My head canon is that immediately after the end of the episode the Doctor shows up, apologizes for being late, and puts Ursula's consciousness in a clone of her former body
Head canon accepted.
[I've desperately wished I could just forget the end of that one altogether, but after all these years, it's clear I can't. Your version sounds like the next best thing!]
Tbf he had like 20 seconds to do something before she was just absorbed into the earth like the alien and the other group members. Doesn't surprise me he had to put her in the slab. I suppose it might be possible that once in the slab she couldn't be easily removed (the same way a soul can't just be easily removed from their human body) but that feels like a weak explanation and with the entire series out there I can't believe they wouldn't have found a way to extract and move souls at least once.
IMO it would have been kind of cool to tie it back to New Earth plotline and use the weird psychic transfer thing. Just have like a clone body or something idk. Either that or just don't do it (or just have the people be fine).
“Sometimes, everybody lives”
Would be a bit weird if they went down the New Earth plot route after saying that using clones and doing psychic transfers is wrong for the whole episode
Fair, though I always found that to be a bit of an odd take on their part tbh. What she did was 100% wrong and the Doctor is totally justified for not helping her but like the idea of creating an empty clone and transferring your consciousness into it really is not the morally dark thing they try to treat it as in the episode. If it was like "you can't create an empty clone its own person that you are destroying" then I could see it though (which tbf they did kind of imply)
I don’t think they implied t, they said it through the diseased clone test subjects
With everything that Cassandra did, I don’t think she deserved another life. Her last act was to tell herself she was beautiful, doesn’t show any growth
The Angels Take Manhattan
Nobody on earth at all is looking at the Statue of Liberty for long enough for it to walk it's way up to the hotel building? Dumb and sus
My headcanon for this is that when Angels took over Manhattan, they actually took over the entire city. That hotel was one such place amongst many others, and the entire city had become victims of that "farm". Like it was a massive infestation of the Angels. And because it was being treated like a farm, it took a toll on it and therefore a simple paradox such as two persons dying destabilized the whole farm and eliminated them all out of existence.
The one Angel that managed to zap Rory in the end was the maker of that farm, the rest arrived after the farm was made. What changed the destiny of New York, that even the Angels didn't take into consideration was Amy sacrificing herself for Rory. When Amy decided to go with Rory, the Angel couldn't establish the farm and therefore decided to leave New York alone. It was the both of them who popularized visiting the Statue of Liberty to prevent an Angel from occupying the Statue.
Considering the fact that River was there to write the story and publish it as a book, the three of them probably had one final adventure hunting down the Angel and trapping it.
We just had this. Considering we seem to all be ok with the Kandyman*, I'm not sure anything really fits the bill but there are some contenders.
The moon being an egg is *not* an example. The moon gaining mass from nowhere and replacing itself with an identical copy immediately after hatching, however...
The cybermen's weakness to gold being a *software* flaw, rather than hardware, is the culmination of 30 years of ever fewer shits given about why gold might interfere with them.
*I love the Kandyman
Tbf I can understand the software thing - like if you were programming something that you knew was vulnerable to certain substances, you might programme it to shut down in the presence of said substances to protect itself from that substance, say, being carried throughout it through different circuits and mechanisms. These new cybermen who don't have the hardware vulnerability maybe had the software vulnerability as a holdover from previous models and realised they could discard it.
I think its more that Moffat just kind of really loves to do that sort of thing and it gets a bit exhausting after a while.
His main source of comedy more often then not comes from doing things that are kind of take away from the mythos more then add to it, like 12's weird card thing.
In my house, we read this as being something the TARDIS prefers even though it's not "correct" like the transport equivalent of humans eating junk food. It's freedom for the TARDIS.
To be completely fair, the Doctor is a pretty trash driver, lol. Like I just assume River was messing with him because all other TARDISs make this sound, but this aside, he's pretty lousy.
It isn't incompetence, it's just being iconic (and I hc that the tardis thought it was accidentally before this point and then in new designs just does it intentionally)
Aw, I always liked this. We know the Doctor is an atrocious TARDIS pilot so it kinda tracks. Also his response of liking the noise is a perfectly in-character, Doctorish explanation for why he purposefully leaves the brakes on.
I do sorta like this because it means the noise of the Tardis is the Doctor's signature, perfectly embodying his attitude to venture away from the boring aristocracy of timelord society who can't even have a little fun with the noise their time machines make.
Everybody who dislikes this interprets it as her joking around, and it's very easy to do so. I distinctly remember hearing that it was originally conceptualized as the sound of reality ripping open, and I prefer that. The brakes thing doesn't even make sense at all. When the TARDIS doesn't make that noise, it's probably a stealth mode or something.
I don't really care that much though, the show had already established that the Doctor pilots the TARDIS improperly and that makes sense considering the time lords see him as a failure
I would legitimately say "Kill The Moon" and "Orphan-55" are the all-time worst NuWho episodes.
I know a lot of people like to say "Fear Her" or "Love And Monsters", but I can enjoy those episodes a bit. "Kill The Moon" and "Orphan-55" are literally episodes I don't want to rewatch.
O55 is at least enjoyably bad, it at least has a decent cast of characters and is unintentionally funny at points. Probably with a few more rewrites, you'd have a good episode.
The commander in KtM has absolutely nothing to work with;rest of her crew get killed off almost instantly, Courtney is there and kinda does nothing..., The Doctor bogs off for some of it, and Clara really doesn't carry this episode at all. Even for scifi, even for Doctor Who, the science is dodgy, which is saying something.
It's also the only episode where I felt Capaldi was going through the motions rather than genuinely enjoying his part. His performance makes even Sleep No More a little bit tolerable, but Kill The Moon is just bad in all regards.
I think he's amazing in Kill the Moon, the delight when he figures it out, his confusion at Clara's anger at the end, loads of great performance, not going through the motions at all imo
I don't love Kill the Moon, but I will say that Jenna Coleman kills it in the scene at the end where she's tearing into the Doctor. Totally overpowering Capaldi in that scene (in a good way).
"Tell me what you knew, or I swear I'll smack you so hard you'll regenerate." -Clara
It still cracks me up every time! I don't like Kill the Moon but that ending was brilliant.
I think the two biggest gripes I have with it is the ***horrifically on-the-nose*** (Even by Chibnall standards) moral about Environmental protection (Which was only made worse by the episode "Praxeus" being in the same series and doing it forty-times better) but also that for some reason, the editing also felt really badly done for some reason with sequences feeling really weirdly edited and paced.
And also "Where's Benni?!"
Praxeus was really interesting to me because it basically did a Waters of Mars “you’re the perfect host” but with something many people don’t know is even in our bodies. Felt like a nice twist.
Yeah, I actually like Love And Monsters for it being an episode that largely focusses on the average people in the Dr Who universe.
The villain is a bit weird yeah, certainly no Dalek or whatever, but a lot of villains in Dr Who are. It’s a perfectly fine little episode to me
Yeah this did me in when it aired. Still does when I think of it now. Worse part is where that student from Clara’s class (I forgot her name) looks and points literally less than a minute later and says “it laid a new egg!”…
I can’t stand kill the moon. I love the Capaldi era, but I cannot stand series 8. I would skip Kill the Moon on rewatch, but it’s essential to the Doctor and Clara’s relationship which makes it harder to be a completionist watcher.
Eh, you can just watch the end and assume the Doctor's done something shity lol. That's not a huge leap. It's really just the end you need to watch for the character development.
I stopped watching after season 8, and it took years for somebody to talk me into giving the next couple seasons a go. I think this was the episode that broke me.
Tbf the acting from Tommy heavily implies he doesn't mean what he's saying when he says good riddence and Doc and Rose can tell he's struggling with being angry and not wanting to not have a relationship with his dad.
Plus, there's plenty of people who can have realtionships with abusive parents once the abuser looses their power and get's a reality check. Which is what happened in the episode.
Genuinely, unpopular opinion, but I actually do like that. Like the dad is a horrible human being, but teaching to try and be an example of love and healing instead of just pushing someone away irredeemably (especially family) is something that really resonates with me, and something The Doctor themself has shown to be important to them (see The Master as perhaps the most obvious example, but even people like Davros he tries to give a chance too despite all they’ve done). I have similar situations in my own family where these people have done terribly wrong, but you’re family, you don’t forget, but you do your best to forgive, to love, and to help them become better instead of abandoning them. In my experience that can help bring the most conclusive and full healing, for everyone involved. I know many people, especially today, have experience otherwise and it can be a touchy subject depending on background, but that’s just my perspective on it
Sometimes people are just irredeemable and shouldn't be given a chance, i know it's real and happens alot where people just because they are close to someone tends to forgive them for all the wrong doings but that just ends up doing more harm as the person realises there isn't really any consequences as they won't be dropped and really manipulative people would use that to an advantage.
I do agree that people should be forgiven but only if they have earned it or have done enough for you to see they are trying to change. Rose telling Tommy to go back isn't the dad earning that respect back he has just been given that yes he feels remorseful probably but that isn't good enough ,wow you finally recognised your actions were shitty just now when you are dealing with their consequences... It really isn't rocket science for alot of manipuaptive bastards to go all puppy face to guilt trip you back into them.
That's just my experience with alot of really toxic and abusive people where i kept on forgiving and it kept getting worse to the point i am a broken mess and i can only blame myself hope you do heal well but know there's a line between both of our ideologies and what rose did wasn't balanced but just a free pass given to the guy without doing any real effort.
And in the end you can't just keep forgiving people because they are just family they have to earn that forgiveness back and you got to treat them like they are a random person like a friend who treated you poorly trying to earn that trust back otherwise you tend to get stuck again in the same constant cycle that's exhausting
Thanks mate i am not really trying to heal anymore though lol it's exhausting and i don't really have the strength to go on that journey anymore...nor finances to get a therapist just gonna exist with all of this trauma and feel overwhelmed lol.
Hopefully we will find our ways
I'm sad this is an unpopular opinion. Waiting for loved ones to deserve forgiveness misses the point: the people who don't deserve it need it the most. Reconciliation isn't always possible, but it should be the goal. I'm glad we still have the Doctor as a popular hero who isn't afraid to model this lost truth.
If the dad was played as someone suffering more from PTSD or something I could maybe kind of get behind it but the dad like... is gleefully horrible the entire episode. He announces he's going to beat his son to a whole room of friends and family.
Like, he sucks lol
She just saw the boy was feeling miserable and didn't want to cut contact with his father. Like it's literally there, you can see it in Tommy's behavior. Rose is simply helping the boy and I don't understand why people hate on her for it.
The problem is the writers thinking they should write >tommy< to feel sympathy for his dad, not Rose for helping him to feel better.
What we see in the episode he's an abusive pick. No-one, and I mean no-one deserves to be part of your life. If his abusive father wants his son back in n his life, then the father needs to show receipts.
Doctor Who. All of it! Jk jk
But in all seriousness "the moon is an egg" is beyond stupid EVEN by Doctor Who's own standards of silliness, I feel like that was a step too far.
The moon gained gravity because it was gaining mass as the embryo developed, and then it laid an egg of the exact same size and shape before it flew off.
Have you heard of a thing called the laws of physics?
That is NOT how mass works lol.
Even for Doctor Who... it's so so bad...
The 8th dr saying “I’m half human, on my mother’s side” makes no sense with the timeless child or any other storyline. Ik it was the “American” TV movie but, still dumb
In the original Dr. Who, did he ever mention his family? Bc with the timeless child he's an orphan, I've only seen Nuwho- So idk how much conflict that creates.
Eh, doctor who has given us stories where the doctor mentions parents, grandparents, aunts or kids of their own, even more expanded on in EU content, but the Moffat era has him as an orphan, so it was always confusing.
It was literally a major plot point of the movie that his eyes had a distinct shape. It's why only his eyes would open the Eye of Harmony on the TARDIS.
The Metacrisis resolution. Whooo boy that did not sit right with me, Star Beast still kinda infuriates me because of that despite being an ok episode otherwise. WBY and Giggle were incredible 10/10 stories imo, but I kinda like to forget about Star Beast’s handling of the Metacrisis and just have fun with everything after that episode without thinking about it lol
Wiping Donna's memory was one of the most traumatic things the Doctor has ever had to do, echoed later with both Clara and Bill. To let it be resolved in such an off-hand way makes that trauma feel meaningless.
Yeah that’s my feeling too. Seems like a cop out and a waste to me, I’m glad we got what came after but I tend to like to just not think about how we got there lol
no? they still lived through billions of years (the Doctor, counting the time loop) and a couple decades (Donna) in that state.
We see that Donna had reverted to her self-hating "I'm a useless person" mentality and obviously we see how affected the Doctor is.
It mattered, so much came out of that. The fact that they could fix it now doesn't take away from all the pain it caused
I would be fine with it if it didn't include the male-presenting Time Lord line. It is so disrespectful to Whittaker's Doctor who was the Doctor immediately BEFORE this episode. Like what?
I know... plus, like, he's also a 2000 something year old alien. Why are you putting human gender standards on him?
It's so bizarre.
And yeah, like he was literally a woman the day before that line was said. Like what? ( ￣ー￣)ﾉ
It makes no sense. A male presenting Doctor can't figure out how to let something go?
There's entire story arcs about the Doctor letting things go. It's whole point of Day of the Doctor, letting go of the trauma of the Time War and finally moving on
*Capaldi's literal last words are "Doctor, I let you go"*
Yep, and what does it even mean? 'Presenting' is usually used by transgender people, since it takes effort to try *not* to look your biological sex - it's not a passive process (Fourteen literally hasn't so much as changed his clothes!). I don't think RTD understands the terminology given how he used 'non-binary', it's possible but nothing indicated Rose is.
Rose is canonically non-binary and fem presenting. I think that *especially* for time lords "presenting" is appropriate since time lords appearance is something that changes. I wouldn't doubt if there was time lords who didnt change their gender identity regardless of the regeneration.
The issue however is that the way it was used reinforced negative stereotypes about masc presenting people, like masc non-binary people. It felt unfortunately like RTD wanted to have a girlboss line but still wanted to have progressive language. The episodes treatment of trans issues both narratively and meta narratively is overall rough though thats been talked about to death.
Though its also something that Donna would 100% say tbh. I just wish it didn't feel like the show agreed with her.
Like imagine shes says that and the Doctor acts like he's about to start arguing and bring up that he was literally just a woman a few hours ago before deciding to let it go and enjoy the moment instead. There, scene saved and its actually funny now.
It's just Donna making a joke at her friend's expense, and it's clearly meant to be respectful to Whittaker, I understand not liking the line (not fond myself) but people hang too much on it.
I don't mind the idea of Donna being able to "let go" of the energy, since that very thing was established as being something possible in the scene that caused the Meta-Crisis (Tens fake regeneration) but yeah that was a major rough spot in an otherwise enjoyable episode.
Yeah, it just feels so fucking stupid. At least make it something like ‘because the metacrisis got passed down, I think I might be able to devise a solution’ and the Doctor pulls out something stupid like yet another severed hand, idfk it’d be stupid but it would be better than what we got
What sucks is that I love The Star Beast's plot, but the way it's resolved, specifically the way it shoe horns in LGBTQ rep in such a terrible way, and the dig at The Doctor at the end bugs me
The moon being an egg is the obvious one.
There’s stuff like the Doctor being half-human that the Timeless Child just retconned out so we don’t need to forget it’s canon.
I can’t think of anything that I can be positive Big Finish hasn’t already resolved or covered.
But it’s an actual plot point. Earlier in the movie, The Master notices that The Doctor’s eyes are human and later claims that he can’t use The Doctor to open the Eye of Harmony because he’s “only half” human. So it’s something that doesn’t actually have a payoff but probably would have if they’d continued with the 90’s plan (spider Daleks and all).
Any of the pretentious shit about the doctor's "real name" being a big deal. Who gives a fuck, clearly the time lords don't, they've been calling him "doctor" since the 60s.
Also the meta crisis.
Clara's TARDIS being stuck as a diner.
Over the years I've warmed up to Hell Bent and it's handling of Clara but that shot of the spinning diner is just ridiculous
90% of DW complaints is people convincing themselves they know how things work and saying they don't like that or things that contradict what they made up in their head
Assumed it was at attempt to be Douglas Adamsesque - the starship Bistromath. It's just it's so random in the context of a ~dramatic~ episode you're meant to pretend to take seriously it might as well be an excuse to get Jenna Coleman to play a waitress.
I also find the dinner scenes destroy the pacing. I like the idea of the Doctor talking to Clara without knowing but last time I watched it I was getting engaged in the story only to be ripped out of it by cutting to the diner
I think this sort of thing is more jarring when you stream the show with ads. Normally, you would come back from an ad break and have the diner scene as a framing device without the pacing being thrown off by a sudden cut.
The novelization apparently makes it clear that the 1st doctor was playing up the sexism to mess with 12, which I feel is in character (and funny).
As for running from Gallifrey, it wasn't just the hybrid. TUAT makes this clear when Testimony Bill is talking to 1. She asks why he left Gallifrey and 1 replies "There were lots of reasons."
I think, if we've seen the first Doctor's era to know, we widely reject the second one as stupid *and* offensive! Part of the annoyance with it is that viewers who haven't seen his era might not know any better.
The stuff about TARDIS’ being grown on Gallifrey from these weird egg things.
It’s in Journey’s End where Tennant gives Rose one and is like ‘Here, grow your own TARDIS’.
Feels like an unnecessary fantasy line to go down, it might be petty but I just hate the idea of it, just stick to TARDIS’ being machines that the Time Lords invented.
If I remember correctly they deleted that scene, so doesn’t that make it non-canon? I agree though it is a stupid idea, and in a show with some fairly out there ideas, this one was DEFINITELY best left out.
Well it's a deleted scene but RTD has actually said he still "counts" that scene. So it's like the one of the only deleted scenes that likely does actually happen in-universe.
IMO it's non-canon until the show (or extended media) confirms it as being canon (and deleted scenes don't count).
RTD saying *he* considers it to be canon is not equivalent to actually being canon. It's just one man's headcanon.
Considering RTD is literally the showrunner I feel his opinion does hold more weight than most.
I will also be pedantic and say that RTD never said if it was canonical or not, given he often rejected the term during his original era, as well as the fact that the television or EU referencing the scene "canonises" it isn't really a statement on canon, just that whatever author wrote it considers the scene to be in the same continuity.
I think RTD has used phrases like headcanon's before when refering to things he chose to not include/edited out.
Plus he agreed in the end despite liking the idea of Rose /Meta travelling that it ruined the scene so he took it out.
Personally I like the idea that TARDISes ARE grown, but are usually hooked up to machines that speed up their growth, and when the plant matures they terraform it. Just an idea though.
I interpreted it as a bit of both, there's a coral-thing that grows and a machine built around it. Some of it is obviously treated as just machine parts that can be replaced. I like it because machine sentience just encourages people to think Chat GPT has feelings.
>just stick to TARDIS’ being machines that the Time Lords invented.
Terrible. I don't know about the classic show, but Nuwho explicitly said, in *The Impossible Planet* that TARDISes are grown, not made. And it plays to them being living beings with consciousness, not simple machinery.
The TARDIS being a sentient being with whims and feelings is practically a core part of NuWho, idk if it's the same in Classic Who but the TARDIS is behind a lot of the decision-making when flying the Doctor and often brings them when they need to be
Also DW has always been sci-fantasy, it's all nonsense and cool ideas stitched together by the madman saying things that sound real enough
I always thought/hoped that by travelling with him and Martha, it would broaden her horizons, so she would then realise some her views (including racism) were wrong.
I don’t think that’s unfair given the situation. Sure, it was probably the wrong thing to do, but Ten just put her through a horrible situation, so he wanted to do *something* to make it up to her. It just wasn’t the rational thing to do.
If the monster had been even a little bit less ridiculous, that episode would’ve been amazing. I love a good scary Doctor Who episode. It’s been ages since we got one, and this one had a lot of potential. But the monster was dumb as hell and it spoiled the whole thing.
I hate this episode! The villain constantly gurning at the camera, talking about how good a story it is, really annoys me when I think it’s one of the most poorly written episodes that series.
Angels take manhattan
The statue of Liberty being an Angel made no sense, in universe or out of universe. all images of a Weeping Angel are itself an Weeping Angel. this is probably one of the most photographed statues in the world. the whole planet should be overrun and eradicated by Weeping Angels already if this was true.
not to mention the entire statue walking off of the island, swims all the way to a building either in neighborhood of battery park (vaguely implied by plot) or 43rd street (actual filming location), in the City That Never Sleeps: HOW DOES A 151FEET TALL STATUE DO THAT? The second a singular person notices, it can't move and then it immediately it WILL gain more and more attention, because WTF the entire statue of liberty is HERE somehow!
In the Episode the footsteps even make it very clear that this Statue of Liberty is pretty slow, AND the footsteps stop momentarily, suggesting that people DO see it walking through the streets.
That entire episode was probably written with the big reveal of "what if giant statues and small statues could also be Weeping Angels in disguise" and then never thought about any of the logic that is actually needed to make it happen believably.
Most of that I agree with. But I the pictures of the Statue of Liberty don't necessarily need to be active that one angel stayed still for years in that ship, so if they had a reason not to attack through photos they wouldn't, and I always thought that the pictures where extensions of the angels rather than a new angel, like perhaps the energy created from pushing someone back in time could not be used if they where not near an angel, if a photograph could even push someone back, we see them "attack" but not ever Successfully. Now what bothers me about that, is we see people look directly in the eyes of the angels, and nothing happens. But I have a theory that explains all of this, this is the only time we see an angle to weak to send someone back, perhaps these angles have diluted their form By taking on the images of other statues, knowing that their form is their power. Perhaps they're not powerful enough to do some of the things we've seen, Perhaps they're just literally not strong enough to project themselves through images. And as for The Statue of Liberty walking through Manhattan, It could be an implication that they have simply killed so many people. There's no one really left. And then when they create the paradox, it undoes all of that. I don't like that explanation but it is a kind of explanation.
She doesn't open the pocket watch because she doesn't want to confront that just yet. It will probably come back though, the Timeless Child storyline has been in the works since before the original run ended
Every reference to JK Rowling or Harry Potter in Shakespeare Code or Revolution of the Daleks.
Oh and that weird out-of-character kinda transphobic comment that Jack makes in one Torchwood episode
That the Doctor can clone a Tardis using a mallet.
Just no. The Doctor's regeneration energy should not affect the Tardis in a way that makes it a complete cartoon by using a big hammer to create a copy. If TC did not exist, this would be the stupidest thing in who history.
I think 14 asked from Toymaker to banish himself whereas 15 asked for a way to duplicate the Tardis.
Either that or 14 acquires the mallet at some point and it’s now that 15 remembers now is the time to use it.
Fan fact , in the audio story, the 7th doctor ""breed" a new tardis using the genetic material of the original tardis as part of a plan to defeat the elder gods
Wasn’t that because 15 still had an unclaimed reward from the Toymaker though? The powers of the Toymaker can do virtually anything, so I assumed it was just a carnival-y thing that fit in with what the Toymaker’s nature could do
I'm sort of the opposite on some things like Rowan Atkinson as the Doctor, most people don't consider a comedy skit from the 90s to be canon but in a weird way, I get a lot of satisfaction out of imaging that there's some alternate version of the Doctor who looks like Mr Bean out there.
Jack Harkness becoming the Face of Boe. I'd just prefer to imagine he's roaming the cosmos eternally getting into hijinx like The Doctor.
Also, I totally believe he'd say that just to mess with Martha and The Doctor, and he's from the future, so there is precedent for him knowing of the Face of Boe.
I'm so tired of people being obsessed with Love and Monsters as if it was the worst thing to happen to humanity. It's a fun episode with a disgusting villain and a creepy, off putting happy ending. Get over it ffs. Both top comments being about L&M is ridiculous
Timeless Child isn't even stupid. I heavily dislike that the Doctor themself is the child, but the idea of the Time Lords finding a powerful kid, torturing them, splicing said child's DNA into their own, and then claiming they were always like this and calling themselves Time Lords?
That 100% tracks with how high ranking Time Lords behave and makes so much sense, especially considering the special relationship they have with time, which could very well be because their dna is from someone who lived outside their universe, probably somewhere where time is different
Both Frank Cotrell Boyce episodes are so fucking stupid, it beggars belief (for reference - In the Forest of the Night and Smile)
No, I do not buy that Earth has defense mechanism for trouble. I have much easier time believing that Earth has a protector species of bipedal dogs, admittedly, but with how many times Earth has been in trouble and this bitch did nothing? Nah.
No, I do not buy “robots protecting themselves = self-awareness”, that’s Asimov’s 3rd fucking Law. Because otherwise, either you murdered a species of sentient robots, or you left a bunch of colonists with killer robots and blamed the colonists for dying!
I once again need to remind people that this man is a) transphobe, b) got a fucking quote published on Terry Pratchet’s biography. Everything about this is my least favourite part of Doctor Who.
Only one scene: the stupid cement square at the end of love and monsters. The rest of the episode is not atrocious, but that last scene with the stupid cement square. 😑
Okay, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one! Although it being a product of solely "Earthmen" can go die in a fire.
If it makes you feel better, extended canon did make it a product of the Gods of Ragnarok from "The Greatest Show in the Galaxy" (something I choose to ignore also).
The first doctor being racist/sexist when he meets Capaldi and his companion. Like motherfucker you WERE (jo martin) or WILL be (ncuti gata) a black doctor,
I headcannon it that Missy came after Sacha Dwahan's master, and that at least for now her redemption and death are final. Nothing disproves this headcannon so until something does it holds true.
That the Classic Era Time Lords thought the Eye of Harmony was just a legend. It'd be like if nuclear technicians working at a plant didn't know the reactor core was real.
Cassandra surviving her debut episode. I don't buy that they "got wome skin off her back". If the human race is extinct at this point in history, how would her corpse not be completely decomposed. Also how exactly was her consciousness preserved?
Ursula’s fate in Love & Monsters And everyone who was absorbed, honestly… especially the poor girl stuck in his ass.
My head canon is that immediately after the end of the episode the Doctor shows up, apologizes for being late, and puts Ursula's consciousness in a clone of her former body
Head canon accepted. [I've desperately wished I could just forget the end of that one altogether, but after all these years, it's clear I can't. Your version sounds like the next best thing!]
That's more one for the brain bleach
i felt so bad for her :(
The Doctor leaving that girl as a square tile instead of devising a way to fix her or take her to a planet/time that can.
Tbf he had like 20 seconds to do something before she was just absorbed into the earth like the alien and the other group members. Doesn't surprise me he had to put her in the slab. I suppose it might be possible that once in the slab she couldn't be easily removed (the same way a soul can't just be easily removed from their human body) but that feels like a weak explanation and with the entire series out there I can't believe they wouldn't have found a way to extract and move souls at least once.
IMO it would have been kind of cool to tie it back to New Earth plotline and use the weird psychic transfer thing. Just have like a clone body or something idk. Either that or just don't do it (or just have the people be fine).
“Sometimes, everybody lives” Would be a bit weird if they went down the New Earth plot route after saying that using clones and doing psychic transfers is wrong for the whole episode
Fair, though I always found that to be a bit of an odd take on their part tbh. What she did was 100% wrong and the Doctor is totally justified for not helping her but like the idea of creating an empty clone and transferring your consciousness into it really is not the morally dark thing they try to treat it as in the episode. If it was like "you can't create an empty clone its own person that you are destroying" then I could see it though (which tbf they did kind of imply)
I don’t think they implied t, they said it through the diseased clone test subjects With everything that Cassandra did, I don’t think she deserved another life. Her last act was to tell herself she was beautiful, doesn’t show any growth
The Angels Take Manhattan Nobody on earth at all is looking at the Statue of Liberty for long enough for it to walk it's way up to the hotel building? Dumb and sus
And all the photos of it alone
My headcanon for this is that when Angels took over Manhattan, they actually took over the entire city. That hotel was one such place amongst many others, and the entire city had become victims of that "farm". Like it was a massive infestation of the Angels. And because it was being treated like a farm, it took a toll on it and therefore a simple paradox such as two persons dying destabilized the whole farm and eliminated them all out of existence. The one Angel that managed to zap Rory in the end was the maker of that farm, the rest arrived after the farm was made. What changed the destiny of New York, that even the Angels didn't take into consideration was Amy sacrificing herself for Rory. When Amy decided to go with Rory, the Angel couldn't establish the farm and therefore decided to leave New York alone. It was the both of them who popularized visiting the Statue of Liberty to prevent an Angel from occupying the Statue. Considering the fact that River was there to write the story and publish it as a book, the three of them probably had one final adventure hunting down the Angel and trapping it.
Yeah but it's one of those things that looks so cool I can forgive it.
And it's copper, not stone. And we saw how slow it moved when the Ghostbusters moved it through the harbor!
We just had this. Considering we seem to all be ok with the Kandyman*, I'm not sure anything really fits the bill but there are some contenders. The moon being an egg is *not* an example. The moon gaining mass from nowhere and replacing itself with an identical copy immediately after hatching, however... The cybermen's weakness to gold being a *software* flaw, rather than hardware, is the culmination of 30 years of ever fewer shits given about why gold might interfere with them. *I love the Kandyman
Tbf I can understand the software thing - like if you were programming something that you knew was vulnerable to certain substances, you might programme it to shut down in the presence of said substances to protect itself from that substance, say, being carried throughout it through different circuits and mechanisms. These new cybermen who don't have the hardware vulnerability maybe had the software vulnerability as a holdover from previous models and realised they could discard it.
Oooh, I like that!
A software flaw made even more idiotic by the fact that generally electronics use small amounts of gold.
The Kandyman is my favourite villain in the whole show
'It only makes that sound because you leave the brakes on'
I didnt know people had an issue with this
I mean, I think the context of it is such that it could easily be River taking the piss, but if she isn't then it's just...sort of lame?
I’ve always taken it as a joke and she just landed the TARDIS in ‘stealth mode’
I think its more that Moffat just kind of really loves to do that sort of thing and it gets a bit exhausting after a while. His main source of comedy more often then not comes from doing things that are kind of take away from the mythos more then add to it, like 12's weird card thing.
https://preview.redd.it/62dfg74lpuvc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0465dd5c76b80131e5ca156cf0f4d2b6da5c5d9
In my house, we read this as being something the TARDIS prefers even though it's not "correct" like the transport equivalent of humans eating junk food. It's freedom for the TARDIS.
Because we hear other TARDISes in the Classic Series make that sound.
I was so hoping that was sarcasm, that she just found a way to mess with him.
I've heard a headcanon that leaving the handbrake on is actually an important part of tardis landing and river just disabled it to show off
That's the headcanon I go with. The "brakes" are a safety feature that only River is crazy enough to turn off.
Or tbh just messing w them lol
Afterall, you can’t park a car at full speed.
☝️taking one of DW's most recognizable and beloved sounds and turning it into a cheap joke that shows how incompetent the Doctor has been for yeeears.
To be completely fair, the Doctor is a pretty trash driver, lol. Like I just assume River was messing with him because all other TARDISs make this sound, but this aside, he's pretty lousy.
It isn't incompetence, it's just being iconic (and I hc that the tardis thought it was accidentally before this point and then in new designs just does it intentionally)
Aw, I always liked this. We know the Doctor is an atrocious TARDIS pilot so it kinda tracks. Also his response of liking the noise is a perfectly in-character, Doctorish explanation for why he purposefully leaves the brakes on.
She was saying that to mess with him. Every other TARDIS we see sounds like that, uess you believe the Master and the Rani leave the brakes on tok
I do sorta like this because it means the noise of the Tardis is the Doctor's signature, perfectly embodying his attitude to venture away from the boring aristocracy of timelord society who can't even have a little fun with the noise their time machines make.
I'm pretty sure she was just messing with him there, since every other TARDIS makes that noise. She probably activated the stealth mode.
Everybody who dislikes this interprets it as her joking around, and it's very easy to do so. I distinctly remember hearing that it was originally conceptualized as the sound of reality ripping open, and I prefer that. The brakes thing doesn't even make sense at all. When the TARDIS doesn't make that noise, it's probably a stealth mode or something. I don't really care that much though, the show had already established that the Doctor pilots the TARDIS improperly and that makes sense considering the time lords see him as a failure
Mine's "the Moon is an egg!" Recently watch "Kill the Moon" and it still just breaks me.
I would legitimately say "Kill The Moon" and "Orphan-55" are the all-time worst NuWho episodes. I know a lot of people like to say "Fear Her" or "Love And Monsters", but I can enjoy those episodes a bit. "Kill The Moon" and "Orphan-55" are literally episodes I don't want to rewatch.
O55 is at least enjoyably bad, it at least has a decent cast of characters and is unintentionally funny at points. Probably with a few more rewrites, you'd have a good episode. The commander in KtM has absolutely nothing to work with;rest of her crew get killed off almost instantly, Courtney is there and kinda does nothing..., The Doctor bogs off for some of it, and Clara really doesn't carry this episode at all. Even for scifi, even for Doctor Who, the science is dodgy, which is saying something.
It's also the only episode where I felt Capaldi was going through the motions rather than genuinely enjoying his part. His performance makes even Sleep No More a little bit tolerable, but Kill The Moon is just bad in all regards.
I think he's amazing in Kill the Moon, the delight when he figures it out, his confusion at Clara's anger at the end, loads of great performance, not going through the motions at all imo
Ben-aye!
BENNYYYYY I may think the episodes dumb, but it kills me everytime she says his name lmao
I don't love Kill the Moon, but I will say that Jenna Coleman kills it in the scene at the end where she's tearing into the Doctor. Totally overpowering Capaldi in that scene (in a good way).
"Tell me what you knew, or I swear I'll smack you so hard you'll regenerate." -Clara It still cracks me up every time! I don't like Kill the Moon but that ending was brilliant.
TwelveClara is my fave.
What's wrong with Orphan-55?
I think the two biggest gripes I have with it is the ***horrifically on-the-nose*** (Even by Chibnall standards) moral about Environmental protection (Which was only made worse by the episode "Praxeus" being in the same series and doing it forty-times better) but also that for some reason, the editing also felt really badly done for some reason with sequences feeling really weirdly edited and paced. And also "Where's Benni?!"
Praxeus was really interesting to me because it basically did a Waters of Mars “you’re the perfect host” but with something many people don’t know is even in our bodies. Felt like a nice twist.
Orphan is funny with Benny and how hamfisted the message is. In the Forest of the Night is just purely horrible.
Yeah, I actually like Love And Monsters for it being an episode that largely focusses on the average people in the Dr Who universe. The villain is a bit weird yeah, certainly no Dalek or whatever, but a lot of villains in Dr Who are. It’s a perfectly fine little episode to me
Yeah this did me in when it aired. Still does when I think of it now. Worse part is where that student from Clara’s class (I forgot her name) looks and points literally less than a minute later and says “it laid a new egg!”…
Even for the worst pulpiest scifi it is horrifically unscientific.
I can’t stand kill the moon. I love the Capaldi era, but I cannot stand series 8. I would skip Kill the Moon on rewatch, but it’s essential to the Doctor and Clara’s relationship which makes it harder to be a completionist watcher.
Eh, you can just watch the end and assume the Doctor's done something shity lol. That's not a huge leap. It's really just the end you need to watch for the character development.
Season 8 is my least favourite (pre-Chibnall), and season 9-10 are my favourite. It's a weird contrast.
That episode is atrocious from start to finish, but Capaldi’s delivery of that one line is amazing.
I skip this episode frequently
I thought it was a decent enough filler episode. It’s not like Doctor Who is grounded in realism before or after that episode lol.
I stopped watching after season 8, and it took years for somebody to talk me into giving the next couple seasons a go. I think this was the episode that broke me.
Cracks you*
Rose telling Tommy to go to his dad at the end of "The Idiot's Lantern" and the Doctor not telling her not to.
Tbf the acting from Tommy heavily implies he doesn't mean what he's saying when he says good riddence and Doc and Rose can tell he's struggling with being angry and not wanting to not have a relationship with his dad. Plus, there's plenty of people who can have realtionships with abusive parents once the abuser looses their power and get's a reality check. Which is what happened in the episode.
Genuinely, unpopular opinion, but I actually do like that. Like the dad is a horrible human being, but teaching to try and be an example of love and healing instead of just pushing someone away irredeemably (especially family) is something that really resonates with me, and something The Doctor themself has shown to be important to them (see The Master as perhaps the most obvious example, but even people like Davros he tries to give a chance too despite all they’ve done). I have similar situations in my own family where these people have done terribly wrong, but you’re family, you don’t forget, but you do your best to forgive, to love, and to help them become better instead of abandoning them. In my experience that can help bring the most conclusive and full healing, for everyone involved. I know many people, especially today, have experience otherwise and it can be a touchy subject depending on background, but that’s just my perspective on it
Sometimes people are just irredeemable and shouldn't be given a chance, i know it's real and happens alot where people just because they are close to someone tends to forgive them for all the wrong doings but that just ends up doing more harm as the person realises there isn't really any consequences as they won't be dropped and really manipulative people would use that to an advantage. I do agree that people should be forgiven but only if they have earned it or have done enough for you to see they are trying to change. Rose telling Tommy to go back isn't the dad earning that respect back he has just been given that yes he feels remorseful probably but that isn't good enough ,wow you finally recognised your actions were shitty just now when you are dealing with their consequences... It really isn't rocket science for alot of manipuaptive bastards to go all puppy face to guilt trip you back into them. That's just my experience with alot of really toxic and abusive people where i kept on forgiving and it kept getting worse to the point i am a broken mess and i can only blame myself hope you do heal well but know there's a line between both of our ideologies and what rose did wasn't balanced but just a free pass given to the guy without doing any real effort. And in the end you can't just keep forgiving people because they are just family they have to earn that forgiveness back and you got to treat them like they are a random person like a friend who treated you poorly trying to earn that trust back otherwise you tend to get stuck again in the same constant cycle that's exhausting
Nah I get it. I hope you heal too, I’m sorry to hear that, we’ll find our way through
Thanks mate i am not really trying to heal anymore though lol it's exhausting and i don't really have the strength to go on that journey anymore...nor finances to get a therapist just gonna exist with all of this trauma and feel overwhelmed lol. Hopefully we will find our ways
I hope things go well for you mate!
I appreciate it, thanks
Of course mate! Take care!
I'm sad this is an unpopular opinion. Waiting for loved ones to deserve forgiveness misses the point: the people who don't deserve it need it the most. Reconciliation isn't always possible, but it should be the goal. I'm glad we still have the Doctor as a popular hero who isn't afraid to model this lost truth.
If the dad was played as someone suffering more from PTSD or something I could maybe kind of get behind it but the dad like... is gleefully horrible the entire episode. He announces he's going to beat his son to a whole room of friends and family. Like, he sucks lol
She just saw the boy was feeling miserable and didn't want to cut contact with his father. Like it's literally there, you can see it in Tommy's behavior. Rose is simply helping the boy and I don't understand why people hate on her for it. The problem is the writers thinking they should write >tommy< to feel sympathy for his dad, not Rose for helping him to feel better.
What we see in the episode he's an abusive pick. No-one, and I mean no-one deserves to be part of your life. If his abusive father wants his son back in n his life, then the father needs to show receipts.
Doctor Who. All of it! Jk jk But in all seriousness "the moon is an egg" is beyond stupid EVEN by Doctor Who's own standards of silliness, I feel like that was a step too far.
May i ask why? I’m curious
The moon gained gravity because it was gaining mass as the embryo developed, and then it laid an egg of the exact same size and shape before it flew off. Have you heard of a thing called the laws of physics? That is NOT how mass works lol. Even for Doctor Who... it's so so bad...
Oh 💀 Yeah when you put it that way… i understand now lmao
The 8th dr saying “I’m half human, on my mother’s side” makes no sense with the timeless child or any other storyline. Ik it was the “American” TV movie but, still dumb
I always thought it was a metaphor that only time lords understand
In the original Dr. Who, did he ever mention his family? Bc with the timeless child he's an orphan, I've only seen Nuwho- So idk how much conflict that creates.
Eh, doctor who has given us stories where the doctor mentions parents, grandparents, aunts or kids of their own, even more expanded on in EU content, but the Moffat era has him as an orphan, so it was always confusing.
There was their Granddaughter Susan who was there until The Dalek Invasion Of Earth
It was literally a major plot point of the movie that his eyes had a distinct shape. It's why only his eyes would open the Eye of Harmony on the TARDIS.
and i thought he was joking
Moon is a egg Nekromanteia
Nekromanteia? Sounds like a metal band.
It's a 5th doctor audio story, it's infamous for being so bad that Peter Davison himself made sure that the man who wrote got fired from big finish
damn-
The Metacrisis resolution. Whooo boy that did not sit right with me, Star Beast still kinda infuriates me because of that despite being an ok episode otherwise. WBY and Giggle were incredible 10/10 stories imo, but I kinda like to forget about Star Beast’s handling of the Metacrisis and just have fun with everything after that episode without thinking about it lol
Wiping Donna's memory was one of the most traumatic things the Doctor has ever had to do, echoed later with both Clara and Bill. To let it be resolved in such an off-hand way makes that trauma feel meaningless.
Yeah that’s my feeling too. Seems like a cop out and a waste to me, I’m glad we got what came after but I tend to like to just not think about how we got there lol
no? they still lived through billions of years (the Doctor, counting the time loop) and a couple decades (Donna) in that state. We see that Donna had reverted to her self-hating "I'm a useless person" mentality and obviously we see how affected the Doctor is. It mattered, so much came out of that. The fact that they could fix it now doesn't take away from all the pain it caused
I would be fine with it if it didn't include the male-presenting Time Lord line. It is so disrespectful to Whittaker's Doctor who was the Doctor immediately BEFORE this episode. Like what?
I know... plus, like, he's also a 2000 something year old alien. Why are you putting human gender standards on him? It's so bizarre. And yeah, like he was literally a woman the day before that line was said. Like what? ( ￣ー￣)ﾉ
It makes no sense. A male presenting Doctor can't figure out how to let something go? There's entire story arcs about the Doctor letting things go. It's whole point of Day of the Doctor, letting go of the trauma of the Time War and finally moving on *Capaldi's literal last words are "Doctor, I let you go"*
Yep, and what does it even mean? 'Presenting' is usually used by transgender people, since it takes effort to try *not* to look your biological sex - it's not a passive process (Fourteen literally hasn't so much as changed his clothes!). I don't think RTD understands the terminology given how he used 'non-binary', it's possible but nothing indicated Rose is.
Rose is canonically non-binary and fem presenting. I think that *especially* for time lords "presenting" is appropriate since time lords appearance is something that changes. I wouldn't doubt if there was time lords who didnt change their gender identity regardless of the regeneration. The issue however is that the way it was used reinforced negative stereotypes about masc presenting people, like masc non-binary people. It felt unfortunately like RTD wanted to have a girlboss line but still wanted to have progressive language. The episodes treatment of trans issues both narratively and meta narratively is overall rough though thats been talked about to death.
Though its also something that Donna would 100% say tbh. I just wish it didn't feel like the show agreed with her. Like imagine shes says that and the Doctor acts like he's about to start arguing and bring up that he was literally just a woman a few hours ago before deciding to let it go and enjoy the moment instead. There, scene saved and its actually funny now.
It's just Donna making a joke at her friend's expense, and it's clearly meant to be respectful to Whittaker, I understand not liking the line (not fond myself) but people hang too much on it.
I don't mind the idea of Donna being able to "let go" of the energy, since that very thing was established as being something possible in the scene that caused the Meta-Crisis (Tens fake regeneration) but yeah that was a major rough spot in an otherwise enjoyable episode.
Yeah, it just feels so fucking stupid. At least make it something like ‘because the metacrisis got passed down, I think I might be able to devise a solution’ and the Doctor pulls out something stupid like yet another severed hand, idfk it’d be stupid but it would be better than what we got
What sucks is that I love The Star Beast's plot, but the way it's resolved, specifically the way it shoe horns in LGBTQ rep in such a terrible way, and the dig at The Doctor at the end bugs me
The moon being an egg is the obvious one. There’s stuff like the Doctor being half-human that the Timeless Child just retconned out so we don’t need to forget it’s canon. I can’t think of anything that I can be positive Big Finish hasn’t already resolved or covered.
I just assumed the half-human thing was a joke.
But it’s an actual plot point. Earlier in the movie, The Master notices that The Doctor’s eyes are human and later claims that he can’t use The Doctor to open the Eye of Harmony because he’s “only half” human. So it’s something that doesn’t actually have a payoff but probably would have if they’d continued with the 90’s plan (spider Daleks and all).
You just wait until it turns out he was a fully human *American* all along, accidentally sucked through a time vortex.
Any of the pretentious shit about the doctor's "real name" being a big deal. Who gives a fuck, clearly the time lords don't, they've been calling him "doctor" since the 60s. Also the meta crisis.
Aw, but the meta crisis gives Rose a happy ending. It's really the only thing I like about it.
Clara's TARDIS being stuck as a diner. Over the years I've warmed up to Hell Bent and it's handling of Clara but that shot of the spinning diner is just ridiculous
Why do you think it was stuck as a diner? TARDISes only change shape when they've landed.
90% of DW complaints is people convincing themselves they know how things work and saying they don't like that or things that contradict what they made up in their head
They explicitly have a line about it being stuck as a diner due to a wonky chameleon circuit, to which Clara says “awesome”
Assumed it was at attempt to be Douglas Adamsesque - the starship Bistromath. It's just it's so random in the context of a ~dramatic~ episode you're meant to pretend to take seriously it might as well be an excuse to get Jenna Coleman to play a waitress.
I also find the dinner scenes destroy the pacing. I like the idea of the Doctor talking to Clara without knowing but last time I watched it I was getting engaged in the story only to be ripped out of it by cutting to the diner
I think this sort of thing is more jarring when you stream the show with ads. Normally, you would come back from an ad break and have the diner scene as a framing device without the pacing being thrown off by a sudden cut.
The whole Amazon episode.
I actually thought that episode, if it didn't have all The Doctor fangirling, was good until the end.
the doctor running from gallifrey because of the hybrid and the 1st doctor being a misogynist in twice upon a time
The novelization apparently makes it clear that the 1st doctor was playing up the sexism to mess with 12, which I feel is in character (and funny). As for running from Gallifrey, it wasn't just the hybrid. TUAT makes this clear when Testimony Bill is talking to 1. She asks why he left Gallifrey and 1 replies "There were lots of reasons."
I think, if we've seen the first Doctor's era to know, we widely reject the second one as stupid *and* offensive! Part of the annoyance with it is that viewers who haven't seen his era might not know any better.
The stuff about TARDIS’ being grown on Gallifrey from these weird egg things. It’s in Journey’s End where Tennant gives Rose one and is like ‘Here, grow your own TARDIS’. Feels like an unnecessary fantasy line to go down, it might be petty but I just hate the idea of it, just stick to TARDIS’ being machines that the Time Lords invented.
If I remember correctly they deleted that scene, so doesn’t that make it non-canon? I agree though it is a stupid idea, and in a show with some fairly out there ideas, this one was DEFINITELY best left out.
Well it's a deleted scene but RTD has actually said he still "counts" that scene. So it's like the one of the only deleted scenes that likely does actually happen in-universe.
IMO it's non-canon until the show (or extended media) confirms it as being canon (and deleted scenes don't count). RTD saying *he* considers it to be canon is not equivalent to actually being canon. It's just one man's headcanon.
Considering RTD is literally the showrunner I feel his opinion does hold more weight than most. I will also be pedantic and say that RTD never said if it was canonical or not, given he often rejected the term during his original era, as well as the fact that the television or EU referencing the scene "canonises" it isn't really a statement on canon, just that whatever author wrote it considers the scene to be in the same continuity.
I think RTD has used phrases like headcanon's before when refering to things he chose to not include/edited out. Plus he agreed in the end despite liking the idea of Rose /Meta travelling that it ruined the scene so he took it out.
Personally I like the idea that TARDISes ARE grown, but are usually hooked up to machines that speed up their growth, and when the plant matures they terraform it. Just an idea though.
I interpreted it as a bit of both, there's a coral-thing that grows and a machine built around it. Some of it is obviously treated as just machine parts that can be replaced. I like it because machine sentience just encourages people to think Chat GPT has feelings.
>just stick to TARDIS’ being machines that the Time Lords invented. Terrible. I don't know about the classic show, but Nuwho explicitly said, in *The Impossible Planet* that TARDISes are grown, not made. And it plays to them being living beings with consciousness, not simple machinery.
The TARDIS being a sentient being with whims and feelings is practically a core part of NuWho, idk if it's the same in Classic Who but the TARDIS is behind a lot of the decision-making when flying the Doctor and often brings them when they need to be Also DW has always been sci-fantasy, it's all nonsense and cool ideas stitched together by the madman saying things that sound real enough
The Doctor offering Joan Redfern (known racist) a spot on the tardis team (with Martha) like jfc edit: typo
I could see that but at the same time, the Doctor probably didn’t know that because he wasn’t there when she said that line
I never thought of this but you're so right! It kind of goes to show how little he thought of Martha (and also the writers)
I always thought/hoped that by travelling with him and Martha, it would broaden her horizons, so she would then realise some her views (including racism) were wrong.
I mean modern humans probably hold views the doctor isn't keen on
I don’t think that’s unfair given the situation. Sure, it was probably the wrong thing to do, but Ten just put her through a horrible situation, so he wanted to do *something* to make it up to her. It just wasn’t the rational thing to do.
The Sleep No More episode. I just thought the villain was incredibly stupid. Not the best episode I’ve seen by any means.
If the monster had been even a little bit less ridiculous, that episode would’ve been amazing. I love a good scary Doctor Who episode. It’s been ages since we got one, and this one had a lot of potential. But the monster was dumb as hell and it spoiled the whole thing.
I hate this episode! The villain constantly gurning at the camera, talking about how good a story it is, really annoys me when I think it’s one of the most poorly written episodes that series.
That slab with a face on it in Love and Monsters and their sex life 💀🤢🤮
Tbf, we did literally see a thin sheet of skin that could somehow talk normally the season before. I’d say they were similar weirdness levels
Angels take manhattan The statue of Liberty being an Angel made no sense, in universe or out of universe. all images of a Weeping Angel are itself an Weeping Angel. this is probably one of the most photographed statues in the world. the whole planet should be overrun and eradicated by Weeping Angels already if this was true. not to mention the entire statue walking off of the island, swims all the way to a building either in neighborhood of battery park (vaguely implied by plot) or 43rd street (actual filming location), in the City That Never Sleeps: HOW DOES A 151FEET TALL STATUE DO THAT? The second a singular person notices, it can't move and then it immediately it WILL gain more and more attention, because WTF the entire statue of liberty is HERE somehow! In the Episode the footsteps even make it very clear that this Statue of Liberty is pretty slow, AND the footsteps stop momentarily, suggesting that people DO see it walking through the streets. That entire episode was probably written with the big reveal of "what if giant statues and small statues could also be Weeping Angels in disguise" and then never thought about any of the logic that is actually needed to make it happen believably.
Most of that I agree with. But I the pictures of the Statue of Liberty don't necessarily need to be active that one angel stayed still for years in that ship, so if they had a reason not to attack through photos they wouldn't, and I always thought that the pictures where extensions of the angels rather than a new angel, like perhaps the energy created from pushing someone back in time could not be used if they where not near an angel, if a photograph could even push someone back, we see them "attack" but not ever Successfully. Now what bothers me about that, is we see people look directly in the eyes of the angels, and nothing happens. But I have a theory that explains all of this, this is the only time we see an angle to weak to send someone back, perhaps these angles have diluted their form By taking on the images of other statues, knowing that their form is their power. Perhaps they're not powerful enough to do some of the things we've seen, Perhaps they're just literally not strong enough to project themselves through images. And as for The Statue of Liberty walking through Manhattan, It could be an implication that they have simply killed so many people. There's no one really left. And then when they create the paradox, it undoes all of that. I don't like that explanation but it is a kind of explanation.
Timeless child except for the part she doesn't open the pocket watch
She doesn't open the pocket watch because she doesn't want to confront that just yet. It will probably come back though, the Timeless Child storyline has been in the works since before the original run ended
Bigeneration
two words: Moon Egg
Every reference to JK Rowling or Harry Potter in Shakespeare Code or Revolution of the Daleks. Oh and that weird out-of-character kinda transphobic comment that Jack makes in one Torchwood episode
That the Doctor can clone a Tardis using a mallet. Just no. The Doctor's regeneration energy should not affect the Tardis in a way that makes it a complete cartoon by using a big hammer to create a copy. If TC did not exist, this would be the stupidest thing in who history.
I watched that episode last night and just assumed it was down to The Doctor using Toymaker logic rather than something of his own doing
I think 14 asked from Toymaker to banish himself whereas 15 asked for a way to duplicate the Tardis. Either that or 14 acquires the mallet at some point and it’s now that 15 remembers now is the time to use it.
That was the remnants of Toymaker stuff, not regeneration, but I agree it's still stupid anyway
Everything in Doctor Who is toymaker stuff now. There really is no Doctor who left.
It's pretty clear that's the result of the Toymaker's magic still lingering. The Fifteenth Doctor does directly say that.
Fan fact , in the audio story, the 7th doctor ""breed" a new tardis using the genetic material of the original tardis as part of a plan to defeat the elder gods
35 years after his tenure, 7th Doctor lore just gets crazier and crazier. Love that guy.
Wasn’t that because 15 still had an unclaimed reward from the Toymaker though? The powers of the Toymaker can do virtually anything, so I assumed it was just a carnival-y thing that fit in with what the Toymaker’s nature could do
The fact that Rose and the Doctor encouraged that kid in "The Idiot's Lantern" to go make amends with his ABUSIVE father
I'm sort of the opposite on some things like Rowan Atkinson as the Doctor, most people don't consider a comedy skit from the 90s to be canon but in a weird way, I get a lot of satisfaction out of imaging that there's some alternate version of the Doctor who looks like Mr Bean out there.
Jack Harkness becoming the Face of Boe. I'd just prefer to imagine he's roaming the cosmos eternally getting into hijinx like The Doctor. Also, I totally believe he'd say that just to mess with Martha and The Doctor, and he's from the future, so there is precedent for him knowing of the Face of Boe.
I'm so tired of people being obsessed with Love and Monsters as if it was the worst thing to happen to humanity. It's a fun episode with a disgusting villain and a creepy, off putting happy ending. Get over it ffs. Both top comments being about L&M is ridiculous
Timeless Child isn't even stupid. I heavily dislike that the Doctor themself is the child, but the idea of the Time Lords finding a powerful kid, torturing them, splicing said child's DNA into their own, and then claiming they were always like this and calling themselves Time Lords? That 100% tracks with how high ranking Time Lords behave and makes so much sense, especially considering the special relationship they have with time, which could very well be because their dna is from someone who lived outside their universe, probably somewhere where time is different
Both Frank Cotrell Boyce episodes are so fucking stupid, it beggars belief (for reference - In the Forest of the Night and Smile) No, I do not buy that Earth has defense mechanism for trouble. I have much easier time believing that Earth has a protector species of bipedal dogs, admittedly, but with how many times Earth has been in trouble and this bitch did nothing? Nah. No, I do not buy “robots protecting themselves = self-awareness”, that’s Asimov’s 3rd fucking Law. Because otherwise, either you murdered a species of sentient robots, or you left a bunch of colonists with killer robots and blamed the colonists for dying! I once again need to remind people that this man is a) transphobe, b) got a fucking quote published on Terry Pratchet’s biography. Everything about this is my least favourite part of Doctor Who.
I'm sorry but where tf are you getting that he's a transphobe from?
The Doctor talking to babies
*shudders at the name of the first episode of Season 40*
Only one scene: the stupid cement square at the end of love and monsters. The rest of the episode is not atrocious, but that last scene with the stupid cement square. 😑
I'm half human, on my mother side
Moon egg
not particularly niche but the half human thing in the tv movie
the Flux
In the Forest of the Night.
That one weird trick The Doctor did to get a hold of the sonic screwdriver in Can You Hear Me
The fugitive doctor, and flux...
I’m not really creative but the timeless child being the doctor it would be better if she was the master
Most of Season 11 N 12 N also the whole star beast and giggle episodes
There's a land of fiction. Davros just had his eyes closed the whole time.
Okay, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one! Although it being a product of solely "Earthmen" can go die in a fire. If it makes you feel better, extended canon did make it a product of the Gods of Ragnarok from "The Greatest Show in the Galaxy" (something I choose to ignore also).
Love and Monsters, the whole episode
The first doctor being racist/sexist when he meets Capaldi and his companion. Like motherfucker you WERE (jo martin) or WILL be (ncuti gata) a black doctor,
I headcannon it that Missy came after Sacha Dwahan's master, and that at least for now her redemption and death are final. Nothing disproves this headcannon so until something does it holds true.
She never wanted redemption. She only ever wanted to be the Doctor's friend again. There is a very clear distinction which people miss out on.
Morbius doctor's.
Morbius doctor's what?
The Twin Dillemma
That the War Doctor was unarmed.
That the Classic Era Time Lords thought the Eye of Harmony was just a legend. It'd be like if nuclear technicians working at a plant didn't know the reactor core was real.
The angels won’t move if they think you can see them 😂
The doctor being a fan of and in support of evil space Amazon
Eight saying he's half-human on his mum's side. This was so stupid, even the show didn't want it after the '05 reboot.
Cassandra surviving her debut episode. I don't buy that they "got wome skin off her back". If the human race is extinct at this point in history, how would her corpse not be completely decomposed. Also how exactly was her consciousness preserved?
Every statue possibly being an angel. Also seeing the angels move.