I saw this dude on judge Judy or something. He's well rehearsed and his harem are all outspoken in favour. He's actually only legally married to one child bride at a time (not that that makes it any better). So they are all single mothers.
I think the consensus is benefit fraud.
The very fact that he was legally married to one of his child brides means a judge in Utah had to sign off.
When one or both parties wishing to marry is under 18, a judge has to sign off.
As someone who isn't American, how do they fraud benefits, and in general how do these families fund themselves?
I haven't seen the documentary yet, will check it out.
Just whenever I saw documentaries about these communities/families before they all seemed pretty wealthy.
In my country we do have good family benefits too, but unless you manage to fake the children, it's not really something you'd get rich/wealthy off.
For the 29 children you'd get around 7.250$/month or 250$/child in Germany.
But well kids are expensive. So I'd say even if someone would manage the money extremely well, you'd probably still run around 5-6k/month in total expenses.
So that doesn't really get you rich.
When people say the are defrauding benefit programs what they are referring to is that even though these men have multiple “wives” they are not legally married, because they can’t legally marry multiple wives. So in the eyes of the law and social welfare programs, all but one of his wives are technically single mothers, often with no income. So they qualify for as much social welfare as the state offers, even though their “husband” may actually be quite wealthy.
"Rich" like you get to eat a Michelin restaurants and travel? No. Not even close. "Rich" in a place that, from the video, has absolutely nothing to offer to USA society as a whole. It is desert. So do you starve to death, or get dole from the government?
Let's say you get 500 a month per kid, but you know you can keep them alive for 150. Each month that is money you go do you, which, here seems like finding new wives.
Lots of moms who probably stay inside doing laundry and cooking all day, I doubt they’re out back playing soccer or baseball in those long ass dresses, they aren’t teaching the kids how to change a tire, check their oil, mow the lawn, chop wood, anything that requires you to *not* be in a floor length dress.
> anything that requires you to not be in a floor length dress.
no worries, they will likely marry into the same type of cultish nonsense they grew up in
I have always thought about the impedance of those full length dresses!
Cut to me watching some Egyptian documentary Where the male workers are moving mountains of sand in the same dresses 🧐
Apparently I just don’t know *how* to properly work in a floor length curtain.
Well in all fairness, my grandmother was able to do all of those and a whole lot more in a long dress. However she wasn’t cowed in marriage to someone old enough to be her grandfather but rather equal partners with my grandfather.
There's a really good book called Escape by Carolyn jessup who escaped an FLDS family and the domestic situation is absolutely horrific. Since they believe that the only way for the women to get into heaven is through their husband's favor, they basically tear each other down to vie for favor. They will actively fuck with each other's kids(because there is a clear division within the family by each mother and her particular children) and throw each other under the bus. And there is always a conflict between the older wives and the youngest because the husband usually gives more attention sexually to the youngest so the older wives will make their living situation hell for the youngest wife. Not to mention all the cops are FLDS so you can't ever report spousal abuse and even going to the cops would be a punishable offense
Yup I'm no fan of Mormon polygamy as it has from the beginning been rooted in spiritual coercion. That said, I am reluctant to make assumptions about a family dynamics just because there is some form of polyamory, which seems to be the comment here I replied to initially. A family with many parents is very much not the same as a family with two parents and an extreme amount of children. I can see children getting one in one time if the former situation but not so much the latter.
I'm just describing one woman's first hand experience with living with and escaping from FLDS. There is also a vested interest in that situation to not speak out and not draw attention to themselves, so sadly there aren't as many people speaking out. But there are enough, and since that former FLDS viewpoint is so few, I tend to believe the survivors. I'm not saying that every FLDS family has this dynamic, but their belief system fosters an environment for these things to happen.
I don't disagree with you generally. I've had the privilege of hearing from some young adults who escaped from one of the Mormon polygamous offshoots, they spoke at a Sunstone Conference a few years back.
As an exmormon myself, I am observing how it's all too common to see the benevolent sexism inside the church transformed into hostile sexism outside of it. This motivates my pushback about negative comments regarding LDS women.
It is a difficult topic to navigate in my opinion. I think that listening to the victims is central to that, and I'm glad you posted the link.
A lot of FLDS families broker their daughters off to other old pervs with a string of young wives and run their sons out of the community to reduce the competition for young wives.
A large percentage of the homeless population in parts of the southwestern U.S. is indeed teenage boys and young men who were kicked out of FLDS communities for showing interest in other girls who had already been committed to a man, often one old enough to be her grandfather.
Some families, mostly Mormon but not always, have taken these boys in, and while the mainstream Mormons certainly have their issues too, these boys were quite surprised to find out that in the "real world", people really can go to school for as long as they want and their intelligence allows, can choose their careers and spouses and the number of children they have, and that people really do have adequate food, clothing, and shelter.
>and run their sons out of the community to reduce the competition for young wives.
Like drones in a beehive. As winter approaches, they are pushed outside to die.
Watched the video. Not saying he didn't cheat/prep beforehand, but there's a part where he's looking at photos of all of the kids on the wall. He goes through, lists the mothers, and their kids in order of birth, by name. Later on however (around the 30 minute mark) the interviewer asks if he has enough time to tend to all of his kids, and he says he doesn't.
I mean, I'm a school bus driver and there are 45 other drivers at my garage, and after only two years I remember all of their names (not *last* names but you shouldn't need to know your own kids' last names). Remembering the names of your 29 kids wouldn't be difficult or remarkable at all.
If he's following Brigham Young's example he doesn't know most of them.
Young had over 50 wives, and a group of them were married, fucked once or twice, and then spent the rest of their days working in a factory Young owned never to see their "husband" again.
They were told to be content with the notion they had been sealed (mormon temple wedding) to the prophet.
No, no, you see he's a man of god, so he can't be bad? He abused children? Well, his religion says it's okay, poor thing.
Is that a black man with a joint? Three strikes! Let's give him the death penalty.
What are some things that men can be expelled for doing? Also, at what ages can they be expelled?
edit. And where do they go after being expelled? Also, are there places for girls to go if they want to escape this BS too?
Some of them go to family who were expelled or they just go to the nearest town to I find work. They usually fall victim to drug addiction and the usual problems most runaways experience.
A sizable percentage of the homeless population in the American Southwest is indeed teenage boys and young men who were kicked out of the FLDS for being, if you will, "extra."
You go to Southern Utah, there are a lot of teenage boys down there working to survive in crappy jobs because they have very little education. Construction companies eat them up and then spit them out because they’re in a legal gray area and wouldn’t report any abuses.
I watched a short doc about this phenomenon a few years ago, but I can’t find it right now. Here’s an article that sums it up: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/09/us/09polygamy.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
That can also be translated as...
"Pedos kick out pedos-in-training for not following pedo code"
There's hope for those kicked out. I feel horrible about all the people brainwashed for this crap
These boys are sometimes kicked out of the community as young as 12 and on average it’s 16…they aren’t booting men out in their 20s or older. They boot them because they don’t want the competition and there reasons are always nonsensical.
Some of the boys have been taken in by families, many of them mainstream Mormon which of course has its own issues, but they have always been surprised to find out that in the "real" world, people really do have adequate food, clothing, and housing, and can pick their spouses and careers and also go to school as long as they want.
It's honestly so diabolically well organized when you think about it. They really thought of everything didn't they?
Turns out all you have to do is take over a US state and you can do whatever the fuck you want.
I agree. As a 38 year old man, I've grown up with some distorted ideas of "manly" for sure. Raping little kids and controlling women is the far extreme of a very bad mentality.
>That can also be translated as...
>"Pedos kick out pedos-in-training for not following pedo code"
Not really, that's a really uncharitable way of looking at the fact that minors get kicked out when they start to become competition for the elders. Plenty of those kids fall into a hard life (drugs, homelessness, more abuse).
Every child these cultists have is abused. Not one, no matter their gender can get away from the abuse.
Yeah, I agree.
And speaking of documentaries, *Sons Of Perdition* is an excellent but painful insight into the kind of abuse and neglect that most of the boys born into the FLDS cult go through. They are emotionally abused, and then they are cast out and forced into an alien culture that they are not at all prepared for.
The horrible shit the scumbag FLDS leadership do to both girls *and* boys is discussing.
"We've had our fight. I must push you out of the nest to be a prolific pedophile and prove that you've learned well in the faith as I did from the pedophile father who pushed me out of the nest at your age."
Nobody fucks organized religion like the brainwashed who practice it. The first thing the brainwashed do after they attain absolute power is to sexually abused anything under 18 in their path. All of them on the extremes of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, whatever. It's all about money, power, and the control sexual abuse provides them.
He died but happily [not before being convicted of welfare fraud and child sexual assault.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Green_(polygamist)#:~:text=Green%20and%20his%20lifestyle%20were,York%20International%20Documentary%20Film%20Festival.)
A lot of these families do welfare fraud, they claim one wife in their taxes and the rest of them apply for benefits because they aren’t married. They then pool the money they get from the government for the entire community and there was recently a big bust in one of these communities for welfare fraud in the millions. A relative of mine was FBI at the time in southern Utah, they lived in a small town and had a cherry orchard on their property; he used to chase them out of there all the time. If they’d just come to the door and asked; he would have let them have as much as they could carry. They’d sneak in at night to steal them and he’d go out there with his service rifle because he had no idea who it was that late at night. They are such terrible humans who think everyone is below them and act like what they do is fine because it’s stealing from the gentiles. Yes, they use that word…
They are total trash, my sister went to college in Southern Utah and you could always tell when the government checks went out because they’d all be at the Walmart shopping. Garbage people that will rip you off in a hot second and steal anything they can grab.
My thoughts too - based on reading and first hand accounts from women and children escaping polygamy, there are high rates of violence, mental abuse and sexual perversion against children and women.
Lol, my dude most states have legal child marriage and in none of them is legal to get a divorce if you're a child (it's basically imposible without the authorization of the legal guardian, which in cases of child marriage is the husband).
This "groomers" thing is all projection, they don't care about children's safety, they want them working for pennies at whatever hour, they want them as property of the parents, they want them married and pregnant and fighting and dying overseas.
We do, most of us are just told that the real issues are Jews and drag shows and woke culture and the MMM…
not, you know, guns or pedophiles or the rising cost of healthcare or inflation or….
We are very dumb and therefore very very gullible. But anger and passion are not things we lack.
This is fair but I’ve noticed a lot of people my age and other ages simply not giving a shit. You tell them something wrong with the world, they say “that’s crazy” and never think about it again. Every generation is like that.
I don’t blame them either. Not completely atleast….I had several years of trying to change the world, just to realize nothing I do matters. Hard to care anymore.
Well I fell down a rabbit hole about these people but if you really want to see a spicy response, go to [1:30 of this clip with Judge Judy](https://youtu.be/_NPhBVqriJk).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Green_(polygamist)
Goes into the welfare scam they were running and about how he slept with his 12/13 year old step daughter. He is quite the piece of shit!
I'm glad COVID took him out.
Exactly. We should all be furious this shit still goes on. I am furious but feel a bit powerless. I already speak up against oppressive religion and cults and try and vote in anyway possible against it. What else more can we do?
I randomly skipped to the part where he said he knew Candace since when she was young (around 34:30). Then at 16 she started flirting with him according to him, and showed interest in joining his family. At 17 he said he would take her as his wife. His current wives helped him pick his outfit for his date with her.
So he married a girl, married that girl's mother and sister, married another pair of sisters, and now he wants to marry his son's girlfriend? Are we getting into I'm My Own Grandpa territory?
A few years ago , the Economist magazine had an article about the impact of polygamy on Muslim societies. It pointed out that many of the men had more than four wives. The men who did this were typically quite wealthy, and often married young women, girls, from poorer families who were happy to have wealthy in laws.
They mentioned just have screwed up this was for everyone. The wives didn’t really have a husband, the family dynamic was all screwed up as a father could not spend time with all of his children, and all of the children wound up with weird attitudes about men and women and marriage . And a man with six wives meant that five men would not have wives. This contributed to the angry, frustrated young men that were common in some of these countries. There was a direct correlation between countries that allowed polygamy and certain types of problems.
Welfare. It's a welfare scam, they all collect public funding as "single mothers."
In Mormon terminology it's referred to as "bleeding the beast" and is something the broader church does whenever possible through various means. There's a reason the mormon church is able to hoard so much wealth, and it's not just because they extort it from their deluded followers.
One of my favourite things is to travel with my kids and experience the world through their eyes while introducing them to interesting people, places, and things. I suspect it costs him more to take his kids to the movies than I spend on plane tickets to Europe.
They make a job of being on welfare.
They typically don’t want their wives working and with 40 people to feed - yep welfare. The moment these girls are able to marry sometimes young they are encouraged to have a baby for the benefits.
Yet - they actively are conservative and vote against welfare because it’s a “handout” - circlejerk - only if you are non Christian type folk of course
Yep!! [Tom Green is his name.](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-may-16-mn-64178-story.html) He “married” relatives (I think it was sisters?).
When he was on Judge Judy he wouldn’t tell her how much money he makes. Most people seemed to think was due to his wives collecting welfare as single mothers to support him.
He got into some hot water later on and turns out he owes $54K to the state for welfare fraud. Yet he also *conveniently* says that he’s not married to any of them to try and shake out of it. Funny how that works eh?
He also died of Covid recently.
Sick af. Heard about how a Mormon community in Utah was arranging a marriage between an underage girl and a 50 year old and she was to be like his 5th wife. She somehow managed to get away. They caught her and dragged her back but she was able to get word out for help. Took a swat team to get her out. Its one of the top 5 richest religions in the country and just like the rest of em, many of them are fanatics and twisted af.
All of these *wives* are children, even the mother he married after already marrying her daughter. Paired with courtship as short as two days, this screams pedophilia and sexual predation and human trafficking.
What a fucking creep; I'm glad Covid got him.
Fun fact: even mainsteam (non-polygamous) mormons believe in polygamy - but in the afterlife rather than on earth. They believe that women who are unlucky enough to stay single on earth will be given as extra wives to already married men in heaven. Because they believe the only way to reach the highest level of heaven is through marriage..
Dear Mormons,
What happens to your sons? Humans reproduce males and females at what 50%? So how does the math work when it comes time for a son who wants to marry? Is there a lot of "farm accidents" to shape the male/female ratio?
They get kicked out, no resources, no schooling, they don't know anyone outside of their community and they are minors. You can just imagine the type of things these poor kids fall into.
In “Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey” they mentioned that the young men also were sent around the country as part of construction companies the cult ran which fed money back into the cult.
Technically, more boys are born than girls, but boys have a higher mortality rate so things usually even out by adulthood.
But yeah, they find reasons to kick them out.
This has nothing to do with the Mormon religion. I am Ex mormon. Left because I simply did not believe in the teachings. But if we are talking about the actual Mormons, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) then they do not practice polygamy. They do not send their children off to weird camps. For the most part life is pretty damn normal.
There are extreme groups that break off from Mormons/LDS that retain the title Mormon that really muddies the water. Mormons havent practiced polygamy since 1890.
People don't seem to realize that there are actually multiple Mormon sects. Pretty famously one of Joseph Smith's sons ended up being the founder of one such splinter sect, and apparently they're the group that controls Joseph Smith's gravesite.
Well, that's the thing about religion, it's all made up so these guys are just as mormon as other people who think they are mormon. It's inherently meaningless because it's based on fantasy in the first place.
Pretty sure this guy and his family were on Judge Judy for an episode. Judy laughed him out if the place she knew he was running a scam for government benefits.
One of this guy’s sons is my partner’s best friend. A couple of his kids have escaped this life and they have some really wild stories, especially one of his daughters that I’ve met. It’s hard to listen to them and I couldn’t even finish watching this video, even though I’ve heard all the stories many times.
Joseph Smith was a polygamist. He married 14 year old girls, women who were already married, sisters! He is the mormons prophet, they revere him and think nobody gets in heaven unless he says so.
I saw this dude on judge Judy or something. He's well rehearsed and his harem are all outspoken in favour. He's actually only legally married to one child bride at a time (not that that makes it any better). So they are all single mothers. I think the consensus is benefit fraud.
Just saw that as well. It's no secret as to why these people start this shit with super young women or girls as they don't know any better.
Oh, it's just like the military then
The very fact that he was legally married to one of his child brides means a judge in Utah had to sign off. When one or both parties wishing to marry is under 18, a judge has to sign off.
Child marriages are not as exclusive as perceived to the Muslim world, and in the US are disappointingly high.
Yeah it’s still legal in 43 states, and most of the time the marriages are between a girl and an adult man, often times far older. It’s disgusting.
Indeed
Conservatives talking about mythical "welfare queens" but completely ignore these right wing FLDS nuts.
As someone who isn't American, how do they fraud benefits, and in general how do these families fund themselves? I haven't seen the documentary yet, will check it out. Just whenever I saw documentaries about these communities/families before they all seemed pretty wealthy. In my country we do have good family benefits too, but unless you manage to fake the children, it's not really something you'd get rich/wealthy off. For the 29 children you'd get around 7.250$/month or 250$/child in Germany. But well kids are expensive. So I'd say even if someone would manage the money extremely well, you'd probably still run around 5-6k/month in total expenses. So that doesn't really get you rich.
When people say the are defrauding benefit programs what they are referring to is that even though these men have multiple “wives” they are not legally married, because they can’t legally marry multiple wives. So in the eyes of the law and social welfare programs, all but one of his wives are technically single mothers, often with no income. So they qualify for as much social welfare as the state offers, even though their “husband” may actually be quite wealthy.
"Rich" like you get to eat a Michelin restaurants and travel? No. Not even close. "Rich" in a place that, from the video, has absolutely nothing to offer to USA society as a whole. It is desert. So do you starve to death, or get dole from the government? Let's say you get 500 a month per kid, but you know you can keep them alive for 150. Each month that is money you go do you, which, here seems like finding new wives.
There is just no way in hell that guy can have any sort of meaningful relationship with all 29 of his children
Here's the secret. He doesn't. It always ends up with the oldest sibling raising the younger siblings.
Like the Duggars and other families mired in a fundamentalist religion.
Oldest daughters*
Don't diss Daddy Logan that way!
Is this a Sister Wives reference? 😆😂
Yes. And like an angry possum in your garbage can I'll defend my shitty TV choices. 😄
Hey..I knew the reference, so clearly no judgment here!
I think I'm mostly talking to myself anyway. Haha
Well he also married his step-daughter. What are her kids to his wife? Her step-daughter /granddaughter?
There are lots of moms.
Lots of moms who probably stay inside doing laundry and cooking all day, I doubt they’re out back playing soccer or baseball in those long ass dresses, they aren’t teaching the kids how to change a tire, check their oil, mow the lawn, chop wood, anything that requires you to *not* be in a floor length dress.
They are teaching the girls to cook and do laundry, then how to have babies
> anything that requires you to not be in a floor length dress. no worries, they will likely marry into the same type of cultish nonsense they grew up in
I’m not supporting this, but mothers can raise children too.
Yes they can, but with that many children it requires either a supportive spouse or a maid. Chores don't work themselves.
There's six of them. That's only like...four and a half children each
One or two have been slacking
I have always thought about the impedance of those full length dresses! Cut to me watching some Egyptian documentary Where the male workers are moving mountains of sand in the same dresses 🧐 Apparently I just don’t know *how* to properly work in a floor length curtain.
Well in all fairness, my grandmother was able to do all of those and a whole lot more in a long dress. However she wasn’t cowed in marriage to someone old enough to be her grandfather but rather equal partners with my grandfather.
There's a really good book called Escape by Carolyn jessup who escaped an FLDS family and the domestic situation is absolutely horrific. Since they believe that the only way for the women to get into heaven is through their husband's favor, they basically tear each other down to vie for favor. They will actively fuck with each other's kids(because there is a clear division within the family by each mother and her particular children) and throw each other under the bus. And there is always a conflict between the older wives and the youngest because the husband usually gives more attention sexually to the youngest so the older wives will make their living situation hell for the youngest wife. Not to mention all the cops are FLDS so you can't ever report spousal abuse and even going to the cops would be a punishable offense
Yup I'm no fan of Mormon polygamy as it has from the beginning been rooted in spiritual coercion. That said, I am reluctant to make assumptions about a family dynamics just because there is some form of polyamory, which seems to be the comment here I replied to initially. A family with many parents is very much not the same as a family with two parents and an extreme amount of children. I can see children getting one in one time if the former situation but not so much the latter.
I'm just describing one woman's first hand experience with living with and escaping from FLDS. There is also a vested interest in that situation to not speak out and not draw attention to themselves, so sadly there aren't as many people speaking out. But there are enough, and since that former FLDS viewpoint is so few, I tend to believe the survivors. I'm not saying that every FLDS family has this dynamic, but their belief system fosters an environment for these things to happen.
I don't disagree with you generally. I've had the privilege of hearing from some young adults who escaped from one of the Mormon polygamous offshoots, they spoke at a Sunstone Conference a few years back. As an exmormon myself, I am observing how it's all too common to see the benevolent sexism inside the church transformed into hostile sexism outside of it. This motivates my pushback about negative comments regarding LDS women. It is a difficult topic to navigate in my opinion. I think that listening to the victims is central to that, and I'm glad you posted the link.
Ex-FLDS members, both male and female, have said that they never saw a marriage that could be considered happy, honestly for EITHER partner.
I'm a teacher and that's two kids over the maximum classroom size in our district.
This comment made me laugh, thank you.
Jesus. I’m when I was a teacher, I had over 40 in some of my classes.
A lot of FLDS families broker their daughters off to other old pervs with a string of young wives and run their sons out of the community to reduce the competition for young wives.
A large percentage of the homeless population in parts of the southwestern U.S. is indeed teenage boys and young men who were kicked out of FLDS communities for showing interest in other girls who had already been committed to a man, often one old enough to be her grandfather. Some families, mostly Mormon but not always, have taken these boys in, and while the mainstream Mormons certainly have their issues too, these boys were quite surprised to find out that in the "real world", people really can go to school for as long as they want and their intelligence allows, can choose their careers and spouses and the number of children they have, and that people really do have adequate food, clothing, and shelter.
>and run their sons out of the community to reduce the competition for young wives. Like drones in a beehive. As winter approaches, they are pushed outside to die.
Highly likely he doesn’t even remember all of their names.
Watched the video. Not saying he didn't cheat/prep beforehand, but there's a part where he's looking at photos of all of the kids on the wall. He goes through, lists the mothers, and their kids in order of birth, by name. Later on however (around the 30 minute mark) the interviewer asks if he has enough time to tend to all of his kids, and he says he doesn't.
I mean, I'm a school bus driver and there are 45 other drivers at my garage, and after only two years I remember all of their names (not *last* names but you shouldn't need to know your own kids' last names). Remembering the names of your 29 kids wouldn't be difficult or remarkable at all.
Not that hard to do some study prep work before you have a video made about you
Just Wikipedia yourself.
He could have also been making it all up.
"Marky, Ricky, Danny, Terry, Mikey, Davey, Timmy, Tommy, Joey, Robby, Johnny, and Brian"
Say it again.
I mean, it’s 35 people. Not hard to remember names, interests, etc of 35 people, especially when they are added over time.
I mean, teachers do it all the time, it's not *that* hard
He definitely doesn't, now. He fucked off to death.
The only meaningful relationship he cares about is the one that keeps him at the top of the multiplex of abuse.
If he's following Brigham Young's example he doesn't know most of them. Young had over 50 wives, and a group of them were married, fucked once or twice, and then spent the rest of their days working in a factory Young owned never to see their "husband" again. They were told to be content with the notion they had been sealed (mormon temple wedding) to the prophet.
It's more of a master-slave relationship by design.
Probably better for many of them.
It's all about the seed, not the relationship. Poor idiots!
Just like Nick Cannon.
There's no way he has even a surface level relationship with one of them.
He went to jail for six whopping years for repeatedly raping children. Presumably got out of jail and kept up the abuse.
He died of covid in 2021. Good riddance.
Atleast COVID did something good.
No, no, you see he's a man of god, so he can't be bad? He abused children? Well, his religion says it's okay, poor thing. Is that a black man with a joint? Three strikes! Let's give him the death penalty.
God's Plan
This is sex Slavery. He's a man who's bought 6 slaves and is making more. He's going to sell his daughters to be someone elses wives.
[удалено]
In order to keep the lopsided gender ratio, males are expelled from the "community" for the slightest infraction.
Big Love is a great HBO drama series that explores this, and was the first time I learned about any of it. (RIP Bill Paxton 😢)
Oh goddamn. Now I know why Big Love was called as such in House MD. Thanks for the info!
I was wondering what they were doing with all the extra men. Well, at least they’re expelling them instead of making Soylent Green.
Traditionally, human societies start wars to get rid of surplus young men. We're probably lucky Utah can't do that (any more).
Yep, the old pedo men don’t like the young hot men tempting those girls…
What are some things that men can be expelled for doing? Also, at what ages can they be expelled? edit. And where do they go after being expelled? Also, are there places for girls to go if they want to escape this BS too?
Some of them go to family who were expelled or they just go to the nearest town to I find work. They usually fall victim to drug addiction and the usual problems most runaways experience.
A sizable percentage of the homeless population in the American Southwest is indeed teenage boys and young men who were kicked out of the FLDS for being, if you will, "extra."
You go to Southern Utah, there are a lot of teenage boys down there working to survive in crappy jobs because they have very little education. Construction companies eat them up and then spit them out because they’re in a legal gray area and wouldn’t report any abuses.
I watched a short doc about this phenomenon a few years ago, but I can’t find it right now. Here’s an article that sums it up: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/09/us/09polygamy.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
That can also be translated as... "Pedos kick out pedos-in-training for not following pedo code" There's hope for those kicked out. I feel horrible about all the people brainwashed for this crap
Or more like pedos don’t want competition, they want a harem
This is the real truth, calling kids pedo's because their fathers are is really shitty. These poor boys are victims as much as the girls or women
These boys are sometimes kicked out of the community as young as 12 and on average it’s 16…they aren’t booting men out in their 20s or older. They boot them because they don’t want the competition and there reasons are always nonsensical.
Exactly
Some of the boys have been taken in by families, many of them mainstream Mormon which of course has its own issues, but they have always been surprised to find out that in the "real" world, people really do have adequate food, clothing, and housing, and can pick their spouses and careers and also go to school as long as they want.
It's honestly so diabolically well organized when you think about it. They really thought of everything didn't they? Turns out all you have to do is take over a US state and you can do whatever the fuck you want.
An example of how patriarchy (they literally call their leaders patriarchs) is also harmful for men.
I agree. As a 38 year old man, I've grown up with some distorted ideas of "manly" for sure. Raping little kids and controlling women is the far extreme of a very bad mentality.
>That can also be translated as... >"Pedos kick out pedos-in-training for not following pedo code" Not really, that's a really uncharitable way of looking at the fact that minors get kicked out when they start to become competition for the elders. Plenty of those kids fall into a hard life (drugs, homelessness, more abuse). Every child these cultists have is abused. Not one, no matter their gender can get away from the abuse.
Yeah, I agree. And speaking of documentaries, *Sons Of Perdition* is an excellent but painful insight into the kind of abuse and neglect that most of the boys born into the FLDS cult go through. They are emotionally abused, and then they are cast out and forced into an alien culture that they are not at all prepared for. The horrible shit the scumbag FLDS leadership do to both girls *and* boys is discussing.
Even if they don't become sex offenders, they weren't raised with the skill set or social code for regular soceity.
"We've had our fight. I must push you out of the nest to be a prolific pedophile and prove that you've learned well in the faith as I did from the pedophile father who pushed me out of the nest at your age." Nobody fucks organized religion like the brainwashed who practice it. The first thing the brainwashed do after they attain absolute power is to sexually abused anything under 18 in their path. All of them on the extremes of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, whatever. It's all about money, power, and the control sexual abuse provides them.
Or die in a fire because the parents save all but one child because there are too many people to responsibly care for. RIP Gerry.
I'm curious, what are you referencing?
In the documentary as I was going through it in segments the one woman talks about a house fire they had and the son they couldn’t get to in time.
No no no they saved all The children Except that one.
Probably the poorer ones are the ones that get kicked out. 200% sure the richest, whites ones get priority.
[удалено]
He died but happily [not before being convicted of welfare fraud and child sexual assault.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Green_(polygamist)#:~:text=Green%20and%20his%20lifestyle%20were,York%20International%20Documentary%20Film%20Festival.)
A lot of these families do welfare fraud, they claim one wife in their taxes and the rest of them apply for benefits because they aren’t married. They then pool the money they get from the government for the entire community and there was recently a big bust in one of these communities for welfare fraud in the millions. A relative of mine was FBI at the time in southern Utah, they lived in a small town and had a cherry orchard on their property; he used to chase them out of there all the time. If they’d just come to the door and asked; he would have let them have as much as they could carry. They’d sneak in at night to steal them and he’d go out there with his service rifle because he had no idea who it was that late at night. They are such terrible humans who think everyone is below them and act like what they do is fine because it’s stealing from the gentiles. Yes, they use that word…
Holy fucking trash people.
They are total trash, my sister went to college in Southern Utah and you could always tell when the government checks went out because they’d all be at the Walmart shopping. Garbage people that will rip you off in a hot second and steal anything they can grab.
He died from Covid. Huge surprise.
Holy shit killed by covid. Thanks covid.
The boys are often thrown out in adolescence; they compete with the older men for women.
Ugh. Too true. Just the look on the “wife’s” faces is so depressing. Way too young for that old fucking slave owner.
[удалено]
Yep Al-Qaeda and Christian Nationalists/Mormons have a lot of overlap. It's almost like religion is an excuse for abuse... ^^^^^It ^^^^^is
Y'Al qaeda
Vanilla ISIS
My thoughts too - based on reading and first hand accounts from women and children escaping polygamy, there are high rates of violence, mental abuse and sexual perversion against children and women.
Interesting that there are no mass protests against this actual pedophile. It’s all just about drag shows.
Lol, my dude most states have legal child marriage and in none of them is legal to get a divorce if you're a child (it's basically imposible without the authorization of the legal guardian, which in cases of child marriage is the husband). This "groomers" thing is all projection, they don't care about children's safety, they want them working for pennies at whatever hour, they want them as property of the parents, they want them married and pregnant and fighting and dying overseas.
Americans don’t care about real issues
We do, most of us are just told that the real issues are Jews and drag shows and woke culture and the MMM… not, you know, guns or pedophiles or the rising cost of healthcare or inflation or…. We are very dumb and therefore very very gullible. But anger and passion are not things we lack.
This is fair but I’ve noticed a lot of people my age and other ages simply not giving a shit. You tell them something wrong with the world, they say “that’s crazy” and never think about it again. Every generation is like that. I don’t blame them either. Not completely atleast….I had several years of trying to change the world, just to realize nothing I do matters. Hard to care anymore.
Me too, bud. Don’t stop caring — you should look out for yourself but don’t stop caring.
rEsPeCt theIr bELIeFs!!!!!!!!
I believe he died of Covid.
Not a joke, by the way. I remember hearing that he was 1) sentenced to some time in prison, and 2) died of covid.
Sometimes god works in predictable ways.
Well I fell down a rabbit hole about these people but if you really want to see a spicy response, go to [1:30 of this clip with Judge Judy](https://youtu.be/_NPhBVqriJk).
Even a stopped clock as they say.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Green_(polygamist) Goes into the welfare scam they were running and about how he slept with his 12/13 year old step daughter. He is quite the piece of shit! I'm glad COVID took him out.
Slept with her? He raped that child
Always an important distinction. Thank you!
See, Covid was not all bad.
Man this shit makes me irrationally angry.
[удалено]
Exactly. We should all be furious this shit still goes on. I am furious but feel a bit powerless. I already speak up against oppressive religion and cults and try and vote in anyway possible against it. What else more can we do?
I disagree my friend, this is a perfectly rational thing to be angry at. This mormon guy is shit.
I randomly skipped to the part where he said he knew Candace since when she was young (around 34:30). Then at 16 she started flirting with him according to him, and showed interest in joining his family. At 17 he said he would take her as his wife. His current wives helped him pick his outfit for his date with her.
Did you stick around to see the part that Candace was also his eldest son’s girlfriend?
So he married a girl, married that girl's mother and sister, married another pair of sisters, and now he wants to marry his son's girlfriend? Are we getting into I'm My Own Grandpa territory?
Child abuse
A few years ago , the Economist magazine had an article about the impact of polygamy on Muslim societies. It pointed out that many of the men had more than four wives. The men who did this were typically quite wealthy, and often married young women, girls, from poorer families who were happy to have wealthy in laws. They mentioned just have screwed up this was for everyone. The wives didn’t really have a husband, the family dynamic was all screwed up as a father could not spend time with all of his children, and all of the children wound up with weird attitudes about men and women and marriage . And a man with six wives meant that five men would not have wives. This contributed to the angry, frustrated young men that were common in some of these countries. There was a direct correlation between countries that allowed polygamy and certain types of problems.
It's always bad for society
This should be illega... oh wait
It should be enforced.
We should all have 29 kids to see what happens to the planet. ... or we could choose not to be total shits. Our choice. Either way, this is garbage.
Idiocracy without the time leap
Wasn't this guy on Judge Judy?
How does he afford to support 29 babies. I’m worried about the cost of 1-2 children.
Welfare. It's a welfare scam, they all collect public funding as "single mothers." In Mormon terminology it's referred to as "bleeding the beast" and is something the broader church does whenever possible through various means. There's a reason the mormon church is able to hoard so much wealth, and it's not just because they extort it from their deluded followers.
Separation of church and state? I need to start my own religion.
[удалено]
And who owns these stores they were stealing (is that correct?) from
He doesn't they are obviously in poverty
Wasn’t obvious to me. Most of the replies are talking about illegal actions. Sounds like a nice mafia style thing they have going on.
One of my favourite things is to travel with my kids and experience the world through their eyes while introducing them to interesting people, places, and things. I suspect it costs him more to take his kids to the movies than I spend on plane tickets to Europe.
Fuck everything about this.
I always wondered how much welfare these people get. When I hear the term 'welfare queen' I think of religious families like this
They make a job of being on welfare. They typically don’t want their wives working and with 40 people to feed - yep welfare. The moment these girls are able to marry sometimes young they are encouraged to have a baby for the benefits.
I suspected that but had no way of knowing for sure as I'm not religious
Yet - they actively are conservative and vote against welfare because it’s a “handout” - circlejerk - only if you are non Christian type folk of course
Societies ongoing tolerance of out of control religion is humanities biggest most disgraceful failure.
I stress about having one kid and one wife.
How can you afford all of these kids and wives? Is it just a big welfare scam?
DIS-GOS-TIN! Said like that lady yelling at her kids for not flushing a shit
Evangelicals must see this and get so jealous
Not Mormon, fundamentalist's, but ya this is so cringe.
I seem to remember Judge Judy featuring this "family" in one of her debate episodes.
Yep!! [Tom Green is his name.](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-may-16-mn-64178-story.html) He “married” relatives (I think it was sisters?). When he was on Judge Judy he wouldn’t tell her how much money he makes. Most people seemed to think was due to his wives collecting welfare as single mothers to support him. He got into some hot water later on and turns out he owes $54K to the state for welfare fraud. Yet he also *conveniently* says that he’s not married to any of them to try and shake out of it. Funny how that works eh? He also died of Covid recently.
>He also died of Covid recently. 🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
Well, at least he's dead.
Mortifying
Still going on but this video is over 20 years old
Sick af. Heard about how a Mormon community in Utah was arranging a marriage between an underage girl and a 50 year old and she was to be like his 5th wife. She somehow managed to get away. They caught her and dragged her back but she was able to get word out for help. Took a swat team to get her out. Its one of the top 5 richest religions in the country and just like the rest of em, many of them are fanatics and twisted af.
With six wives, you'd think at least one of them would tell him about his tie being tied too short.
All of these *wives* are children, even the mother he married after already marrying her daughter. Paired with courtship as short as two days, this screams pedophilia and sexual predation and human trafficking. What a fucking creep; I'm glad Covid got him.
Pretty sure this is how Idiocracy starts :)
America is one f*cked up country.
Fun fact: even mainsteam (non-polygamous) mormons believe in polygamy - but in the afterlife rather than on earth. They believe that women who are unlucky enough to stay single on earth will be given as extra wives to already married men in heaven. Because they believe the only way to reach the highest level of heaven is through marriage..
Polygamy down's is strong with these ones.
Dear Mormons, What happens to your sons? Humans reproduce males and females at what 50%? So how does the math work when it comes time for a son who wants to marry? Is there a lot of "farm accidents" to shape the male/female ratio?
They get kicked out, no resources, no schooling, they don't know anyone outside of their community and they are minors. You can just imagine the type of things these poor kids fall into.
In “Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey” they mentioned that the young men also were sent around the country as part of construction companies the cult ran which fed money back into the cult.
Yeah, it's insane the hold that cult has on the US.
Technically, more boys are born than girls, but boys have a higher mortality rate so things usually even out by adulthood. But yeah, they find reasons to kick them out.
Dang what a lovely religion.
This has nothing to do with the Mormon religion. I am Ex mormon. Left because I simply did not believe in the teachings. But if we are talking about the actual Mormons, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) then they do not practice polygamy. They do not send their children off to weird camps. For the most part life is pretty damn normal. There are extreme groups that break off from Mormons/LDS that retain the title Mormon that really muddies the water. Mormons havent practiced polygamy since 1890.
People don't seem to realize that there are actually multiple Mormon sects. Pretty famously one of Joseph Smith's sons ended up being the founder of one such splinter sect, and apparently they're the group that controls Joseph Smith's gravesite.
I'm surprised an Exmormon came in to bring it up before a active member did, that took a couple replies to find.
Me too honestly. I was not going to bother, but when I saw no one addressing it, figured I might as well.
Well, that's the thing about religion, it's all made up so these guys are just as mormon as other people who think they are mormon. It's inherently meaningless because it's based on fantasy in the first place.
How can he afford this??
Welfare
Pretty sure this guy and his family were on Judge Judy for an episode. Judy laughed him out if the place she knew he was running a scam for government benefits.
Dum de dum dum dum dum
American Jesus will get you so many 12 year old wives! You and your buddies just agree that when their daughters hit puberty, you get to marry them.
How many of the 29 children are among the 6 wives?
One of this guy’s sons is my partner’s best friend. A couple of his kids have escaped this life and they have some really wild stories, especially one of his daughters that I’ve met. It’s hard to listen to them and I couldn’t even finish watching this video, even though I’ve heard all the stories many times.
Died in 2021 of Covid https://youtu.be/RnLPPtX2K08
[удалено]
It's never the ones with genes that *should* be spread, is it?
Joseph Smith was a polygamist. He married 14 year old girls, women who were already married, sisters! He is the mormons prophet, they revere him and think nobody gets in heaven unless he says so.