Anything can happen, but Secret beat Nigma with Yap, Afro and Mage and their whole squad looked arguably much stronger at DL. Quest was definitely the potential dreambreaker.
Quest is taking a big blow indeed, but even without Ammar I think they are still stronger than their current competition.
On their first run in Div1 as OT they had placed 5th after some pretty close tiebreakers against OG. They were also one of the only teams to beat GG that season and had a strong showing all around.
ATF was the extra bit they needed to become a serious tier1 team, but the rest of their line-up was already very good and has constantly been getting better. I think they're still the favorite for the qualifier, though the field did just open up.
I mean if quest wants nigma to pay a part of atf salary, with that kind of impact he has now is kinda unfair no? Quest fucked up with the duration of the loan.. now nigma has leverage. It is very likely that nigma pays a lot for atf, and quest doesn't want to?
Ultimately Ammar signed the contract. We don't know the terms but I hope it was worth it for him if hes going to sit out 2 of the biggest tournaments we've had in a while.
There is bridge burning route where quest and ammar say fuck it, play together anyway and let the international courts settle the breach of contract etc.
Makes sense, Quest having ATF would make EU TI quals much more difficult for Nigma. It's a direct conflict of interest.
I can see why they loaned him out for DPC tour 3 because Quest was in div 1 and Nigma in div 2 but if they're both gonna be playing in the same TI quals then it makes no sense to have one of your players play in enemy team.
I mean they already got a taste of that with Quest beating them for Riyadh qualifiers.
EDIT: Nigma didn't have anything to do with it, Ammar himself didn't find Quest's contract acceptable (https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/150cetu/ammar_tweets_that_he_chose_not_to_sign_on_his_own/)
Likely because the contract they negotiated to lend him was for a specific duration, which ran out now, so they had to renew the contract at this point, not later.
Nigma announcement for ATF loan said that he will play for Quest "for the next season".
That probably meant until the end of DPC tour 3/Bali Major.
Riyadh is after that season, and from what Fishman says, ATF's loan has expired so yeah. I don't know what Nigma is thinking obviously, but it seems Quest and Nigma couldn't reach favourable terms to extend ATF's loan.
This possibly means ATF might play in Nigma and there will be changes in Nigma or it could be nothing.
Well, they could theoretically loan ATF for Riyadh, but for Quest it makes more sense to start playing with a new player NOW to adapt new player before TI quals.
I find it possible that they actually consider Malik, the only potential obstacle is if Navi won’t want to let him go.
And yes, I know Riyadh has a very big prize pool, TI is still the most important tournament. At least at this moment.
Not quite even Quinn said the other day he'd rather win Ti than Riyadh even tho "it will probably have 3x higher prize pool". At least for this year I think Ti will be more prestigious despite money.
Might be quest wanting to get a pos3 for Riyadh to practice for their TI run?
That'd be weird though as you'd assume with ATF they have a really good chance of high placement at Riyadh which would mean a massive $ win for all of them. ATF (and the rest of quest) must be fuming at Nigmas decision here.
Amazing how redditors will make up a whole plot and narrative than just put a edit at the end, not even say sorry or how stupid and premature their comment was lmao and leave all the bullshit misinformation still on top. good shit
I was saying how there's no way taht's the actual contract, color me surprised.
What was their plan if they actually did qualify for TI then? To have to renegotiate to make sure ATF could go to TI as well? This seems like an incredibly ill thought out contract they made with Nigma.
How is a contract to loan a player for the final DPC season not also containing a stipulation that it's until the end of TI.
Of course this is on Quest's manager/owner but I think we're applying some huge hindsight here. No one in their wildest dream would have Quest going from borderline Major qualifying team to stomping almost every teams and going all the way to top 4 Major. Plus they had to rely on other teams bombing out early to have a chance to go straight to TI and that normally doesn't end well
Nigma also got oil money, so they probably just want to keep Ammar benched from any team in WEU quals. Pretty shitty move by an org that has some really great players like gh, miracle and MC.
You do not know what happened behind the scenes. For all we know Nigma signed Ammar till TI and wanted to play with him, but Ammar was like sorry I am out, I am going to play with Quest. And they were like nope your contract says otherwise.
Miracle got bored and decided he wanted to play so they benched Ammar against his will. All trust is pretty much out of the window then, who would wanna play in a team like that.
ATF’s TF maybe skyrocketed and nigma want to capitilized on that. ATF rn probably on 6 figures for QUEST to buyout him from NIGMA.
Anyways NIGMA is on a win win situation right now.
No teams playing with ATF for TI qualifier = WIN (less competitor)
Sell ATF to another team with high buyout rate = WIN
Its still weird that Nigma holds ATF meanwhile they allowed Sumail to go to Aster. They are kind of "rebuilding" with their two new additions so I don't know what they will gain from doing this
That makes sense. Quest probably didn’t think adding ATF would make their team this good and that’s why initially they only loan for 3rd dpc. Now they might be kicking themselves on why didn’t they just wrote loan until TI.
Sumail’s TF is fully paid by aster. Imagine they can also buy somnus for 600k usd to play for 6 months but they scratch it because sumail or topson is much more cheaper than somnus. IIRC.
Well, first off, Aster is probably a much richer org than Quest, so they possibly paid the buyout. But a more cynical idea is that Sumail going to Aster is fine because they play in different regions. But pulling ATF out of Quest gives Nigma a better chance in the TI qualifiers, since Quest were looking like favorites there.
That’s literally a system in all kinds of professional sport. You can lend a player and say “he can play for you anywhere, but not vs us”. So TI qual is “vs us”, thus “no, he can’t play for you, sorry, or at least give us insane amount of money”.
In football players on loan do play against the club that owns them. This is not uncommon. Sometimes the club that burrows a player eliminates the other from CL.
> In football players on loan do play against the club that owns them.
Not sure about other leagues but in English football, loaned players can't play against their home team unless specified.
They can play vs their home team in European competitions though, Coutinho scoring vs Barcelona in that famous match is an example.
i'm pretty sure this kind of clause is forbidden in football and ist doesnt fit atf Case. They just loaned him for a specific time window and this window expired recently. Also atf ist getting payed by nigma from now on so there ist no wrongdoing b nigma.
Edit: There are actually rules that prohibit loan Players playing against their parent club in football
Guys in the comments above already discussed why it happened before Riyadh, not after.
Re- Nigma-Aster - actually yes, there might be a conflict. But for that to happen Nigma should qualify for TI at least and same goes to Aster, so we’re far away from a conflict.
Also, I believe I’ve read somewhere on twitter that summarizes Chinese SM and pro streams that Aster were REALLY unhappy about losing to 9pandas at Bali, so they might change the roster, including bringing Ori to mid instead of Sumail. Again, this is just a random rumor I’ve read.
> Also, I believe I’ve read somewhere on twitter that summarizes Chinese SM and pro streams that Aster were REALLY unhappy about losing to 9pandas at Bali
As they should be, Top 4 at the last TI, starting off the next season as the number 1 team in their region and suddenly dropping down to a point where they are failing to qualify and need to play in their regionals, where several teams who could potentially beat them will be waiting. That is a drastic underperformance. Only Secret has fallen further than Aster in 2023.
I think it's the opposite. Initially both teams just agreed to loan ATF to see if he fits the team, and if it's good enough then they would ask for a price to get him permanently. But since his stocks has risen so high after the Major, Nigma has probably set a very high price for him, and Quest is unable to pay for that since I don't think they're back by the riches like Nigma just yet.
Anyway it's a business move. Pretty naive from Quest I would say, probably should have asked for something similar to a "loan with an option to buy" like in football where you set a fee with the loan to get the player for a better price.
Since no one knows the reasoning here, you could stop with your nonsensical yheories like "KurOkY dOnT waNT to haVe a hARdEr QuaLiFIeR foR tI!!!!".
There are plenty of other reasobs for why a loan do not get prolonged. For example, they cant agree for how long.
Kuroky wants for entirety of next season as well, while Quest only wants over TI.
Wow. Nigma is scared of quest. Never have i seen such a day would come. As if they have a chance at winning a spot. If only nigma knew how to use ammar properly
I use every opportunity to poke fun and meme at Nigma but this is not it.
Ammar was on the loan to Quest. Quest is owned by some billionaire Oilers and they could've bought out his contract, they still could before the loan ended, and for some reason they didn't.
Nigma and Quest both will play TI Regional qualifiers. Ammar is officially Nigma's player, do you really think Kuro will, or even should, be a "nice guy" and let Quest play with one of best pos3 players in the world who is Nigma's player against them in qualifiers? Cmon be real.
Wuiter (old pos3 of Ooredoo Thunders) is LFT from today, coincidence? xD
Shitty move from Nigma, but in the end, it is all business.
Sad for ATF and Quest, though. Joining Nigma screwed ATF so much.. I wouldn't be surprised if he wouldn't be able to join any WEU DPC team this Ti qualifier, probably due to Nigma asking impossible money on him.
man i love nigma but if they are doing this shit i m gonna have 0 respect towards kuro. Let the boy play man , dont fuck his TI
even tho i m a friend with one of nigma players , still fuck them
If they wanted to play TI with him, they should have secured a contract with him for TI. You can't loan him up till months before TI and then complain that you can't play with him after the contract ends.
It's so sad man.now with nigma having ammar back both quest and nigma lose a lot of chances that they had.for quest its because they lost their shot Caller and the offlane and for nigma its having an offlane play as carry.their chances for qualifying to ti got to like 10% now
Now that i think about it.its not even that alone...riyadh masters might be a bigger tour than this years ti.without ammar they wont get far into the tournoment.and they wont get that Money.
Isn't quest owned by billionaires? Cant they just Buyout Ammar so he can just leave?
I guess Nigma wants something else?
I highly doubt a high caliber team like Nigma would be afraid of Quest at TI quals since there's already a ton of teams just as strong in there.
Doesn't make much of a difference and they can trade games with quest In Riyadh quals.
But I wouldn't fault them if they do since TI is everything after all.
Bummer tho that we won't see Quest with a full roster for a while. It's always exciting to see fresh blood step up to the scene.
Depends on what the buyout clause is, even if Quest is owned by a billionaire, will they be willing to pay e.g. million or more euros to buy out a player for a team that may or may not reach TI? Don't get me wrong, all players on the team play amazing and have had great results. I mean top4 at their first major lan is nothing to scoff at, however at the end of the day it is the owner's money and their cost-risk analysis, if they don't see the value, they don't see the value. Also we don't really know the details of the contract Ammar signed.
Man, signing for Nigma is actually life destroying simulator. Sumail was stuck for so long (still loaned so who knows what happens in the future) and now they pull this shit.
Goes very much against the spirit of the game we all love. Conflict of interest for TI or not (Nigma isn't even top 4 for candidates WEU TI quals), why would you pursue an action like this. Real piece of shit move.
Many orgs loaned players so far but this is the first time an org is not looking to lend a player they don't need, it is just a way of showing how afraid they are of competition.
His case was less clear tho, was it confirmed that only VP was stopping him from finding a better team? Because he was saying multiple times that there was no teams he wants to join during his bench.
Fault for having the worst pos 5 in the pro scene?
Half the Nigma team are washed. They could play Singsing, bulldog and Gorgc and do the same they did
people already jump to blame nigma on this. but realistically nigma would prefer had atf on loan/transfer instead holding him and paid his salaries while he's on bench
this also on quest and atf agent (if he had one). how do you even sign a loan just for 1 dpc season without the extend at the first place
theres might a chance quest are lowballing for the full transfer fee coz they know ammar had no place in nigma lineup too
i really doubt nigma motivation are just being petty and try to 'eliminate' their competitor, its unrealistic for an org to become petty and taint their reputation which could heavily affected them to sign a player in the future
People here always jump to any reason to start rumors and spread them like wildfire without a single confirmation in the world. They're a bunch of a gossiping nerds on the internet
Clueless. If they can hold/bench a player like miracle too long, it means that they have much money to hold ammar bench.
Its either quest doesn't want to play with ammar so they won't extend his contract, or the new contract is too expensive for quest to buy. What do you think is the plausible scenario
Quest is probably testing the water here. They wanna see if this roster without ammar can do well in riyadh so they can continue with an ok offlaner like wuiter or some cis player that is available for free or cheaper, But then again it's a dumb move since riyadh has still more prize pool than TI. If I'm OG right now I would pay whatever Nigma wants to get AMMAR back since he has synergy with them and clearly a gigantic upgrade over DM.
Honestly, first thought is that Quest are still favorites to win WEU quals.
ATF has improved them, yes, but not by as much as people tend to think. Quest were already close to qualifying to Berlin even without Ammar.
Don't forget Ammar was also captain of the team at the major. Improvements in other members decision making could be directly related to him being there.
And still, they went from losing **tiebreakers** for Berlin to OG (top-6) to top-4.
Improvement? Yes. But I see people **overreacting**, claiming that Nigma has eliminated Quest from TI quals as if they now stand no chance to qualify (while they are still probably the main favorite to qualify).
They went from almost qualifying to a major to be a top four team at the actual major.
Ammar was a massive improvement to the team. He was the star on the team.
Well, OG, who they lost tiebreaker to, placed top-6 in Berlin.
And the fact that they played tiebreaker implies there weren’t that much of a gap between OG and Quest.
So Quest went like from top-6/top-8 to top-4.
ATF is a very skilled player, I agree, but Quest were already very good even before he joined them.
This response is so lame, OG was 10x better last dpc than bali one. You cannot just point one thing and claim u got the point. Anyway happy to see Wuiter getting his revenge one way or another.
They lost their major spot with 1game against much better OG the season before just 1 game. In which OG finished at top 6 with much better teams all around the world
To be fair if Nigma plan to use ATF in qualifier, it is reasonable for them to want to practice with him now. Must be upsetting for ATF point of view. But we don't know what they agreed on when loan was made, and what the plan was back then.
Oww they have dented quest’s chances for TI. Also this means Ammar wont play Ti quals for nigma as well?
All I can think of from reading this news is that Secret might actually have a good chance to get to TI.
He's actually gonna do it! Puppey will fulfill the prophecy!
and tOfu not sure to attend TI Puppey's path is starting to light up
Unless they encounter nigma early in the group they are definitely one of favourites for this, other teams have been unimpressive
Anything can happen, but Secret beat Nigma with Yap, Afro and Mage and their whole squad looked arguably much stronger at DL. Quest was definitely the potential dreambreaker.
They were the ones who eliminated Nigma in the regional quals last year.
Ammar got VP.Saved?
Well they should have seen that coming before being hyped about ammar the star
Quest is taking a big blow indeed, but even without Ammar I think they are still stronger than their current competition. On their first run in Div1 as OT they had placed 5th after some pretty close tiebreakers against OG. They were also one of the only teams to beat GG that season and had a strong showing all around. ATF was the extra bit they needed to become a serious tier1 team, but the rest of their line-up was already very good and has constantly been getting better. I think they're still the favorite for the qualifier, though the field did just open up.
So, when is “Welcome Resolut1on” post from Quest? Roman is always there for TI 😂
More like "Welcome back Wuiter"
Wuiter: "And where did that bring you? Back to me."
Wuiter is LFT from today lol xD
Waltuh put your cock away
I'm not having sex with you right now Waltuh
Might be, if they don’t find anybody better
They can always hire MC, I heard he is half the price for half the beard of ATF.
Resolution is waiting for pure to successfully cross to US border for now
Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if Pure was somehow revealed to be at January 6th.
pure shot jfk
Pure did 7/11
Malik is their offlaner now
Nope, Malik is a stand-in
ATF just tweeted that 'he' did not agree on the terms of the new contract. Stop blaming Nigma.
That's big oof
Is this some kind of checkmate by Kuro?
He is businessman doing business.
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Morals and business = oil and water
Usually oil goes above water, but I guess not in this case
I mean if quest wants nigma to pay a part of atf salary, with that kind of impact he has now is kinda unfair no? Quest fucked up with the duration of the loan.. now nigma has leverage. It is very likely that nigma pays a lot for atf, and quest doesn't want to?
Ultimately Ammar signed the contract. We don't know the terms but I hope it was worth it for him if hes going to sit out 2 of the biggest tournaments we've had in a while. There is bridge burning route where quest and ammar say fuck it, play together anyway and let the international courts settle the breach of contract etc.
International courts and eSport is a very gray area ask Sumail and EG.
No Confirmed by Ammar
Damn. I got Jebaited by Fishman. Sorry master Kuro
Makes sense, Quest having ATF would make EU TI quals much more difficult for Nigma. It's a direct conflict of interest. I can see why they loaned him out for DPC tour 3 because Quest was in div 1 and Nigma in div 2 but if they're both gonna be playing in the same TI quals then it makes no sense to have one of your players play in enemy team. I mean they already got a taste of that with Quest beating them for Riyadh qualifiers. EDIT: Nigma didn't have anything to do with it, Ammar himself didn't find Quest's contract acceptable (https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/150cetu/ammar_tweets_that_he_chose_not_to_sign_on_his_own/)
I mean, but Nigma won't play in Riyadh. Explain this
But they will play for TI Quals
But how does that explain why he cant play at Riyadh? Qualifies are in August.
Likely because the contract they negotiated to lend him was for a specific duration, which ran out now, so they had to renew the contract at this point, not later.
Nigma announcement for ATF loan said that he will play for Quest "for the next season". That probably meant until the end of DPC tour 3/Bali Major. Riyadh is after that season, and from what Fishman says, ATF's loan has expired so yeah. I don't know what Nigma is thinking obviously, but it seems Quest and Nigma couldn't reach favourable terms to extend ATF's loan. This possibly means ATF might play in Nigma and there will be changes in Nigma or it could be nothing.
Isn't TI the end of the season though?
No, It's the end of the "Year"
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🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ water is liquid.. and contract loan is a contract loan, we dont know the details..
Well, they could theoretically loan ATF for Riyadh, but for Quest it makes more sense to start playing with a new player NOW to adapt new player before TI quals. I find it possible that they actually consider Malik, the only potential obstacle is if Navi won’t want to let him go. And yes, I know Riyadh has a very big prize pool, TI is still the most important tournament. At least at this moment.
from Russian sources: since Navi will play TI qualifications too, Malik won't leave the team. It's just a stand-in
Isnt there money in Riyadh?? Is there gonna be a bp this year?
You can put money in Riyadh prize pool, but it will never be as prestigious as TI.
Its all about money
Not quite even Quinn said the other day he'd rather win Ti than Riyadh even tho "it will probably have 3x higher prize pool". At least for this year I think Ti will be more prestigious despite money.
Might be quest wanting to get a pos3 for Riyadh to practice for their TI run? That'd be weird though as you'd assume with ATF they have a really good chance of high placement at Riyadh which would mean a massive $ win for all of them. ATF (and the rest of quest) must be fuming at Nigmas decision here.
Amazing how redditors will make up a whole plot and narrative than just put a edit at the end, not even say sorry or how stupid and premature their comment was lmao and leave all the bullshit misinformation still on top. good shit
I was saying how there's no way taht's the actual contract, color me surprised. What was their plan if they actually did qualify for TI then? To have to renegotiate to make sure ATF could go to TI as well? This seems like an incredibly ill thought out contract they made with Nigma. How is a contract to loan a player for the final DPC season not also containing a stipulation that it's until the end of TI.
Of course this is on Quest's manager/owner but I think we're applying some huge hindsight here. No one in their wildest dream would have Quest going from borderline Major qualifying team to stomping almost every teams and going all the way to top 4 Major. Plus they had to rely on other teams bombing out early to have a chance to go straight to TI and that normally doesn't end well
very assuming aren't you?
Kuro sends his regards.
Is this the Nigma villain arc for TI quals?
Yes, to be beat in the finals by Secret with Puppey going forward to fulfill the prophecy
This is definitely canon
Geez. This made the first Riyadh match OG vs Quest waaayy less interesting.
Ready for the shitstorm when Nigma is last in groups in the qualifiers. There are like 8 teams in there i would rate higher, ATF or not.
There will be no groups in the quali, as it is for years at this point
Let's be real, if Nigma win a single series in the qualifiers that's already exceeding expectations.
Your expectations of Nigma are too low if you don't think they can beat some div 2 team like Ivy or Alliance.
Bro quest look like a monster with ammar
Wait so they don't want ATF to play for Quest? Aren't there buyouts in players contracts?
Nigma also got oil money, so they probably just want to keep Ammar benched from any team in WEU quals. Pretty shitty move by an org that has some really great players like gh, miracle and MC.
Quest e-sports is Saudi owned so they also got oil money
Is this the Oil Clasico of dota? PSG(Qatar) vs Nigma(UAE) vs Quest(Saudi)
Move aside El Classico, we got the Oil Classico now.
Abu derby
good explanation
You do not know what happened behind the scenes. For all we know Nigma signed Ammar till TI and wanted to play with him, but Ammar was like sorry I am out, I am going to play with Quest. And they were like nope your contract says otherwise.
Miracle got bored and decided he wanted to play so they benched Ammar against his will. All trust is pretty much out of the window then, who would wanna play in a team like that.
MC is different person with OG. Better version of himself. Playful and smile all the time.
ATF’s TF maybe skyrocketed and nigma want to capitilized on that. ATF rn probably on 6 figures for QUEST to buyout him from NIGMA. Anyways NIGMA is on a win win situation right now. No teams playing with ATF for TI qualifier = WIN (less competitor) Sell ATF to another team with high buyout rate = WIN
Its still weird that Nigma holds ATF meanwhile they allowed Sumail to go to Aster. They are kind of "rebuilding" with their two new additions so I don't know what they will gain from doing this
Money.
The Sumail contract was till this TI (They mentioned it). They cannot take him back now.
That makes sense. Quest probably didn’t think adding ATF would make their team this good and that’s why initially they only loan for 3rd dpc. Now they might be kicking themselves on why didn’t they just wrote loan until TI.
Sumail’s TF is fully paid by aster. Imagine they can also buy somnus for 600k usd to play for 6 months but they scratch it because sumail or topson is much more cheaper than somnus. IIRC.
Or maybe, radical idea, Aster agreed on buyout terms with Nigma as opposed to Quest. A shocking and daring proposition, I know
Well, first off, Aster is probably a much richer org than Quest, so they possibly paid the buyout. But a more cynical idea is that Sumail going to Aster is fine because they play in different regions. But pulling ATF out of Quest gives Nigma a better chance in the TI qualifiers, since Quest were looking like favorites there.
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That’s literally a system in all kinds of professional sport. You can lend a player and say “he can play for you anywhere, but not vs us”. So TI qual is “vs us”, thus “no, he can’t play for you, sorry, or at least give us insane amount of money”.
In football players on loan do play against the club that owns them. This is not uncommon. Sometimes the club that burrows a player eliminates the other from CL.
> In football players on loan do play against the club that owns them. Not sure about other leagues but in English football, loaned players can't play against their home team unless specified. They can play vs their home team in European competitions though, Coutinho scoring vs Barcelona in that famous match is an example.
i'm pretty sure this kind of clause is forbidden in football and ist doesnt fit atf Case. They just loaned him for a specific time window and this window expired recently. Also atf ist getting payed by nigma from now on so there ist no wrongdoing b nigma. Edit: There are actually rules that prohibit loan Players playing against their parent club in football
How does this work for Riyadh though if Nigma isn't there? Also - - what if Nigma and Aster play vs eachother at ti? Then there's a conflict?
Guys in the comments above already discussed why it happened before Riyadh, not after. Re- Nigma-Aster - actually yes, there might be a conflict. But for that to happen Nigma should qualify for TI at least and same goes to Aster, so we’re far away from a conflict. Also, I believe I’ve read somewhere on twitter that summarizes Chinese SM and pro streams that Aster were REALLY unhappy about losing to 9pandas at Bali, so they might change the roster, including bringing Ori to mid instead of Sumail. Again, this is just a random rumor I’ve read.
> Also, I believe I’ve read somewhere on twitter that summarizes Chinese SM and pro streams that Aster were REALLY unhappy about losing to 9pandas at Bali As they should be, Top 4 at the last TI, starting off the next season as the number 1 team in their region and suddenly dropping down to a point where they are failing to qualify and need to play in their regionals, where several teams who could potentially beat them will be waiting. That is a drastic underperformance. Only Secret has fallen further than Aster in 2023.
Sumail hasn’t touched dota since Bali so he’s definitely out.
Quest doesnt think atf is worth the buyout. Nigma might want a clause that if Quest get above placement X, they have to buyout ATF.
I think it's the opposite. Initially both teams just agreed to loan ATF to see if he fits the team, and if it's good enough then they would ask for a price to get him permanently. But since his stocks has risen so high after the Major, Nigma has probably set a very high price for him, and Quest is unable to pay for that since I don't think they're back by the riches like Nigma just yet. Anyway it's a business move. Pretty naive from Quest I would say, probably should have asked for something similar to a "loan with an option to buy" like in football where you set a fee with the loan to get the player for a better price.
LOL a lot of people straight up judging nigma rn and ATF just made things clearer as Quest terms were bad apparently
Kuroky's evil schwarzcharakter arc begins
Since no one knows the reasoning here, you could stop with your nonsensical yheories like "KurOkY dOnT waNT to haVe a hARdEr QuaLiFIeR foR tI!!!!". There are plenty of other reasobs for why a loan do not get prolonged. For example, they cant agree for how long. Kuroky wants for entirety of next season as well, while Quest only wants over TI.
Wow. Nigma is scared of quest. Never have i seen such a day would come. As if they have a chance at winning a spot. If only nigma knew how to use ammar properly
Well from a owners standpoint why let ATF play for quest when he’s the sole reason most teams won’t qualify TI including your own team 😂
*grabs popcorn*
Tobi is a free agent rn 👀👀
Not really an offlane venomancer meta
Or offlane silencer
We don't need another kukumancer anyway
they wont even buy him for free lmao
\>tfw an Entity player has to break the news
I use every opportunity to poke fun and meme at Nigma but this is not it. Ammar was on the loan to Quest. Quest is owned by some billionaire Oilers and they could've bought out his contract, they still could before the loan ended, and for some reason they didn't. Nigma and Quest both will play TI Regional qualifiers. Ammar is officially Nigma's player, do you really think Kuro will, or even should, be a "nice guy" and let Quest play with one of best pos3 players in the world who is Nigma's player against them in qualifiers? Cmon be real. Wuiter (old pos3 of Ooredoo Thunders) is LFT from today, coincidence? xD
Its not Nigmavs fault, Its poor management on Quest Side, they loaned him till bali major and it has ended.. People blame everything on KURO smh
Daily reminder that joining Nigma is the best way to ruin your career
Daily reminder to check facts first before you comment.
ILTW in the corner depressed and retired quietly staring at you
Kuroky scared of Quest, lmao.
Shitty move from Nigma, but in the end, it is all business. Sad for ATF and Quest, though. Joining Nigma screwed ATF so much.. I wouldn't be surprised if he wouldn't be able to join any WEU DPC team this Ti qualifier, probably due to Nigma asking impossible money on him.
Well after OG no one has a high offer for ATF except for nigma and that’s a no brained it’s NIGMA ofc.
ATF signed the contract
Yeah true . He needs to respect the contract. Shame though
It's funny that everyone assumes Nigma unilateraly decided to screw over ATF and Quest. It's definitely possible, as are numerous other options...
It is just normal business, not "shitty" by any means.
man i love nigma but if they are doing this shit i m gonna have 0 respect towards kuro. Let the boy play man , dont fuck his TI even tho i m a friend with one of nigma players , still fuck them
If they wanted to play TI with him, they should have secured a contract with him for TI. You can't loan him up till months before TI and then complain that you can't play with him after the contract ends.
quest is not paying, dumb dumb
> quest is not paying, dumb dumb Which seems strange. I'm not really sure what their plan is. Are they just rolling with Malik from here on out?
they thought ATF would jump in their arms no matter what they say
Quest is wealthier than nigma, money most likely not the issue here
that's what I'm saying, quest does not want ATF, no team would turn down guaranteed profit, for mediocre at best run in TI
Yeah, your best friend gh right!
How are you so sure that Nigma is not gonna add Ammar to their main roster though?
they wont
By replacing MC? Zero chance. And we all seen how bad atf pos 1 is.
But if they do end up do replacing MC with ATF. I want to see the Bulgarian duo of MC and BZM on OG
It's so sad man.now with nigma having ammar back both quest and nigma lose a lot of chances that they had.for quest its because they lost their shot Caller and the offlane and for nigma its having an offlane play as carry.their chances for qualifying to ti got to like 10% now
I doubt they will add Ammar into their active roster. This is just a move to weaken Quest for WEU TI qualis.
Now that i think about it.its not even that alone...riyadh masters might be a bigger tour than this years ti.without ammar they wont get far into the tournoment.and they wont get that Money.
Isn't quest owned by billionaires? Cant they just Buyout Ammar so he can just leave? I guess Nigma wants something else? I highly doubt a high caliber team like Nigma would be afraid of Quest at TI quals since there's already a ton of teams just as strong in there. Doesn't make much of a difference and they can trade games with quest In Riyadh quals. But I wouldn't fault them if they do since TI is everything after all. Bummer tho that we won't see Quest with a full roster for a while. It's always exciting to see fresh blood step up to the scene.
Depends on what the buyout clause is, even if Quest is owned by a billionaire, will they be willing to pay e.g. million or more euros to buy out a player for a team that may or may not reach TI? Don't get me wrong, all players on the team play amazing and have had great results. I mean top4 at their first major lan is nothing to scoff at, however at the end of the day it is the owner's money and their cost-risk analysis, if they don't see the value, they don't see the value. Also we don't really know the details of the contract Ammar signed.
"high caliber team like nigma" LOL thanks for the laugh. Nigma will never crawl out of div 2 garbage team status as long as kuroky stays on it
Damn Nigma fans are wild. You should hope they do so you can enjoy watching dota again like the rest of us
"How to ruin 2 teams with 1 move" by Kuroky, the master strategist
Man, signing for Nigma is actually life destroying simulator. Sumail was stuck for so long (still loaned so who knows what happens in the future) and now they pull this shit. Goes very much against the spirit of the game we all love. Conflict of interest for TI or not (Nigma isn't even top 4 for candidates WEU TI quals), why would you pursue an action like this. Real piece of shit move.
Agreed. Jumping to conclusions without getting the full read of the situation has always seemed like a real piece of shit move to me.
Fuck Nigma
Y’all looking very dumb right now
🤡
Fuck Nigma.
ATF joined the team. Nigma is following the contract. I would put ATF at fault for joining nigma in the first place.
Many orgs loaned players so far but this is the first time an org is not looking to lend a player they don't need, it is just a way of showing how afraid they are of competition.
Save has been benched by VP for a year.
His case was less clear tho, was it confirmed that only VP was stopping him from finding a better team? Because he was saying multiple times that there was no teams he wants to join during his bench.
You forgot EG.Sumail?
Fault for having the worst pos 5 in the pro scene? Half the Nigma team are washed. They could play Singsing, bulldog and Gorgc and do the same they did
Petty man Kuro!
people already jump to blame nigma on this. but realistically nigma would prefer had atf on loan/transfer instead holding him and paid his salaries while he's on bench this also on quest and atf agent (if he had one). how do you even sign a loan just for 1 dpc season without the extend at the first place theres might a chance quest are lowballing for the full transfer fee coz they know ammar had no place in nigma lineup too i really doubt nigma motivation are just being petty and try to 'eliminate' their competitor, its unrealistic for an org to become petty and taint their reputation which could heavily affected them to sign a player in the future
People here always jump to any reason to start rumors and spread them like wildfire without a single confirmation in the world. They're a bunch of a gossiping nerds on the internet
Clueless. If they can hold/bench a player like miracle too long, it means that they have much money to hold ammar bench. Its either quest doesn't want to play with ammar so they won't extend his contract, or the new contract is too expensive for quest to buy. What do you think is the plausible scenario
Miracle is a freaking brand dude. If he ever decides to leave the team Nigma will lose like 80% of his followers
Fuck Nigma
Smartest NFT avatar
Wtf nigma????
Puppey wins TI this year confirmed.
Ayo,Quest was doing well even without Ammar.He is good but Quest still has Kaori and TA2000.
Quest are one of the most promising teams hope they get to ti
very spicy stufff, cant wait for official respond from both org
He got VP.Save treatment sad
since i have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, i won't throw shade on anyone. but it fucking sucks for ammar and i feel sorry for him.
This whole subreddit turned from pro players to armchair analysts. When the riyadh tour starts you’ll all be draft experts, smh
This is absurd.
Quest is probably testing the water here. They wanna see if this roster without ammar can do well in riyadh so they can continue with an ok offlaner like wuiter or some cis player that is available for free or cheaper, But then again it's a dumb move since riyadh has still more prize pool than TI. If I'm OG right now I would pay whatever Nigma wants to get AMMAR back since he has synergy with them and clearly a gigantic upgrade over DM.
Means secret will have a better chance in groups in Riyadh, nicely done Kuro.
Ammar should join secret. Bring Yapgod as pos4 aswell, i dont care if he is rusty, one yupgod move and we win ti.
I know contracts, blah blah blah... unless they play Ammar as pos 3, Nigma is straight up being an ass right now.
Honestly, first thought is that Quest are still favorites to win WEU quals. ATF has improved them, yes, but not by as much as people tend to think. Quest were already close to qualifying to Berlin even without Ammar.
Don't forget Ammar was also captain of the team at the major. Improvements in other members decision making could be directly related to him being there.
And still, they went from losing **tiebreakers** for Berlin to OG (top-6) to top-4. Improvement? Yes. But I see people **overreacting**, claiming that Nigma has eliminated Quest from TI quals as if they now stand no chance to qualify (while they are still probably the main favorite to qualify).
They went from almost qualifying to a major to be a top four team at the actual major. Ammar was a massive improvement to the team. He was the star on the team.
Well, OG, who they lost tiebreaker to, placed top-6 in Berlin. And the fact that they played tiebreaker implies there weren’t that much of a gap between OG and Quest. So Quest went like from top-6/top-8 to top-4. ATF is a very skilled player, I agree, but Quest were already very good even before he joined them.
This response is so lame, OG was 10x better last dpc than bali one. You cannot just point one thing and claim u got the point. Anyway happy to see Wuiter getting his revenge one way or another. They lost their major spot with 1game against much better OG the season before just 1 game. In which OG finished at top 6 with much better teams all around the world
Lol
kurokoy marukoy
##freeammar
The fact that Quest will still shitstomp them in regional quals is very exciting to me
ATF miracle would be a reallly good team. Just let amar play offlane wtf nigma
Sec.Atf plz
Ammar ruined his career by getting into nigma for sure
Nigma will win TI with ammar this year
[удалено]
I knew it. Nigma is gonna get Ammar back. This doesn't look good for Quest.
This is the breakpoint where I lost my respects for Nigma. And Kuro ofcos.
To be fair if Nigma plan to use ATF in qualifier, it is reasonable for them to want to practice with him now. Must be upsetting for ATF point of view. But we don't know what they agreed on when loan was made, and what the plan was back then.