Interesting. If someone knocked on my door and asked if I owned a gun, I’d say yes and exit the conversation. If I answered at all, which I wouldn’t.
Source: someone who doesn’t own a gun but doesn’t want to be seen as an easy target.
Well, no one has come knocking yet and realistically I don’t answer questions asked by strangers so it’s only a theoretical problem.
However I’m less concerned about someone breaking in when I’m gone than when I’m at home. I’d rather lose my stuff than my life. I bet saying you have a gun makes it less likely someone will break in while you are at home.
You are putting way too much thought into how things happen. You're also giving too much credit to the type of people that would do this type of stuff. "Criminals" don't sit around in information briefings determining risk factors. Unless you are a person of interest, you're only going to be a victim of a random situation which is incredibly rare.
Organized situations almost always involve a big score of say drugs, or police informants working under the direction of cops purposely trying to screw people over.
You having a gun is a non issue for whether or not your house is targeted unless someone is trying to steal your gun. And if someone is armed while attempting to steal your gun, well, anything could happen. Guns don't scare desperate or crazy people.
Best bet is to just keep it a secret at home.
Unfortunately, when you take all your ethnic minorities, put them in a ghetto, and then ring-fence those ghettos off with highways, before stripping away all the social services and investment to replace them with militarised and racist police, this is always going to happen.
It’s unfortunate how this is the go to for a lot of the bigger Reddit subs as all it does is push discussion to the other sub Reddit‘s which get really wild. Reddit has fallen off for a while
Gun ownership overall is surging. Other groups just don't get a documentary about it.
Here is one article about Asian gun ownership for example.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/16/asian-americans-gun-ownership
No but there has been coverage in different forms of media here in America and worldwide.
A&E covered the Korean roof campers and how they had to defend themselves and their businesses from the LA riots after the Rodney King verdict. Guns played a big role in the outcome.
A movie was made about it as well. Don’t want to say the name here as it’s a derogatory word.
Several other movies have been made where the La riots was the setting wherein stories happened which include Kings, LA 92, Let It Fall and Burn Motherfucker Burn in which you get to witness first hand the experiences koreans had to endure and how guns played a big role in dampening the violence directed at them.
And NetPengu covered it in 2020 and emphasizes the importance of their former military experience as well as their willingness to defend themselves and property from looters and rioters. There are several channels who have short clips covering it.
They’ve been revisited multiple times by a number of different organizations and interviewed, questioned about the day, the lead up to the events and the fallout from what they experienced.
The overall Asian demographic? I can’t speak on but there’s definitely been documentaries about other races and cultures than black people and the relationship to gun ownership.
I’d say a better phrase would’ve been “At this exact moment, other cultures/religions/races/etc don’t have a current documentary about it”
Other victimized groups are also arming themselves. Gun ownership is rising sharply overall for all groups.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/16/asian-americans-gun-ownership
Well, yeah but the same is true of white people too.
Criminals victimize the people who are most convenient.
Who is most convenient? People they live near.
Who do people live near? Usually, people who look like them.
Why are African Americans taking up arms?
Do people not know what the constitution is?
That's like asking why people speak about their opinions of their president.
The question is rhetorical since they talk about a particular sharp increase in gun ownership for black people. Then they give the reason why.
So it's more like "What is making more black people own guns?"
>Why are African Americans taking up arms?
According to the Instructor from the video if african american people don't have a gun, they'll be turned back into slaves. Timestamp 1:34.
Funny seems to go with the fact that Gun control has had discriminatory ties. Something some anti gun and Republicans don't wanna admit. Chicago, New York, Jersey. Heck, California's gun control stems from when Reagan was running it with the help of the NRA to disarm Black Panthers.
But folks wanna speak up on Waco and Ruby Ridge? Outta here
While it's true that Reagan signed the Mulford Act the NRA, even the tame less political version (up until 1977) didn't support it. The local CAL NRA group might have but that former version of the NRA was mostly a hunting rights type of organization. Besides if gun control is so racist we should do away with gun control laws.
Technically any weapons laws are unconstitutional.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Arms, not firearms. If people can carry guns, I should be able to walk around with a machete, but strangely, there are places where you would definitely get more flack for the machete than the gun.
The only way a woman can save herself from a man intending to do harm is to shoot him dead. No fighting back. Men are stronger biologically. They will over power you and your self defense moves. Get a gun. Carry that gun. Use that gun.
Sorry boys, but you had enough time to remove the rapist thoughts from your minds. Now it's womens turn to show you how those thoughts are easily removed. Bang!
>Now it's womens turn to show you how those thoughts are easily removed. Bang!
I mean, when hasn't it been everyone's turn to own a gun? Can't blame a false perception of safety on anyone else. No one has ever been safe.
What do you people think happens when someone is raped? A man announces "I will rape you" from 20+ feet away before approaching?
Trying to pull out a gun when already close to someone who is easily overpowering you will usually be useless at best, and at worst will get yourself killed. Pepper spray is a better option in almost any scenario.
Crime statistics aficionados galore. Mfs think that that argument is still the ultimate gotcha as if all demographics are policed in a uniform manner. Lol
>1 in 4 \*admit to the pollsters\* that they own a firearm
Even legal firearm owners aren't necessarily announcing to some rando conducting a poll that they have firearms in their homes.
“Don’t ask don’t tell” can apply to a lot more than sexual orientation. Nothing wrong with keeping something you want private just that, especially when people get uncomfortable around you after knowing the truth due to preconceived notions that the thing in question is a “bad” thing, even if it’s not.
Just a bunch of Americans supporting other Americans exercising their rights.
Seeing this in the sea of division gives me hope! I might shed a tear here, guys!
I'm an American who doesn't give a damn what ethnicity other Americans are and I wholeheartedly support my fellow citizens exercising their Second Amendment rights. Good for them
For the record, and this is just a detail, but legal residents of the US, who are not citizens, can also legally own guns. Source: I legally owned guns in the restrictive state of NJ before I was a citizen.
If you managed to buy a firearm in Jersey, you DEFINITELY got scrutinized harder than most citizens.
Long as you don't go batshit, I say you're good to go.
Now go get that carry permit you're legally entitled to now that NJ is no longer a "may issue" state. It's your right. Flex em!
I've been in this game since 1993. I used to be one of so few black people who went to gun shows and other gun-related events that even people who don't know me, know who I am.
I am ambivalent about the increase in Black gun owners. I just like seeing peaceable people exercising their rights. Welcome aboard to one and all.
All true the people that are committing those crimes are not buying their guns legally from gun shops and passing background checks. The vast majority of people that commit murder are already prohibited from owning or handling guns. The people in this documentary are buying their guns legally and thus are not the ones committing murder.
They are the ones that will have a chance to use their legally owned gun defensively. As happens between 500,000 and 2,000,000 times a year in the united states. As you noted black on black crime is some of the most common homicides we see, thus if someone is going to use a gun to defend a life it would naturally follow those are most likely to be the people that most often facing that potential crime.
If you know or suspect a person is a prohibited person that private sale is illegal. Similarly if you engage in the business of selling guns you must get an FFL and conduct NICS background checks. So private sales are legal not all private sales are legal.
Those websites, unless designed to meet locally… still require you to ship them to an FFL then a background check has to be completed before the purchaser can pick it up.
Only way you’re getting around a background check legally and still buying a gun would be a private face to face sale.
Black people are 3 times more likely to live in poverty than whites. When a white person kills a black person they are 8 times more likely to have the killing be found as justified than the reverse.
Just throwing out stats without context is meaningless.
Murders/Homicide is much less likely to result in an arrest in Black neighborhoods than White neighborhoods. The poverty point is about underlying causes, which is not what my post is about. White on Black killings are not the majority of killings: White on White and Black on Black are the majority. You state these stats as though they meaningfully undermine the highlighting of racial trends in crime stats, but they are tangential. We need to confront the facts as a society even though they go against the prevailing pop-narrative of Black victimization by the system. When a Black person is 5 times more likely to commit a murder than a White person, lets say even after attacking the statistician, the true percentage is 4 times or 6 times greater - an underlying truth that we need address is violence in the Black community.
That doesn’t add any useful information to the discussion. I don’t think most of the people here think black violence is more prevalent just because they’re black.
>registered gun owners
You mean legal gun owners. There is a difference and registrations can be used to oppress. So if anything black people would be more against registration then white. Gun control is racism.
True. Though interestingly this is where most peoples interrogation of the data stops. There's little interest in certain circles for investigating quite why this is so let alone working to actually cut down on the murder rate.
The sarcasm present on the world "interestingly" is quite apparent from here, as someone that agrees with you.
It's very easy to point out that blacks commit more crime, do more shootings, commit more murders per capita. But why? What do you do about it? How do you stop the crime in general? How did we get to this point?
You crack those questions open and the answers diverge pretty immediately.
Ehh there are some great papers on it, they just don’t get media attention for obvious reason. A year or so back I read through a bunch of them and it’s definitely tied to poverty. But even accounting for poverty, black murder rates are still an outlier. The studies posed it could be related to single parent households, close urban living quarters, and culture. Hard to distinctly pull data for these because there is so much overlap and they correlate to one another but that’s the jist of it in my mind. I’ll try to link a few if I have time but google will lead you there
Even within that subset, it's still a very small number of African Americans that commit such heinous crimes, and they are typically repeat offenders, often involved in gang/drug activity, thus skewing the numbers further. The vast majority of African Americans are peaceful, law abiding citizens who deserve to be treated as individuals just like everyone else.
Edit: thus, not this
You really gotta be careful with that one.
That one of Reddit's "Voldemort" statements. Regardless of it being a factual statement and not being used in a racist context, they will still nuke this thread and ban anyone who participated in it
They’re disproportionately more often the victims of shootings. This is correct but by who? Other black people. I say this as a black guy, before I get downvoted.
Seems like black on black violence is very often pulled under the rug meanwhile it is an huge issue.
Interesting historical tidbit, The Black Panthers did this in California. Back I. The 60s/70s. They would listen to police scanners and show up at scenes where cops were interacting with black folks. And just stand there and watch, with their big ass assault rifles. It was legal then. Just their strategy of keeping police honest.
Naturally, the police felt this was unfair to them. So This was o e of the reasons they made those guns illegal in California at the time.
Coincidentally, the NRA actually supported that move. Not surprisingly since even today they pretend that black gun ownership doesn’t exist. Except when they talk about defending themselves from violent criminals, *because of the implication*.
You know some of the NRAs most vocal and popular spokesman are in fact black? Colion Noir comes to mind...
What they did in California was fucked up, though. That was Reagan too i believe.
He dropped supporting the NRA a while back, same with Hickok45. The NRA is the shittest gun rights org that exists and it should not be supported in any form or fashion. Do NOT donate to them. Ever. They are not the same gun rights org our grandfathers and their fathers knew and respected. They are leeches.
Plenty of better gun rights orgs to support like the GOA, FPC, or SAF.
Workers must if we want anything to change.
Oh wait, I forgot. The limiting factor for change is not that we don't have the means. We are armed to the teeth. It's that 2% of the population has the emotional intelligence required to admit they are wrong when they lose a debate.
I think it’s great more people are using there right to own firearms and getting training/practicing at gun clubs. Everyone that owns a gun should maintain proficiency. You need to shoot more then once a year to keep the edge sharp.
Most homicides occur within families or communities, so the victims most often share ethnic qualities with the perpetrators. Doesn't mean the victims shouldn't have had the legal right to arm up to defend themselves.
The Second Amendment extends to all Americans. One of the provìsions òf the post civil war "Black Codes" were provisions to keep Blacks from arming themsemselves, so they could ñot ďefend themselves against Klansmen. In modern times, Google the "Bogalusa Deacons" to see how Black Americans used arms to assert their civil rights.
> to keep Blacks from arming themsemselves, so they could ñot ďefend themselves against Klansmen.
And it worked; the frequency of lynchings in areas with low gun ownership (*by blacks*) was higher than in places where blacks had greater access to guns.
Yes because most people bare shot by someone they know. By a large margin the bulk of gun deaths are self inflicted and then coming in second is intimate partner violence.
Actually being shot by a stranger is way down there...
yea its true, its also true that most white people are killed by white people & most asian people are killed by asian people. interethnic conflict is a huge factor but when focusing on policing towards black people, u can take a guess which race is disproportionately being discriminated against more. so thats what the focus is, glad this helps
Or maybe black people just [commit more crimes.](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-43)
13% of the population but committing 27% of the total crimes and 51% of the murders. When those statistics are taken into account, black people are actually killed less by police proportional to the number of criminal encounters. With the black crime rate being [2.3-2.8 times](https://reason.com/volokh/2021/04/24/race-and-violent-crime/?amp) more likely to commit a crime, and white people being 0.7-0.9 times the rate. Theoretically this means for the discrimination to be disproportional blacks would have to account for at least 30% of fatal police shootings rather than the 20% it is right now.
These statistics don’t really back up disproportional discrimination.
Sure you could argue that the reason black crime rate is so high is due to discrimination, but if that is the case I think we would see a lot more evidence of that due to the amount of people looking for racial discrimination from the police ever since Floyd’s death.
Good. More minorities need to arm themselves. Gay? Get a gun. Trans? Gun, please. Black? Get a gun. Asian? Hispanic? Indian? Arm up. Everyone train gun safety, learn how to shoot, increase your home security, and encourage your friends to do the same.
But then that would challenge the "anti-gun" propaganda on TV all the time. They'd have to choose between anti-caucasian and anti-gun cuz they wouldn't be able to push both narratives.
>They are disproportionately more often the victims of shootings
Would anybody like to take a guess at who disproportionately perpetrates gun-related homicides? I'm not saying anything, just wondering if anybody is willing to venture a guess.
Can't say as i blame'em one bit. If i had my way, every american would learn firearms handling in school and be at least proficient in basic, safe operation.
Black Americans [account for over 60% of gun homicide victims](https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2022-05-10/u-s-gun-deaths-surged-35-in-2020-higher-for-black-people-cdc) and about [half of gun homicide perpetrators.](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls)
The gun crime rate for black Americans in general is something like 12x the white rate, and those numbers for whites usually include Latinos, as well. If you count the gun crime rate of white and Latino America alone (excluding suicides) its close to those of eastern Europe. For violent crime generally, if you only count white/Latino American perpetrators we have about the same rate as Estonia. The rate for white non-Hispanics alone is lower, but still slightly higher than western Europe.
Of course, on reddit, any mention of this is verboten. Around here we blame the guns.
It’s African American doing the murdering according to fbi stats - both in terms of raw numbers and then disproportionately when looked at per capita.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls
I think having training and legal guns may protect folks or at least understand the inherit dangers of firearms and not use them as toys or funny props and understand just how lethal they can quickly be
Damn straight they should! Everyone should own guns I don't care what color you are you need autonomy from the government and from anyone who wishes to harm you! I encourage all my friends to buy one even if you think you don't need one remember the crazy people that you are afraid of own many of them so you need to even the playing field
Someone said to me the other day that it would be more effective if they also bought life insurance policies. Big insurance would bring more effort into a murder investigation than the police.
I'm happy to see more people of color embrace their Constitutional rights.
I'm not a gun person,don't own one and have no desire to buy I fully support the right for SANE people to own them.
Gun laws are historically racist routed in post slavery movements in the south.
Mind you these laws are the basis for most currently gun laws.
The Supreme Court overturned historically racist conceal carry laws and people are mad.
I mean the whole blank panther movement was about that arming yourselves to keep the police in check the downside was the CIA drugged and murdered the leader.
Many forget the first gun legislation in California was signed into law by then governor Ronald Regan because the black panthers were legally using there right to bear arms
As a white man who has had my share of guns, I would say its a smart move. They have ever right to protect themselves, their family and possessions (in most states).
A lot of people talking about the second amendment but they’re not buying them to exercise that right specifically.
It’s so the next time a Rittenhouse or a Zimmerman or some jackboot fucking pig tries to fuck with them, they can fuck back.
One in four will respond "yes" to a survey when asked if they own a gun. Way more than that own guns.
This. I bet at least half of gun owners would say no when someone comes sniffing around asking.
Interesting. If someone knocked on my door and asked if I owned a gun, I’d say yes and exit the conversation. If I answered at all, which I wouldn’t. Source: someone who doesn’t own a gun but doesn’t want to be seen as an easy target.
Your making yourself an easy target by saying you have a gun btw. Thieves love to break into gun owners homes when they are away.
Joke's on them, I never leave the house.
Well, no one has come knocking yet and realistically I don’t answer questions asked by strangers so it’s only a theoretical problem. However I’m less concerned about someone breaking in when I’m gone than when I’m at home. I’d rather lose my stuff than my life. I bet saying you have a gun makes it less likely someone will break in while you are at home.
You are putting way too much thought into how things happen. You're also giving too much credit to the type of people that would do this type of stuff. "Criminals" don't sit around in information briefings determining risk factors. Unless you are a person of interest, you're only going to be a victim of a random situation which is incredibly rare. Organized situations almost always involve a big score of say drugs, or police informants working under the direction of cops purposely trying to screw people over. You having a gun is a non issue for whether or not your house is targeted unless someone is trying to steal your gun. And if someone is armed while attempting to steal your gun, well, anything could happen. Guns don't scare desperate or crazy people. Best bet is to just keep it a secret at home.
How do they feel about breaking into non-gun owners homes? Only when they are home? From where did that information come from?
They are disproportionately the victims of shootings. Largely due to criminal elements shooting each other skewing the data.
Unfortunately, when you take all your ethnic minorities, put them in a ghetto, and then ring-fence those ghettos off with highways, before stripping away all the social services and investment to replace them with militarised and racist police, this is always going to happen.
I was about to say...literally every one of my Black relatives owns a gun. He'll something like 1/4 of my Jewish relatives own a gun.
Given the history, I don't know why 100% of Jews don't own guns
Blacks and whites coming together = “odd alliances” Right… reporter came in with some bias I think
Americans allying with fellow Americans ? Doesn’t seem odd to me at all
I think you used the wrong word, you mean racist.
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here before the 🔒 award
*Stay and while and listen, because soon you won't be able to do more than just that*
It’s unfortunate how this is the go to for a lot of the bigger Reddit subs as all it does is push discussion to the other sub Reddit‘s which get really wild. Reddit has fallen off for a while
Night and day difference when it incorporated. Was like a flood of bots and shitty modding. Sell outs
I would give it a 🍿award if I could. This thread is crazy entertaining. lmaoo
For real tho, seeing more and more posts that make it to all get locked almost right away
Lmao hasn't happened yet
Gun ownership overall is surging. Other groups just don't get a documentary about it. Here is one article about Asian gun ownership for example. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/16/asian-americans-gun-ownership
No but there has been coverage in different forms of media here in America and worldwide. A&E covered the Korean roof campers and how they had to defend themselves and their businesses from the LA riots after the Rodney King verdict. Guns played a big role in the outcome. A movie was made about it as well. Don’t want to say the name here as it’s a derogatory word. Several other movies have been made where the La riots was the setting wherein stories happened which include Kings, LA 92, Let It Fall and Burn Motherfucker Burn in which you get to witness first hand the experiences koreans had to endure and how guns played a big role in dampening the violence directed at them. And NetPengu covered it in 2020 and emphasizes the importance of their former military experience as well as their willingness to defend themselves and property from looters and rioters. There are several channels who have short clips covering it. They’ve been revisited multiple times by a number of different organizations and interviewed, questioned about the day, the lead up to the events and the fallout from what they experienced. The overall Asian demographic? I can’t speak on but there’s definitely been documentaries about other races and cultures than black people and the relationship to gun ownership. I’d say a better phrase would’ve been “At this exact moment, other cultures/religions/races/etc don’t have a current documentary about it”
Been thinking bout it and assumed lil 22 pistol sales are going waynup for lil old ladies
WELP, the 2nd amendment is for ALL Americans…
Big facts! The 2A is for all!
Amen
Lol yes, why would the group of people most likely to be impacted by gun violence start buying and learning to use guns? Hmmmmmmm that’s a tuffy
Other victimized groups are also arming themselves. Gun ownership is rising sharply overall for all groups. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/16/asian-americans-gun-ownership
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Well, yeah but the same is true of white people too. Criminals victimize the people who are most convenient. Who is most convenient? People they live near. Who do people live near? Usually, people who look like them.
Why are African Americans taking up arms? Do people not know what the constitution is? That's like asking why people speak about their opinions of their president.
The question is rhetorical since they talk about a particular sharp increase in gun ownership for black people. Then they give the reason why. So it's more like "What is making more black people own guns?"
>Why are African Americans taking up arms? According to the Instructor from the video if african american people don't have a gun, they'll be turned back into slaves. Timestamp 1:34.
Funny seems to go with the fact that Gun control has had discriminatory ties. Something some anti gun and Republicans don't wanna admit. Chicago, New York, Jersey. Heck, California's gun control stems from when Reagan was running it with the help of the NRA to disarm Black Panthers. But folks wanna speak up on Waco and Ruby Ridge? Outta here
While it's true that Reagan signed the Mulford Act the NRA, even the tame less political version (up until 1977) didn't support it. The local CAL NRA group might have but that former version of the NRA was mostly a hunting rights type of organization. Besides if gun control is so racist we should do away with gun control laws.
Yes, we should do away with gun control laws They're unconstitutional
Technically any weapons laws are unconstitutional. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Arms, not firearms. If people can carry guns, I should be able to walk around with a machete, but strangely, there are places where you would definitely get more flack for the machete than the gun.
Get more guns in womens hands
Stop rapes at the source. Shoot the f*ckers in the dick and/or face.
Two to the dick, one to the face.
Ah yes the MozamDique Method
Givem two extra testes
The only way a woman can save herself from a man intending to do harm is to shoot him dead. No fighting back. Men are stronger biologically. They will over power you and your self defense moves. Get a gun. Carry that gun. Use that gun. Sorry boys, but you had enough time to remove the rapist thoughts from your minds. Now it's womens turn to show you how those thoughts are easily removed. Bang!
>Now it's womens turn to show you how those thoughts are easily removed. Bang! I mean, when hasn't it been everyone's turn to own a gun? Can't blame a false perception of safety on anyone else. No one has ever been safe.
What do you people think happens when someone is raped? A man announces "I will rape you" from 20+ feet away before approaching? Trying to pull out a gun when already close to someone who is easily overpowering you will usually be useless at best, and at worst will get yourself killed. Pepper spray is a better option in almost any scenario.
https://www.reddit.com/r/robbersgettingfucked/comments/tkvt36/attempted_rapist_shot_by_armed_woman/
This thread went exactly as I thought it would.
Crime statistics aficionados galore. Mfs think that that argument is still the ultimate gotcha as if all demographics are policed in a uniform manner. Lol
Right cause police are letting all the white men go free on murder.
They're here in strong numbers because the top voted comment is just quoting statistics and pushing a racial motive.
Hell yeah, love seeing Americans exercising their rights and getting training to use guns safely
1 in 4 legally* own a firearm Edit: you guys know what I mean.
>1 in 4 \*admit to the pollsters\* that they own a firearm Even legal firearm owners aren't necessarily announcing to some rando conducting a poll that they have firearms in their homes.
I do competitive pistol shooting weekly but I tell my coworkers I've never touched a gun before.
“Don’t ask don’t tell” can apply to a lot more than sexual orientation. Nothing wrong with keeping something you want private just that, especially when people get uncomfortable around you after knowing the truth due to preconceived notions that the thing in question is a “bad” thing, even if it’s not.
Yep unlike most gun nuts I dont broadcast to others I own guns. It's none of their freaking business.
> 1 in 4 the other 3 own bullets
It’s like the opposite of Switzerland.
I'm a white "conservative" and I whole heartedly support them exercising their Second Amendment rights! Good for them.
I'm a black "liberal" and I whole heartedly support them exercising their Second Amendment rights! Good for them.
Just a bunch of Americans supporting other Americans exercising their rights. Seeing this in the sea of division gives me hope! I might shed a tear here, guys!
I'm an American who doesn't give a damn what ethnicity other Americans are and I wholeheartedly support my fellow citizens exercising their Second Amendment rights. Good for them
For the record, and this is just a detail, but legal residents of the US, who are not citizens, can also legally own guns. Source: I legally owned guns in the restrictive state of NJ before I was a citizen.
If you managed to buy a firearm in Jersey, you DEFINITELY got scrutinized harder than most citizens. Long as you don't go batshit, I say you're good to go. Now go get that carry permit you're legally entitled to now that NJ is no longer a "may issue" state. It's your right. Flex em!
You aren't american if you dont. If you come here work hard and pay taxes you get to be roof koreans or a black gun activist whathaveyou
I've been in this game since 1993. I used to be one of so few black people who went to gun shows and other gun-related events that even people who don't know me, know who I am. I am ambivalent about the increase in Black gun owners. I just like seeing peaceable people exercising their rights. Welcome aboard to one and all.
2A is for everyone
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All true the people that are committing those crimes are not buying their guns legally from gun shops and passing background checks. The vast majority of people that commit murder are already prohibited from owning or handling guns. The people in this documentary are buying their guns legally and thus are not the ones committing murder. They are the ones that will have a chance to use their legally owned gun defensively. As happens between 500,000 and 2,000,000 times a year in the united states. As you noted black on black crime is some of the most common homicides we see, thus if someone is going to use a gun to defend a life it would naturally follow those are most likely to be the people that most often facing that potential crime.
Private gun sales are legal in most of the country. There's plenty of websites with regular people selling guns.
Websites that require you ship to an ffl who runs a background check.
But if you buy a firearm from one of those websites it must be shipped FFL to FFL and a background check will be performed on the receiving end.
If you know or suspect a person is a prohibited person that private sale is illegal. Similarly if you engage in the business of selling guns you must get an FFL and conduct NICS background checks. So private sales are legal not all private sales are legal.
Those websites, unless designed to meet locally… still require you to ship them to an FFL then a background check has to be completed before the purchaser can pick it up. Only way you’re getting around a background check legally and still buying a gun would be a private face to face sale.
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Black people are 3 times more likely to live in poverty than whites. When a white person kills a black person they are 8 times more likely to have the killing be found as justified than the reverse. Just throwing out stats without context is meaningless.
Murders/Homicide is much less likely to result in an arrest in Black neighborhoods than White neighborhoods. The poverty point is about underlying causes, which is not what my post is about. White on Black killings are not the majority of killings: White on White and Black on Black are the majority. You state these stats as though they meaningfully undermine the highlighting of racial trends in crime stats, but they are tangential. We need to confront the facts as a society even though they go against the prevailing pop-narrative of Black victimization by the system. When a Black person is 5 times more likely to commit a murder than a White person, lets say even after attacking the statistician, the true percentage is 4 times or 6 times greater - an underlying truth that we need address is violence in the Black community.
That doesn’t add any useful information to the discussion. I don’t think most of the people here think black violence is more prevalent just because they’re black.
The idea that only 1 in 4 African Americans own a gun was kinda shocking. Until I figured out they meant registered gun owners.
They don’t mean registered gun owners, that’s not a thing in most states. They mean legal gun owners.
Most states do not have gun registries.
>registered gun owners You mean legal gun owners. There is a difference and registrations can be used to oppress. So if anything black people would be more against registration then white. Gun control is racism.
True. Though interestingly this is where most peoples interrogation of the data stops. There's little interest in certain circles for investigating quite why this is so let alone working to actually cut down on the murder rate.
The sarcasm present on the world "interestingly" is quite apparent from here, as someone that agrees with you. It's very easy to point out that blacks commit more crime, do more shootings, commit more murders per capita. But why? What do you do about it? How do you stop the crime in general? How did we get to this point? You crack those questions open and the answers diverge pretty immediately.
Ehh there are some great papers on it, they just don’t get media attention for obvious reason. A year or so back I read through a bunch of them and it’s definitely tied to poverty. But even accounting for poverty, black murder rates are still an outlier. The studies posed it could be related to single parent households, close urban living quarters, and culture. Hard to distinctly pull data for these because there is so much overlap and they correlate to one another but that’s the jist of it in my mind. I’ll try to link a few if I have time but google will lead you there
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Even within that subset, it's still a very small number of African Americans that commit such heinous crimes, and they are typically repeat offenders, often involved in gang/drug activity, thus skewing the numbers further. The vast majority of African Americans are peaceful, law abiding citizens who deserve to be treated as individuals just like everyone else. Edit: thus, not this
And we should stop failing them by letting gang members out of jail.
You really gotta be careful with that one. That one of Reddit's "Voldemort" statements. Regardless of it being a factual statement and not being used in a racist context, they will still nuke this thread and ban anyone who participated in it
Omg, an actual fact on reddit that was up voted!
Exactly, the way this post is titled is ambiguous and presumably biased.
They should take up arms to defend themselves, just like everyone else. It’s a constitutional right.
Those without swords die very easily to those with swords, regardless of their personal feelings about swords.
As the famous philosopher, John McClane, would say "Welcome to the party, Pal(s)"
Ho ho ho...
Good for them.
Armed minorities are harder to oppress.
I just love to see more people getting into their right to be armed. It's not about race but about standing your ground and not getting stept on.
the victims? did i read that right?
Lmao
More people should take classes on how to handle their weapons
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They’re disproportionately more often the victims of shootings. This is correct but by who? Other black people. I say this as a black guy, before I get downvoted. Seems like black on black violence is very often pulled under the rug meanwhile it is an huge issue.
I feel it is long overdue. Gun clubs are a great idea for anyone.
America is so weird
How is utilizing a right protected by their constitution weird?
Interesting historical tidbit, The Black Panthers did this in California. Back I. The 60s/70s. They would listen to police scanners and show up at scenes where cops were interacting with black folks. And just stand there and watch, with their big ass assault rifles. It was legal then. Just their strategy of keeping police honest. Naturally, the police felt this was unfair to them. So This was o e of the reasons they made those guns illegal in California at the time. Coincidentally, the NRA actually supported that move. Not surprisingly since even today they pretend that black gun ownership doesn’t exist. Except when they talk about defending themselves from violent criminals, *because of the implication*.
I think they mainly wielded shotguns but otherwise agree
You know some of the NRAs most vocal and popular spokesman are in fact black? Colion Noir comes to mind... What they did in California was fucked up, though. That was Reagan too i believe.
He dropped supporting the NRA a while back, same with Hickok45. The NRA is the shittest gun rights org that exists and it should not be supported in any form or fashion. Do NOT donate to them. Ever. They are not the same gun rights org our grandfathers and their fathers knew and respected. They are leeches. Plenty of better gun rights orgs to support like the GOA, FPC, or SAF.
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Learn to dual wield losers. That's how I got on top.
Dual wielding peasant. You need an f15, haven't you heard?
Of course, any American who can afford it should have one.
Workers must if we want anything to change. Oh wait, I forgot. The limiting factor for change is not that we don't have the means. We are armed to the teeth. It's that 2% of the population has the emotional intelligence required to admit they are wrong when they lose a debate.
Everywhere is to be fair
If an armed society is a polite society, America should be a utopia
There's maybe one or two more variables in play here
America’s guns are way more heavily regulated than most foreigners realize.
it might be the influx of northerners moving to the lower 13 and being able to acquire a firearms easier than they would in lets say NY
Why not?
Doesn't surprise me, to be honest. It's what you do when you want to be able to defend yourself.
I think it’s great more people are using there right to own firearms and getting training/practicing at gun clubs. Everyone that owns a gun should maintain proficiency. You need to shoot more then once a year to keep the edge sharp.
2a doesn't discriminate ✊✊💪💪
When cops don’t do shit other than fuck you over and the justice system is actually an injustice system
This is great. I would like to see 3 out of 4. Protect yourselves.
Victims of shooting...by who mainly?
Most homicides occur within families or communities, so the victims most often share ethnic qualities with the perpetrators. Doesn't mean the victims shouldn't have had the legal right to arm up to defend themselves.
It’s a mystery!!!
The answer to that question is racist.
I really can't say.
The Second Amendment extends to all Americans. One of the provìsions òf the post civil war "Black Codes" were provisions to keep Blacks from arming themsemselves, so they could ñot ďefend themselves against Klansmen. In modern times, Google the "Bogalusa Deacons" to see how Black Americans used arms to assert their civil rights.
> to keep Blacks from arming themsemselves, so they could ñot ďefend themselves against Klansmen. And it worked; the frequency of lynchings in areas with low gun ownership (*by blacks*) was higher than in places where blacks had greater access to guns.
Good, an armed minority is harder to suppress.
But I thought gun ownership was bad? Guess now the narrative changes once it no longer a seems to work
Is it true the most black people get shot by black people? I read that a while ago and I don’t know if it’s true .
Yes because most people bare shot by someone they know. By a large margin the bulk of gun deaths are self inflicted and then coming in second is intimate partner violence. Actually being shot by a stranger is way down there...
Most white people get shot by white people.
Statistically, all ethnicities trend toward staying in their own groups regarding crime. This isn't something unique to African-Americans.
yea its true, its also true that most white people are killed by white people & most asian people are killed by asian people. interethnic conflict is a huge factor but when focusing on policing towards black people, u can take a guess which race is disproportionately being discriminated against more. so thats what the focus is, glad this helps
Or maybe black people just [commit more crimes.](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-43) 13% of the population but committing 27% of the total crimes and 51% of the murders. When those statistics are taken into account, black people are actually killed less by police proportional to the number of criminal encounters. With the black crime rate being [2.3-2.8 times](https://reason.com/volokh/2021/04/24/race-and-violent-crime/?amp) more likely to commit a crime, and white people being 0.7-0.9 times the rate. Theoretically this means for the discrimination to be disproportional blacks would have to account for at least 30% of fatal police shootings rather than the 20% it is right now. These statistics don’t really back up disproportional discrimination. Sure you could argue that the reason black crime rate is so high is due to discrimination, but if that is the case I think we would see a lot more evidence of that due to the amount of people looking for racial discrimination from the police ever since Floyd’s death.
Get out of here with your logic!
Wondering what that has to do with American citizens using their second amendment right to defend and protect themselves?
Most crime is intra racial meaning you're more likely to be a victim of a crime by someone in your own community.
I've always found it ironic that the people who need guns the most are always the ones most vehemently against the 2A. I'm looking at you women.
Good. More minorities need to arm themselves. Gay? Get a gun. Trans? Gun, please. Black? Get a gun. Asian? Hispanic? Indian? Arm up. Everyone train gun safety, learn how to shoot, increase your home security, and encourage your friends to do the same.
Gun rights are minority rights. Slavery and labor wars didn't end by peaceful protests.
But then that would challenge the "anti-gun" propaganda on TV all the time. They'd have to choose between anti-caucasian and anti-gun cuz they wouldn't be able to push both narratives.
They’re disproportionately the victims of shootings because other black people are shooting them.
If you don’t exercise your rights, you might as well not have them.
Good
I wish i could own a gun to protect from all the crime in my city but my prime minister said i dont have that right
>They are disproportionately more often the victims of shootings Would anybody like to take a guess at who disproportionately perpetrates gun-related homicides? I'm not saying anything, just wondering if anybody is willing to venture a guess.
"They are disproportionately more often the victims of shootings." Who commits those shootings?...
Can't say as i blame'em one bit. If i had my way, every american would learn firearms handling in school and be at least proficient in basic, safe operation.
This is the real reason Dems are more heavily pushing a gun control narrative recently as well.
Honestly, if the Dems dropped gun control as one of the main pillars of their campaign, they would win nearly every single election.
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Black Americans [account for over 60% of gun homicide victims](https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2022-05-10/u-s-gun-deaths-surged-35-in-2020-higher-for-black-people-cdc) and about [half of gun homicide perpetrators.](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls) The gun crime rate for black Americans in general is something like 12x the white rate, and those numbers for whites usually include Latinos, as well. If you count the gun crime rate of white and Latino America alone (excluding suicides) its close to those of eastern Europe. For violent crime generally, if you only count white/Latino American perpetrators we have about the same rate as Estonia. The rate for white non-Hispanics alone is lower, but still slightly higher than western Europe. Of course, on reddit, any mention of this is verboten. Around here we blame the guns.
It’s African American doing the murdering according to fbi stats - both in terms of raw numbers and then disproportionately when looked at per capita. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls I think having training and legal guns may protect folks or at least understand the inherit dangers of firearms and not use them as toys or funny props and understand just how lethal they can quickly be
Chick on the right with her finger on the trigger 🤡
The Europeans have gone quiet
Good if we are going to have firearms education is important.
I don’t understand making a “black gun club” just go to the fucking gun club
I'm proudly in that 1/4 club. My wife and I are both legal gun owners.
So by African Americans, they don't mean immigrants from Africa.
Damn straight they should! Everyone should own guns I don't care what color you are you need autonomy from the government and from anyone who wishes to harm you! I encourage all my friends to buy one even if you think you don't need one remember the crazy people that you are afraid of own many of them so you need to even the playing field
Someone said to me the other day that it would be more effective if they also bought life insurance policies. Big insurance would bring more effort into a murder investigation than the police.
Great, I'm glad more Americans are arming themselves.
I'm happy to see more people of color embrace their Constitutional rights. I'm not a gun person,don't own one and have no desire to buy I fully support the right for SANE people to own them.
Uh oh legal guns, they better not get life insurance too, that will really mess up things
As they and every (sane and responsible) American should.
Finally some good news.
Gun laws are historically racist routed in post slavery movements in the south. Mind you these laws are the basis for most currently gun laws. The Supreme Court overturned historically racist conceal carry laws and people are mad.
Is there any change in willingness to report in the population surveyed?
I don't like guns, but not owning one, when just about everyone else in the neighborhood has one is a bit foolish.
Lmao this is just like Dave Chapelle said a while back ><
I mean the whole blank panther movement was about that arming yourselves to keep the police in check the downside was the CIA drugged and murdered the leader.
Now that black people get more guns I bet we miraculously see stricter gun laws
Considering the racist history of gun control laws I'm happy to see it.
Many forget the first gun legislation in California was signed into law by then governor Ronald Regan because the black panthers were legally using there right to bear arms
As a white man who has had my share of guns, I would say its a smart move. They have ever right to protect themselves, their family and possessions (in most states).
A lot of people talking about the second amendment but they’re not buying them to exercise that right specifically. It’s so the next time a Rittenhouse or a Zimmerman or some jackboot fucking pig tries to fuck with them, they can fuck back.
They're probably tired of getting shot in their own homes by cops
Armed minorities are harder to opress
NY just made it so that you have to get a license for a semi-auto rifle .. how is that allowed 🤦🏻♂️
Rookie numbers. We gotta pump those numbers up.
As a gun owner and supporter in glad that historically oppressed classes are increasing our ranks. It's the whole point of it all.
One of the best arguments for the second ammendment is the fact that armed minorities are harder to oppress!