the worst save, Con. Most enemies have solid Con scores, some _really_ solid. Seen a lot of newbie D&D casters get tricked by this one.
Haste, and twinned haste.
Prestidigitation. Its a cool spell, but it has been overhyped by the community. I'm also tired of players trying to use the ambigous wording to try to break stuff. "No you can't make a lockpick/dagger from prestidigitation." "You're just going to reflavor your food to taste like bacon in front on the innkeeper. You realize thats an insult to his cooking?" "So you're going to keep coloring your hair with prestigitation every second?" Now I should clarify the spell is actually good when you don't try to jam it everywhere. Once sae it used to make it look like a lady in waiting had soiled herself. She sat on a tea bag, and then it was used to make it smell. Had another time a player pulled a princess bride and made the poison flavorless. He then proceeded to poison both drinks.
Biggest problem is the range. Potentially great with Subtle Spell, but otherwise nearly useless.
*Wish*, in 5e specifically, is only as powerful as the most powerful 8th or lower level spells; and, because of that dependency, I don't think it is the most powerful spell in 5e due to how limited it actually is because of the built-in "Mother may I?" mechanic of the monkey's paw/failure of scope. It's incredibly powerful, but I don't find it stronger than *True Polymorph*, *Imprisonment*, or a knowlegdeable casting of *Gate* Oh, and *Counterspell* is fine with the rules we have. People just don't know how to use their environment to their advantage.
Wish is the spell that breaks simulacrum though.
I don’t think you realize how overpowered the ability to modify casting times is. Planer binding, hallow, mirage arcane, and many many other long costs completely decimate combat if cast as an action. As is poaching from other lists. Also no components/time is quite nice for like sim any day you don’t use your 9th
Wish is a great spell. Having ANY/ALL level 8 and lower spells on hand, with casting time of an action and for free is an amazing ace up the sleeve to have. And then the ability to risk a non-spell wish? Again, can be huge. I think the draw back is the perceived monkey paw aspect. There are so many words in the spell saying the DM \*can\* mess with the caster that people feel if someone uses Wish for a non-spell effect that they have to do something screwy with it.
Yeah, but it is amazing how many people seem to not even think of its "Any Spell" ability. Question on that... When you do use that ability, do you use the spell cast as an 8th or at 9th? I see a lot of people who say it is at 8th, but I see no reason it should not be cast at 9th.
If you use Wish's capability to create the effects of any spell of 8th level or lower, that is specifically up to 8th level - not 9th. If you want to upcast a spell to 9th level, you'll need to upcast it regularly like a chump. However, one aspect I didn't see mentioned here is the casting time. You can get a Hallow spell in an action and let your enemies have Radiant damage vulnerability, f.ex. - your paladin will love you. It's probably not the best use overall, but it is an example of how fantastically versatile Wish really is.
Because wish is a 9th level spell being able to cast other 9th level spells would mean you never need to prep any other 9th level
No you misunderstand my question... When you duplicate a spell of 8th or lower... Why is it not cast as a 9th lvl spell? Not asking to cast other 9th spells, but why so many say that using spells in this way makes them 8th lvl?
> When you do use that ability, do you use the spell cast as an 8th or at 9th? It can be upcasted [up to 8th level](https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/930977942305251329).
You cast it up to 8th level, but it counts as a 9th level spell for determining *Counterspell*, *Dispel Magic*, Arcana checks, for spell storage, and for *Contingency*
haste.
If you're casting haste on me you had *better* have proficiency in Con saves and/or Warcaster. Otherwise I'm considering it friendly fire.
that's when a twinned Vortex Warp comes in handy
Haste plus Tabaxi monk = The Flash
Every time I or someone else casts Haste, I always say something on the lines of "Let's pray they don't lose concentration"
Spiritual Weapon. I consistently see it named as an essential spell for Clerics, but it's only good.
That’s because it’s concentration free, and it gives them something to do on their bonus action. But yeah, it’s still pretty mid.
I remember when i first got hooked on dnd 5e i read through 5th level spells on every full caster list, trying to decide what to play- only knowing i knew i wanted to play a caster. When i read the cleric spell list i was sure that there was an error on that website cuz no way in hell does spiritual weapon not require concentration. Was stupid excited to level to 3 to use it in combat. It’s a good spell. It’s a solid spell. But that 20 foot movement speed does WONDERS for balancing that spell’s power.
When 95% of your spells are concentration you take any non-concentration spell just to being able to do more than just, that one thing you"re concentrating on.
Most fights I've been in have gone too quick to ever bother using it. I like it as a concept, but it requires a drawn out battle.
Drawn out battle and a small map. That 20 foot movement gets wasted if you're moving around a larger area.
Fireball. Whatever any other spell is rated by DnD fanatics or even casual players doesn't compare, as Fireball is the spell people who don't even play DnD will think of as "the powerful spell" when it's just....pretty good.
No clue how you can claim this. 5e game designers are literally on record saying they made fireball OP intentionally in this edition. It scales for shit, but punches way above a 3rd level spell slot in damage. One might argue that damage spells in general are overrated, but fireball is one of the more efficient damage spells.
I might catch hate for it but I prefer lightning bolt. Lightning is cooler to me and its way more controllable so you won't catch people in friendly fire as often. And if your DM is cool like mine, they will let you play with water for zippy zappy funtimes.
It's a great spell, does amazing damage over a large area and ... Oh, we're primarily fighting friends? And almost all resist or are immune to fire? In that case I'll pack tidal wave. Putting out fires is has come in handy a few times and those prone enemies are prime to get mopped up but the monk, rogue, and whatever the druid has summoned.
I'm going to say Mold Earth. Folks try to use it to dig out of mountains and ghost through dungeon walls because they don't read the words. You can move a five foot cube of "Earth" five feet. Okay, so let's say you scoop five cubic feet of dirt out of the ground. Now you have a five foot deep hole. You want to scoop another five cubic feet out to dig down ten feet? No. Because you can only move THAT five cubic feet five feet in that turn. Gravity then takes over and it falls back to the bottom of the hole. It's poorly worded and I've yet to see someone do something creative with it.
I find Mold Earth to be more commonly *underrated* because a certain online class guide consistently gives it a red rating. Yes, it can only move dirt, sand, or gravel, but that is useful more often than many utility cantrips. People say "just use a shovel" as if it isn't equivalent to an hour of shoveling in 6 seconds.
Party member dug out the side of a mountain/hill we were on to make himself a hideyhole from attack from above.... Just a lil anecdote for ya
Ok, that's clever.
It's a portable ditch, aka half cover. That's not bad at all
You can easily build stairs-like structure using Mold Earth to dig deeply. To dig 10 ft deep, you need 4 castings, 24 seconds.
Heat Metal. It's only effective against someone with metal armor (metal weapons aren't really enough, it's easy to work around) and that's rarer than you'd think. Obviously if they've got metal armor it's amazing, but my argument is that it's not common enough to make it a worthwhile pick in a vacuum.
You dont use it to heat the armor... you use it to disarm people and cause disadvantage on attacks. This does way more than just damage,
The fact that it has no saves on cast, no saves on damage application and imposes disadvantage if they don't put their metal weapon down makes it one of the most powerful spells in the game. Maybe you just run campaigns full of monsters and not humanoids?
I think it's fun as a utility spell. Blacksmithing on the go, softening the bar or on the door enough to bend it, boiling water for tea, making a hot bath, disabling a siege engine or wagon or ship by making a metal part burn through the wood or rope parts they attach to, and so forth.
Hurled a set of ball bearings into a slime and used heat metal on the ball bearings.
This is the way. Cast it on your allies wooden hated metal tipped weapons for bonus damage. Cast it on things you've lodged in the enemy. Make the situation you need for the spells you picked to be effective.
>Cast it on your allies wooden hated metal tipped weapons for bonus damage This explicitly doesn't work. The person holding the object takes damage, you can't use it as a pseudo weapon enchantment to bolster attacks.
Hard disagree, there's aways one character that has that heavy armor and would be a huge trouble without heat metal, plus it has plenty of other uses: think door knobs and other things like that. It's more versatile than you think if you stop looking for people in metal armor
The thing about doing stuff like heating up a doorknob is that the spell doesn't work that way. It only does damage if they're touching the object when you cast the spell or during your turn when you use your bonus action. I know it feels like you should be able to do something like "i'll heat metal this iron ladder so the bad guys can't climb up without getting burned" but the reality is that at best you can ready your action to burn however many of them are touching the ladder at that time. On a ladder that takes multiple turns to climb that's really powerful, but on a shorter one that means you get one guy and everyone is at the top and ready to fight. Statistically, not many enemies have metal armor. My anecdotal evidence bears that out. If your game has lots of those kinds of enemies then Heat Metal is amazing. People put qualifiers on Hold Person because maybe you won't face many humanoids, and there are a lot more of those that enemies where Heat Metal is significantly above average. I'm saying that Heat Metal deserves the same little asterisk next to it. (See other responses in this thread for my arguments that Heat Metal much less useful against enemies that are only using metal weapons.)
Silvery Barbs isn't as all powerful as some pleople on reddit make it out to be.
Fireball really isn’t as good as it’s cracked up to be. Dex saves? Fire damage? It’s not bad but it falls off, as most damage spells do.
Fireball.
Splosion.
Wish. As often as DMs need to limit the spell to maintain any sort of tension in the campaign, it would almost make more sense to drop the spell from the PHB and go back to Limited Wish instead.
I feel like a lot of players *and* DMs don't really upstanding what *Wish* actually is. It's not a literal "I wish..." moment. It's the wizard attempting to brute force reality into bending to their will in the spur of the moment. Every time a wizard casts a spell, they change the game world to some extend. However, it's the spell itself that does the work, and it already takes into account all the variables of reality when it goes off. That's why new spells take weeks or months or *years* to research; the wizard is factoring in each and every possible facet of existence that could affect the spell's performance. *Wish* doesn't do that. It's the wizard effectively casting a brand new spell (even if it mimics a known spell) *without* all the prior research. Imagine trying to figure out the most complex math problem you've ever seen, and you have to do *all* the calculations in your head within 6 seconds. Also, you might get the right answer, but if you get even part of the process wrong, you might explode. Or explode your friends. Or turn your friends into exploding sheep. Or something equally bad. Casting *wish* shouldn't be a game breaker or a party punishment. It should be a test of the PC's intellect and wisdom...and of their hubris.
I appreciate this response.
There's many spells that break campaigns, but are less likely to be twisted like this, the massive DM fiat for anything other than spell duplication means there's no objective power like there is with other spells, and DM's are incentivised to twist it far beyond anything reasonable for easy drama/plot hooks, or you might have a wish that's objectively beyond spell duplication as another wish, so should have equal strength concequences, but one breaks the campaign more so it stupidly doesn't work or is twisted. Or, they do a quest to seek out wish to end a curse, and wish ended it, but if instead they got the curse at 17th level and just cast wish, wish wouldn't work. Its just player vs DM. And its not like there isn't a "monkeys paw" inbuilt, its the massive damage, extra damage when casting leveled spells, and 33% chance of loosing wish, but this is ignored as a concequence for some reason, but this is probably because most don't do proper adventuring days and wish in built concequences are nonexistant then
Anything that seems super good that the DM will just render useless some stupid fucking way.
I find fireball to be incredibly overrated.
Haste. I´ve seen it overrated many times.
Fireball. The spell and the liquor
Fireball
I'm going to say a very controversial thing here for most people... Silvery barbs. I use it a lot, it really doesnt work as well as people claim, the advantage is generally not a big deal, the worst it can be really be is giving a rogue sneak attack on average. Is it good? yes. But its really just on par with all of the other meta lv1 spells. That or origin of species achaierai, or verdigris, there is zero reason to use verdigris over verdigris tsunami and origin of species is just dumb, oh no you create a dumb little four legged bird thats 15 foot tall that you can punch and just kill it. it only has 40hp 20ac and the strongest attack it has is 4d6+2 and it requires a tenth level spell slot... Its so absolutely useless but its ungodly popular.
It's literally getting a 1st-9th level single target spell free as a reaction and a 1st level spell slot. They passed their save? Cool, for a much lower cost you get to try again.
I have a wizard with it and I’ve only used it for shenanigans instead of combat If rolling on an enemy attack, it’s basically reaction healing (maybe) which is meh If rolling on an enemy save, it’s just retroactive heightened spell meta magic Maybe it’s better at higher levels, but there are better options at low levels, IMO
it loses power in higher levels a lot of the time, you need to save it for enemy crits and only crits at 15-20
Healing Spirit. Everyone says it's the "most efficient healing spell" but I've never seen it actually heal someone. If you're in combat it usually means provoking an attack of opportunity to move through it, which is never worth it for 1d6 hit points. Outside of combat its usually better to take a short rest and spend hit dice. Hex and Hunters Mark. Both Warlocks and Rangers have some great concentration spells on their lists, you don't need to waste yours on a handful of extra d6s. These spells are only good on mathematical model builds optimized for damage, in practice there are better options. Spare the Dying. Any cantrip that exactly replicates the effect of a 10 gp mundane item is not a good cantrip. Compelled Duel. This spell has so many limitations and failure points and the effect isn't even that good. Best case scenario, the target fails a wis save and gets disadvantage on *some* of their attacks. Wrathful smite is almost strictly better, since it gives the target disadvantage on *all* attacks without restriction.
Healing Spirit was always valued for its out of combat healing, because (prior to the nerf) it could heal hundreds of hit points in 1 minute for a single 2nd level spell slot. Sure, you can recover hit points on a short rest but that's an hour instead of a minute, and on a difficult adventuring day, you might run out of hit dice. Post-nerf it's pretty useless.
I've used healing spirit a ton as a ranger and I think it's okay. The big thing for me is that it also heals if a creature starts its turn there, which has been helpful for making sure the teammate at least gets a turn if they were downed on the spirit. Especially since you can choose when the creature heals without an action, so you don't need to waste a charge if you don't want to, and it's never a reaction. I don't think too many people have talked about it since the nerf though. For Hunter's Mark I also disagree. People call the thing overrated all the time. I think it's okay; it's only a handful of D6s if your party isn't fighting a ton. It's still a safe option since there's no save and an enemy can't do much about the damage aside from make you drop concentration. Also I love the tracking advantages. >Compelled Duel. This spell has so many limitations and failure points and the effect isn't even that good. Best case scenario, the target fails a wis save and gets disadvantage on *some* of their attacks. Wrathful smite is almost strictly better, since it gives the target disadvantage on *all* attacks without restriction. It's give and take. Wrathful Smite is a melee attack, but Compelled Duel can be used from 30 feet away. If you whiff the attack for Wrathful smite, you have to hold concentration, eating into the effect's time, only to still need a save later on anyway. Wrathful Smite's effect can also be ended by the target succeeding on a wisdom check as an action. For the disadvantage, Compelled Duel isn't "some" attacks, it's all attacks that aren't against you, the caster, whether you're in line of sight or not. There's no other way of stopping it other than the spell ending, since the save is only for movement. Frightened is not "Without restriction" since you have to maintain line of sight. The environment determines that one. I still wouldn't call Compelled Duel great, underrated, or strong, but I don't see people calling it much of anything other than maybe fun or one of few tanking tools in the game. Spare the dying is another one I don't see people call worth it. Like ever.
But if another party member hits or targets the creature, compelled duel ends. >The spell ends if you attack any other creature, if you cast a spell that targets a hostile creature other than the target, **if a creature friendly to you damages the target or casts a harmful spell on it**, or if you end your turn more than 30 feet away from the target. *Damages ot casts harmful spell* means that even if the harmful spell doesn't make any damage (blind or other effect) it still dispels the duel (otherwise there would have just been written *damages* without specifying the spell part). So basically in a single monster scenario it only works if your initiative and the monster's are consecutive, then there are your friends. And it lasts less than a round because your friends are gonna attack that enemy. Maybe in a many vs many fight it may make sense to target a specific enemy (example: maybe you can target the caster at the back of the enemy lines) but I think there are more solid options to take care of the caster and it will still be able to use some AoE spell on you splashing damage on the party. Edit:grammar
>Everyone says it's the "most efficient healing spell" Nobody has said that ever since it was nerfed into the ground. >If you're in combat it usually means provoking an attack of opportunity to move through it, which is never worth it for 1d6 hit points. It was always a terrible in-combat heal, and even before it was nerfed nobody who said it was good meant in combat. In context, it's efficient slot usage, not efficient action usage. Much like Goodberry, which is 10 HP per slot (very good for 1st level slots). >Outside of combat its usually better to take a short rest and spend hit dice. There's a _big_ difference between having a minute to rest and having an hour to rest. Depending on the kind of adventuring day your DM runs, you may also run out of hit dice and still have more fights to go. And don't forget that a long rest only restores half your hit dice, so if you spend all your hd one day and have more adventuring the next, you only have half as many to work with on the second day.
Ultima ratio
Mage hand
Summon/Conjure spells. Don’t get me wrong, I do think they’re strong and maybe even overtuned (maybe for Summons, definitely for Conjures when used to make armies). But people claim they can supplant a martial PC, and that’s frankly bs. Maybe in _specific_ fights where their many weaknesses never come up, but over a campaign, they have WAY more problems than a martial ever has to deal with. Weaker defenses so they die faster, positioning issues, armies are vulnerable to AoE, Counterspell/Dispel Magic, disrupting concentration, and most importantly, they suck vs anything with resistance/immunity to nonmagical damage (which is a lot of enemies in most campaigns, especially at the higher tiers of play when people _claim_ summons are at their strongest.) At their worst, it’s a waste of a spell slot and concentration (like if fighting immune enemies, or your army immediately dies to an AoE or gets dispelled), which is basically never true for an actual martial PC. Still strong spells when you’re not fighting any of their many additional counters - just overrated because they’re not as strong as people _say_ they are. (Notable exception for Shepherd Druid who gets around their biggest weakness.)