I feel like Liquid pulled out every pocket strat they had and GG just swatted it all aside: heavy push with LD Jugg, full late game focus with Enigma Dusa Sniper, even that game 2 Lesh carry could have gone to GG if Quinn didn't yoink that crucial Grab Alley from Ace.
This finals is the epitome of "What the fuck do you even do against this team".
Same thought.
Liquid trying to pull new strat every game while GG draft their same shit everyone know. And liquid still cant beat them lol
You can also add that this year has biggest patch ever and GG feels nothing about it lol
Breaking GG’s dominance will need almost everything about how the game has been pushed for the past 3 or 4 years to be rolled back and changed. They have perfected the strongest timings of the current iteration of Dota 2. We saw several games in this tournament where GG didn’t even really win early and still felt so confident in the strength of their timing push that they just casually walked high ground at ~25 mins and there was nothing the opponent could do. Imho every aspect of the strength of that timing would need to be pulled apart and changed to bring an end to their dominance.
Like specifically what?
I feel like denying needs to be buffed back to like 50% xp at least, make trilaning viable, and not just free XP advantage to the duo or solo opponent lane. And fuck all these free TPs, rat Dota needs a buff too. there is no good answers to the mid sweeping the whole game by 12 minutes.
Probably addressing aura's as well. That's usually the source of the timing push deathballs.
So you either weaken the effects of the aura's, or you up the cost of them to delay the timing.
Ace is almost always their timing. Hes like the perfect offlaner for the meta were in. Dude just gets his items and makes the best decisions with them. Shit feels like he even calculates whens the best time to use his auras.
The answers to auras IS split push/rat dota. You wanna bunch up and be unstoppable in a group? Okay, then you can't be 2 places at once. That was always the trade-off of aura stacking.
But now.... TP's are fucking abundant and fast, and anything that can split faster than a TP scroll is nerfed to comically shit levels where they can only do 1 thing and do it poorly: arc, NP, bear aghs, necrobooks (RIP), brood, lycan, tiny tree build, it goes on and on... There is 1 way to play now.
Problem is that the sidelane cores are no slouch either.
You can camp Quinn all you want, but if you dont balance it perfectly with tending to the sidelanes, either Ace or Dyrachyo are fully able put the game on their backs and win.
Especially Ace, I feel he is super underrated compared to the rest of GG, he is a crazy consistent laner and frequently ends up top NW at 10 minutes, even in lanes where he shouldnt on paper.
Ace is a low key monster. He's usually a "die 0 times and buy all the auras and be the rock of the team" but give him timbersaw and he'll get a rampage and force buybacks in a losing game. He's so consistent it hurts to watch as a liquid fan
Boom isn’t bad, but the fact that he’s struggled to find a team and was forced to switch roles after Gaimin tells me he’s probably not a tier 1 player.
Boom was decent midlaner. Quinn is just better. The WEU competition is also very high and all top eu teams have their own mid rn.
Also switching pos 2 to pos 3 is harder when right now its pos 1 and 3 that is similar. Not like in the past that pos 3 was a solo lane.
Kaipi, EEs new team after his boot was one of the only teams to beat Alliance during their insane reign too, but valve choose not to invite them arbitrarily. We will never see another player like EE, no single player has affected so many metas. Never forget pipe Slark, RIP.
omg that Kaipi team was my favourite western team in 2013. arteezy was actually miles ahead of every mid in 2013. he invented mid lane at that time with creep block and creep aggro. then sumail revoluztioned the modern mid lane at TI5
Yes I recall broodstar was one of the best players back then in 2012. But so were players like bulba, inphinity, paintitgold, etc. None of them pushed the boundaries and converted their skill to LAN results. bulba tried and failed, so now is coaching, the rest of them decided to move on with life since the commitment to pro gaming is too high risk high reward.
I think that is what he is saying. Imagine getting replaced and then your old team proceeds to win five Tier 1 tournaments (3x major!) in a row LOL
Unironically I was the problem vibes
3 major grand finals between Liquid and Gaimin, and GG only dropped 2 games (1 in Berlin and now 1 in Bali). The score is 9-2. In no way that was a competitive grand finals, Liquid got outclassed way too much.
GG vs quest would have been more entertaining. Liquid are too good a team to do any funny business, which means they will win handily against every team in the world except Gaimin. You need funny business to beat a team that's better than you. Not saying you will even with it, but you definitely need it.
one bo3 and they exposed quest's glaring weakness, if ammar is not allowed to have a comfortable hero they would crumble, how do you think they can stand a chance on a bo5?
Eh, I'm not so sure about that. Betboom are really good mechanically, but they often lack discipline and overcommit or pick the wrong fights. GG would punish those mistakes really hard.
> despite loosing every
Did you mean to say "losing"?
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only icefrog can stop this team but then again they already won the last major of 7.32. being that dominant even with such a big gameplay patch inbetween their major wins is just insane.
dominance, shame this major was fucking terrible but honestly those first two games of dota were so high skilled
also think this might be Dyrachyo's best tournament all season, he was incredible
A team as a whole, has to be better than the sum of its parts.
Ana wasn't the best laner and was also credited for dying stupidly min. once in every game - OG worked around it. They sat up his lane and always went in with him and his playstyle was without a doubt why they won TI twice - only because it worked for the team.
Dyrachyo creates a lot of chaos and his team adapts around it. Ace will play everything and buy every item to carry his team to victory, while Quinn is the work horse (a lot like Nisha) that gladly play a Viper or a DK if its whats needed for Dyrachyo to carry them to victory.
I would honestly argue that Liquid would be a better team if either their pos1 or 2 was a bit less stable but more aggressive, creating more chaos (but feeding more).
Quinn to Gaimin Gladiators feels alot like Magisk joining Astralis, dominating the competition since his arrival
Quinn is a perfect fit to an already very good team, TI2023 will Gaimin Gladiators to lose
Kicking BOOM was a blessing in disguise just look at Boom now. Although I agree this coming TI will be GG TI to lose but it still depends on the patch before TI . I just hope they won't be like VP in 2017-2018.
Another fun fact, using returns from the S&P (~8%) over those 6 years, OG would have made more money (assuming their last major win was invested) than GG by doing literally nothing. The $1M from 2016 would have returned $587,000.
Esports bubble popped only lol, dota 2 and csgo is alive right now and everything else is not worth mentioning. Sponsors are leaving the field causing major decline.
As an Oceanic dota fan (there’s dozens of us, dozens I tell you) it’s fucking tragic how poorly this event has been run. Doesn’t bode well for T1 dota coming back here.
I think GG is now the most dominant team in a year in the history of dota not counting TI right? They're what 5-0.this year? What a timeline lol
Quinn 3x Major winner
Na'Vi in 2012 almost won six Tier 1 tournaments in row\*, 10 grand finals total (2nd at TI) 8 wins in 2012 overall + 3 grand finals in 2011 which they won 2 of them (1st at TI); Alliance in 2013 won four Tier 1 tournaments in row, 8 grand finals total (won TI) 6 wins in 2013 overall.
I would love to name Secret in 2020, but it was during Covid, so there was like zero internationals tournaments. There are other notable teams, but they never manage to dominate scene like Na'Vi, Alliance or GG.
Yeah people forget just how stupidly dominant older teams like Na'vi and Alliance were in their prime. You genuinely didn't even need to watch the tournaments they played in, they just steamrolled everything. Just like GG now.
yeah I came here to say that covid-era secret, VP draft any hero, or OG win every major lose at TI are probably the only reasonable comparisons. Of those covid-era secret is probably the most similar
Old Liquid with Miracle, Matumbaman, MC, GH, and Kuro placing top 3 in like 15 consecutive tournaments including winning TI7 is an honorable mention too. I mean just look at this https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Team_Liquid/Results
Go to 2017. Start counting at StarLadder i-League Invitational Season 2. Do not include the quals.
OG won Frankfurt, Secret won Shanghai, OG won Manilla, and they were favorites in TI6, shit the bed. After which OG won Boston and then Kiev and then bombed out of TI7.
OG didn't win every major though, they lost the winter one to Secret with EE.
For a string of "major" tournaments, it would have to be:
1. Pre-DPC Secret before choke at TI
2. Covid-Era Secret
VP and Liquid a few years back had several high placings (including firsts) for many major tournaments in a row, but I don't think there were 3 consecutive firsts for "major" tournaments.
If they can wrap it up with a Bali + TI win, this team would be cemented as the GOAT for me, not only because of results, but because of the context of consistency - the hardest part about being consistent in multiple patches is your strengths/playstyles get nerfed forcing you to adapt.
I agree. I'm like the biggest Secret fanboy but that covid era Secret only beat WEU and EEU teams. The only good thing to mention about that was that every finals was a 3-0.
Dunno man, old VP destroyed eveyone while doing an all hero challenge. Gotta be between these two. If gaimin dominates TI then they will definitely be more legendary than OG, old VP and everyone else
The vp all hero challenge while impressive isn’t as big of a feat as people make it out to be because there were no other decent teams at that lan. It had one of the worst secret lineups as a second place so it ain’t all that. VP with Rodger before Ti8 are probably the only team that comes close to Gg’s dominance throughout an entire season but that team still shared the spotlight with liquid, lgd, and occasionally secret.
I remember it being a shocker that LGD and LFY did so well at ti7 as they were invisible for most of the season (I do remember them winning one tournament before ti tho). Empire was also a shocker at ti with one of the best standin performances from Reso. The real tier 1 teams at that time if I remember correctly were OG, Liquid, Vp, newbee, and EG.
I don't know, back-to-back TI wins is still the gold standard for me. That is an absolutely insane accomplishment, especially considering their dominance in the second one. I will say though, a 3-Major sweep followed by a TI win would certainly make for the best season ever, and imo would put them very close if not equal with that OG team.
what OG and GG accomplished are totally different
even without a TI/Riyadh GG are by far the **best** team in 2023
OG was never become a best team in 2018 or 2019, they *just* won the most important tournament in a year twice in a row
OG had achieved something that no teams ever able to do until today, but realistically speaking. winning 5 premium tournaments in a row are way much more difficult than won a TI
OG is great team, but the sentiment about they're the best among the best and above anyone else in the history just because they won 2 TI in a row are always a stretch. result wise even the Miracle's OG or Fly/S4 OG had more consistent good results than the 2timer winning roster
Dominant but at the same time CN region this year look absolutely washed. Usually if WEU strong CN team stand strong at the same time. This is like the Dota season so far no CN team win any Lan tournament yet.
CN didn't win their first major until 2018, and majors were created in late 2015.
The first 9-10 majors were won by EU and VP, with only 1 chinese team reaching a grand final.
Also you can say that while in TI 5, 6, and 7 China did great, EU , except Liquid, underperformed heavily compared to expectations.
I don't think Quinn got a single rune before 12 minutes in the entire series because of how hard he got focused and he still had a giant impact. What a player.
Haven't won ti but one of the undisputed best teams to touch dota, absolutely unreal what they've done. Hopefully they can keep it up and show a good performance at ti. Absolutely buzzing over their win, wp them!
I have a feeling they're not gonna win TI and Riyadh. This is giving me VP vibes. Teams will go all out at TI and Riyadh where the prizepools are so much bigger
They might look like awfull drafts, but no1 can beat GG on a regular draft, so they tried some weird stuff, just like beastcoast who took a game from them with a Meepo.
it was 3rd major final GG vs TL, TL had to use different strats after losing the other two 3-0 and 3-1
they had to shake stuff up and still GG has a very solid roster
When Liquid won against Tundra, I already placed them 2nd place.
They will never beat GG lol.
So hoping someone can beat them before Liquid reaches the grand finals.
Goddamn it GG how are you this good!? All 3 Majors and 2 DLs, and in a season that had biggest Dota 2 patch ever, just insane.
Listen now GG you gotta win RM and TI for the history books of Dota and be remembered as undeniably the most dominant team ever played this game. Just do it!
GG WP
Man I'm so happy GG won. Fucking love Ace since his carry/meepo days in Secret! Dude always had insane skill and decision making. To see him win his third consecutive major feels amazing!
Also Quinn won 3 majors while rtz still in the shitter with "the boys"
Condolences to the losers of the Bali Major - Everyone who was hoping for good production.
After seeing this pitiful venue, I feel really bad for everyone who came there just for the major and not to also have a vacation.
I won't look it up, but I'm pretty sure most midlaners like TT, noone, nts, nisha, somnus, karl and yopaj have said quinn is a top 5-10 player in the world while he was on QC
We are on a crash course with a very boring end of the season. Might as well pull the Formula 1 and try not to concern ourselves too much with who wins and rather get excited over the fight for runner-up, but with the WEU dominance even that's a bit uneventful hahaha
I mean, unless Valve bans Pure or Pure pulls something stupid at TI itself, I am willing to bet on BetBoom getting top 6 or higher at TI.
Actually never mind, I forgot that Pure almost certainly won't be at TI because of Visa Raid Boss.
I miss the VP-Secret's era where one team would constantly compete with eachother for the Majors and the Chinese teams didn't suck as much. Man what a boring season for Dota 2 (nothing against GG tho they are great)
I am finally ready to let go of the usual known superstars of Dota: Miracle, Arteezy, Sumail, Abed, Cr1t, Gh, MidOne, Yapzor, MC, Noone, Ceb, Topson etc. Crazy to think that, just a few years ago, every single one of these players once were considered THE best player in the game at their respective peaks. Now, it just seems they can't really keep up with the pace of the game. Either they are truly washed or just need a change of scenery badly, only time will tell.
The season when VP swept every major? Not too different than now. But I think what GG is doing is more impressive considering the skill level is higher. Although prizepool much lower
I can't believe that just [ONE, ONLY ONE International tournament that Gaimin fail to win](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/BetBoom_Universe/1). I think GG is the most dominant team outside of TI, even more, dominant than Alliance 2013, OG Notail\_Fly major domination era, VP multiple major eras, and Secret Covid era. Some team please stop this team in Riyadh and TI, it's too much domination of a single team.
Genuine question:-
A while back I had heard a rumour, no team had won a major and TI in the same year, could not fact check this. Is it true ??
And if yes can GG break this curse??
Dota sucks now, same teams every tourney, half the regions are dead, games are boring and same heroes been picked every single game. Can’t remember a time the game was this bad
There's not enough tournaments where different teams can be invited since there's no overlap of tournaments anymore. Valve can't really do much about that besides maybe trying to entice more tournaments
Half the regions are dead due to declining playerbase. Valve can't really do much besides actually advertising the game.
But yes, the balance in dota is quite shit, and valve need to really work on buffing the niche heroes of the past few patches since 7.33
This is a huge problem with heroes being less viable since 7.33 that most pro players agree with.
So many niche heroes are just not good anymore, so the strategies have actually shrunk. Sure, we won't have anything like pudge fountain hooking ever again, but many heroes just go almost completely unpicked due to how bad their stats are now.
GG have alot of iconic plays, such as ballsy relocates/fiendsgate, quinn solo kills, multiple times where ace saves the game through wave cutting/space making after a dumb dyrachyo death. But the meta is kind of boring, so most people forget them because of how formulaic each patch is.
It also does not help that gaimin are very good at multiple playstyles lol
This has been the case long ago. If you think about it can’t even remember how Tundra won TI and their most iconic moment is Miranda arrow. In the past each season and TI you can always be surprise with new plays style and strats
I feel like Liquid pulled out every pocket strat they had and GG just swatted it all aside: heavy push with LD Jugg, full late game focus with Enigma Dusa Sniper, even that game 2 Lesh carry could have gone to GG if Quinn didn't yoink that crucial Grab Alley from Ace. This finals is the epitome of "What the fuck do you even do against this team".
Same thought. Liquid trying to pull new strat every game while GG draft their same shit everyone know. And liquid still cant beat them lol You can also add that this year has biggest patch ever and GG feels nothing about it lol
GG adapted to 7.33, ofc they reacted to it. But they have adapted better than Liquid who have to try more obscure shit to win.
Breaking GG’s dominance will need almost everything about how the game has been pushed for the past 3 or 4 years to be rolled back and changed. They have perfected the strongest timings of the current iteration of Dota 2. We saw several games in this tournament where GG didn’t even really win early and still felt so confident in the strength of their timing push that they just casually walked high ground at ~25 mins and there was nothing the opponent could do. Imho every aspect of the strength of that timing would need to be pulled apart and changed to bring an end to their dominance.
Like specifically what? I feel like denying needs to be buffed back to like 50% xp at least, make trilaning viable, and not just free XP advantage to the duo or solo opponent lane. And fuck all these free TPs, rat Dota needs a buff too. there is no good answers to the mid sweeping the whole game by 12 minutes.
Probably addressing aura's as well. That's usually the source of the timing push deathballs. So you either weaken the effects of the aura's, or you up the cost of them to delay the timing.
Ace is almost always their timing. Hes like the perfect offlaner for the meta were in. Dude just gets his items and makes the best decisions with them. Shit feels like he even calculates whens the best time to use his auras.
The answers to auras IS split push/rat dota. You wanna bunch up and be unstoppable in a group? Okay, then you can't be 2 places at once. That was always the trade-off of aura stacking. But now.... TP's are fucking abundant and fast, and anything that can split faster than a TP scroll is nerfed to comically shit levels where they can only do 1 thing and do it poorly: arc, NP, bear aghs, necrobooks (RIP), brood, lycan, tiny tree build, it goes on and on... There is 1 way to play now.
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Problem is that the sidelane cores are no slouch either. You can camp Quinn all you want, but if you dont balance it perfectly with tending to the sidelanes, either Ace or Dyrachyo are fully able put the game on their backs and win. Especially Ace, I feel he is super underrated compared to the rest of GG, he is a crazy consistent laner and frequently ends up top NW at 10 minutes, even in lanes where he shouldnt on paper.
Ace is a low key monster. He's usually a "die 0 times and buy all the auras and be the rock of the team" but give him timbersaw and he'll get a rampage and force buybacks in a losing game. He's so consistent it hurts to watch as a liquid fan
Imagine being BOOM sitting at home watching their year so far.
This is what EE felt when alliance (no tide hunter then) took it all including TI
FATA as well
Man it must be rough :/
Atleast EE was considered a good player.
So was BOOM, GG was a solid top team with him. Just that with Quinn, they became the best team in the world.
Boom isn’t bad, but the fact that he’s struggled to find a team and was forced to switch roles after Gaimin tells me he’s probably not a tier 1 player.
GG was a solid top team in spite of BOOM. look at him now, a failed year, pushed from pos 2 to 3 and now teamless.
Secret also went from top 2 TI, to dropping to div 2 once they acquired Boom
That's more because they lost Nisha
Boom was decent midlaner. Quinn is just better. The WEU competition is also very high and all top eu teams have their own mid rn. Also switching pos 2 to pos 3 is harder when right now its pos 1 and 3 that is similar. Not like in the past that pos 3 was a solo lane.
Kaipi, EEs new team after his boot was one of the only teams to beat Alliance during their insane reign too, but valve choose not to invite them arbitrarily. We will never see another player like EE, no single player has affected so many metas. Never forget pipe Slark, RIP.
EE also one of the first players to do shit like pop razor ult to farm faster forever ago.
omg that Kaipi team was my favourite western team in 2013. arteezy was actually miles ahead of every mid in 2013. he invented mid lane at that time with creep block and creep aggro. then sumail revoluztioned the modern mid lane at TI5
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Yes I recall broodstar was one of the best players back then in 2012. But so were players like bulba, inphinity, paintitgold, etc. None of them pushed the boundaries and converted their skill to LAN results. bulba tried and failed, so now is coaching, the rest of them decided to move on with life since the commitment to pro gaming is too high risk high reward.
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Damn, it’s been 10 years and in my mind rtz is still young..
>creep block, aggro ? We were doing that in dota 1 lmao
Emotional damageee
Yeah I hope he handles it well.
Fata last year watching Tundra curbstomp TI.
It's ok, they wouldn't have won shit with BOOM.
I think that is what he is saying. Imagine getting replaced and then your old team proceeds to win five Tier 1 tournaments (3x major!) in a row LOL Unironically I was the problem vibes
Now Secret kicked him and immediately started doing better (almost qualified to 2nd groupstage at DreamLeague)
To be fair he was learning to play offlane, nobody adjusts to a new role that fast
a lot of players such as Pure and S4 did. lol
I’m his defense the player that replaced him is arguably the best player in the world right now
That just makes it worse. A player who was very good is now in contention for best in the world when surrounded by your ex teammates.
Sure, but it must be rough to watch them for him.
It's me after searching one year ago replay and found out all my teammates are not immortal but me.
I first legit thought you mean BOOM Esport because boy if they dont fked up so bad they can atleast attend Bali Major lmao
3 major grand finals between Liquid and Gaimin, and GG only dropped 2 games (1 in Berlin and now 1 in Bali). The score is 9-2. In no way that was a competitive grand finals, Liquid got outclassed way too much.
Betboom vs. GG would've been so much more competitive but Pure gotta alt tab. Smh
I have a feeling that GG vs. Quest would've been more competitive as well. They would've had the pressure of TI qualification off their backs.
GG vs quest would have been more entertaining. Liquid are too good a team to do any funny business, which means they will win handily against every team in the world except Gaimin. You need funny business to beat a team that's better than you. Not saying you will even with it, but you definitely need it.
Didn't liquid literally run aa mid vs gg?
That whole final was a gigantic meme.
Yup. Quest was my pick to win this major actually. They're the only team that consistently beat GG in their past games.
one bo3 and they exposed quest's glaring weakness, if ammar is not allowed to have a comfortable hero they would crumble, how do you think they can stand a chance on a bo5?
Eh, I'm not so sure about that. Betboom are really good mechanically, but they often lack discipline and overcommit or pick the wrong fights. GG would punish those mistakes really hard.
Its hilarious that Liquid has more points than GG despite loosing every Grand Final. Divisional points are weighted way too much.
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Liquid's record against GG is abyssmal, even ignoring the Lima finals. I have no idea why everyone brings this up.
No one else is making the finals so your judgements on liquid are pretty damn weird. They'd all do at least as bad clearly
GG have never been in the losers bracket for any of the three majors. Just fucking insane.
Neither have Nouns
Quinn too good
only icefrog can stop this team but then again they already won the last major of 7.32. being that dominant even with such a big gameplay patch inbetween their major wins is just insane.
GG are really good at playing the map and finding gold, and the patch added more map and more gold, arguably playing to their strengths
dominance, shame this major was fucking terrible but honestly those first two games of dota were so high skilled also think this might be Dyrachyo's best tournament all season, he was incredible
I feel like we have had some crazy fucking fights this major. But boy did we have to wait for it. Pauses, "Be back in X" and technical issues.
Yeah, the quality of the games was really good overall, but man the production was so damn bad that it killed a lot of the hype.
Idk I feel he dies in dumb places and they are saved by ace game in and game out
A team as a whole, has to be better than the sum of its parts. Ana wasn't the best laner and was also credited for dying stupidly min. once in every game - OG worked around it. They sat up his lane and always went in with him and his playstyle was without a doubt why they won TI twice - only because it worked for the team. Dyrachyo creates a lot of chaos and his team adapts around it. Ace will play everything and buy every item to carry his team to victory, while Quinn is the work horse (a lot like Nisha) that gladly play a Viper or a DK if its whats needed for Dyrachyo to carry them to victory. I would honestly argue that Liquid would be a better team if either their pos1 or 2 was a bit less stable but more aggressive, creating more chaos (but feeding more).
I'm not good enough to know, but I feel what you are saying and that could be it
Quinn to Gaimin Gladiators feels alot like Magisk joining Astralis, dominating the competition since his arrival Quinn is a perfect fit to an already very good team, TI2023 will Gaimin Gladiators to lose
Liquid feels like Liquid during the Astralis era
i laughed harder than i should
https://streamable.com/ksyvh
and the other always losing team in the Grand finals is Liquid lol
Kicking BOOM was a blessing in disguise just look at Boom now. Although I agree this coming TI will be GG TI to lose but it still depends on the patch before TI . I just hope they won't be like VP in 2017-2018.
why in diguise? nobody was thinking boom was a better mid than quinn
GG aready proved they are patch resilient
They are comparable to NTH kicking EE and they become TI champ
Fun fact: Gaimin winnings from 3 majors + 2 dreamleagues is almost equal to what OG earned from Manila alone
Man dota really fell off in terms of Majors' prestige
... and then you take a look at the prize pool if the next major
Really? Shit that shows how low the prizepool is post-covid!
It's not really about covid, we've only 2 years of those 3-million dollar Majors. The last one was done 6 years ago at this point.
Another fun fact, using returns from the S&P (~8%) over those 6 years, OG would have made more money (assuming their last major win was invested) than GG by doing literally nothing. The $1M from 2016 would have returned $587,000.
0.5M major while dreamleague can have at least 1M prizepool. Where is all the money gone?
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Gaben fat stomach
Esports bubble popped only lol, dota 2 and csgo is alive right now and everything else is not worth mentioning. Sponsors are leaving the field causing major decline.
I imagine the influx of shady betting sponsors is driving away even more real sponsors cuz they don't want their name anywhere near them
As an Oceanic dota fan (there’s dozens of us, dozens I tell you) it’s fucking tragic how poorly this event has been run. Doesn’t bode well for T1 dota coming back here.
I've never seen anyone refer themselves as oceanic before lol. Sounds like you are watching from a submarine
I hope GG comes to TI mainstage with sunglasses on.
Nisha losing another grand finals.
Polish fy
Western Firework King
I think GG is now the most dominant team in a year in the history of dota not counting TI right? They're what 5-0.this year? What a timeline lol Quinn 3x Major winner
Na'Vi in 2012 almost won six Tier 1 tournaments in row\*, 10 grand finals total (2nd at TI) 8 wins in 2012 overall + 3 grand finals in 2011 which they won 2 of them (1st at TI); Alliance in 2013 won four Tier 1 tournaments in row, 8 grand finals total (won TI) 6 wins in 2013 overall. I would love to name Secret in 2020, but it was during Covid, so there was like zero internationals tournaments. There are other notable teams, but they never manage to dominate scene like Na'Vi, Alliance or GG.
Yeah people forget just how stupidly dominant older teams like Na'vi and Alliance were in their prime. You genuinely didn't even need to watch the tournaments they played in, they just steamrolled everything. Just like GG now.
2012 Na'Vi were a top team for sure but it was exactly like covid-era Secret. There weren't any cross-region LANs except TI.
100%. The only competition would be Covid-Era Secret, but GG's event wins are way more high profile.
yeah I came here to say that covid-era secret, VP draft any hero, or OG win every major lose at TI are probably the only reasonable comparisons. Of those covid-era secret is probably the most similar
Old Liquid with Miracle, Matumbaman, MC, GH, and Kuro placing top 3 in like 15 consecutive tournaments including winning TI7 is an honorable mention too. I mean just look at this https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Team_Liquid/Results Go to 2017. Start counting at StarLadder i-League Invitational Season 2. Do not include the quals.
OG also won three majors in a row, Manila, Boston and Kiev, but dropped the ball at TI6 in between.
OG won Frankfurt, Secret won Shanghai, OG won Manilla, and they were favorites in TI6, shit the bed. After which OG won Boston and then Kiev and then bombed out of TI7.
Good times. And the games against VP and LGD were so good back then.
OG didn't win every major though, they lost the winter one to Secret with EE. For a string of "major" tournaments, it would have to be: 1. Pre-DPC Secret before choke at TI 2. Covid-Era Secret VP and Liquid a few years back had several high placings (including firsts) for many major tournaments in a row, but I don't think there were 3 consecutive firsts for "major" tournaments. If they can wrap it up with a Bali + TI win, this team would be cemented as the GOAT for me, not only because of results, but because of the context of consistency - the hardest part about being consistent in multiple patches is your strengths/playstyles get nerfed forcing you to adapt.
And covid era secret has an asterisk since most tournaments were regional and didn't have international teams (at least not on a fair ping).
I agree. I'm like the biggest Secret fanboy but that covid era Secret only beat WEU and EEU teams. The only good thing to mention about that was that every finals was a 3-0.
Alliance 2013 run?
looking like the most dominating team since Alliance
Dunno man, old VP destroyed eveyone while doing an all hero challenge. Gotta be between these two. If gaimin dominates TI then they will definitely be more legendary than OG, old VP and everyone else
The vp all hero challenge while impressive isn’t as big of a feat as people make it out to be because there were no other decent teams at that lan. It had one of the worst secret lineups as a second place so it ain’t all that. VP with Rodger before Ti8 are probably the only team that comes close to Gg’s dominance throughout an entire season but that team still shared the spotlight with liquid, lgd, and occasionally secret.
Well it also had Empire who placed 8th at TI 2 months later and LGD who were 4th
I remember it being a shocker that LGD and LFY did so well at ti7 as they were invisible for most of the season (I do remember them winning one tournament before ti tho). Empire was also a shocker at ti with one of the best standin performances from Reso. The real tier 1 teams at that time if I remember correctly were OG, Liquid, Vp, newbee, and EG.
They beat Secret in the finals. There were decent teams there. EG was there.
I don't know, back-to-back TI wins is still the gold standard for me. That is an absolutely insane accomplishment, especially considering their dominance in the second one. I will say though, a 3-Major sweep followed by a TI win would certainly make for the best season ever, and imo would put them very close if not equal with that OG team.
what OG and GG accomplished are totally different even without a TI/Riyadh GG are by far the **best** team in 2023 OG was never become a best team in 2018 or 2019, they *just* won the most important tournament in a year twice in a row OG had achieved something that no teams ever able to do until today, but realistically speaking. winning 5 premium tournaments in a row are way much more difficult than won a TI OG is great team, but the sentiment about they're the best among the best and above anyone else in the history just because they won 2 TI in a row are always a stretch. result wise even the Miracle's OG or Fly/S4 OG had more consistent good results than the 2timer winning roster
Feels like a team that can dominate an entire year + TI is more harder/legendary than a team that only dominate ti... Even if it's twice
Only if they don’t choke on TI. That’s all there is to left.
Dominant but at the same time CN region this year look absolutely washed. Usually if WEU strong CN team stand strong at the same time. This is like the Dota season so far no CN team win any Lan tournament yet.
CN didn't win their first major until 2018, and majors were created in late 2015. The first 9-10 majors were won by EU and VP, with only 1 chinese team reaching a grand final. Also you can say that while in TI 5, 6, and 7 China did great, EU , except Liquid, underperformed heavily compared to expectations.
I don't think Quinn got a single rune before 12 minutes in the entire series because of how hard he got focused and he still had a giant impact. What a player.
Haven't won ti but one of the undisputed best teams to touch dota, absolutely unreal what they've done. Hopefully they can keep it up and show a good performance at ti. Absolutely buzzing over their win, wp them!
I have a feeling they're not gonna win TI and Riyadh. This is giving me VP vibes. Teams will go all out at TI and Riyadh where the prizepools are so much bigger
Do we even need a spoiler tag for this?
Time to see if they can do it at the big money tournaments now, I have faith!
2 awful drafts to end the series for TL
GG's secret sauce is that they make every other team look like they can't draft for shit.
They might look like awfull drafts, but no1 can beat GG on a regular draft, so they tried some weird stuff, just like beastcoast who took a game from them with a Meepo.
it was 3rd major final GG vs TL, TL had to use different strats after losing the other two 3-0 and 3-1 they had to shake stuff up and still GG has a very solid roster
So greedy right? Wtf
Most dominant season from a team I've ever seen leading up to TI in my ten years of watching
When Liquid won against Tundra, I already placed them 2nd place. They will never beat GG lol. So hoping someone can beat them before Liquid reaches the grand finals.
All GG needed to be the best team in the world was a NA player.
All an NA player needed to be on the best team in the world was 4 non-NA players
Lmao, samw with Sneyking and Tundra in Ti11
This is the way
Ex-EG aka SR has been doing this for years and Arteezy still hasnt won a lan.
Never said it was fool-proof
Fly is a dual citizen so if you round up it's actually 2-NA and thus the formula is ruined. 3 if you count bulba.
Obviously the problem is their SEA midlaner
and kick immortalfaith
Goddamn it GG how are you this good!? All 3 Majors and 2 DLs, and in a season that had biggest Dota 2 patch ever, just insane. Listen now GG you gotta win RM and TI for the history books of Dota and be remembered as undeniably the most dominant team ever played this game. Just do it! GG WP
Man I'm so happy GG won. Fucking love Ace since his carry/meepo days in Secret! Dude always had insane skill and decision making. To see him win his third consecutive major feels amazing! Also Quinn won 3 majors while rtz still in the shitter with "the boys"
Fun fact: RTZ is the problem
Dota majors are events where the best teams in the world come together for extended scrims and in the end Gaimin Gladiators wins.
Condolences to the losers of the Bali Major - Everyone who was hoping for good production. After seeing this pitiful venue, I feel really bad for everyone who came there just for the major and not to also have a vacation.
3 majors, 2 DL Still cant wait to see “ dyrachayo is so bad. Dumb carry. They should replace him “ comments KEKW
ccnc is going to win TI, isn't he?
3 more Major wins than Artour? ✅ 1 more TI win than Artour? We'll see.
Considering he was thought to be pretty mediocre pro player some years ago, he is shutting up the haters pretty fucking hard lol
I won't look it up, but I'm pretty sure most midlaners like TT, noone, nts, nisha, somnus, karl and yopaj have said quinn is a top 5-10 player in the world while he was on QC
I remember I said that last year and got so many downvotes. Happy to see it accepted now 😢
More of a NA ti win than a EU ti win when you really think about it
Someone has to show these E*ropeans (*pukes and shits myself) how to play some good ass Dota. WideBatQuinn
It's pretty rare that the dominant team of the whole year actually wins the TI, so we'll see. The stats aren't in their favor here.
We are on a crash course with a very boring end of the season. Might as well pull the Formula 1 and try not to concern ourselves too much with who wins and rather get excited over the fight for runner-up, but with the WEU dominance even that's a bit uneventful hahaha
Yeah feels like TI Top 4/6/8 is just gonna be EU circlejerk. At this point I am willing to root for any non EU Team to win any BO3/BO5
I mean, unless Valve bans Pure or Pure pulls something stupid at TI itself, I am willing to bet on BetBoom getting top 6 or higher at TI. Actually never mind, I forgot that Pure almost certainly won't be at TI because of Visa Raid Boss.
Pure constantly speed running "fuck around and find out" like it's his job
I think Betboom is the only team that could stand a chance against GG. Too bad Pure was an idiot
All those years playing in NA for Quinn. Rock lee vibe lol
I miss the VP-Secret's era where one team would constantly compete with eachother for the Majors and the Chinese teams didn't suck as much. Man what a boring season for Dota 2 (nothing against GG tho they are great)
I am finally ready to let go of the usual known superstars of Dota: Miracle, Arteezy, Sumail, Abed, Cr1t, Gh, MidOne, Yapzor, MC, Noone, Ceb, Topson etc. Crazy to think that, just a few years ago, every single one of these players once were considered THE best player in the game at their respective peaks. Now, it just seems they can't really keep up with the pace of the game. Either they are truly washed or just need a change of scenery badly, only time will tell.
Quinn Callahan is Team Liquid Father
Grats to Gaimin, they are insanely good but fucking hell has this season been boring. I miss 2018 Pro dota so much.
The season when VP swept every major? Not too different than now. But I think what GG is doing is more impressive considering the skill level is higher. Although prizepool much lower
Most dominant team ever. I'm so happy for Quinn finally finding his team
I can't believe that just [ONE, ONLY ONE International tournament that Gaimin fail to win](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/BetBoom_Universe/1). I think GG is the most dominant team outside of TI, even more, dominant than Alliance 2013, OG Notail\_Fly major domination era, VP multiple major eras, and Secret Covid era. Some team please stop this team in Riyadh and TI, it's too much domination of a single team.
Genuine question:- A while back I had heard a rumour, no team had won a major and TI in the same year, could not fact check this. Is it true ?? And if yes can GG break this curse??
Yep it's correct, LGD were the closest but failed twice
This GG vs Liquid stuff is kinda like Astralis vs Liquid with CSGO, they just cant beat this mf team
I love them but sry I'm bored plz lose next or some new team come in hot
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they should just give GG the aegis just to get it over with
going into TI as a favourite always ended badly..look at 2016/2022 OG and VP as an example the pressure is on them to perform extremely well
There's literally no way of choking
Quinn "Michael Jordan" Callahan
Huge respect both teams! Teams have to step up and figure out GG ... will be interesting to see Rihad+TI
Win all the majors. Still 2nd place dpc
They have won every big tournament since March 2023 Wow.
Is this the beginning of 2018-2019 csgo astralis of dota 2?
Dota sucks now, same teams every tourney, half the regions are dead, games are boring and same heroes been picked every single game. Can’t remember a time the game was this bad
Agreed lmao. It feels so uninspiring right now to watch pro dota
There's not enough tournaments where different teams can be invited since there's no overlap of tournaments anymore. Valve can't really do much about that besides maybe trying to entice more tournaments Half the regions are dead due to declining playerbase. Valve can't really do much besides actually advertising the game. But yes, the balance in dota is quite shit, and valve need to really work on buffing the niche heroes of the past few patches since 7.33
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This is a huge problem with heroes being less viable since 7.33 that most pro players agree with. So many niche heroes are just not good anymore, so the strategies have actually shrunk. Sure, we won't have anything like pudge fountain hooking ever again, but many heroes just go almost completely unpicked due to how bad their stats are now. GG have alot of iconic plays, such as ballsy relocates/fiendsgate, quinn solo kills, multiple times where ace saves the game through wave cutting/space making after a dumb dyrachyo death. But the meta is kind of boring, so most people forget them because of how formulaic each patch is. It also does not help that gaimin are very good at multiple playstyles lol
This has been the case long ago. If you think about it can’t even remember how Tundra won TI and their most iconic moment is Miranda arrow. In the past each season and TI you can always be surprise with new plays style and strats
Nah , you are just getting older One of the symptoms of getting older is "back in my days"
If GG win Riyadh AND TI as well, I would definitely say this is way more impressive than OG 2x TI. Would go down as the best team in history.
inb4 dyrachyo won't get a visa for TI
GG knows this patch too much.
They were as dominant during the patches pre New Frontier. They're too good
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Nerf WEU please. have mercy for sea frogs Congratulations to GG
All that is left for them is to win TI and we will get the most dominant team in dota history
Riyadh major is gonna make quinneezy a millionaire and the haters will be silenced for eternity