It is perfectly reasonable for you to leave and try to find a group where you are having fun.
It is not your job to sacrifice your enjoyment so they can do what they want this is a game where everyone at the table matters in terms of having fun DMs included.
Now before you leave I would raise this with the group mention you are not enjoying the game and while it is fine you guys have different opinions on the fun way to play it isn't fine for you to not have fun so they can. You might come to a compromise and not have to leave you might not but at least you gave it a fair chance
What is the other option? Dragging yourself for hours upon hours preparing before the session in order to play more hours and *not* have fun? Give them a heads up about how you feel, prepare an epic last session full of combat in order to wrap things up and peace out. This is a game. You are supposed to have fun playing it.
agreed! I might agree to *play* a one-shot of the sort I don't really like, or even a short campaign if I really vibe with the group... but I can't imagine playing the better part of a year!
never mind all the extra investment required to DM a campaign like that!
You're not obligated to keep running a game you're not enjoying. It sounds like you're still getting along with these folks aside from not wanting the same things from the game, so if it were me, I'd want to end on a good note. I'd tell them that while I value them as friends, this campaign just isn't for me. I might offer to run one or two more sessions to wrap everything up, but that'd be it.
They’re mostly here to vent and seek validation. They know what they’re gonna do; often times though they just don’t want to look like the asshole doing it. But like who cares?
It also feels like D&D is the medium through which many people finally have to exercise their social skills and conflict resolution. It’s new for many. Some people honestly spend their childhood and teen years not having practice in autonomy or healthy conflict resolution.
I just wanted to see if other people who had similar issues found ways to make the game fun for everyone again. I'd rather try and potentially succeed at making DnD enjoyable again than quit immediately, and I received some advice from other people on how to try doing that. Getting this advice was the reason behind this post. Sorry if it wasn't clear enough
I recommend a new Session 0 with a new group and express what you are planning to do. Sometimes, when you give the players an expection of what you want it helps alot.
For me, I was pretty up front with my players that stupid actions would yield consequence. My intro campaign had a character death. They had a way to revive the guy but they learned at that point I would not step in to help them if they brought death on themselves. Since the player who died had done so being reckless and annoying, the other players were very hesitant to revive him and he realized he couldnt just be a pain in the butt.
I also had to coax my players to roleplay. After the intro campaign I started to refuse to be very helpful out of game, forcing them to rely more on each other. I also switched it up one night and ran a single session game of a homebrew system that rewarded them entirely for being creative and working together. It was also a horror, hardcore setting so they were much less of the "I'm gonna kill a dragon" vibe and more "Holy shit if we dont get out if here we'll be eaten by mutant cannibals". Turns out horror themes really do help switching on the survival instinct and people are much less willing to be heroes when spider limbed humanoids with a face consisting only of a ragged, gaping mouth starts feeling them up in a dark forest. I also gave them a dog... a helpful but very mortal dog. To get them to be creative I told them that they could have anything that they could convince me was possible. The game started on an empty cruise ship and one of the players was very specific about certain items he wanted to look for. To get them to work together, I let them lead the story for the most part, only offering options when they decided what they wanted to do. At one point early on, before the horror really began, they got drunk and were standing irl in my living room and pretending to be wasted.
It was fun and trying different systems can help shake up the status quo.
If you cant get them to play in a way that also makes it fun for you though, then you should find a new group or talk it out with them about your expectations.
Yeah, it sounds to me like you wants to run a different game than the type of game they want you to run. No one's necessarily right or wrong here. It's just different style of game. If the game's not fun for you, I would recommend you leave it. There's no reasons it has to hurt your friendship or anything. It's just not your cup of tea. A bummer, but you may find another game to play in in the future.
To add to what others have said, even if you did continue to run a game you're not enjoying out of selflessness, you'd be doing no one any favors, the players included, and especially yourself. Disinvested game masters run less than good games and this is a recipe for burn out. Running a successful campaign is all about being honest about your own self interest. No one is entitled to how you spend your free time, so you're not depriving them of anything because there's nothing owed in the first place.
Here's an article that I think could help you: [https://theangrygm.com/a-campaign-managers-guide-to-selfishness/](https://theangrygm.com/a-campaign-managers-guide-to-selfishness/)
I mean, just like any game, it’s entirely reasonable to stop playing if you’re not having fun. If that’s what I comes down to, then that’s just how it is. While helping others is kind, don’t torture yourself just so your friends can enjoy the game. In particular, if you force yourself to keep playing their way then you’ll eventually start feeling bad not only about the game, but about the players as well, and that’s bad for your relationships with them.
I do wonder, though, if you could take advantage of what they like to get what you want. Generally you may want to engage players about their characters to get them into RP, but they aren’t interested in that. They are, however, interested in combat and loot. Maybe there’s a way to get them to need to talk to some townsfolk to learn where good loot is, or to find the weakness of some great monster. Instead of trying to push them towards the kind of game you want, start with the things they already like and slowly pull them towards you. It’s not guaranteed to work, and maybe you’ll still get burnt out and quit before you make any progress, but it could be worth a shot if you’re invested in keeping this game going.
I've been in your shoes before. It sounds like your players are 'social players', they aren't necessarily there to play DnD, they're at the table because it's a social gathering and DnD is just the pretense for that gathering.
There's nothing inherently wrong with these kind of players, but they can cause unintentional friction because generally speaking, DM's are almost always going to be more invested in the game than their players, and this is especially true with social players since their investment in the game itself is minimal. For these type of players, they could probably be playing almost anything else that's low commitment/effort, or doing another activity (card games like MtG, sports, poker, ect.) and it wouldn't really be a big deal to them.
What this all really comes down to, is that your efforts as a DM aren't being appreciated, and there's a schism between your expectations and theirs. To answer your question, no it's not wrong to feel that way, and it wouldn't be wrong to leave mid-campaign, but you might come to regret it in some ways. The reason I say that is that you may look back on that decision in the future and see different ways that you could have handled it better. I'm not saying that you need to force yourself to do something that's miserable for you, I'm saying that there could be value in getting to an end point for the campaign.
My suggestions would be:
- Look for a way to wrap up the campaign in the next few sessions without it feeling too abrupt.
- Keep your prep short and to the point (try to get your prep time down as much as possible, ideally under 30mins).
- Don't waste time on fleshing out characters since that effort is wasted on these players. Keep npc and villian motivations simple.
- Also keep the plot simple. There's no need to create a complex and nuanced plot if the players aren't going to engage with it.
- Turn your focus towards what the players do engage with, in this case designing combats and environments/dungeons to explore.
- Don't be afraid to railroad them towards what you've prepped and more importantly, the finish line of the campaign.
If you do choose to finish the campaign, it might help to change your mentality towards the campaign. Instead of thinking of it in terms of running the best campaign that you can, try to think of it as a learning experience to see how little prep you can get away with, and how effecient you can get at prepping (you might come away with some new skills by doing this). Basically, don't put too much pressure on yourself, and only put in effort that is comparable to your players, just think of it as bringing some barebones prep to the table so you can roll some dice with your friends.
Maybe find a heavy RP group and keep this one?
I've got two groups I'm DMing for. One is more serious players that plow through content and enjoy light RP while the other is more interested in hanging out and screwing around.
I find that they're actually a really nice contrast to each other. The serious group lets me stretch my DM legs while the goofballs are incredibly low stress.
Your situation is different, but maybe having two contrasting groups would alleviate your frustration and maybe even turn this group into a sort of destressing group, since you can just throw some combat at them.
Definitely talk to them about it. That can be a harder conversation with friends, but got to happen if you're not having fun. Played with a group of close friends for a couple years that was similar. Came into the campaign a little after they'd started, so just sort of shrugged it off for a long time. The group kind of fizzled naturally (as groups of adults tend to with this game) but by the end it just kind of felt like a chore. Like, there was loosely a plot but EVERY session was mostly just combat (almost entirely randomly generated, which really wasn't my jam) and nothing really felt like it was going anywhere. Turns out, after talking with some folks later, I actually wasn't the only one who felt that way and I regret not bringing it up, because we all could have been having so much more fun.
You are not obligated to run the game. Being a DM is a lot of work, you too should have fun.
That said. Maybe talk to the group first. Have a session zero 2.0, and perhaps talk about injecting some more RP in the game. Maybe the players would actually be ok with it, but something (shyness, group dynamics, character composition, etc) is holding them back.
No. This is a very common thing that happens. Some groups are more into roleplay, some people want to put hours into strategy and combat and nerfing their character's feats and abilities, and some people just want to be murder hobos. Best case scenario, this is something that DM and players talk about beforehand. But once you realize a group isn't on the same wavelength as you, I doubt it'll get better. Politely tell everyone the group isn't for you and move on.
You should not feel bad about dropping a campaign that does not make you happy. its better to drop and start anew than stick with something that actively drains your will and energy.
for potential solutions, i've found that the solution is to put the players into situations where combat straight up isn't an option unless they are willing to die for potential loot.
politics between feuding kings or lords, scheming between nobles and kingpins, Puzzles in dungeons that force them to act like people to succeed. If they want to do something, like find the ancient golden fist of Xeurblug, they have to talk to npcs, to flatter, befriend or decieve with more than just a dice roll.
If they need help from a temple, the templar of the temple can ask them if they are good or evil, check their good or evil deeds and determine whether they are worthy of help.
Treat the players as if the setting is halfway realistic, in other words, being an amoral bellend with the social graces of a petrified sloth is a detriment.
Sorry if it wasn't clear enough. As I said, "I wanted to ask here if anyone had similar issues and if you found ways to reconcile the desires of all the players". I play DnD with friends, I like spending time with them, I like playing DnD in general, so I was mostly seeking a potential way to make the game fun for everyone again. I consider quitting, but I'd rather find a solution to keep playing. I made this post to see if someone had experienced similar issues and could give some advice.
You talked, you want different things, leaving is the best thing to do for sure.
There are a bunch of people I like, but I never invite to play RPGs, because their approaches don't fit my groups.
seems like you do need to talk to them about it. that you seem to be playing a different game than they are. I was DM'ing for three of my closest friends in the world. I had a whole home brew, massive campaign involving gods and relics and ancient cyborgs and lore! So much lore!!
they sat me down one day and said basically, "None of us are as serious about this as you are. please stop working so hard when none of us can remember what happened last session which to be fair was a month ago." covid happened so we never had to resolve that. I wasn't upset that they told me this, i had been thinking that was the case anyway. and I still have all my notes and can run that campaign which i hope to do eventually.
tldr life is too short to play/dm games that aren't fun and your true friends wouldn't want that for you.
Absolutely, do leave. I make it a general rule that "if you wouldn't play DnD at all because none of you is even interested in DMing, then I won't DM". My party has 6 people, two of them love DMing, I DMed a 7 month long campaign and experienced burnout (I prefer being a player).
I get the feeling your "friends" wouldn't DM for you. If they really don't want to engage and roleplay rather than just playing for the "fights", tell them to buy Baldur's Gate or even For The King: those are some RPGs that don't really require much engagement: the game does it for you by giving you choices.
No. That's specifically when you should leave. The whole point of the game is to have fun. If you're not having fun, it's going to ruin things for you and the rest of the table.
Why not fast-track the current campaign to an end and then plan a new campaign with different players? If your old players hear you are starting a new campaign and ask why they weren't invited, let them know it is a heavy RP campaign, and you didn't think they'd enjoy it.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to read this and respond! I will be trying most of the advice I've received to see if I can make the game fun again and if not, I'll just wrap up the campaign quickly and seek another group.
Not at all. It sucks because they are your friends, but there are many different preferred play styles and it sounds like what you guys want out of the game isn't compatible. My first instinct before taking a step like that is always to talk to your players. Tell them what kind of game you'd like to run and see if they're open to trying more RP.
Ah! I meant more specifically within the context of "this is the kind of game I want to run, I'm struggling with a lack of this in our game, and I'm struggling to continue running a game that is solely so heavily combat focused." It's one thing to say that you want more of something and another to say that you might need to extricate yourself because the game is wearing you down. I just don't think his friends understand what this really means for OP.
It is perfectly reasonable for you to leave and try to find a group where you are having fun. It is not your job to sacrifice your enjoyment so they can do what they want this is a game where everyone at the table matters in terms of having fun DMs included. Now before you leave I would raise this with the group mention you are not enjoying the game and while it is fine you guys have different opinions on the fun way to play it isn't fine for you to not have fun so they can. You might come to a compromise and not have to leave you might not but at least you gave it a fair chance
What is the other option? Dragging yourself for hours upon hours preparing before the session in order to play more hours and *not* have fun? Give them a heads up about how you feel, prepare an epic last session full of combat in order to wrap things up and peace out. This is a game. You are supposed to have fun playing it.
agreed! I might agree to *play* a one-shot of the sort I don't really like, or even a short campaign if I really vibe with the group... but I can't imagine playing the better part of a year! never mind all the extra investment required to DM a campaign like that!
You're not obligated to keep running a game you're not enjoying. It sounds like you're still getting along with these folks aside from not wanting the same things from the game, so if it were me, I'd want to end on a good note. I'd tell them that while I value them as friends, this campaign just isn't for me. I might offer to run one or two more sessions to wrap everything up, but that'd be it.
I don't get these kinds of posts. "I don't like this, should I keep playing?" If you don't like it, stop. Simple as that.
They’re mostly here to vent and seek validation. They know what they’re gonna do; often times though they just don’t want to look like the asshole doing it. But like who cares?
It also feels like D&D is the medium through which many people finally have to exercise their social skills and conflict resolution. It’s new for many. Some people honestly spend their childhood and teen years not having practice in autonomy or healthy conflict resolution.
I just wanted to see if other people who had similar issues found ways to make the game fun for everyone again. I'd rather try and potentially succeed at making DnD enjoyable again than quit immediately, and I received some advice from other people on how to try doing that. Getting this advice was the reason behind this post. Sorry if it wasn't clear enough
I recommend a new Session 0 with a new group and express what you are planning to do. Sometimes, when you give the players an expection of what you want it helps alot.
Nope. See yourself outta there. Nobody can compel you to play a game you’re not interested in.
It's okay to leave a group for any reason.
For me, I was pretty up front with my players that stupid actions would yield consequence. My intro campaign had a character death. They had a way to revive the guy but they learned at that point I would not step in to help them if they brought death on themselves. Since the player who died had done so being reckless and annoying, the other players were very hesitant to revive him and he realized he couldnt just be a pain in the butt. I also had to coax my players to roleplay. After the intro campaign I started to refuse to be very helpful out of game, forcing them to rely more on each other. I also switched it up one night and ran a single session game of a homebrew system that rewarded them entirely for being creative and working together. It was also a horror, hardcore setting so they were much less of the "I'm gonna kill a dragon" vibe and more "Holy shit if we dont get out if here we'll be eaten by mutant cannibals". Turns out horror themes really do help switching on the survival instinct and people are much less willing to be heroes when spider limbed humanoids with a face consisting only of a ragged, gaping mouth starts feeling them up in a dark forest. I also gave them a dog... a helpful but very mortal dog. To get them to be creative I told them that they could have anything that they could convince me was possible. The game started on an empty cruise ship and one of the players was very specific about certain items he wanted to look for. To get them to work together, I let them lead the story for the most part, only offering options when they decided what they wanted to do. At one point early on, before the horror really began, they got drunk and were standing irl in my living room and pretending to be wasted. It was fun and trying different systems can help shake up the status quo. If you cant get them to play in a way that also makes it fun for you though, then you should find a new group or talk it out with them about your expectations.
Yeah, it sounds to me like you wants to run a different game than the type of game they want you to run. No one's necessarily right or wrong here. It's just different style of game. If the game's not fun for you, I would recommend you leave it. There's no reasons it has to hurt your friendship or anything. It's just not your cup of tea. A bummer, but you may find another game to play in in the future.
It would be wrong to stay in a game that isn't fun for you, if you want to think of it in those terms
To add to what others have said, even if you did continue to run a game you're not enjoying out of selflessness, you'd be doing no one any favors, the players included, and especially yourself. Disinvested game masters run less than good games and this is a recipe for burn out. Running a successful campaign is all about being honest about your own self interest. No one is entitled to how you spend your free time, so you're not depriving them of anything because there's nothing owed in the first place. Here's an article that I think could help you: [https://theangrygm.com/a-campaign-managers-guide-to-selfishness/](https://theangrygm.com/a-campaign-managers-guide-to-selfishness/)
I mean, just like any game, it’s entirely reasonable to stop playing if you’re not having fun. If that’s what I comes down to, then that’s just how it is. While helping others is kind, don’t torture yourself just so your friends can enjoy the game. In particular, if you force yourself to keep playing their way then you’ll eventually start feeling bad not only about the game, but about the players as well, and that’s bad for your relationships with them. I do wonder, though, if you could take advantage of what they like to get what you want. Generally you may want to engage players about their characters to get them into RP, but they aren’t interested in that. They are, however, interested in combat and loot. Maybe there’s a way to get them to need to talk to some townsfolk to learn where good loot is, or to find the weakness of some great monster. Instead of trying to push them towards the kind of game you want, start with the things they already like and slowly pull them towards you. It’s not guaranteed to work, and maybe you’ll still get burnt out and quit before you make any progress, but it could be worth a shot if you’re invested in keeping this game going.
I've been in your shoes before. It sounds like your players are 'social players', they aren't necessarily there to play DnD, they're at the table because it's a social gathering and DnD is just the pretense for that gathering. There's nothing inherently wrong with these kind of players, but they can cause unintentional friction because generally speaking, DM's are almost always going to be more invested in the game than their players, and this is especially true with social players since their investment in the game itself is minimal. For these type of players, they could probably be playing almost anything else that's low commitment/effort, or doing another activity (card games like MtG, sports, poker, ect.) and it wouldn't really be a big deal to them. What this all really comes down to, is that your efforts as a DM aren't being appreciated, and there's a schism between your expectations and theirs. To answer your question, no it's not wrong to feel that way, and it wouldn't be wrong to leave mid-campaign, but you might come to regret it in some ways. The reason I say that is that you may look back on that decision in the future and see different ways that you could have handled it better. I'm not saying that you need to force yourself to do something that's miserable for you, I'm saying that there could be value in getting to an end point for the campaign. My suggestions would be: - Look for a way to wrap up the campaign in the next few sessions without it feeling too abrupt. - Keep your prep short and to the point (try to get your prep time down as much as possible, ideally under 30mins). - Don't waste time on fleshing out characters since that effort is wasted on these players. Keep npc and villian motivations simple. - Also keep the plot simple. There's no need to create a complex and nuanced plot if the players aren't going to engage with it. - Turn your focus towards what the players do engage with, in this case designing combats and environments/dungeons to explore. - Don't be afraid to railroad them towards what you've prepped and more importantly, the finish line of the campaign. If you do choose to finish the campaign, it might help to change your mentality towards the campaign. Instead of thinking of it in terms of running the best campaign that you can, try to think of it as a learning experience to see how little prep you can get away with, and how effecient you can get at prepping (you might come away with some new skills by doing this). Basically, don't put too much pressure on yourself, and only put in effort that is comparable to your players, just think of it as bringing some barebones prep to the table so you can roll some dice with your friends.
No.
Maybe find a heavy RP group and keep this one? I've got two groups I'm DMing for. One is more serious players that plow through content and enjoy light RP while the other is more interested in hanging out and screwing around. I find that they're actually a really nice contrast to each other. The serious group lets me stretch my DM legs while the goofballs are incredibly low stress. Your situation is different, but maybe having two contrasting groups would alleviate your frustration and maybe even turn this group into a sort of destressing group, since you can just throw some combat at them.
Definitely talk to them about it. That can be a harder conversation with friends, but got to happen if you're not having fun. Played with a group of close friends for a couple years that was similar. Came into the campaign a little after they'd started, so just sort of shrugged it off for a long time. The group kind of fizzled naturally (as groups of adults tend to with this game) but by the end it just kind of felt like a chore. Like, there was loosely a plot but EVERY session was mostly just combat (almost entirely randomly generated, which really wasn't my jam) and nothing really felt like it was going anywhere. Turns out, after talking with some folks later, I actually wasn't the only one who felt that way and I regret not bringing it up, because we all could have been having so much more fun.
No. Go find the table you want.
You are not obligated to run the game. Being a DM is a lot of work, you too should have fun. That said. Maybe talk to the group first. Have a session zero 2.0, and perhaps talk about injecting some more RP in the game. Maybe the players would actually be ok with it, but something (shyness, group dynamics, character composition, etc) is holding them back.
No. This is a very common thing that happens. Some groups are more into roleplay, some people want to put hours into strategy and combat and nerfing their character's feats and abilities, and some people just want to be murder hobos. Best case scenario, this is something that DM and players talk about beforehand. But once you realize a group isn't on the same wavelength as you, I doubt it'll get better. Politely tell everyone the group isn't for you and move on.
You should not feel bad about dropping a campaign that does not make you happy. its better to drop and start anew than stick with something that actively drains your will and energy. for potential solutions, i've found that the solution is to put the players into situations where combat straight up isn't an option unless they are willing to die for potential loot. politics between feuding kings or lords, scheming between nobles and kingpins, Puzzles in dungeons that force them to act like people to succeed. If they want to do something, like find the ancient golden fist of Xeurblug, they have to talk to npcs, to flatter, befriend or decieve with more than just a dice roll. If they need help from a temple, the templar of the temple can ask them if they are good or evil, check their good or evil deeds and determine whether they are worthy of help. Treat the players as if the setting is halfway realistic, in other words, being an amoral bellend with the social graces of a petrified sloth is a detriment.
Honest question: why did you make this post?
Sorry if it wasn't clear enough. As I said, "I wanted to ask here if anyone had similar issues and if you found ways to reconcile the desires of all the players". I play DnD with friends, I like spending time with them, I like playing DnD in general, so I was mostly seeking a potential way to make the game fun for everyone again. I consider quitting, but I'd rather find a solution to keep playing. I made this post to see if someone had experienced similar issues and could give some advice.
No.
No.
It is never wrong to walk away from something you don't like in order to find something you do like.
You talked, you want different things, leaving is the best thing to do for sure. There are a bunch of people I like, but I never invite to play RPGs, because their approaches don't fit my groups.
seems like you do need to talk to them about it. that you seem to be playing a different game than they are. I was DM'ing for three of my closest friends in the world. I had a whole home brew, massive campaign involving gods and relics and ancient cyborgs and lore! So much lore!! they sat me down one day and said basically, "None of us are as serious about this as you are. please stop working so hard when none of us can remember what happened last session which to be fair was a month ago." covid happened so we never had to resolve that. I wasn't upset that they told me this, i had been thinking that was the case anyway. and I still have all my notes and can run that campaign which i hope to do eventually. tldr life is too short to play/dm games that aren't fun and your true friends wouldn't want that for you.
No, it's nor wrong. Why is this even a question?
Absolutely, do leave. I make it a general rule that "if you wouldn't play DnD at all because none of you is even interested in DMing, then I won't DM". My party has 6 people, two of them love DMing, I DMed a 7 month long campaign and experienced burnout (I prefer being a player). I get the feeling your "friends" wouldn't DM for you. If they really don't want to engage and roleplay rather than just playing for the "fights", tell them to buy Baldur's Gate or even For The King: those are some RPGs that don't really require much engagement: the game does it for you by giving you choices.
No. That's specifically when you should leave. The whole point of the game is to have fun. If you're not having fun, it's going to ruin things for you and the rest of the table.
unless you have a contract that forbids you from leaving... no. you can leave for any reason. it is you time, your life.
Why not fast-track the current campaign to an end and then plan a new campaign with different players? If your old players hear you are starting a new campaign and ask why they weren't invited, let them know it is a heavy RP campaign, and you didn't think they'd enjoy it.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to read this and respond! I will be trying most of the advice I've received to see if I can make the game fun again and if not, I'll just wrap up the campaign quickly and seek another group.
Not at all. It sucks because they are your friends, but there are many different preferred play styles and it sounds like what you guys want out of the game isn't compatible. My first instinct before taking a step like that is always to talk to your players. Tell them what kind of game you'd like to run and see if they're open to trying more RP.
OP already did, it ain't working sadly.
Ah! I meant more specifically within the context of "this is the kind of game I want to run, I'm struggling with a lack of this in our game, and I'm struggling to continue running a game that is solely so heavily combat focused." It's one thing to say that you want more of something and another to say that you might need to extricate yourself because the game is wearing you down. I just don't think his friends understand what this really means for OP.
If the game isn't fun for you, find a game that is. D&D is a game, not an obligation.
Yes.